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| 18:00 | walterbender | hello everyone |
| 18:01 | gp94 | Hey :) |
| 18:01 | native93 | hello :) |
| 18:02 | walterbender | not sure who is here... our first official GSoC group meeting |
| 18:02 | I need to get the word out that this is a mandatory meeting :P | |
| 18:03 | gp94, wanna tell us about your week? | |
| 18:04 | hello? gp94 ^^ | |
| 18:04 | native93, maybe you can start? | |
| 18:04 | native93 | hmm .. I guess so ! |
| 18:05 | walterbender | just a brief summary of what you did... |
| 18:06 | native93 | so I had been touch with you the whole week .. so in brief .. the panel layout . |
| 18:06 | though a bug in it. . | |
| 18:06 | and currently working on chat interface ! | |
| 18:07 | walterbender | native93, I am still trying to chase down your panel layout bug... but it is not important in the short term |
| 18:07 | native93, do you have sketches of how the chat interface will work? | |
| 18:08 | native93 | walterbender, I am implementing on the same sketch |
| 18:08 | gp94 | Sorry facing some network issues here....wrote the basic tests for terminal and log...couldnt contact dnarvaez on irc...awaiting fpr his reply in mail for more detailed tests of them... |
| 18:08 | walterbender | native93, I guess what I am asking is the interface for entering text in the chat... not clear from the sketch how that works |
| 18:08 | native93 | probably I will try to finish a basic version of it |
| 18:09 | ohh .. | |
| 18:09 | yeah .. I was thinking to add a toggle button for that too.. | |
| 18:09 | walterbender | native93, and how to position the text? |
| 18:10 | gp94, let me know if you don't hear from dnarvaez by Monday | |
| 18:10 | gp94 | Ok sure... |
| 18:10 | native93 | what I have thought till now on that is serially ... |
| 18:10 | because random placing is not possible .. | |
| 18:10 | I am thinking to divide it in tables | |
| 18:11 | and in each cell .. we can display the text | |
| 18:11 | walterbender | why is random placement not possible? you can use gtk.fixed? |
| 18:11 | native93 | and if all are filled .. then probably delete on the basis of fcfs .. |
| 18:12 | walterbender | FIFO :P |
| 18:12 | native93 | yeah .. it's possible but randomly placing things would mess it up .. |
| 18:12 | why not place it randomly in cells | |
| 18:12 | walterbender | native93, I think the advantange of chat on top of the activity is random placement |
| 18:12 | native93 | yeah .. that's FIFO :P |
| 18:12 | won't it mess it up . | |
| 18:12 | ? | |
| 18:13 | walterbender | native93, not if you can hide it (or move it) |
| 18:13 | native93 | say the user is pointing to a specific sketch in paint activity .. and the chat box appears on top of it |
| 18:13 | hmm | |
| 18:13 | dragging is a good option .. what I thought earlier was | |
| 18:14 | clicking anywhere on the box .. would remove it .. | |
| 18:14 | like it happens in pop ups ! | |
| 18:15 | walterbender | in your tile (tables) proposal, how do you prevent the table from being positioned over an area of interest? |
| 18:15 | or were you going to shrink (or scroll) the activity window? | |
| 18:15 | native93 | scrolling is not an option .. |
| 18:16 | walterbender | good |
| 18:16 | native93 | then .. I think at first I will try with random placement .. |
| 18:16 | and if it's fine . | |
| 18:16 | walterbender | sounds good |
| 18:16 | native93 | one more thing walterbender |
| 18:16 | walterbender | sure |
| 18:17 | native93 | I need someone to help me out with this .. I mean I need to check the results .. |
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| 18:17 | native93 | and I dont have two laptops here :/ |
| 18:17 | walterbender | native93, I can help test |
| 18:17 | native93 | I asked ignacio to help me out |
| 18:17 | okay .. | |
| 18:17 | walterbender | and ignacio will certainly help |
| 18:18 | probably anyone around on irc you could recruit | |
| 18:18 | native93 | hmm . better .. |
| 18:18 | I will ask ignacio for this .. | |
| 18:18 | because I will have to debug many things | |
| 18:18 | and I can't trouble you each time .. | |
| 18:20 | and I think it should be fine with anyone on irc . | |
| 18:21 | martian_ | walterbender, hi |
| 18:21 | walterbender | hi martian_ |
| 18:21 | martian_, can you tell us about your week? | |
| 18:22 | martian_ | walterbender, i spent the week looking into turtleart's codebase |
| 18:22 | and tried to render an opengl scene into it | |
| 18:22 | and showed you the result | |
| 18:22 | we knwo the problems | |
| 18:22 | *know | |
| 18:23 | and i will now look for alternative options for gui in opengl as discussed | |
| 18:23 | walterbender | martian_, but maybe let everyone else know about the issues? |
| 18:23 | martian_ | walterbender, sure |
| 18:24 | walterbender | they might have suggestions |
| 18:25 | martian_ | turtleart uses cairo to render 2d drawings |
| 18:25 | my problem here is to remove cairo rendering and add an opengl scene instead | |
| 18:27 | but removing cairo breaks the support for sprites | |
| 18:27 | native93 | walterbender, If you can do me a favour, then please invite me in the chat's activity . I am looking at the codebase so I actually want to see how it works .. |
| 18:27 | walterbender | native93, I cannot right at the moment :( |
| 18:28 | martian_ | I cannot make cairo and opengl render in the same area |
| 18:28 | as they have different rendering methods | |
| 18:29 | Also, removing cairo wouldn't be an easy task as everything on the canvas is drawn using it | |
| 18:29 | walterbender | the way Turtle works is that there is a cairo surface for the graphics and one for the sprites (the program blocks) |
| 18:30 | native93 | walterbender, sure .. not right now .. add me whenever you get time .. I will have a look at it :) |
| 18:30 | walterbender | native93, OK... would be late tonight (for you) or tomorrow morning. |
| 18:31 | native93 | walterbender, no problem .. :) |
| 18:31 | martian_ | walterbender, the sprites to are drawn on the same drawing area |
| 18:32 | walterbender | yes... just a different surface |
| 18:35 | martian_ | thing is, i can't seem to render the sprites on top of glarea |
| 18:36 | walterbender | martian_, but you could put them in the glarea |
| 18:36 | as part of the scene | |
| 18:36 | thinks it is cool that the program itself is part of the scene | |
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| 18:37 | gonzalo__ | native93, maybe your best option is make sprites library draw in opengl |
| 18:38 | sorry, that was for martian_ | |
| 18:38 | martian_ | walterbender, as in use functions of opengl to draw them instead of sprite? |
| 18:38 | walterbender | yes |
| 18:38 | martian_ | gonzalo__, how do i make use of sprites to draw in opengl? |
| 18:39 | walterbender, i can try, opengl does have texture support... | |
| 18:40 | gonzalo__ | martian_, i mean, modify the sprites library to write to opengl |
| 18:40 | walterbender | gonzalo__, that is the idea we are kicking around... use opengl for everything rather than try to sandwich cairo and opengl |
| 18:40 | martian_ | walterbender, but I'm not sure they would be interactive |
| 18:40 | walterbender | martian_, opengl supports interaction, doesn't it? |
| 18:40 | gonzalo__ | walterbender, anyway, that should be a option, remember opengl support is not easy in the xos |
| 18:41 | martian_ | walterbender, yes, you can track mouse and keyboard events |
| 18:42 | walterbender | martian_, should be all we need... |
| 18:42 | native93 has quit IRC | |
| 18:42 | walterbender | as long as you can map a mouse coordinate to an element in the scene (a program block) so we can move it |
| 18:43 | martian_ | walterbender, but to develop a block system similar to existing one |
| 18:43 | do you think is it possible in the time we have? | |
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| 18:46 | walterbender | martian_, the alternatives are: (1) a hybrid with Cairo -- not sure yet if it is possible; (2) write a simple 3D package for Cairo and drop opengl altogether. |
| 18:48 | martian_ | re:(2) .. how? |
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| 18:49 | walterbender | just some simple 3D to 2D projections |
| 18:49 | a bit of trigonometry | |
| 18:51 | it would involve the least changes to Turtle | |
| 18:54 | martian_ | walterbender, the idea of the project would change then |
| 18:54 | walterbender | not really |
| 18:54 | the idea of the project is 3D logo | |
| 18:54 | martian_ | creating a 3d package would take time |
| 18:54 | walterbender | martian_, there is hard work to do no matter which path we head down... |
| 18:54 | a simple 3D package is only a few days of work | |
| 18:55 | martian_ | walterbender, okay |
| 18:55 | walterbender, what about the camera support? | |
| 18:55 | walterbender | that is just an additional projection |
| 18:56 | the tricker bits are lighting, textures... | |
| 18:56 | but less important to the overall project | |
| 18:56 | martian_ | ok |
| 18:57 | walterbender, i will need help though | |
| 18:57 | walterbender | I don't have strong feelings one way or another, but if the opengl sprite support becomes too much work, we should consider the alternative |
| 18:57 | martian_, help is here | |
| 18:57 | martian_ | walterbender, problem is i am not much aware of cairo |
| 18:57 | walterbender | hasn't written a 3D package since the late 1970s :) |
| 18:58 | the cairo part is easy... still just drawing lines | |
| 18:59 | the 3D -> 2D transform will make a 2D collection of points for Cairo | |
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| 19:02 | martian_ | can you give me an outline of the things to do this task? |
| 19:03 | walterbender | martian_, for approach #2? |
| 19:03 | martian_ | walterbender, yes |
| 19:03 | walterbender | we need to define the turtle position in x, y, z |
| 19:03 | and whenever we draw, we transform x, y, z to screen x,y | |
| 19:04 | then call tacanavs as usual | |
| 19:04 | so we need to write the transform function... that is all | |
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| 19:06 | walterbender | martian_, I am guessing it is easy to find some 3d->2d transform libraries alrready written in Python |
| 19:06 | but I haven't looked | |
| 19:07 | rparra, can you give us a quick update on your week? | |
| 19:08 | rparra | walterbender: hi, sure |
| 19:10 | I have been doing lots of stuff actually: first I got everything running with Fedora 20 and pocketsphinx and implemented some simple examples | |
| 19:11 | I've sketched what the speech recognition API would look like for any Sugar Activity that would like to use it | |
| 19:11 | walterbender | is the sketch somewhere public? |
| 19:12 | rparra | and also did some benchmarking, trying to find out if it is better to use a centralized (each activity creating a new gstreamer pipeline) or centralized (one gstreamer pipeline that multicasts the results via D-Bus) |
| 19:12 | walterbender | busy week indeed |
| 19:13 | tch | haha |
| 19:13 | rparra | I am meeting today again with tch, and if everything seems ok to him I was planning to make a blogpost (or a series of them :) ) in my personal blog |
| 19:13 | walterbender | tch is a harsh task master :) |
| 19:13 | tch | +1 for the blogpost |
| 19:14 | walterbender | speaking of blogs, it would be good if *everyone* blogged about their projects regularly |
| 19:14 | rparra | *centralized or decentralized approach, I mean |
| 19:14 | if everything is approved, i'll post during the weekend for sure | |
| 19:15 | satellit_e has quit IRC | |
| 19:15 | walterbender | great |
| 19:15 | look forward to reading it | |
| 19:17 | anyone else here from GSoC who'd like to give an update? | |
| 19:19 | martian_ | walterbender, re 3D -> 2D transform |
| 19:19 | walterbender | yes |
| 19:19 | martian_ | im having difficulty visualizing how something would look on screen |
| 19:19 | will it be like painter's algorithm? | |
| 19:20 | walterbender | yes |
| 19:20 | martian_, here is the first thing google found for me: http://codentronix.com/2011/04[…]ython-and-pygame/ | |
| 19:20 | you can do exactly the same thing using cairo instead of pygame | |
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| 19:29 | puneet_kaur | sorry for being late :-( |
| 19:29 | walterbender | puneet_kaur, could you give us an update on your week? |
| 19:30 | puneet_kaur | yup |
| 19:30 | started coding for the basic layer of cordova | |
| 19:30 | moriartyJ has quit IRC | |
| 19:30 | puneet_kaur | incorporated sugar web template in android |
| 19:30 | walterbender | martian_, http://codentronix.com/2011/04[…]cube-with-python/ is even more like what you want |
| 19:30 | puneet_kaur | got the basic cordova.js from the cordova-js |
| 19:31 | and made minimal implementation for the exec and platform | |
| 19:31 | function | |
| 19:31 | martian_ has quit IRC | |
| 19:31 | puneet_kaur | you can find the code here : https://github.com/puneetgkaur[…]r_testWebActivity |
| 19:31 | walterbender | puneet_kaur, thanks... |
| 19:31 | seems like good progress | |
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| 19:32 | puneet_kaur | :-) |
| 19:32 | walterbender | and I know you have been in frequent contact with Lionel |
| 19:32 | puneet_kaur | yes |
| 19:32 | through mail and irc | |
| 19:33 | I'll be comng up with a blog post soon | |
| 19:33 | to sum up the progress | |
| 19:33 | walterbender | puneet_kaur, one you have the accelerometer working, maybe you can make the JS version of http://activities.sugarlabs.or[…]/sugar/addon/4488 :) |
| 19:33 | puneet_kaur | okay |
| 19:34 | will look into that | |
| 19:34 | walterbender | just a suggestion of something fun |
| 19:35 | puneet_kaur | yup most welcome :) |
| 19:35 | accelerometer is actually here to support the building of the basic layer of cordova | |
| 19:35 | we can spread once thats done | |
| 19:36 | its almost there though | |
| 19:37 | must say sugar-web plays a huge here | |
| 19:37 | in development of cordova wrapper :) | |
| 19:39 | https://github.com/apache/cord[…]s/tree/master/src | |
| 19:39 | this is the interface we need to interact with | |
| 19:40 | for common cordova functionalities | |
| 19:40 | gonzalo__ | puneet_kaur, just for curiosity, that is javascript only? how is the interface with the s implemented? node.js? |
| 19:41 | s/s/os/ | |
| 19:41 | puneet_kaur | yup |
| 19:41 | and it interacts with the native | |
| 19:41 | side | |
| 19:41 | but the front must be same | |
| 19:42 | there's a common folder there | |
| 19:42 | which contains all the code common to all the platforms | |
| 19:42 | and the platform specific code in their directories | |
| 19:43 | basically need to write exec and platform js files | |
| 19:43 | but sugar web makes easier to interact with native side :-) | |
| 19:43 | gonzalo__ | puneet_kaur, would be really nice read about that if you blog something |
| 19:43 | puneet_kaur | yup |
| 19:43 | I need to | |
| 19:44 | I am really sorry I didn't for a long time | |
| 19:50 | gonzalo__, who looks after planet.sugarlabs.org ? is that bernie ? | |
| 19:50 | and what do I need to do to relay my posts there ? | |
| 19:50 | Have sent a mail though | |
| 19:51 | walterbender ? | |
| 19:52 | walterbender | puneet_kaur, /me will look for the instructions in the wiki |
| 19:52 | puneet_kaur | ok .. |
| 19:53 | walterbender | http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/S[…]ndication_request |
| 19:54 | puneet_kaur | ok, Thanks :-) |
| 19:59 | martian_ | walterbender, can you tell me what exactly did u google for? |
| 20:00 | when u sent me that link | |
| 20:00 | walterbender | 3d to 2d transform in Python |
| 20:01 | or something like that | |
| 20:01 | martian_ | walterbender, ok |
| 20:02 | seems like we can directly use the first class | |
| 20:02 | which represents the points in 3d space | |
| 20:02 | with some additions | |
| 20:02 | walterbender | martian_, all you need to do is add a new xyz array to the turtle object and everytime you move the turtle in 3D space, project to 2D and update the x and y coordiantes |
| 20:03 | you'll call tacanvas with the 2D coordinates | |
| 20:03 | you will replace the set heading method with rotation around the Z axis | |
| 20:04 | everything else should just work | |
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| 20:12 | martian_ | walterbender, i see |
| 20:13 | and I was just saying, we will need functions to calculate transformations in 3D | |
| 20:14 | as the given example supports only rotation about xyz axes | |
| 20:14 | and not translation | |
| 20:15 | walterbender | translation is just vector addition |
| 20:16 | martian_ | yes |
| 20:17 | gonzalo__ | martian_, the problems about how represent 3d in 2d are very common, you need research and read a little |
| 20:17 | but is sure you will find resources | |
| 20:18 | walterbender | martian_, BTW, http://cairographics.org/OpenGL/ |
| 20:18 | not that I recommend that approach | |
| 20:18 | since the cairo surface would not be easy to interactive with | |
| 20:19 | martian_ | walterbender, i saw that just a while ago |
| 20:19 | me neither | |
| 20:19 | it is the first option you suggested | |
| 20:19 | walterbender | but another option if we need it |
| 20:20 | martian_ | walterbender, also i tried to find a similar 3d simulation with cairo |
| 20:20 | as we have in pygame | |
| 20:20 | but in vain :/ | |
| 20:20 | guess i will have to try that myself | |
| 20:21 | gonzalo__, yeah, I'll look for it :) | |
| 20:21 | walterbender | martian_, in the example I pointed you to, pygame is only used for the 2D part of the rendering |
| 20:22 | the 3d to 2d projection is handled outside of pygame | |
| 20:22 | so Cairo would work the same | |
| 20:22 | martian_ | walterbender, i know |
| 20:22 | I'll try that with a simple program first | |
| 20:23 | walterbender | so try modifying taturtle.py by adding the projection and xyz (plus rotation in x and y) |
| 20:23 | we already have rotation in z (heading) | |
| 20:25 | martian_ | walterbender, isn't rotation in z handled by 'left' and 'right' ? |
| 20:25 | walterbender | yes and set heading |
| 20:26 | martian_ | oh, so it is just to set a direction initially? |
| 20:26 | and then use left and right later in a program | |
| 20:27 | walterbender | either can be used |
| 20:27 | left and right are relative; heading is absolute | |
| 20:27 | martian_ | walterbender, got it |
| 20:27 | walterbender | needs to go AFK for a bit |
| 20:28 | martian_ | walterbender, will talk to you tomorrow then |
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