Sugar meeting

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16:05	pikurasa	hi hemant_kasat
16:05		Is Walter here?
16:09	hemant_kasat	no he is not
16:09		hello pikurasa
16:10	pikurasa	He is in other meeting, but will try to come on.
16:10		Please try this: https://jellrtc.com/harvardcopyx=musicblocks
16:10	hemant_kasat	ok !!
16:10	pikurasa	I think it should work.
16:11	hemant_kasat	it is not working , maybe there is some proxy issue
16:12	pikurasa	Proxy issue?
16:12		I see you.
16:12	hemant_kasat	college proxy issue
16:12		i am not able to see you
16:17	pikurasa	Please try again with Chromium or Chrome.
16:17	hemant_kasat	now i am on chrome
16:18	pikurasa	Okay, now go to same URL
16:18	hemant_kasat	not able see anything
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16:21	pikurasa	Hi walterbender
16:21	hemant_kasat	hi walterbender
16:22	walterbender	hi
16:23		hemant_kasat, how is save coming along?
16:23	pikurasa	hemant_kasat: Let's talk in this room.
16:24	hemant_kasat	in sugar-meeting only ??
16:24	pikurasa	Yes, please.
16:24	hemant_kasat	ok
16:24		i started on save
16:24	pikurasa	How far did you get?
16:24	hemant_kasat	did you checked undo also ??
16:25		just started :)
16:26	pikurasa	Okay, I see that undo works.
16:26	hemant_kasat	ok
16:26	pikurasa	hemant_kasat: The Rhythm Ruler should not need to be scrolled.
16:26	hemant_kasat	let me know any improvements to be made
16:27		pikurasa : at first it is not scrollable
16:27	pikurasa	Please widen the table so that scrolling is unnecessary.
16:28		It shouldn't have to be scrolled in most circumstances.
16:28		The point is that the user sees the proportions.
16:28	hemant_kasat	pikurasa : when we divide cells then we add the spacing so it is out of the table
16:28	pikurasa	Scrolling interferes with that.
16:28		So, have the table widen.
16:28	hemant_kasat	i will widen it
16:28	pikurasa	Whatever the solution is, the scrolling should be a last resort.
16:29		Maybe if the user divides by 100+ scrolling makes sense, but under normal circumstances (under 60, I think) no scrolling! You can do it! :)
16:30	hemant_kasat	ok !! , and for the notevalues , should it be present on the cell ??
16:30	pikurasa	hemant_kasat: Do you mean the number? The image? Or both?
16:31	hemant_kasat	i mean the number
16:31	pikurasa	I think the number should be visible. walterbender: What do you think?
16:32	walterbender	for now, yes
16:32		we can doll it up
16:32	pikurasa	hemant_kasat: Also, at the top, we should have the value for the whole of the ruler.
16:32	hemant_kasat	pikurasa , for example ??
16:33	pikurasa	So if the ruler represents a whole note (1), it should have the number "1" printed at top.
16:33		(I wrote this in an email before. Please ask these questions when you do not understand.)
16:34	hemant_kasat	ok !! it will be the argument of the rhythmruler block right ??
16:34	pikurasa	Yes. Also, that argument should be "1" by default.
16:34	walterbender	yes
16:34	hemant_kasat	ok i will see it
16:34	pikurasa	"32" is too small of a note value (too short a span of time)
16:35	walterbender	1 by default
16:35		but I have a different interpretation of the argument at this point
16:35	hemant_kasat	so if the argument is 2 we have 2 whole note in the ruler ?
16:35	walterbender	yes
16:35	pikurasa	walterbender: hemant_kasat: no
16:36	hemant_kasat	pikurasa , then ??
16:36	walterbender	pikurasa, what do you have in mind
16:37	pikurasa	If the argument is 0.5, then we have the equivalent of 2 whole notes. If we have an argument of 2, we have a half note.
16:37	walterbender	pikurasa: did you see my note last week about using the meter block?
16:37		I think this argument should be the number of measures
16:37	pikurasa	walterbender: Last I read about the meter block was discussing bar lines.
16:38	walterbender	pikurasa, we talked about using it in the rhythm ruler to determine what we are dividing
16:40	pikurasa	walterbender: This is different from my understanding.
16:40		walterbender: If this is what you meant, I misunderstood you.
16:41	walterbender	pikurasa, I am open to suggestions
16:41	pikurasa	hemant_kasat, walterbender: May I explain my rationale/vision?
16:41	walterbender	but it seems we need some mechanism for determining what it is we are dividing in some absolute measure
16:42		pikurasa, please proceed
16:42	hemant_kasat	pikurasa , yes please
16:43	pikurasa	So, rhythm is proportion. Rhythm is patterns. Rhythm also repeats the same patterns often.
16:43		Also, we have this abstract concept of a "whole" note. What is a "whole note"? Where did that name come from?
16:44		So, in our widget, I imagined that we start with a "whole"--a whole note.
16:44		(by default)
16:44		and that whole note is divided.
16:45		Any division to the "whole note" (by default) would perfectly fit the names handed down in music pedagogy...
16:45		Half a ruler is a "half note"
16:45		Divide into 4 and you get four "quarter notes"
16:46		Also, since music has much repetition rhythmically, we get a lot of bang for our buck
16:46		With just 2 or 3 rulers, we could have the rhythms we need for a tune.
16:46		(a tune that would be 8-16 measures long)
16:47		Mary had a little lamb: 4,4,4,4 \| 4,4,2 \| 4,4,2 \| 4,4,2 \| 4, 4, 4,4 \| 4,4,4,4 \| 4,4,4,4 \| 1
16:48		So that is just 3 rulers
16:48		(unique rulers)
16:48		once saved, that code could be put into a matrix, for example.
16:49		I also like the idea that a user could change the default "whole" to some other value.
16:49		They can see how the concept of proportion works on different scales.
16:49		I am done. Thanks.
16:50		Thoughts?
16:51	walterbender	I agree we want multiple rulers
16:51	hemant_kasat	so you mean 0.5 means now whole note being half of the previous ?
16:52		so we have two whole for 0.5 argument
16:52	walterbender	I guess what I struggle with is how we would do 4, 4, 4, \| 4, 2 \| 4, 4, 8, 8
16:52	pikurasa	hemant_kasat: All my numbers so far have been "note value" as we already have in Music Blocks.
16:52	walterbender	I think asking the user to input .67 is too difficult
16:53		pikurasa, what if like the way I did once before, we use a divide block to express a fraction
16:53	pikurasa	walterbender: I am listening.
16:53	walterbender	so when you grab a rhythm ruler block, we generate a:
16:53		rhythm ruler <-- 4 / 4
16:53		and the user could change it to 3 / 4
16:53		or whatever
16:54		so we use a fraction rather than a float
16:55	pikurasa	It is still possible to use fractions in our current implementation if we use them the same way we do for note value.
16:55	walterbender	yes.. possible
16:55		but not something the user would discover
16:55		so lets make it easy to discover
16:55	pikurasa	So, in your example, you would put 4/3, I think.
16:55		........
16:55	walterbender	pikurasa, OK
16:56	pikurasa	Let me put it this way...
16:56		I have much difficulty explaining to beginners what 4/4 or 3/4 actually means.
16:56		So as an intermediate step, I have found that explaining what a "whole" and "half" note is and the logic behind the naming.
16:57		That is more successful.
16:57		Because beginners still have to ask "what do you mean 3 quarters or 4 quarters--what is a quarter?"
16:57		If I present it as 3/4 or 4/4
16:58		So, as of late, I have been starting with the analogy of "a whole" (usually as a circle)
16:59		walterbender: Curious to hear your thoughts.
16:59		hemant_kasat: Any thoughts now? Do you understand how note value works in Music Blocks?
17:02	walterbender	pikurasa, 1/1 can be the default :)
17:03	hemant_kasat	pikurasa , but how we take the fractions as input ??
17:03	pikurasa	+1 :)
17:03	walterbender	hemant_kasat, I will take care of that. I'll send you a PR
17:03	hemant_kasat	walterbender , ok !! thanks !!
17:03	walterbender	pikurasa, I was thinking we could put the rhythm ruler on the matrix palette
17:04		pikurasa, did you see my suggestion re set drum blocks?
17:04		each one would define a separate row in the ruler
17:04		what do you think?
17:05	pikurasa	I do not think I saw the set drum blocks suggestion. Please describe.
17:06		define a separate row in the ruler--oh this is referring to timbre?
17:06		So that we have simultaneous layers?
17:06	walterbender	the idea is that rhythm and tuplet blocks would be put inside set drum blocks to define the initial setting of the ruler (or nothing for a blank ruler)
17:07		and each set drum would be a simultaneous layer
17:07		so you could overlay rhythms
17:07		the output would be a set of stacks with the blocks you'd put in the matrix
17:09	pikurasa	I see. I will think about it. Interesting idea.
17:09		The layering is important, for sure.
17:10		Having control of timbre is important, for sure.
17:10		It solves those two issues.
17:10	walterbender	plus it would be fun :)
17:10	pikurasa	Sure. :)
17:11	walterbender	needs to run
17:11	pikurasa	walterbender: Okay, thanks!
17:11	walterbender	hemant_kasat, I will make the 1/1 PR later today
17:11	hemant_kasat	ok !!
17:11	pikurasa	hemant_kasat: Please keep working on the save feature.
17:11	hemant_kasat	pikurasa : sure
17:12		i will mail if i had any doubts
17:12	pikurasa	hemant_kasat: Please. Please communicate daily.
17:12	hemant_kasat	pikurasa : sure !!
17:13	pikurasa	Okay, look forward to hearing from you soon. Bye!
17:14	hemant_kasat	bye !!
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#sugar-meeting, 2016-06-08