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| 05:47 | klopsi-u3 | Seymour Hersh reported that Hillary Clinton approved shipping SARIN GAS from libya to syrian Al-Nusra terrorists, to kill 1300 civillians in a false-flag attack to be blamed on Assad. STOP THE PSYCHO VAMPIRE GRANDMA HILLARY CLINTON |
| 08:28 | https://off-guardian.org/2016/[…]to-syrian-rebels/ | |
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| 20:48 | davelab6 | hi yagarwal and elih |
| 20:49 | elih | hey all |
| 20:49 | davelab6 | elih: nice post on the blog |
| 20:49 | elih | The Raspberry Pi one? :) |
| 20:50 | davelab6 | what do you think about developing the html part in the blog repo branch? |
| 20:50 | so its live onlne | |
| 20:50 | yagarwal | hey, I was trying the same thing today and got stuck with the a issue in implementing it, I mailed Lasse and even filled this issue https://github.com/graphicore/ufoJS/issues/67 on his recommendation |
| 20:51 | elih | that could work, what I have now is just for mocking things up and testing out layout. |
| 20:52 | davelab6 | yagarwal: did you use the 0.9.0 release? |
| 20:53 | view-source:http://lib.ufojs.org/env/javas[…]/glif-renderer.js looks like its the latest release | |
| 20:53 | and http://lib.ufojs.org/env/glif-renderer.xhtml works | |
| 20:54 | elih: i think its better to use gh-pages for all our development | |
| 20:54 | elih: so everything is in one place | |
| 20:57 | elih: i am on a bit of a rampage with sugar activities strewn about github | |
| 20:57 | trying to get them all into the sugarlabs github org | |
| 20:57 | yagarwal | davelab6:release for what? |
| 20:57 | elih | I'll try to implement glif-renderer and see if I have the same problem. |
| 20:57 | davelab6 | yagarwal: did you use git HEAD? |
| 20:57 | yagarwal: or a release version of ufoJS? | |
| 20:57 | elih | ok dave, I'll check it into the gh-pages branch, I understand now. |
| 20:57 | yagarwal | davelab6: I cloned this repo https://github.com/graphicore/ufoJS |
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| 20:58 | davelab6 | yagarwal: okay i checked the commit history and https://github.com/graphicore/[…]de1e9b6596c802f25 is the only commit since the 0.9.0 release |
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| 20:58 | meeting | * ClaudiaU-es has joined |
| 20:58 | davelab6 | yagarwal: so it looks like a problem with the 0.9.0 release indeed :) |
| 20:59 | yagarwal | should I continue this or build upon Eli's code |
| 21:01 | I also tried implementing the Python/Gtk version and had some issue with the defcon libary and then this issue with the JS/HTML version.. not having a good day today | |
| 21:02 | elih | my code has no JS checked in yet, just html and css, but i'm working selecting glyphs and scrolling through them now. |
| 21:03 | yagarwal | elih: so you not importing the UFO files and drawing the glyphs? |
| 21:05 | elih | not yet, but let me put glyph-selecting on hold and try to get glif-renderer working. |
| 21:06 | davelab6 | yagarwal: dont worry |
| 21:06 | yagarwal: this is what the warm up period is for :) | |
| 21:06 | yagarwal: but if you dont post your code | |
| 21:07 | yagarwal: we cant review it :D | |
| 21:07 | yagarwal: please dont worry about posting WIP | |
| 21:07 | (if you are) | |
| 21:09 | yagarwal: so i dont konw if you should continue | |
| 21:09 | yagarwal: as i cant see it :) | |
| 21:09 | yagarwal: but if you want to drop it, thats all good | |
| 21:09 | yagarwal | davelab6: I don't have any code to upload more than a few import statements, a lines to import the font ufo file after which I couldn't figure out how to get the contour points for each glyph, after this I just need to draw them using GTK in a grid format |
| 21:09 | davelab6 | yagarwal: you could also try using the earlier 0.5.0 release |
| 21:10 | yagarwal: thats plenty to upload!! :D | |
| 21:13 | yagarwal: lasse replied on https://github.com/graphicore/ufoJS/issues/67 :D | |
| 21:16 | yagarwal | that is for Python/GTK version and then for the JS/HTML one I spend the whole day making the glif-renderer work on my machine.. so new code in that part.. I'll try a few more things on the Python/GTK one and then upload the code in an hour :P |
| 21:16 | *looking at Lasse's reply now | |
| 21:17 | davelab6 | yagarwal: okay great D |
| 21:17 | :D | |
| 21:17 | elih | awesome thanks :) |
| 21:17 | davelab6 | i would avoid the 0.5.0 release if you can tho |
| 21:17 | stick to git HEAD | |
| 21:17 | the require.js stuff is a bit unusual | |
| 21:17 | but its powerful | |
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| 21:19 | davelab6 | hi lasse |
| 21:19 | elih | hey lasse |
| 21:19 | davelab6 | pls /nick graphicore |
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| 21:29 | elih | I made a new folder on gh-pages called mockups, with my html5 mock in it. |
| 21:29 | the gtk mock or other html5 mocks should go in the same directory. | |
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| 21:32 | cmdr | Hi, im trying to become graphicore but it doesn't accept me, though nickserv identifies me |
| 21:33 | yagarwal has quit IRC | |
| 21:34 | davelab6 | cmdr: hmm |
| 21:34 | elih: sounds good | |
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| 21:36 | elih | yay yash is back, thanks for your help lasse |
| 21:37 | yagarwal | Hey, did lasse mention anything apart from the his reply on github? |
| 21:38 | cmdr | heh? |
| 21:38 | elih | not yet :) |
| 21:40 | yagarwal | cmdr: oh, just saw that you used ./serve instead of gulp, let me try that.. |
| 21:41 | cmdr is now known as graphic0re | |
| 21:42 | graphic0re | hehe 1337! |
| 21:43 | yagarwal: I'll still have to fix the tests though. | |
| 21:46 | so what is the purpose of our gathering? | |
| 21:48 | yagarwal | its working, both the tests and the renderer |
| 21:49 | turns out the whole issue was with using gulp-connect :P | |
| 21:49 | graphic0re | Ok thanks! Now the wrongly loading path module gets even more interesting |
| 21:50 | A "normal" http-server should serve this properly though, I wonder what the problem of gulp-connect is. | |
| 21:51 | I lately use usually the "http-server" command installed via npm install http-server | |
| 21:51 | it's a pretty fast and simple server | |
| 21:54 | elih | ok, good to know. We are still somewhat on the fence about doing this project with Python/gtk or html5/js. Any thoughts or advice GraphicC0re? |
| 21:55 | graphic0re | what is the nature of the project? I'm not initiated. |
| 21:55 | elih | I'm leaning towards HTML5/js... |
| 21:55 | yagarwal | here is a introduction: https://sugarlabs.github.io/edit-fonts-activity/ |
| 21:58 | short version: we are making a font editing activity for Sugar OS, our moto: Low floor No Ceiling ie. suitable for complete beginners yet powerful enough to make some actual fonts | |
| 21:59 | graphic0re | if you can at some point leave the html5 realm and run fonttools (maybe via fontmake) to turn the ufo into a otf, then html5 should be fine choice |
| 21:59 | also, if you already know (and like?) how to make a ui with web technology, this may be a fine choice. | |
| 22:01 | yagarwal | what about performance? |
| 22:01 | elih | yes, I have experience writing python scripts, but i'm finding gtk a bit tricky to work with... |
| 22:02 | I would like this to work on ARM single board computers, primarily the Raspberry Pi 3. | |
| 22:03 | graphic0re | yeah, I did something with gtk. if you need a custom tool, like a glyph editing canvas, you'll probably write all the handles etc. yourself |
| 22:03 | davelab6 | lol @ l33t |
| 22:04 | graphic0re: you think the metapolator ufo -> otf compiler isnt good enough? | |
| 22:04 | graphic0re | speed is a hard thing to say. |
| 22:05 | for the graphical stuff gtk may be faster, python is a bit slower than js | |
| 22:05 | davelab6 | elih: in your latest blog post you mention osbuild not for arm, but i dont know hwy :) the xo-4 is ARM |
| 22:05 | and xo-1.75 | |
| 22:05 | graphic0re | html5 comes with easy to use events etc. if you go with svg it may be slower with canvas it may be faster |
| 22:05 | davelab6 | so for 5-6 years sugar has been multi-arch |
| 22:06 | graphic0re | but both is porbably no real problem |
| 22:07 | davelab6 | i kind of feel like sugar pygtk3 is stronger than sugarizer |
| 22:07 | graphic0re | davelab6: when it comes to OT features there's a lot stuff missing |
| 22:07 | davelab6 | there are more sugar devs familiar with it |
| 22:07 | graphic0re: yeah :) | |
| 22:07 | graphic0re: but almost all XO kids are in latin america | |
| 22:07 | graphic0re | davelab6: didn't you say yourself the otfs are bad? |
| 22:07 | davelab6 | graphic0re: so OT features is out of scope for this GSOC |
| 22:08 | graphic0re: they arent as well engineered as fontmake, but they work well enough for prototypo | |
| 22:08 | graphic0re: so i think they are ok for kids | |
| 22:08 | its also possible we could do a '3rd way' | |
| 22:08 | with a python core | |
| 22:08 | and a web UI | |
| 22:09 | graphic0re | davelab6: certainly, the effect of making individual glyphs and suddenly being able to write something has some magic on it's own |
| 22:09 | davelab6 | like http://cdn.novacut.com/bus.png |
| 22:10 | graphic0re: we might even scope the core UI to all caps | |
| 22:10 | graphic0re: sugar doesnt have pyqt tho | |
| 22:10 | graphic0re: so we cant use defconQt :( | |
| 22:10 | graphic0re: that was my first though | |
| 22:10 | thought | |
| 22:11 | graphic0re | defcon is a nice thing to have as well |
| 22:12 | Actually, the MOM could be used instead. You don't have to use the CPS stuff ;-) | |
| 22:13 | yagarwal | davelab6: will Sugar support this '3rd way' and is there any current sugar activity doing this? |
| 22:14 | graphic0re: what is MOM? | |
| 22:15 | graphic0re | Metapolator Object Model |
| 22:16 | I wouldn't sleep well if you bet on it right now ;-) Though personally I would use it, because I know how to hack it. | |
| 22:16 | is pulling in a dependency like webkitgtk an option? http://webkitgtk.org/ | |
| 22:18 | yagarwal: defcon is a good starting point I think. It gives you change notifications for all of UFO and history management (undo/redo). | |
| 22:19 | elih | I have not looked at webkitgtk+ yet, thanks :) |
| 22:19 | graphic0re | The MOM can notify you of changes and there's quite some code for drawing etc, but no undo/redo and no coverage for all of ufo |
| 22:20 | i.e. changing fontinfo would be supported by defcon but not by MOM | |
| 22:21 | yagarwal | elih: should we ask the sugar-devel list if someone has thought of a Hybrid activity before? |
| 22:21 | elih | yes, good idea. |
| 22:21 | graphic0re | I can't judge if you need this kind of stuff and I don't know if the way defcon does it is good or bad. I'd probably do it differently. |
| 22:23 | elih | what is glyphr-studio using for the things the MOM handles? |
| 22:23 | graphic0re | It's own thing I guess. |
| 22:24 | elih | ok, i'll try to figure out what glyphr-studio uses tonight. |
| 22:25 | graphic0re | I think, if you really want to keep it easy, you don't want to go too deep into how-to-model-my-font land. |
| 22:27 | For a real world app, having some feedback fontinfo, as an example, is important. | |
| 22:27 | If you change there the UPM of your font, you want all the glyphs drawn in your app to change. | |
| 22:28 | I mean, you can't draw a glyph without knowing it's upm, so if that changes you need to be notified, so you can update. | |
| 22:28 | davelab6 | graphic0re: mom instead of ufojs? |
| 22:29 | graphic0re: sugar already uses webkitgtk | |
| 22:29 | graphic0re | davelab6: no, ufojs just reads the ufo, validates it, and ten you need to put the data somewhere. |
| 22:29 | MOM or your own Object Model is such a place | |
| 22:30 | davelab6 | elih: its own thing |
| 22:30 | elih: glyph v1 is all home grown | |
| 22:30 | elih: no external libs at all | |
| 22:30 | elih: its got a mapping to TTX | |
| 22:30 | elih: and thus to opentype.js | |
| 22:30 | graphic0re: there will be no UPM option, let along changing it | |
| 22:31 | graphic0re | These Objects can then be used in your editor to draw, change and so on |
| 22:31 | davelab6 | graphic0re: for kids it is S I M P L E |
| 22:31 | graphic0re | hehe :-) |
| 22:31 | davelab6 | graphic0re: literally you would enter family name and pick styles from a list |
| 22:31 | graphic0re | So you're maybe not in need for defcon after all. |
| 22:32 | davelab6 | i also think that the font editor is not much use with out a font manager for sugar |
| 22:32 | and it will be hard to get fonts made in a web based font editor into any other wbe based sugarizer activity | |
| 22:33 | on monday we discussed that yagarwal and elih would compare web vs gtk | |
| 22:33 | but i am still thinking that despite the hassle of learning GTK | |
| 22:33 | we will have a better product in 3 months with GTK | |
| 22:33 | with web, we can do the UI quickly | |
| 22:33 | but the libraries are less mature | |
| 22:33 | yagarwal | so we should make our own object model for Sugar :) |
| 22:33 | davelab6 | and the integratoin into other apps is much less mature |
| 22:34 | yagarwal | how difficult a task will that be, davelab6, graphicore any ideas? |
| 22:35 | graphic0re | I really can't judge what will yield the better app in the end. |
| 22:36 | The drawing tool will be the most demanding thing. | |
| 22:37 | let's say the "canvas". The rest, for a simple tool for kids, I think that's all doable. | |
| 22:38 | Hmm, you should have same preview thing as well. | |
| 22:40 | I'm saying the drawing tool will be demanding, because there are many directions you can go, how drawing should actually work. And making it cool for kids may add an extra layer of work. | |
| 22:41 | Preview is good if can either create and use fonts on the fly, or if you can use harfbuzz for shaping. | |
| 22:42 | harfbuzz, though, would also need a dummy font to output shaping. | |
| 22:43 | yagarwal | looking only at the drawing tool/canvas-- which way is it easier to implement Web UI or GTK? |
| 22:43 | graphic0re | things like a tabular selection and preview of glyphs, loading and saving font files etc. shouldn't be so hard. |
| 22:44 | I made something similar (but easier) in GTK with Cairo once. I think it can be done. | |
| 22:45 | You have to come up with your own way to detect if a handle is pulled and such. | |
| 22:46 | with canvas I never did it, but I'd expect the same thing to be needed, unless you use sone library that helps you there (d3.js ?) | |
| 22:46 | yagarwal | I found this on the sugar wiki http://www.tortall.net/mu/wiki/CairoTutorial-- I think this is directly relevant to us |
| 22:46 | graphic0re | With svg you can actually use normal dom elements and events |
| 22:49 | yagarwal | graphic0re: yeah, d3.js will be good, infact it was my first preference in my proposal, its also well documented and has a lot of examples |
| 22:51 | graphic0re | I must admit that I'm not a big friend of their API design. |
| 22:53 | yagarwal | oh, its 4am here, I'll have to leave now; I will make a blog post with my code and current progress first thing tomorrow/or today.:P |
| 22:53 | graphic0re | But if they make it easier for you to work with canvas, do it. |
| 22:54 | davelab6 | yagarwal: http://www.tortall.net/mu/wiki/CairoTutorial looks fine |
| 22:54 | graphic0re | Ok, it's 1am here. we're only 3 hours apart. |
| 22:54 | yagarwal | graphic0re:it was nice talking to you, thank you for input and hope if you join us in our next meeting tomorrow |
| 22:54 | davelab6 | thanks yagarwal |
| 22:54 | sleep well | |
| 22:55 | yagarwal: lets review whatever you have in the sync tomorrow | |
| 22:55 | graphic0re | sure, if I can help with something more concrete I'm happy :-) |
| 22:55 | yagarwal has quit IRC | |
| 22:55 | graphic0re is now known as graphicore | |
| 22:56 | graphicore | haha! I got my name back |
| 22:56 | davelab6 | elih: what do you think about what i said about the ecosystem? |
| 22:57 | elih | also a 1337 name :) |
| 22:57 | graphicore | but it lacks the 13375p34k |
| 22:58 | elih | I agree, so you are leaning towards python/webUI? |
| 23:03 | or just py/gtk, what do you mean by 'the ecosystem' sorry. | |
| 23:17 | graphicore | elih: This: "and the integratoin into other apps is much less mature"? |
| 23:24 | elih | yes, well we should make a firm decision tomorrow, I need to do some more research. The UI can be hacked to look nice, but having a responsive/fast drawing experience that works well on older XO's should be the number one goal. |
| 23:26 | I was also looking forward to diving into the Trufont/defcon code more -- I'm a RoboFont user looking to move to an all libre-software work flow. :) | |
| 23:33 | graphicore | Supposingly, when you're going with GTK you'll have a lot of closely related code to look at then. |
| 23:34 | speedwise, for the drawing experience, if there's no inherent flaw neither a web based solution nor gtk/cairo should be too slow | |
| 23:34 | it's not so much happening there after all. | |
| 23:40 | elih | right, well, I have to go eat dinner but it was nice to meet you and thanks for all your help! We'll keep you updated on what we learn. |
| 23:41 | elih has quit IRC | |
| 23:45 | davelab6 | yeah |
| 23:46 | by ecosystem i mean getting a font from the editor into another activity | |
| 23:46 | ok i gotta eat too | |
| 23:46 | thanks again lasse | |
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| 23:48 | graphicore has quit IRC |
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