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#sugar-meeting, 2017-12-12

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All times shown according to UTC.

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21:59 Quozl #endmeeting
22:00 #startmeeting
22:00 meeting_ Meeting started Tue Dec 12 22:00:08 2017 UTC. The chair is Quozl. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
22:00 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
22:00 Quozl #topic quorum
22:00 hello
22:01 walterbender hi
22:01 eohomegrownapps pokes his head in
22:01 Quozl #agreed quorum
22:01 #topic what we have been working on
22:01 eohomegrownapps (am I meant to be here?)
22:01 walterbender eohomegrownapps, you are welcome
22:02 Quozl, I've been mostly working on administering GCI
22:02 and a little Music Blocks and Turtle Blocks work on the side.
22:02 eohomegrownapps me, mainly being a GCI 'student'
22:02 walterbender Lots of student participation this year: almost 400!!!
22:03 They have all learned (more or less) how to make a pull request
22:03 and some, like eohomegrownapps, are making solid contributions
22:03 a bunch of new sugar apps beginning to appear
22:03 eohomegrownapps woah - looking at the GCI org list SL has by far the highest number of tasks completed
22:04 walterbender and some work on cleaning up old apps: licenses, etc.
22:04 Quozl I've been doing various pull request reviews, how to elicit the helpful GitHub response when it recognises the md5sum of a COPYING file, testing Sugar and tracking on Ubuntu 18.04 beta, Speak-55, Read-118.1, and the Paint empty canvas bug.
22:05 eohomegrownapps walterbender: I wouldn't really describe my contributions as 'solid' - more polystyrene than concrete
22:05 Quozl I've also been helping a contributor directly who apparently wants to learn privately; they have been testing various activities and finding they don't start any more.
22:06 walterbender Quozl, I've been having lots of issues with JavaScript activities
22:06 They seem to largely be broken in Sugar (but not Sugarizer, apparently)
22:07 Quozl walterbender: yes, i noticed that last or or the year before.  they mostly aren't cross-platform.
22:07 walterbender It is big problem as many developers are self-selecting JavaScript
22:07 and thinking that they are contributing to Sugar
22:07 when they are not
22:08 I think it largely has to do with the glue around the datastore and i18n
22:08 but I am not 100% certain yet where all the problems lie.
22:09 I've numerous work-arounds scattered through Music Blocks, for example, to keep it running outside of Sugarizer.
22:09 Quozl walterbender: at heart, the problem is developers are developing without executing their code within Sugar?  ;-)
22:09 walterbender Quozl, I think that many new developers think that executing in Sugarizer is the same as in Sugar
22:09 eohomegrownapps from the perspective of GCI, as one of those developers, I'd say what's deterring me from contributing in Python is lack of GTK3 knowledge - HTML is a much more 'common' skill than GTK application design
22:10 Quozl eohomegrownapps: we're talking about javascript activities though.
22:10 walterbender eohomegrownapps, agreed, which is why we created sugar-web
22:10 but it seems to be forked in a way that breaks it in Sugar
22:10 eohomegrownapps understood, just commenting on *why* there might exist a predisposition towards JS
22:11 Quozl eohomegrownapps: i think the predisposition is that there are more people who can already code in javascript for a UI, compared to Python for a UI, especially as we only offer GTK as the UI layer.  exception is libsugarize.so which wraps a typical X app.
22:12 walterbender anyway, I will try to dig a bit into where the breakage is...
22:12 eohomegrownapps is sugar-web https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar-web?
22:12 walterbender It seems that JS apps should run in Sugar, Sugarizer, and a vanilla browser
22:12 it is a wasted opportunity if they do not.
22:12 Quozl eohomegrownapps: yes, and sugar-web is also within sugarizer.
22:13 walterbender where it was forked
22:13 eohomegrownapps so the issue is that the sugar-web in sugarizer is out of sync with the sugar-web used in sugar itself?
22:13 walterbender I think that is the core issue
22:13 Quozl cross-platform development always requires a cross-platform developer.  we had a cross-development environment and we attracted single-platform developers.  ;-)
22:14 walterbender and there are additional sugarizer layers being used that also cause problems outside of Sugarizer
22:14 Quozl, it also requires paying attention...
22:15 Quozl walterbender: but if the maintainer of the library doesn't want to support cross-platform development, then almost everything they do will break it.
22:15 walterbender true.
22:16 Quozl i've nothing further to add, and we did discuss a bit the second agend item; gci progress, so shall we call it a done meeting?
22:16 walterbender sure...
22:16 eohomegrownapps sorry, but just another question, if I may,
22:16 Quozl eohomegrownapps: go ahead.
22:16 eohomegrownapps where exactly does sugar-web end and sugarizer begin?
22:17 Quozl eohomegrownapps: file boundary?
22:17 eohomegrownapps more repo boundary
22:17 are we even keeping the two separate?
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22:18 eohomegrownapps something like git submodules
22:18 Quozl eohomegrownapps: myself, i do not know.
22:18 walterbender eohomegrownapps, I think submodules are the way to go, but llaske thinks otherwise and he is the Sugarizer maintainer
22:19 eohomegrownapps llaske: thoughts?
22:22 walterbender I wonder if he is really there or just his x-chat fired up
22:22 llaske has quit IRC
22:23 walterbender I guess we'll have to ask him to join us next time???
22:23 Quozl no worries.  bit late over there.  ;-)
22:23 walterbender Quozl, maybe we can have a discussion specific to sugar-web sometime soon?
22:24 Quozl walterbender: no objection, just that i don't know much about it myself.  ;-)
22:24 eohomegrownapps (time and revision dependent) I'd be keen to help
22:24 Quozl eohomegrownapps: see what you can do to port a simple activity (small lines of code count) from sugarizer to sugar.
22:25 eohomegrownapps: that will help identify what library support needs porting back to sugar.
22:25 eohomegrownapps I'll try to do that
22:25 I have a few simple sugarizer activities from last year
22:25 (actually sugar-->sugarizer porting tasks)
22:26 they use most features of sugar including datastore so that should be a good test
22:27 in the meantime, I might try to brave a few Python Sugar tasks to 'actually contribute to Sugar'...
22:27 walterbender :)
22:27 eohomegrownapps, we are here to help with that.
22:28 eohomegrownapps thanks - so far SL in general has been quite a friendly, helpful environment
22:28 Quozl ever patient and friendly; i've nothing further for the meeting, shall we finish up?
22:29 walterbender nothing more on this end
22:29 Quozl eohomegrownapps: ?
22:29 eohomegrownapps me neither; discussion's been useful
22:29 Quozl #endmeeting
22:29 meeting_ Meeting ended Tue Dec 12 22:29:52 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
22:29 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-12T22:00:08.html
22:29 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]17-12-12T22:00:08
22:29 Quozl thanks all!
22:30 switches back to #sugar
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