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#sugar-meeting, 2014-05-23

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Time Nick Message
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18:00 walterbender hello everyone
18:01 gp94 Hey :)
18:01 native93 hello :)
18:02 walterbender not sure who is here... our first official GSoC group meeting
18:02 I need to get the word out that this is a mandatory meeting :P
18:03 gp94, wanna tell us about your week?
18:04 hello? gp94 ^^
18:04 native93, maybe you can start?
18:04 native93 hmm .. I guess so !
18:05 walterbender just a brief summary of what you did...
18:06 native93 so I had been touch with you the whole week .. so in brief .. the panel layout .
18:06 though a bug in it. .
18:06 and currently working on chat interface !
18:07 walterbender native93, I am still trying to chase down your panel layout bug... but it is not important in the short term
18:07 native93, do you have sketches of how the chat interface will work?
18:08 native93 walterbender, I am implementing on the same sketch
18:08 gp94 Sorry facing some network issues here....wrote the basic tests for terminal and log...couldnt contact dnarvaez on irc...awaiting fpr his reply in mail for more detailed tests of them...
18:08 walterbender native93, I guess what I am asking is the interface for entering text in the chat... not clear from the sketch how that works
18:08 native93 probably I will try to finish a basic version of it
18:09 ohh ..
18:09 yeah .. I was thinking to add a toggle button for that too..
18:09 walterbender native93, and how to position the text?
18:10 gp94, let me know if you don't hear from dnarvaez by Monday
18:10 gp94 Ok sure...
18:10 native93 what I have thought till now on that is serially ...
18:10 because random placing is not possible ..
18:10 I am thinking to divide it in tables
18:11 and in each cell .. we can display the text
18:11 walterbender why is random placement not possible? you can use gtk.fixed?
18:11 native93 and if all are filled .. then probably delete on the basis of fcfs ..
18:12 walterbender FIFO :P
18:12 native93 yeah .. it's possible but randomly placing things would mess it up ..
18:12 why not place it randomly in cells
18:12 walterbender native93, I think the advantange of chat on top of the activity is random placement
18:12 native93 yeah .. that's FIFO :P
18:12 won't it mess it up .
18:12 ?
18:13 walterbender native93, not if you can hide it (or move it)
18:13 native93 say the user is pointing to a specific sketch in paint activity .. and the chat box appears on top of it
18:13 hmm
18:13 dragging is a good option .. what I thought earlier was
18:14 clicking anywhere on the box .. would remove it ..
18:14 like it happens in pop ups !
18:15 walterbender in your tile (tables) proposal, how do you prevent the table from being positioned over an area of interest?
18:15 or were you going to shrink (or scroll) the activity window?
18:15 native93 scrolling is not an option ..
18:16 walterbender good
18:16 native93 then .. I think at first I will try with random placement ..
18:16 and if it's fine .
18:16 walterbender sounds good
18:16 native93 one more thing walterbender
18:16 walterbender sure
18:17 native93 I need someone to help me out with this .. I mean I need to check the results ..
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18:17 native93 and I dont have two laptops here :/
18:17 walterbender native93, I can help test
18:17 native93 I asked ignacio to help me out
18:17 okay ..
18:17 walterbender and ignacio will certainly help
18:18 probably anyone around on irc you could recruit
18:18 native93 hmm . better ..
18:18 I will ask ignacio for this ..
18:18 because I will have to debug many things
18:18 and I can't trouble you each time ..
18:20 and I think it should be fine with anyone on irc .
18:21 martian_ walterbender, hi
18:21 walterbender hi martian_
18:21 martian_, can you tell us about your week?
18:22 martian_ walterbender, i spent the week looking into turtleart's codebase
18:22 and tried to render an opengl scene into it
18:22 and showed you the result
18:22 we knwo the problems
18:22 *know
18:23 and i will now look for alternative options for gui in opengl as discussed
18:23 walterbender martian_, but maybe let everyone else know about the issues?
18:23 martian_ walterbender, sure
18:24 walterbender they might have suggestions
18:25 martian_ turtleart uses cairo to render 2d drawings
18:25 my problem here is to remove cairo rendering and add an opengl scene instead
18:27 but removing cairo breaks the support for sprites
18:27 native93 walterbender, If you can do me a favour, then please invite me in the chat's activity . I am looking at the codebase so I actually want to see how it works ..
18:27 walterbender native93, I cannot right at the moment :(
18:28 martian_ I cannot make cairo and opengl render in the same area
18:28 as they have different rendering methods
18:29 Also, removing cairo wouldn't be an easy task as everything on the canvas is drawn using it
18:29 walterbender the way Turtle works is that there is a cairo surface for the graphics and one for the sprites (the program blocks)
18:30 native93 walterbender, sure .. not right now .. add me whenever you get time .. I will have a look at it :)
18:30 walterbender native93, OK... would be late tonight (for you) or tomorrow morning.
18:31 native93 walterbender, no problem .. :)
18:31 martian_ walterbender, the sprites to are drawn on the same drawing area
18:32 walterbender yes... just a different surface
18:35 martian_ thing is, i can't seem to render the sprites on top of glarea
18:36 walterbender martian_, but you could put them in the glarea
18:36 as part of the scene
18:36 thinks it is cool that the program itself is part of the scene
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18:37 gonzalo__ native93, maybe your best option is make sprites library draw in opengl
18:38 sorry, that was for martian_
18:38 martian_ walterbender, as in use functions of opengl to draw them instead of sprite?
18:38 walterbender yes
18:38 martian_ gonzalo__, how do i make use of sprites to draw in opengl?
18:39 walterbender, i can try, opengl does have texture support...
18:40 gonzalo__ martian_, i mean, modify the sprites library to write to opengl
18:40 walterbender gonzalo__, that is the idea we are kicking around... use opengl for everything rather than try to sandwich cairo and opengl
18:40 martian_ walterbender, but I'm not sure they would be interactive
18:40 walterbender martian_, opengl supports interaction, doesn't it?
18:40 gonzalo__ walterbender, anyway, that should be a option, remember opengl support is not easy in the xos
18:41 martian_ walterbender, yes, you can track mouse and keyboard events
18:42 walterbender martian_, should be all we need...
18:42 native93 has quit IRC
18:42 walterbender as long as you can map a mouse coordinate to an element in the scene (a program block) so we can move it
18:43 martian_ walterbender, but to develop a block system similar to existing one
18:43 do you think is it possible in the time we have?
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18:46 walterbender martian_, the alternatives are: (1) a hybrid with Cairo -- not sure yet if it is possible; (2) write a simple 3D package for Cairo and drop opengl altogether.
18:48 martian_ re:(2) .. how?
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18:49 walterbender just some simple 3D to 2D projections
18:49 a bit of trigonometry
18:51 it would involve the least changes to Turtle
18:54 martian_ walterbender, the idea of the project would change then
18:54 walterbender not really
18:54 the idea of the project is 3D logo
18:54 martian_ creating a 3d package would take time
18:54 walterbender martian_, there is hard work to do no matter which path we head down...
18:54 a simple 3D package is only a few days of work
18:55 martian_ walterbender, okay
18:55 walterbender, what about the camera support?
18:55 walterbender that is just an additional projection
18:56 the tricker bits are lighting, textures...
18:56 but less important to the overall project
18:56 martian_ ok
18:57 walterbender, i will need help though
18:57 walterbender I don't have strong feelings one way or another, but if the opengl sprite support becomes too much work, we should consider the alternative
18:57 martian_, help is here
18:57 martian_ walterbender, problem is i am not much aware of cairo
18:57 walterbender hasn't written a 3D package since the late 1970s :)
18:58 the cairo part is easy... still just drawing lines
18:59 the 3D -> 2D transform will make a 2D collection of points for Cairo
19:00 native_ has quit IRC
19:02 martian_ can you give me an outline of the things to do this task?
19:03 walterbender martian_, for approach #2?
19:03 martian_ walterbender, yes
19:03 walterbender we need to define the turtle position in x, y, z
19:03 and whenever we draw, we transform x, y, z to screen x,y
19:04 then call tacanavs as usual
19:04 so we need to write the transform function... that is all
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19:06 walterbender martian_, I am guessing it is easy to find some 3d->2d transform libraries alrready written in Python
19:06 but I haven't looked
19:07 rparra, can you give us a quick update on your week?
19:08 rparra walterbender: hi, sure
19:10 I have been doing lots of stuff actually: first I got everything running with Fedora 20 and pocketsphinx and implemented some simple examples
19:11 I've sketched what the speech recognition API would look like for any Sugar Activity that would like to use it
19:11 walterbender is the sketch somewhere public?
19:12 rparra and also did some benchmarking, trying to find out if it is better to use a centralized (each activity creating a new gstreamer pipeline) or centralized (one gstreamer pipeline that multicasts the results via D-Bus)
19:12 walterbender busy week indeed
19:13 tch haha
19:13 rparra I am meeting today again with tch, and if everything seems ok to him I was planning to make a blogpost (or a series of them :) ) in my personal blog
19:13 walterbender tch is a harsh task master :)
19:13 tch +1 for the blogpost
19:14 walterbender speaking of blogs, it would be good if *everyone* blogged about their projects regularly
19:14 rparra *centralized or decentralized approach, I mean
19:14 if everything is approved, i'll post during the weekend for sure
19:15 satellit_e has quit IRC
19:15 walterbender great
19:15 look forward to reading it
19:17 anyone else here from GSoC who'd like to give an update?
19:19 martian_ walterbender, re 3D -> 2D transform
19:19 walterbender yes
19:19 martian_ im having difficulty visualizing how something would look on screen
19:19 will it be like painter's algorithm?
19:20 walterbender yes
19:20 martian_, here is the first thing google found for me: http://codentronix.com/2011/04[…]ython-and-pygame/
19:20 you can do exactly the same thing using cairo instead of pygame
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19:29 puneet_kaur sorry for being late :-(
19:29 walterbender puneet_kaur, could you give us an update on your week?
19:30 puneet_kaur yup
19:30 started coding for the basic layer of cordova
19:30 moriartyJ has quit IRC
19:30 puneet_kaur incorporated sugar web template in android
19:30 walterbender martian_, http://codentronix.com/2011/04[…]cube-with-python/ is even more like what you want
19:30 puneet_kaur got the basic cordova.js from the cordova-js
19:31 and made minimal implementation for the exec and platform
19:31 function
19:31 martian_ has quit IRC
19:31 puneet_kaur you can find the code here : https://github.com/puneetgkaur[…]r_testWebActivity
19:31 walterbender puneet_kaur, thanks...
19:31 seems like good progress
19:32 martian_ <martian_!~anon@> has joined #sugar-meeting
19:32 puneet_kaur :-)
19:32 walterbender and I know you have been in frequent contact with Lionel
19:32 puneet_kaur yes
19:32 through mail and irc
19:33 I'll be comng up with a blog post soon
19:33 to sum up the progress
19:33 walterbender puneet_kaur, one you have the accelerometer working, maybe you can make the JS version of http://activities.sugarlabs.or[…]/sugar/addon/4488 :)
19:33 puneet_kaur okay
19:34 will look into that
19:34 walterbender just a suggestion of something fun
19:35 puneet_kaur yup most welcome :)
19:35 accelerometer is actually here to support the building of the basic layer of cordova
19:35 we can spread once thats done
19:36 its almost there though
19:37 must say sugar-web plays a huge here
19:37 in development of cordova wrapper :)
19:39 https://github.com/apache/cord[…]s/tree/master/src
19:39 this is the interface we need to interact with
19:40 for common cordova functionalities
19:40 gonzalo__ puneet_kaur, just for curiosity, that is javascript only? how is the interface with the s implemented? node.js?
19:41 s/s/os/
19:41 puneet_kaur yup
19:41 and it interacts with the native
19:41 side
19:41 but the front must be same
19:42 there's a common folder there
19:42 which contains all the code common to all the platforms
19:42 and the platform specific code in their directories
19:43 basically need to write exec and platform js files
19:43 but sugar web makes easier to interact with native side :-)
19:43 gonzalo__ puneet_kaur, would be really nice read about that if you blog something
19:43 puneet_kaur yup
19:43 I need to
19:44 I am really sorry I didn't for a long time
19:50 gonzalo__,  who looks after planet.sugarlabs.org ? is that bernie ?
19:50 and what do I need to do to relay my posts there ?
19:50 Have sent a mail though
19:51 walterbender ?
19:52 walterbender puneet_kaur, /me will look for the instructions in the wiki
19:52 puneet_kaur ok ..
19:53 walterbender http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/S[…]ndication_request
19:54 puneet_kaur ok, Thanks :-)
19:59 martian_ walterbender, can you tell me what exactly did u google for?
20:00 when u sent me that link
20:00 walterbender 3d to 2d transform in Python
20:01 or something like that
20:01 martian_ walterbender, ok
20:02 seems like we can directly use the first class
20:02 which represents the points in 3d space
20:02 with some additions
20:02 walterbender martian_, all you need to do is add a new xyz array to the turtle object and everytime you move the turtle in 3D space, project to 2D and update the x and y coordiantes
20:03 you'll call tacanvas with the 2D coordinates
20:03 you will replace the set heading method with rotation around the Z axis
20:04 everything else should just work
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20:12 martian_ walterbender, i see
20:13 and I was just saying, we will need functions to calculate transformations in 3D
20:14 as the given example supports only rotation about xyz axes
20:14 and not translation
20:15 walterbender translation is just vector addition
20:16 martian_ yes
20:17 gonzalo__ martian_, the problems about how represent 3d in 2d are very common, you need research and read a little
20:17 but is sure you will find resources
20:18 walterbender martian_, BTW, http://cairographics.org/OpenGL/
20:18 not that I recommend that approach
20:18 since the cairo surface would not be easy to interactive with
20:19 martian_ walterbender, i saw that just a while ago
20:19 me neither
20:19 it is the first option you suggested
20:19 walterbender but another option if we need it
20:20 martian_ walterbender, also i tried to find a similar 3d simulation with cairo
20:20 as we have in pygame
20:20 but in vain :/
20:20 guess i will have to try that myself
20:21 gonzalo__, yeah, I'll look for it :)
20:21 walterbender martian_, in the example I pointed you to, pygame is only used for the 2D part of the rendering
20:22 the 3d to 2d projection is handled outside of pygame
20:22 so Cairo would work the same
20:22 martian_ walterbender, i know
20:22 I'll try that with a simple program first
20:23 walterbender so try modifying taturtle.py by adding the projection and xyz (plus rotation in x and y)
20:23 we already have rotation in z (heading)
20:25 martian_ walterbender, isn't rotation in z handled by 'left' and 'right' ?
20:25 walterbender yes and set heading
20:26 martian_ oh, so it is just to set a direction initially?
20:26 and then use left and right later in a program
20:27 walterbender either can be used
20:27 left and right are relative; heading is absolute
20:27 martian_ walterbender, got it
20:27 walterbender needs to go AFK for a bit
20:28 martian_ walterbender, will talk to you tomorrow then
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