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#sugar-meeting, 2016-06-08

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Time Nick Message
07:59 samtoday <samtoday!~samtoday@124-171-72-79.dyn.iinet.net.au> has joined #sugar-meeting
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15:54 hemant_kasat <hemant_kasat!uid149360@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ixuvohvgfztxutnz> has joined #sugar-meeting
16:05 pikurasa <pikurasa!~Thunderbi@2601:184:4200:2904:a412:182c:1877:fcb2> has joined #sugar-meeting
16:05 pikurasa hi hemant_kasat
16:05 Is Walter here?
16:09 hemant_kasat no he is not
16:09 hello pikurasa
16:10 pikurasa He is in other meeting, but will try to come on.
16:10 Please try this: https://jellrtc.com/harvardcopyx=musicblocks
16:10 hemant_kasat ok !!
16:10 pikurasa I think it should work.
16:11 hemant_kasat it is not working , maybe there is some proxy issue
16:12 pikurasa Proxy issue?
16:12 I see you.
16:12 hemant_kasat college proxy issue
16:12 i am not able to see you
16:17 pikurasa Please try again with Chromium or Chrome.
16:17 hemant_kasat now i am on chrome
16:18 pikurasa Okay, now go to same URL
16:18 hemant_kasat not able see anything
16:20 walterbender <walterbender!~walter@> has joined #sugar-meeting
16:21 pikurasa Hi walterbender
16:21 hemant_kasat hi walterbender
16:22 walterbender hi
16:23 hemant_kasat, how is save coming along?
16:23 pikurasa hemant_kasat: Let's talk in this room.
16:24 hemant_kasat in sugar-meeting only ??
16:24 pikurasa Yes, please.
16:24 hemant_kasat ok
16:24 i started on save
16:24 pikurasa How far did you get?
16:24 hemant_kasat did you checked undo also ??
16:25 just started :)
16:26 pikurasa Okay, I see that undo works.
16:26 hemant_kasat ok
16:26 pikurasa hemant_kasat: The Rhythm Ruler should not need to be scrolled.
16:26 hemant_kasat let me know any  improvements to be made
16:27 pikurasa : at first it is not scrollable
16:27 pikurasa Please widen the table so that scrolling is unnecessary.
16:28 It shouldn't have to be scrolled in most circumstances.
16:28 The point is that the user sees the proportions.
16:28 hemant_kasat pikurasa : when we divide cells then we add the spacing so it is out of the table
16:28 pikurasa Scrolling interferes with that.
16:28 So, have the table widen.
16:28 hemant_kasat i will widen it
16:28 pikurasa Whatever the solution is, the scrolling should be a last resort.
16:29 Maybe if the user divides by 100+ scrolling makes sense, but under normal circumstances (under 60, I think) no scrolling! You can do it! :)
16:30 hemant_kasat ok !!  , and for the notevalues , should it be present on the cell ??
16:30 pikurasa hemant_kasat: Do you mean the number? The image? Or both?
16:31 hemant_kasat i mean the number
16:31 pikurasa I think the number should be visible. walterbender: What do you think?
16:32 walterbender for now, yes
16:32 we can doll it up
16:32 pikurasa hemant_kasat: Also, at the top, we should have the value for the whole of the ruler.
16:32 hemant_kasat pikurasa ,  for example ??
16:33 pikurasa So if the ruler represents a whole note (1), it should have the number "1" printed at top.
16:33 (I wrote this in an email before. Please ask these questions when you do not understand.)
16:34 hemant_kasat ok !! it will be the argument of the rhythmruler block right ??
16:34 pikurasa Yes. Also, that argument should be "1" by default.
16:34 walterbender yes
16:34 hemant_kasat ok  i will see it
16:34 pikurasa "32" is too small of a note value (too short a span of time)
16:35 walterbender 1 by default
16:35 but I have a different interpretation of the argument at this point
16:35 hemant_kasat so if the argument is 2 we have 2 whole note in the ruler ?
16:35 walterbender yes
16:35 pikurasa walterbender: hemant_kasat: no
16:36 hemant_kasat pikurasa , then ??
16:36 walterbender pikurasa, what do you have in mind
16:37 pikurasa If the argument is 0.5, then we have the equivalent of 2 whole notes. If we have an argument of 2, we have a half note.
16:37 walterbender pikurasa: did you see my note last week about using the meter block?
16:37 I think this argument should be the number of measures
16:37 pikurasa walterbender: Last I read about the meter block was discussing bar lines.
16:38 walterbender pikurasa, we talked about using it in the rhythm ruler to determine what we are dividing
16:40 pikurasa walterbender: This is different from my understanding.
16:40 walterbender: If this is what you meant, I misunderstood you.
16:41 walterbender pikurasa, I am open to suggestions
16:41 pikurasa hemant_kasat, walterbender: May I explain my rationale/vision?
16:41 walterbender but it seems we need some mechanism for determining what it is we are dividing in some absolute measure
16:42 pikurasa, please proceed
16:42 hemant_kasat pikurasa , yes please
16:43 pikurasa So, rhythm is proportion. Rhythm is patterns. Rhythm also repeats the same patterns often.
16:43 Also, we have this abstract concept of a "whole" note. What is a "whole note"? Where did that name come from?
16:44 So, in our widget, I imagined that we start with a "whole"--a whole note.
16:44 (by default)
16:44 and that whole note is divided.
16:45 Any division to the "whole note" (by default) would perfectly fit the names handed down in music pedagogy...
16:45 Half a ruler is a "half note"
16:45 Divide into 4 and you get four "quarter notes"
16:46 Also, since music has much repetition rhythmically, we get a lot of bang for our buck
16:46 With just 2 or 3 rulers, we could have the rhythms we need for a tune.
16:46 (a tune that would be 8-16 measures long)
16:47 Mary had a little lamb: 4,4,4,4 | 4,4,2 | 4,4,2 | 4,4,2 | 4, 4, 4,4 | 4,4,4,4 | 4,4,4,4 | 1
16:48 So that is just 3 rulers
16:48 (unique rulers)
16:48 once saved, that code could be put into a matrix, for example.
16:49 I also like the idea that a user could change the default "whole" to some other value.
16:49 They can see how the concept of proportion works on different scales.
16:49 I am done. Thanks.
16:50 Thoughts?
16:51 walterbender I agree we want multiple rulers
16:51 hemant_kasat so you mean 0.5 means now whole note being half of the previous ?
16:52 so we have two whole for 0.5 argument
16:52 walterbender I guess what I struggle with is how we would do 4, 4, 4, | 4, 2 | 4, 4, 8, 8
16:52 pikurasa hemant_kasat: All my numbers so far have been "note value" as we already have in Music Blocks.
16:52 walterbender I think asking the user to input .67 is too difficult
16:53 pikurasa, what if like the way I did once before, we use a divide block to express a fraction
16:53 pikurasa walterbender: I am listening.
16:53 walterbender so when you grab a rhythm ruler block, we generate a:
16:53 rhythm ruler <-- 4 / 4
16:53 and the user could change it to 3 / 4
16:53 or whatever
16:54 so we use a fraction rather than a float
16:55 pikurasa It is still possible to use fractions in our current implementation if we use them the same way we do for note value.
16:55 walterbender yes.. possible
16:55 but not something the user would discover
16:55 so lets make it easy to discover
16:55 pikurasa So, in your example, you would put 4/3, I think.
16:55 ........
16:55 walterbender pikurasa, OK
16:56 pikurasa Let me put it this way...
16:56 I have much difficulty explaining to beginners what 4/4 or 3/4 actually means.
16:56 So as an intermediate step, I have found that explaining what a "whole" and "half" note is and the logic behind the naming.
16:57 That is more successful.
16:57 Because beginners still have to ask "what do you mean 3 quarters or 4 quarters--what is a quarter?"
16:57 If I present it as 3/4 or 4/4
16:58 So, as of late, I have been starting with the analogy of "a whole" (usually as a circle)
16:59 walterbender: Curious to hear your thoughts.
16:59 hemant_kasat: Any thoughts now? Do you understand how note value works in Music Blocks?
17:02 walterbender pikurasa, 1/1 can be the default :)
17:03 hemant_kasat pikurasa , but how we take the fractions as input ??
17:03 pikurasa +1 :)
17:03 walterbender hemant_kasat, I will take care of that. I'll send you a PR
17:03 hemant_kasat walterbender ,  ok !! thanks !!
17:03 walterbender pikurasa, I was thinking we could put the rhythm ruler on the matrix palette
17:04 pikurasa, did you see my suggestion re set drum blocks?
17:04 each one would define a separate row in the ruler
17:04 what do you think?
17:05 pikurasa I do not think I saw the set drum blocks suggestion. Please describe.
17:06 define a separate row in the ruler--oh this is referring to timbre?
17:06 So that we have simultaneous layers?
17:06 walterbender the idea is that rhythm and tuplet blocks would be put inside set drum blocks to define the initial setting of the ruler (or nothing for a blank ruler)
17:07 and each set drum would be a simultaneous layer
17:07 so you could overlay rhythms
17:07 the output would be a set of stacks with the blocks you'd put in the matrix
17:09 pikurasa I see. I will think about it. Interesting idea.
17:09 The layering is important, for sure.
17:10 Having control of timbre is important, for sure.
17:10 It solves those two issues.
17:10 walterbender plus it would be fun :)
17:10 pikurasa Sure. :)
17:11 walterbender needs to run
17:11 pikurasa walterbender: Okay, thanks!
17:11 walterbender hemant_kasat, I will make the 1/1 PR later today
17:11 hemant_kasat ok !!
17:11 pikurasa hemant_kasat: Please keep working on the save feature.
17:11 hemant_kasat pikurasa : sure
17:12 i will mail if i had any doubts
17:12 pikurasa hemant_kasat: Please. Please communicate daily.
17:12 hemant_kasat pikurasa : sure !!
17:13 pikurasa Okay, look forward to hearing from you soon. Bye!
17:14 hemant_kasat bye !!
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