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| 08:17 | kaametza | hi all |
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| 16:19 | llaske | That's me or the meeting is late ? |
| 16:25 | cjl | llaske: I think it is 1700 UTC http://www.timeanddate.com/cou[…]ril+1st&font=slab |
| 16:26 | llaske | waooo, miss that :-( |
| 16:27 | thanks | |
| 16:27 | cjl | np |
| 16:31 | llaske: sorry Friday, 1 April at 19:00 UTC | |
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| 18:10 | Quozl` | (time minus 50 minutes) |
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| 18:32 | Quozl` | (time minus 28 minutes) |
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| 18:56 | Quozl` | GrannieB: hello. |
| 18:56 | GrannieB | Hi James! |
| 18:57 | walterbender | any SLOB members here? |
| 18:58 | meeting | * Jose_Miguel-es has joined |
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| 18:58 | walterbender | Hola JM_ |
| 18:58 | meeting | <Jose_Miguel-es> Hello! |
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| 18:58 | walterbender | bonsoir llaske |
| 18:59 | llaske | Hi Walter :-) |
| 18:59 | walterbender | we need one more for our quorum |
| 18:59 | ClaudiaU_, CanoeBerry ??? | |
| 18:59 | llaske | Is it the usual time for the SLOB meeting ? |
| 18:59 | walterbender | llaske, yes |
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| 19:00 | llaske | hmmm with DST, it's not at all the same hour here than last month |
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| 19:01 | samsongoddy | Hello all |
| 19:01 | tony376 | hello |
| 19:01 | llaske | Hi Samson |
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| 19:01 | walterbender | OK. Let's get started |
| 19:01 | CanoeBerry | hi |
| 19:01 | walterbender | #startmeeting |
| 19:01 | meeting | Meeting started Fri Apr 1 19:01:31 2016 UTC. The chair is walterbender. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 19:01 | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting | |
| 19:01 | samsongoddy | Hello llaske |
| 19:01 | ElVerma | Hello! |
| 19:01 | walterbender | welcome everyone |
| 19:01 | lots to cover today | |
| 19:01 | Here is the agenda | |
| 19:01 | 1. Google Summer of Code status (Walter) -- time sensitive | |
| 19:01 | 2. I18n | |
| 19:01 | (a) Manager discussion (Tony) | |
| 19:01 | (b) Request from Edgar Quispe to attend Traducción e interpretación en las lenguas originarias del Perú meeting in Lima (Walter and CJL) -- time sensitive | |
| 19:01 | (c) Proposal from Samson Goddy re i18n in Nigeria (Walter and CJL) | |
| 19:01 | (d) Sugar Translation Projects Fund proposal (Laura) | |
| 19:02 | 3. Sugar Vision (Lionel) | |
| 19:02 | 4. Proposed rules for removal and replacement of SLOB members (Adam) | |
| 19:02 | 5. Treasurer position and process (Caryl) | |
| 19:02 | 6. Wiki Cleanup Party planning (Walter) | |
| 19:02 | #topic GSoC | |
| 19:02 | This is quick | |
| 19:02 | We have 62 applications | |
| 19:02 | samsongoddy | wow that huge |
| 19:02 | walterbender | Several of us have reviewed all of them and there are 23 very strong proposals |
| 19:02 | We need to review them in detail over the next week and submit a proposal to Google | |
| 19:02 | samsongoddy | can i help with that?? |
| 19:03 | walterbender | I am anticipating that we will only be able to offer internships to 25% |
| 19:03 | llaske | Not time to have a look on it. The tool have changed so we can't give a note each |
| 19:03 | may be we could share something to give evaluation | |
| 19:03 | walterbender | It is not too late to sign up as a mentor to become part of the review team |
| 19:03 | samsongoddy | okay |
| 19:04 | walterbender | llaske, davelab6 has made a google doc that is a bit easier to browse |
| 19:04 | it is in the email from earlier in the week | |
| 19:04 | llaske | ok, but miss a column for each mentor no ? |
| 19:04 | walterbender | llaske, we can add a column :) |
| 19:04 | davelab6 | yes :) |
| 19:05 | llaske | okay, so each mentor could give its evaluation in a column |
| 19:05 | walterbender | any questions re GSoC? |
| 19:05 | llaske | between 1 and 5 |
| 19:05 | walterbender | I brought it up first because it is time sensitive |
| 19:05 | llaske | okay |
| 19:05 | GrannieB | are there any mentorships for folks with limited coding experience but lots of documentation experience? Like me... |
| 19:06 | walterbender | GrannieB, there is a documentation aspect to all of the coding tasks |
| 19:07 | OK... we should jump into the big topic. | |
| 19:07 | #topic I18n | |
| 19:07 | tony376, the floor is yours | |
| 19:07 | davelab6 | GrannieB: +1 to walterbender, and also there are a few proposals to work on the website redesign so i hope that one of those makes the cut |
| 19:08 | kaametza | hello everybody |
| 19:08 | CanoeBerry | tony376: insane that you stayed up til 3am in the Philippines (?) but THX if so! |
| 19:08 | walterbender | The first subtopic is the i18n manager role |
| 19:09 | tony376 | I understand we need to provide a request to Conservancy for this position |
| 19:09 | kaametza | hope you guys understood had enough time to review the fund's motions ;D |
| 19:09 | walterbender | tony376, yes... we just need to define the role and the deliverables and they will write up a contract |
| 19:10 | kaametza | guys will be smart to keep them in logical order, and considering that the statement of work from the Trip Advisor grant states that "...we would use the Tripadvisor donation as the initial basis of a fund to help translation efforts...", it is logical to start with the fund related motions. |
| 19:10 | tony376 | I have sent out a draft to the localization committee and so far it seems accepted |
| 19:10 | walterbender | tony376, who is on that committee? |
| 19:10 | samsongoddy | But i thought that Chris was appointed |
| 19:10 | kaametza | so before asking the conservancy we should have a clear vision |
| 19:10 | tony376 | There are 11 I believe. I can get the names from the mailing list |
| 19:10 | walterbender | samsongoddy, we need to formalize things |
| 19:11 | samsongoddy | sure |
| 19:11 | but it seems like chris is not online | |
| 19:11 | kaametza | before asking anything from the conservancy^^ |
| 19:11 | cjl | samsongoddy: I'm here |
| 19:11 | kaametza | sorry |
| 19:11 | walterbender | tony376, I suggest that you distribute the proposal to SLOBs and CC the usual lists and then we can vote by email |
| 19:11 | samsongoddy | how are you doing?? |
| 19:11 | davelab6 | Quozl`: thanks for your tail spinning :) looking forward to llaske vision section of the meeting |
| 19:12 | llaske | :-) |
| 19:12 | tony376 | ok |
| 19:12 | samsongoddy | my health is killing me right now |
| 19:12 | walterbender | tony376, there is the position definition itself |
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| 19:12 | walterbender | and the proposal to appoint cjl |
| 19:12 | we should vote on both | |
| 19:13 | Claudia_ | Hello |
| 19:13 | CanoeBerry | Hi! |
| 19:13 | Claudia_ | my chat was frozen.. sorry |
| 19:13 | samsongoddy | Hi |
| 19:13 | meeting | <Jose_Miguel-es> Hello |
| 19:13 | tony376 | I think we need a motion to create the position and to provide the definition to the Conservancy |
| 19:14 | CanoeBerry | tony376: plz outline the position, thanks. |
| 19:14 | walterbender | tony376, without the details it is hard to vote on the motion |
| 19:14 | tony376 | I like the title Translation Manager |
| 19:15 | CanoeBerry | Works for me. Roles? |
| 19:15 | walterbender | do you have bullet points fot the role itself? |
| 19:15 | tony376 | L10n leadership tasks: Monitoring new activity development and advocating for i18n of code (gettext formatting for Python activities, other similar methods for JavaScript work). Setting up new languages for availability in Pootle. Act as Sugar Labs i18n coordinator for oversight of performance on contracts to develop L10n projects approved by SLOBs. Reaching upstream to create the glibc locales for new languages required for them |
| 19:17 | The list is a bit scrambled. But these are the bullets on the wiki page we set up to document the position | |
| 19:17 | kaametza | @Tony isn't "oversight of performance on contracts to develop L10n projects" too much responsability for a single person? |
| 19:17 | walterbender | tony376, looks good to me |
| 19:17 | tony376 | How many people does it take? |
| 19:17 | cjl | kaametza: Has not been in the past |
| 19:18 | kaametza | in |
| 19:18 | Proposed New Motion: | |
| 19:18 | The present SugarLabs Oversight board appoints the current Translation's Committee, with the full responsability of reviewing, upgrading, approving and overseeing Sugar Translation Projects and Proposals made by any interested party, with special attention to Native Languages communities. | |
| 19:18 | samsongoddy | I already said that i will like to work with the Translations manager |
| 19:18 | walterbender | kaametza, The manager can ask for help but has the ultimate responsibity |
| 19:18 | Claudia_ | I am hoping this role with facilitate that the work happens, but it would also make possible coordination with the community and communication with the larger organization/board |
| 19:18 | tony376 | Subject to the board |
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| 19:18 | kaametza | there is Committe that can do a better job than any single individual |
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| 19:19 | Quozl` | the board seeks to delegate some responsibility. |
| 19:19 | GrannieB | This is not the time for a new motion |
| 19:19 | samsongoddy | kaametza, i understand your point |
| 19:19 | but i think it should be giving to one person | |
| 19:19 | kaametza | samsongoddy, thanks |
| 19:19 | CanoeBerry | tony376: there is behind-the-scenes "engineering" leadership and there is direct "community" leadership. Both matter. You've focused on the former. What room is there for the latter? (perhaps blogging/reporting on a regularly schedule, or any other kinds of "activist" cultivation impactful translation communities we yet be aware of, volunteer or paid?) |
| 19:19 | samsongoddy | then others can help |
| 19:19 | kaametza | yours is an ecxample of a work made in colaboration ;D |
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| 19:20 | tony376 | I think you are looking at a broader problem. We now have several mailing lists including one on localization. |
| 19:21 | walterbender | In my opinion, the manager can distribute the work in whatever manner he or she feels is suitable |
| 19:21 | kaametza | samsongoddy, Tony and Caryl are co-founders of the translation Committe |
| 19:21 | there are 13 of us, Tony can you please confirm? | |
| 19:21 | walterbender | to Adam's point there is a reporting requirement which must be in the contract |
| 19:22 | GrannieB | Does Tony have a motion already under consideration? Could it be voted on? You will run out of time if you don't move along |
| 19:22 | tony376 | I am not good at multitasking, to get the list I won't be able to follow the thread here. |
| 19:22 | walterbender | kaametza, we have had a i18n team for 8+ years now |
| 19:23 | kaametza | walterbender, I know still I'm taking about the Committe, those are diferent concepts |
| 19:23 | samsongoddy | i haven't heard from martin since |
| 19:23 | kaametza | Tehe Committe is an organizartional figure |
| 19:23 | diferent form the team | |
| 19:23 | walterbender | we are dancing in circles |
| 19:23 | CanoeBerry | tony376: will you publish the role/summary you mentioned this wkd, to be voted on within the 7 days that follow per Walter's suggestion? |
| 19:24 | GrannieB | Samson and I both have motions on the agenda and have to leave at the hour |
| 19:24 | walterbender | the point is do we agree to have a manager |
| 19:24 | GrannieB | vote |
| 19:24 | walterbender | the manager will organize from there |
| 19:24 | tony376 | Yes - in essence it is already posted on the wiki page |
| 19:24 | CanoeBerry | URL? |
| 19:25 | tony376 | http://www.sugarlabs.org/go/Tranlation_Proposal |
| 19:26 | kaametza | the Manager must serve the best interests of the Sugar Translation Project. |
| 19:26 | Fund, sorry | |
| 19:26 | tony376 | sorry, wiki.sugarlabs.org |
| 19:26 | CanoeBerry | tony376: what is the proposed salary structure? |
| 19:26 | ElVerma | https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/[…]nslation_Proposal |
| 19:26 | tony376 | You had proposed $1000 per month |
| 19:27 | samsongoddy | sounds cool |
| 19:27 | kaametza | you guys I'm feeling ignored again :( |
| 19:27 | GrannieB | who proposed $1000/mo? |
| 19:27 | tony376 | Canoe Berry |
| 19:28 | walterbender | #link https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/[…]nslation_Proposal |
| 19:28 | llaske | It's lot of money for an organisation like SugarLabs |
| 19:28 | kaametza | before appointing anybody for anything, the Board should create the translation fund |
| 19:28 | GrannieB | The url above goes to a page without any info on it. Is there another? |
| 19:29 | samsongoddy | i will be logging out exactly 9pm, i am in a cyber cafe |
| 19:29 | tony376 | http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Translation_Proposal |
| 19:29 | kaametza | plese take a look at the motions at the pad Purpose |
| 19:29 | walterbender | GrannieB, where do you see the reference to $1000? |
| 19:29 | kaametza | The purpose of the fund is to serve as a source of capital for any interested Sugar Labs member to be able to complete and/or manage one or more Sugar Translation Project. |
| 19:29 | walterbender | kaametza, please wait. |
| 19:29 | kaametza, we are discussing the manager role | |
| 19:30 | GrannieB | I suggest you need to move forward on the Tony's general motion and the question of whether you will even have a Translation Manager… vote on it and go on with the other items in the agenda |
| 19:30 | CanoeBerry | tony376: what's the proposed frequency of checkpoints (presumably reporting to SL Board, with high-level goals refined by SLOBS a couple/few times per year?) |
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| 19:30 | llaske | You know my position on this: putting money on localization is interested only if it's a way to increase the community |
| 19:30 | tony376 | I would like a monthly report similar to Walter's. The board can review progress at any meeting. |
| 19:30 | GrannieB | walter… look above at the entries at 12:26 |
| 19:30 | walterbender | tony376, +1 |
| 19:30 | kaametza | sorry walter, I exmplained on the last email |
| 19:31 | I do agree with the Manager position, in general terms | |
| 19:31 | Claudia_ | In agreement with the monthly reports |
| 19:31 | kaametza | but you sneed to understand that by contract you need to create the fund first |
| 19:32 | CanoeBerry | tony376: monthly reports are a heartbeat, but i believe that such a contract needs to half teeth--with quarterly checkpoints pegged to actual calendar months, or every 6 months. |
| 19:32 | cjl | quarterly is not unreasonable. |
| 19:32 | walterbender | CanoeBerry, I think quarterly goals |
| 19:32 | tony376 | I strongly disagree. Much of what the manager must do is manage. Much of the tasks will be ongoing. |
| 19:32 | CanoeBerry | Works for me. |
| 19:32 | walterbender | but monthly updates |
| 19:32 | GrannieB | I also agree with lionel's position on this. But, I don't get to vote! |
| 19:33 | llaske | Thanks GrannieB :-) |
| 19:33 | GrannieB | +1 to Tony |
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| 19:33 | kaametza | when you wrote the statement of work from the Trip Advisor grant, you made a commitment in the name of SL to create such fund |
| 19:34 | samsongoddy_ | hmm |
| 19:34 | davelab6 | i agree with llaske and GrannieB |
| 19:34 | CanoeBerry | Quaterly or twice a year report keep community honesty in the loop at all levels. Nobody likes writing a report a couple times per year until it's done... |
| 19:34 | walterbender | kaametza, please let us finish one discussion first |
| 19:34 | llaske | but we need to have a good strategy to use the Trip Advisor money |
| 19:34 | kaametza | the distribution of funds then needs to be made by a fund |
| 19:34 | not by the sLOBS | |
| 19:34 | llaske | not translate in any language |
| 19:34 | kaametza | llaske, we need vision are clear rules |
| 19:34 | GrannieB | +1 |
| 19:34 | cjl | llaske: not pay for translate in any lang. |
| 19:35 | GrannieB | that +1 was to llaske |
| 19:35 | ElVerma | I agree with llaske. The translation is an end to a much larger goal. |
| 19:35 | kaametza | for example Purpose |
| 19:35 | The purpose of the fund is to serve as a source of capital for any interested Sugar Labs member to be able to complete and/or manage one or more Sugar Translation Project. | |
| 19:35 | Proposed New Motion: | |
| 19:35 | Requests for funds: will be presented to the Translation's Committe, in writing, with cc to the IAEP mailing list and the Localization maiiling list, at least 72 hours in advance of the monthly scheduled Translation committe meeting. | |
| 19:35 | walterbender | llaske, the bottom line is that Chris has a strong track record regarding both identifying needs for infrastructure and local language development |
| 19:35 | GrannieB | +1 to llaske again! |
| 19:35 | llaske | there is few dialect here in France (Breton, Corsica, Catalunya, ...) we could translate Sugar into it but you could be sure that it will not increase the Sugar usage in France |
| 19:35 | walterbender | kaametza, please let us finish |
| 19:36 | samsongoddy_ | +1 to llaske |
| 19:36 | GrannieB | Not the time for new motions. they are supposed to be put in in advance of the meeting |
| 19:36 | cjl | llaske: no proposal to pay for those L10ns, bu twe should allow them in Pootle. |
| 19:36 | walterbender | llaske, I don't understand the point you are making |
| 19:36 | llaske | I'm agree cjl |
| 19:37 | walterbender | llaske, no one is suggesting we operate without making some investigation of value |
| 19:37 | tony376 | We have a clearly defined position with a substantial workload. We are fortunate to have an experience person to fill the position. We should get on with it. |
| 19:37 | meeting | <Jose_Miguel-es> To ask bottoms for translation would have to have a document that base it. Translate in function of an impact expected. |
| 19:37 | llaske | +1 Jose_Miguel-es |
| 19:37 | walterbender | tony376, +1 |
| 19:37 | Claudia_ | +1 JoseMiguel |
| 19:37 | kaametza | Hola Jose Miguel |
| 19:37 | CanoeBerry | tony376: we need a role desribed in writing, having checkpoints with teeth |
| 19:37 | walterbender | I |
| 19:38 | I'd like to make the following suggestion | |
| 19:38 | (1) Tony wirte up a succinct description of the role, including feedback about reporting from today's meeting | |
| 19:38 | (2) he circulate this ASAP and SLOB can vote by email | |
| 19:39 | kaametza | walterbender, +1 |
| 19:39 | GrannieB | Hey board members… why doesn't someone move the motion be "tabled" for the next meeting and meanwhile discuss and refine it for the next meeting… vote on tabling! |
| 19:39 | walterbender | I don't think we have a proper motion today |
| 19:39 | davelab6 | llaske: if there is a i18n manager role for a provisional period (say 6 months, so $6k of spending SL funds) then they would be well placed to detail strategy options and execute the better ones |
| 19:39 | walterbender | or time to finishing in this meeting |
| 19:39 | kaametza | I do |
| 19:39 | <walterbender> I'd like to make the following suggestion | |
| 19:39 | <walterbender> (1) Tony wirte up a succinct description of the role, including feedback about reporting from today's meeting | |
| 19:39 | <walterbender> (2) he circulate this ASAP and SLOB can vote by email | |
| 19:39 | +1 lets continue please | |
| 19:39 | GrannieB | +1 walter |
| 19:39 | tony376 | OK |
| 19:40 | llaske | Ok |
| 19:40 | walterbender | OK |
| 19:40 | CanoeBerry | +1 |
| 19:40 | tony376 | Walter I meant ok with doing the writeup |
| 19:40 | Claudia_ | +1 |
| 19:40 | meeting | <Jose_Miguel-es> +1 |
| 19:40 | GrannieB | T-20 min |
| 19:40 | walterbender | Without the manager role in place, I don't think we can make decisions on the other i18n topics as they are all dependencies |
| 19:40 | kaametza | GrannieB, please help me with the 3 motions |
| 19:41 | I'm asking you beacause you inspired me to continue in this journey when you cocreated the Sugar Translations Committe | |
| 19:41 | : | |
| 19:41 | http://pad.publiclab.org/p/SPTF | |
| 19:42 | walterbender | kaametza, we cannot possibly vote on your motion without first resolving the manager role |
| 19:42 | Claudia__ <Claudia__!~webchatrev-18-85-44-69.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting |
|
| 19:42 | GrannieB | kaametza, I'm worried about my motion for the Treasurer position which can simplify a lot of these discussions |
| 19:43 | walterbender | but that said, I don't agree with the proposal to retroactively reallocate the funds I raised to a committee I have no window into. |
| 19:43 | It would irresponsible as the project PI | |
| 19:43 | samsongoddy_ | okay |
| 19:43 | walterbender | I think we need to move on to the next topic |
| 19:44 | Quozl` | yeah, don't let walter be irresponsible. ;-) |
| 19:44 | kaametza | so sha we start the vote |
| 19:44 | ? | |
| 19:45 | Quozl` | @chair, is the meeting moving to item 3 of the agenda or item 2.d? |
| 19:45 | walterbender | kaametza, did you listen to anything I jsut said? |
| 19:45 | CanoeBerry | T-15 min |
| 19:45 | walterbender | #topic Sugar Vision |
| 19:45 | Claudia_ has quit IRC | |
| 19:45 | Quozl` | @chair, thanks. |
| 19:45 | llaske | It will be quick |
| 19:45 | As I've proposed at the last SLOB meeting, I've worked on a proposal vision for SugarLabs. The idea is to write few lines that we could all share and that we could use to build a strategy and an action plan. | |
| 19:46 | kaametza | walterbender, about retroactivity It sohuld be read on the grant contract |
| 19:46 | llaske | It's here: https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/[…]ion_proposal_2016 |
| 19:46 | walterbender | llaske, can you share this? |
| 19:46 | kaametza | you asked for those funds to create a seed translation fund |
| 19:46 | llaske | Shortly it says only 3 things: |
| 19:46 | 1) Sugar is the best learning platform | |
| 19:46 | 2) Sugar must be accessible by everyone | |
| 19:46 | 3) Sugar must be accessible on any device | |
| 19:46 | Of course, it's only a first step, if we're agree on this (it's the most important thing!), it's easy to detail an action plan on each point. For example: | |
| 19:46 | 1) What miss in the platform to be the best one ? What content we need to add ? | |
| 19:46 | 2) How we could increase the Sugar community ? How we could deploy Sugar for more users ? | |
| 19:46 | 3) What sort of device we should prioritize ? What about XO support effort ? | |
| 19:46 | (the last one is the sensitive part :-) | |
| 19:46 | samsongoddy_ | i guess i have to go now, i felt that i have been ignored |
| 19:46 | walterbender | #link https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/[…]ion_proposal_2016 |
| 19:47 | kaametza | on 2013 and it havent been created yet |
| 19:47 | ElVerma | For what it's worth, I've looked at llaske's document and think that it's a great starting point. This process will have to also rely on our mission statement to come up with a set of defined goals and obejectives. |
| 19:47 | cjl | samsongoddy_: not ignored, they are just not ready to decide yet |
| 19:48 | walterbender | llaske, the underlying message is to more formally support Sugarizer :P |
| 19:48 | llaske | Not really |
| 19:48 | The idea is just that the XO is dead | |
| 19:48 | ElVerma | A fair bit of the "how" part will unfold once we have some agreement on goals and objectives. |
| 19:48 | llaske | so we need to go further |
| 19:48 | samsongoddy_ | probably it will be suspended to the next meeting right, cjl? |
| 19:48 | CanoeBerry | samsongoddy_: nigeria is not ignored; thanks for staying up |
| 19:48 | walterbender | llaske, I am not being critical... I think it is important to look forward |
| 19:48 | tony376 | I really think we need to be careful re the XO. We have a unique responsibility there. |
| 19:49 | kaametza | I'm sure there is a good reason, but now it needs to be created Walter even if is not retroactive as from Today the after the motion :d |
| 19:49 | llaske | My idea is not to stop the work on the XO |
| 19:49 | walterbender | we have a legacy platform to continue to support |
| 19:49 | llaske | My idea is to still maintain it but to keep effort elsewhere |
| 19:49 | walterbender | we have our desktop which we support in Fedora and Debian |
| 19:49 | ElVerma | Putting on my business school professor hat: Mission + Vision -> Goals -> Objectives -> Tasks. The Tasks part is where most of us are right now...very operational. |
| 19:49 | walterbender | we have Sugar on a Stick |
| 19:50 | llaske | Something like 2/3 - 1/3 |
| 19:50 | walterbender | and we have Sugarizer |
| 19:50 | Quozl` | in my opinion the vision need not mention the legacy platform; work on the legacy platform will continue regardless, because of the active users of that platform. vision is a longer term thing. |
| 19:50 | walterbender | that is a lot but I don't see any options to drop at this stage |
| 19:51 | IMHO the goal is to reach children regardless of the platform they have access to | |
| 19:51 | that was in fact part of the initial idea behind creating Sugar Labs | |
| 19:51 | ElVerma | +1 to Quozl |
| 19:51 | +1 to walterbender | |
| 19:51 | GrannieB | ElVerma… your hat is just like a good educator's hat! Lionel is right… we do need a refined Mission _+ Vision to get to the Goals |
| 19:51 | Quozl` | @chair, what is the motion? |
| 19:51 | llaske | And the XO can't be in the vision, except as the legacy |
| 19:52 | CanoeBerry | llaske: Small point, but the 1st sentence of your https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/[…]ion_proposal_2016 is incredibly controversial across most of 2015 (see http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/ archives). |
| 19:52 | ElVerma | XO should be in the vision as one of the vehicles |
| 19:52 | walterbender | llaske, I am happy with the statement as stands |
| 19:52 | samsongoddy_ | i guess i like the idea too |
| 19:52 | davelab6 | llaske: the XO is not dead but it is in the process of dying |
| 19:52 | llaske | XO has no future, as you know all. So we can't put it in our ambition |
| 19:52 | davelab6 | llaske: i think the question is about how to sunset it gracefully |
| 19:52 | samsongoddy_ | sure |
| 19:52 | llaske | +1 |
| 19:52 | samsongoddy_ | that what sugarizer is for |
| 19:52 | walterbender | llaske, but the sugar desktop is not dead yet |
| 19:52 | llaske | But our ambition is for 2020. XO will not be here in 2020 |
| 19:52 | ElVerma | I will reiterate: The vehicle of delivery isn't something that should show up in the vision. |
| 19:53 | CanoeBerry | I disagree. |
| 19:53 | icarito | if I may say so Sugar Labs already has a vision and a mission statement: to provide a constructionist learning environment to offer children a way to learn to learn (or something something check wiki) |
| 19:53 | walterbender | it can evolve with the Linux desktop |
| 19:53 | samsongoddy_ | but xo infinity might |
| 19:53 | llaske | Every device might |
| 19:53 | satellit_e | do not forget olpc-ubuntu-sugar-14.04.2 |
| 19:53 | Quozl` | samsongoddy_: the "xo" part of that product has been removed. |
| 19:53 | ElVerma | icarito: Vison and Mission are two different things |
| 19:53 | CanoeBerry | The XO will certainly still be an active learning environment in 2020. |
| 19:53 | llaske | The XO-4 ? |
| 19:53 | Claudia__ | I agree with ElVerma, "The vehicle of delivery isn't something that should show up in the vision" |
| 19:54 | Quozl` | CanoeBerry: our next product probably won't have "xo" in the name. |
| 19:54 | samsongoddy_ | they are good cause in rwanda |
| 19:54 | tonyF | android phone is v important looking forward, its in the cremotest villages |
| 19:54 | GrannieB | +1 CanoeBerry… if the battery problem can be solved |
| 19:54 | icarito | ElVerma, any how good discussion, don't think board meeting material really except perhaps to commit to making a statement by a given time? |
| 19:54 | walterbender | Quozl`, +1 |
| 19:54 | ElVerma | For the purposes of what needs to happen in the meeting today, I will continue to work with llaske on this. |
| 19:54 | walterbender | I don't think XO belongs in the vision |
| 19:54 | tony376 | The point is that a substantial number of XO (mostly XO-1) will be in active use in 2020 |
| 19:55 | llaske | Thanks ElVerma. I guess we've got material here :-) |
| 19:55 | Quozl` | the three million claim is weak, but that doesn't invalidate a vision, i say let it stand for the moment. |
| 19:55 | walterbender | tony376, I agree |
| 19:55 | ElVerma | llaske: Yes, we did :-) |
| 19:55 | meeting | <Jose_Miguel-es> +1ElVerma. |
| 19:55 | icarito | also we should really update the XO logo as our central mascot |
| 19:55 | samsongoddy_ | seems like linux is taking all over the world, have any here the news from microsoft |
| 19:55 | Quozl` | tony376: yes, i estimate 30,000 of the XO-1 will still be usable in 2020. |
| 19:55 | icarito | i guess the board would like to discuss that |
| 19:55 | walterbender | Quozl`, I don't think we need a hard and fast number in the vision statement at all |
| 19:56 | kaametza | ElVerma +1 vision is a complete mind set, almost a dream of what can be possible, that inspires the momentum of a community |
| 19:56 | CanoeBerry | Quozl`: could be a lot higher or a lot lower, for sure. |
| 19:56 | kaametza | to all, sorry If I have been in such a hurry |
| 19:56 | Quozl` | i thought sugar labs acquired the logo, and we're just using it on the cover of laptops to make a point? ;-) |
| 19:56 | ElVerma | Also, for what it's worth, I am doing something similar for another FOSS project that I'm on the board of. There are similarities and differences, but it serves us well if we follow a process. |
| 19:57 | Quozl` | @chair, i suggest the motion is clear and the discussion near complete. |
| 19:57 | icarito | i served in this board when it solicited every local lab for vision / mission and 3 6 and 9 month strategic goals |
| 19:57 | it sat on it (and substantial funding) | |
| 19:57 | so clearly some things have to change IMHO | |
| 19:57 | walterbender | llaske, please make your motion so we can vote |
| 19:57 | GrannieB | It is 4 min to end. Any chance we could consider my Treasurer motion now? Ed and I have to start a 2-1/2 hour drive in the LA traffic and hope to get ahead of the rush hour |
| 19:57 | davelab6 | icarito: where are the responses to that solicitation? |
| 19:58 | llaske | I don't want a motion, I'm going to work with ElVerma on another draft that we'll send you on the SLOB mailing list |
| 19:58 | GrannieB | +1 |
| 19:58 | icarito | davelab6, thanks for the interest I will look for them in the mailing list archive |
| 19:58 | walterbender | ok. |
| 19:58 | meeting | <Jose_Miguel-es> +1llaske. |
| 19:58 | llaske | I would like to open the debate |
| 19:58 | Claudia__ | thanks, llaske |
| 19:58 | llaske | It's done |
| 19:58 | walterbender | #topic proposal for rules of removal and appointment of SLOB members |
| 19:58 | CanoeBerry, | |
| 19:58 | ElVerma | llaske: +1 |
| 19:59 | CanoeBerry | Context: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]March/017789.html |
| 19:59 | walterbender | #link http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]March/017789.html |
| 19:59 | CanoeBerry | Motion: in keeping with the board 2010's decision on this matter from a different era, I wsuggest that if a Board Member (1) fails to vote and |
| 19:59 | attend pre-scheduled Board meetings for more than 12 weeks, (2) resigns or (3) dies, then the Board is empowered and encouraged to appoint a replacement for this seat. Finally, just a clarification that the Replacement Board Member would be required to defend their seat during the very next election. | |
| 19:59 | walterbender | I second |
| 20:00 | llaske | +1 |
| 20:00 | walterbender | we had a discussion on the list |
| 20:00 | CanoeBerry | +1 |
| 20:00 | walterbender | +1 |
| 20:00 | Quozl` | it's fine as a motion, i've seen many like it. |
| 20:00 | ElVerma | +1 |
| 20:00 | walterbender | motion passes.... |
| 20:00 | meeting | <Jose_Miguel-es> +1 |
| 20:00 | tony376 | +1 |
| 20:00 | CanoeBerry | Claudia__: ? |
| 20:00 | Claudia__ | +1 |
| 20:01 | CanoeBerry | Unanimous, that was easy! |
| 20:01 | walterbender | I am afraid we are out of time. |
| 20:01 | samsongoddy_ | yeah |
| 20:01 | walterbender | GrannieB, I am sorry we did not get to your treasurer motion |
| 20:01 | llaske | May be few minutes more for GrannieB ? |
| 20:01 | walterbender | but I don't think we need a new motion to appoint someone |
| 20:01 | GrannieB | Please! |
| 20:01 | walterbender | we need to find someone to fill the existing position |
| 20:01 | llaske | I've got a question on it |
| 20:02 | Do we need to give a remuneration to the Treasurer. In OLPC France we've got one (me ! since I left the President position to join SLOB) and we don't have remuneration for the job. | |
| 20:02 | Plus, as Adam said "SFC is fundamentally being paid to act as SL's treasurer" | |
| 20:02 | walterbender | llaske, I don't think we need to pay anyone for this |
| 20:02 | esp. as I think it is a simple reporting task | |
| 20:02 | Claudia__ | walterbender: I agree |
| 20:02 | davelab6 | +1 |
| 20:03 | llaske | Great. My position in the SLOB is to keep money in the bank :-) |
| 20:03 | walterbender | I disagree with GrannieB 's second motion about granting the trreasurer unilateral spending ability |
| 20:03 | icarito | In the past bernie as appointed powers of up to 200 US |
| 20:03 | GrannieB | The Treasurer would be expected to attend all the meetings. They would liasion with the SFC |
| 20:03 | icarito | but he refused to use them when requested directly (and publicly) |
| 20:03 | llaske | So it's the Adam's Job right now :-) |
| 20:03 | icarito | so requests lingered back to SLOBs |
| 20:03 | GrannieB | The Treasurer would not spend. They would disburse funds |
| 20:03 | walterbender | icarito, as I explained in my email that was specific to infrastructure needs, which can be time sensitive |
| 20:03 | Claudia__ | it would be great for everyone to commit to raise funds to get to more children |
| 20:03 | walterbender | GrannieB, the SFC does that |
| 20:03 | icarito | it was not so in the motion that was passed then |
| 20:03 | CanoeBerry | In other news, I just got access to SFConservancy's bookkeeping system, and this command... ledger -V -s -S T -d "T&l<=2" -f sugar.ledger bal\ |
| 20:03 | '/^(Income|Expenses).*Sugar/' ...yields: | |
| 20:03 | $ -287,099.18 Income:Sugar | |
| 20:03 | $ 206,521.59 Expenses:Sugar | |
| 20:03 | -------------------- | |
| 20:03 | $ -80,577.59 | |
| 20:04 | icarito | if my memory serves me correctly |
| 20:04 | walterbender | icarito, there was no motion voted on |
| 20:04 | icarito | yes there was, will look for that too for you |
| 20:04 | CanoeBerry | So I believe we have $80,577.59 in our account as of March 31, 2016 -- though audit/adjustments are still forthcoming if I understand Bradley Kuhn correctly. |
| 20:04 | GrannieB | small amounts for little things… a banner, paper clips etc would not need board approval. Everything else would |
| 20:04 | walterbender | icarito, I thought you were referring to the present discussion |
| 20:05 | icarito, there was a motion to grant bernie this spending discression for infratsructure | |
| 20:05 | icarito | well no I was referring to the past appointment of that role to bernie in maybe 2009 |
| 20:05 | it did not specify infrastructure | |
| 20:05 | perhaps you had it implied among you | |
| 20:05 | GrannieB | Motions for funds to be expended would be presented to the treasurer who would, in turn present them to tbe board |
| 20:05 | icarito | but I voted on a general motion |
| 20:05 | walterbender | icarito, whether or not the motion said that, that was the intent |
| 20:05 | satellit_e | FYI I donated for a Hard Drive to bernie then |
| 20:05 | walterbender | GrannieB, I disagree |
| 20:06 | icarito | that's why we requested him to approve 150 funds in 2010 and had to wait ~3 months for slobs approva |
| 20:06 | GrannieB | this would cut down on a lot of the cross-talk at meetings and things would move more smoothly |
| 20:06 | walterbender | I think we do that for specific teams needs |
| 20:06 | not a general position | |
| 20:06 | icarito | yes GrannieB i believe so too |
| 20:06 | GrannieB | too many people talking at a time |
| 20:06 | slows things down | |
| 20:06 | walterbender | GrannieB, I'd like to see some evidence |
| 20:06 | Quozl` | GrannieB: no, not too many people talking; but rather too few listening. |
| 20:06 | GrannieB | wastes time at meetings |
| 20:06 | walterbender | GrannieB, the slowing down is people trying to talk off topic |
| 20:06 | icarito | you can look as an example of inaction the past 3 years |
| 20:07 | walterbender | icarito, enough with your innuendos |
| 20:07 | GrannieB | Hey Walter… just look at the last 2 meetings… all about $$$ and everyone talking about something different at the same time |
| 20:07 | icarito | walterbender, about that could you please share the meeting rules? |
| 20:07 | i understand there is a protocol but can't find a reference to it | |
| 20:07 | GrannieB | I just want to see Sugar Labs work smoothly like most organizations in the world |
| 20:07 | walterbender | GrannieB, nothing in the past two meetings has anything to do with a few hundred dollars of desicretionatry spending |
| 20:07 | samsongoddy_ | me too |
| 20:07 | icarito | i find distasteful how you address each other but I think that is within rules |
| 20:07 | GrannieB | not like this kindergarten… sorry MIT folks! |
| 20:07 | icarito | i just dont know |
| 20:08 | walterbender | GrannieB, I don't what MIT folks you are referring to but I suggest you read the logs |
| 20:08 | look. I need to go | |
| 20:08 | ElVerma | I have to leave for another meeting. Until next time! Oh, and I think we should rebase Sugar on Windows10. With a GNU Hurd kernel ;-) |
| 20:08 | icarito | walterbender, you are not entitled to mistreat people whoever you are, I'm sorry |
| 20:09 | cjl | cough |
| 20:09 | llaske | :-) ElVerma |
| 20:09 | walterbender | thanks all... to be continued |
| 20:09 | Quozl` | icarito: agreed there are ambiguous interpersonal behavioural standards on irc. |
| 20:09 | walterbender | tony376, will send email |
| 20:09 | GrannieB | "Lifelong Kindergarten" which is great for everything but meetings! |
| 20:09 | tony376 | thanks |
| 20:09 | walterbender | #endmeeting |
| 20:09 | meeting | Meeting ended Fri Apr 1 20:09:35 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4) |
| 20:09 | Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-01T19:01:31.html | |
| 20:09 | Log: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]16-04-01T19:01:31 | |
| 20:09 | CanoeBerry | Breathe... |
| 20:09 | tony376 has quit IRC | |
| 20:09 | llaske | Waooo |
| 20:10 | meeting | <Jose_Miguel-es> *Bye |
| 20:10 | ElVerma has left #sugar-meeting | |
| 20:10 | llaske | Bye ! |
| 20:10 | meeting | * Jose_Miguel has quit (Quit: Page closed) |
| 20:10 | ricowill has quit IRC | |
| 20:11 | tonyF | thanks all, bye |
| 20:11 | Claudia__ | bye |
| 20:12 | walterbender | bye |
| 20:13 | kaametza | Claudia__, you may consider seconding my proposals for the sake of our indigenous comminuties of users :D |
| 20:13 | samsongoddy_ | bye! |
| 20:13 | llaske | oops could someone confirm me date/time for the next meeting |
| 20:13 | kaametza | t can be done by email... right? |
| 20:13 | GrannieB has quit IRC | |
| 20:13 | kaametza | Claudia__,? |
| 20:13 | JM__ has quit IRC | |
| 20:14 | walterbender | llaske, the first friday of very month at 19UTC |
| 20:15 | llaske | ok thanks |
| 20:17 | kaametza | llaske, however I would like to hear more from you about the SL vision |
| 20:18 | samsongoddy_ | i guess my proposal will be voted via email |
| 20:18 | llaske | Sure. It was just a first draft to share main principe |
| 20:18 | kaametza | I belive Sugar has the capacity to become a facilitador for knowledge exchange among continents |
| 20:18 | llaske | Nice slogan ! |
| 20:19 | Claudia__ has quit IRC | |
| 20:19 | kaametza | :D i like slogans, have some marketing background |
| 20:19 | samsongoddy_ | have you seen my proposal, llaske? |
| 20:19 | llaske | Quickly. Could you give the URL again |
| 20:19 | samsongoddy_ | okay |
| 20:20 | kaametza | samsongoddy_, have you published anywhere yet? |
| 20:21 | samsongoddy_ | i will just share the doc |
| 20:21 | llaske | okay |
| 20:21 | samsongoddy_ | https://onedrive.live.com/redi[…]thint=file%2cdocx |
| 20:22 | here is the first one then the other was mailed my laura | |
| 20:22 | you can mail me your feedback | |
| 20:23 | llaske | just reading it |
| 20:23 | samsongoddy_ | i have to go now, my time is up. I have to take my medicine |
| 20:23 | kaametza | samsongoddy_, you should send it to the Translation Committe with cc to SLOBS |
| 20:24 | llaske, that is not the proosal | |
| 20:24 | icarito | samsongoddy_, that looks like a contract not a proposal i think there was a spreadsheet |
| 20:24 | kaametza | that is the contract template from conservancy |
| 20:24 | llaske | yes, right it's more a contract |
| 20:24 | samsongoddy_ | the exibit A listed the projects |
| 20:25 | the milestone fee was added, i guess i have to send it to slobs for voting | |
| 20:25 | llaske | Okay. I see |
| 20:25 | kaametza | samsongoddy_, you need to publish all documents... |
| 20:25 | llaske | But you know my strategy: what is the motivation to translate in Igbo, Hausa, Yoruba, Fulani ? |
| 20:25 | kaametza | not sure where would be the best place |
| 20:26 | llaske | Is there any deployment there ? |
| 20:26 | How many people already use Sugar in Nigeria ? | |
| 20:27 | icarito | llaske since you bring that up I understand your point but I think it's too narrow a metric to look only at sugar adoption |
| 20:27 | kaametza | llaske, samsongoddy_ is from the Yoruba tribe, one of many using sugar in english |
| 20:27 | icarito | our mission is broader than that |
| 20:28 | llaske, I volunteer for Sugar Labs because I believe in spreading freedom | |
| 20:28 | so there is value in sitting down with communities and having them improve their software | |
| 20:28 | learn that they can give value to their culture thru technologic appropriation | |
| 20:28 | I'm not sure how to cuantify that | |
| 20:28 | llaske | yes but unfortunately we can't pay to translate Sugar in every existing language |
| 20:28 | kaametza | learning english/french/spanish with the computer is good, pacially for developing computacional skils |
| 20:29 | icarito | llaske, perhaps we even could if we improve our workflow and remove bottlenecks |
| 20:29 | samsongoddy_ has quit IRC | |
| 20:29 | icarito | languages are human heritage that needs urgent action IMHO |
| 20:29 | kaametza | still, learning in their own languages has a secret value |
| 20:30 | it makes children proud of who they are | |
| 20:30 | of their traditions, their granparents.. | |
| 20:30 | icarito | if we need to focus on curriculum we might as well teach ofimatics |
| 20:31 | kaametza | the mere fact of been able to translate some software is an amazing idea that opens many windows for the learners minds |
| 20:32 | llaske, I have to get back to the children, hope to talk to you soon | |
| 20:35 | icarito | just read from Simple English wikipedia what innuendo is: An innuendo is an indirect or implied statement of ideas or opinions. - I don't think there was anything indirect or implied in my opinions. |
| 20:36 | and i try to avoid by all means to be sarcastic | |
| 20:36 | I think it's a nasty custom | |
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