Sugar meeting

All times shown according to UTC.

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22:00	Quozl	#startmeeting
22:00	meeting	Meeting started Tue Oct 17 22:00:08 2017 UTC. The chair is Quozl. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
22:00		Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
22:01	pikurasa	this is devin. I mainly work on Music Blocks (for past 3+ years). I am a professional musician and educator.
22:02	Quozl	pikurasa: g'day. i'm james. i mainly work on python activities and the desktop. i'm contracted to one laptop per child, where i also build operating system images, firmware tests, and kernel drivers.
22:02		#topic agenda
22:03		impact of GTK+ 2 removal, and what we have been working on.
22:03		i suggest the latter first, since you aren't using GTK+ directly.
22:03		#topic what we have been working on
22:04		pikurasa: so, what have you been working on in the last week; anything interesting, anything unsolved?
22:04	pikurasa	I have been teaching a music and coding class at a public school
22:05		The real puzzle is how to get music blocks (and other sugar tools) into more schools
22:05	Quozl	cool. i've been teaching an electronics technology class with my wife at a local primary public school; 12 kids in two classes of 6, location "tooraweenah", population 76.
22:06		we get 90 minutes a week facing the kids, and plenty of time to prepare.
22:06	pikurasa	As for technical bugs, they are all published on github: https://github.com/walterbende[…]sicblocks/issues/
22:06		We are on our 826+th bug
22:06	Quozl	means there are at least 826 features, cool. ;-)
22:07	pikurasa	Question: What is GTK?
22:08	Quozl	pikurasa: it is a graphics toolkit underneath the browser. also in the class of graphics toolkits are qt. it does buttons, subwindows, controls, and the like.
22:08	pikurasa	Quozl: link, please, if you have it
22:08	Quozl	pikurasa: so for a webkit based browser, it will use a graphics toolkit to render menus, buttons, and those sort of things.
22:09		https://www.gtk.org/
22:09	pikurasa	checks
22:09	Quozl	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GTK%2B
22:10	pikurasa	Thanks
22:10	Quozl	pikurasa: it is used for building native applications on desktop operating systems. all of the sugar python activities depend on it. none of the sugar javascript activities depend on it; they depend instead on a webkit instance which in turn depends on it.
22:11	pikurasa	got it
22:12	Quozl	so i've been assessing what sugar python activities need to be ported from GTK+ 2 to GTK+ 3, merging activity translations, and preparing the sugar toolkit (gtk api) for more translations.
22:13	pikurasa	Quozl: ok
22:13		As for what I have been working on recently: I have been trying to create handouts for kids in the classroom as I have found that many of them need something more concrete to work on, and without a computer, before doing work on the computer.
22:13	Quozl	yes, paper still wins for some kids.
22:14	pikurasa	We have a /somewhat/ interactive guide, as well, that was created during GSoC, but it needs many improvements before it can really be used in a class.
22:14		And even with improvements, paper and "get on your feet" activities are still important
22:14	Quozl	walter says he will be 15 minutes late.
22:15		for this class on friday, we're doing arduino LED blinking.
22:15	pikurasa	Quozl: ok
22:15		Quozl: yes, that can be fun
22:15	Quozl	my wife today is going to the school to figure out if the arduino IDE has been properly deployed to the desktop computers.
22:15		we have a classroom kit of 42 arduinos, and 21 thinkershield shields.
22:16	pikurasa	this is an aside, but I think it would be fun if Music Blocks could export to Arduino code to make sounds on the arduino
22:16		I have coded some simple melodies, so I suppose it might be possible
22:16	Quozl	someone made a derivative and a plugin for turtle blocks that interface with firmata on an arduino.
22:16		walterbender <walterbender!~walter146.115.133.213> has joined #sugar-meeting
22:16	Quozl	walterbender: hi.
22:17	pikurasa	walterbender: hi
22:17	walterbender	hi all
22:17	Quozl	walterbender: we are in "what are we working on".
22:17	walterbender	sounds like one thing is gtk2->gtk3 conversion :)
22:17		we can make that a focus of Google Code In...
22:18		always a popular task
22:18	pikurasa	walterbender: I said we are on our 800+th issue for MB :p
22:18	walterbender	just need to prioritize
22:18		>100 open issues :P
22:18	Quozl	#agenda impact of GTK+ 2 removal in Fedora and Debian
22:18		#topic impact of GTK+ 2 removal in Fedora and Debian
22:18	walterbender	Quozl, that is scheduled for F28?
22:19	Quozl	so i've been told by debian developers a few days ago that they are expecting next release (buster) to remove gtk+ 2.
22:19	pikurasa	is being talked to
22:19	walterbender	we have most of the core activities converted
22:19	Quozl	walterbender: debian buster will be possibly about the same timeframe as F28, or earlier.
22:20	walterbender	but lots of "random" activities to convert
22:20		still, if we get much traction on GCI, we can probably put a dent in it
22:21	Quozl	i think the core "fructose" set is converted, but that just highlights how irrelevant that set is. ;-)
22:21	walterbender	we have additional documentation on how to do it from this summer
22:21		(your winter)
22:21	Quozl	on my list next are moon, labyrinth, and record. then i've done all the activities that i ship at olpc.
22:22		i've got a good start on record, but it is still buggy and needs stabilising.
22:22		labyrinth upstream has ported already, iirc.
22:22		moon has a javascript alternative activity, which might be made to work as a bundle.
22:22	walterbender	Quozl, moon should be pretty easy in any case
22:23		Quozl, I had written a gtk3 version of record at one point, but it was not optimized for the XO
22:23	Quozl	moon has a huge cairo drawing code block to convert. as for what debian developers are planning, any debian system that downloads a gtk+ 2 activity from aslo just won't let it work.
22:23	walterbender	will try to find it.
22:24		any other priorities?
22:24	Quozl	https://github.com/quozl/recor[…]ctivity/tree/gtk3 is my fork of record.
22:24		indeed, ripping out XO features is the order of the day for GTK+ 3 Record.
22:25	walterbender	+1
22:25	Quozl	i'm wondering how we make user experience better for a user who runs debian or fedora without gtk+ 2 and hits activities.sugarlabs.org breakages.
22:25	walterbender	Quozl, the new ASLO will help
22:25	Quozl	it will? must have missed that. how will it help?
22:26	walterbender	as it will at least expose the fact that it is GTK2 vs GTK3
22:26		that was one of the tags we were adding, as I recall
22:26	Quozl	ah, so should browse tell new ASLO what tags not to search for?
22:26	walterbender	would make sense... but let's get the new ASLO up and running first
22:27		the license scraping script is working now
22:27	Quozl	'k. i'm done. nothing further to share at this stage.
22:27	walterbender	I will ping SCG again to find out what else needs doing.
22:27		Quozl, I will look at the log to see what I missed.
22:28		But keep in mind anything that might be suitable for GCI
22:28		that has been a great source of developers for us -- sam, ignacio, etc.
22:28	Quozl	motion; end meeting now? pikurasa walterbender.
22:28	walterbender	+1
22:29	pikurasa	hi
22:29		sorry, I am at a maker space
22:30		a person said that she is enthusiastic about the possibility of free software in Egypt
22:30		they are starting an NPO apparently
22:31		yes, we can end meeting
22:31		thanks
22:31	Quozl	#endmeeting
22:31	meeting	Meeting ended Tue Oct 17 22:31:11 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
22:31		Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-17T22:00:08.html
22:31		Log: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]17-10-17T22:00:08
22:31	Quozl	thanks!
22:31	walterbender	pikurasa, some fun new MB examples :)
22:31		pikurasa, I have been working with a friend on performance
22:31	pikurasa	yes, I am combing through the examples
22:31		and refining things
22:32		and tinkering
22:32	walterbender	did you see the exchange I CC'd you on?
22:32	pikurasa	yes, I saw the thread
22:32		It was confusing at first as it seemed to start as a job posting
22:32	walterbender	sorry.
22:32		that was sent to me by accident and so I forwarded it to him
22:32		and the rest of the thread was about MB
22:33	pikurasa	I tried the different branches. The rollback does not work at all for me
22:33	walterbender	really?
22:33	pikurasa	the other one does, but I thought I was suppose to compare to rollback
22:33	walterbender	I think the other one is the one I'd like your feedback on
22:33		to see if the crackle is reduced
22:33	pikurasa	and, to further my confusion, when I look through the whatchanged of the other branch it said something about "rollback"
22:34	walterbender	looks
22:34	pikurasa	and what does "rollback" mean exactly?
22:34		I guessed that you went back to a previous version
22:35	walterbender	I rolled back all the commits to the synth code to a version that seemed to work better
22:35		https://github.com/walterbende[…]/synth-experiment
22:35		at least for me
22:35		but I want more testing on different hardware
22:35		then I will try to add back in functionality without messing up the performance
22:36		MB wasn't always crackly
22:36	pikurasa	git checkout origin/synth-experiment
22:36		Previous HEAD position was 7ff719b... generalize notation code
22:36		HEAD is now at 12e39bd... rollback of synth code
22:36	walterbender	I only changed the synth code.
22:36	pikurasa	This is the branch I am on now.
22:36	walterbender	everything else is current
22:37	pikurasa	This one works, but the other does not get past splash screen
22:37		tries again
22:37	walterbender	forget about the other one
22:37	pikurasa	sure
22:37	walterbender	and this one will not work for everying
22:37		but the basic synth should work
22:37		poly
22:38	pikurasa	the sound has been good for me so far. There still exists some crackling...
22:38		however, I would really like to try on those Chromebooks the kids have on Mondays
22:38	walterbender	but it is better than current master?
22:38	pikurasa	The crackling was really bad on those
22:38	walterbender	that'd be great if you could test it next week
22:38	pikurasa	checks against master
22:39	walterbender	pikurasa, I may give you a version to test that doesn't blink the mice too
22:39		it seems easel.js is enough of a tax on the CPU that the audio is compromised
22:40		We prob. have to do several things
22:40		wonders how to detect load in JS
22:41	Quozl	https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/[…]ent_Team/Meetings updated
22:41	walterbender	Quozl, thx
22:41	pikurasa	I do not notice a difference between the branches... that being said, I do not hear the crackle in either...
22:42		Quozl: thanks
22:42	walterbender	pikurasa, let's see what you find on Monday.
22:42		pikurasa, I will make several other tests for you to try aa well.
22:44	pikurasa	okay, for future tests you want me to test synth-experiment against master, correct
22:44		?
22:45	walterbender	yes
22:45		and I will make another branch without blink
22:47	pikurasa	oh no... I like blink :p
22:49		walterbender: where is the version of crabcanon that you used as the example? This one is different: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Crab_canon.png
22:50	walterbender	one sec
22:50		https://github.com/walterbende[…]ples/crabcanon.tb
22:51	pikurasa	I mean, where did you get the original score that you used as an example?
22:57		wonders if we can have sharp/flat around set key block
22:58	Quozl	don't forget to move back to #sugar ... ;-)
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#sugar-meeting, 2017-10-17