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#sugar-meeting, 2017-05-05

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18:58 walterbender hola todos
18:59 sverma <sverma!~sverma@2602:306:ccab:6470:cc79:6028:680a:27ef> has joined #sugar-meeting
19:00 ignacio hi
19:00 sverma Greetings!
19:01 walterbender any more SLOB members here?
19:01 CanoeBerry, ?
19:01 kaametza, ?
19:03 GrannieB <GrannieB!acfb21dd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.172.251.33.221> has joined #sugar-meeting
19:03 llaske <llaske!~chatzilla@90.43.182.201> has joined #sugar-meeting
19:03 walterbender ah... a quorum
19:03 llaske hi all,
19:03 walterbender #start-meeting
19:03 meeting Meeting started Fri May  5 19:03:37 2017 UTC. The chair is walterbender. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:03 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
19:03 samsongoddy <samsongoddy!294f0706@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.41.79.7.6> has joined #sugar-meeting
19:03 walterbender #topic GSoC/Outreachy
19:04 GrannieB The link in the email didn't work. Had to get in differently!
19:04 walterbender Just a quick update
19:04 #link https://summerofcode.withgoogl[…]5544862897143808/
19:04 GrannieB, ^^
19:04 samsongoddy hello
19:04 walterbender does that work?
19:04 9 GSoC students
19:05 GrannieB yep
19:05 llaske It's really awesome, I guess it's the best number of students we had
19:05 walterbender llaske, the most in quite a few years
19:05 We also have one Outreachy student
19:05 I am not sure what the link is for that one
19:06 maybe this:
19:06 #link https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreac[…]pted_Participants
19:07 llaske There is 2 students on this link
19:07 kaametza hi all, sorry I'm late
19:07 walterbender llaske, They list the overlap with GSoC for some reason
19:08 llaske okay
19:08 walterbender kaametza, just updating everyone on GSoC
19:08 ignacio How are you going to handle the two participants? It is the same project, right?
19:08 ibiam <ibiam!294f0706@gateway/web/freenode/ip.41.79.7.6> has joined #sugar-meeting
19:08 ignacio (About outreach)
19:08 walterbender FYI, we will have a group meeting of the GSoC participants every Monday in this channel at 13UTC
19:08 kaametza thx walterbender reading above
19:09 walterbender ignacio, we will morph Prachi's project
19:09 and individual mentor/mentee tieams will meet hopefully on a daily basis
19:09 In any case, we have a great set of projects
19:09 and alas, a few disappointed applicants who also had great propsoals
19:10 kaametza ignacio, walterbender lots of energy for Music Blocks!
19:10 samsongoddy yeah
19:10 walterbender and Sugarizer
19:10 and Sugar
19:10 kaametza an lots of good energy to all :D
19:10 llaske sure
19:10 walterbender a nice balance
19:10 let's hope we make good progress
19:11 kaametza overcomuniation seems to be a key component of sucessfull execution of projects
19:11 walterbender We'll make sure that the interns communicate regularly with the community
19:11 many (most) of the interns have been very active on IRC
19:11 but we need to reciprocate :)
19:12 kaametza would be nice to keep the propoer lists aware of the progress
19:12 so that everyone can help out
19:12 sugar-devel I mean
19:12 walterbender kaametza, I will be asking everyone to join sugar-devel , but also to share a blog to the general community
19:13 kaametza thx walterbender all learners will benefit
19:13 walterbender +1
19:13 always learns a lot during GSoC
19:14 GrannieB I'm interested in seeing the Music Blocks User Manual
19:14 walterbender GrannieB, me too...
19:14 GrannieB Also glad to see someone working on Sugar for the RPi
19:14 kaametza that makes us 3!
19:14 samsongoddy yeah that is nice too
19:14 walterbender the students have already done some great work
19:15 samsongoddy sorry i have been unavailable, been resting.
19:15 walterbender there was a user student and survey to determine what confuses people about the current manual
19:15 re RPi, lots of debugging/testing already
19:15 GrannieB Maybe communicating just with sugar-devel isn't such a good idea. Some of us who aren't on that list would want to see what they are doing
19:16 walterbender we will start off running
19:16 GrannieB, I will  be asking them to blog as well
19:16 kaametza GrannieB, I suggest you suscribe to sugar-devel it's sugar's main list
19:16 walterbender but it is important that they keep the devel community in a tight feedback loop
19:17 kaametza +1
19:18 walterbender shall we go to the next topic?
19:18 #topic mission statement
19:19 Just wanted to recap that the motion that GrannieB made that I submitted to SLOB failed due to lack of votes
19:19 3 in favor, 4 abstaining
19:19 This is the second email vote in a row where many votes were not cast
19:20 llaske :-(
19:20 samsongoddy Is it possible to raise it again?
19:20 kaametza I liked the mission proposed but proposed another
19:20 "Sugar Labs (r) is a community-managed project whose mission is to support a collection of free/libre software tools that facilitates learners to discover, create, reflect, translate, share and appropriate such tools in creative and sustainable manners".
19:20 sverma I've been super swamped with a research grant project at work...haven't kept up with motions. My apologies.
19:20 GrannieB Could you call for a revote? Some SLOBs may not have noticed that it was actually a motion.
19:20 walterbender It is of course everyone's prerogative to abstain, it would be really helpful to provide input to the discussion in any case.
19:20 llaske +1 GrannieB
19:20 kaametza walterbender, +1
19:20 GrannieB Use Walter's version ... it is better... more concise
19:20 kaametza I did provide feedback
19:21 but no feedback from my feedback
19:21 besides james
19:21 i reduce it from 2 sentences to 1
19:22 I detaled the sugar key concepts that were critical to our mission:
19:23 free/libre software + community + support
19:23 here it is again: "
19:23 "Sugar Labs (r) is a community-managed project whose mission is to support a collection of free/libre software tools that facilitates learners to discover, create, reflect, translate, share and appropriate such tools in creative and sustainable manners".
19:23 Motion: To adopt the fllowing mission statement:
19:23 "Sugar Labs (r) is a community-managed project whose mission is to support a collection of free/libre software tools that facilitates learners to discover, create, reflect, translate, share and appropriate such tools in creative and sustainable manners".
19:23 sverma based on what little I've been able to keep up with, it appears that we have a minor problem with the wordsmithing of statements, but a major problem with conflict resolution and consensus building.
19:24 GrannieB Here is Walter's version: Revise the Sugar Labs mission statement to "Sugar Labs is a volunteer-run project whose mission is to reach global learners and educators with a collection of tools that enable them to explore, discover, create, and reflect in their local language. Sugar Labs distributes these tools freely and encourages its users to appropriate them, taking ownership and responsibility for their learning."
19:24 kaametza GrannieB, we all read Walter version
19:24 walterbender, was already for and it didn't pass
19:24 GrannieB Some may not have
19:25 kaametza that's how our community takes decisiions
19:25 it's all well documented on the wiki
19:25 :D
19:26 GrannieB How about some SLOB member making a motion for a  revote?
19:26 walterbender sverma, an actions we should take regarding your observation?
19:26 sverma In reading these, my confusion is with: Is Sugarlabs a project or an organization?
19:26 llaske good point
19:26 samsongoddy nice one
19:27 kaametza sverma, we are a project from the SFC
19:27 still, we are also an "organization" in the general use of the word
19:28 we are a community-managed project
19:28 llaske I think organization is better
19:28 kaametza whose mission is to support a collection of free/libre software tools that facilitates learners to discover, create, reflect, translate, share
19:28 sverma kaametza: To me, SFC is simply a legal entity that we use to have legal and fiscal standing. SFC doesn't do anything else for Sugarlabs. They don't code, they don't design, they don't determine th edirection of the project. They are like a bank and law offices folded into one.
19:28 walterbender doesn't understand the distinction in this context
19:28 kaametza llaske, better or not is irrelevant
19:28 accuracy is vital for a mission
19:28 we are a project
19:29 sverma In my opinion, Sugarlabs is the organization, with Sugar as its project. SFC is is a bank.
19:29 walterbender I would recommend we adhere to the word choice that the SFC imposes upon us
19:29 llaske +1 sverma
19:29 kaametza +1 walterbender
19:30 we have an agreement with the FSC
19:30 llaske Ooch I'm afraid it's not today that will have a mission
19:30 kaametza llaske, one day the sun will shine :D
19:30 sverma :-)
19:30 GrannieB +1 for Sameer!
19:30 llaske I think SFC don't care about the word project or organization
19:31 kaametza hope the earth still rotates by then...
19:31 sverma I think we'll go through the motions of mission, etc. without anything relevant if we continue to muddy the structure of org, project, etc.
19:31 It will be garbage in, garbage out :-(
19:31 kaametza llaske, we should care about the worf because they make what we are
19:31 walterbender llaske, I beg to differ on your assertion
19:31 kaametza *words
19:31 walterbender they as very sensitive to these things
19:32 GrannieB Not another month! For heaven's sake, why not just vote on Walter's mission so we can move on to getting 4-5 goals next month and maybe even some objectives after that!
19:32 kaametza sverma, I really can't understand your point
19:32 llaske +1 GrannieB
19:32 kaametza GrannieB, please do read what I write
19:33 I proposed another motion, and it has many days to get a second
19:33 it was made by eamil
19:33 *email
19:33 GrannieB, please to participate check our protocols they are well documented on the wiki
19:34 samsongoddy What i think is that, we don't have time.
19:34 kaametza so, next topic?
19:34 samsongoddy We need to vote fast
19:34 so we can move ahead
19:34 walterbender kaametza, with all due respect, making a second motion while the first one was still active was not very helpful
19:34 samsongoddy it is that simple
19:34 kaametza walterbender, I didn't
19:34 I did the motion 3 days after the 7 days :D
19:34 it had already failed
19:34 samsongoddy walterbender, can we vote here?
19:35 walterbender samsongoddy, on what? I have not seen a motion seconded
19:35 llaske We spent one year to try to find two sentences for our mission !
19:36 samsongoddy the one you proposed
19:36 kaametza please do second it then, motion: To adopt the following motion:  whose mission is to support a collection of free/libre software tools that facilitates learners to discover, create, reflect, translate, share
19:37 sorry here it is again: Motion to adopt the following motion text: En Español:
19:37 "Sugar Labs es un proyecto gestionado por la comunidad, cuya misión es apoyar una colección de herramientas de software libre que facilita a los estudiantes descubrir, crear, reflejar, traducir, compartir y apropiarse de tales herramientas de maneras sostenibles y creativas".
19:37 in ENglisH: "Sugar Labs is a community-run project whose mission is to support a collection of free/libre software tools that facilitates learners to discover, create, reflect, translate, share and appropriate such tools in sustainable and creative manners".
19:38 llaske, I'm proposing one sentence, you don't like it?
19:38 GrannieB No good. Addresses only software. Too limiting
19:39 llaske +1 GrannieB
19:39 walterbender llaske, and what were your objections to the previous motion?
19:40 the one circulated by email?
19:40 kaametza GrannieB, free/libre software is all what Sugar labs is about
19:40 GrannieB Also fails to mention educators... they are the real key to getting the tools used
19:40 llaske I'm agree with your version but I think we're an organization, not a project.
19:40 kaametza GrannieB, learners and educators are the same this days
19:40 :DS
19:41 let's avoid that horrible distintion
19:41 sverma walterbender: FWIW, i didn't read your motion, but I'm ok with it, now that I've read it. The issue of org vs project semantics can be addressed separately.
19:41 kaametza sverma, I would also like an opion to my proposal
19:41 llaske Okay so let's second the motion so we'll have a mission
19:42 kaametza samsongoddy, you as well and of course ignacio who is not here today
19:42 GrannieB which mission???
19:42 sverma kaametza: I agree with GrannieB that it needs that second sentence on educators and learners.
19:42 samsongoddy we have two mission statements? which one?
19:42 kaametza sverma, let's agree to disagree on that then ;D
19:42 ignacio is here, he's just really quiet
19:42 GrannieB +1 sameer
19:43 kaametza here is the motion proposed: "Sugar Labs is a community-run project whose mission is to support a collection of free/libre software tools that facilitates learners to discover, create, reflect, translate, share and appropriate such tools in sustainable and creative manners".
19:43 walterbender did someone second kaametza 's motion?
19:43 CanoeBerry Apologies to all I was unable to keep up with email while away working with schools in rural Mexico with http://kidsoncomputers.org for much of the past 2 weeks, and am trying to catch up + understand now.
19:43 kaametza seems like llaske wanted to second?
19:43 GrannieB Revise the Sugar Labs mission statement to "Sugar Labs is a volunteer-run project whose mission is to reach global learners and educators with a collection of tools that enable them to explore, discover, create, and reflect in their local language. Sugar Labs distributes these tools freely and encourages its users to appropriate them, taking ownership and responsibility for their learning."
19:43 kaametza ignacio, I hope you had time to read it
19:44 llaske I'm agree to second the GrannieB motion
19:44 kaametza GrannieB, what are you doing? the board is trying to reach consensuss?
19:44 GrannieB Thank you lionel
19:44 kaametza GrannieB, you cant make motions
19:44 you are not an SLOB
19:45 ignacio Hey GrannieB, do I know you? (not being rude, I'm just not familiar with your nick :P)
19:45 GrannieB I believe any Sugar-Labs member can make a motion for consieration by the SLOB
19:45 sverma ignacio: GrannieB = Caryl Bigenho
19:45 ibiam i don't think she's making a motion she's jsut reminding us of the mission statement
19:45 ignacio Oh, awesome
19:46 walterbender we have a motion on the table. We need to deal with one at a time
19:47 if no one will second kaametza's motion then we can move on,
19:47 GrannieB Actually, all Sugar Labs members have been able to make motions. I have done it before as have others who were not members of SLOB
19:47 samsongoddy +1
19:49 walterbender I guess the motion is not going to be seconded.
19:49 samsongoddy Revise the Sugar Labs mission statement to "Sugar Labs is a volunteer-run project whose mission is to reach global learners and educators with a collection of tools that enable them to explore, discover, create, and reflect in their local language. Sugar Labs distributes these tools freely and encourages its users to appropriate them, taking owners
19:49 hip and responsibility for their learning."
19:49 I second this motion
19:50 sverma walterbender: let's move on.
19:50 walterbender samsongoddy, point of procedure: you cannot second your own motion.
19:50 llaske I second the samsongoddy motion
19:50 ignacio I get so lost during this meetings. So many things happen at once
19:51 I second samsongoddy's motion as well
19:51 walterbender shall we vote?
19:51 kaametza ignacio, we are lost here
19:51 -1
19:52 it's unaccurate
19:52 and it's not doable
19:52 and too long
19:52 we can't reach learners
19:52 please explain how you can do that?
19:53 walterbender any more votes?
19:53 GrannieB So, you have Samson, Ignacio, and Lionel on board so far. How about the rest of youl
19:54 This is the same as walter's motion
19:54 sverma What are we voting on?
19:54 kaametza sverma, please do pay attention to sugar labs important decisions :D
19:54 GrannieB Samson has re-submitted Walter's motion
19:55 sverma Did we close kaametza's motion?
19:55 GrannieB yes. Walter did.
19:55 kaametza sverma, it haven't been seconded
19:55 GrannieB It got no votes except for hers
19:55 OK. no second... same thing
19:55 kaametza GrannieB, you are confussing sverma
19:55 sverma ok. Just checking. So we have samsongoddy's vote on the floor now, yes?
19:56 samsongoddy yes
19:56 walterbender sverma, yes
19:56 sverma +1
19:56 walterbender +1
19:56 llaske Halleluia !
19:56 ibiam finally
19:57 samsongoddy we can now move on
19:57 walterbender llaske, are you going to vote?
19:57 GrannieB finally!
19:57 walterbender anyone else?
19:57 llaske +1
19:57 walterbender samsongoddy, you can vote on your motion
19:57 samsongoddy +1
19:57 walterbender looks like it passes
19:57 kaametza congrats walterbender hope we can fulfill
19:58 walterbender but it would be goof to hear from CanoeBerry and ignacio
19:58 kaametza next topic?
19:58 2017 elections
19:59 walterbender kaametza, I think the objectives (next step) will determine what gets done.
19:59 kaametza we need to define when are the next election going to be
19:59 ignacio +1 as I said before
19:59 kaametza i put the topic in todays agenda
19:59 walterbender ignacio, OK
19:59 vote passes 5 yes; 1 no; 1 abstain
19:59 #topic 2017 elections
19:59 kaametza, the floor is yours
20:00 kaametza so, according to the wiki documentation we should have elections every august...
20:00 I proposed to change then to december but it didn't get seconded
20:00 so what do you all think? I also wanted to ask everybodys opinion about reducing the board to 5 seats
20:01 so first decision when
20:01 anyone>
20:01 Shall we have elections on August?
20:02 We are just in time to call for candidates and prepare the timeline
20:02 ignacio I'm willing to leave SLOBs if someone with more dedication can take care of "the seat", since I haven't been that much active lately (--just saying--)
20:03 kaametza thx ignacio but that would be another subject
20:03 what we as election committe and Slobs need to decide is if we want to move the elections from August to Decmeber or not...
20:04 So that we can make the annuncement in the communiy and give enough time for candidates to prepare there proposals
20:05 walterbender I have no opinion on when we hold the elections
20:05 but we should stick to whatever we decide
20:05 kaametza so we shall follow wiki's documentation
20:06 samsongoddy has quit IRC
20:06 walterbender kaametza, It is fine to propose a change if there is some reason
20:06 kaametza walterbender, would you like to propose a change?
20:07 walterbender no
20:08 kaametza ok, so will coordinate with the comitte to propose a time line
20:08 thanks everyone
20:08 ibiam has quit IRC
20:09 GrannieB Gotta go test out my snorkle gear... see you all!
20:09 walterbender Any other topics for today?
20:10 thanks everyone
20:10 GrannieB Just one...
20:10 walterbender GrannieB, ...
20:10 GrannieB Before going on to objectives, usually goals come after a mission statement. Then specific objectives to meet those goals are proposed. Goals are long range … like for several years. Objectives are more short term… like a year or less. I sent out some goals based on a statement Walter made. He added a fifth one but someone went in and erased it all and I was only able to find the first four. I'll send them out again and
20:11 walterbender GrannieB, +1
20:11 I think we have a lot of progress on the goals (and objectives) already
20:11 hopefully we can get them defined quickly
20:12 and we will get timely feedback from SLOB :)
20:12 anyone else?
20:12 llaske no, thanks
20:12 walterbender OK.
20:12 sverma thx
20:12 icarito you know, if it is the case that the public can post motions, then let me make the motion and kaametza second it
20:13 walterbender See some of you at 13:00 on Monday :)
20:13 llaske yep
20:13 icarito we really have crappy rules
20:13 sverma has quit IRC
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20:13 GrannieB has quit IRC
20:13 walterbender icarito, It is my understanding, possibly wrong, that anyone can suggest a motion, but the formal motion should be made by a board member.
20:14 I am personally fine either way
20:14 icarito it's unclear who motioned what and seconded what
20:14 but I'm glad you're all happy ;-)
20:15 perhaps it's time to implement something like http://loomio.org/
20:17 walterbender icarito, +1
20:18 maybe we can get to the point where we don't need SLOB as an entity at all.
20:18 icarito maybe
20:19 walterbender icarito, It would be better (IMHO) if we could self-organize around topics and people interested in the topics.
20:20 but we should end this meeting and kick this idea around in email.
20:20 #end-meeting
20:20 meeting Meeting ended Fri May  5 20:20:30 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
20:20 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-05T19:03:37.html
20:20 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]17-05-05T19:03:37
20:27 walterbender has quit IRC
23:24 walterbender <walterbender!~walter@146-115-133-213.c3-0.nwt-ubr​1.sbo-nwt.ma.cable.rcn.com> has joined #sugar-meeting

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