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#sugar-meeting, 2014-07-18

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13:12 bashintosh G'day!
13:12 gonzalo__ anybody here for the meeting?
13:13 hello bashintosh
13:13 bashintosh gonzalo__: sorry I am late
13:13 llaske hi
13:13 walterbender hi
13:14 no tch?
13:15 gonzalo__ bashintosh, waitng for tch
13:16 bashintosh probably here soon gonzalo__ walterbender
13:20 gonzalo__ while we wait, i was organizing the features pages
13:20 walterbender gonzalo__, those pages always seem to sprawl
13:21 gonzalo__ added more features we worked on 0.102 to http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.102/Feature_List
13:21 and moved the features finished to FeatureLanded category
13:22 now we have only 59 features pending http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Category:Feature
13:22 walterbender *only*
13:23 llaske Could had the PhoneGap container that should land at the end of GSoC
13:23 add
13:23 gonzalo__ llaske, you can create a new Feature page
13:24 walterbender, used to be more than 100 :)
13:24 llaske Yep, I put it my TODO
13:24 tch__ <tch__!~tch@181.40.106.113> has joined #sugar-meeting
13:25 gonzalo__ hello tch__!
13:25 bashintosh tch__: welcome!
13:25 walterbender hi tch__
13:25 tch__ hello everyone
13:25 walterbender shall we get started?
13:25 gonzalo__ yes! :)
13:26 tch__ thanks for waiting
13:26 gonzalo__ (enthusiastic yes)
13:26 walterbender everyone, for those who don't know, tch is our release manager for 104 :)
13:27 tch__ (and it gets late to the meeting he called for, great start!)
13:27 bashintosh tch__: congrats!
13:27 tch__ :)
13:27 walterbender missed the meeting he called for yesterday :P
13:28 tch__ did we started the meeting cmds?
13:28 walterbender tch__, nope
13:29 gonzalo__ tch__, would you like to share the agenda, or points we want to talk?
13:29 tch__ #startmeeting
13:29 meeting Meeting started Fri Jul 18 13:29:08 2014 UTC. The chair is tch__. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
13:29 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
13:29 tch__ gonzalo__, of course,
13:29 well, basically I have 3 main topics...
13:30 the first one is about, "what" should we do for Sugar 0.102... or what _can_ we do actually...
13:30 the second is about "how",
13:30 so we can discuss about the development process itself, deadlines, releases, etc
13:30 and lastly, but not less important, infrastructure needs
13:31 there missing things like moving repos, to bring pootle back to life..
13:31 shall we start by the first one then :)?
13:31 walterbender tch__, 102 or 104?
13:31 tch__ 104 :)
13:32 walterbender #topic goals for 104
13:32 tch__ I would like to share my view on this topic a bit
13:32 walterbender +1
13:33 tch__ 102 was a lot about adding some new features and lots of fixes, and I think we did an awesome work,
13:33 but I have the feeling that we are missing some mid to long term goals
13:33 walterbender *lots* of fixes
13:34 tch__ to give an example
13:34 if someone asked me: what would _you_ like to focus for 104
13:34 id say, fix collaboration, for example
13:34 because is something it will take time
13:35 and is extremely important for Sugar
13:35 but that is just an example,
13:36 I think we need some mid to long term goals, to guide us during the next development fase
13:36 walterbender tch__, would you like us to chime in with our similar wishes?
13:36 tch__ yes
13:37 walterbender tch__, fixing collaboration is a great goal
13:37 tch__, some other things I would like to see:
13:37 (1) there is an interesting trade-off to be made between providing eye candy and leaving Sugar incomplete for our users to complete themselves
13:38 I'd like us to take a close look at how to make Sugar more end-user customizable without overspecifying its look and feel
13:39 (2) there are still lots of places where we are overly dependent on text
13:39 tch__ walterbender, low floor, high ceiling? :)
13:39 walterbender I'd like to review many of the views -- samdroid is doing this in the Journal -- to make them more graphical
13:40 (3) I'd like to move all of the CP section into apps and made them as a separate homeview
13:40 ignacio, has done some of this work
13:41 (4) I'd like some way of customizing Sugar in the same way we can "duplicate" and customize apps
13:43 gonzalo__ walterbender, done?
13:43 walterbender yes :)
13:43 tch__ walterbender,  I see a pattern, as I see, overall, it is to make sugar more encouraging for user-based to create (from apps to sugar itself)
13:43 walterbender tch__, yes
13:44 gonzalo__ tch__, my wishlist:
13:44 * solve performance issues: one part is land the journal optimizations
13:45 this could be important to make easier to small deployments using the old xo-1 use newer sugar
13:45 tch__ gonzalo__, +1, in Py we still have lots of XO1
13:45 gonzalo__ * implement text to speech in the toolkit: remove a lot of duplicated code in activities, and make them start faster
13:46 tch__, and i was reviewing the feature pages, and looks like there are some low hanging fruits to take
13:46 finished
13:47 tch__ taking notes
13:47 bashintosh, what about you matthew?
13:47 btw, who else is joining us?
13:48 llaske I'm here
13:48 tch__ llaske, hola!!
13:48 llaske Hi !
13:49 bashintosh tch__: I would like to think about printing to be honest - a feature that is really missing and that would be great in schools
13:49 tch__: screensharing is another thing that always fascinates me
13:50 walterbender recalls his conversations with bashintosh, about VNC server :)
13:51 bashintosh :(
13:51 I mean :)
13:51 now I use nx :)
13:51 tch__ bashintosh, printing is definitely something deployments have been asking for, since a LONG time
13:51 bashintosh, I feel in fault with Caacupe in that regard,
13:53 bashintosh, when you say screensharing, what would you do differently from using vnc activity?
13:53 bashintosh tch__: yes, in AU deployment we had many schools even willing to wait, but really keen to tell kids "yes, you can print your doc"
13:53 walterbender tch__, do you want to discuss the details now?
13:54 or still solicit ideas?
13:54 gonzalo__ probably is better don't start discussing details now
13:54 tch__ I think we should gather ideas for now, only the details to make sure we understand what people is suggesting
13:54 bashintosh tch__: it's probably some kind of better integration really, VNC activity feels somewhat not fully "embedded" in Sugar yet
13:54 tch__ bashintosh, ok
13:55 llaske, how about you :) with your amazing sugar to the web effort, I am sure you have your view !
13:55 llaske Sure.
13:55 You now my mission, my crusade:
13:55 Sugar everywhere: laptop, tablet, smartphone, browser, …
13:56 Of course it's a far target
13:56 But my wish is to ensure that every new Sugar feature could be think to be ported easily on a other platform.
13:56 When you told about collaboration for example, I think we need to fix (rethink ?) it to ensure we could collaborate with something in a browser.
13:57 So, may be a web socket collaboration based API could be an interesting solution here.
13:57 I would love too to have a roadmap about migration of main Sugar activity into web activities
13:58 gonzalo__ websocket libraries fro python are available now
13:58 llaske It will ensure us a way to prepare the future
13:58 walterbender llaske, "main Sugar activity"?
13:58 tch__ llaske, I still thinking about it, from one POV i feel like we should completely re-work collab, but then, I see we have some many great activities depending on the current model.. and being realistically we won't be able to port all of them to something new
13:59 llaske we could think to a portability layer
13:59 tch__ llaske, what I am trying to say is that we need think it this carefully, and being very conscious of the pros and cons for whatever we decide
13:59 llaske, that could be an option,
14:00 llaske I don't want to rethink Sugar from scratch. My point of view is that we need to think about a transition layer
14:00 and sugar-web is a good way to think about this transition
14:00 all my work on Sugarizer is based on this idea
14:01 main Sugar activity = core Sugar activities
14:01 Write, Paint, TurtleArt, ...
14:01 walterbender llaske, gotit :)
14:01 llaske, some progress on Turtle :)
14:02 llaske TurtleJS is great. I would like to have more time to contribute on this
14:02 I've talked to Bert about EToys too
14:03 That's all for my wish. Sorry to be disturbing :-)
14:03 tch__ llaske, great stuff :)
14:03 walterbender anyone else with ideas for tch__ 's topic #1?
14:03 gonzalo__ llaske, good points
14:04 tch__ In general terms, I think we 3 general goals (1) make Sugar core ideas work (collab, customizations), (2) improve performance and (3) help deployments with the day to day needs
14:05 as always, is not possible to do everything, but we can have these goal in mind to prioritize
14:07 another important things is to have people (invidually or in groups) wanting to take the responsibility for specific goals
14:08 not sure if you would like to discuss that now? ;)
14:08 probably not, since it requires talking about details
14:08 walterbender thinks it is interesting that no one brought up assessment :)
14:08 tch__ but we could assign working groups?
14:08 walterbender tch__, "how" is your second topic :P
14:08 are we ready for how?
14:09 gonzalo__ walterbender, 0.102 assesment?
14:09 walterbender gonzalo__, no... I mean student assessment
14:09 Harvest ++
14:09 gonzalo__ walterbender, harvest == statistics?
14:09 tch__ to bad sameer is not around!
14:10 walterbender seems as though there is lots of effort in that space, especially in the school-server space
14:10 and there are lots of half-baked ideas
14:10 but maybe Sugar could take the lead in providing a positive model for the learner
14:11 gonzalo__ may be if we have a better implementation of collaboration in 0.104, we can focus in sugar <-> schoolserver integration n 0.106
14:12 tch__ it would depend on the extend for what "collab" stand for
14:12 gonzalo__ in general we have a lot of starts with services (or cloud services) but not a well rounded solution
14:12 tch__ I did not think about that way
14:12 walterbender brb
14:13 tch__ gonzalo__, the webservice effort is still not very mature,
14:13 gonzalo__ i agree
14:13 tch__ gonzalo__, and we still don't have a strong use case
14:14 gonzalo__ tch__, what about your journal integration stuff?
14:14 tch__ gonzalo__, yeah, I think the journal backend stuff could be improved too
14:14 gonzalo__, to allow different backends
14:14 gonzalo__, the current "model.py" does not make this easy
14:15 gonzalo__, but that is a big task too, and we need a real use case to understand what we need
14:16 gonzalo__ tch__, finishing the particular features. i would like we follow more the feature process in 0.104
14:16 tch__ gonzalo__, you mean the protocol for adding features?
14:17 gonzalo__ tch__, in 0.102, we published the feature pages, and started worked without discussing
14:17 tch__ gonzalo__, yes, and a people did not like that..
14:17 gonzalo__, it was chaotic too, from the development POV
14:17 gonzalo__ count as people :)
14:17 tch__ wonders (haha)
14:18 thats why this kind of meetings are important
14:18 there will always be emergent needs
14:18 we but need some guidance
14:18 gonzalo__ tch__, yes, and we need these meeting periodicallly
14:18 tch__ something to aim for
14:18 I don't mind doing this weekly or every 15 days
14:18 gonzalo__ maybe once by month is enugh
14:19 or two :)
14:19 tch__ it will depend on how we schedule the release phases
14:19 two months could be too late for some discussiongs
14:19 it should happen in ML
14:19 but taking "face to face" sometimes helps
14:20 gonzalo__ tch__, well, that is a qood point, what about the schedule?
14:20 tch__ gonzalo__, that is the next topic :0
14:20 :)
14:20 bashintosh suggests more meetings == shorter meetings
14:20 tch__ is there anyone else to wants to step in?
14:22 ok, lets move on
14:22 #topic roadmap "the how"
14:23 I think 0.100, was the last time we had formal roadmap like http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.100/Roadmap
14:24 persoanlly, I do like the current structure,
14:24 is important to have phases and deadlines
14:24 walterbender +1
14:24 and it forces us to be realistic
14:24 gonzalo__ +1
14:25 bashintosh +1
14:25 tch__ but, is there anything we would like to suggest?
14:25 during 0.102 we had many delays
14:25 and the string freeze did not make much sense, because pootle was dead
14:26 I am trying to imagine if there are things to reoconsider like.. how long should this process be?
14:26 we keep doing 6 months releases?
14:27 walterbender tch__, I think the merit of 6 months remains
14:27 it is commiserate with Fedora and Ubuntu
14:28 and it is not so long that we get overambitious
14:28 gonzalo__ sadly, we are disaligned now with fedora and gnome
14:28 walterbender gonzalo__, we could resync
14:28 gonzalo__ gnome 3.14 will be released on Sept 24
14:29 and F21 on Oct 14
14:29 tch__ gonzalo__, we might fall short for that one,
14:29 for the goals we mentioned at least,
14:29 we could re-release 0.102 until then :P
14:29 haha
14:29 ie., by bringing pootle back to like and fixing strings
14:30 gonzalo__ yes
14:30 tch__ s/like/life
14:30 walterbender tch__ we cannot achieve all of our medium- and long-term goals in one release cycle
14:30 tch__ walterbender, true
14:30 walterbender but it is important to keep those goals in mind when pursuing short-term goals
14:30 gonzalo__ if we define a 6 months cycle, could finish on December
14:31 tch__ walterbender, 6 months should be sufficient for things like printing or making the journal more responsive
14:31 it really depends on how big is the bite
14:32 walterbender tch__,  we should consider a code sprint per release cycle for one or two bigger goals
14:32 tch__ walterbender, +100
14:32 walterbender tch__, we talked about Oct with rgs looking at Collaboration
14:32 tch__ walterbender, yes, that will be a big push
14:32 gonzalo__ walterbender, tch__, we have the event in Uy (Sept) too
14:33 tch__ yes, we can put a goal for each one
14:33 collab is already for oct in SF
14:33 walterbender let's take advantage of these opportunitiies
14:33 what should we target for .UY?
14:35 tch__ I pushed forward collab (i know llaske would like it), maybe gonzalo__ bashintosh should propose it
14:36 llaske :-)
14:36 gonzalo__ tch__, i would like in the performance issues
14:36 tch__ gonzalo__, think we can convince manuq to participate?
14:36 gonzalo__, he was part of your the first session
14:36 gonzalo__ tch__, i hope
14:36 tch__ i agree on performance,
14:37 even if we _only_ get collab to work, and improve performance for 104
14:37 it would be a GREAT release already
14:38 bashintosh tch__: really agree
14:38 walterbender +1
14:39 tch__ so, regarding the the relase deadline, does december sounds reasonable?
14:39 needs to study fedora and gnome deadlines
14:40 gonzalo__ http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/[…]eases/20/Schedule
14:40 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/[…]eases/21/Schedule
14:40 https://wiki.gnome.org/ThreePointThirteen
14:40 the first is wrong
14:41 tch__ gonzalo__, thanks
14:42 gp94 <gp94!uid25529@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ncmseojpwgawbcst> has joined #sugar-meeting
14:42 tch__ we are definitely late for these, but what we could do is to make 104 cycle longer (?)
14:42 haha shorter
14:43 satellit FYI f21 sugar 0.102 (soas) is branched and rawhide is now f22
14:45 tch__ satellit, thanks for the info,
14:45 gonzalo__ tch__, if we want work on collab, may be is better make it longer
14:45 tch__ I really need to understand these cycles
14:45 gonzalo__ tch__, if not, we can make a shorter cycle, and work only in easier features
14:45 bashintosh tch__: not sure if of any interest here but collaboration over scatternet/piconet could be an interesting step in a more reliable "low level" platform
14:45 puneet_kaur <puneet_kaur!~puneet_ka@59.177.39.156> has joined #sugar-meeting
14:46 walterbender maybe we can have an interim release with some bug fixes to lock us back into the cycle
14:46 bashintosh tch__: take note perhaps then we talk..
14:46 walterbender bashintosh, we have been looking at a few other possibities too
14:46 bashintosh, we need to get Rangan to send you to our Oct meeting in SF :)
14:47 gonzalo__ tch__, maybe do a short cycle and finish in Oct 30?
14:47 bashintosh walterbender: please? :)
14:47 walterbender gonzalo__, we have a lot queued up for review we could land in Oct
14:47 tch__ walterbender, you mean 104 for 30 Oct?
14:48 gonzalo__, ^
14:48 honestly, I need to look carefully at the fedora and gnome stuff, to understand exaclty when is the best moment to have these tarballs ready
14:48 gonzalo__ walterbender, we can select a part for this cycle
14:49 tch__ maybe satellit can help me :)
14:49 satellit tch_ I do a lot of the #fedora-qa testing...glad to help if I can
14:50 tch__ we don't need to decide today, lets use some days to think whats best?
14:50 walterbender tch__, we used to try to land some weeks in advance so we had time for bug fixes
14:51 gonzalo__ tch__, we can discuss this on the mailing list
14:51 tch__ yeah, I will send a summary of the topics, so we can continue there
14:51 I think we expoosed the main issues already
14:51 lets move on to the next topic?
14:52 gonzalo__ ok
14:53 walterbender #topic infrastructure
14:53 tch__ pootle is dead
14:53 seriously speaking, pootle was in the middle of a migration process...
14:53 but
14:53 walterbender is it just a server issue or something deeper?
14:53 tch__ it was never finishes
14:54 bernie sent me a lot of stuff
14:54 bashintosh tch__: define migration?
14:54 tch__ starting from "update the new VM for hosting pootle"
14:54 bashintosh tch__: to what, from where, on what? :)
14:54 walterbender tch__, maybe we need a mini sprint with cjl, you, me, and bernie?
14:55 tch__ we had pootle in server called "sunjammer", then someone created  a new one exclusively for pootle, and started moving the platform there
14:55 for some reason, the pootle in sunjammer went down
14:55 and the new one neve rgot up
14:55 at least is easy to say we are stuck in the middle
14:55 haha
14:55 walterbender, +1
14:56 walterbender tch__,  should not be rock science
14:56 it is just software after all :)
14:56 rock^rocket
14:56 tch__ I know, but we need to make sure we know what we are doing,
14:56 like where are the backups
14:57 and how to integrate pootle with our repos etc
14:57 bashintosh tch__: if not the right time to get into details, you know where to find me if I can help :)
14:57 tch__ there was a lot of stuff in the wiki, noisy
14:57 walterbender, gonzalo__ bashintosh can join our sysadmin team :)
14:57 gonzalo__ rock science is geology?
14:57 tch__ maybe there is a science for rock stars
14:58 gonzalo__ tch__, i did some help with the pootle server in the past
14:58 tch__, is not the thing I enjoyed most in my live anyway
14:59 bashintosh walterbender: somehow it is not just software: a hard drive could have gone down, a NIC could have died etc.. :) :)
14:59 tch__ gonzalo__, I will call for a meeting regarding this specific topic for next week
14:59 bashintosh, I am pretty sure the job was not finished,
14:59 bashintosh, it could range from, there backup was never moved to the new server, to simply turn on ngix,
14:59 we dont know
14:59 haha
14:59 bashintosh tch__: is a VM of physical?
14:59 tch__ bashintosh, VM
15:00 bernie, should be able to tell
15:00 bashintosh, I will include you in the loop
15:00 bashintosh thx
15:00 puneet_kaur has quit IRC
15:00 tch__ in terms of infrastructure, anything else you guys can think of?
15:00 i only worried about pootle right now
15:01 (specially for the up-coming sugar in Guarani translation)
15:01 gonzalo__ i think is the most important piece right now
15:01 tch__ ;)
15:01 agreed,
15:01 gonzalo__ what about the work from sam on aslo2?
15:02 i am worried is not guided
15:02 tch__ I haven't have the time to follow it
15:02 gonzalo__ ahh! and talking about that
15:02 i remembered now, we lost our design team probably now
15:02 tch__ we have discourse GSoC project too,
15:03 gonzalo__ tch__, that will be a problem
15:03 tch__ gonzalo__, yes, that is REALLY sad
15:04 people with general + GUI design skills, and, the understanding  of sugar
15:05 gonzalo__ the only solution I see right now, is we take a collective responsibility right now, but would be good if we can involve to Paul Cotton by example
15:05 tch__ paul would be very helpful, we can't speak in his behalf though,
15:05 gonzalo__, can you talk to him?
15:05 walterbender paul has taken some interest
15:05 gonzalo__ tch__, yes, I can
15:06 walterbender I have pointed him at samdroid's work
15:06 and he is involved with the GSoC project
15:06 tch__ we gotta make the best with what have now :)
15:06 gonzalo__ about missing people, the next one who leave, please be open about that, I don't know how, bu we need change this
15:07 tch__ gonzalo__, not sure I understand !
15:07 gonzalo__, you mean to consider the fact that people come and go?
15:08 gonzalo__ tch__, i think if I leave a project where I was deeply involved, I would say goodbay
15:08 tch__ well, not sure what we can do about that...
15:08 gonzalo__ maybe we should elaborate about the responsabilities of maintainers
15:08 tch__ put a timer?
15:08 haha
15:08 gonzalo__ a watchdog :)
15:09 tch__ would be more effective
15:09 yes, I mean, this is a communication problem
15:09 if we had regular meetings
15:09 it would be diferently
15:09 gonzalo__ more seriously, a page "About maintainership" could help
15:10 yes, regular meetings would be a great help I think
15:10 tch__ ok, i will include that in the summary
15:10 so we can seriously consider these meetings,
15:11 gonzalo__ tch__, we need think about the health of the project
15:11 tch__ yes, that is a broader discussion I think, the project is people who make it at the end,
15:11 we need to make we sure WE stay healthy too
15:11 aha
15:12 gonzalo__ true
15:12 tch__ it would be really great if people could lend a couple hours per week at least with guidance for example
15:13 puneet_kaur <puneet_kaur!~puneet_ka@120.57.250.67> has joined #sugar-meeting
15:13 tch__ people like dsd and other former devels
15:14 gonzalo__ :)
15:14 tch__ is a just a happy wish haha
15:14 anyway, I think we are done for today
15:14 gonzalo__ +1, a good start
15:15 tch__ I will make a summary of the topics discussed and send it to the ML
15:15 thanks everyone for coming :)
15:15 gonzalo__ great have llaske and satellit here
15:15 tch__ of course :)
15:15 llaske great to be here :-)
15:15 tch__ gonzalo__, walterbender bashintosh llaske satellit many thanks!
15:15 gonzalo__ i hope we have more people in next meetings
15:16 bashintosh pleasure!
15:16 tch__ #endmeeting
15:16 meeting Meeting ended Fri Jul 18 15:16:41 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
15:16 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-18T13:29:08.html
15:16 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]14-07-18T13:29:08
15:17 satellit tch__ FYI http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Fedora_21#Fedora_21
15:19 tch__ satellit, thanks!
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17:58 walterbender hello all
17:59 martian_ hi
18:00 curiousguy13_ hi
18:00 gp94 hi
18:00 native93 hi
18:00 walterbender shall we get started?
18:01 martian_, can you tell us about your week?
18:01 martian_ I have been working on importing an obj file in ta
18:01 was successful in recreating the scene
18:02 Jade_ <Jade_!~webchat@rev-18-85-44-69.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting
18:02 walterbender martian_, it is fun
18:02 martian_ now to grab elements and make changes,
18:02 walterbender martian_, any luck with that?
18:02 martian_ i have been working on adding corresponding blocks
18:02 i have written the pseudo-code
18:03 need to make some corrections
18:03 walterbender martian_, let's target a release for this week
18:03 martian_ should be done by the weekend
18:03 sure
18:03 i'll start scrubbing my code
18:04 walterbender nice
18:04 curiousguy13_, what were you up to this week?
18:04 martian_ also
18:04 http://web.iiit.ac.in/~anubhav.jaiswal/helix.png
18:05 walterbender, ^
18:05 walterbender martian_, is it packaged as an example?
18:05 martian_ not yet.. need to compile all of those
18:06 i am working on some more
18:06 curiousguy13_ should i start?
18:07 walterbender curiousguy13_, please start
18:07 curiousguy13_ this week was mostly spent on debugging sugar which was having problem building successfully
18:07 solved some of the issues
18:07 one of the errors took me almost 3 days to figure out
18:07 walterbender :P
18:08 curiousguy13_ walterbender, hi wanted to ask how do you guys debug when you do not know where the error is?
18:08 walterbender curiousguy13_, it is as much art as engineering
18:09 rparra <rparra!~rparra@186.0.191.17> has joined #sugar-meeting
18:09 walterbender curiousguy13_, you get a sense of where the error might be and then attack it
18:09 curiousguy13_ hmm... that's what i have been doing
18:09 walterbender curiousguy13_, as often as not you are wrong :)
18:10 curiousguy13_ walterbender, i'll show you my osbuild.log for my current error and you could  help me get a sense of debugging it better...
18:10 walterbender curiousguy13_, I can try
18:10 curiousguy13_ see this... http://pastebin.com/hcBxChWJ
18:11 walterbender curiousguy13_, let's look after the meeting
18:11 curiousguy13_ walterbender, sure
18:12 once i build all the modules i'll start testing them
18:12 puneet_kaur walterbender, please queue me up once all are over :-)
18:12 walterbender puneet_kaur, OK
18:12 curiousguy13_, anything else?
18:13 curiousguy13_ walterbender, nah.. i think that's it :)
18:13 walterbender native93, I think you were next?
18:13 native93 walterbender, sure
18:13 so this week was involved in debugging another error ..
18:14 walterbender story of my life :P
18:14 native93 and also up with the wiki page
18:14 hehe, .
18:14 but got it through
18:14 walterbender, saw my mail ?
18:15 walterbender native93, yes
18:15 it looks good
18:16 native93 so now we can think some plan for the next week
18:16 because I am stuck with the module error
18:16 walterbender native93, we had a preliminary meeting for the next release today
18:16 native93 walterbender,good news ..
18:16 walterbender native93, I need time to wrap my head around it... should be easy... we are overlooking something obvious
18:17 native93 even to me it seems easy .. I overlooked it again .. but no luck with it ..
18:17 so for next week .
18:18 we can think about incorporating it with sugar for the release ?
18:18 till the error gets resolved
18:19 walterbender native93, we should get some design review cooking
18:19 native93 yeah ... we need to get it reviewed ..
18:20 so will wait for the process to start then
18:20 walterbender native93, maybe send an email on sugar-devel with [DESIGN] in the subject
18:21 native93 walterbender, what all should I include in the email ?
18:21 walterbender a link to your wiki page and a request for some design feedback
18:21 native93 walterbender, sure .. will start with that ..
18:22 and were you able to get some demo for it ?
18:23 because I don't find screenshots a good way to depict it  :/ ...
18:23 walterbender native93, maybe make a video?
18:24 native93 walterbender, yeah .. but I can't do testing on my laptop ..
18:24 walterbender native93, not until we fix the Sugar build issue
18:25 native93, did you ever send email to devel about that?
18:25 native93 walterbender, yeah .. I had sent one a month ago ..
18:25 walterbender :(
18:25 native93 and had a discussion with dnarvaez too ..
18:25 walterbender oh... you heard from him?
18:26 native93 only for that mail ..
18:26 and he only suggested to remove sugar-web module ..
18:26 for now ..
18:27 and I think it was two months back .. :P
18:27 and the issue was brought up again by gp94 . .
18:27 but he also had to apply the same thing ..
18:28 walterbender native93, hopefully I will get some time to look into it. I've been way too busy lately :(
18:28 gp94, wanna queue up?
18:28 gp94 sure
18:28 this week updated my blog
18:28 http://gp94me.tumblr.com/post/[…]890/gsoc-update-7
18:29 then read wasn't opening files...so fixed that with gonzalo
18:29 and another issue was brought up with objectchooser not showing the files correctly
18:29 native93 walterbender, np . . if you find time then get a demo for it ..
18:29 gp94 gonzalo solved it, helped in some testing and debugging
18:29 native93 for now I will include screenshots in the mail ..
18:30 walterbender native93, put the screenshots in the wiki and send links in the mail
18:30 gp94, /me read your blog
18:30 as I mentioned before, don't bother with gtk2 apps for now
18:30 gp94 after that had to get the path of documents to copy the sample files to be opened in read
18:31 walterbender: just mentioned it for the record :)
18:31 native93 walterbender, ok ..
18:31 walterbender gp94, Sugar has some legacy code re where files are kept for an old security schema
18:31 very clever, but never fully realized
18:32 gp94 the path the documents could was found in a function in jarabe...that helped :)
18:32 walterbender gp94, yes...
18:33 gp94 but as soon as i open the objectchooser, dbus settings change to that of the journal
18:33 and the ones of the rad are assumed to be hung up
18:33 giving a "GError : timeout in dbind"
18:33 rad^read
18:34 can't figure out much on how to solve it yet :
18:34 walterbender gp94, not sure how to test the object chooser
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18:34 walterbender gp94, we use it in Sugar too... /me wonders if there are tests written for it there
18:35 puneet_kaur <puneet_kaur!~puneet_ka@120.57.250.67> has joined #sugar-meeting
18:35 gp94 yes the change in dbus settings on switching to objectchooser creates the problem
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18:36 gp94 i am thinking of putting the issue to devel once, hoping to get something
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18:37 meeting * MelissaHT-es has joined
18:37 gp94 so after that i worked on some documentation of the tests...
18:37 reubencaron <reubencaron!~reubencar@antitheft.laptop.org> has joined #sugar-meeting
18:37 walterbender gp94, +1
18:37 Jade_, I think you were next?
18:37 gp94 this week i will i am hoping to write the tests for browse and chat...
18:37 that's it :)
18:38 Jade_ I am working on fixing up the code that works with the Arduino microcontroller chip. I have had to fix a few bugs that I encounter when I am trying to work with certain programs. It also has issues when I used it with a Mac because apparently they use a universal keyboard set up and that creates odd characters. That is now fixed.
18:38 I am still fixing up the editing on the youtube videos and the actual PDF tutorial build walk throughs. That is what has been completely eating all my time. I am getting better at it though. My issue is that I am still testing out the durability and safety of the devices and when I make a change on the build, I have to make a change on the video. Most of the time I have to reshoot the video.
18:38 I also had the button device tested by two kids who have autism and there were a bunch of hardware issues of durability that I have fixed that came from observing them. The button caps would pop off and the perf board was not as strong as I hoped it would be and did not hold up when one of the kids put a lot of pressure. I have just gotten lexan plexiglass and I am redoing the video part where I am building the case using that.
18:40 The other issue that I am encountering is that the micro USB cable can come loose from the Arduino and I am still trying to figure out a way to either knot it from the inside or seal it securely
18:40 walterbender brb
18:40 Jade_ ok
18:42 puneet_kaur has quit IRC
18:43 Jade_ I realized that I should have waited on shooting and editing the video until after I did the testing... on the brightside, the whole evolution of the devices is documented
18:44 walterbender Jade_, having the videos is great
18:45 puneet_kaur <puneet_kaur!~webchat@rev-18-85-44-69.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting
18:45 Jade_ I am happy that I have done them, I have just been frustrated with going back and editing them everytime I make a hardware change
18:46 walterbender rparra, ...
18:46 Jade_ I might just redo the whole videos after anyways because I am a total OCD perfectionist when it comes to videos... Thank you
18:47 Have a good weekend
18:47 rparra walterbender, hi, mi turn?
18:48 walterbender yes
18:49 rparra ok, tbh I haven't been able to do much this week. I know it's not much of an excuse, but I presented my thesis defense so my week was hectic
18:49 walterbender rparra, that is somewhat of an excuse :)
18:50 rparra I did look at the code you pushed to Turtle, and though it seems great, I still can't use it for what I want as it is
18:50 thanks for understanding, walterbender, I'll catch up in the next couple of days
18:50 walterbender OK
18:50 puneet_kaur, I guess it is your turn next
18:51 puneet_kaur hi walterbender
18:51 walterbender hi
18:51 rparra can I send you an email with questions/suggestions regarding Turtle changes? I will try to explain better what I need, and what I need it for
18:51 walterbender please tell us about your week
18:52 rparra, sure :)
18:52 puneet_kaur I cmpleted accelerometer, done with getting cordova on windows
18:52 but facing issue with camera
18:52 :(
18:52 rparra thanks walterbender :)
18:52 puneet_kaur I tried with pygame
18:52 I worked well but gotto shift
18:52 walterbender has so much trouble with pygames :/
18:53 puneet_kaur oh ..
18:53 so now I need to get GStreamer
18:53 I am facing difficulties out there
18:53 to get the media stream in the window
18:53 and also
18:53 walterbender gstreamer is nice conceptually but hard to get started
18:53 puneet_kaur :(
18:53 walterbender puneet_kaur, they have a pretty responsive IRC channel
18:53 puneet_kaur but I have done a lot of reading
18:54 oh nice
18:54 on gStreamer
18:54 and I am taking help from record-gtk3
18:54 walterbender puneet_kaur, #gstreamer
18:54 puneet_kaur though I am not that positive :( , it might take some time
18:54 thanks walterbender :-)
18:55 but I am trying all ways I can get hands on
18:55 walterbender on this same irc server
18:55 puneet_kaur oh ya thanks
18:55 record is nice
18:55 just that too large
18:55 walterbender yes... a monster
18:55 puneet_kaur But I have got through most of parts there
18:55 done some hacking on record
18:56 and fetching Ideas
18:56 will ping u and gonzalo when I have doubts
18:56 also I need to update my blog , so will be writing soon
18:56 walterbender sounds good
18:57 puneet_kaur :-)
18:57 walterbender anyone else here to report?
18:57 Aneesh is not here today
18:57 who else am I forgetting?
18:58 thanks everyone for the updates
18:58 Jade_ Thank you, Have a good weekend
18:59 walterbender curiousguy13_, /me looks at your log
19:00 curiousguy13_, did you make changes to the gtk files?
19:01 curiousguy13_ walterbender, nope
19:01 walterbender what had you changed when you did this make?
19:01 curiousguy13_ walterbender, did some changes in em.py
19:02 sugar/data/em.py
19:02 walterbender curiousguy13_, apparently you made some mistakes there :P
19:02 have a diff?
19:02 curiousguy13_ not at the moment :P
19:03 lemme see
19:03 martian_ has quit IRC
19:09 curiousguy13_ walterbender, check this out: https://github.com/curiousguy1[…]riousguy13:master
19:09 Jade_ has quit IRC
19:10 curiousguy13_ ignore all the poop , those are for debugging purposes :P
19:10 walterbender curiousguy13_, I see at least one problem right away
19:11 curiousguy13_ please do tell ...
19:11 walterbender you got rid of the cstringIO import but you still use it
19:11 https://github.com/curiousguy1[…]f0f558cb5caad2L42
19:12 curiousguy13_ walterbender, it's commented :)
19:14 walterbender curiousguy13_, sorry... wasn't easy to see in the diff
19:14 curiousguy13_ no problem
19:14 walterbender but it seems that the problem is somewhere in this file
19:15 curiousguy13_ ok... i'm pretty sure i'll find it eventually
19:16 walterbender, i just wanted to know your strategy for looking for bugs
19:16 walterbender curiousguy13_, you made a lot of changes...
19:16 curiousguy13_ are you looking at only my changes?
19:16 walterbender yes
19:16 curiousguy13_ i don't think that's the right strategy... :P
19:18 walterbender curiousguy13_, generally I try to make my changes incrementally
19:18 lots of changes at once is tough
19:19 curiousguy13_ yeah , i prefer incremental changes and continous testing too but i don't think i had that choice here.. :/
19:20 walterbender you can comment out chucks where you can to get things to the bear minimum
19:21 curiousguy13_ yeah, i guess i could do that
19:22 walterbender, don't worry though ... i'll figure it out
19:22 walterbender good luck
19:22 curiousguy13_ thanks
19:22 :)
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19:46 puneet_kaur walterbender: I might be silly to ask this question , but how do we uninstall a activity from terminal ?
19:46 walterbender puneet_kaur, a Sugar activity?
19:47 puneet_kaur yup
19:47 walterbender you can just rm -r ~/Activities/ACTIVITY_TO_DELETE
19:48 you can also delete activities from the List View option on the Home View
19:48 puneet_kaur oh ya got it
19:48 thanks :-)
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