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#sugar-meeting, 2017-10-17

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22:00 Quozl #startmeeting
22:00 meeting Meeting started Tue Oct 17 22:00:08 2017 UTC. The chair is Quozl. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
22:00 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
22:01 pikurasa this is devin. I mainly work on Music Blocks (for past 3+ years). I am a professional musician and educator.
22:02 Quozl pikurasa: g'day.  i'm james.  i mainly work on python activities and the desktop.  i'm contracted to one laptop per child, where i also build operating system images, firmware tests, and kernel drivers.
22:02 #topic agenda
22:03 impact of GTK+ 2 removal, and what we have been working on.
22:03 i suggest the latter first, since you aren't using GTK+ directly.
22:03 #topic what we have been working on
22:04 pikurasa: so, what have you been working on in the last week; anything interesting, anything unsolved?
22:04 pikurasa I have been teaching a music and coding class at a public school
22:05 The real puzzle is how to get music blocks (and other sugar tools) into more schools
22:05 Quozl cool.  i've been teaching an electronics technology class with my wife at a local primary public school; 12 kids in two classes of 6, location "tooraweenah", population 76.
22:06 we get 90 minutes a week facing the kids, and plenty of time to prepare.
22:06 pikurasa As for technical bugs, they are all published on github: https://github.com/walterbende[…]sicblocks/issues/
22:06 We are on our 826+th bug
22:06 Quozl means there are at least 826 features, cool. ;-)
22:07 pikurasa Question: What is GTK?
22:08 Quozl pikurasa: it is a graphics toolkit underneath the browser.  also in the class of graphics toolkits are qt.  it does buttons, subwindows, controls, and the like.
22:08 pikurasa Quozl: link, please, if you have it
22:08 Quozl pikurasa: so for a webkit based browser, it will use a graphics toolkit to render menus, buttons, and those sort of things.
22:09 https://www.gtk.org/
22:09 pikurasa checks
22:09 Quozl https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GTK%2B
22:10 pikurasa Thanks
22:10 Quozl pikurasa: it is used for building native applications on desktop operating systems.  all of the sugar python activities depend on it.  none of the sugar javascript activities depend on it; they depend instead on a webkit instance which in turn depends on it.
22:11 pikurasa got it
22:12 Quozl so i've been assessing what sugar python activities need to be ported from GTK+ 2 to GTK+ 3, merging activity translations, and preparing the sugar toolkit (gtk api) for more translations.
22:13 pikurasa Quozl: ok
22:13 As for what I have been working on recently: I have been trying to create handouts for kids in the classroom as I have found that many of them need something more concrete to work on, and without a computer, before doing work on the computer.
22:13 Quozl yes, paper still wins for some kids.
22:14 pikurasa We have a /somewhat/ interactive guide, as well, that was created during GSoC, but it needs many improvements before it can really be used in a class.
22:14 And even with improvements, paper and "get on your feet" activities are still important
22:14 Quozl walter says he will be 15 minutes late.
22:15 for this class on friday, we're doing arduino LED blinking.
22:15 pikurasa Quozl: ok
22:15 Quozl: yes, that can be fun
22:15 Quozl my wife today is going to the school to figure out if the arduino IDE has been properly deployed to the desktop computers.
22:15 we have a classroom kit of 42 arduinos, and 21 thinkershield shields.
22:16 pikurasa this is an aside, but I think it would be fun if Music Blocks could export to Arduino code to make sounds on the arduino
22:16 I have coded some simple melodies, so I suppose it might be possible
22:16 Quozl someone made a derivative and a plugin for turtle blocks that interface with firmata on an arduino.
22:16 walterbender <walterbender!~walter@146.115.133.213> has joined #sugar-meeting
22:16 Quozl walterbender: hi.
22:17 pikurasa walterbender: hi
22:17 walterbender hi all
22:17 Quozl walterbender: we are in "what are we working on".
22:17 walterbender sounds like one thing is gtk2->gtk3 conversion :)
22:17 we can make that a focus of Google Code In...
22:18 always a popular task
22:18 pikurasa walterbender: I said we are on our 800+th issue for MB :p
22:18 walterbender just need to prioritize
22:18 >100 open issues :P
22:18 Quozl #agenda impact of GTK+ 2 removal in Fedora and Debian
22:18 #topic impact of GTK+ 2 removal in Fedora and Debian
22:18 walterbender Quozl, that is scheduled for F28?
22:19 Quozl so i've been told by debian developers a few days ago that they are expecting next release (buster) to remove gtk+ 2.
22:19 pikurasa is being talked to
22:19 walterbender we have most of the core activities converted
22:19 Quozl walterbender: debian buster will be possibly about the same timeframe as F28, or earlier.
22:20 walterbender but lots of "random" activities to convert
22:20 still, if we get much traction on GCI, we can probably put a dent in it
22:21 Quozl i think the core "fructose" set is converted, but that just highlights how irrelevant that set is.  ;-)
22:21 walterbender we have additional documentation on how to do it from this summer
22:21 (your winter)
22:21 Quozl on my list next are moon, labyrinth, and record.  then i've done all the activities that i ship at olpc.
22:22 i've got a good start on record, but it is still buggy and needs stabilising.
22:22 labyrinth upstream has ported already, iirc.
22:22 moon has a javascript alternative activity, which might be made to work as a bundle.
22:22 walterbender Quozl, moon should be pretty easy in any case
22:23 Quozl, I had written a gtk3 version of record at one point, but it was not optimized for the XO
22:23 Quozl moon has a huge cairo drawing code block to convert.  as for what debian developers are planning, any debian system that downloads a gtk+ 2 activity from aslo just won't let it work.
22:23 walterbender will try to find it.
22:24 any other priorities?
22:24 Quozl https://github.com/quozl/recor[…]ctivity/tree/gtk3 is my fork of record.
22:24 indeed, ripping out XO features is the order of the day for GTK+ 3 Record.
22:25 walterbender +1
22:25 Quozl i'm wondering how we make user experience better for a user who runs debian or fedora without gtk+ 2 and hits activities.sugarlabs.org breakages.
22:25 walterbender Quozl, the new ASLO will help
22:25 Quozl it will?  must have missed that.  how will it help?
22:26 walterbender as it will at least expose the fact that it is GTK2 vs GTK3
22:26 that was one of the tags we were adding, as I recall
22:26 Quozl ah, so should browse tell new ASLO what tags not to search for?
22:26 walterbender would make sense... but let's get the new ASLO up and running first
22:27 the license scraping script is working now
22:27 Quozl 'k.  i'm done.  nothing further to share at this stage.
22:27 walterbender I will ping SCG again to find out what else needs doing.
22:27 Quozl, I will look at the log to see what I missed.
22:28 But keep in mind anything that might be suitable for GCI
22:28 that has been a great source of developers for us -- sam, ignacio, etc.
22:28 Quozl motion; end meeting now?  pikurasa walterbender.
22:28 walterbender +1
22:29 pikurasa hi
22:29 sorry, I am at a maker space
22:30 a person said that she is enthusiastic about the possibility of free software in Egypt
22:30 they are starting an NPO apparently
22:31 yes, we can end meeting
22:31 thanks
22:31 Quozl #endmeeting
22:31 meeting Meeting ended Tue Oct 17 22:31:11 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
22:31 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-17T22:00:08.html
22:31 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]17-10-17T22:00:08
22:31 Quozl thanks!
22:31 walterbender pikurasa, some fun new MB examples :)
22:31 pikurasa, I have been working with a friend on performance
22:31 pikurasa yes, I am combing through the examples
22:31 and refining things
22:32 and tinkering
22:32 walterbender did you see the exchange I CC'd you on?
22:32 pikurasa yes, I saw the thread
22:32 It was confusing at first as it seemed to start as a job posting
22:32 walterbender sorry.
22:32 that was sent to me by accident and so I forwarded it to him
22:32 and the rest of the thread was about MB
22:33 pikurasa I tried the different branches. The rollback does not work at all for me
22:33 walterbender really?
22:33 pikurasa the other one does, but I thought I was suppose to compare to rollback
22:33 walterbender I think the other one is the one I'd like your feedback on
22:33 to see if the crackle is reduced
22:33 pikurasa and, to further my confusion, when I look through the whatchanged of the other branch it said something about "rollback"
22:34 walterbender looks
22:34 pikurasa and what does "rollback" mean exactly?
22:34 I guessed that you went back to a previous version
22:35 walterbender I rolled back all the commits to the synth code to a version that seemed to work better
22:35 https://github.com/walterbende[…]/synth-experiment
22:35 at least for me
22:35 but I want more testing on different hardware
22:35 then I will try to add back in functionality without messing up the performance
22:36 MB wasn't always crackly
22:36 pikurasa git checkout origin/synth-experiment
22:36 Previous HEAD position was 7ff719b... generalize notation code
22:36 HEAD is now at 12e39bd... rollback of synth code
22:36 walterbender I only changed the synth code.
22:36 pikurasa This is the branch I am on now.
22:36 walterbender everything else is current
22:37 pikurasa This one works, but the other does not get past splash screen
22:37 tries again
22:37 walterbender forget about the other one
22:37 pikurasa sure
22:37 walterbender and this one will not work for everying
22:37 but the basic synth should work
22:37 poly
22:38 pikurasa the sound has been good for me so far. There still exists some crackling...
22:38 however, I would really like to try on those Chromebooks the kids have on Mondays
22:38 walterbender but it is better than current master?
22:38 pikurasa The crackling was really bad on those
22:38 walterbender that'd be great if you could test it next week
22:38 pikurasa checks against master
22:39 walterbender pikurasa, I may give you a version to test that doesn't blink the mice too
22:39 it seems easel.js is enough of a tax on the CPU that the audio is compromised
22:40 We prob. have to do several things
22:40 wonders how to detect load in JS
22:41 Quozl https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/[…]ent_Team/Meetings updated
22:41 walterbender Quozl, thx
22:41 pikurasa I do not notice a difference between the branches... that being said, I do not hear the crackle in either...
22:42 Quozl: thanks
22:42 walterbender pikurasa, let's see what you find on Monday.
22:42 pikurasa, I will make several other tests for you to try aa well.
22:44 pikurasa okay, for future tests you want me to test synth-experiment against master, correct
22:44 ?
22:45 walterbender yes
22:45 and I will make another branch without blink
22:47 pikurasa oh no... I like blink :p
22:49 walterbender: where is the version of crabcanon that you used as the example? This one is different: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Crab_canon.png
22:50 walterbender one sec
22:50 https://github.com/walterbende[…]ples/crabcanon.tb
22:51 pikurasa I mean, where did you get the original score that you used as an example?
22:57 wonders if we can have sharp/flat around set key block
22:58 Quozl don't forget to move back to #sugar ... ;-)
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