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| 02:30 | walterbender | a-ritwik, hi |
| 02:30 | a-ritwik | Hi |
| 02:31 | walterbender | a-ritwik, shall we get started? |
| 02:31 | a-ritwik | Yeah |
| 02:31 | pikurasa <pikurasa!~devin209.6.193.250> has joined #sugar-meeting |
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| 02:31 | pikurasa | hi |
| 02:31 | a-ritwik | pikurasa, Hi |
| 02:31 | walterbender | have you a decent idea yet how the Rhythm Ruler widget works? |
| 02:31 | it is not the easiest | |
| 02:31 | pikurasa | hi a-ritwik |
| 02:32 | walterbender | nor the most complicated |
| 02:32 | #start-meeting | |
| 02:32 | meeting | Meeting started Wed May 16 02:32:20 2018 UTC. The chair is walterbender. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 02:32 | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting | |
| 02:32 | walterbender | I suppose we should be logging :) |
| 02:32 | pikurasa | sure |
| 02:33 | #agreed | |
| 02:33 | a-ritwik | Yeah, I think I have decent idea. |
| 02:33 | walterbender | The tapping code is a bit of a kludge |
| 02:34 | but it sort of kind of works | |
| 02:34 | enough to get an idea | |
| 02:35 | a-ritwik, is that the thing you are planning to work on first? | |
| 02:35 | a-ritwik | I am currently working on #754 and #756 |
| 02:37 | pikurasa | a-ritwik: any questions? |
| 02:40 | walterbender | hello? |
| 02:40 | a-ritwik | In #756 we have to find highest factor and then highlight so the user gets idea of time, am I correct? |
| 02:42 | eg. in 1/2, 1/4 and 1/8 we would choose 1/8 | |
| 02:42 | walterbender | pikurasa, please refresh my memory... this ticket is in regard to the progress bar when tapping, correct? |
| 02:43 | pikurasa | yes, 1/8, but then show subdivision one factor more than 1/8, so 1/16 |
| 02:44 | walterbender: it is related to it, but it would be useful with or without tapping | |
| 02:45 | walterbender | maybe we want a separate row for this? |
| 02:45 | pikurasa | walterbender: that would be fine |
| 02:45 | a-ritwik | +1 |
| 02:46 | walterbender | I understand where the LCD would come from if playing back a rhythm after it is defined |
| 02:46 | but how do we know before it is defined, e.g., when tapping? | |
| 02:46 | pikurasa | walterbender: probably from meter |
| 02:47 | would be best | |
| 02:47 | it is not so black and white however | |
| 02:47 | to predict what a user might want, but that would probably work for most cases | |
| 02:48 | walterbender | since the default is 4:4, then we'd use 1/8 notes? |
| 02:48 | pikurasa | Yes, I think that should work. |
| 02:48 | And 8/8 would be 1/16 notes | |
| 02:48 | riyalohia <riyalohia!6acfe255gateway/web/freenode/ip.106.207.226.85> has joined #sugar-meeting |
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| 02:49 | pikurasa | It is not perfect, but is better than nothing |
| 02:49 | walterbender | So maybe a-ritwik should tackle #754 first? |
| 02:50 | pikurasa | that would make sense to me |
| 02:50 | walterbender | And we could include a meter block in the macro by default. |
| 02:50 | pikurasa | a-ritwik: does that sound good to you? |
| 02:50 | a-ritwik | fine |
| 02:50 | seems good | |
| 02:50 | walterbender | OK. |
| 02:51 | anything else we need to cover at the moment? | |
| 02:51 | pikurasa | a-ritwik: Please update via email on a regular basis |
| 02:51 | a-ritwik | okay, I will mail 2-3 times a week. |
| 02:51 | walterbender | pikurasa, FYI, I've started to dig into #1210 |
| 02:52 | We must have created a regression in the lilypond code. | |
| 02:52 | I'll try to dig into it in the morning. | |
| 02:53 | pikurasa | walterbender: I could not tell if it was just lilypond or something else |
| 02:53 | walterbender | Might be more than one issue |
| 02:53 | a-ritwik | walterbender, what are zebra stripes in rhythm ruler? |
| 02:54 | pikurasa | the performance was very badly compromised when I was playing it back, so it hard to tell |
| 02:54 | walterbender | a-ritwik, that is just a way to ensure you can tell one cell from the next... every other cell is a different color |
| 02:54 | pikurasa, I will report back in the AM | |
| 02:54 | pikurasa | which was funny, because I played the bach retrograde plot example and thought "wow, it is running so fast!" |
| 02:55 | squirrelly | |
| 02:55 | a-ritwik | thanks for explaining. |
| 02:55 | walterbender | pikurasa, had you played other things too or was it a fresh session? |
| 02:55 | pikurasa | walterbender: feel free to work on it anytime. Not in any hurry |
| 02:55 | walterbender | worrying about synth garbage collection |
| 02:56 | pikurasa | walterbender: I closed and reopened and it still was slow, but maybe some cache is left over between sessions...??? |
| 02:56 | walterbender | a-ritwik, we update the zebra stripes whenever we divide (or merge) cells |
| 02:57 | pikurasa, I'll check it when I am awake :) | |
| 02:57 | anything else a-ritwik ??? | |
| 02:57 | riyalohia, I see you are here | |
| 02:57 | a-ritwik | No |
| 02:57 | riyalohia | walterbender , pikurasa : hii!! |
| 02:58 | pikurasa | hi riyalohia!!! |
| 02:58 | walterbender | Maybe we can switch gears to temperament ??? |
| 02:58 | pikurasa | Thanks a-ritwik! |
| 02:58 | riyalohia | walterbender , yes :) |
| 02:58 | pikurasa | walterbender: sounds good to me |
| 02:58 | walterbender | a-ritwik, don't be shy with questions |
| 02:58 | pikurasa | (everything sounds like a pun lately :p) |
| 02:58 | walterbender | riyalohia, can you walk me through your PR? |
| 02:59 | I am a bit lost in the musicblocks.js changes | |
| 02:59 | riyalohia | walterbender, sure! |
| 02:59 | pikurasa | riyalohia: for my sake, what is your reference for just intonation? |
| 03:00 | walterbender | Let's discuss the table itself first |
| 03:00 | pikurasa | (whenever you get a chance) |
| 03:00 | a-ritwik has quit IRC | |
| 03:00 | riyalohia | 1.) I have created the look up table having equal, Just Intonation and Meantone systems. |
| 03:01 | walterbender | I understand the ratios section, I think |
| 03:01 | riyalohia | 2.) I have not yet passed the ratios to the synth. |
| 03:01 | walterbender | but I don't quite understand why you moved all of the pitch arrays into the table |
| 03:02 | where do those arrays differ from one tuning system to the next? | |
| 03:02 | riyalohia | As in one of our mails, pikurasa explained that semitones doesnt change, so I have not changed the calculations for semitones and half steps. |
| 03:03 | pikurasa | riyalohia: what do you mean by the semitones do not change? |
| 03:04 | riyalohia | walterbender, regarding pitch arrays, it will be C, C#, Db, D ... for 21 note system but for equal it would be C, C#, D ...thats y I moved all of the pitch arrays into the table. |
| 03:05 | walterbender | riyalohia, I get that, but I guess I dpn |
| 03:06 | pikurasa | dpn? |
| 03:06 | riyalohia | pikurasa, the semitones between C and D are 2 in equal temperament and for 21 note system also, the semitones between C and D are 2. (semitones dont change) |
| 03:06 | walterbender | but you would still go from C to C# to D in a half-step prgression |
| 03:06 | it is the accidentals that would change | |
| 03:06 | unless I am misunderstanding something | |
| 03:07 | In other words, C# does not necessarily === Db | |
| 03:07 | riyalohia | walterbender, yes! ..I have taken care of that. |
| 03:07 | pikurasa | walterbender: is correct |
| 03:07 | walterbender | but if I was playing a scale, I wouldn't play C# followed by Db |
| 03:07 | pikurasa | and that is correct as well |
| 03:08 | walterbender | riyalohia, I guess I need to dig a bit deeper into how you set things up, |
| 03:08 | Some comments in the code would help :) | |
| 03:08 | pikurasa | riyalohia: the error I see with your statement above is: |
| 03:09 | riyalohia | walterbender, I'll add the comments. :) |
| 03:09 | pikurasa | Instead of thinking just in half steps, you need to think in all the interval possibilities |
| 03:09 | walterbender | pikurasa, I think that is what the ratios do |
| 03:10 | pikurasa | so, yes two semitones, but really C --> D is a major second |
| 03:10 | The ratios, as far as I could tell, seemed correct | |
| 03:11 | There were some missing possibilities, but perhaps corner cases | |
| 03:11 | is unsure where we "draw the line" | |
| 03:11 | some missing augmented/diminished for 6ths if I remember correctly | |
| 03:11 | ...but not really worried about it now | |
| 03:12 | riyalohia | pikurasa: A second major will always have 2 semitones (halfsteps) whether we are in 21 note system or in 12 note system? |
| 03:12 | pikurasa | yes, but the distance of the semitones themselves could be different |
| 03:12 | walterbender | riyalohia, I think we are confusing our nomenclature |
| 03:12 | pikurasa | they may not be equal |
| 03:13 | riyalohia | pikurasa: when are they not equal ? |
| 03:13 | pikurasa | so C --> C# may not equal C# --> D may not equal C --> Db may not equal Db --> D and so forth |
| 03:14 | riyalohia: please send the just intonation reference that you used | |
| 03:14 | riyalohia | pikurasa: just intonation ratios reference ? |
| 03:14 | walterbender | riyalohia, I think we can make everything a bit less complicated (at least for 21 and 12) |
| 03:15 | riyalohia | walterbender, how ? |
| 03:15 | walterbender | riyalohia, let's tease things apart for a moment |
| 03:16 | If we generate, using the ratios, 21 notes that we will pass to the synth, that will handle the tuning | |
| 03:16 | then we need to worry separately about how we navigate the mode | |
| 03:17 | if we are on C and go up a half step, we should get to C# | |
| 03:17 | if we are on D and go down a half-step, we should be on Db | |
| 03:17 | (when the half step is defined using an accidental) | |
| 03:18 | but when it is defined by the mode, we may want to go C to Db or D to C# | |
| 03:18 | Does that make sense, pikurasa ? | |
| 03:19 | pikurasa | walterbender: yes |
| 03:19 | riyalohia | walterbender, if we are on C# and want to go a half-step up, we should get D ? |
| 03:19 | is this correct ? | |
| 03:20 | walterbender | riyalohia, yes... |
| 03:20 | pikurasa | by default, yes |
| 03:20 | riyalohia | okay! |
| 03:20 | pikurasa | unless the key/mode calls for something else |
| 03:20 | walterbender | unless the way we define the half-step is by using double sharp |
| 03:20 | in which case, we'd want C## | |
| 03:21 | which in equal temperament would be the same as D | |
| 03:21 | but in other tuning systems, maybe not | |
| 03:21 | pikurasa | riyalohia: As for different semi-tones, this article discusses them in detail: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitone |
| 03:22 | walterbender | riyalohia, in any case, I think you can simplify your table |
| 03:22 | riyalohia | walterbender, what changes do I have to make ? |
| 03:22 | pikurasa | riyalohia: by the way, this book is great: https://books.google.com/books[…]onepage&q&f=false |
| 03:22 | and easy to read | |
| 03:23 | walterbender | riyalohia, I think you need the ratios, so you can calculate the correct note to send to the synth |
| 03:24 | but maybe the other changes are not necessary? | |
| 03:24 | except to make sure that accidentals don't get confused with semi-tones. | |
| 03:25 | (even though in equal-temp. they are the same) | |
| 03:25 | pikurasa | riyalohia: questions? |
| 03:26 | I know it is a bit challenging. It took me quite a while to wrap my brain around it -- and I am doing music all the time! | |
| 03:26 | riyalohia | Do I just need the ratios in my lookup table ? |
| 03:26 | pikurasa | It does not help that the topic is avoided in music classes. |
| 03:27 | riyalohia | ( I am really sorry but I am very confused ) |
| 03:27 | walterbender | riyalohia, I'll work on another diagram for you tomorrow to try to explain it. |
| 03:28 | riyalohia | walterbender, what changes do I need to make for now ? |
| 03:28 | walterbender | But basically, we use the table (ratios) to tweak the hertz associated with a note |
| 03:29 | and that in turn impacts the ratio between notes (interval) | |
| 03:29 | but we still walk though the scales the same way. | |
| 03:29 | just the notes we play have been tuned differently | |
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| 03:30 | walterbender | so the code mostly already handles the walking through scales part |
| 03:30 | but not the tweaking for the hertz | |
| 03:30 | so the table needs to be placed between Music Blocks and the calls to the synth. | |
| 03:31 | riyalohia, it will get more confused when we introduce additional notes beyond our 12 (21) | |
| 03:31 | but we can deal with that later | |
| 03:32 | pikurasa | riyalohia: do you understand walter's basic advice? |
| 03:32 | riyalohia | okay! so I will remove the pitches array in the table. |
| 03:32 | walterbender | riyalohia, yes... wind back those changes |
| 03:33 | riyalohia | pikurasa, which advice ? |
| 03:33 | walterbender | and when the temperament is selected, populate a table based on the ratios to define the notes that will be played by the synth. |
| 03:33 | pikurasa | riyalohia: (this advice) |
| 03:33 | walterbender | the table for equal temperament can just be identity, since the synth uses equal temperament by default |
| 03:34 | but with meantone, the A is not necessarily 440 any more... | |
| 03:36 | riyalohia | walterbender, so I dont need to put ratios for equal temperament which is 2^(x/12) ? |
| 03:36 | pikurasa | anything else? |
| 03:36 | walterbender | riyalohia, it is good to have it there for completeness |
| 03:36 | riyalohia | walterbender, got it! |
| 03:36 | walterbender | it makes things clear as to what is happening |
| 03:37 | but in your calculations for the synth, it is already done by default | |
| 03:37 | riyalohia | I 'll change the table and revert back the calculations I changed. |
| 03:37 | walterbender | OK |
| 03:37 | let me know when you have something for me to look at | |
| 03:38 | riyalohia | walterbender , okay! |
| 03:38 | walterbender | anything else for tonight? |
| 03:38 | riyalohia | walterbender, pikurasa, thank you so much for the help :) |
| 03:39 | walterbender | that is what we are here for... |
| 03:39 | pikurasa | riyalohia: no problem. Keep up the good pace!! |
| 03:39 | walterbender | and your questions help me clarify things in my mind |
| 03:39 | pikurasa | It's nice to have work to review! |
| 03:39 | is really excited about this | |
| 03:40 | walterbender | I need to call it a night soon |
| 03:40 | riyalohia | pikurasa: I am also really excited about this :) |
| 03:40 | pikurasa | families always ask for tips to learn how to tune by ear, and this is definitely going to be in the toolbox for teaching that concept!!! |
| 03:40 | walterbender | riyalohia, please send email if you get stuck before I am back on line in the morning |
| 03:40 | riyalohia | walterbender, okay :) |
| 03:41 | pikurasa | feel free to cc me onto correspondences, too |
| 03:41 | riyalohia | pikurasa, I will :) |
| 03:41 | pikurasa | okay, g'night |
| 03:41 | bye riyalohia walterbender | |
| 03:41 | pikurasa has quit IRC | |
| 03:42 | riyalohia | pikurasa, walterbender, bye! |
| 03:42 | walterbender | good night |
| 03:42 | #end-meeting | |
| 03:42 | meeting | Meeting ended Wed May 16 03:42:40 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4) |
| 03:42 | Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-16T02:32:20.html | |
| 03:42 | Log: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]18-05-16T02:32:20 | |
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