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| 14:30 | walterbender | hi HrishiP pragr07 |
| 14:30 | pragr07 | Hello everyone |
| 14:32 | walterbender | I thought devin was going to join us |
| 14:33 | pragr07, FYI, the idea is Wednesday we talk about technical details and Fridays about music and pedagogy | |
| 14:34 | of course we can talk about anything pressing as well | |
| 14:34 | pikurasa <pikurasa!~devin50-247-198-205-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net> has joined #sugar-meeting |
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| 14:34 | pragr07 | ok |
| 14:35 | pikurasa | hi |
| 14:35 | walterbender | hi pikurasa |
| 14:35 | pikurasa, just to bring you up to speed on a few things | |
| 14:35 | Tabs16 <Tabs16!uid157594gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hgvzwmlotgeexfne> has joined #sugar-meeting |
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| 14:36 | walterbender | tabs has been working on adding some effects blocks |
| 14:36 | Tabs16 | hello all |
| 14:36 | walterbender | See https://github.com/walterbende[…]icblocks/pull/683 |
| 14:36 | pikurasa | walterbender: I fetched the changes yesterday and looked at code, but did not test |
| 14:36 | ...was not sure if it was ready to test | |
| 14:36 | walterbender | there are a few things that need cleaning up before it is operational |
| 14:37 | but testing would be really helpful, as well as helping to establish some decent default values | |
| 14:37 | Tabs16 | prachi , thanrangi here? |
| 14:37 | walterbender | I haven't seen thanrangi |
| 14:37 | pragr07 | yes Tabs |
| 14:37 | walterbender | but she sent an email with her latest design ideas |
| 14:37 | Tabs16 | hi pragr07 |
| 14:38 | walterbender | pikurasa, better calibrating the effects from a musical POV would be helpful |
| 14:38 | and beyond my abilities | |
| 14:38 | Tabs16 | walterbender: I did some code cleanup and just saw your comment regarding trigger |
| 14:38 | walterbender | pikurasa, also, pragr07 and I had a discussion this morning about next steps |
| 14:38 | pikurasa | Tabs16: please let me know what I should be looking for when I try it out |
| 14:39 | (that helps me 1) find what I need quickly and 2) stay focused) | |
| 14:39 | Tabs16 | pikurasa: there are the effects block in tone palette |
| 14:39 | walterbender | I am hoping she can help us stabilize the interface between MB and tone.js in the short term |
| 14:39 | Tabs16 | tremolo, phaser , chorus and distortion |
| 14:40 | walterbender: what exactly tone.js? | |
| 14:40 | *as in which part? | |
| 14:40 | walterbender | the overall structure of MB is like this: |
| 14:41 | [activity.js [logo.js [musicutils.js [synth.js [tone.js]]]]] | |
| 14:41 | I want to work with pragr07 from the core outward | |
| 14:41 | ensuring that we really have a stable base | |
| 14:41 | and understand all of the details | |
| 14:42 | along the way, we can make sure the utilities you need for the Timbre Widget are in place | |
| 14:42 | and we can revisit getNote and how mode and temperement are handled | |
| 14:42 | with HrishiP I hope to work on some improvements to the block code | |
| 14:43 | and thanrangi and Devin can work on how to present all of this to new users and teachers | |
| 14:44 | Tabs16 | btw walterbender , tremolo block did work, when i plugged in my earphones :P |
| 14:44 | walterbender | Tabs16, nice |
| 14:44 | Tabs16, the built in speakers don't really do MB justice | |
| 14:44 | Tabs16 | yes, agreed |
| 14:44 | walterbender | pikurasa, BTW, did you get a chance to try that .TB file I sent you the other day? |
| 14:45 | the one from Daniel Francis? | |
| 14:45 | pikurasa | walterbender: yes. I thought I sent a quick reply |
| 14:45 | Tabs16 | walterbender: What shall be my next steps ,apart from the trigger method you pointed out to? |
| 14:46 | walterbender | Tabs16, After that I will merge these PRs |
| 14:46 | pikurasa | walterbender: I said I liked the Bach invention |
| 14:46 | walterbender | and pragr07 will be digging into the snyth code |
| 14:46 | maybe you can discuss with her the methods you'll want for your widget | |
| 14:47 | and we can discuss the idea of a custom synth obj | |
| 14:47 | be nice to formalize its design | |
| 14:47 | pikurasa, I must have missed your comment | |
| 14:47 | pikurasa, I thought his MB code was quite interesting | |
| 14:48 | pikurasa | Tabs16: would you mind sending links to other webapps that use the same tone.js libraries, please? |
| 14:48 | walterbender | esp. the extensive mode switching |
| 14:48 | Tabs16 | webapps or examples , pikurasa ? |
| 14:48 | pikurasa | walterbender: I did not look at the logic yet... |
| 14:48 | ...but what I did see was unexpected for my first look | |
| 14:49 | Tabs16: webapps | |
| 14:49 | Tabs16: b/c this distortion does not sound much like I expect it to | |
| 14:49 | walterbender | pikurasa, we struggled with that effect |
| 14:49 | pikurasa | I want to know the "state of the art" for tone.js better |
| 14:50 | haha, phaser is pretty interesting | |
| 14:50 | Tabs16 | even I am not convinced with the distortion effect |
| 14:50 | still | |
| 14:50 | pikurasa: I need to find some webapps then that use tone.js | |
| 14:50 | pikurasa | Led Zepplin would be really disappointed with this distortion effect :p |
| 14:51 | Tabs16: there were six or so that Google came out with. I documented my experience using them somewhere... | |
| 14:53 | The defaults for phaser and chorus make what it does obvious, but may be a little extreme | |
| 14:53 | walterbender | pikurasa, there are links from https://github.com/Tonejs/Tone.js/ |
| 14:53 | https://tonejs.github.io/demos | |
| 14:53 | note that MB is one of their demos :) | |
| 14:54 | Tabs16 | yes, that what i meant by examples :P |
| 14:54 | pikurasa | walterbender: really? Since when??? |
| 14:54 | walterbender | for quite some time... |
| 14:54 | pikurasa | walterbender: Cool! |
| 14:55 | walterbender | you should check out https://learningmusic.ableton.com/ |
| 14:56 | could be helpful in designing our documentation | |
| 14:56 | pikurasa | the ableton site has good sound -- is this also tone.js I wonder... |
| 14:56 | walterbender | It is tone.js |
| 14:57 | It is for this reason I think we need to work on the synth code, where the interface to tone.js is made | |
| 14:57 | we should have better sound | |
| 14:57 | pikurasa | This is pretty much the matrix on this page: https://learningmusic.ableton.[…]s/make-beats.html |
| 14:58 | walterbender | yes |
| 14:58 | pikurasa | walterbender: +1, yes better sound would be great! |
| 14:58 | walterbender | pragr07, ^^ your mission :) |
| 14:59 | pragr07 | Yes :) |
| 14:59 | pikurasa | yes, the ableton site will be very helpful |
| 14:59 | thanks walterbender | |
| 15:00 | walterbender | pikurasa, we should make a PR with a better image to use on https://tonejs.github.io/demos |
| 15:01 | Tabs16 | walterbender: pikurasa I will document some things about UI |
| 15:01 | pikurasa | yes, that is an illogical image walterbender |
| 15:02 | Tabs16 | agreed |
| 15:02 | pikurasa | Tabs16: some things about UI, with regard to what? |
| 15:03 | (I did not understand) | |
| 15:03 | Tabs16 | re Timbre widget |
| 15:04 | walterbender | Tabs16, what would be good, as I was saying earlier, is to come up with a design for the custom synth object: what are its instance variables and methods |
| 15:04 | that will serve as the interface between the widget and the work pragr07 is going to do on synth | |
| 15:05 | needs to disappear in about 10 minutes... | |
| 15:06 | pikurasa | Maybe we can review what we understand our goals for the weekend/week to be? |
| 15:06 | Tabs16 | so the custom synth object will be based on the synths we have to inculcate |
| 15:06 | ? | |
| 15:06 | i am not clear with the custo msynth | |
| 15:06 | object | |
| 15:07 | i mean it's nitty gritties | |
| 15:08 | walterbender | Tabs16, presumably in your widget you'll let the user set a bunch of parameters and effects that define a custom synth |
| 15:09 | pikurasa | Tabs16: for phaser and chorus, what is the unit for the "rate" value? For example, is it "ms" or is it "note value" or something else? |
| 15:09 | walterbender | we need to create some object from all of that which we can use with the synth code |
| 15:09 | Tabs16 | it is frequency pikurasa |
| 15:09 | okay walterbender | |
| 15:09 | pikurasa | Tabs16: a multiple of the frequency? |
| 15:10 | walterbender | Tabs16, eventually, maybe all of the synths can be described as instances of this object |
| 15:10 | Tabs16 | it is just frequency pikurasa |
| 15:11 | walterbender | in HZ presumably |
| 15:11 | Tabs16 | +1 |
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| 15:12 | pikurasa | Tabs16: walterbender I am trying rate for phaser and 0 seems to do nothing, 1 something, and 2 seems twice as intense as 1 |
| 15:12 | ...so I would have guessed a multiple of intensity of the effect... | |
| 15:12 | Tabs16 | walterbender: I was supposed to have a set-timbre clamp which will have the notes whose timbre needs to be changed |
| 15:13 | walterbender | pikurasa, https://tonejs.github.io/docs/#Phaser |
| 15:14 | pikurasa | walterbender: thanks, I will read it now |
| 15:14 | walterbender | needs to run... Tabs16 I will catch up with you later re your question |
| 15:15 | pikurasa, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phaser_(effect) | |
| 15:15 | Tabs16 | ok walterbender |
| 15:15 | pikurasa | Tabs16: please stay here for a sec |
| 15:15 | Tabs16 | yes pikurasa |
| 15:17 | pikurasa | Okay, I see... |
| 15:17 | When they say frequency, they mean | |
| 15:17 | "how frequent the [back and forth]" | |
| 15:17 | not Hz | |
| 15:18 | For the most part, we use "frequency" for a pitch, Hz | |
| 15:18 | It says "Frequency = The speed of the phasing." https://tonejs.github.io/docs/#Phaser | |
| 15:19 | Tabs16 | so basically it is the rate onyl? |
| 15:19 | walterbender has quit IRC | |
| 15:19 | pikurasa | I am not sure "rate" is the best word either... |
| 15:20 | "effect frequency", maybe | |
| 15:21 | Tabs16: Its frequency is in relation to what? | |
| 15:21 | Please tell me if you know. | |
| 15:21 | Tabs16 | what about "phasing speed"? |
| 15:21 | pikurasa | It seems independent to the length of note |
| 15:22 | Does it have a set time? 1 = 1 second, maybe | |
| 15:22 | Tabs16 | https://tonejs.github.io/docs/#types/Frequency the description may seem fine |
| 15:23 | pikurasa | seems more like 0.5 = 1 second |
| 15:23 | Tabs16: they use the word frequency differently here | |
| 15:23 | "A number is taken literally as the value in hertz." | |
| 15:23 | that is more how we are using it for MB | |
| 15:24 | maybe "factor" or "phase factor"? Or effect "factor"? | |
| 15:24 | Tabs16 | maybe, it is at whhat frequency the phaser should run |
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| 15:25 | pikurasa | Tabs16: No. It is not doing that. |
| 15:25 | The tone.js phaser "frequency" is independent of Hz. | |
| 15:26 | "rate" is not bad... more on the right track (I think I remember having this convo with Ayush) | |
| 15:26 | I think "rate factor" may be better | |
| 15:27 | Tabs16 | yup, even at the time of proposal, you suggested for rate |
| 15:28 | pikurasa | Tabs16: "frequency" for tremolo should be changed |
| 15:29 | Tabs16 | to ? |
| 15:29 | pikurasa | That is effecting the "rate", but in a unit of "note value" |
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| 15:29 | pikurasa | (which is very good) |
| 15:29 | Tabs16 | so rate is okay? |
| 15:30 | pikurasa | it is *okay*, but we have two kinds of rate now... please change to "rate" for now. Definitely needs to be documented so that users know what is different. |
| 15:32 | Tabs16: And please investigate what the phaser and chorus rate are in relationship to (i.e. a particular unit of time) This documentation does not seem to say. | |
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| 15:37 | Tabs16 | ok done |
| 15:38 | pikurasa | Tabs16: thanks. Did you make note of what the documentation might need to describe what each param does? |
| 15:39 | Tabs16 | i dint understand what you mean to say |
| 15:41 | pikurasa | It is important to document the following: 1) rate for tremolo is in the unit of "note value" |
| 15:42 | 2) rate for chorus is "The speed (rate) of the phasing." | |
| 15:42 | *phaser ^^ | |
| 15:43 | 3) rate for chorus is "The rate of the LFO (low frequency oscillator)." | |
| 15:44 | and then, we need to figure out what the latter two rates are in relation to | |
| 15:44 | the first one is in relation to tempo (i.e. changing the tempo affects the relative rate for tremolo) | |
| 15:46 | actually, it does not seem to. I thought it did... I thought that was what the point was... | |
| 15:47 | It does what I expect for vibrato... | |
| 15:47 | hold on a sec | |
| 15:50 | This is a different tremolo from what I wrote out designs for... | |
| 15:51 | This is fine to have, but at some point we would want the other tremolo | |
| 15:51 | I thought it was this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tremolo | |
| 15:51 | But what we have in MB now is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/[…]lectronic_effect) | |
| 15:52 | that was confusing b/c I was expecting something entirely different | |
| 15:52 | Tabs16: you still there? | |
| 15:52 | I am almost done. Thanks for patience. | |
| 15:52 | Tabs16 | i am still there pikurasa |
| 15:53 | this would all be documented in the guide? | |
| 15:53 | pikurasa | Tabs16: I am not "there", but I am "here" :p |
| 15:54 | Tabs16: We need some name for the current "tremolo" to disambiguate it from a future (traditional) "tremolo" | |
| 15:54 | What about "electronic tremolo"? | |
| 15:54 | Is that too long? | |
| 15:55 | Tabs16 | it seems too long for a name |
| 15:55 | pikurasa | elec-tremolo |
| 15:55 | Tabs16 | i am sorry pikurasa , was just caught up in something, my lil cousin fell down and got hurt |
| 15:55 | pikurasa | oh no! |
| 15:55 | Tabs16 | yup, elec-tremolo is good |
| 15:55 | pikurasa | If you need to help, go ahead! |
| 15:56 | Okay, elec-tremolo it is. | |
| 15:57 | So "rate" for 1) elec-tremolo, 2) phaser, and 3) chorus is rate (speed, frequency) of their respective effects | |
| 15:57 | Tabs16 | yes +1 |
| 15:58 | pikurasa | and we need to figure out what that rate is in relationship to. That is it! |
| 15:58 | Tabs16 | okay |
| 15:58 | I will document the necessary | |
| 15:59 | gtg urgently | |
| 15:59 | pikurasa | Really, the word "tremolo" caused a lot of confusion :p |
| 15:59 | okay Tabs16 bye thanks | |
| 15:59 | Tabs16 | bye bye pikurasa |
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