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| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00 | GrannieB3 | Yes… the process is quite simple. All 7 offices need to be filled/refilled. If you want 2 cohorts on SLOBS, we can split it 4-3 with the top 4 vote getters having terms of 2 years and the next 3, 1 year. |
| 00:00 | Or… it could be split differently if that is what you all decide | |
| 00:01 | walterbender | GrannieB3, I suppose we can vote, but I think your intentions (continuity) are good |
| 00:01 | gonzalo__ | GrannieB3, icarito, did you plan any action about the sugarlabs members list? |
| 00:01 | CanoeBerry | GrannieB3: thanks again for yr bringing this together so concisely: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]tachment-0001.pdf |
| 00:02 | Personally, I'd not want to encourage 3-year terms as we (like many boards) have had a problem with absenteeism. | |
| 00:02 | GrannieB3 | If you want 3 cohorts, it could be split 3-2-2. In order to make the turn-over annual there would need to be one (one time only) 3 year term for the top 3, 2 years for the middle 2 and 1 year for the last 2 |
| 00:03 | walterbender | CanoeBerry, 3 years is a long time -- too long IMHO |
| 00:04 | CanoeBerry | The doc above seems perfect, if folkd agree to drop item #8 |
| 00:04 | *folks | |
| 00:04 | GrannieB3 | We will be sending a message to the current membership touting all the great things SugarLabs has done recently and encouraging them to run for office. I don't know if it is psycologically a good idea to invite them to take their names off the list. |
| 00:05 | If they want to be dropped, they can initiate the process with a simple email reply | |
| 00:07 | walterbender | that is fine... but getting more participation from the community is key |
| 00:07 | gonzalo__ | +1 |
| 00:07 | walterbender | I think we have many people participating who are not members |
| 00:07 | or don't know that they can participate | |
| 00:08 | gonzalo__ | the big olpc community is fragmented |
| 00:08 | GrannieB3 | Right! We need to recruit from other groups of folks who are active with Sugar… such as UnleashKids, OLPC France, etc. etc, etc. |
| 00:08 | Claudia_ | I agree with Gonzalo |
| 00:08 | gonzalo__ | and we as sugarlabs have a tendency to value more development work |
| 00:09 | i would like to find a way to involve more people, writing docs, etc | |
| 00:09 | GrannieB3 | If you are looking for young people, teachers, administrators, etc… you are looking for far more than just developers |
| 00:10 | gonzalo__ | GrannieB3, yes |
| 00:10 | two examples: | |
| 00:10 | Quozl` | (developers used to mean also writing docs, translations, and promotion ... but that's not what developers means these days) |
| 00:11 | gonzalo__ | with 0.106 we included social.sugarlabs.org, a site to rovide interactive help |
| 00:11 | and help.sugarlabs.org have the docs created for many members in the community | |
| 00:11 | Quozl`, the point is involve more people, not have the same people doing more work | |
| 00:12 | Quozl`, we need enlarge the community | |
| 00:12 | GrannieB3 | the teachers in Peru, Argentina, and Paraguay might be a place to look for members. Rosamel joined once, she has to be the best Sugar teacher anywhere! Her health is getting a lot better so maybe she would be willing to participate |
| 00:12 | Quozl` | gonzalo__: yes, and promoting what some people do can have the effect of reducing what others do. because somebody else is doing it. |
| 00:12 | GrannieB3 | She is now teaching other teachers too! |
| 00:13 | gonzalo__ | Quozl`, i don't follow |
| 00:13 | what should we do? | |
| 00:14 | Quozl` | gonzalo__: we should not emphasise coding development effort. we should emphasise features and community of users. |
| 00:14 | GrannieB3 | Rozamel in Uruguay… she was very ill with breast cancer in the years after some of us met her. But she is doing soooo much better now. |
| 00:15 | i5o is now known as nacho | |
| 00:15 | GrannieB3 | She is a very effective teacher and teaches at a local teachers college in Uruguay in addition to being an administrator at a school |
| 00:15 | Quozl` | gonzalo__: ask yourself this; where does the community of sugar users exist now; how do they communicate? iaep@ sugar-devel@ facebook? i think a community of users is needed, _from_ which development and outreach may be guided. |
| 00:16 | gonzalo__ | Quozl`, well communication is a big problem, evidently |
| 00:17 | GrannieB3 | How about the folks in OLPC France? I love that they want Sugar on every device. Some of the Activities have a long way to go, but there soon will be enough to promote it for use on non XO devices at schools all over the world |
| 00:17 | Take that LAUSD and your iPads!!! | |
| 00:18 | Quozl` | ... and with no well-functioning user community, Sugar ends up being pushed around by developers or funded organisations like deployments or OLPC. |
| 00:18 | meeting | <Jose_Miguel-es> I have to go me... |
| 00:19 | Quozl` | Re: elections, I'm not a member of SLOBS, but I suggest that SLOBS reach out to people who may be able to join it. Young or old, developer or not. |
| 00:20 | samdroid | +1 |
| 00:20 | Quozl` | sits down |
| 00:21 | GrannieB3 | So… the goal is to grow the SugarLabs membership and encourage people to run for SLOBS |
| 00:21 | walterbender | yes |
| 00:21 | not a new goal | |
| 00:22 | but we have never been good at it | |
| 00:22 | meeting | <Jose_Miguel-es> *Sorry... *Bye. |
| 00:22 | * Jose_Miguel has quit (Quit: Page closed) | |
| 00:22 | Jm_ has quit IRC | |
| 00:23 | walterbender | so any renewed effort and new insights would be great |
| 00:23 | GrannieB3 | So…. maybe more than just a short newsy item… a real (one time only perhaps) Newsletter (note the capital "N") |
| 00:24 | walterbender | GrannieB3, that is certainly one point of our effort |
| 00:24 | but do we have other ideas too? | |
| 00:24 | GrannieB3 | Who can contribute to such an effort? If someone feeds me the stories, I can put it into a newsletter |
| 00:25 | gonzalo__ | GrannieB3, I can send you something, if you correct my grammar ;) |
| 00:26 | GrannieB3 | Yes! Gonzalo, that would be great! |
| 00:26 | gonzalo__ | GrannieB3, when you want release the Newsletter? |
| 00:26 | GrannieB3 | anyone else? |
| 00:26 | gonzalo__ | (of course we need more people) |
| 00:26 | GrannieB3 | We wanted to send the email out to the membership the first week in August |
| 00:26 | walterbender | GrannieB3, I have 8 years of blogs you can draw from |
| 00:27 | kaametza | GrannieB3, we will get you news from Peru |
| 00:27 | gonzalo__ | GrannieB3, maybe you can send requests to more people, samdroid and nacho can tell us abbout GCI too ;) |
| 00:27 | GrannieB3 | Not old news …. Walter… 8 years ago… no. We need current stuff |
| 00:28 | Do you all have my email to send me the blurbs? | |
| 00:28 | Quozl` | Good old news is just as good, if it is re-edited for context. |
| 00:28 | gonzalo__ | GrannieB3, maybe ask to sora or the guys from olpc france too |
| 00:28 | kaametza | GrannieB3, you shold write to deployments leaders like Maureen |
| 00:28 | walterbender | GrannieB3, I am working on my latest post, but I doubt most people know about much of anything I have posted in the past 6 months |
| 00:28 | kaametza | I'll pass you her email |
| 00:29 | Quozl` | GrannieB3: and give anybody you ask the option of writing only a small paragraph, so they have a graceful way out if they are busy. ;-) |
| 00:29 | walterbender | GrannieB3, a lot of the deployments post on FB |
| 00:29 | GrannieB3 | I won't have time to read thru 8 years of blogs looking for the gems. Walter, could you find some of the stuff you would like to include. Let's keep everything short and snappy! |
| 00:29 | walterbender | you can mine those stories too |
| 00:30 | GrannieB3 | No…. I'll edit and rewrite as needed, but I don't want to write the storied too. Not enough time! You can all have "bylines" on what you send me. |
| 00:31 | walterbender | GrannieB3, can you give me some criteria for what you think you need? |
| 00:31 | Claudia_ | I have to go soon |
| 00:32 | GrannieB3 | Super interesting things that will appeal to the current membership and the type of new members we want to attract. |
| 00:32 | walterbender | Claudia_, thanks... ttyl |
| 00:32 | GrannieB3 | Claudia… how about a blurb from you? |
| 00:33 | kaametza | maybe every current SLOB can contribute with their story |
| 00:33 | Claudia_ | +1 |
| 00:33 | GrannieB3 | good idea kaametza |
| 00:34 | (You can tell I don't know how to use irc) | |
| 00:34 | walterbender | not sure I understand... "their story" |
| 00:34 | Claudia_ | I am happy to work on something.. it would be great to get some topics, so we end up with a good collection |
| 00:35 | GrannieB3 | How about you all "pitch" your ideas and tell whether you would be willing to write it or suggest someone else who could do it? |
| 00:35 | kaametza | many stories to tell I guess, it might be interesting to read their experiences as SLOBs |
| 00:35 | GrannieB3 | Then we can look for balance and pick a reasonable list of stories to include |
| 00:36 | Claudia_ | could we again summarize the overall goal? |
| 00:36 | GrannieB3 | does anyone want to be an "assistant editor?" |
| 00:37 | gonzalo__ | kaametza, ? |
| 00:37 | walterbender | Claudia_, I think the stated goal is "A short “newsletter”about the recent |
| 00:37 | accomplishments of Sugar Labs will need to be prepared by the board for use" for recruiting members | |
| 00:38 | Claudia_ | put together a collection of different kinds of stories? establish a good communication mechanism (periodic)? attract SLOBs candidates? engage the community? |
| 00:38 | kaametza | gonzalo__, I'll help by putting together some news from Peru |
| 00:38 | GrannieB3 | we want to energize the current SugarLabs membership, recruit new members, and encourage people to run for SLOBS. The means we will use is a "newsletter" semt to current members and prospective members |
| 00:38 | Thats a suggested goal | |
| 00:38 | gonzalo__ | i think engage the community is the big objective. include a note about the near elections would be good |
| 00:39 | kaametza | gonzalo__, maybe Colombia as well |
| 00:39 | walterbender | maybe Rwanda as well |
| 00:39 | GrannieB3 | This is sounding exciting! |
| 00:39 | Claudia_ | so.. a bit of all.. |
| 00:40 | GrannieB3 | I can hardly wait to see what you guys contribute and what else we can find out there in the great world of Sugar! |
| 00:40 | Claudia_ | it would be good to have a bit of structure, so we know where to contribute |
| 00:40 | GrannieB3 | OK. Send the items to me also email contacts for others we should encourage to contribute |
| 00:41 | Do you wan tme to put my email here? Or will that cause me a problem later (spam) | |
| 00:41 | walterbender | GrannieB3, we have your email |
| 00:41 | kaametza | :D |
| 00:42 | GrannieB3 | good! |
| 00:42 | kaametza | thx GrannieB3 for helping with this! |
| 00:43 | GrannieB3 | Our goal (by the schedule) is to have this ready to send out by mid-August, so it would be good if I could have the items by the end of July |
| 00:43 | I have house guests coming the first 2 weeks in August so I shoul dtry to get it in order before then | |
| 00:43 | gonzalo__ | ok, end of July |
| 00:44 | GrannieB3 | Sooner is better so I don't get them all at once! |
| 00:45 | walterbender | will try to get you something soon |
| 00:45 | anything else we need to discuss tonight? | |
| 00:45 | GrannieB3 | good! |
| 00:45 | dinner time! | |
| 00:47 | walterbender | OK... let's wrap up |
| 00:47 | thanks GrannieB3 | |
| 00:47 | gonzalo__ | ok |
| 00:47 | walterbender | 4 |
| 00:47 | gonzalo__ | GrannieB3, thanks for take the initiative |
| 00:47 | Claudia_ | 3 |
| 00:47 | gonzalo__ | 2 |
| 00:47 | GrannieB3 | 1 |
| 00:48 | walterbender | #end-meeting |
| 00:48 | meeting | Meeting ended Tue Jul 7 00:48:16 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4) |
| 00:48 | Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-06T23:06:56.html | |
| 00:48 | Log: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]15-07-06T23:06:56 | |
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| 19:01 | abhinav | Hello All |
| 19:01 | Am I late? | |
| 19:01 | llaske | Hi Abhinav. Don't think so |
| 19:02 | abhinav | Hello Lionel :) |
| 19:04 | tch__, around?? | |
| 19:04 | tch__ | I am here |
| 19:05 | lets get started? | |
| 19:05 | abhinav, llaske | |
| 19:05 | abhinav | Sure |
| 19:05 | llaske | Hi Martin, Yes |
| 19:05 | tch__ | abhinav, from what I tested last week I have a few suggestions, |
| 19:05 | abhinav | All ears. |
| 19:06 | tch__ | abhinav, first, it does not make sense to display other users in general, only those who are connected to the same group |
| 19:06 | abhinav | Noted |
| 19:07 | tch__ | abhinav, second, can you use the user's metadata (color, name, etc) to help identify the groups? being able to identify groups is more important IMHO |
| 19:07 | abhinav | As of now, it is done that way only |
| 19:07 | Previously, only color was there | |
| 19:08 | in the most recent version, i have added name too. | |
| 19:08 | tch__ | abhinav, last I tried it, there only was only a number for identifying the goup |
| 19:08 | abhinav, you talking about groups right? | |
| 19:08 | abhinav | yeah |
| 19:08 | check it now | |
| 19:08 | I fixed that | |
| 19:08 | i ll send the link | |
| 19:09 | tch__ | abhinav, ok, another thing, could you solve the issue with the missing collab button? |
| 19:09 | abhinav | rawgit.com/abhinavanurag18/turtleblocksjs/master/index.html |
| 19:09 | tch__ | abhinav, is a bug, and is easy to reproduce |
| 19:09 | abhinav | fixed that too |
| 19:09 | :) | |
| 19:09 | tch__ | abhinav, ok, great, lets give it a try now? |
| 19:09 | ill create the group | |
| 19:09 | abhinav | Sure |
| 19:09 | tch__ | llaske, abhinav can you join? |
| 19:09 | llaske | sure |
| 19:10 | Don't see any active group | |
| 19:10 | seen and join | |
| 19:10 | tch__ | llaske, abhinav I created one now |
| 19:10 | abhinav | joined too |
| 19:11 | tch__ | abhinav, so, what should I see now? |
| 19:11 | abhinav, so far I only see my turtle | |
| 19:11 | abhinav | click on run |
| 19:11 | after adding some blocks | |
| 19:11 | tch__ | abhinav, just did |
| 19:11 | llaske | do you see my drawing ? |
| 19:11 | abhinav | the run button will work in the same fashion as the sync button did before |
| 19:12 | i got it | |
| 19:12 | :) | |
| 19:12 | a forward | |
| 19:12 | tch__ | abhinav, llaske I can only see my own turtle |
| 19:12 | abhinav | then a right |
| 19:12 | and then forward | |
| 19:12 | tch__, dont refresh the page | |
| 19:12 | llaske | I'm seeing two turtle |
| 19:12 | abhinav | if u did |
| 19:12 | tch__ | abhinav, I didn't |
| 19:13 | llaske | one pink (mine) and one green |
| 19:13 | tch__ | abhinav, I only see mine, |
| 19:13 | abhinav, am I supposed to see your turtles too? | |
| 19:13 | abhinav | no |
| 19:13 | only llaske's tyrtle | |
| 19:13 | turtle | |
| 19:13 | llaske | hmmm, the other turtle change color (now blue) |
| 19:13 | abhinav | cant u see it even now? |
| 19:14 | llaske | now magenta |
| 19:14 | abhinav | Yeah, same here |
| 19:14 | llaske | Are you limited to two turtles ? |
| 19:14 | abhinav | No |
| 19:14 | llaske | why the turtle color change so often |
| 19:15 | abhinav | tch__, Still stuck?? |
| 19:15 | tch__ | abhinav, yeah, still stuck, can't see anything, except for my turtle |
| 19:15 | abhinav, all I see in the log is Failed to load resource: the server responded with a status of 404 (Not Found) | |
| 19:15 | js/activity.js:1784 Uncaught TypeError: Cannot set property 'onclick' of null | |
| 19:15 | llaske | ooch |
| 19:15 | tch__ | abhinav, lets switch? llaske can you create the group now? |
| 19:15 | abhinav | tch__, thats fine |
| 19:16 | that error is for something else | |
| 19:16 | llaske | done |
| 19:16 | tch__ | abhinav, ok, any idea why I can't see other turtles? |
| 19:16 | abhinav | i ll join it |
| 19:16 | llaske | llll should be the name |
| 19:16 | tch__ | joining llaske |
| 19:16 | abhinav | llaske, joined |
| 19:16 | tch__ | abhinav, I got this now Uncaught TypeError: Cannot read property 'networkId' of undefinedpresence.js:121 socket.onmessage |
| 19:17 | abhinav | tch__, this is new |
| 19:17 | i ll just see | |
| 19:17 | tch__ | abhinav, i was using chrome, now ill try with firefox, in case is something related to the browser |
| 19:18 | abhinav | tch__, wait |
| 19:18 | Lets try once more | |
| 19:18 | we ll do it in sync | |
| 19:18 | tch__ | ok, |
| 19:18 | abhinav | clear the local storage |
| 19:18 | I ll clear mine too | |
| 19:18 | tch__ | abhinav, done, cleared |
| 19:19 | abhinav | I ll share now |
| 19:20 | tch__ | abhinav, let me know when its done |
| 19:20 | abhinav | shared |
| 19:20 | llaske | joined |
| 19:20 | abhinav | click on active groups now |
| 19:20 | tch__, joined?? | |
| 19:21 | tch__ | abhinav, joined, |
| 19:21 | abhinav, btw, when I click on the group, would be good to have some kind of feedback | |
| 19:21 | abhinav | tch__, can u see the drawing on your canvas? |
| 19:21 | llaske | seen a brown forward 100 turtle |
| 19:22 | tch__ | abhinav, to understand exactly when I am really in the shared session |
| 19:22 | abhinav | llaske, awesome |
| 19:22 | tch__, in the active groups window | |
| 19:22 | llaske | Yes, A third turtle |
| 19:22 | abhinav | it is written "Present Group : Abhinav" |
| 19:23 | llaske | BTW color change very often |
| 19:23 | tch__ | abhinav, yeah, but something better than that.. I click on the group and the appears there but is confusing |
| 19:23 | abhinav, is hard to tell if I joined or what | |
| 19:23 | abhinav | tch__, plus the background color of the collab button also changes |
| 19:23 | Notice the color of collab button after joining | |
| 19:24 | its same as the color of the group | |
| 19:24 | tch__ | abhinav, I see a brown turtle now, and only executes when my turtle does, is that expected? |
| 19:24 | abhinav | Can u see blocks?? |
| 19:24 | llaske | Rainbow turtles :-) |
| 19:24 | tch__ | abhinav, maybe the window should close automatically when it joins |
| 19:24 | abhinav | llaske, the turtle colors are surprising to me too |
| 19:25 | tch__ | abhinav, I only see a brown turtle with forward 100 |
| 19:25 | abhinav, I can't see llaske turtle | |
| 19:25 | abhinav, is there a limit of 2? | |
| 19:25 | abhinav | tch__, thats expected |
| 19:25 | llaske | oops, javascript is down: Uncaught TypeError: Cannot read property 'push' of undefined |
| 19:25 | abhinav | tch__, no |
| 19:25 | llaske | logo.js: 1188 |
| 19:26 | abhinav | I think thats the next milestone |
| 19:26 | To strengthen the collaboration part | |
| 19:27 | tch__ | abhinav, yeah, but don't forget about the improvements we are asking |
| 19:27 | ;) | |
| 19:27 | to the ui | |
| 19:27 | abhinav, ok, so the collab needs a lot of work, since it does not work properly, | |
| 19:27 | abhinav | tch__, only two improvements.. ryt? |
| 19:27 | llaske | Plus, I'm not a big fan of where the shared icon is |
| 19:27 | tch__ | abhinav, what is your plan? |
| 19:27 | abhinav | the closing of box |
| 19:27 | and one more | |
| 19:28 | tch__ | abhinav, only show users that are connected to your session |
| 19:28 | abhinav | tch__, yeah |
| 19:28 | tch__, llaske , about the new milestone | |
| 19:28 | tch__ | abhinav, maybe you can have that "tab" disabled until there is an active session |
| 19:28 | abhinav | I thing we should go ahead with the walterbender's idea of collaboration |
| 19:28 | *think | |
| 19:29 | tch__ | abhinav, can you describe it? |
| 19:29 | abhinav | Sharing turtle output |
| 19:29 | and sharing blocks on request | |
| 19:29 | tch__, sure | |
| 19:29 | By sharing output, I mean | |
| 19:30 | One can only see the output of the turtle code | |
| 19:30 | like, the blocks will not be shared | |
| 19:30 | As of now, I am sending the whole stack as a message | |
| 19:30 | tch__ | abhinav, and how exactly you want to achieve that? |
| 19:31 | abhinav | Which the other client parses and creates the blocks according to that in the local system |
| 19:31 | and runs it finally | |
| 19:31 | tch__, I ll explain it | |
| 19:31 | To achieve that, Lets just send a nick|cmd pair to the other users | |
| 19:32 | For ex. if message is f|100 | |
| 19:32 | tch__ | abhinav, and when it will be sent? during execution? |
| 19:33 | abhinav | on the other user's browser, one can only see a straight line of length 100 |
| 19:33 | along with the turtle | |
| 19:34 | tch__, Yes. During execution | |
| 19:34 | walterbender, Correct me if I am wrong anywhere :) | |
| 19:34 | So, basically, there is a fixed set of nicks | |
| 19:35 | tch__ | abhinav, the idea is OK, but I am wondering if that is technically possible |
| 19:35 | abhinav | It includes all the possible thing a turtle can react to |
| 19:35 | tch__ | abhinav, I mean, |
| 19:35 | abhinav | tch__, Thats how it is implemented in Sugar(Python version) |
| 19:35 | sending the python code | |
| 19:35 | tch__ | abhinav, you can try to broadcast all that info, but I am not sure it will be reliably received |
| 19:36 | abhinav, python version works on lan | |
| 19:36 | abhinav, usually, maybe when connected to a jabber server, | |
| 19:36 | abhinav, but, I wonder how it will behave | |
| 19:36 | abhinav | tch__, May I know whats the basis of your doubt? |
| 19:36 | walterbender | tch__, we lose packets? :( |
| 19:36 | tch__ | abhinav, Imagine a complex code, that sents a lot of instructions |
| 19:37 | abhinav, will be efficient to send one by one? | |
| 19:37 | abhinav, can't tell without numbers, but intuitively id say no | |
| 19:37 | walterbender, abhinav maybe we can send deltas? | |
| 19:38 | time-frame deltas? | |
| 19:38 | abhinav | tch__, Like? |
| 19:38 | tch__ | instead of just "f" |
| 19:38 | abhinav | Didnt get you |
| 19:38 | tch__ | send "ffffffbbbb" |
| 19:38 | not one by one, | |
| 19:38 | but compact more cmds in each message | |
| 19:39 | abhinav | tch__, I m sorry. will you mind elaborating it? |
| 19:39 | walterbender | tch__, we can pack multiple commands into chunks |
| 19:40 | but I don't see how deltas necessarily help | |
| 19:40 | tch__ | walterbender, that is what I am suggesting, |
| 19:40 | walterbender, it might help, but I even then I have my doubts, | |
| 19:40 | walterbender, abhinav llaske , what I think is that sending generated output, it might be too expensive, compared to sending logic and let the other end try to replicate it | |
| 19:41 | walterbender | tch__, I guess I need to understand the issues of latency and packet loss in our implementation |
| 19:41 | tch__, that is what we do... we send the commands and they get executed at the other end | |
| 19:41 | f100r90 | |
| 19:42 | abhinav | tch__, We send logics only |
| 19:42 | I guess | |
| 19:42 | walterbender | but we do send f100r90f100r90f100r90f100r90 to draw a square since we only send what the turtle does, not the other program logic |
| 19:42 | tch__ | walterbender, abhinav , yes and no, you send code, but at the same time your sending the output of executing the code (cmd by cmd) |
| 19:43 | walterbender | tch__, yes |
| 19:43 | tch__ | walterbender, it would be cheaper just to send the whole code first, and then execute it in the other end |
| 19:43 | walterbender | and it can turn into a firehose |
| 19:43 | abhinav | +1 |
| 19:43 | tch__ | walterbender, then we could see how to mimic some sort of synchronzation |
| 19:43 | walterbender | tch__ I guess so... and just send the run events |
| 19:44 | tch__ | walterbender, yes |
| 19:44 | walterbender, run, stop, clear, re-locating-the-turtle, etc | |
| 19:44 | walterbender | but abhinav, I'd like to keep that shared code hidden |
| 19:44 | tch__ | walterbender, yes, |
| 19:44 | walterbender | and only show stacks explicitly shared |
| 19:44 | because otherwise it gets very cluttered and hard to manage | |
| 19:44 | tch__ | walterbender, true, |
| 19:45 | abhinav | tch__, walterbender True |
| 19:45 | But I think If I reuse the code for running the logo | |
| 19:45 | I will have to play with it a lot | |
| 19:46 | As of now, creating the blocks and showing the output are in cohesion | |
| 19:46 | tch__ | walterbender, in general I am in favor of the streaming approach, but considering that the turtles will generate a lot of cmds, it would be too expensive for this case to broadcast all that, |
| 19:47 | abhinav, walterbender llaske so, does it make sense to send the code and then mimic the sync part? | |
| 19:47 | abhinav | tch__, I think turtle outputs will be lesser in size as compared to the code |
| 19:47 | The code conatins data related to placement of blocks as well | |
| 19:47 | But we dont need that. | |
| 19:47 | tch__ | abhinav, the size is not the problem, the problem is the frequency and the latency |
| 19:48 | abhinav | tch__, That remains the same for the code too |
| 19:48 | the frequency of message is not going to change | |
| 19:48 | tch__ | abhinav, no, code just need to be sent once, other events are related to human interaction and happens way less often than cmds generated by code |
| 19:49 | abhinav, so you can reduce the frequency, | |
| 19:49 | abhinav, thus, the latency hit you less | |
| 19:49 | abhinav | tch__, I guess U r missing on some parts |
| 19:49 | Take for example | |
| 19:50 | IF have to share a forward and thats it | |
| 19:51 | According to the old model(sharing of code), All the information related to placement of forward block on the canvas and other irrelevant information will be there in the message | |
| 19:51 | According to the new model, Only "f|100" as a string will be sent | |
| 19:51 | Both of them are sent on the click of the run button | |
| 19:52 | This is the just the minified version of the code only | |
| 19:52 | walterbender, am I right? | |
| 19:52 | tch__ | abhinav, I don't agree, you just need to make a simple calculation to understand what I am saying, say we need 1000 instructions to complete a drawing, it will take less than a second on the browser, but, if you need to send those 1000 instructions over the internet, it will take 1000 x latency time to finish it |
| 19:52 | abhinav, (even if you are lucky of not missing instructions in the middle) | |
| 19:53 | walterbender | tch__, I suppose we just share whenever the run button is hit? |
| 19:53 | abhinav | exactly |
| 19:53 | even with 1000 instruction | |
| 19:53 | walterbender | abhinav, it will be much more similar to what you already implemented |
| 19:54 | abhinav | we need to share code for 1000 blocks |
| 19:54 | walterbender | but the experience will be like what I implemented in Python |
| 19:54 | abhinav | walterbender, true |
| 19:54 | but we will actually gain on the latency point | |
| 19:55 | because of concised message size | |
| 19:55 | tch__ | walterbender, yes, we only need to send all the code once we run, and then just send sync messages, |
| 19:55 | walterbender, no need to send cmds individually | |
| 19:55 | walterbender | abhinav, I think by 1000 instructions, tch__ meant a loop, e.g., repeat 500 forward 100 right 1 |
| 19:55 | tch__ | abhinav, do you understand? |
| 19:55 | abhinav | tch__, Exactly |
| 19:55 | thats what the plan was | |
| 19:56 | tch__ | abhinav, I am still not sure you understand, |
| 19:56 | abhinav, you we talking about sending cmds indivually, | |
| 19:56 | abhinav, s/we/were/ | |
| 19:57 | abhinav | Oops |
| 19:57 | :p | |
| 19:57 | tch__ | abhinav, and I am talking about sending the logic once, and then exec in the other side |
| 19:57 | abhinav | tch__, with you :) |
| 19:58 | Actually I never meant sending commands individually. | |
| 19:58 | tch__ | abhinav, and as walterbender said, it is similar to what you have now, except you don't display blocks and you need to sync some actions across clients |
| 19:58 | abhinav | thats why the confusion |
| 19:58 | Sure | |
| 19:58 | Exactly, it will be done that way | |
| 19:58 | But in the backgroud | |
| 19:58 | tch__ | abhinav, good, |
| 19:58 | abhinav, yes | |
| 19:58 | abhinav | the message will be different |
| 19:59 | Previously, the message included the info about the block | |
| 19:59 | Now, just about the movement and other activities related to the turtle | |
| 20:00 | tch__ | abhinav, but you don't send individual movements ok? you send the whole code, the pure set of instructions that makes that program |
| 20:00 | abhinav | tch__, exactly |
| 20:01 | tch__ | abhinav, ok |
| 20:01 | abhinav | I will send the complete code |
| 20:01 | tch__, One more thing | |
| 20:01 | tch__ | abhinav, we are in the same page then, |
| 20:01 | abhinav | I was discussing it with walterbender too the other day |
| 20:02 | Should we support the joining of multiple group at a time?? | |
| 20:02 | *groups | |
| 20:03 | llaske | No ! |
| 20:03 | tch__ | abhinav, no |
| 20:03 | llaske | it has no sense to be in several groups ! |
| 20:03 | abhinav | Cool. Noted!! |
| 20:03 | tch__ | llaske, not only that, we haven't even make 1 group work properly :) |
| 20:04 | abhinav | tch__, thats one week away :) |
| 20:04 | tch__ | llaske, so we better start by that, even before considering something like that |
| 20:04 | abhinav, ^ | |
| 20:04 | abhinav, but in general, no | |
| 20:04 | abhinav | tch__, :) Cool |
| 20:05 | Along with sharing of turtle output, walterbender also suggested to implementing sharing blocks on demand | |
| 20:05 | walterbender | +1 |
| 20:05 | abhinav | Like Only the stacks I choose to share, I share only that |
| 20:06 | As in, block code of only requested blocks will be shared | |
| 20:06 | tch__ | abhinav, sharing code is a good idea, but lets work on that after we get the basic collab working properly? |
| 20:06 | abhinav | tch__, +1 |
| 20:06 | walterbender | those stacks show up on the others screens and once they are shared, they belong to the other users |
| 20:06 | but yes,... one thing at a time | |
| 20:07 | tch__ | walterbender, +1 |
| 20:07 | abhinav | I will work on sharing turtle output this week |
| 20:07 | Cool | |
| 20:07 | tch__ | abhinav, ok, time to finish our meeting ;) |
| 20:07 | abhinav | Along with the UI changes |
| 20:07 | tch__ | abhinav, walterbender, llaske thank you everyone for coming! |
| 20:07 | abhinav | Thanks everyone for your time :) |
| 20:08 | llaske | Bye. Good luck abhinav. I see you're now working hard. |
| 20:08 | abhinav | llaske, Thanks :) |
| 20:08 | I promise to deliver better :) | |
| 20:09 | llaske has quit IRC | |
| 20:11 | abhinav has quit IRC | |
| 22:33 | gonzalo__ has quit IRC | |
| 23:56 | walterbender has quit IRC |
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