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#sugar-meeting, 2017-02-03

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Time Nick Message
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18:59 walterbender any SLOB members here?
19:00 ignacio Hello
19:00 walterbender hi ignacio
19:00 samsongoddy Hello
19:01 hi, walter
19:02 andres_aguirre <andres_aguirre!be405d4a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.> has joined #sugar-meeting
19:02 pikurasa <pikurasa!~devin@> has joined #sugar-meeting
19:02 andres_aguirre hi!
19:03 CanoeBerry Hi, am on a very intermittent cellular connection overseas.
19:03 walterbender hi samsongoddy andres_aguirre
19:03 waiting for one more SLOB member
19:03 oh... we have a quorum
19:03 #start-meeting
19:03 meeting Meeting started Fri Feb  3 19:03:57 2017 UTC. The chair is walterbender. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:03 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
19:04 walterbender hello and welcome to Ignacio, Samson, and Laura
19:04 ohnx <ohnx!~ohnx@unaffiliated/ohnx> has joined #sugar-meeting
19:04 walterbender and thanks to JM, Claudia, and Tony for their service to SLOB
19:04 #topic GSoC
19:05 We have completed our application. Lionel and I are the administrators.
19:06 We need more projects though
19:06 ignacio When are accepted orgs announced?
19:06 walterbender I don't remember... in a few weeks I am guessing
19:06 ignacio We can take some from past year
19:06 walterbender only if they are relevant
19:07 ignacio I don't know what is "relevant" anymore, are we just focusing on JavaScript -- sugarizer stuff, or sugar it self?
19:07 walterbender With so few projects, I am guessing we will not get more than 1-2 slots
19:08 ignacio, Sugar, I hope
19:08 CanoeBerry Thx to Walter & Samson who updated http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Oversight_Board with 3 news members, and honoring 3 old members.
19:08 walterbender ignacio, maybe a project to finish up gtk3 and gst1.0 conversion?
19:08 samsongoddy GCI was fun
19:08 ignacio Is it summer worthy?
19:09 walterbender it would be if they really get all the core projects converted
19:09 it is a lot of busy work but important
19:09 we cannot count on gtk2 or gst0.1 support much longer
19:09 ignacio A fun project would be to make all gtk2 activities to work in newer sugar versions
19:10 walterbender ignacio, are there missing dependencies?
19:10 pikurasa MB for python could always be a project.
19:10 dzho <dzho!~dzho@unaffiliated/dzho> has joined #sugar-meeting
19:10 ignacio Hulahop as example
19:10 kaametza hello all
19:10 samsongoddy hello
19:11 kaametza thanks for the welcome walterbender
19:12 walterbender pikurasa, for Python and Csound
19:12 kaametza ignacio, I would also like to focus on a second version of the Sugar Network
19:12 it's documented as the Huayruro project
19:12 walterbender kaametza, please write up a project description
19:12 ignacio #link https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/[…]017#Project_Ideas
19:12 walterbender and add it to wiki.sl.o/go/GSoC/2017
19:12 elih <elih!~elih@ool-18b9572a.dyn.optonline.net> has joined #sugar-meeting
19:14 pikurasa walterbender: +1 Happy to help mentor python/Csound MB
19:15 walterbender pikurasa, great
19:15 any other thoughts re GSoC?
19:15 kaametza walterbender, can you repeat that second link please
19:15 ignacio We don't have to think about mentors yet, no?
19:16 walterbender #link https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Summer_of_Code/2017
19:16 Cerlyn <Cerlyn!~AndChat18@2607:fb90:409f:f96b:3cf8:f8a3:a2f4:4d4b> has joined #sugar-meeting
19:16 kaametza thx
19:17 walterbender ignacio, I assume that people proposing projects want to be mentors
19:18 kaametza walterbender, can you share a copy of the application?
19:18 walterbender kaametza, I can try... it is not very easy from their web interface.
19:19 pretty generic stuff
19:19 kaametza thanks in advance
19:20 I just have little experience with the submitting projects and would like to learn more
19:22 anyhow just if it is possible and not too much work :D
19:23 walterbender kaametza, those details can be negotiated in the process of accepting proposals
19:23 we have lots of opportunities to provide feedback to the students
19:23 TymonR <TymonR!~TymonR@wikimedia/Tymon-r> has joined #sugar-meeting
19:23 samsongoddy kaametza, how are the applications going?
19:23 TymonR good evening, sorry for being late
19:24 kaametza samsongoddy, I am not in actively working on any application for Sugar Labs these days...
19:24 samsongoddy Okay because i saw bunch of organisations to apply to.
19:27 kaametza samsongoddy, you interested in applying to any particular process?
19:27 walterbender kaametza, I send an email attachment with the text from our application
19:27 kaametza thx walterbender
19:29 samsongoddy There some arguments concerning which organisation we should apply to
19:29 ignacio samsongoddy, huh?
19:30 kaametza walterbender, hope we get as many slots as possible this year!
19:30 samsongoddy walterbender, is it possible to do art contest
19:30 pikurasa walterbender: ignacio on another topic (and briefly) I thought it was nice to have the dashboard from GCI saved and published, but we should have told mentors that it would be public. Students are sharing the link and when we were communicating with students I do not think anyone was under the impression that their communications would be made publicly available to the general public. So next time, let's warn people I think.
19:30 samsongoddy Ignacio, there were argument in applying to companies like Microsoft
19:31 walterbender samsongoddy, sure... an art project that advances Sugar Labs mission is fine
19:31 pikurasa, we should not have made those conversations public.
19:32 just the work itself
19:32 and the task list
19:32 ignacio I don't see what's the problem of sharing the conversation?
19:32 We are not hiding anything
19:32 walterbender ignacio, I am less concerned about the mentors, but the participants are minors and we need to both respect and protect their privacy
19:33 pikurasa ignacio: it may violate privacy policy for GCI, too. We should look into it.
19:34 ignacio I see, I will hide the comments, however students name should be ok? as seen in https://codein.withgoogle.com/[…]4569708569296896/ Google keeps the students name for each task
19:34 walterbender samsongoddy, I don't understand what your point about Microsoft is.
19:35 ignacio, hiding the comment thread is sufficient, I think
19:35 TymonR |voice out of SLOBs| just FYI, when I was submitting comments in task view there was a statement "Comment will be visible only to you and Sugar Labs"
19:36 walterbender ignacio, speaking of GCI, my 4-yr-old grandson loves Mastermind :)
19:36 (the two -column version)
19:36 ignacio > and Google
19:36 awesome, was the activity published in aslo?
19:36 samsongoddy There were some arguments about SugarLabs getting funds from Microsoft
19:36 walterbender samsongoddy, huh?
19:37 kaametza walterbender, any chance you can also share the Google contests privacy terms?
19:37 pikurasa TymonR: Thanks for the feedback. Expectations are important.
19:37 walterbender kaametza, I presume those are published by Google somewhere. I don't know where off the top of my head.
19:37 ohnx kaametza: https://developers.google.com/[…]ces/contest-rules doesn't mention anything about comments
19:37 Ibiam <Ibiam!294f0706@gateway/web/freenode/ip.> has joined #sugar-meeting
19:38 ohnx does mention the work that is produced, however, but that's mainly for copyright release to the org itself and not whether or not conversations will be public
19:38 walterbender ohnx, regardless, our default position should be to respect privacy
19:38 ohnx ya
19:38 some parents might also be disappointed
19:39 samsongoddy There are list of organisations that was set up by kaametza, about potential place on getting funds
19:39 walterbender has been the target of some angry parents in the past :P
19:39 samsongoddy, for GSoC?
19:40 samsongoddy Nope general sponsorship
19:40 walterbender can we wrap up the GSoC discussion?
19:40 anything else?
19:40 ignacio walterbender, really? angry parents about gci or what?
19:40 walterbender ignacio, mostly about the decision concerning GPWs
19:40 not this year
19:41 but in years past
19:41 kaametza any news from Lionel and Sameer?
19:41 pikurasa walterbender: +1 for default position being privacy respecting. This should be a time when kids can try things out and make mistakes without having to worry about what others think of their work and learning process.
19:41 walterbender some parents lobbying very aggressively for their children.
19:41 ignacio really? wow
19:42 walterbender ignacio, not your mom :)
19:42 ignacio :P
19:43 walterbender Shall we move on?
19:43 samsongoddy, you wanted to talk about fundraising?
19:43 samsongoddy Yes
19:43 walterbender #topic fundraising
19:43 the floor is yours
19:44 samsongoddy kaametza, can you point me to the list
19:44 kaametza I tried the 100&challange application last year, not sure yet if and how to contribute to a new process/convocatory
19:44 samsongoddy So that others can see
19:44 kaametza Dave and Caryl haven't reported any other application so far
19:45 would be nice to ask community if anyone interest in contributing to the Fundraising Community this year
19:46 samsongoddy Yeah i am willing on joining too
19:46 there were issues about Microsoft
19:46 kaametza, have that been settled
19:46 Ibiam hello everyone...sorry I'm late
19:47 kaametza samsongoddy, the document is open for collaboration at https://titanpad.com/SLFC
19:47 ohnx samsongoddy: were you saying that sugar should get funding from microsoft?
19:47 samsongoddy I didn't say that
19:48 that was the debate
19:48 kaametza CanoeBerry, talnkig about funds, is there any prliminar budget for 2017?
19:48 ohnx well first, you need to know if microsoft will sponsor sugar :)
19:48 after all, the environment is based off of linux
19:50 Ibiam did we apply for any?
19:50 samsongoddy I am working on a plan to create awareness for future donors
19:51 ohnx ask the linux foundation :)
19:51 CanoeBerry $ ledger -V  -s -S T -d  "T&l<=2" -f sugar.ledger bal '/^(Income|Expenses).*Sugar/'
19:51       $ -299,299.52  Income:Sugar
19:51        $ 218,316.12  Expenses:Sugar
19:51 --------------------
19:51        $ -80,983.40
19:52 kaametza Ibiam, I applied to the 100&Challange with the "Esperanza" projec but didn't made it to the second round :(
19:53 Not aware any other funds application for funds, walterbender CanoeBerry might confirm
19:53 Ibiam ooh...:(
19:53 we can always try again
19:53 samsongoddy CanoeBerry, any update with the documents
19:54 walterbender regarding sources of funds, we are obliged to only work on FOSS projects, but I don't think there is any such restriction on the sources of the funds.
19:54 That said, I think we need to consider the source of funding.
19:54 kaametza walterbender, any ideas for 2017?
19:54 walterbender I don't have any grants pending for Sugar right now (above and beyond GSoC).
19:55 I haven't had much bandwidth for fund raising of late.
19:55 but I hope to be able to generate some support for Sugar through the foundation associated with my college, once we get things off the ground.
19:56 probably 12 months out.
19:56 I did manage to raise some funds for Libre Learning last year.
19:56 Which is sympathetic to Sugar :)
19:58 I think we will have better luck if we raise money specific to a school or deployment.
19:59 samsongoddy Yes you are right
19:59 kaametza walterbender, +1 for specific objetives before raising funds
20:00 Ibiam it also creates room for better fund management
20:00 pikurasa I wouldn't mind a particular corporation funding free/libre if (and only if) they did not interfere with software freedom, student privacy, and educational goals.
20:00 Someone may also want to look into Mozilla grant
20:01 ohnx linux foundation also
20:02 kaametza pikurasa, you might be interested in helping out with the applications
20:03 andres_aguirre has quit IRC
20:03 pikurasa kaametza: sure. I have written successful small grant applications (less than $2000). Big ones, not yet, for some reason. But happy to help.
20:03 samsongoddy Your  welcome to follow us on instagram
20:03 @SugarLabsforall
20:05 kaametza we need to upgrade https://titanpad.com/SLFC ohnx maybe also have some time to give us a hand :D
20:05 ohnx cool is that using like OT?
20:06 kaametza ohnx, what is OT?
20:06 ohnx operational transformation
20:06 kaametza have no idea
20:06 :D
20:07 Ibiam can we get an idea of where funds are going
20:10 walterbender Ibiam, we spent about 5-6K on travel for TA last year
20:10 and probably 10K on translation
20:10 (mostly in Nigeria)
20:11 kaametza samsongoddy, please share your plan for creating awareness for donors with the community, others mught be able to help
20:12 ignacio off topic: Is something like this OK? > http://kuckuck.treehouse.su:50[…]6471347989381120/
20:12 samsongoddy I believe in social media, because i believe that is a main way to get sponsorship.
20:12 Awareness matters
20:12 kaametza you mean micro funding?
20:13 samsongoddy Not really
20:14 kaametza Sponsorship needs an agenda
20:14 samsongoddy Yes
20:14 Ibiam walterbender, our expenses are kinda high...
20:14 what are we spending them on
20:15 walterbender Ibiam, ???
20:15 Ibiam translations and travels can't amount to such
20:16 walterbender Ibiam, on the contrary... at least for travel, I managed to get others to pay for most of it so as not to tax the SL budget.
20:16 Ibiam, and those two items were specific to $ raised for those purposes
20:16 so they have not impacted general funds
20:17 kaametza travel these days is very expensive, specially for the environment :D
20:17 Ibiam then what are we spending the money on?
20:17 walterbender as far as I can recall, the only recent contributions to general funds have come from our participation in the various Google programs.
20:17 Ibiam, we need to buy a UPS
20:17 samsongoddy Re your marketing plan, walterbender
20:17 Ibiam for our servers?
20:17 kaametza walterbender, +1 for the UPS
20:18 walterbender and we needed to pay for an update to our trademark recently.
20:18 kaametza, I am still waiting for details from the MIT side what they have room for.
20:18 then I can submit a budget proposal
20:19 kaametza walterbender, great thx
20:19 walterbender samsongoddy, I have no marketing plan at the moment
20:19 but I am generally in favor of social media these days for marketing Sugar
20:20 Ibiam yeah it's a great strategy
20:20 samsongoddy Walter's 2016 Marketing Plan
20:20 Walter Bender offered this view for future marketing efforts:
20:20 What I would like from marketing is some mechanism for highlighting the powerful ideas in Sugar that seem to be lacking in most other systems so that even if a school decides to go with a different product/project, they put pressure on that project to provide tools, not apps, collaboration, transparency, self reflection and group critique, and responsibility on the shoulders of students and teachers to shape their own world.
20:20 A few observations/thoughts that may help us in focusing our marketing efforts:
20:20 (1) The primary source of push back in AU re Sugar was the browser. Schools had websites that they were interested in accessing that were not supported by Browse at the time. This is something we can turn around in the devel team and maybe something we need to surface in marketing: that Sugar is web/cloud enabled on top of all its other virtues. (I had been keeping the name "cloudberry" in reserve for this.) Ironically, at the time we added Suga
20:20 (2) The switch to Windows 10 by OLPC AU is a total capitulation to the "we don't have a clue as to what is of value in terms of pedagogy, so we'll make a deal with whomever will give us the best deal camp." Not sure what our response should/can be in such circumstances.
20:20 (3) There is a still strong interest in Sugar in Paraguay and some momentum to go national. We could try to ride that wave. We've been invited to come to Paraguay in October.
20:20 (4) I'm pushing hard in Chile... we'll see what happens.
20:20 (5) In UY, they are still using Sugar in primary schools (on Ubuntu). We should market in the Ubuntu space (I had had an offer from Ubuntu to let us do the equivalent of a Fedora Spin which we could follow up on).
20:20 (6) We should push on Red Hat to give us more exposure.
20:20 (7) Can we get a Sugarizer pilot going in a school to get a sense of what it means.
20:20 Projects
20:21 walterbender can I suggest that samsongoddy and kaametza prepare a more focused discussion re marketing and fundraising for our next meeting?
20:21 ignacio +1
20:21 walterbender re #7, seems Lionel has that now underway
20:21 kaametza walterbender, let's add CanoeBerry :D
20:21 samsongoddy Sounds cool to me
20:22 walterbender, i also need some documentation from SFC
20:22 ignacio (5) In UY, they are still using Sugar in primary schools (on Ubuntu). -- I can tell you that sugar is the least thing used in ubuntu (I know it comes installed by default on ceibal images), at least by people of my age
20:22 walterbender kaametza, sure.
20:22 ignacio *last
20:22 samsongoddy To work on our trademark on social media platform
20:22 kaametza walterbender, would like to follow on (3)
20:22 Ibiam ignacio, what do you suggest?
20:22 kaametza also (4)
20:23 Chile and Paraguay are subjects I can easily follow
20:23 walterbender ignacio, Sugar is targetting younger kids than you, but alas, Sugar usage in UY is not what it was.
20:23 kaametza walterbender, would you get me in the loop?
20:23 ignacio walterbender, they give Xo-4 now afaik, all students use android S:
20:24 So maybe we should focus on Android :/
20:24 Ibiam maybe...not a bad idea
20:24 ignacio -- Not just Sugarizer itself
20:24 samsongoddy Yeah
20:24 walterbender ignacio, It would be good to have a clear with from Sugar activities to Android apps.
20:24 samsongoddy Try to make independent app
20:24 walterbender Turtle runs on Android
20:24 Ibiam since incoporating android apps in sugarizer worked
20:24 kaametza ignacio, I would like a Sugar Network instance plugged to Sugarizer
20:25 Ibiam can we incoporate some activities in android...so you musn't open sugarizer to run any
20:25 walterbender but I essentially rewrote it from scratch to do that.
20:25 ignacio Yup, maybe we should "Port" the activities to Java == Android
20:25 and publish them in Android market to see how it goes
20:25 Ibiam good idea
20:26 kaametza ignacio, number (5) is also something I could co-follow with you...
20:26 ignacio SugarLabs will not get any money (I don't think we are going to include ads)
20:26 walterbender eo rewrote three of my Python activities for the web during GCI
20:26 ignacio I don't ilke webthat much..
20:26 web runs everywhere ik, but maybe writing native code is what we should try
20:26 walterbender I think it really limits us where our strengths are
20:27 I think we need to support the Python/Sugar/GTK deployments such that they can really leverage all the great stuff we have to offer.
20:27 and try to draw attention to what works well there
20:28 but it is difficult without a hardware partner
20:28 I really think RaspI is a good platform for us.
20:28 Sugar runs great on the RPi 3
20:29 We should market that to the maker community
20:29 anyway, /me needs to get going.
20:30 kaametza walterbender, using the libre version as recommneded by Jonas
20:30 we would love to test on field
20:30 Ibiam has quit IRC
20:30 ignacio I think RPI could be the replacement of the XO tbh, like its really small, all you need is a power source that can be a "power bank"
20:30 It's not that expensive AFAIK
20:31 walterbender ignacio, well... it depends
20:31 you need to add a monitor, keyboard and mouse
20:31 I don't really recommend it for a deployment in the traditional sense
20:31 Cerlyn has quit IRC
20:31 ignacio keyboard and mouse are really cheap, the problem is the monitor
20:32 walterbender but since there are lots of instances of RPi in schools, we could get in "through the back door"
20:32 ignacio, it is also expensive (at least relative to OLPC) in terms of power consumption
20:33 referring to the monitor again
20:33 needs to run.
20:33 shall we end the formal meeting now?
20:33 kaametza +1
20:34 walterbender thanks everyone for their input.
20:34 kaametza thanks everyone
20:34 walterbender back to a house full of sick kids
20:34 kaametza hope to see you all next time
20:34 walterbender #end-meeting
20:34 meeting Meeting ended Fri Feb  3 20:34:24 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
20:34 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-03T19:03:57.html
20:34 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]17-02-03T19:03:57
20:35 pikurasa thank you!
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21:09 ohnx #help
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