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#sugar-meeting, 2015-09-16

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Time Nick Message
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21:57 tch__ ping *
21:58 samdroid` Hey
21:59 tch__,devel team meeting is now right?
22:00 tch__ samdroid`, yep!
22:00 samdroid`, whats up?
22:00 samdroid`, lets wait a couple minutes for others?
22:00 samdroid` Sounds good :)
22:00 How are you?
22:01 tch__ I am great, but I have been busy with other things recently,
22:02 and you?
22:03 samdroid` Good thanks.  Submitted patch to WebKit, so I'm pretty happy :)
22:04 (patch for saving and restoring session - api required by browse)
22:05 tch__ samdroid`, nice! where is the reviewing happening?
22:06 samdroid` https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115600
22:06 My C is bad, so any review appreciated
22:10 tch__ samdroid`, looks nice, is not even a big change
22:10 samdroid`, did you talk to any webkit developer? ie., IRC?
22:11 samdroid` No, just filed a bug and one of the devs told me to use session state api
22:11 But talking to them is a good idea :)
22:12 tch__ samdroid`, a subtle reminder that there is some code to be checked might be a good idea,
22:13 samdroid`, I don't know if they will discover your ticket otherwise
22:13 samdroid_ <samdroid_!~androirc@> has joined #sugar-meeting
22:13 samdroid_ Yep
22:14 tch__ samdroid_, regarding the meeting, walter told me he won't be able to attend, he is still in dubai
22:14 samdroid_, and its like 3AM or something
22:14 Quozl`, around?
22:14 gonzalo_, Quozl` ping
22:15 #startmeeting
22:15 meeting Meeting started Wed Sep 16 22:15:39 2015 UTC. The chair is tch__. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
22:15 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
22:16 tch__ well, it is just me and sam so far, but to honor the time we get started....
22:16 samdroid_ Ok
22:16 Do we wanna talk about collab?
22:16 Quozl` hi.
22:16 samdroid` has quit IRC
22:16 tch__ as I mentioned earlier, I have been busy with other non-sugar related stuff,
22:17 samdroid_ Gday Quozl`
22:18 tch__ due to this, at least from my side, there is no much to report regarding collaboration,
22:18 I am afraid I won't be able to dedicate much time on that task,
22:18 Quozl`, welcome James
22:19 samdroid_, Quozl` in terms of planning for the next release, I prepared a draft like a month ago, but is already outdated,
22:20 samdroid_ has quit IRC
22:20 Quozl` 'k.
22:20 tch__ I still can work on release management and I think I can also work on the minor improvements, such as the bug with the bundle installations
22:20 that also related to installations via package managers
22:21 I have a simple idea I would like to try, and propose,
22:21 samdroid` <samdroid`!~androirc@> has joined #sugar-meeting
22:21 tch__ samdroid`, welcome back,
22:21 samdroid` Sorry about that, has anything happened?
22:22 tch__ <samdroid_> Gday Quozl`
22:22 <tch__> due to this, at least from my side, there is no much to report regarding collaboration,
22:22 <tch__> I am afraid I won't be able to dedicate much time on that task,
22:22 <tch__> Quozl`, welcome James
22:22 <tch__> samdroid_, Quozl` in terms of planning for the next release, I prepared a draft like a month ago, but is already outdated,
22:22 * samdroid_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
22:22 <Quozl`> 'k.
22:22 <tch__> I still can work on release management and I think I can also work on the minor improvements, such as the bug with the bundle installations
22:22 <tch__> that also related to installations via package managers
22:22 <tch__> I have a simple idea I would like to try, and propose,
22:22 that is pretty much my status,
22:22 samdroid` Sounds legit mate
22:23 Just about collab... Does anybody have their foot in the door, their head in the space on that issue?  I dont :)
22:24 Quozl` samdroid`: you mean the telepathy api change?
22:25 samdroid` Yap
22:25 tch__ samdroid`, all I know is that telepathy-gabble droped Channel.Tubes, and a lot of activities relied on that...
22:25 samdroid` Awsome!
22:25 Quozl` samdroid`: my vote is to take the telepathy code as at the working version and embed it in sugar, 'cause we don't yet need the new features of telepathy.
22:26 of course, sucks to be any distribution that refuses code duplication.  like fedora.  ;-)
22:26 tch__ Quozl`, you mean as having our own fork?
22:26 samdroid` Quozl` sounds legit given the state of docs (all broken links)
22:27 Quozl` tch__: yes, forking, but at a source code level, not a package level.
22:28 samdroid` +1 way eaiser
22:28 Quozl` ... if somebody later has the time to do the full port, fine.  but at the moment we don't actually need what telepathy's new api gives us.  as far as i can tell.
22:28 ... we also don't want to create a cross-version incompatibility.  e.g. if the on-the-wire protocols changed.
22:29 samdroid` Does tp have any docs, examples anywhere?
22:29 tch__ Quozl`, I also believes it makes sense, assuming no-one has the time to dig into the extend of what exactly is broken and how affects sugar
22:29 Quozl` ... but it has been 25 hours since my last coffee, a double-shot home-brewed espresso, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.  ;-)
22:29 ... i was going to get my coffee but discovered this meeting.  ;-)
22:30 tch__ Quozl`, I wonder what exactly does it takes to put that code in sugar...
22:30 samdroid` #action include old telepathy with sugar
22:31 tch__ Quozl`, ie., do we want/need to make sure it doesn't break the mainstream gabble?
22:32 Quozl`, assuming that both are installed at the same time
22:33 I guess my understanding of gabble arch is limited
22:33 samdroid` Are there any docs on tp arch?
22:33 Quozl` tch__: think of it as an incremental approach.  1. branch sugar, 2. branch telepathy as of known working version, 3. rename telepathy components in both branches and get it working, ... of course the work is discarded if it proves easy to do the whole port.
22:34 ... but that's the nature of programming; when you don't know what will work, some of what you do will have been wasted time.
22:34 tch__ samdroid`, http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/Components/ probably a good starting point
22:34 samdroid` Thanks
22:35 Quozl` unrelated, is there hope for new wk2 on xo?
22:36 Quozl` samdroid`: what is wk2?
22:36 samdroid` Webkit2
22:36 tch__ Quozl`,would be really necessary to do such merge?
22:37 Quozl`, I mean, we could fork it and add the minimun changes required to make sure it does not conflict with mainstream gabble,
22:37 Quozl` tch__: no, it might not be necessary, but you might only find that out after having done both a merge and a port.
22:38 samdroid` :)
22:38 tch__ Quozl`, I just don't see the gain of merging it into a existing module, versus fork/consider it a new module
22:39 Quozl` samdroid`: not sure what you are asking, sorry.  if you mean "oh, the version of webkit on XO-4 is too old", the answers are to either backport the latest webkit package to fedora 18 (should be quick), or port kernel and absolutely everything else to fedora 23 (should take five people two months).
22:40 ... and i can provide half a person continuously, so it would take ten months, by which time it would be out of date.
22:40 samdroid` Quozl` kool, b/c yeah browse  webkit 2 would need newer webkit2 (submitted required patch yesterday)
22:40 tch__ Quozl`, regarding of the approach, we would also need some research to see me make sugar and activities to use that one, instead of the mainstream one
22:40 ie., a magical envar?
22:43 samdroid` Sorry guys gtg
22:43 Quozl` tch__: the renaming and inclusion of telepathy would result in change in sugar code, 's/from telepathy/from sugar.telepathy/g'
22:44 samdroid` Keep up the good work
22:44 samdroid` has quit IRC
22:44 tch__ samdroid`, thanks for coming :)
22:44 Quozl` (he has school)
22:45 tch__ Quozl`, yeah, I imagine something like that could be possible, assuming that the introspection stuff is included in gabble,
22:46 Quozl`, maybe can be made part of SugarExt?
22:46 can't really say much until we have looked at it,
22:47 Quozl` i've also been tempted to evaluate what sugar actually needs telepathy for and reimplement it in bare-metal udp and tcp code.  interoperability with other telepathy clients doesn't seem high on the demands of users.
22:48 Cerlyn This is also where Atomic (Fedora) and Ubuntu's isolation layers (forget the name) would come in handy - Telepathy vA for Sugar, Telepathy vB for GNOME.  Otherwise having both daemons on a dual-UI system could lead to a mess
22:52 tch__ Quozl`, I guess that understanding how gabble is being used is a pre-requisite for that, and it also a pre-requisite for all other alternatives
22:52 Quozl` tch__: yes.
22:53 tch__ Cerlyn, can you elaborate on that or point me to a documentation where I can inform myself :)
22:53 Cerlyn, sounds interesting
22:54 Cerlyn tch__: Both Fedora and Ubuntu are looking into installing apps on layering systems that potentially could provide isolation similar to Docker.  Going forward they may release updatable desktops which update via replacement layers instead of RPM/DEB
22:55 you still would have the port sharing issue though, and possibly shared configs
22:56 https://blogs.gnome.org/uraeus[…]-the-way-forward/ (need to find a newer link, just did a quick search)
22:56 tch__ Cerlyn, hmm, is interesting but I wonder how long it will take that to land. In the meanwhile, we should look for a short-term alt..
22:57 Cerlyn, thanks for the link,
22:57 Cerlyn https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/snappy/ (not sure how close it is to the Fedora equivalent)
22:59 tch__ Cerlyn, thanks, ill take a look
22:59 I guess is enough for today,
22:59 Quozl` ok, bye.
22:59 tch__ thanks samdroid, Quozl` and Cerlyn :)
23:00 #endmeeting
23:00 meeting Meeting ended Wed Sep 16 23:00:18 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
23:00 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-16T22:15:39.html
23:00 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]15-09-16T22:15:39
23:16 Quozl` Ahmed to join Sugar Labs as a developer.  Just kidding.

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