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| 14:54 | cjl | good morning CanoeBerry walterbender |
| 14:57 | CanoeBerry | cjl: ciao! |
| 14:57 | See y'all in 1 hour. | |
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| 16:00 | meeting | * Jose_Miguel-es has joined |
| 16:00 | walterbender | hola |
| 16:00 | shall we begin? | |
| 16:00 | cjl has quit IRC | |
| 16:00 | walterbender | #start-meeting |
| 16:00 | meeting | Meeting started Fri Mar 4 16:00:36 2016 UTC. The chair is walterbender. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 16:00 | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting | |
| 16:00 | JM_ <JM_!~webchatrev-18-85-44-69.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting |
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| 16:00 | meeting | <Jose_Miguel-es> Hello! |
| 16:00 | llaske | hi |
| 16:00 | walterbender | CanoeBerry, you still here? |
| 16:01 | I am hoping tony and chris show up to discuss i18n | |
| 16:01 | CanoeBerry | Hi, yes. |
| 16:01 | walterbender | in the meantime, maybe we can discuss GSoC |
| 16:01 | #topic GSoC | |
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| 16:02 | walterbender | Good news is we are accepted again |
| 16:02 | GrannieB <GrannieB!~webchatrev-18-85-44-69.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting |
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| 16:02 | walterbender | we seem to have a lot of interest from potential interns |
| 16:02 | llaske | +1 great |
| 16:02 | meeting | <Jose_Miguel-es> Excellent! |
| 16:02 | walterbender | a few seem really outstanding |
| 16:02 | llaske | Another good news, Michaël is agree to be mentor this year |
| 16:02 | icarito | hi all great |
| 16:02 | llaske | just had a chat with him |
| 16:03 | (Michaël was my student last year) | |
| 16:03 | walterbender | one student has made numerous patches to all parts of the stack and both Python and JS apps. |
| 16:03 | tony___ <tony___!~webchatrev-18-85-44-69.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting |
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| 16:03 | llaske | nice |
| 16:03 | walterbender | llaske, did you send him an invite? |
| 16:03 | llaske | few minutes ago |
| 16:03 | walterbender | One caveat re GSoC |
| 16:03 | I don't know how many slots we will get. | |
| 16:04 | Not even sure when we will be told | |
| 16:04 | llaske | that always the question |
| 16:04 | walterbender | I am hoping we get 6 like last year. |
| 16:04 | llaske | I will give a conference to the school I'm working next week to recruit |
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| 16:04 | walterbender | llaske, +1 |
| 16:04 | llaske | Hope to have about 100 students there |
| 16:04 | CanoeBerry | tony___: welcome..seems we have quorum |
| 16:05 | walterbender | tony___, glad you could join us |
| 16:05 | tony___, what time is it for you? | |
| 16:05 | tony___ | high |
| 16:05 | hi | |
| 16:05 | walterbender | :) |
| 16:05 | CanoeBerry | Just after midnight in the Philippines. |
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| 16:05 | icarito | i'd like to revisit the freedesktop compatibility with a GSoC slot - it's silly that we have to have wrappers for things like gcompris |
| 16:05 | walterbender | In any case, I think it will be a decent GSOC experience again this year. |
| 16:06 | icarito | we're missing out on a lot of software for wanting to be a platform |
| 16:06 | llaske | Walter, I think to adapt a bit the proposal template for students to add something on Sugar-web |
| 16:06 | walterbender | llaske, sure |
| 16:06 | tony___ | icarito what is your alternative? |
| 16:06 | llaske | Like create a hello world app in Sugar-Web |
| 16:06 | walterbender | icarito, feel free to add a project description to the wiki |
| 16:06 | cjl_ is now known as cjl | |
| 16:07 | walterbender | hi cjl |
| 16:07 | Ibiam <Ibiam!~webchatrev-18-85-44-69.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting |
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| 16:07 | icarito | tony___, there is a standard called .desktop files - sugar should be able to launch linux apps from a set of those |
| 16:07 | kaametza_ | good day everybody :D |
| 16:07 | icarito | tony___, there are a bunch of tweaks that could be made to accomodate regular linux apps |
| 16:07 | cjl | Sorry, Iwas in and then my connection bounced |
| 16:08 | Ibiam | good day everyone |
| 16:08 | tony___ | icarito - it would be nice if stop on the wrapper stopped the wrapped program and that the icons showed correctly in the frame |
| 16:08 | walterbender | icarito, the flip side is that it is not so hard to launch sugar apps from the desktop... I think if we have some great apps that people can access outside of sugar it may drive interest in the platform |
| 16:09 | any other comments re GSoC? | |
| 16:09 | icarito | walterbender, yes, I will copy all of this from my previous years gsoc ideas proposal |
| 16:09 | maybe we can allocate it this year | |
| 16:09 | tony___ | walter - 00:09 |
| 16:09 | walterbender | icarito, all depends on the students |
| 16:10 | icarito | walterbender, agreed |
| 16:10 | Claudia <Claudia!~webchatrev-18-85-44-69.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting |
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| 16:10 | walterbender | shall we have the i18n discussion while we have everyone here? |
| 16:11 | icarito | ...and the mentor vote ;-) |
| 16:11 | CanoeBerry | Claudia: welcome! |
| 16:11 | walterbender | #topic i18n |
| 16:11 | Claudia | Hi CanoeBerry@ |
| 16:12 | walterbender | tony___, wanna lead the discussion? |
| 16:12 | icarito | walterbender, you need to startmeeting for using #topic |
| 16:12 | tony___ | ok - I hope most of you have seen the wiki page on this topic |
| 16:12 | walterbender | icarito, I already did a startmeeting |
| 16:12 | CanoeBerry | http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Translation_Proposal |
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| 16:13 | tony___ | this documents the proposed role of the translation manager |
| 16:13 | icarito | ouch sorry walterbender |
| 16:13 | tony___ | Do I read the rules correctly that we must call this task the localization delegate? |
| 16:13 | walterbender | tony___, thanks for leading this error |
| 16:13 | ^error^effort | |
| 16:13 | :) | |
| 16:14 | tony___, I don;t know what rules you are referring to | |
| 16:14 | tony___ | something about that delegates are appointed by the SLOBs but others are appointed by other subgroups |
| 16:15 | walterbender | tony___, I think that is referring to the goal of having a SLOB delegate within each team |
| 16:15 | to ensure better communication | |
| 16:16 | tony___ | it was where we list appointees like ombundsman |
| 16:16 | walterbender | tony___, I don't think there is any issue here with the title of the role |
| 16:17 | and I think the proposal makes a compelling case for establishing the role | |
| 16:17 | tony___ | Well, I would propose localization manager |
| 16:17 | walterbender | My only concern is to make sure we have a mechanism of accountability |
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| 16:18 | tony___ | I assume the manager is accountable to the SLOBs and would expect a report each meeting |
| 16:18 | CanoeBerry | Yes. I'm very much in favor, naming this role "Translation Coordinator" or whatever is not the issue. |
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| 16:18 | walterbender | tony___, I presume from the discussion we are talking about making this a paid position |
| 16:18 | CanoeBerry | I would favor milestones every quarter. |
| 16:19 | tony___ | Yes, I think that is appropriate |
| 16:19 | walterbender | so we will need milestones and reporting built into a contract |
| 16:19 | CanoeBerry | Milestones could be separated from the contract, with approval by SLOBS every quarter. |
| 16:19 | tony___ | Agreed and roles and responsibilities |
| 16:19 | walterbender | CanoeBerry can ask Tony at the SFC to write something up once we decide on the above |
| 16:19 | CanoeBerry | We don't want layers approving every single milestone.. |
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| 16:19 | CanoeBerry | *lawyers |
| 16:20 | kaametza_ | sorry I got disconnected |
| 16:20 | walterbender | CanoeBerry, we need a contract in order to hire someone |
| 16:20 | that has to be done by the SFC | |
| 16:20 | tony___ | I think the manager would propose tasks to us with milestones but would not be undertaking this kind of task directly |
| 16:20 | CanoeBerry | Yes, the point is that Contract should be kept very simple -- not burdened with micromanaging each milestone. |
| 16:21 | walterbender | CanoeBerry, agreed. but I would insist on a rigorous reporting schedule |
| 16:21 | CanoeBerry | Agreed: If milestones (as confirmed by SLOBS each quarter or so) are not met, tehe contract ends. |
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| 16:21 | walterbender | CanoeBerry, it will also end when we run out of money |
| 16:22 | CanoeBerry | :) |
| 16:22 | Claudia | makes sense |
| 16:22 | kaametza_ | besides a unique job position, does the board plan to do any open call to the community with the remaining funds? |
| 16:22 | sammeister | Hello guys, it's good to be back |
| 16:22 | walterbender | kaametza, there has been an open call for 2+ years |
| 16:22 | kaametza_ | I mean, we don't have to wait until we ran out of funds to ask for more |
| 16:22 | tony___ | I hope we're talking on the same page. I think we need someone to manage the overall task which is outlined on the wiki page - we will also need to sponsor specific tasks with milstones |
| 16:23 | icarito | walterbender, she means an effective open call |
| 16:23 | walterbender | tony___, +1 |
| 16:23 | tony___ | These I would expect to be proposed by the manager, approved by us, and monitored by the manager |
| 16:23 | CanoeBerry | tony___, right on |
| 16:23 | kaametza_ | Tony I did sent an email with a proposal for a Translations Projects Fund |
| 16:23 | walterbender | icarito, I don't know what you mean... but presumably the manager will make things happen... that is why we are going down this path |
| 16:24 | sammeister | walterbender, ping |
| 16:24 | icarito | my point is there isn't anything to "manage" only a bunch of chores |
| 16:24 | walterbender | sammeister, pong |
| 16:24 | icarito | so these chores can be done by many people |
| 16:24 | GrannieB | We need to include some $ for teacher training, student recognition etc |
| 16:24 | kaametza_ | Tony the need for an open call is important to revitalize the sugar users community |
| 16:24 | icarito | agreed somebody needs to oversee and keep after projects |
| 16:24 | but you "open call" was for translators | |
| 16:24 | that I read | |
| 16:25 | sammeister | So what going with the translation project |
| 16:25 | kaametza_ | still there needs to be funds allowed for projects or there wont be any to support |
| 16:25 | icarito | translators alone don't make i18n happen, as we've learned |
| 16:25 | kaametza_ | GrannieB: i ='M GLAD YOU UNDERSTAND |
| 16:25 | sorry for that | |
| 16:25 | tony___ | As I tried to point out in the wiki page - there are two separate pieces (at least): i18n and l10n. The first requires us to make it possible to do translation. The second are those |
| 16:26 | kaametza_ | caps looks! |
| 16:26 | tony___ | who do localization |
| 16:26 | CanoeBerry | calls-to-action and public reporting (or even facebook/twitter reporting) should be part of the job description IMHO, as cjl posted at http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Translation_Proposal |
| 16:26 | walterbender | icarito, the trip advisor money is for translations which is presumably done by translators. We are proposing tapping into that fund to pay a manager to make things happen. I don't think we have any disagreement on this |
| 16:27 | icarito | walterbender, I don't think a manager and translators is going to do it either |
| 16:27 | as GrannieB said | |
| 16:27 | kaametza_ | walterbender: is not one por the other |
| 16:27 | icarito | you need to make it an event and I'm glad there are resources available |
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| 16:27 | tony___ | There are a couple of urgent issues for the manager. Recovery of the lost translation files and developing a clear procedure for i18n of the sugar-web software |
| 16:27 | walterbender | icarito, well... if you have things to add to the proposal, please add them |
| 16:27 | kaametza_ | both instances are needed |
| 16:28 | icarito | walterbender, I have, and kaametza has proposed too |
| 16:28 | but we don't feel you're listening | |
| 16:28 | walterbender | kaametza, I don't know what you are talking about... who is proposing one or the other and not both? |
| 16:28 | icarito, I don't know what you are trying to say | |
| 16:29 | icarito | i'm saying I don't think a top down strategy is good for native languages |
| 16:29 | kaametza_ | great to hear, walterbender so there is going to be a prjects fund open to the community? |
| 16:29 | sammeister | I don't understand the manager work here |
| 16:29 | GrannieB | Events cost $ |
| 16:29 | walterbender | icarito, I don't know where you get the idea that we are proposing exclusively a top down approach |
| 16:29 | kaametza_ | *Projects |
| 16:29 | sammeister | Hello GrannieB |
| 16:30 | CanoeBerry | The whole point of the Translation Coordinator is to unblock the process by moving us beyond the The Tyranny of Structurelessness. |
| 16:30 | GrannieB | Read Tony's excellent (but long report!) |
| 16:30 | walterbender | kaametza, I presume that the manager will be open to project suggestions within guidelines that he/she develops |
| 16:31 | kaametza_ | walterbender: the top down approach is the only thing in the translation proposal the committe is presenting |
| 16:31 | icarito | walterbender, ok so this 'manager' delegate will need a budget to get the chores done and I guess |
| 16:31 | walterbender | kaametza, again, if you have suggestions, please add them to the wiki... the vagueness is not helpful |
| 16:31 | tony___ | I don' t understand this. The process is well structured but has suffered from normal entropy and needs some work. However, if we expect someone to localize Sugar and its activities to a local languear |
| 16:32 | walterbender | tony___, +1 |
| 16:32 | tony___ | We need to give them a simple roadmap and tools |
| 16:32 | kaametza_ | Tony we had not ask for funds before because we had no idea there where funds available |
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| 16:32 | walterbender | there is a simple rule of thumb re management |
| 16:33 | tony___ | As Walter said, if we can appoint a manager you will have someone to make a proposal to who can bring it to this meeting for review and approval |
| 16:33 | sammeister is now known as samsongoddy | |
| 16:33 | walterbender | achieve consensus on the goals and let the means be decided by the people doing the work |
| 16:33 | kaametza_ | now that we know there are funds, we would like to apply and there is no clear documentation on how to do that |
| 16:33 | walterbender | I think that is what we are doing |
| 16:33 | CanoeBerry | Yes |
| 16:34 | GrannieB | I see the manager as something like an orchestra conductor making sure everyone does what they are supposed to do when they are supposed to do it resulting in a beautiful "performance" |
| 16:34 | walterbender | kaametza, presumable this person will provide that doiumentation |
| 16:34 | icarito | tony___, we can make proposals and bring them to the table ourselves |
| 16:34 | we need a technician who understands the i18n workflow | |
| 16:35 | and designs simple roadmaps and tools for each i18n role | |
| 16:35 | CanoeBerry | Sounds great. 25min warning. |
| 16:35 | kaametza_ | walterbender: the role of the delegate looks pretty technical (as it should be) as that is what deployments are needing; someone supporting their job n Pootle |
| 16:35 | walterbender | I'd like to propose a motion |
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| 16:36 | tony___ | I would like to propose that we name a translation manager and would nominate Chris Leonard. |
| 16:36 | GrannieB | The manager can coordinate the technicians |
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| 16:36 | samsongoddy | I agree with GrannieB |
| 16:36 | cjl_ is now known as cjl_here | |
| 16:37 | cjl_here | hello |
| 16:37 | CanoeBerry | We have many cjl's with us today, welcome to all :) |
| 16:37 | GrannieB | Like a former violinist conductor directs the bassoonist even though he doesn't know how to play it. He (or she) only needs to know what is possible! |
| 16:37 | samsongoddy | Lolz |
| 16:37 | Ibiam | totally correct, GrannieB |
| 16:38 | walterbender | MOTION: Based on http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Translation_Proposal Tony (and other SLOB members) should write up a job description with goals and reporting structure for a coordinator position to be submitted to the SFC |
| 16:38 | cjl has quit IRC | |
| 16:38 | samsongoddy | The must not be a technician |
| 16:38 | CanoeBerry | Agreed. Salary and quarterly reporting structure needs precision + professionalism, per GrannieB & others outlines. |
| 16:38 | +1 | |
| 16:38 | llaske | +1 |
| 16:38 | cjl_here | I'm having an awful time staying in the chat |
| 16:38 | Is someone hearing this? | |
| 16:38 | cjl_here has quit IRC | |
| 16:38 | walterbender | We will then use this as a basis for soliciting applicatons to the position |
| 16:39 | samsongoddy | What about us here in Africa?? |
| 16:39 | meeting | <Jose_Miguel-es> +1 |
| 16:39 | tony___ | Do we need Adam's session on how we make these votes or can we just vote? |
| 16:39 | CanoeBerry | CLARIF: "quarterly" reporting milestones should NOT be contained in the legal contract. |
| 16:40 | tony___: Just a clarification (as there are several new people) that Sugar Labs' Oversight Board motions pass when a majority of the total board seats vote in favor (currently that means a minimum of 4 out of 7 votes are required). Constitutional-level issues (changing bylaws, election mechanics) require 2/3 of the total board seats voting in favor (currently that means 5 of 7 votes). | |
| 16:40 | GrannieB | ? |
| 16:40 | CanoeBerry | tony___: Just a clarification that Sugar Labs' Oversight Board voting by email remains in place, as formalized in 2009/2010, so all voices are properly heard from who dedicate themselves to deployment/learning in offline countries. |
| 16:40 | tony___ | +1 |
| 16:41 | walterbender | no one has seconded the motion that is on the table |
| 16:41 | CanoeBerry | Seconded. |
| 16:41 | samsongoddy | What if there are three managers instead representing each continent just like Ubuntu |
| 16:41 | tony___ | I second the motion |
| 16:41 | Claudia | +1 |
| 16:41 | llaske | +1 |
| 16:41 | walterbender | further discussion? |
| 16:42 | llaske | Could you go to another subject ? |
| 16:42 | CanoeBerry | Just my clarif above -- that legalese micromanaging of future goals should not be in contract. |
| 16:42 | GrannieB | Wait… Samson has an excellent question above! |
| 16:42 | icarito | samsongoddy, that's actually a good idea |
| 16:43 | tony___ | We don't have nearly the resources that Ubuntu has |
| 16:43 | icarito | let's make a coordinator team why not |
| 16:43 | samsongoddy | I don't know what you guys agreed on because I believe it will be difficult |
| 16:43 | icarito | tony___, we don't have the workload ubuntu has either |
| 16:43 | llaske | Good idea but too complex for us |
| 16:43 | Claudia | do we have the funds for three managers? |
| 16:43 | walterbender | samsongoddy, I think the coordinator is going to build the team |
| 16:43 | icarito | Claudia, if you call them technicians maybe we do |
| 16:43 | managers tend to earn more | |
| 16:43 | Ibiam | we might not necessarily pay them all |
| 16:43 | icarito | it is a technical role |
| 16:43 | walterbender | and by necessity solicit regional help |
| 16:43 | kaametza_ | Claudia: we should not centralized ht funds distribution ;D |
| 16:44 | samsongoddy | Our goal is to run sugar in native languages right? |
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| 16:44 | walterbender | samsongoddy, yes |
| 16:44 | kaametza_ | Ibiam: just pay those needed to actually support the infraestructure and pootle workflow |
| 16:44 | CanoeBerry | And all languages. |
| 16:44 | Claudia | I am not pushing for a central management, but a good process to get things done |
| 16:44 | icarito | milestones will speak by themselves I think |
| 16:44 | kaametza_ | I'd lke to propose Smason and icarito |
| 16:45 | samsongoddy | Okay Nigeria got about 501 languages alone compare to other in Africa |
| 16:45 | walterbender | I think we are getting ahead of ourselves |
| 16:45 | icarito | walterbender, it's only logical |
| 16:45 | kaametza_ | Claudia: me too! decentralizing resourcres is key for an open project |
| 16:45 | tony___ | Has the motion been approved? |
| 16:45 | CanoeBerry | Too many cooks is a real danger we need to watch for. A fair-minded motivated global coordinator can do wonders if we find the right one! |
| 16:46 | GrannieB | +1 |
| 16:46 | CanoeBerry | Yes, motion approved. |
| 16:46 | walterbender | to take words from kaametza we are building a heavy top down structure without evidence that it is needed or will help |
| 16:46 | GrannieB | Then local sub-coordinators |
| 16:46 | icarito | CanoeBerry, GrannieB samsongoddy and I did a pretty decent job with the election committee if I may say so myself |
| 16:46 | walterbender | the motion has not been voted on |
| 16:46 | Ibiam | and he can also build a team just like walter rightly said |
| 16:46 | icarito | I enjoyed working with samson |
| 16:46 | samsongoddy | Thanks |
| 16:47 | walterbender | I think we are micromanaging and we have not even started yet |
| 16:47 | icarito | pootle and I have lots of time ahead together if you let me help |
| 16:47 | kaametza_ | according to our experience, get things done in the translation of sugar reuiresa support from (1) infrastructure team and (2) translation team coordinator |
| 16:47 | samsongoddy | walterbender what do you think about having three mangers?? |
| 16:48 | kaametza_ | *requires |
| 16:48 | walterbender | samsongoddy, I think that the person we bring on as coordinator should make that decision |
| 16:48 | pikurasa <pikurasa!~Thunderbi2601:184:4200:2904:10f9:310:bc6b:cfc3> has joined #sugar-meeting |
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| 16:48 | icarito | i think *that* is micromanaging |
| 16:48 | CanoeBerry | 11min warning. |
| 16:48 | walterbender | samsongoddy, I think we are over-engineering the problem |
| 16:48 | icarito | maybe a committee will vet their decision |
| 16:48 | kaametza_ | that doesnt make any sense walterbender |
| 16:48 | icarito | :-D |
| 16:49 | kaametza_ | we are telling you how to simplify it |
| 16:49 | llaske | I would like to switch to a marketing topic |
| 16:49 | kaametza_ | you do need Chris |
| 16:49 | CanoeBerry | walterbender: motion is approved if I count the votes above. |
| 16:49 | kaametza_ | but you also need icarito and samsongoddy if you want to realy make it happen |
| 16:49 | samsongoddy | Okay I am just saying what is right |
| 16:49 | walterbender | CanoeBerry, we never asked for a vote |
| 16:50 | tony___ | We do have a motion on the floor which has been seconded |
| 16:50 | CanoeBerry | +1 (reiterating my vote above) |
| 16:50 | samsongoddy | If you guys remember in sugar 0.104 there were a translation team I set up in Nigeria |
| 16:50 | walterbender | kaametza, (1) I don't see how 3 is more simple than 1; (2) I don't see how our dictating the structure as opposed to letting the coordinator define it is not micromanaging |
| 16:51 | kaametza_ | sorry llaske but I would like to propose the Motion for the creation of the Sugar Translations Project's Fund |
| 16:51 | walterbender | samsongoddy, that team can play well with the manager |
| 16:51 | and make proposals to the manager | |
| 16:51 | kaametza_ | walterbender: it is about resources for everybody |
| 16:51 | CanoeBerry | 8min warning. |
| 16:51 | walterbender | kaametza, we already have a motion on the table |
| 16:51 | samsongoddy | Yeah but they are funding problems |
| 16:52 | What why there were not help in the sugar 0.108 | |
| 16:52 | walterbender | samsongoddy, that is what we may be able to help with, but not without someone looking after the process |
| 16:52 | kaametza_ | walterbender: I thoug GrannieB said it was approved\ |
| 16:52 | icarito | native languages belong in the grassroots |
| 16:52 | walterbender | kaametza, she may have said it, but we have yet to cll for a vote |
| 16:52 | icarito | sugar labs needs to nurture local efforts |
| 16:52 | CanoeBerry | ahem, llaske & i need to bring up other topics |
| 16:52 | kaametza_ | +1 icarito |
| 16:52 | walterbender | we have been discussing |
| 16:53 | icarito | there is no excuse for not doing so with funds meant for i18n |
| 16:53 | GrannieB | I think you need to vote to extend the meeting there are other topics that need hearing! |
| 16:53 | llaske | +1 CanoeBerry |
| 16:53 | walterbender | CanoeBerry, I don't feel I can cut off the discussion |
| 16:53 | icarito | ok |
| 16:53 | kaametza_ | please to apologize any delay but this subject is critical for us |
| 16:53 | walterbender | GrannieB, We may have to try to meet again next week. I cannot stay past the hour |
| 16:53 | llaske | Marketing is critical for us too... |
| 16:54 | CanoeBerry | ok, but I was asked to present during this meeting. |
| 16:54 | Ibiam | walterbender: ping |
| 16:54 | GrannieB | nope… didn't say it |
| 16:54 | samsongoddy | I am not trying to cause problem here but I think my motion should be consider |
| 16:54 | walterbender | let's vote on the motion on the table |
| 16:54 | CanoeBerry | +1 |
| 16:54 | walterbender | +1 |
| 16:54 | llaske | +1 |
| 16:55 | tony___ | +1\ |
| 16:55 | walterbender | samsongoddy, we can bring your motion up at the next meeting. |
| 16:55 | kaametza_ | llaske: marketing is for new users and that is OK if we have a quality product |
| 16:55 | meeting | <Jose_Miguel-es> +1 |
| 16:55 | CanoeBerry | Claudia: ? |
| 16:55 | icarito | is it valid that samson has made a motion? only slobs can make motions? |
| 16:55 | kaametza_ | localozation is for existing sugar users |
| 16:55 | Claudia | +1 |
| 16:55 | walterbender | the motion passes. |
| 16:56 | #topic marketing | |
| 16:56 | llaske | Thanks. My point regarding marketing could be sum up in few words: |
| 16:56 | kaametza_ | llaske: by the way emails to your account keept bouncing :D |
| 16:56 | walterbender | llaske, the floor is yours |
| 16:56 | llaske | I had a talk with Sean. I've noted one important thing: to do marketing we need to have a clear strategy. |
| 16:56 | So it means that we need to be clear about what is the SugarLabs strategy for the future. | |
| 16:56 | We've just talked about l10n/l18n that could be a part of our strategy but of course there is plenty other things. | |
| 16:56 | Other could be related to expand the number of user, expand the number of content, expand the number of device, … | |
| 16:56 | I think we must take time to write our strategy so we could clearly communicate and do marketing on that. | |
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| 16:57 | cjl_here | aaargh, so much to say, so little cahnceto speak before I get kicked. |
| 16:57 | samsongoddy | Hello Lionel |
| 16:57 | kaametza_ | sorry walterbender but I did propose another important motion schedualed for today walterbender: please can I propose the Motion for the creation of the Sugar Translations Project's Fund? |
| 16:57 | icarito | llaske, a couple of years ago an attempt was made to make a strategic plan (3mo - 6mo) it was requested for each local lab to present their plan, slobs did nothing with this |
| 16:58 | walterbender | llaske, +1 |
| 16:58 | llaske | we don't need a detailed plan, we need just to share a vision |
| 16:58 | samsongoddy | congrats with the sugarizer |
| 16:58 | GrannieB | +1 |
| 16:58 | llaske | @samsongoddy thanks |
| 16:58 | walterbender | llaske, shall we task you with this in the same fashion that Tony took on the translation task? |
| 16:59 | llaske | Yes, sure. So we could exchange on this during 45mn on next meeting :-) |
| 16:59 | walterbender | llaske, we can make it topic #1 :) |
| 16:59 | llaske | cool :-D |
| 16:59 | Claudia | good idea |
| 16:59 | cjl_here | sorry about the technical difficulties preventing him from taking part in discussion. |
| 16:59 | walterbender | CanoeBerry, you had a topic? |
| 17:00 | CanoeBerry | Yes, I was asked to explain email voting & removal of board members status quo, and possible cleanup. |
| 17:00 | (Just a clarification that Sugar Labs' Oversight Board voting by email remains in place, as formalized in 2009/2010, so all voices are properly heard from who dedicate themselves to deployment/learning in offline countries.) | |
| 17:00 | The world is now more connected almost a decade later however. | |
| 17:00 | MOTION to restrict email voting to 1 week going forward, to remove confusion from the current voting process, keeping focus. Board members' email votes would be required to arrive within One Week Maximum (168.0 hours) of the original motion. (Any motion that fails to pass within this 1-week sunset period, can of course be attempted again in future, e.g. if long-term overseas/off-grid/medical | |
| 17:00 | absences require another later vote on the same topic). | |
| 17:01 | walterbender | CanoeBerry, question |
| 17:01 | llaske | sounds good |
| 17:02 | walterbender | if there is a majority present, e.g., 1 absent member, can a motion pass without waiting 1 week? |
| 17:02 | icarito | I don't understand this board's refusal to consider the needs of active contributors in the field and to ignore valuable contributors to Sugar and Sugar Labs |
| 17:02 | pikurasa has quit IRC | |
| 17:02 | walterbender | CanoeBerry, ??? |
| 17:02 | meeting | <Jose_Miguel-es> I understand that the vote by mail is when they do not reach in the board? |
| 17:03 | CanoeBerry | walterbender: are you talking about quorum to start a meeting? not sure i understand? that seems seperate. |
| 17:03 | pikurasa <pikurasa!~Thunderbi2601:184:4200:2904:10f9:310:bc6b:cfc3> has joined #sugar-meeting |
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| 17:03 | walterbender | CanoeBerry, say we had 6 of use and voted 4-2 |
| 17:03 | pikurasa has quit IRC | |
| 17:03 | walterbender | that would pass regardless of the email vote |
| 17:03 | icarito | it's obvious there are pressing issues to be discussed I would ask the board to meet before one month to address them |
| 17:03 | CanoeBerry | certainly |
| 17:03 | walterbender | do we need to wait 1 week? |
| 17:03 | GrannieB | +1 |
| 17:04 | samsongoddy | walterbender did you ask the sfs team concerning what we discuss about the media |
| 17:04 | walterbender | CanoeBerry, not sure that certainly referred to |
| 17:04 | CanoeBerry | oh i see -- no waiting a week implied |
| 17:04 | walterbender | CanoeBerry, OK |
| 17:04 | got it | |
| 17:04 | any further discussion of CanoeBerry 's motion? | |
| 17:04 | CanoeBerry | Context: Sugar Labs' Oversight Board motions pass when a majority of the total board seats vote in favor (currently that means a minimum of 4 out of 7 votes are required). Constitutional-level issues (changing bylaws, election mechanics) require 2/3 of the total board seats voting in favor (currently that means 5 of 7 votes). |
| 17:05 | kaametza_ | Just one qucik question can I start the request for US$ 1,000 for translation basic SAUGAR to Esse Eja? |
| 17:05 | tony___ | Do all motions such as the one tonight require email voting? |
| 17:05 | GrannieB | There is a motion on the floor |
| 17:05 | walterbender | tony___, that was what I was asking.. adam says no. |
| 17:05 | CanoeBerry | Email voting remains permitted not* required. |
| 17:06 | Email voting remains permitted *not* required. | |
| 17:06 | walterbender | works for me |
| 17:06 | makes sense and 1 week is reasonable | |
| 17:06 | Claudia | yes |
| 17:06 | CanoeBerry | I think so. |
| 17:06 | GrannieB | If majority w/o the missing votes no need for email |
| 17:06 | CanoeBerry | Second the motion? |
| 17:06 | walterbender | let's vote |
| 17:06 | I second | |
| 17:06 | CanoeBerry | +! |
| 17:06 | tony___ | So, as I understand it, if a motion is voted on but there is not a majority, a request for an email vote could be made? |
| 17:06 | llaske | +1 |
| 17:06 | CanoeBerry | +1 |
| 17:06 | walterbender | tony___, yes |
| 17:06 | +1 | |
| 17:07 | meeting | <Jose_Miguel-es> +1 |
| 17:07 | tony___ | +1 |
| 17:07 | CanoeBerry | tony___, email votes are accepted event w/o request. |
| 17:07 | tony___, email votes are accepted even w/o request. | |
| 17:07 | samsongoddy | Lolz I feel like I don't belong to this meeting |
| 17:07 | icarito | samsongoddy, LOL we can't believe it either |
| 17:07 | Ibiam | so lost |
| 17:07 | tony___ | canoeberry - I don't understand how that works. We voted on two motions tonight - how would an email vote come into play? |
| 17:08 | walterbender | tony___, for completeness only in thiese cases |
| 17:08 | motion passes | |
| 17:08 | icarito | i hope for sugar that we can do better than 2 motions per month |
| 17:08 | GrannieB | #Tony they all passed so ne email vote needed |
| 17:08 | walterbender | Look. We are out of time and clearly there are more topics to discuss. |
| 17:08 | CanoeBerry | tony___: a motion passes when it reaches 4 votes from SLOBS members. e.g. permitting Sameer Verma (who missed this meeting) to vote within 168.0 hours of any motion. |
| 17:08 | walterbender | can people meet again next week? |
| 17:08 | CanoeBerry | No fancy process. Just a clarification. |
| 17:08 | Claudia | yes, but I need to leave now |
| 17:08 | samsongoddy | Sure |
| 17:09 | meeting | <Jose_Miguel-es> *Yes |
| 17:09 | walterbender | I need to leave now too... |
| 17:09 | llaske | not sure but I will try |
| 17:09 | samsongoddy | bye Claudia |
| 17:09 | CanoeBerry | I'm in Haiti for most of the coming 2 weeks; cannot meet unfort. |
| 17:09 | llaske | next meeting ? |
| 17:09 | next month ? | |
| 17:09 | kaametza_ | this is as joke? |
| 17:09 | llaske | 8th april ? |
| 17:09 | samsongoddy | That's far |
| 17:09 | walterbender | llaske, I am hoping we can meet next week as we have much more to discuss and no time |
| 17:10 | cjl_here | willing to stick around to discuss any questions anyone has about how I see a L10n manager position working. |
| 17:10 | samsongoddy | Yeah your right |
| 17:10 | llaske | "Official" SLOB meeting on 8th April |
| 17:10 | it was my question | |
| 17:10 | CanoeBerry | "Fri Apr 1 1600 UTC" is our next meeting by default. |
| 17:10 | samsongoddy | Okay |
| 17:10 | llaske | okay |
| 17:10 | walterbender | llaske, is 1 April a problem? |
| 17:10 | tony___ | canoeberry - a foolish time for a meeting |
| 17:10 | kaametza_ | llaske: we are in the Amazon waiting for funds! |
| 17:10 | GrannieB | I suggest that future motions on major issues be written in advance and placed on the agenda. Minor ones "on-the-fly" OK |
| 17:10 | llaske | no that's okay for me |
| 17:11 | samsongoddy | It was great meeting with your guys |
| 17:11 | walterbender | I need to go... I will be here next week and if we have a quorum we can have a formal meeting. Otherwise, we can have a discussion |
| 17:11 | kaametza_ | I have met the schools with the XO's on the sleves beacuse the software is not relevant to indigenous communities as t comes |
| 17:11 | walterbender | my apologies that we ran out of time. |
| 17:11 | kaametza_ | please do not waist any more time |
| 17:12 | GrannieB | The meeting time should be to discuss and amend if needed major motions |
| 17:12 | meeting | <Jose_Miguel-es> *Ok. *Bye |
| 17:12 | cjl_here | kaametza I had shared a template on the e-mail list about L10n contracts. Crafting a custom version of Exhibit 1 is the key step, I'd be willing to help you do that for Peruvian langs you propose. |
| 17:12 | kaametza_ | GrannieB: I did propose a motion and I was ignored |
| 17:12 | I felt like a bulling victim | |
| 17:12 | samsongoddy | Lolz |
| 17:12 | meeting | * Jose_Miguel has quit (Quit: Page closed) |
| 17:13 | cjl_here | That is essentially the "translation fund" you are talking about. |
| 17:13 | Claudia | byt now |
| 17:13 | Claudia has quit IRC | |
| 17:13 | walterbender | kaametza, (1) you proposed a motion in the middle of a discussion of a different motion (2) other people had topics to discuss as well. we ran out of time |
| 17:13 | CanoeBerry | kaametza): i was asked to present during this meeting a month ago and not given the chance (on SLOBS board member removal) due to time.. |
| 17:13 | kaametza_ | cjl_here: yes but the fun goes beyond paper work |
| 17:14 | cjl_here | fcourse, but funding comes from paperwork, no way around it. |
| 17:14 | kaametza_ | it does structurate a workflow for funds to keep comming and for translations to start flowing |
| 17:15 | icarito | samson intervened during topic #1 |
| 17:15 | as did we | |
| 17:15 | JM_ has quit IRC | |
| 17:15 | CanoeBerry | Claudia: SVerma: plz vote on the above motions by email within the coming week, per your fiduciary duty please -- or abstain if nec, Thanks! |
| 17:15 | kaametza_ | dvisor, etc\ |
| 17:15 | cjl_here | the proposal should name the language, the specific strings to be done and propose milestone-based payments for completing those strings |
| 17:16 | samsongoddy | Icarito intervened? |
| 17:16 | icarito | samsongoddy, in this case "made a proposal" |
| 17:16 | cjl_here | If you want to propose logistics costs, go ahead, andthey will be discussed by SLOBs. |
| 17:17 | kaametza_ | yes but only, from my eamil you can read all the logic activirties that are needed before we can find and reclure a good translator |
| 17:18 | I made an effor to make a clear description of the effort needed, is not just strings | |
| 17:18 | GrannieB | Why not put motions and proposals in writing in advance of the meeting… in the agenda as topics to be discussed and voted on. Most organizations do this. It streamlines the process. |
| 17:18 | cjl_here | then define those activites and associated costs in the proposal. |
| 17:18 | strings are the measurable product of the actions funded. | |
| 17:19 | GrannieB | Key here is "in the agenda!" |
| 17:19 | email not good | |
| 17:19 | samsongoddy | I am not till please with the proposal |
| 17:19 | kaametza_ | GrannieB: I did send an specific email about this |
| 17:20 | GrannieB | Question… can any SL member propose a motion or only SLOBS? |
| 17:20 | icarito | GrannieB, yes that's not fair Laura specifically addressed both the committee and IAEP |
| 17:20 | cjl_here | kaametza are you talking about your Translation Fund idea? |
| 17:20 | kaametza_ | GrannieB: the subject is Sugar Translations Projects Fund |
| 17:20 | cjl_here: yes | |
| 17:21 | GrannieB | The agenda is the place for motions. Not emails or meetings. They could be discussed in emails and in the meetings if needed |
| 17:21 | cjl_here | kaametza the same goal is achievedby written proposals on specific languages with milestones, like was donefor Aymara. |
| 17:21 | kaametza_ | I was surprised nobody answered my eamil |
| 17:21 | but I did receive just 1 bouncing note from llaske | |
| 17:22 | cjl_here: I don't know how it was done for aymara actually | |
| 17:22 | cjl_here | kaametza If you create a writen proposal based on the template I had sent out, it will be considered by SLOBs for funding. |
| 17:22 | GrannieB | Don't feel bad. Nobody replied to mine about teacher training and student resources… but Tony read it and put it in his report. Tony does a superb job! As always. |
| 17:22 | kaametza_ | you mean the contract? |
| 17:23 | cjl_here | kaametza Walter shared the actual language of the Aymara agreement with the list |
| 17:23 | icarito | GrannieB, your idea was put in the wiki, hers was not |
| 17:23 | GrannieB | Maybe Tony didn't see it |
| 17:23 | kaametza_ | before we meet Edgar there were years of activities reaching to people to help, you may not be aware of how much that costs but it does |
| 17:24 | icarito | cjl_here, you did this without coordinating with the actual aymara deployment |
| 17:24 | the aymara translations collided with local efforts | |
| 17:24 | it was a mess | |
| 17:24 | by the way | |
| 17:24 | cjl_here | icarito this started at SugarCamp Lima in2010 |
| 17:24 | kaametza_ | when you guys hired he had already been working and had been trained by us at Puno and at Lima |
| 17:24 | icarito | yes but I'm talking about the contract SLOBs did with Edgar for translating aymara |
| 17:25 | recently | |
| 17:25 | cjl_here | icarito how do you think it should havebeen done? |
| 17:25 | kaametza_ | there is no way you will get a good trained translator out of thin air |
| 17:26 | it does matter now | |
| 17:26 | what matter is how it should be done from now on | |
| 17:26 | icarito | at least it should've been announced publicly that this was being done |
| 17:26 | so that others can work with/around it | |
| 17:26 | not collide | |
| 17:26 | cjl_here | kaametza not thin air, but many of our L10ns come from people we only meet over the internet. Obviously indigenous languages often require additional effort, so put it in a written proposal. |
| 17:27 | kaametza_ | there sould be resources for community reach, exchange, translator scouting , trainning, conection, etc |
| 17:27 | ok | |
| 17:27 | cjl_here | kaametza so propose it and let SLOBs vote on it. |
| 17:27 | icarito | I think the translation committee has not understood the complexities of *native* language tranlation |
| 17:27 | it's not like going for french | |
| 17:27 | :-D | |
| 17:28 | kaametza_ | but please do consider the formal creation of the Projects Translation Funds, so we don't ran out of resources in the mid term ;D |
| 17:29 | Trip Advisor may like some publicity like "Gold Sponsor" | |
| 17:29 | many more sponsor can be dounf | |
| 17:29 | *found | |
| 17:30 | cjl_here | icarito: I don't kniowexactly what you are implying,can you be more clear? |
| 17:30 | llaske | Sorry, need to disconnect. Don't forget to close the meeting ! |
| 17:30 | kaametza_ | of course |
| 17:31 | cjl_here | hmm, looks like nobody officially ended the meeting. |
| 17:31 | llaske | #endmeeting |
| 17:31 | GrannieB | +1 |
| 17:31 | llaske | that's right ? |
| 17:31 | cjl_here | #end-meeting |
| 17:31 | llaske | :-) |
| 17:31 | cjl_here | nope, not yet |
| 17:32 | GrannieB | I think WB usually does it |
| 17:32 | llaske | #close-meeting |
| 17:32 | :-D | |
| 17:32 | cjl_here | http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot |
| 17:32 | llaske | so endmeeting was good :-) |
| 17:32 | kaametza_ | I know, still I would like you to understand that the point of creating a fund is to make it a continous process |
| 17:32 | GrannieB | guess so |
| 17:32 | kaametza_ | not just one time only |
| 17:32 | llaske has quit IRC | |
| 17:33 | icarito | cjl_here, sorry something came up and distracted me |
| 17:33 | i'm not trying to imply anything it was written to IAEP at the time | |
| 17:33 | GrannieB | How can it be continuing if we don't know the grant money will be continuing? |
| 17:33 | walterbender | #end-meeting |
| 17:33 | GrannieB | because we don't |
| 17:33 | meeting | Meeting ended Fri Mar 4 17:33:28 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4) |
| 17:33 | Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-04T16:00:36.html | |
| 17:33 | Log: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]16-03-04T16:00:36 | |
| 17:33 | walterbender | sorry about that :P |
| 17:34 | kaametza_ | GrannieB: the job description for the translation delegate should include funds raising |
| 17:34 | cjl_here | kaametza There are the Trip Advisor funds that new local language proposals will be drawing from. |
| 17:35 | kaametza_ | seed capital for the Translation's Fund :D |
| 17:36 | cjl_here | There are currently adequate funds to get a decent number of efforts going. But efforts can't be entirely open-ended. They need tohave milestones and meet them. |
| 17:36 | kaametza_ | now will make the proposal as you suggested, still not sure which way to go with it |
| 17:36 | cjl_here | Let me help. |
| 17:37 | kaametza_ | cjl_here: I do agree, please do keep in mind I coordinated the hole Awajun translation |
| 17:37 | samsongoddy | kaametza_, how many languages will u be translating? |
| 17:37 | cjl_here | Ido see part of the delegate/managerrole as being in assisting people access the available resources (money, tools, Pootle, etc.) to get thte necessary work done. |
| 17:37 | kaametza_ | I will share scheduales and budgets alltough they are in Spacish |
| 17:37 | cjl_here | kaametza That is excellent work, a proposal to support it would be most welocome, I'm sure. |
| 17:38 | kaametza_ | samsongoddy: I do logistcs for translations to happen ;D |
| 17:38 | cjl_here | samsongoddy: I saw in the backscroll you asked about Africa. I am currently assisting the Lingal effort to get going on glibc locale and GNOME L10n. |
| 17:38 | kaametza_ | now I'm n the Amazon rainforest and would love to be able to translate at least 3 of the indigenouse languages soon |
| 17:39 | cjl_here | I'd love to work with more African language communities. |
| 17:40 | We have a great volunteer effort going in Igbo right now. | |
| 17:40 | samsongoddy | Which language is lingal |
| 17:40 | icarito | GrannieB, cjl_here here's Laura's lost email http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]ruary/017744.html |
| 17:41 | samsongoddy | Yeah a friend of mine is working in the igbo |
| 17:41 | cjl_here | sorry, Lingala from CD isocode ln |
| 17:42 | samsongoddy | Nigeria have three general languages part from English |
| 17:42 | Igbo, hausa, yoruba | |
| 17:43 | There are lots of languages in Nigeria | |
| 17:43 | So that why I was pressing for funding | |
| 17:43 | cjl_here | We have Hausa and Yoruba on Pootle, all we need are translators :-) |
| 17:44 | samsongoddy | Yeah but one thing is that funding is the issue. |
| 17:45 | cjl_here | I'll work on a template for the milestones/associated costs that you can use to propose a language effort andput it on the wiki. |
| 17:45 | GrannieB has quit IRC | |
| 17:45 | cjl_here | samsongoddy: funds are available, the only thing needed is a written proposal and SLOBs approval. I'll help with proposal writing. |
| 17:46 | kaametza_ | have to go cjl_here nice talking to you |
| 17:46 | cjl_here | kaametza let's keep in touch to advance proposal writing. |
| 17:46 | kaametza_ | samsongoddy: please do have patiente with grownups we are trying to figure it out on how to save the world :D |
| 17:47 | cjl_here | We need to add in glibc localedevelopment likewe did for Awajun. |
| 17:47 | kaametza_ | we'll write to you soon :D |
| 17:47 | cjl_here | ok, lookingforwardto it. |
| 17:47 | kaametza_ | samsongoddy: take care |
| 17:48 | Ibiam | cjl_here: the proposal will soon be drafted, there are other languages in nigeria that need to be added and we also need help in those languages |
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| 17:48 | cjl_here | Ibiam: besides Hausa and Yoruba? |
| 17:48 | Ibiam | yeah |
| 17:49 | like effik | |
| 17:49 | cjl_here | which ones? I'd like to check if there are glibc locales for them, if not we will need to develop them. I do a lot of that. |
| 17:50 | Ibiam | one problem is the no. of translators for these languages |
| 17:50 | cjl_here | Do you know any? |
| 17:50 | Ibiam | some of us translating are not proficient in the above languages, but we know people who are |
| 17:51 | cjl_here | If they don't speak Englsih, we can translate from French instead. |
| 17:51 | Ibiam | in Nigeria, no one really does such for free |
| 17:51 | that's why we were talking about the funds | |
| 17:51 | cjl_here | Ibiam: would they do it for15 - 30 cents per word? |
| 17:51 | Ibiam | and there are not much french speakers in the country |
| 17:52 | we haven't negotiated with anybody yet | |
| 17:52 | cjl_here | Ibiam: Just offering options. It is important for Peruvian and Mexican languages that we can do it from Spanish. |
| 17:52 | doyou knowthe language code for effik? | |
| 17:53 | Ibiam | that is a different case, in Nigeria there are so many lanuages and there are not much similarities between them |
| 17:53 | cjl_here | Wedo have Fulah on Pootle also |
| 17:54 | Ibiam | that's great |
| 17:54 | i think it's part of the hausa tribe | |
| 17:54 | cjl_here | Fulfulde |
| 17:54 | Ibiam | for effik it might be efik |
| 17:54 | cjl_here | Again, we need translators. |
| 17:55 | ok https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efik_language | |
| 17:56 | isocode efi | |
| 17:56 | Ibiam | I'm at a cafe and my time is almost up |
| 17:56 | what's your facebook handle | |
| 17:56 | cjl_here | reach me by e-mail cjlsugarlabs.org |
| 17:56 | I'm not much of a facebooker | |
| 17:57 | Ibiam | okay it's ibiamchihurumnayagmail.com |
| 17:57 | cjl_here | ok |
| 17:57 | I'll send you an idea I have of how to get started with minimal effort involved, but big impact. | |
| 17:57 | Ibiam | i need help on the email service |
| 17:58 | okay | |
| 17:58 | cjl_here | developing a glibc locale that will work for all versions of Linux |
| 17:58 | Key first step | |
| 17:59 | Ibiam | i try adding my sugarlabs account to my gmail and at the smtp server point i get this error "Authentication failed. Please check your username/password. [Server response: 535 5.7.8 Error: authentication failed: code(535) ]" |
| 18:00 | cjl_here | hmmm, I neverhad a problem doing that |
| 18:01 | Ibiam | i don't know why it's that way in my own case |
| 18:01 | we'll talk by email, my time is almost up | |
| 18:01 | cjl_here | Take care |
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| 21:07 | meeting | * irma-es has joined |
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| 21:13 | irma | Hello |
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| 22:50 | ignacio | Hello, I was watching the danish girl. A good movie. Sorry for not being able to attend |
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