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#sugar-meeting, 2018-05-16

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Time Nick Message
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02:30 walterbender a-ritwik, hi
02:30 a-ritwik Hi
02:31 walterbender a-ritwik, shall we get started?
02:31 a-ritwik Yeah
02:31 pikurasa <pikurasa!~devin@> has joined #sugar-meeting
02:31 pikurasa hi
02:31 a-ritwik pikurasa, Hi
02:31 walterbender have you a decent idea yet how the Rhythm Ruler widget works?
02:31 it is not the easiest
02:31 pikurasa hi a-ritwik
02:32 walterbender nor the most complicated
02:32 #start-meeting
02:32 meeting Meeting started Wed May 16 02:32:20 2018 UTC. The chair is walterbender. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
02:32 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
02:32 walterbender I suppose we should be logging :)
02:32 pikurasa sure
02:33 #agreed
02:33 a-ritwik Yeah, I think I have decent idea.
02:33 walterbender The tapping code is a bit of a kludge
02:34 but it sort of kind of works
02:34 enough to get an idea
02:35 a-ritwik, is that the thing you are planning to work on first?
02:35 a-ritwik I am currently working on #754 and #756
02:37 pikurasa a-ritwik: any questions?
02:40 walterbender hello?
02:40 a-ritwik In #756 we have to find highest factor and then highlight so the user gets idea of time, am I correct?
02:42 eg. in 1/2, 1/4 and 1/8 we would choose 1/8
02:42 walterbender pikurasa, please refresh my memory... this ticket is in regard to the progress bar when tapping, correct?
02:43 pikurasa yes, 1/8, but then show subdivision one factor more than 1/8, so 1/16
02:44 walterbender: it is related to it, but it would be useful with or without tapping
02:45 walterbender maybe we want a separate row for this?
02:45 pikurasa walterbender: that would be fine
02:45 a-ritwik +1
02:46 walterbender I understand where the LCD would come from if playing back a rhythm after it is defined
02:46 but how do we know before it is defined, e.g., when tapping?
02:46 pikurasa walterbender: probably from meter
02:47 would be best
02:47 it is not so black and white however
02:47 to predict what a user might want, but that would probably work for most cases
02:48 walterbender since the default is 4:4, then we'd use 1/8 notes?
02:48 pikurasa Yes, I think that should work.
02:48 And 8/8 would be 1/16 notes
02:48 riyalohia <riyalohia!6acfe255@gateway/web/freenode/ip.> has joined #sugar-meeting
02:49 pikurasa It is not perfect, but is better than nothing
02:49 walterbender So maybe a-ritwik should tackle #754 first?
02:50 pikurasa that would make sense to me
02:50 walterbender And we could include a meter block in the macro by default.
02:50 pikurasa a-ritwik: does that sound good to you?
02:50 a-ritwik fine
02:50 seems good
02:50 walterbender OK.
02:51 anything else we need to cover at the moment?
02:51 pikurasa a-ritwik: Please update via email on a regular basis
02:51 a-ritwik okay, I will mail 2-3 times a week.
02:51 walterbender pikurasa, FYI, I've started to dig into #1210
02:52 We must have created a regression in the lilypond code.
02:52 I'll try to dig into it in the morning.
02:53 pikurasa walterbender: I could not tell if it was just lilypond or something else
02:53 walterbender Might be more than one issue
02:53 a-ritwik walterbender, what are zebra stripes in rhythm ruler?
02:54 pikurasa the performance was very badly compromised when I was playing it back, so it hard to tell
02:54 walterbender a-ritwik, that is just a way to ensure you can tell one cell from the next... every other cell is a different color
02:54 pikurasa, I will report back in the AM
02:54 pikurasa which was funny, because I played the bach retrograde plot example and thought "wow, it is running so fast!"
02:55 squirrelly
02:55 a-ritwik thanks for explaining.
02:55 walterbender pikurasa, had you played other things too or was it a fresh session?
02:55 pikurasa walterbender: feel free to work on it anytime. Not in any hurry
02:55 walterbender worrying about synth garbage collection
02:56 pikurasa walterbender: I closed and reopened and it still was slow, but maybe some cache is left over between sessions...???
02:56 walterbender a-ritwik, we update the zebra stripes whenever we divide (or merge) cells
02:57 pikurasa, I'll check it when I am awake :)
02:57 anything else a-ritwik ???
02:57 riyalohia, I see you are here
02:57 a-ritwik No
02:57 riyalohia walterbender , pikurasa : hii!!
02:58 pikurasa hi riyalohia!!!
02:58 walterbender Maybe we can switch gears to temperament ???
02:58 pikurasa Thanks a-ritwik!
02:58 riyalohia walterbender , yes :)
02:58 pikurasa walterbender: sounds good to me
02:58 walterbender a-ritwik, don't be shy with questions
02:58 pikurasa (everything sounds like a pun lately :p)
02:58 walterbender riyalohia, can you walk me through your PR?
02:59 I am a bit lost in the musicblocks.js changes
02:59 riyalohia walterbender, sure!
02:59 pikurasa riyalohia: for my sake, what is your reference for just intonation?
03:00 walterbender Let's discuss the table itself first
03:00 pikurasa (whenever you get a chance)
03:00 a-ritwik has quit IRC
03:00 riyalohia 1.) I have created the look up table having equal, Just Intonation and Meantone systems.
03:01 walterbender I understand the ratios section, I think
03:01 riyalohia 2.) I have not yet passed the ratios to the synth.
03:01 walterbender but I don't quite understand why you moved all of the pitch arrays into the table
03:02 where do those arrays differ from one tuning system to the next?
03:02 riyalohia As in one of our mails, pikurasa explained that semitones doesnt change, so I have not changed the calculations for semitones and half steps.
03:03 pikurasa riyalohia: what do you mean by the semitones do not change?
03:04 riyalohia walterbender, regarding pitch arrays, it will be C, C#, Db, D ... for 21 note system but for equal it would be C, C#, D ...thats y I moved all of the pitch arrays into the table.
03:05 walterbender riyalohia, I get that, but I guess I dpn
03:06 pikurasa dpn?
03:06 riyalohia pikurasa, the semitones between C and D are 2 in equal temperament and for 21 note system also, the semitones between C and D are 2. (semitones dont change)
03:06 walterbender but you would still go from C to C# to D in a half-step prgression
03:06 it is the accidentals that would change
03:06 unless I am misunderstanding something
03:07 In other words, C# does not necessarily === Db
03:07 riyalohia walterbender, yes! ..I have taken care of that.
03:07 pikurasa walterbender: is correct
03:07 walterbender but if I was playing a scale, I wouldn't play C# followed by Db
03:07 pikurasa and that is correct as well
03:08 walterbender riyalohia, I guess I need to dig a bit deeper into how you set things up,
03:08 Some comments in the code would help :)
03:08 pikurasa riyalohia: the error I see with your statement above is:
03:09 riyalohia walterbender, I'll add the comments. :)
03:09 pikurasa Instead of thinking just in half steps, you need to think in all the interval possibilities
03:09 walterbender pikurasa, I think that is what the ratios do
03:10 pikurasa so, yes two semitones, but really C --> D is a major second
03:10 The ratios, as far as I could tell, seemed correct
03:11 There were some missing possibilities, but perhaps corner cases
03:11 is unsure where we "draw the line"
03:11 some missing augmented/diminished for 6ths if I remember correctly
03:11 ...but not really worried about it now
03:12 riyalohia pikurasa: A second major will always have 2 semitones (halfsteps) whether we are in 21 note system or in 12 note system?
03:12 pikurasa yes, but the distance of the semitones themselves could be different
03:12 walterbender riyalohia, I think we are confusing our nomenclature
03:12 pikurasa they may not be equal
03:13 riyalohia pikurasa: when are they not equal ?
03:13 pikurasa so C --> C# may not equal C# --> D may not equal C --> Db may not equal Db --> D and so forth
03:14 riyalohia: please send the just intonation reference that you used
03:14 riyalohia pikurasa: just intonation ratios reference ?
03:14 walterbender riyalohia, I think we can make everything a bit less complicated (at least for 21 and 12)
03:15 riyalohia walterbender, how ?
03:15 walterbender riyalohia, let's tease things apart for a moment
03:16 If we generate, using the ratios, 21 notes that we will pass to the synth, that will handle the tuning
03:16 then we need to worry separately about how we navigate the mode
03:17 if we are on C and go up a half step, we should get to C#
03:17 if we are on D and go down a half-step, we should be on Db
03:17 (when the half step is defined using an accidental)
03:18 but when it is defined by the mode, we may want to go C to Db or D to C#
03:18 Does that make sense, pikurasa ?
03:19 pikurasa walterbender: yes
03:19 riyalohia walterbender, if we are on C# and want to go a half-step up, we should get D ?
03:19 is this correct ?
03:20 walterbender riyalohia, yes...
03:20 pikurasa by default, yes
03:20 riyalohia okay!
03:20 pikurasa unless the key/mode calls for something else
03:20 walterbender unless the way we define the half-step is by using double sharp
03:20 in which case, we'd want C##
03:21 which in equal temperament would be the same as D
03:21 but in other tuning systems, maybe not
03:21 pikurasa riyalohia: As for different semi-tones, this article discusses them in detail: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitone
03:22 walterbender riyalohia, in any case, I think you can simplify your table
03:22 riyalohia walterbender, what changes do I have to make ?
03:22 pikurasa riyalohia: by the way, this book is great: https://books.google.com/books[…]onepage&q&f=false
03:22 and easy to read
03:23 walterbender riyalohia, I think you need the ratios, so you can calculate the correct note to send to the synth
03:24 but maybe the other changes are not necessary?
03:24 except to make sure that accidentals don't get confused with semi-tones.
03:25 (even though in equal-temp. they are the same)
03:25 pikurasa riyalohia: questions?
03:26 I know it is a bit challenging. It took me quite a while to wrap my brain around it -- and I am doing music all the time!
03:26 riyalohia Do I just need the ratios in my lookup table ?
03:26 pikurasa It does not help that the topic is avoided in music classes.
03:27 riyalohia ( I am really sorry but I am very confused )
03:27 walterbender riyalohia, I'll work on another diagram for you tomorrow to try to explain it.
03:28 riyalohia walterbender, what changes do I need to make for now ?
03:28 walterbender But basically, we use the table (ratios) to tweak the hertz associated with a note
03:29 and that in turn impacts the ratio between notes (interval)
03:29 but we still walk though the scales the same way.
03:29 just the notes we play have been tuned differently
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03:30 walterbender so the code mostly already handles the walking through scales part
03:30 but not the tweaking for the hertz
03:30 so the table needs to be placed between Music Blocks and the calls to the synth.
03:31 riyalohia, it will get more confused when we introduce additional notes beyond our 12 (21)
03:31 but we can deal with that later
03:32 pikurasa riyalohia: do you understand walter's basic advice?
03:32 riyalohia okay! so I will remove the pitches array in the table.
03:32 walterbender riyalohia, yes... wind back those changes
03:33 riyalohia pikurasa, which advice ?
03:33 walterbender and when the temperament is selected, populate a table based on the ratios to define the notes that will be played by the synth.
03:33 pikurasa riyalohia: (this advice)
03:33 walterbender the table for equal temperament can just be identity, since the synth uses equal temperament by default
03:34 but with meantone, the A is not necessarily 440 any more...
03:36 riyalohia walterbender, so I dont need to put ratios for equal temperament which is 2^(x/12) ?
03:36 pikurasa anything else?
03:36 walterbender riyalohia, it is good to have it there for completeness
03:36 riyalohia walterbender, got it!
03:36 walterbender it makes things clear as to what is happening
03:37 but in your calculations for the synth, it is already done by default
03:37 riyalohia I 'll change the table and revert back the calculations I changed.
03:37 walterbender OK
03:37 let me know when you have something for me to look at
03:38 riyalohia walterbender , okay!
03:38 walterbender anything else for tonight?
03:38 riyalohia walterbender, pikurasa, thank you so much for the help :)
03:39 walterbender that is what we are here for...
03:39 pikurasa riyalohia: no problem. Keep up the good pace!!
03:39 walterbender and your questions help me clarify things in my mind
03:39 pikurasa It's nice to have work to review!
03:39 is really excited about this
03:40 walterbender I need to call it a night soon
03:40 riyalohia pikurasa: I am also really excited about this :)
03:40 pikurasa families always ask for tips to learn how to tune by ear, and this is definitely going to be in the toolbox for teaching that concept!!!
03:40 walterbender riyalohia, please send email if you get stuck before I am back on line in the morning
03:40 riyalohia walterbender, okay :)
03:41 pikurasa feel free to cc me onto correspondences, too
03:41 riyalohia pikurasa, I will :)
03:41 pikurasa okay, g'night
03:41 bye riyalohia walterbender
03:41 pikurasa has quit IRC
03:42 riyalohia pikurasa, walterbender, bye!
03:42 walterbender good night
03:42 #end-meeting
03:42 meeting Meeting ended Wed May 16 03:42:40 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
03:42 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-16T02:32:20.html
03:42 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]18-05-16T02:32:20
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