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#sugar-meeting, 2014-01-07

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22:03 walterbender manuq: ping
22:03 manuq hi walterbender
22:03 walterbender shall we start the design meeting?
22:03 manuq walterbender, sure, you chair?
22:04 walterbender sorry I am a few minutes late -- was editing the wiki
22:04 why don't you chair
22:04 manuq walterbender, no worries, let's ping the others
22:04 walterbender we seemed to have lost gonzalo mid-day today :P
22:06 manuq walterbender, ok, let's give a few minutes and then start
22:06 walterbender OK
22:08 manuq prepares mate
22:08 walterbender #link http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]nuary/046611.html
22:13 IgnacioSleep is now known as Ignacio`
22:13 Ignacio` Hi all
22:14 manuq hola Ignacio`
22:14 Ignacio` Estaba sin internet, :S
22:14 walterbender hi Ignacio`
22:14 Ignacio` walterbender, :)
22:16 ChristophD <ChristophD!~Christoph@vie-188-118-251-255.dsl.sil.at> has joined #sugar-meeting
22:17 Ignacio` so, start?
22:17 manuq yes Ignacio` walterbender let's start
22:18 #startmeeting
22:18 meeting_ Meeting started Tue Jan  7 22:18:04 2014 UTC. The chair is manuq. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
22:18 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
22:18 manuq walterbender, let's go with your list
22:19 #topic Mic volume Emil Dudev
22:19 #link http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]nuary/046608.html
22:19 walterbender this feature was at the request of OLPC AU
22:19 manuq walterbender, is a nice one
22:19 walterbender yes.
22:19 manuq I gave feedback today
22:19 walterbender I agree... it should all be under the speaker button on the Frame
22:20 manuq walterbender, great, yes, frame space is valuable
22:20 so, same palette as speaker
22:20 walterbender I gave him the microphone icon... but I forgot that I had made one for Measure too. I'll look into it
22:20 Ignacio` I like to add it in speaker palette
22:20 manuq Ignacio`, great
22:21 Ignacio` I think is more easy for users
22:21 manuq walterbender, which one you gave to him?
22:21 Ignacio`, +1
22:21 Ignacio` walterbender, what do you think?
22:22 Quozl` <Quozl`!~quozl@activation.laptop.org> has joined #sugar-meeting
22:22 walterbender I don't recall.. one I made.
22:22 manuq: I'll find it and send it to you to comment on
22:22 manuq I think the Measure mic icon is fine, BTW I can take care of the icon
22:22 next!
22:22 #topic View Source paths Emil Dudev
22:23 #link http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]ember/046528.html
22:23 seems a second try of Emil that consider my observations on another pull request
22:23 I need to test his patch
22:23 sorry but that email never reached my inbox
22:24 has anyone tried it?
22:24 Ignacio` No :S
22:24 walterbender I tried it...
22:25 manuq walterbender, thoughts?
22:26 walterbender i like it...
22:26 manuq walterbender, fine, I'll give it a try after the meeting and send my comments by email
22:26 walterbender it is simple and useful
22:27 manuq walterbender, excellent, I think we all want that enhacement
22:27 next
22:27 #topic Add style.MENU_WIDTH_CHARS   Ignacio Rodríguez
22:27 #link http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]ember/046511.html
22:27 I'm fine with that refactor Ignacio`
22:27 sent my thoughts by email today
22:27 Ignacio` I see your comments
22:28 Yes, I made patch later
22:28 #action Ignacio made patch :P
22:28 manuq great
22:28 #topic Add prelight to frame icons   Ignacio Rodríguez
22:28 #link http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]ember/046504.html
22:28 wow Ignacio` you worked hard
22:28 Ignacio` I see your comments too.
22:29 :)
22:29 (61 tasks xD)
22:29 I haven't sugar-build now
22:29 I can make the patch but no tests :S
22:29 manuq #action Ignacio` to move the pulsing icon to toolkit
22:29 Ignacio`, oh I see, no worries, can be done later, we can wait
22:29 Ignacio` sure
22:30 thx :)
22:30 manuq thanks to you
22:30 Ignacio` so, next? :)
22:30 manuq #topic Enhancement: Add description in Journal Palette   Ignacio Rodríguez
22:30 #link http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]ember/046484.html
22:30 Ignacio` See your comments too :P
22:30 walterbender I really like this feature
22:30 Ignacio` I need some help of walterbender :)
22:30 walterbender Ignacio`: I will help
22:30 manuq walterbender, me too, makes the description visible
22:30 Ignacio` thx :)
22:31 manuq so my thoughs:
22:31 - multiline, three or two lines
22:31 - ellipsize end
22:31 - don't show that box if there is no description
22:31 walterbender +1 to all three
22:31 manuq - don't change the palette width
22:31 Ignacio` manuq, I don't show it
22:31 bernie lurks
22:31 manuq hey bernie
22:32 ok so we have an agreement? Ignacio` maybe the multiline is a hard one
22:33 ChristophD also lurks
22:33 Ignacio` Yes, I need the walterbender help! :)
22:33 walterbender I think we can do multiline (I think 2 is OK)
22:33 manuq walterbender, great
22:33 +1
22:33 #topic Fix vertical portrait mode in CP Sections Ignacio Rodríguez
22:33 #link http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]ember/046383.html
22:33 I haven't tried your patch yet, Ignacio
22:34 I want to do it in the XO, so I'll flash the latest AU build
22:34 walterbender we'll need to do some work on it if/when I land the gender/age patch to the about me section
22:35 manuq walterbender, is that patch around already?
22:35 walterbender manuq: Ignacio`s patch doesn't work with the AU build since it has my gender/age work included
22:35 manuq: that patch is around/reviewed by dnarvaez
22:35 manuq walterbender, oh I got it now
22:35 walterbender I need to convert everything to Gtk.Grid
22:35 as per his request
22:36 but we also need signoff by the design team for the general idea/.design
22:36 manuq walterbender, yes, we should start using Grid to avoid headaches
22:36 walterbender manuq: maybe look at it on the AU build and let me know if you have suggetions
22:36 Ignacio` #action Need to merge changes with walterbender patch
22:36 walterbender manuq: once we decide one way or another about that patch, then I can work with ignacio to merge his patch
22:37 manuq walterbender, Ignacio` fine with me
22:37 walterbender manuq: but you should review the age/gender patch from the design POV
22:38 likes the icons
22:38 manuq walterbender, absolutely, I saw it in the intro screen and liked it very much
22:38 Ignacio` Sorry, I restarted my connection..
22:38 manuq walterbender, you should ask the AU designer to join us!
22:38 walterbender just FYI, we have a few situations where we take advantage of the age field: for Journal Share and a new Training activity I am working on
22:39 manuq: I'll try
22:40 manuq walterbender, do you think the current graphics are a bit too specific to AU culture?
22:40 walterbender manuq: not sure...
22:40 Ignacio` (Sorry, what topic just now?)
22:40 manuq walterbender, the clothing for example
22:40 walterbender manuq: we could make it more generic, I suppose
22:41 manuq maybe they can be more abstract, yes
22:41 walterbender the main thing is the size increases
22:41 manuq walterbender, yes
22:41 walterbender manuq: we can work on the graphics in parallel with the patch
22:41 manuq Ignacio`, still discussing the Gender feature
22:41 Ignacio` ok
22:41 why this not landed to master?
22:42 manuq walterbender, sure, or start with those graphics and improve later
22:42 walterbender Ignacio`: we needed to have a design review before landing
22:42 Ignacio` As user, I think this are ok
22:42 walterbender and I need to convert everything to use grid
22:42 (and gsettings)
22:42 manuq #action manuq to design review Gender feature
22:42 Ignacio` about grid, I can help you :)
22:42 walterbender and I need to write a test
22:43 Ignacio`: help much appreciated
22:43 Ignacio` ;)
22:43 manuq #topic Change order of clipboard   Ignacio Rodríguez
22:43 #link http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]ember/046352.html
22:43 walterbender I don't feel strongly about this
22:43 manuq I gave my -1 to this one, and closed the ticket
22:43 Ignacio` I think the current clipboard are ok
22:44 Yes me too: -1 :P
22:44 walterbender OK
22:44 manuq because the reporter doesn't argue why this is an improvement
22:44 over the current situation
22:44 sorry Ignacio`
22:44 Ignacio` manuq, no problem
22:44 manuq #topic (View Source) Enhancements for Duplicate function   Ignacio Rodríguez
22:45 #link http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]ember/046347.html
22:45 walterbender these are good
22:45 manuq yes!
22:45 Ignacio` I see few comments from manuq
22:45 I think the comments are ok
22:45 manuq yes, they were
22:45 - needs the busy cursor while copying, not in the confirmation alert
22:45 - optional, add a cancel button while copying
22:45 Ignacio` about ^ the cancel button
22:46 I think this aren't needed
22:46 You get a "confirmation" alert first
22:46 walterbender, what do you think?
22:46 manuq Ignacio`, true, BTW if this is going to take some time, a Cancel button is fine, but as I said totally optional from my side
22:47 walterbender I think that once you confirm to duplicate we don't need to cancel.
22:47 you can always delete from the ListView
22:47 Ignacio` Yes :)
22:47 manuq walterbender, yes
22:47 ok, for me the Cancel is just a detail, so fine with me
22:48 let's move on
22:48 #topic Improved icon design (document-open)   Ignacio Rodríguez
22:48 Ignacio` merged to master
22:48 walterbender :)
22:48 manuq yes!
22:48 #topic Network view refresh button   Emil Dudev
22:48 #link http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]ember/046350.html
22:49 couldn't this be solved without requiring the user intervention?
22:49 walterbender I am not sure I agree that automating it is OK
22:49 manuq walterbender, please argue
22:49 Ignacio` I think you don't need refresh button :P
22:49 walterbender well, we don't understand the root causes
22:49 Ignacio` The users can wait
22:49 walterbender so we don't know when the system gets messed up
22:49 manuq walterbender, right
22:49 walterbender it is not always just lose of connection
22:50 it seems to happen for many reasons
22:50 so I think we need a manual mechanism
22:50 RafaelCordano <RafaelCordano!~webchat@rev-18-85-44-69.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting
22:50 walterbender then the question is where to put it
22:50 manuq my main concern is that, with adding a Refresh button we are hidding the real problem forever
22:50 RafaelCordano hello
22:50 Ignacio` RafaelCordano, hi
22:50 manuq hi RafaelCordano
22:51 walterbender manuq: yes, but as I argued in the discussion thread, the problems have gone unaddressed for 4+ years
22:51 RafaelCordano at what time starts the meeting?
22:51 walterbender 51 minutes ago
22:51 manuq: it is a bad situation for our users
22:52 RafaelCordano why?
22:52 walterbender manuq: I also think the place for the refresh is on the view toolbar, not hidden under the network icon for the frame
22:52 manuq walterbender, ok, yes I understand
22:52 walterbender because it is not about the connection, it is about the view
22:52 synchronization problems with Jabber et al.
22:52 not with the access point
22:53 manuq walterbender, all three zoom views?
22:53 walterbender just neighborhood (and group/friends)
22:53 Ignacio` about friends view, it's really used? :P
22:54 walterbender Ignacio`: no... but we should talk in a separate discussion about how to better utilize both views
22:54 manuq walterbender, so let me understand this a bit more..
22:54 walterbender I think we can make both views more useful
22:54 RafaelCordano what are the threads to talk in this meeting?
22:54 manuq walterbender, when these issues happen, what does the user see? no buddies in those views?
22:54 Ignacio` RafaelCordano, all design emails of GCI
22:55 so, what action in this case?
22:55 walterbender manuq: no buddies, stale buddies, old buddies, lots of weirdness
22:56 the wrong shared activities...
22:56 manuq walterbender, yeah, ok
22:56 walterbender whenever the jabber server connection gets out of sync
22:56 which in telepathy, happens a lot
22:56 especially on a crowded server
22:57 also, when the server has too many connections, you only see a subset
22:57 a refresh would give you a new subset
22:57 lots of reasons to refresh :P
22:57 manuq ok walterbender , then Emil's solution is what we can do now, let's go with it
22:58 walterbender, and I see now, the button belongs to the views, not the network palette
22:58 walterbender manuq: in a different patch, Ignacio began experimenting with some interesting new ways to organize the neighborhood view
22:58 tch__ has quit IRC
22:58 walterbender we should touch on those at some point too
22:59 manuq ok!
22:59 #topic Color-Coded Devices   Ignacio Rodríguez
22:59 #link http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]ember/046327.html
22:59 Ignacio` I think this are a good feature :)
22:59 manuq another nice one
22:59 walterbender +1
23:00 Ignacio` So, I need to make a pull request
23:00 manuq we'll wait your pull request Ignacio`
23:00 yes
23:00 Ignacio` sure
23:00 Tch__ <Tch__!~webchat@rev-18-85-44-69.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting
23:00 Ignacio` no discusion on this patch?
23:00 *discussion
23:00 manuq Ignacio`, I haven't looked at the patch yet, just did a design review
23:01 Ignacio` ok
23:01 walterbender, you tested it?
23:01 walterbender yes
23:01 Ignacio` It's works fine for me :)
23:01 walterbender and I think the algorithm is adequate for generating the colors
23:01 Ignacio` So, I make a pull request
23:01 and if this ok I merge it
23:02 manuq walterbender, Ignacio` so the idea is that the same device gets the same color each time it is mounted?
23:02 walterbender manuq: yes
23:02 Ignacio` manuq, yes :)
23:02 manuq great!
23:02 walterbender but each device gets different colors
23:02 just like accesspoints
23:02 manuq of course
23:02 #topic Journal time filter
23:02 #link http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]ember/046288.html
23:03 ideally the user should be handling two brackets [ ] in a timeline :)
23:03 but that would require a custom widget
23:03 maybe leave it for Jounal Web :)
23:03 in the current patch, I think a ComboBox suits better
23:03 Tch__ appears
23:03 manuq hey Tch__
23:03 Ignacio` Tch__, hi
23:04 walterbender manuq: this is a long-requested-by-me feature (since 2007) but I can wait longer :)
23:04 Tch__ Good to see you :)
23:04 walterbender Tch__: hi
23:04 Tch__: you see my emails/messages?
23:04 RafaelCordano hello Tch__
23:05 manuq Tch__, good to see you as well, we are in the middle of the meeting
23:05 Tch__ Not yet, stuck away from my laptop atm
23:05 walterbender manuq: let's put a hold on this feature... I agree: two brackets
23:06 and a solution that uses palettes instead of combo boxes
23:07 Tch__ Just borrowed a second cellphone to join theeetog actually hehe
23:07 walterbender want to ban comboboxes from Sugar :P
23:07 Ignacio` haha
23:07 walterbender (and sliders)
23:07 ugh
23:08 RafaelCordano scuse me, but I think that Sugar Web must be documented completly
23:08 manuq walterbender, yes, I think a timeline widget with a range selection would be best
23:08 ok, so let's move on?
23:09 Ignacio` next topic?
23:09 manuq #topic Change button text in intro screen   Ignacio Rodríguez
23:09 #link http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]ember/046279.html
23:09 walterbender manuq: OK... but we need to design it
23:09 and it needs to be very simple
23:09 ok
23:09 #action design a timeline widget
23:10 I don't feel strongly but this needs to change if/when we land age/gender
23:10 Ignacio` I think the current design is ok
23:10 so -1 from me
23:10 walterbender I do think that since we know what is next or previous, we may as well use those data on the button... but I am willing to defer
23:11 manuq sorry, we are confusing topics
23:11 Ignacio` manuq, I think walterbender have lag :P
23:11 walterbender I had a lag with my #action
23:11 manuq ok!
23:12 walterbender manuq: you seemed to not like this feature...
23:12 manuq walterbender, Ignacio` what about removing the text of those buttons, and have just < and > icons?
23:12 Ignacio` oh
23:12 I like more < and >
23:12 or maybe Gtk.Arrow
23:13 walterbender do we switch them in RTL?
23:13 RafaelCordano what is RTL?
23:13 walterbender Right to Left vs Left to Right
23:13 manuq walterbender, good idea
23:13 Ignacio` I don't understand :S
23:14 manuq Ignacio`, RafaelCordano there are languages that are written from right to left
23:14 and read
23:15 Ignacio` > and < ?
23:16 meeting_ <Ignacio`-es> I follow without understanding :*S
23:16 Ignacio` So, the action is: Change the button texts to "<" and ">"?
23:16 (I like to add: Gtk.Arrow)
23:16 walterbender I don't agree
23:16 Ignacio` walterbender, what do you think?
23:16 RafaelCordano Bye, I must take a shower and then I'll coming
23:17 walterbender because of the RTL issue, <> are not enough information
23:17 Ignacio` RafaelCordano, ttyl.
23:17 RafaelCordano what is ttyl?
23:17 Ignacio` talk to you later
23:17 RafaelCordano ok
23:17 ttyl
23:18 Ignacio` manuq, me podes explicar? :S
23:18 Tch__ has quit IRC
23:18 walterbender Ignacio`: if you read from right to left, then you think that < is next
23:18 if you read from left to right, then you think > is next
23:18 manuq has quit IRC
23:18 Ignacio` Yes I think > is next
23:19 and < is forward
23:19 So, what are the action?
23:19 walterbender I think we wait until after the gender patch lands and reassess.
23:20 Ignacio` Sure :P
23:20 manuq go off? :S
23:20 walterbender with just two choices: nick and colo, it is less critcal, but with four it is a bigger decision
23:20 Ignacio` Yes..
23:20 walterbender I think we will want to add the names but I will wait
23:21 needs to leave in about 15 minutes
23:21 Ignacio` ok
23:21 walterbender but we need manuq :)
23:21 Ignacio` yes :P
23:21 Tch__ <Tch__!~webchat@rev-18-85-44-69.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting
23:23 walterbender Ignacio`: at least we made our way through much of the list :)
23:23 Ignacio`: tomorrow, I will try to work on the About Me patch
23:23 I was busy with other things today :P
23:24 Ignacio` port it to grid?
23:24 walterbender yes
23:24 Ignacio` I help you tomorrow
23:24 walterbender and the test and gsettings
23:24 OK
23:24 Ignacio` Can you do the gsettings? :P
23:24 walterbender yes
23:24 and the unit test
23:24 Ignacio` Good! :)
23:25 walterbender maybe we can land the rest of the patches approved ^^ too
23:25 ChristophD has quit IRC
23:25 Ignacio` ok
23:25 when the meeting finish I work on this
23:25 manuq <manuq!~manuq@> has joined #sugar-meeting
23:25 Ignacio` manuq, back :P
23:25 manuq sorry, my irc client cheated me
23:26 Ignacio`, what was the last line you got from me?
23:26 Ignacio` <manuq> Ignacio`, RafaelCordano there are languages that are written from right to left
23:26 <manuq> and read
23:26 manuq walterbender, still here? sorry
23:26 so, I think the Intro is more like a wizard, so changing "Back" to "Change nickname" would make it confusing
23:27 in a wizard, you pass screen after screen until you finish
23:27 so for me, the current "Back" and "Next" are fine
23:27 ok, walterbender said he is willing to defer, anyone else wants to argue for or against this proposal?
23:27 a. change the buttons texts for more specific screen names
23:27 b. leave as they are now
23:27 c. remove the texts and use the icons directly
23:27 ??
23:27 Ignacio` I like c :)
23:28 manuq Ignacio`, I like c. too, the buttons should be large enough
23:28 Ignacio` maybe
23:28 55x55 ?
23:28 something like the toolbar icons?
23:28 manuq Ignacio`, yeah
23:28 Ignacio` so
23:28 walterbender, what do you think?
23:29 Tch__ C sounds consistent, if i get vote too ;)
23:29 Ignacio` backs in two minutes
23:29 manuq ok! C won
23:30 we are losing our audience, let's schedule another meeting with the pending topics for next week
23:30 thanks everyone!
23:30 #endmeeting
23:30 meeting_ Meeting ended Tue Jan  7 23:30:41 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
23:30 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-07T22:18:04.html
23:30 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]14-01-07T22:18:04
23:30 Ignacio` oh ok
23:31 so
23:31 I back to work tomorrow :P
23:31 manuq gracias Ignacio` !
23:31 Ignacio` denada :)
23:31 walterbender manuq: thanks
23:31 lots of progress
23:31 to be continued :)
23:31 manuq walterbender, yess!
23:38 Ignacio` well, good job guys :)
23:39 walterbender has quit IRC
23:39 Tch__ has quit IRC
23:46 manuq has left #sugar-meeting
23:54 Ignacio` has left #sugar-meeting
23:54 meeting_ * Ignacio`-es has left ("Leaving")
23:57 CanoeBerry has quit IRC
23:58 CanoeBerry <CanoeBerry!~CanoeBerr@c-98-216-254-173.hsd1.ma.comcast.net> has joined #sugar-meeting

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