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21:59 | Quozl | #endmeeting |
22:00 | #startmeeting | |
22:00 | meeting_ | Meeting started Tue Dec 12 22:00:08 2017 UTC. The chair is Quozl. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
22:00 | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting | |
22:00 | Quozl | #topic quorum |
22:00 | hello | |
22:01 | walterbender | hi |
22:01 | eohomegrownapps | pokes his head in |
22:01 | Quozl | #agreed quorum |
22:01 | #topic what we have been working on | |
22:01 | eohomegrownapps | (am I meant to be here?) |
22:01 | walterbender | eohomegrownapps, you are welcome |
22:02 | Quozl, I've been mostly working on administering GCI | |
22:02 | and a little Music Blocks and Turtle Blocks work on the side. | |
22:02 | eohomegrownapps | me, mainly being a GCI 'student' |
22:02 | walterbender | Lots of student participation this year: almost 400!!! |
22:03 | They have all learned (more or less) how to make a pull request | |
22:03 | and some, like eohomegrownapps, are making solid contributions | |
22:03 | a bunch of new sugar apps beginning to appear | |
22:03 | eohomegrownapps | woah - looking at the GCI org list SL has by far the highest number of tasks completed |
22:04 | walterbender | and some work on cleaning up old apps: licenses, etc. |
22:04 | Quozl | I've been doing various pull request reviews, how to elicit the helpful GitHub response when it recognises the md5sum of a COPYING file, testing Sugar and tracking on Ubuntu 18.04 beta, Speak-55, Read-118.1, and the Paint empty canvas bug. |
22:05 | eohomegrownapps | walterbender: I wouldn't really describe my contributions as 'solid' - more polystyrene than concrete |
22:05 | Quozl | I've also been helping a contributor directly who apparently wants to learn privately; they have been testing various activities and finding they don't start any more. |
22:06 | walterbender | Quozl, I've been having lots of issues with JavaScript activities |
22:06 | They seem to largely be broken in Sugar (but not Sugarizer, apparently) | |
22:07 | Quozl | walterbender: yes, i noticed that last or or the year before. they mostly aren't cross-platform. |
22:07 | walterbender | It is big problem as many developers are self-selecting JavaScript |
22:07 | and thinking that they are contributing to Sugar | |
22:07 | when they are not | |
22:08 | I think it largely has to do with the glue around the datastore and i18n | |
22:08 | but I am not 100% certain yet where all the problems lie. | |
22:09 | I've numerous work-arounds scattered through Music Blocks, for example, to keep it running outside of Sugarizer. | |
22:09 | Quozl | walterbender: at heart, the problem is developers are developing without executing their code within Sugar? ;-) |
22:09 | walterbender | Quozl, I think that many new developers think that executing in Sugarizer is the same as in Sugar |
22:09 | eohomegrownapps | from the perspective of GCI, as one of those developers, I'd say what's deterring me from contributing in Python is lack of GTK3 knowledge - HTML is a much more 'common' skill than GTK application design |
22:10 | Quozl | eohomegrownapps: we're talking about javascript activities though. |
22:10 | walterbender | eohomegrownapps, agreed, which is why we created sugar-web |
22:10 | but it seems to be forked in a way that breaks it in Sugar | |
22:10 | eohomegrownapps | understood, just commenting on *why* there might exist a predisposition towards JS |
22:11 | Quozl | eohomegrownapps: i think the predisposition is that there are more people who can already code in javascript for a UI, compared to Python for a UI, especially as we only offer GTK as the UI layer. exception is libsugarize.so which wraps a typical X app. |
22:12 | walterbender | anyway, I will try to dig a bit into where the breakage is... |
22:12 | eohomegrownapps | is sugar-web https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar-web? |
22:12 | walterbender | It seems that JS apps should run in Sugar, Sugarizer, and a vanilla browser |
22:12 | it is a wasted opportunity if they do not. | |
22:12 | Quozl | eohomegrownapps: yes, and sugar-web is also within sugarizer. |
22:13 | walterbender | where it was forked |
22:13 | eohomegrownapps | so the issue is that the sugar-web in sugarizer is out of sync with the sugar-web used in sugar itself? |
22:13 | walterbender | I think that is the core issue |
22:13 | Quozl | cross-platform development always requires a cross-platform developer. we had a cross-development environment and we attracted single-platform developers. ;-) |
22:14 | walterbender | and there are additional sugarizer layers being used that also cause problems outside of Sugarizer |
22:14 | Quozl, it also requires paying attention... | |
22:15 | Quozl | walterbender: but if the maintainer of the library doesn't want to support cross-platform development, then almost everything they do will break it. |
22:15 | walterbender | true. |
22:16 | Quozl | i've nothing further to add, and we did discuss a bit the second agend item; gci progress, so shall we call it a done meeting? |
22:16 | walterbender | sure... |
22:16 | eohomegrownapps | sorry, but just another question, if I may, |
22:16 | Quozl | eohomegrownapps: go ahead. |
22:16 | eohomegrownapps | where exactly does sugar-web end and sugarizer begin? |
22:17 | Quozl | eohomegrownapps: file boundary? |
22:17 | eohomegrownapps | more repo boundary |
22:17 | are we even keeping the two separate? | |
22:17 | llaske <llaske!~llaske![]() |
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22:18 | eohomegrownapps | something like git submodules |
22:18 | Quozl | eohomegrownapps: myself, i do not know. |
22:18 | walterbender | eohomegrownapps, I think submodules are the way to go, but llaske thinks otherwise and he is the Sugarizer maintainer |
22:19 | eohomegrownapps | llaske: thoughts? |
22:22 | walterbender | I wonder if he is really there or just his x-chat fired up |
22:22 | llaske has quit IRC | |
22:23 | walterbender | I guess we'll have to ask him to join us next time??? |
22:23 | Quozl | no worries. bit late over there. ;-) |
22:23 | walterbender | Quozl, maybe we can have a discussion specific to sugar-web sometime soon? |
22:24 | Quozl | walterbender: no objection, just that i don't know much about it myself. ;-) |
22:24 | eohomegrownapps | (time and revision dependent) I'd be keen to help |
22:24 | Quozl | eohomegrownapps: see what you can do to port a simple activity (small lines of code count) from sugarizer to sugar. |
22:25 | eohomegrownapps: that will help identify what library support needs porting back to sugar. | |
22:25 | eohomegrownapps | I'll try to do that |
22:25 | I have a few simple sugarizer activities from last year | |
22:25 | (actually sugar-->sugarizer porting tasks) | |
22:26 | they use most features of sugar including datastore so that should be a good test | |
22:27 | in the meantime, I might try to brave a few Python Sugar tasks to 'actually contribute to Sugar'... | |
22:27 | walterbender | :) |
22:27 | eohomegrownapps, we are here to help with that. | |
22:28 | eohomegrownapps | thanks - so far SL in general has been quite a friendly, helpful environment |
22:28 | Quozl | ever patient and friendly; i've nothing further for the meeting, shall we finish up? |
22:29 | walterbender | nothing more on this end |
22:29 | Quozl | eohomegrownapps: ? |
22:29 | eohomegrownapps | me neither; discussion's been useful |
22:29 | Quozl | #endmeeting |
22:29 | meeting_ | Meeting ended Tue Dec 12 22:29:52 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4) |
22:29 | Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-12T22:00:08.html | |
22:29 | Log: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]17-12-12T22:00:08 | |
22:29 | Quozl | thanks all! |
22:30 | switches back to #sugar | |
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