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#sugar-meeting, 2015-04-11

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20:54 tch__ 5 minutes to go? :)
20:54 btw, we just finished translating sugar and toolkit to Guarani ;)
20:54 https://twitter.com/JukyParagu[…]86993374399434753
20:55 walterbender tch__, congrats
20:55 just finished filing taxes :P
20:55 tch__ walterbender, http://translate.sugarlabs.org/gn/
20:55 walterbender, well, thats productive too ;)
20:56 walterbender had to be done by Wednesday...
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21:00 Cerlyn Random fact: At last check I believe Microsoft had unofficial community translations of their products somewhere as well
21:02 walterbender Cerlyn, random is a good characterization
21:03 tch__, shall we get started?
21:03 tch__ #startmeeting
21:03 meeting Meeting started Sat Apr 11 21:03:12 2015 UTC. The chair is tch__. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
21:03 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
21:03 tch__ Hello everyone, thanks for coming :)
21:03 I prepared a few topics...
21:04 * define freezes deadlines
21:04 * revisit unmerged features
21:04 * review our upstreaming and reviewing process
21:04 * provisions for the testing team
21:05 Is anyone interested in adding another topic? I think will be lucky to cover these :)
21:05 german <german!~german@> has joined #sugar-meeting
21:05 tch__ german, hola!
21:05 samdroid tch__: sounds good!
21:06 german hola tch__ ya iniciaron?
21:06 tch__ german, samdroid walterbender Cerlyn jo0nas ping
21:06 walterbender I'm here
21:06 tch__ german, yes, we just did, you got just in time :)
21:06 samdroid pong
21:06 jo0nas pong
21:06 walterbender german, did I convince you re GSoC?
21:06 german walterbender, yes, also i get 2 more people :)
21:07 samdroid tch__: Do you want to start the meeting?
21:07 tch__ we already did,
21:07 :)
21:07 #topic define freezes deadlines
21:07 walterbender german, great... please add yourselves to http://www.google-melange.com/[…]e/google/gsoc2015 ASAP
21:08 tch__ well, based on the conversations from the last meeting, we generally agreed on making a short cycle this time for 0.106...
21:08 the idea to focus generally on stabilization
21:08 I propose something like:
21:08 deadlines: final release (30/06/2015), code (20/06/2015), string+ui+api (30/05/2015) and features (15/05/2015).
21:09 if anyone has questions regarding the meaning of these deadlines feel free to ask..
21:09 walterbender so we have 1 month for features
21:10 tch__ yes, think is too short?
21:10 walterbender no... it will keep us focused
21:11 tch__ yeah, I think so too,
21:11 Cerlyn Is that too short to match the GSoC schedule, or will the students working on new functionality post-0.106 not be a distraction?
21:11 tch__ anyone else?
21:11 Cerlyn, students are focused on javascript this year :)
21:11 samdroid Cerlyn: Looking at the calender,
21:11 tch__ Cerlyn, so very low incidence in this release
21:11 walterbender Cerlyn, I don't think we can count on GSoC for 106
21:11 samdroid Cerlyn: I think that they have their mid-term evaluation after the release
21:12 So everyone is happy with tch__'s suggestion?
21:12 tch__ if we do something for sugar (python) it will make ese to add it to 0.108, since there will be enough time for polishing, testing etc.. GSoC usually brings new features
21:13 samdroid, maybe we can vote? :)
21:13 i say +1
21:13 walterbender +1
21:13 samdroid +1
21:14 jo0nas +0 (i.e. I abstain)
21:14 tch__ haha,
21:14 jo0nas ...but in a positive spirit, so positive zero!
21:14 german i say +1
21:15 tch__ german, great, there is a special topic for testing we can talk then about how we can coordinate with you based on these deadlines
21:15 #action DEADLINES final release (30/06/2015), code (20/06/2015), string+ui+api (30/05/2015) and features (15/05/2015).
21:15 1 sec phone..
21:16 back, sorry!
21:17 #topic revisit unmerged features from 0.104
21:17 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.104/Feature_List
21:17 icarito hi, i'm late - reading backlog
21:17 tch__ I know gonzalo is interested in continuing his performance work for the journal
21:18 samdroid tch__: And all the little GCI things?  https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar/pulls/
21:18 walterbender our big issue IMHO is design review
21:19 tch__ samdroid, we should revise these too, but the important thing is to prioritize features that are backup by people willing to code, specially since the feature freeze deadline is in 1 month
21:19 samdroid walterbender: +1
21:19 tch__: yeah
21:19 tch__ walterbender, if we stick to this deadline, then we should start with the design (yesterday) :)
21:20 #action ping people interested in adding features in this release to share their current design in ML?
21:20 so we can start discussing ASAP
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21:20 samdroid Ok, going from the top:
21:20 walterbender who will review the designs?
21:20 samdroid * Join limites is merged
21:21 * Update favourites is merged?  walterbender?
21:21 tch__ walterbender, well, we don't have a formal design team anymore
21:21 walterbender, so it will be us...
21:21 samdroid * The activity intents has a patch, demo but not a pull request?
21:22 https://github.com/manuq/sugar[…]activity?expand=1
21:22 walterbender tch__, can we take an action to make a new design team?
21:22 samdroid https://github.com/sugarlabs/s[…]activity?expand=1
21:22 tch__ #action recruit a new design team !
21:22 do you know anyone who could be interested?
21:22 everyone*
21:22 icarito is this something subject to recruiting?
21:22 i'm just saying, sugar's design is pretty special
21:23 tch__ icarito, well, someone has a to step in
21:23 icarito i'm just wondering if a simple call for volunteers will suffice
21:23 tch__ I was referring to recruiting for the team, does not mean it has to necessary be some one new to sugar
21:24 samdroid tch__: But new people is good :)
21:24 tch__ samdroid, of course, but is not a requirement
21:24 that is all I am saying
21:24 ;)
21:24 icarito tch__, it would be good if we had some goals, with design restraints / guidelines
21:24 it would be simpler for a design team
21:24 tch__ icarito, do you want to volunteer to prepare something like that?
21:25 icarito, to prepare the guidelines at lines,
21:25 at least*
21:25 icarito * simpler for a design team if development team or feature owners would have specific objectives
21:26 tch__ icarito, we have a lot of docs regarding design, made by Gary M.
21:26 icarito for a volunteer design team is that volunteer developers will work on their pet projects
21:26 tch__ icarito, the issue is no one has the time to revise that and update it
21:26 icarito so an overarching vision is important
21:26 tch__ time or the will..
21:27 icarito, of course, but someone has to step in or someone should look for the people who can do it,
21:27 icarito, want to help with that?
21:28 icarito tch__, I would but I'm afraid my design views might not be 100% the same as the original designers
21:28 tch__ icarito, I would love to convince manu and gary to come back ;)
21:28 anyway, I think we have stated the importance of this topic...
21:28 lets move on
21:28 samdroid icarito: Changing the style a bit isn't a harrible thing!  It makes everything feel fresh!  Anyway, it is what they do in android and GNOME :)
21:29 tch__: Can I ask you...
21:29 tch__: Manuq made a nice looking intent system
21:29 tch__: https://github.com/manuq/sugar[…]activity?expand=1
21:29 tch__: https://github.com/sugarlabs/s[…]activity?expand=1
21:29 tch__: But there was no pr
21:29 tch__: Was there something that was horribly wrong?
21:30 tch__ samdroid, honestly, I barely remember, if you think it is worth to look at it, can you help?
21:30 darkprince has quit IRC
21:30 samdroid tch__: Yeah
21:30 tch__ samdroid, awesome,
21:30 icarito sorry I have a question, do we still support bitfrost?
21:30 samdroid #action sam to review the intent system
21:30 icarito i.e. sandboxes and other stuff?
21:31 Cerlyn I don't think bitfrost has been turned on since the early days of Sugar
21:31 tch__ samdroid, walterbender, icarito  maybe we can distribute the review of previous feature proposals between us?
21:31 samdroid tch__: ok
21:31 walterbender +1
21:32 icarito tch__, I can do my part but it will be first time reviewing
21:32 tch__ #action  ok, ill make a list and send it to the ML with suggestions of who could review it (nothing written in stones thouh)
21:32 icarito, :)
21:34 icarito, regarding the feature you mention to select language during first boot, do you someone who can work on that?
21:34 (I am missing a lot of words, haha)
21:34 icarito tch__, it would be me, although alsroot has manifested interest in this feature
21:34 tch__ icarito, can you prepare a feature entry for http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features ?
21:35 icarito 1m is a short timewindow but I think I can make it
21:35 tch__ icarito, nice! will be awesome to see alsroot contributing again
21:35 icarito I think I'll update original Feature page written by alsroot in 2011
21:35 tch__ haha, that works
21:36 ok, lets move on to the next topic...
21:36 samdroid tch__, walterbender: what is your opinion on the cordova feature?
21:36 It seems to be attracting lots of GSoC projects, but it is not merged!
21:37 tch__ samdroid, I think it had some technical issue to resolve,
21:37 samdroid, gonzalo reviewed it
21:37 the feature itself makes sense, considering we are going for javascript...
21:38 samdroid, lets leave the discussion for the ML?
21:38 samdroid tch__: ok.  From my memory it was such a mess :)
21:38 #action discuss cordova on the ml
21:38 or, just 1 more thing...
21:38 walterbender: How is bulitin board going?
21:38 tch__ my email will hopefully a bunch of these reviewing processes haha
21:38 walterbender I'd like to finish the chat overlay for 106
21:39 but not the other features
21:39 samdroid yeah
21:39 tch__ walterbender, ok!
21:40 next topic is..
21:40 #topic review our upstreaming and reviewing process
21:40 icarito walterbender, chat overlay would be for share activities, and also for neighbourhood / groups view?
21:40 was reading the old HIG
21:40 samdroid tch__: We have a review process?  Do we have like some standard?
21:41 walterbender icarito, it is for shared activities
21:41 tch__ A few years ago we had formal reviewing process, http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/D[…]_Team/Code_Review
21:41 walterbender we have chat itself otherwise
21:41 icarito walterbender, in the original HIG it describes an overlay for each view
21:42 tch__ when we switched to Github most of the reviewing process moved to Github, and I personall think it is for good..
21:42 icarito where participants would be according to the view scope
21:42 walterbender icarito, I'll take a look... but I won't be doing that for 106
21:42 samdroid tch__: We definatly don't add everything to the bug tracker these days :)
21:42 icarito I just mention it because it was prominent in the HIGs and sounded like a great feature to look forward to
21:42 samdroid tch__: Not that trac makes you wanna use it
21:43 walterbender FWIW, there is someone working on adding paint back into Chat... a feature we lost circa 2007
21:43 tch__ now, we an informal way of doing it, which is OK too, but would be good to have some basic formality, ie., like having a peer to review it.. and also update that page..
21:43 walterbender, icarito any thoughts on this? :)
21:43 samdroid, ^
21:44 we don't have the same amount of developers as we did, but would be good to put it d.sl.o at least
21:44 walterbender I think we should leverage the github infrastructure if only because we a re short of hands to maintain our own
21:44 samdroid tch__: IMHO, most of the stuff that isn't about sending the patches to the ml pretty common sense
21:45 tch__ samdroid, "common sense is the least of senses"
21:45 haha
21:45 samdroid :)
21:45 tch__ terrible translation, but is true
21:45 icarito least common
21:45 tch__ icarito, thanks ;)
21:45 samdroid But we could just bottle up all your advice that you give on github tch__ and post it on that page!
21:45 walterbender called common because it is so rare
21:46 samdroid "Inspirational Quotes From Tch"
21:46 tch__ samdroid, that would suck,
21:46 walterbender tch__, as I feared I need to disappear in a few minutes
21:46 samdroid But you and gonzalo give lots of good advice :)
21:46 walterbender "That would Suck: Inspirational Quotes from TCH"
21:46 tch__ samdroid, but I don't know, just a couple lines saying "hey send your PR, your commit message must look somewhat like this, and you need one maintainer to ACK it"
21:47 walterbender, one more thing,
21:47 before you go,
21:47 walterbender to me the place we break down in is the quality of the commit messages
21:47 samdroid tch__: And we could probably keep most of the "Proposal" section
21:48 tch__: BTW: we need to put a link to where ever out guide is in a file "CONTRIBUTING.md"
21:48 tch__ walterbender, icarito samdroid also, can we agree on "we use github merge" vs "we merge it manually and then push"?
21:48 walterbender tch__, I never understood why we were insisting on manual merges
21:48 samdroid tch__: Because github puts a bubble above the pull request window that says "Hey, you should read CONTRIBUTING.md"
21:48 tch__: "we merge it manually and then push"
21:49 icarito tch__, i don't expect it will be me doing the merging but if I run into it i'll pay attention :-)
21:49 tch__ samdroid, as long as is visible I am ok.. I would prefer to have in d.sl.o
21:49 samdroid 'cause you can't test if you juct click a button!
21:49 tch__ one place, to find these things
21:49 samdroid tch__: Yeah, but put a link...
21:49 in the file
21:49 walterbender samdroid, presumably we are not merging without testing
21:49 tch__ walterbender, hopefully not,
21:49 but my point is, can we agree on doing it in one way?
21:50 walterbender but sometimes it is PITA to do the manual merge
21:50 tch__, I defer to you as release manager
21:50 tch__ walterbender, I think Daniel N. presented different alternatives to do it,
21:51 #action I will review Daniel's proposals and others to get a friendly but unified way or merging changes
21:51 walterbender need to go... will read the log
21:51 tch__ walterbender, ok, thanks for coming walter!
21:51 we are running out of time, lets move to the last topic ;)
21:52 #topic provisions for the testing team.
21:52 german, you still there? :)
21:52 german, if I understood correctly, you volunteer to coordinate tests hehe
21:52 german, is that correct?
21:52 german yes tch__
21:52 tch__ german, is there anything you need from us?
21:53 german i will create a team here in nicaragua for testing this new version of sugar
21:54 tch__ german, awesome, can you prepare some description on how you plan to do that?
21:54 german all tickets are on bugs.sugarlabs.org?
21:54 samdroid german: yeah
21:54 german: all the bug tickets
21:55 tch__ german, yes, you could use a special tag for your tickets maybe?
21:55 german ok, i can do that, let me talk with this people next week and i will send an email on sl-ml
21:55 tch__ german, great, keep in mind the deadlines we mentioned earlier
21:56 german, and try to think what kind of assistance you need from us, ie., images for xos?
21:57 german i need a repo with development package of sugar
21:57 tch__ german, for what platform?
21:58 german so i can create images for XO's, also for code deadline i can create a beta image and test it with teachers and kids
21:58 tch__ german, that would be ideal!
21:58 Cerlyn which Fedora/Ubuntu version(s)
21:58 tch__ Cerlyn, good question
21:58 german right now xo4 i based on f20
21:59 tch__ is anyone else interested in something like this?
21:59 Cerlyn My primary desktop is back online after a hardware failure so I could focus on building generic images again (if anyone actually is looking at them)
21:59 tch__ Cerlyn, generic based on?
21:59 german i think that 1.5 xo is faster to create images, but i will try to support 1.75 and 4
22:00 tch__ satellit_e, provides fedora packages always available in koji
22:00 Cerlyn tch__: Not deployment specific; I've been doing F20, although painfully through ARM emulation
22:00 tch__ jo0nas, is working on debian packages now :)
22:00 quidam, provides packages for trisquel
22:01 jo0nas technically I've worked on that since 2008, but yes - I am (quite) more active now again
22:01 tch__ Cerlyn, want to volunteer to get these packages for german?
22:01 jo0nas, sorry, yes, I should have said "updated packages now"
22:01 icarito i'm proud to have written and motivated jo0nas
22:01 tch__ haha
22:02 jo0nas :-)
22:02 I am happy there is an interest in the Debian work
22:02 Cerlyn tch__: I'm not that familiar with RPM packaging; would have to look into it
22:02 I'm having enough fun reverse engineering what OLPC did since they don't say much publicly
22:02 tch__ Cerlyn, we can help, gonzalo and I are very familiar with that
22:03 jo0nas I lost interest in the past as I felt few really cared about Debian in the Sugar community
22:03 Cerlyn We really need to get pbrobinson backup as well
22:03 tch__ yes
22:03 Cerlyn s/backup/additional help/ (clarification)
22:03 tch__ absolutely
22:04 Cerlyn, give it a thought and write to me if you are interested
22:04 Cerlyn ok
22:04 tch__ Cerlyn, thanks!
22:05 well, I think we ran out of time, sorry if I had to speed up things! but we miraculously covered all topic I prepared..,most of the details can be extended in ML
22:05 jo0nas Let me mention - for the record - that Debian packaging is from now on done in a Sugar Team: https://wiki.debian.org/SugarTeam
22:05 ...for those interested in following that more closely
22:05 tch__ #action german is sending a email to the ML with details for the testing
22:06 #action we should provide packages for german for XO4 fc20
22:06 jo0nas, thanks for that :)
22:06 jo0nas s/a Sugar Team/the newly formed Debian Sugar Team/
22:07 tch__ is there anything to add before I end this meeting?
22:07 jo0nas like the old OLPC Team it still basically consists of me - but several of you here have shown interest
22:07 tch__ jo0nas, gabble collaboration is working again ;) its actually running pretty good!
22:08 jo0nas good to hear!
22:08 tch__ jo0nas, walterbender samdroid Cerlyn german icarito thanks for coming!
22:08 german tch__, nothing from mi side :)
22:08 tch__ ok, lets count down!
22:08 5
22:09 icarito thanks everybody
22:09 samdroid 4
22:09 jo0nas 3
22:09 tch__ 2 ;)
22:09 german 1
22:09 jo0nas icarito: zero is still vacant
22:09 icarito 0!
22:09 tch__ #endmeeting
22:09 meeting Meeting ended Sat Apr 11 22:09:45 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
22:09 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-11T21:03:12.html
22:09 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]15-04-11T21:03:12
22:11 tch__ time to drive back to Asuncion
22:12 icarito, sugar in Guarani https://twitter.com/JukyParagu[…]86993374399434753
22:14 icarito tch__, super!
22:14 did you find the manual useful?
22:16 tch__ icarito, I have to admit these volunteer jumped right to using pootle, they didn't give time to explain much xD
22:16 icarito, it was all "on demand"
22:16 icarito did you translate activities as well? 6 hours is pretty fast
22:16 tch__ icarito, some, but we focused on sugar and toolkit
22:17 yeah, but we were 15 people at the best moment working in paralell
22:17 intenso ;)
22:18 Cerlyn I know I sound like a broken record, but for 0.107 maybe we should focus on features that will maintain & expand Sugar's audience.  I don't see much dicussion done in those terms
22:19 samdroid Cerlyn: Do you have the ideas for those features?
22:19 Cerlyn: Web Stuff?
22:20 tch__ has quit IRC
22:20 Cerlyn I honestly don't know anymore.  I was kept somewhat insulated from the actual communities OLPC was trying to sell XOs to or support
22:21 Something like Cordova which allows skills for other projects to be used to easily make Sugar projects.  Better Sugar/third-party app integration.  Make it so any Sugar app can run standalone in a failsafe 'outside of Sugar mode' and not just certain ones like TurtleArt
22:27 german has left #sugar-meeting
22:33 samdroid Cerlyn: Yeah that would be nice
22:34 Cerlyn: It would be nice to merge sugar toolbar and GNOME header bar :)
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22:46 samdroid gonzalo_: Hey!
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23:39 icarito Cerlyn, +1 on that one
23:39 i.e. running sugar activities outside sugar
23:59 satellit is there a fedora wrapper for this?

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