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#sugar-meeting, 2017-05-26

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14:30 walterbender hi HrishiP pragr07
14:30 pragr07 Hello everyone
14:32 walterbender I thought devin was going to join us
14:33 pragr07, FYI, the idea is Wednesday we talk about technical details and Fridays about music and pedagogy
14:34 of course we can talk about anything pressing as well
14:34 pikurasa <pikurasa!~devin@50-247-198-205-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net> has joined #sugar-meeting
14:34 pragr07 ok
14:35 pikurasa hi
14:35 walterbender hi pikurasa
14:35 pikurasa, just to bring you up to speed on a few things
14:35 Tabs16 <Tabs16!uid157594@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hgvzwmlotgeexfne> has joined #sugar-meeting
14:36 walterbender tabs has been working on adding some effects blocks
14:36 Tabs16 hello all
14:36 walterbender See https://github.com/walterbende[…]icblocks/pull/683
14:36 pikurasa walterbender: I fetched the changes yesterday and looked at code, but did not test
14:36 ...was not sure if it was ready to test
14:36 walterbender there are a few things that need cleaning up before it is operational
14:37 but testing would be really helpful, as well as helping to establish some decent default values
14:37 Tabs16 prachi , thanrangi here?
14:37 walterbender I haven't seen thanrangi
14:37 pragr07 yes Tabs
14:37 walterbender but she sent an email with her latest design ideas
14:37 Tabs16 hi pragr07
14:38 walterbender pikurasa, better calibrating the effects from a musical POV would be helpful
14:38 and beyond my abilities
14:38 Tabs16 walterbender: I did some code cleanup and just saw your comment regarding trigger
14:38 walterbender pikurasa, also, pragr07 and I had a discussion this morning about next steps
14:38 pikurasa Tabs16: please let me know what I should be looking for when I try it out
14:39 (that helps me 1) find what I need quickly and 2) stay focused)
14:39 Tabs16 pikurasa: there are the effects block in tone palette
14:39 walterbender I am hoping she can help us stabilize the interface between MB and tone.js in the short term
14:39 Tabs16 tremolo, phaser , chorus and distortion
14:40 walterbender:  what exactly tone.js?
14:40 *as in which part?
14:40 walterbender the overall structure of MB is like this:
14:41 [activity.js [logo.js [musicutils.js [synth.js [tone.js]]]]]
14:41 I want to work with pragr07 from the core outward
14:41 ensuring that we really have a stable base
14:41 and understand all of the details
14:42 along the way, we can make sure the utilities you need for the Timbre Widget are in place
14:42 and we can revisit getNote and how mode and temperement are handled
14:42 with HrishiP I hope to work on some improvements to the block code
14:43 and thanrangi and Devin can work on how to present all of this to new users and teachers
14:44 Tabs16 btw walterbender , tremolo block did work, when i plugged in my earphones :P
14:44 walterbender Tabs16, nice
14:44 Tabs16, the built in speakers don't really do MB justice
14:44 Tabs16 yes, agreed
14:44 walterbender pikurasa, BTW, did you get a chance to try that .TB file I sent you the other day?
14:45 the one from Daniel Francis?
14:45 pikurasa walterbender: yes. I thought I sent a quick reply
14:45 Tabs16 walterbender: What shall be my next steps ,apart from the trigger method you pointed out to?
14:46 walterbender Tabs16, After that I will merge these PRs
14:46 pikurasa walterbender: I said I liked the Bach invention
14:46 walterbender and pragr07 will be digging into the snyth code
14:46 maybe you can discuss with her the methods you'll want for your widget
14:47 and we can discuss the idea of a custom synth obj
14:47 be nice to formalize its design
14:47 pikurasa, I must have missed your comment
14:47 pikurasa, I thought his MB code was quite interesting
14:48 pikurasa Tabs16: would you mind sending links to other webapps that use the same tone.js libraries, please?
14:48 walterbender esp. the extensive mode switching
14:48 Tabs16 webapps or examples , pikurasa ?
14:48 pikurasa walterbender: I did not look at the logic yet...
14:48 ...but what I did see was unexpected for my first look
14:49 Tabs16: webapps
14:49 Tabs16: b/c this distortion does not sound much like I expect it to
14:49 walterbender pikurasa, we struggled with that effect
14:49 pikurasa I want to know the "state of the art" for tone.js better
14:50 haha, phaser is pretty interesting
14:50 Tabs16 even I am not convinced with the distortion effect
14:50 still
14:50 pikurasa: I need to find some webapps then that use tone.js
14:50 pikurasa Led Zepplin would be really disappointed with this distortion effect :p
14:51 Tabs16: there were six or so that Google came out with. I documented my experience using them somewhere...
14:53 The defaults for phaser and chorus make what it does obvious, but may be a little extreme
14:53 walterbender pikurasa, there are links from https://github.com/Tonejs/Tone.js/
14:53 https://tonejs.github.io/demos
14:53 note that MB is one of their demos :)
14:54 Tabs16 yes, that  what i meant by examples :P
14:54 pikurasa walterbender: really? Since when???
14:54 walterbender for quite some time...
14:54 pikurasa walterbender: Cool!
14:55 walterbender you should check out https://learningmusic.ableton.com/
14:56 could be helpful in designing our documentation
14:56 pikurasa the ableton site has good sound -- is this also tone.js I wonder...
14:56 walterbender It is tone.js
14:57 It is for this reason I think we need to work on the synth code, where the interface to tone.js is made
14:57 we should have better sound
14:57 pikurasa This is pretty much the matrix on this page: https://learningmusic.ableton.[…]s/make-beats.html
14:58 walterbender yes
14:58 pikurasa walterbender: +1, yes better sound would be great!
14:58 walterbender pragr07, ^^ your mission :)
14:59 pragr07 Yes :)
14:59 pikurasa yes, the ableton site will be very helpful
14:59 thanks walterbender
15:00 walterbender pikurasa, we should make a PR with a better image to use on https://tonejs.github.io/demos
15:01 Tabs16 walterbender: pikurasa  I will document some things about UI
15:01 pikurasa yes, that is an illogical image walterbender
15:02 Tabs16 agreed
15:02 pikurasa Tabs16: some things about UI, with regard to what?
15:03 (I did not understand)
15:03 Tabs16 re Timbre widget
15:04 walterbender Tabs16, what would be good, as I was saying earlier, is to come up with a design for the custom synth object: what are its instance variables and methods
15:04 that will serve as the interface between the widget and the work pragr07 is going to do on synth
15:05 needs to disappear in about 10 minutes...
15:06 pikurasa Maybe we can review what we understand our goals for the weekend/week to be?
15:06 Tabs16 so the custom synth object will be based on the synths we have to inculcate
15:06 ?
15:06 i am not clear with the custo msynth
15:06 object
15:07 i mean it's  nitty gritties
15:08 walterbender Tabs16, presumably in your widget you'll let the user set a bunch of parameters and effects that define a custom synth
15:09 pikurasa Tabs16: for phaser and chorus, what is the unit for the "rate" value? For example, is it "ms" or is it "note value" or something else?
15:09 walterbender we need to create some object from all of that which we can use with the synth code
15:09 Tabs16 it is frequency pikurasa
15:09 okay walterbender
15:09 pikurasa Tabs16: a multiple of the frequency?
15:10 walterbender Tabs16, eventually, maybe all of the synths can be described as instances of this object
15:10 Tabs16 it is just frequency pikurasa
15:11 walterbender in HZ presumably
15:11 Tabs16 +1
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15:12 pikurasa Tabs16: walterbender I am trying rate for phaser and 0 seems to do nothing, 1 something, and 2 seems twice as intense as 1
15:12 ...so I would have guessed a multiple of intensity of the effect...
15:12 Tabs16 walterbender: I was supposed to have a set-timbre clamp which will have the notes whose timbre needs to be changed
15:13 walterbender pikurasa, https://tonejs.github.io/docs/#Phaser
15:14 pikurasa walterbender: thanks, I will read it now
15:14 walterbender needs to run... Tabs16 I will catch up with you later re your question
15:15 pikurasa, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phaser_(effect)
15:15 Tabs16 ok walterbender
15:15 pikurasa Tabs16: please stay here for a sec
15:15 Tabs16 yes pikurasa
15:17 pikurasa Okay, I see...
15:17 When they say frequency, they mean
15:17 "how frequent the [back and forth]"
15:17 not Hz
15:18 For the most part, we use "frequency" for a pitch, Hz
15:18 It says "Frequency = The speed of the phasing." https://tonejs.github.io/docs/#Phaser
15:19 Tabs16 so basically it is the rate onyl?
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15:19 pikurasa I am not sure "rate" is the best word either...
15:20 "effect frequency", maybe
15:21 Tabs16: Its frequency is in relation to what?
15:21 Please tell me if you know.
15:21 Tabs16 what about "phasing speed"?
15:21 pikurasa It seems independent to the length of note
15:22 Does it have a set time? 1 = 1 second, maybe
15:22 Tabs16 https://tonejs.github.io/docs/#types/Frequency the description may seem fine
15:23 pikurasa seems more like 0.5 = 1 second
15:23 Tabs16: they use the word frequency differently here
15:23 "A number is taken literally as the value in hertz."
15:23 that is more how we are using it for MB
15:24 maybe "factor" or "phase factor"? Or effect "factor"?
15:24 Tabs16 maybe, it is at whhat frequency the phaser should run
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15:25 pikurasa Tabs16: No. It is not doing that.
15:25 The tone.js phaser "frequency" is independent of Hz.
15:26 "rate" is not bad... more on the right track (I think I remember having this convo with Ayush)
15:26 I think "rate factor" may be better
15:27 Tabs16 yup, even at the time of proposal, you suggested for rate
15:28 pikurasa Tabs16: "frequency" for tremolo should be changed
15:29 Tabs16 to ?
15:29 pikurasa That is effecting the "rate", but in a unit of "note value"
15:29 walterbender <walterbender!~walter@dhcp-18-111-97-7.dyn.mit.edu> has joined #sugar-meeting
15:29 pikurasa (which is very good)
15:29 Tabs16 so rate is okay?
15:30 pikurasa it is *okay*, but we have two kinds of rate now... please change to "rate" for now. Definitely needs to be documented so that users know what is different.
15:32 Tabs16: And please investigate what the phaser and chorus rate are in relationship to (i.e. a particular unit of time) This documentation does not seem to say.
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15:37 Tabs16 ok done
15:38 pikurasa Tabs16: thanks. Did you make note of what the documentation might need to describe what each param does?
15:39 Tabs16 i dint understand what you mean to say
15:41 pikurasa It is important to document the following: 1) rate for tremolo is in the unit of "note value"
15:42 2) rate for chorus is "The speed (rate) of the phasing."
15:42 *phaser ^^
15:43 3) rate for chorus is "The rate of the LFO (low frequency oscillator)."
15:44 and then, we need to figure out what the latter two rates are in relation to
15:44 the first one is in relation to tempo (i.e. changing the tempo affects the relative rate for tremolo)
15:46 actually, it does not seem to. I thought it did... I thought that was what the point was...
15:47 It does what I expect for vibrato...
15:47 hold on a sec
15:50 This is a different tremolo from what I wrote out designs for...
15:51 This is fine to have, but at some point we would want the other tremolo
15:51 I thought it was this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tremolo
15:51 But what we have in MB now is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/[…]lectronic_effect)
15:52 that was confusing b/c I was expecting something entirely different
15:52 Tabs16: you still there?
15:52 I am almost done. Thanks for patience.
15:52 Tabs16 i am still there pikurasa
15:53 this would all be documented in the guide?
15:53 pikurasa Tabs16: I am not "there", but I am "here" :p
15:54 Tabs16: We need some name for the current "tremolo" to disambiguate it from a future (traditional) "tremolo"
15:54 What about "electronic tremolo"?
15:54 Is that too long?
15:55 Tabs16 it seems too long for a name
15:55 pikurasa elec-tremolo
15:55 Tabs16 i am sorry pikurasa , was just caught up in something, my lil cousin fell down and got hurt
15:55 pikurasa oh no!
15:55 Tabs16 yup, elec-tremolo is good
15:55 pikurasa If you need to help, go ahead!
15:56 Okay, elec-tremolo it is.
15:57 So "rate" for 1) elec-tremolo, 2) phaser, and 3) chorus is rate (speed, frequency) of their respective effects
15:57 Tabs16 yes +1
15:58 pikurasa and we need to figure out what that rate is in relationship to. That is it!
15:58 Tabs16 okay
15:58 I will document the necessary
15:59 gtg urgently
15:59 pikurasa Really, the word "tremolo" caused a lot of confusion :p
15:59 okay Tabs16 bye thanks
15:59 Tabs16 bye bye pikurasa
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