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#sugar-meeting, 2013-11-04

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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14:00 walterbender hi CanoeBerry gonzalo_odiard cjl
14:00 still waiting for Claudia (Gerald will be late) and Daniel
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14:03 PabloBaques <PabloBaques!~webchat@rev-18-85-44-69.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting
14:04 GeraldA <GeraldA!~quassel@ool-4a59b1ff.dyn.optonline.net> has joined #sugar-meeting
14:05 walterbender hi GeraldA
14:05 GeraldA Good morning, Walter.
14:05 walterbender we have more than a quorum :)
14:05 GeraldA great.
14:05 walterbender we will get started in 1 minute
14:06 PabloBaques ok. Hi everybody
14:07 walterbender hi PabloBaques  (still in the DR?)
14:07 let's get started
14:07 #start-meeting
14:07 meeting Meeting started Mon Nov  4 14:07:29 2013 UTC. The chair is walterbender. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:07 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
14:07 PabloBaques yes.... ;-)
14:07 walterbender Thanks everyone for coming today.
14:07 I think the new format of a regular meeting time will work well
14:08 we've a quite a few agenda items to go through and then we can open the floor for additional items
14:08 #topic election
14:09 3 seats are up for election: mine, Gerald's and Chris's
14:09 Luke has agreed to run the election again and will be getting information out soon
14:09 but what we need it to seek out some candidates
14:10 any suggestions as to how to solicit candidates?
14:10 GeraldA what about Anna from Birmingham, who has done so much for that huge deployment?
14:10 I could reach out to her.
14:10 walterbender that's a nice idea
14:10 outofindia <outofindia!~webchat@rev-18-85-44-69.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting
14:11 walterbender she has seen the good, the bad and the ugly and would offer a lot
14:11 GeraldA #agreed
14:11 walterbender hi harriett
14:11 maybe outofindia ?
14:12 outofindia Hi Walter am I in the right channel for SLOB?
14:12 walterbender she would give us perspective on India, a major market
14:12 outofindia: yes... we are just talking about recruiting candidates for the upcoming election :)
14:13 outofindia ok cool!
14:13 icarito we will consult within the Peru community and try to have a representative from Peru
14:13 walterbender icarito: +1...
14:13 claudia had suggested Jose Miguel from .UY
14:13 if we all follow up, we'll have an interesting and competitive field
14:14 GeraldA when are the elections to be?
14:14 aneeshdogra <aneeshdogra!~aneeshdog@117.208.81.28> has joined #sugar-meeting
14:15 walterbender GeraldA: prob. early December
14:15 any other thoughts/questions about the election?
14:15 gonzalo_odiard hi all
14:15 aneeshdogra hi all!
14:15 kaametza hi all!
14:16 CanoeBerry hello
14:16 walterbender hi gonzalo_odiard , et al...
14:16 sdanielf hello!
14:16 icarito hola todos :-)
14:16 walterbender ah. Daniel is here. good
14:16 Ignacio <Ignacio!~webchat@rev-18-85-44-69.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting
14:17 walterbender shall we move to the next topic?
14:17 #topic ambassadors
14:17 gonzalo_odiard: can you please give a little background on this?
14:17 gonzalo_odiard walterbender, yes
14:18 a topic we was thinking about, was how improve the communication between sugarlabs and the deployments
14:18 to allow us to do a better planning, and fulfill the needs
14:19 aklis <aklis!~aklis@unaffiliated/aklis> has joined #sugar-meeting
14:20 gonzalo_odiard also have who promote the use of new sugar versions and other news we want communicate
14:20 Ignacio Maybe a survey in start of sugar?
14:20 gonzalo_odiard wait a little Ignacio
14:20 walterbender It could be an individual or group within each region
14:21 gonzalo_odiard looking at other ambassador programs, i would like we make clear the objectvies
14:21 walterbender In some places we have something like this already, in an informal sense (harriett in India, Sebastian and Laura in Peru)
14:21 gonzalo_odiard and make it a volunteer role, and with a specific time (one or two years)
14:21 walterbender but yes, a more formal channel I think would be good
14:22 gonzalo_odiard +1
14:23 walterbender how do others feel about this idea?
14:23 kaametza there are also the case of many small scale deplyments like there are in Colombia
14:23 icarito last time we tried to formalize anything outside USA, the SFC had an issue, but I guess if there is no funding involved they will be ok with it, except be careful about what "ambassador" means
14:23 gonzalo_odiard kaametza, in that case would be good have a contact by deployment
14:23 walterbender icarito: I think we can come up with language that won't cause issues for SFC
14:23 kaametza gonzalo_odiard, +1
14:24 walterbender even in Peru, as kaametza and icarito pointed out on the devel list, there is lots of fragmentation
14:24 GeraldA gonzalo_odiard, +1
14:25 walterbender be nice to be able to reach out to Puno and Chachapoyas...
14:25 outofindia I am not sureabout having term limits as these are long term relationship development tasks...we should have a way of removing a dysfunctional ambassador but otherwise maybe have more people join the team as the deployments in the geo area grow.
14:25 gonzalo_odiard then every ambassador would be connected to a location or deployment
14:26 walterbender so, how to proceed? who will organize this?
14:26 kaametza question is how to engage them
14:26 outofindia, +1
14:27 walterbender Step 1 is to identify them.
14:27 Step 2 is to engage them.
14:27 outofindia +1
14:27 gonzalo_odiard outofindia, the issue i am trying to avoid setting a duration, is having people who is "on the papers" but not available anymore. if the ambassador is working, can be reelected
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14:28 outofindia gonzalo got it!
14:28 walterbender maybe we can do this through appointments by SLOB in the first pass
14:28 gonzalo_odiard walterbender, organize this can be a task of the slobs or we need a head of ambassadors?
14:29 walterbender I think SLOBs should initiate the program, but the program should run itself
14:29 and we can appoint a SLOBs representative as a liaison
14:29 icarito frankly I don't see the point
14:29 walterbender icarito: of ambassadors?
14:29 gonzalo_odiard icarito, can you explain?
14:30 icarito hpachas was fedora ambassador for a long time
14:30 gonzalo_odiard and?
14:30 icarito i don't see what it is that you want to accomplish
14:31 and how giving people titiles will help
14:31 walterbender icarito: I see several needs
14:31 outofindia Head of ambasssadors team needs to be one closest to the sugarlabs tech folk to be the bridge to translate and communicate
14:31 gonzalo_odiard is not giving people titles only. we will do specific calls to them. like surveys or meetings
14:31 walterbender icarito: for example, even in a deployment as mature as .UY I found that the teachers didn't even know about the Portfoiio activity
14:32 so there is definitely a communication break down
14:32 icarito yes but how making an ambassador will help, defeats me
14:32 walterbender and I have seen that having a title is often useful for opening doors
14:32 but I agree, it doesn't solve the problem in and of itself
14:33 gonzalo_odiard icarito, how you think sugarlabs can improve the communcation with deployments around 40 countries?
14:33 outofindia icarito what alternative do you suggest as a bridge?
14:33 walterbender as you pointed out, our efforts to create "local labs" ran into problems (many of our own making)
14:33 aneeshdogra <aneeshdogra!~aneeshdog@117.220.107.100> has joined #sugar-meeting
14:33 icarito gonzalo_odiard, the sugar network of course - and about titles, that is one reason local people should sit in slobs
14:33 kaametza having local labs used to serve all those purposes
14:33 icarito with a title and a vote
14:33 sdanielf More than titles... the important of an ambassador program is that Sugar Labs can feedback as directly as possible with deployments
14:33 walterbender this might be a more workable solution
14:34 icarito: there are many more deployments than seats on SLOBs
14:34 icarito sdanielf, I see the need, but not the relation with ambassador programme
14:35 gonzalo_odiard icarito, while sugar-network can be a tool, i think the important part is the people.
14:35 kaametza I may insist that the figure if the local labs serves everybody's needs
14:35 icarito gonzalo_odiard, exactly
14:35 kaametza, +1
14:35 kaametza *of
14:36 icarito what I see being proposed here is isntead of having self-organized communities, have designated people
14:36 kaametza it just needs the upstream support it deserves
14:36 gonzalo_odiard then, out of the ambassadors idea, we agree in the need of better communication with the deployments, right?
14:36 walterbender kaametza: I don't follow
14:37 icarito i don't see how having top-down organization will help
14:37 gonzalo_odiard icarito, no, i don't agree
14:37 kaametza walterbender, the local labs initative would benefit greatly of some upstream support
14:37 icarito especially if there are no resources involved
14:37 gonzalo_odiard icarito, ambassador _are_ volunteers
14:38 walterbender kaametza: I don't think upstream is opposed to supporting... it is a matter of communication, IMHO
14:38 gonzalo_odiard icarito, is not top down, is locate volunteers to help in the communication
14:38 icarito gonzalo_odiard, so is somosazucar and ceibaljam, and more importantly, active contributors
14:38 kaametza walterbender, yes communication is very important i.e. when recluting local translator the local lab should be aware
14:38 aneeshdogra_ <aneeshdogra_!~aneeshdog@117.214.147.55> has joined #sugar-meeting
14:38 icarito gonzalo_odiard, yes but it's being proposed to designate them from slobs
14:38 aneeshdogra has quit IRC
14:39 outofindia its not top down..it is self organised but with designated persons who bridg the communcation gaps we have today...like walter 'portfolio' example.
14:39 gonzalo_odiard icarito, yes, because we need start in some way
14:40 walterbender Let me see if I understand the issues
14:40 kaametza outofindia, indeed the local lab can auto-organize
14:40 walterbender (1) we agree we need better communication between upstream and deployments
14:40 icarito gonzalo_odiard, when I say I don't see the point, I'm also saying we should not spend time on this
14:40 gonzalo_odiard icarito, and we have a responsability about sugalabs initiatives
14:40 kaametza and name an embasator if needed
14:40 icarito slobs should have more important things to discuss
14:40 walterbender (2) we mostly agree that people are an essential part of better communication
14:41 icarito sorry but duh
14:41 walterbender (3) we seem to disagree about how to find/designate the people
14:41 aneeshdogra <aneeshdogra!~aneeshdog@117.220.108.121> has joined #sugar-meeting
14:41 outofindia India had projects where people have put away the XOs because they do not know who to go for for problems and questions  they have.
14:41 kaametza outofindia, that's exactly the need for the existance of a local structure
14:42 not one person can resolve this
14:42 walterbender regarding #3, I don't see why we cannot have it both ways: let SLOBs appoint an initial team and also accept people nominated by local deployments
14:42 kaametza: this is not meant in any way to undermine local efforts
14:42 I don't how you would come to that conclusion
14:42 kaametza walterbender, how can SLOBs have an idea of who should be on an "initial team"
14:43 walterbender kaametza: by asking for input, like we are doing now
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14:44 kaametza walterbender, ibasically when you reach out to the Amazon region located in Perú, we the local lab, were not communicated
14:44 gonzalo_odiard a ambassadors program do not means reject local labs where they exists
14:44 walterbender kaametza: I don't want to argue with you but that is not true
14:44 kaametza so it is something that we want to avoid for the future
14:45 outofindia answer to...how can SLOBs have an idea of who should be on an "initial team is because we are just looking to set up a communication channel from the Sugar source.
14:45 walterbender kaametza: but at the same time, the "local lab" does not have a monopoly on communication
14:45 icarito walterbender, no, we have an open mailing list
14:45 kaametza walterbender,  of course not
14:45 walterbender outofindia: we have relationship with many people... reaching out to them seems a good place to start
14:45 kaametza let's avoid by all means monopoly on communications!
14:46 icarito and a blog, and a wiki
14:46 outofindia kaametza, the people in the field are not on the lists and often cant be...and in our area do not have such free internet access.
14:46 aneeshdogra has quit IRC
14:47 gonzalo_odiard icarito, while is ok you think in your local situation, i think we need look globaly here
14:47 walterbender we need to move on to some other topics.
14:48 we can come back to this again?
14:48 GeraldA +1
14:48 outofindia ok
14:48 kaametza +1
14:48 gonzalo_odiard walterbender, no decision then?
14:48 walterbender but I think we have consensus on the need to build a better channel to deployments
14:48 and we seem to have consensus on having ambassadors
14:49 but a lack of consensus about how to designate them?
14:49 gonzalo_odiard: would you like to make a motion we can vote on?
14:49 outofindia gonzalo after this...while I am in the USA would like to communicate with you offlin and see what we can do as a trial in communcation in india without any formal titles.
14:49 kaametza there will be a need of definition of what an "ambassador" means
14:50 walterbender thinks the compromise suggested earlier is adequate for our immediate needs
14:50 gonzalo_odiard walterbender, i think we need decide how follow, by example:
14:50 -we need a better definition?
14:51 icarito for the record I think this is only slobs saying what other people should do instead of taking real action to change the status quo
14:51 gonzalo_odiard icarito, ok, you are clear. but we are trying to do something to change the situation
14:52 walterbender gonzalo_odiard: let
14:52 gonzalo_odiard i propose the following
14:53 i will circulate a proposal in the slobs mailing list, in the next meeting we can take a decision
14:53 kaametza in any case it sholud be deployments not slobs who need to define who their ämbassador" should be
14:54 gonzalo_odiard kaametza, i think deployments can propose it
14:54 sdanielf Maybe the Deployment Team can be part of this: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Deployment_Team
14:54 walterbender sdanielf: alas, the deployment team has been inactive
14:55 gonzalo_odiard sdanielf, sadly, the deployment team is not working right now
14:55 walterbender sdanielf: this is an attempt to breathe be life
14:55 kaametza sdanielf, the deployment team need to get resurrected
14:55 walterbender gonzalo_odiard: +1 to your proposal, except I think we can proceed by email w;/o waiting a month for a decision
14:56 kaametza I myself volunteer for this but had no possitive response
14:56 walterbender kaametza: not sure that "this" is
14:56 we need to move on
14:56 outofindia Am i wrong in thinking that... it isnt whose ambassadors the person is but rather an ambassador to cummincate about Sugar to all
14:56 sdanielf well, but before the SLOBs discuss about getting embassadors to deployments, we can get interested people to the deployment team
14:57 kaametza walterbender, this = volunteer for activating the Deployment Team ( Isent you a request by email that never got a response)
14:57 walterbender sdanielf: I see this is a way to create a new deployment team... it is bit more than rearranging chairs though...
14:57 kaametza: I'll look in my email...
14:58 kaametza :O)
14:58 still interested!
14:58 walterbender well, maybe you can help shape the current proposal, which is the only one on the table as far as I know
14:59 it is a tangible, actionable proposal which gonzalo_odiard will formalize
14:59 kaametza walterbender, great maybe sdanielf can help me?
14:59 walterbender ok... next topic
14:59 #topic tech/learning meetups
15:00 since Claudia is not here and we are short on time, I would like to defer this topic to the next meeting
15:00 #topic trip advisor grant
15:01 icarito gonzalo_odiard, it would be better to discuss on iaep@ unless it needs to be private
15:01 walterbender I had not made it public yet because the paperwork had not been finalized, but we got a grant from trip advisor for supporting Turtle Art Day activities and i18n efforts
15:02 I am working with Sean on PR
15:02 kaametza icarito, +1
15:02 walterbender but what I'd like to clarify today with SLOBs is administration of the grant
15:03 I'd like to streamline the process of getting translators on board
15:03 and would like to defer in this case to cjl and the i18n team to manage that aspect of the grant
15:04 he and I discussed the short term priorities and they were spelled out in the grant proposal
15:04 gonzalo_odiard +1 to cjl command that
15:04 walterbender so as long as he is adhering to those priorities, I think we (SLOBs) can step back
15:04 CanoeBerry great thanks to cjl's work organizing haitian creole translation over the past 3.5 months, can we clarify rough next steps around this Trip Advisor grant?
15:04 walterbender CanoeBerry: exactly...
15:05 now that the money is here, I'd like to streamline the process of allocating it
15:05 and free up our experts to do their work
15:06 CanoeBerry great
15:06 walterbender so I guess I would like to make a motion:
15:08 #motion allocate the trip advisor funds (up to 18K) to cjl's efforts in hatian creole, guarani, maori, quechua, and the efforts to get glibc updates upstream
15:08 and he can get back to us if the shortterm needs change
15:09 gonzalo_odiard walterbender, +1
15:09 GeraldA walterbender +1
15:09 CanoeBerry +1, some of which might have been spelled out in the grant itself i understand (eg. haitian creole if i understand cjl correctly?)
15:09 gonzalo_odiard walterbender, i think cjl should receive a pay for his work
15:09 walterbender CanoeBerry: yes... all of this was spelled out in the grant
15:09 +1
15:09 CanoeBerry gotit
15:10 +1 to cjl received a portion for his work
15:10 walterbender gonzalo_odiard: the glibc work is something we are contracting to him
15:10 CanoeBerry +1 to cjl receivING a portion for his work
15:10 walterbender motion passes
15:10 gonzalo_odiard walterbender, ok
15:11 PabloBaques I am currently in DR... nextdoor to Hait... what is a way to reach cjl?
15:11 *Haiti
15:11 Is cjl in Haiti?
15:12 walterbender cjl@sl.o
15:12 gonzalo_odiard PabloBaques, cjl is not Haiti
15:12 PabloBaques tx Walter.
15:12 walterbender PabloBaques: CanoeBerry may be a better contact for Haiti
15:12 CanoeBerry clarif: is this $18K intended to be spent within 1 year of receipt of the funds and/or roughly when?
15:13 walterbender CanoeBerry: yes... we have 3 years at 40K per year... half for i18n and half for Turtle Art Day
15:13 CanoeBerry ok
15:13 walterbender CanoeBerry: if the i18n work goes well this year, I may ask for more $ for next year
15:14 we are short on time. I'd like to bring up two more topics quickly
15:14 #topic Google Code In
15:14 As you know, we are accepted for Google Code In again this year.
15:14 Ignacio :)
15:15 walterbender We have a decent list of initial projects...
15:15 it was nice to see icarito and kaametza adding projects over the weekend
15:15 but we need more mentors
15:15 and we need to reach out to deployments to solicit participation
15:15 tincho has reached out to .PY
15:16 and we have good reach into .UY
15:16 but we need more
15:16 this would be a great job for ambassadors :)
15:16 GeraldA I was just thinking this
15:16 walterbender so please, everyone, encourage people to sign up as mentors and get the word out
15:17 icarito kaametza, reached out to the local community already thru the somosazucar list
15:17 maybe you didn't see it
15:18 walterbender I've been trying to spread the word through social media too.
15:18 next topic...
15:18 #topic PR
15:19 As gonzalo_odiard pointed out, we should get some PR out about Sugar 100
15:19 I already have sean working on PR for the trip advisor grant and GCI
15:19 three quick announcements in a row I think would be very nice
15:20 alas, the turtle art day press release didn't seem to get picked up very broadly :(
15:20 if there are other topics we should be making noise about, please contact the marketing team
15:21 any other topics people want to discuss?
15:21 outofindia are the old press releases to be found in any one place?
15:21 walterbender outofindia: yes
15:22 looks for the URL
15:22 enterprise_user <enterprise_user!~ignacio@94-23-167-221.kimsufi.com> has joined #sugar-meeting
15:22 walterbender http://www.sugarlabs.org/index.php?template=press
15:22 gonzalo_odiard walterbender, who is in the marketing team?
15:22 icarito only about transparency and private-public communications, I would like slobs to reaffirm that only topics that need to be private will be dealt with in private, as is our policy
15:23 walterbender gonzalo_odiard: sean and me seem to be the active ones
15:23 enterprise_user is now known as Ignacio_
15:24 walterbender icarito: the only private discussion we have had in at least 1 year was the trip advisor grant
15:24 icarito: and that was because we needed to keep it private during the TA deliberations
15:24 icarito i'm only saying because gonzalo_odiard propsed to discuss ambassador program on slobs list
15:24 walterbender icarito: and publicly
15:25 and it was in my blog and the digest and in the public agenda for this meeting
15:25 so your point is?
15:25 icarito ambassador program need not be private
15:25 and it gives a bad feeling that such a thing wuold be private
15:25 walterbender I think we are all in agreement
15:25 Ignacio_ has left #sugar-meeting
15:26 walterbender so it has been public from the get go...
15:26 gonzalo_odiard icarito, i think have sense discuss by example the terms of the ambassador definition before we take a final decision
15:26 icarito gonzalo_odiard, yes absolutely, but in public
15:26 walterbender icarito: all of the discussion to date has been public... I don't see why we would want to change that
15:27 gonzalo_odiard icarito, if was not public, you would not be here .9
15:27 walterbender anyway, we should wrap up
15:27 thanks all for contrinbuting
15:27 icarito ok looking forward to the discusson on IAEP then
15:27 walterbender please send agenda items for the next meeting (2 December) to the lists
15:28 gonzalo_odiard will follow up re the ambassador program
15:28 gonzalo_odiard yes
15:28 walterbender and please solicit mentors and tasks and participants for GCI
15:28 6
15:28 outofindia Thanks...bye.
15:29 gonzalo_odiard 5
15:29 GeraldA Thanks,
15:29 4
15:29 sdanielf 3
15:29 kaametza have a good day everyone!
15:29 Ignacio 2
15:29 sdanielf bye!
15:29 icarito good day all
15:29 GeraldA #exit
15:29 Ignacio Bye :)
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15:29 walterbender #end-meeting
15:29 meeting Meeting ended Mon Nov  4 15:29:43 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
15:29 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-04T14:07:29.html
15:29 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]13-11-04T14:07:29
15:29 CanoeBerry Thanks All
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17:01 cjl sorry for being afk during meeting.
17:02 PabloBaques: CanoeBerry is our Haiti expert, I am the Translation Team Corodinator
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