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#sugar-meeting, 2016-06-01

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16:05 walterbender pikurasa, hi
16:06 pikurasa hi
16:06 Is Hemant here?
16:06 walterbender pikurasa, have not seen him yet
16:06 pikurasa, FYI, I made a bunch of changes to the Guide yesterday
16:07 pikurasa Okay, I will check them out.
16:07 walterbender mostly a reorg... explained Notes and Pitches up front
16:07 then the matrix
16:07 And I added a terse section on the drum matrix
16:08 pikurasa Okay, I was thinking of doing a "Feature feature" on the musicblocks.net blog every week or so.
16:08 walterbender pikurasa, did you see that I use icons in the matrix now for drums?
16:08 works better in the format
16:08 but we need someone to design more icons for us
16:12 pikurasa ...hold on a second... abrowser is completely flaky with the code (Turning on other computer)
16:13 (I cannot create matrix successfully with Abrowser)
16:13 hemant_kasat <hemant_kasat!uid149360@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-owzhfiefqptkvztu> has joined #sugar-meeting
16:13 pikurasa Hi hemant_kasat
16:13 hemant_kasat hello
16:14 walterbender hemant_kasat, wanna give us an update?
16:14 hemant_kasat yes , i was trying out the scaling on the ruler , and the dissection functionality
16:15 any suggestions ??
16:17 pikurasa Is this a code question or a design question?
16:18 hemant_kasat pikurasa ,  you saw the ruler till now ,  any design suggestions are also welcome
16:19 pikurasa,  also I had a doubt, how should the scaling on the ruler should look like ?
16:21 walterbender hemant_kasat, to begin with the numbering should just be integers, but the unit should be something passed in as a parameter
16:21 then the user clicks to mark times along the ruler
16:22 hemant_kasat, in your code right now, you ignore everything inside the Rhythm Ruler clamp.
16:22 hemant_kasat walterbender , what can be the parameter values ??
16:22 pikurasa hemant_kasat: I think you are using very old code to start with... Do you know where to find Walter's latest code?
16:22 walterbender hemant_kasat, 32 or 16 or 8, etc.
16:23 a number passed an an argument to the block
16:23 that is sent to the ruler code to set the value of the increments in the ruler
16:23 hemant_kasat pikurasa , i refer to the pitchdrummatrix code walter did recently
16:24 walterbender hemant_kasat, eventually we want to read in rhythm blocks to mark points along the ruler
16:24 and the output is also rhythm blocks
16:24 you should also accept a meter block so you can mark bar lines on the ruler
16:25 by default, use 4/4
16:25 hemant_kasat walterbender ,  i added an argument for this to rhythmruler block and made it oneargblock just now and now i was trying the scaling
16:25 walterbender hemant_kasat, +1. I didn't see that when I looked at your code this morning
16:26 pikurasa ...okay, I am fetching your latest code now...
16:26 walterbender hemant_kasat, you need to keep a flag around to know that you are in the rhythm ruler clamp.
16:26 hemant_kasat walterbender , i did it just now , i will put it on github when i am done scaling
16:26 walterbender hemant_kasat, I suppose you could keep tabs on the rhythm blocks inside the clamp the same way that the matrix block does.
16:27 pikurasa hemant_kasat: When you refer to "scaling" do you mean changing the entire ruler to represent something other than "1"?
16:27 walterbender hemant_kasat, do you have a better feel for this ruler module you are using?
16:27 the graphics right now are very cramped
16:28 hemant_kasat pikurasa , i mean what should be the length and what should be division scale
16:28 walterbender and why do we care about displaying X,Y in the cursor?
16:28 better to show time.
16:28 hemant_kasat walterbender ,  we can disable X,Y i
16:29 walterbender hemant_kasat, can you just show integers in time units (x axis)?
16:29 hemant_kasat walterbender , i used the ruler module because i thought it would be less time consuming
16:29 walterbender hemant_kasat, I defer to you there.
16:30 hemant_kasat, does the ruler moduke support multiple instances of the widget?
16:30 I can imagine wanted to juxtapose multiple beat patterns
16:31 sort of like the polysound demo I was working on last week.
16:31 hemant_kasat what is juxtapose ?
16:31 pikurasa Okay, I found it... I do not see a way to dissect the ruler...
16:31 What do the 600 units represent?
16:31 hemant_kasat pikurasa , i haven't done that yet , i will do it soon
16:31 walterbender hemant_kasat, putting two rulers together (one above the other) so you can compare across them
16:32 hemant_kasat, seems you need to get the basic UI elements in place. Can you focus on that over the next 24 hours?
16:32 hemant_kasat pikurasa , for now it does not mean anything now , that why I was asking for the scaling
16:32 walterbender until we can lay down marks, we don't have much use for a ruler.
16:33 pikurasa hemant_kasat: I agree with Walter that the x, y cursor is unnecessary.
16:33 walterbender pikurasa, you think maybe the equivalent of two bars showing at any one time?
16:33 but have it scrollable to more?
16:34 pikurasa hemant_kasat: you and I tried to meet via video chat last time. Do you think that is possible? Was your connection too slow?
16:34 hemant_kasat pikurasa , yes my connection was too slow
16:34 pikurasa walterbender: Yes, the ruler can represent any length of time, but the default would be one "whole note value" ("1").
16:35 hemant_kasat: Do you have access to quicker Internet now?
16:35 hemant_kasat now i have
16:36 pikurasa Okay, Great!
16:37 walterbender hemant_kasat, If I were to do this, I 'd use a simple HTML table (one-dimensional) like we do with the matrix. And just make cells (like we do with the matrix)
16:38 an advantage of that approach is that it also will have some visual similarity with the other widgets
16:39 hemant_kasat walterbender , it is like that only but more complicated, in rhythm ruler i also added a table as i said in the mail ,  first row for buttons , second for ruler , third for the dissections
16:39 pikurasa https://meet.jit.si/MusicBlocks
16:41 walterbender pikurasa, I don't hear anything
16:42 pikurasa I hear someone...
16:42 hemant_kasat i also don't hear anything
16:44 walterbender I don't hear anyone and when I reconnected, it no longer found my microphone :P
16:44 hemant_kasat, I think you misunderstood my suggestion
16:45 I was suggesting replacing the ruler with a table
16:45 tall, narrow cells you can click
16:46 hemant_kasat, once you have UI working, would be nice to be able to "play" the rhythm using a drum sound
16:46 hemant_kasat sorry ,  you mean ruler is a row containing  a simple horizontable table
16:46 walterbender hemant_kasat, I mean the table is the ruler... you don't need the ruler code at all
16:47 and hemant_kasat: each drum block in the clamp would be an independent row in the ruler widget, so you could have multiple rulers going at once
16:47 would be nice
16:48 hemant_kasat i can try this
16:48 pikurasa I you go back to Jitsi, I have a screen share of Hemant's proposal.
16:48 (no sound needed)
16:48 walterbender pikurasa, OK
16:48 pikurasa (that is all I really wanted)
16:49 Can others see it?
16:49 hemant_kasat i am unable to see also
16:50 walterbender I see it
16:50 pikurasa Well, hemant_kasat you have it, so just open it up locally.
16:50 What you have here is good.
16:51 walterbender pikurasa, I few questions
16:51 pikurasa walterbender: Yes.
16:52 walterbender (1) how do you undo a subdivision?
16:52 hemant_kasat pikurasa, is it some shared document
16:52 walterbender (2) do we restrict the subdividions to POW2?
16:53 @ hemant_kasat you could implement that in a table, where you sibdivide cells
16:53 (3) do we only do one whole note worth or can we have more than one?
16:53 pikurasa (1)
16:54 walterbender (4) can we have multiple rhythms as multiple rows?
16:54 pikurasa (I wrote this all down before... looking again for it)
16:55 It is on the Jitsi now.
16:56 hemant_kasat: The file in the owncloud called "Rhythm-Rulers-Design.jpg
16:56 As for...
16:56 1. They can be combined (merged)
16:56 walterbender pikurasa, how?
16:57 pikurasa 2. We do not need to restrict to powers of two.
16:57 walterbender it is not clear from the sketch
16:57 pikurasa, I thnk we should restrict it to begin with...
16:57 pikurasa 3. the scale of the rhythm block itself is variable, but 1 by default (as I tried to say above)
16:57 walterbender or it will be difficult to control
16:57 pikurasa 4. Yes, I like that idea.
16:58 walterbender pikurasa, I think the implementation details are going to haunt us for a while.
16:58 we need to keep it simple
16:58 pikurasa 2. No restriction of powers of two would make tuplets...
16:59 walterbender pikurasa, we need a tuplet maker, but to click on a block to, for example, divide it exactly into thirds, is very difficult
16:59 so we need some additional affordances
16:59 pikurasa 1. As for merge, one could select two sectors and choose to merge them (by "right click" option or option within the widget... I leave that to your judgement)
17:00 walterbender: Difficult in what way? Visually?
17:00 walterbender pikurasa, hand-eye
17:01 try trisecting with paper and pencil
17:01 it is not easy
17:01 pikurasa walterbender: I am confused.
17:01 walterbender and to get it exact?
17:01 pikurasa, we have intervals we are dividing
17:01 the plan was to click in the interval to make a division
17:01 pikurasa walterbender: But the point is not to have it be visually perfect. It needs to be visually 99% accurate, but not perfect.
17:01 walterbender I am saying that to do that accurately is very difficult
17:02 unless we constrain the problem
17:02 pikurasa, either we have constraints or we don't
17:03 which is why I asked about POW
17:03 pikurasa hemant_kasat: It just needs to hold the number accurately, so that the number can be generated as turtle blocks code.
17:03 Imeant walterbender
17:03 ...
17:04 walterbender let me wait and see what hemant_kasat comes up with
17:04 maybe I am missing something obvious
17:04 pikurasa walterbender: Part of the benefit of the rhythm ruler idea is that one can see the "whole" being dissected into any number...
17:04 hemant_kasat walterbender ,  so what should i do should right now , like a set of tasks ??
17:05 pikurasa walterbender: So, I do not see how constraints would help...
17:05 walterbender hemant_kasat, make a ruler we can interactive with
17:05 pikurasa, I will try to make some sketches tonight
17:05 pikurasa walterbender: How does someone make a triplet?
17:06 walterbender pikurasa, I don't know... that is part of what I am asking
17:07 I could imagine a mode for clicking that had some predetermined number of intervals to divide the current interval into
17:07 set it to 2 and you get 1/2 1/2
17:07 set it to 3 and click on one of the 1/2s and you get 1/6 1/6 1/6 1/2
17:08 pikurasa walterbender: Sure, happy to see them. Hand drawing was the best I could do.  Yoshita's proposal seemed to hit the mark pretty well, too.
17:08 walterbender but I don't think trying to click 1/6th the way in is easy
17:09 pikurasa walterbender: I have Yoshita's proposal up on the Jitsi.
17:10 walterbender: So a "one-click" mode?
17:10 walterbender yes
17:10 that seems to be what she was proposing as well
17:10 pikurasa That is fine. I still think we need a way to do 3 and 5 etc.
17:11 Yoshita has the extra step where the user inputs a number to dissect the sector by.
17:11 walterbender pikurasa, it depends on what number is in the "divide by" box
17:11 pikurasa Which allows a user to put any number in.
17:11 walterbender pikurasa, by default it is 2
17:11 but the user can change it
17:11 pikurasa Yes, that is all fine.
17:11 walterbender or just select from a menu
17:11 pikurasa A default of 2 is fine.
17:12 walterbender I think that make it simpler
17:12 and less fuzzy in terms of where you click
17:12 you don't need to be 99% accurate any more
17:12 pikurasa I think that Yoshita is just better at SVG than me.
17:12 walterbender it is a UI decision
17:13 not about SVG
17:13 anyway, we should wrap things up
17:13 pikurasa What do you mean by "select from a menu"?
17:13 walterbender hemant_kasat, can you talk again tomorrow? I will be available
17:13 pikurasa Select the number from a menu?
17:13 walterbender pikurasa, a menu of divide by values
17:14 hemant_kasat walterbender ,  yes i can talk ,  time ??
17:14 walterbender same time again?
17:14 hemant_kasat i am fine with this timing
17:14 walterbender I would like to see a ruler we can click on by then
17:14 using whatever tool you want
17:14 OK
17:15 hemant_kasat ok
17:15 walterbender I am going offline for an hour while I hop on my bike
17:15 TTYL
17:15 pikurasa looking forward to it.
17:17 hemant_kasat walterbender , can you mail me the tasks and how you suggest them doing , it will be helpful
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17:44 pikurasa hemant_kasat: I think walter wants you to start by making a clickable rhythm ruler, so that when you click on it you are prompted to input a number to divide the ruler by (clicking anywhere on the ruler is fine)
17:45 hemant_kasat: Do you have Google Account? Maybe we can just meet with Google Hangouts next time?
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