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#sugar-meeting, 2013-02-07

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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16:01 sdanielf Hi all
16:01 SeanDaly hi!
16:02 sdanielf Are we ready to start the meeting?
16:06 garycmartin Hi folks.
16:06 sdanielf Hi garycmartin!
16:10 Ok, we are starting...
16:10 walterbender ready...
16:11 sdanielf #startmeeting
16:11 meeting Meeting started Thu Feb  7 16:11:05 2013 UTC. The chair is sdanielf. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:11 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
16:11 sdanielf First, welcome everybody
16:12 garycmartin sdanielf: thanks for organising the meeting!
16:12 sdanielf I have worked in a wiki page, feel free to edit it.
16:12 #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/D[…]on_Team/Notes/1.0
16:13 I think the main efforts for Sugar 1 will be in a complete User Guide, which should be provided in the Help activity
16:14 SeanDaly Yes a Help Activity a great idea
16:14 sdanielf #topic Content to write, edit and update
16:14 SeanDaly help activity update i meant
16:15 walterbender we have tried this in the past... we need a strategy for completion this time
16:15 sdanielf I added some links to the wiki, but the first step would be collect all the resources (old or new)
16:15 SeanDaly i would like to add a position on that wiki page: demo videos
16:16 garycmartin SeanDaly: +1
16:16 sdanielf SeanDaly: +1
16:17 satellit look at discussion tab for an idea
16:17 sdanielf SeanDaly: Videos can be included in the documentation through HTML5 video
16:18 SeanDaly my chief concern with videos are the massive space & bandwidth required, so satellit idea very interesting
16:19 sdanielf The current plan would be: once we know all the resources, we need to link related chapters behind each component listed to document
16:21 SeanDaly: the videos would be included in the help activity, but it's a problem when reading online documentation
16:21 SeanDaly a question, in the distant past there was discussion of MacOS 7-8-9 style info balloons (toggle on-off)... was that buried for good, or is it stil an idea? I ask because unfamiliarity with the interface is a challenge for grownups (kids seem to do all right)
16:22 sdanielf: a possible solution would be slideshow with audio for low-bandwidth
16:22 sdanielf SeanDaly: Activities which need short documentation have a Help Button
16:24 garycmartin SeanDaly: In the Sugar 0.97 cycle we looked at adding improved notifications that allowed for position and animation of notifications, this would allow 'bubble' like pop-ups. It was primarily for discover for touch gestures and better indicate the frame. It didn't make it into the release plans unfortunately due to time.
16:24 SeanDaly sdanielf: I know - help balloons as worked on the old Macs was more for navigating UI outside of applications
16:24 sdanielf SeanDaly: Maybe use only animations when needed? I'm not sure about how many audio needs the documentation.
16:25 garycmartin maybe this is a feature that could be looked at again for Sugar 1
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16:25 SeanDaly sdanielf: as substitute for videos I meant
16:26 garycmartin SeanDaly: audo has issues with translation.
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16:27 walterbender the mechanics of help are interesting... but the challenge is preparing the content
16:27 sdanielf garycmartin: good point. I like your touch writing animations, I'm thinking in somethink simmilar
16:27 garycmartin We could certainly at least add animated gif type help to the docs. These can be pretty light weight if designed carefully.
16:28 tch___ garycmartin: what about sintetic audio
16:28 SeanDaly walterbender: +1 agree
16:28 satellit follow up to idea: Annotated screenshots (tutorials) on wiki on the USB/SD accessed from browse?  (different USB/SD for each language) Can make a tutorial for each activity if needed
16:29 SeanDaly garycmartin: +1, with small color palette anim'd gifs can be small
16:29 the question of i18n does come up
16:29 garycmartin tch___: We have reasonable UI in Sugar 0.98 for speaking any selected text, perhaps we just need to document that feature ;)
16:29 sdanielf We need a capturing team, and then a writting part where verybody can help
16:30 everybody*
16:30 SeanDaly capturing?
16:30 walterbender and we need decide a structure for the writing
16:30 tch___ garycmartin: yup, but i meant for the help facilities in general (inside sugar)
16:30 sdanielf SeanDaly: recording/animating/screenshoting the desktop
16:31 SeanDaly I have prototyped a workflow, running Sugar in a VM on Mac, capturing with Quicktime, then transcoding with ffmpeg
16:32 possible to mux different audio for each lang into lang-specific videos
16:33 sdanielf Is the Maze help which has an animation?
16:33 walterbender can I propose (independent of the tech details) that we need several different levels to our help
16:34 1. how to use Sugar
16:34 satellit screenshots from f17 VirtualBox running sugar are easy text can be translated with google translate (my method)
16:34 walterbender 2 .how to use Sugar activities
16:34 3. how to use Sugar for learning
16:35 garycmartin sdanielf: No not Maze, it's Implode Activity that had the video help
16:35 tch___ walterbender: +1
16:35 garycmartin (it took quite some dev hours getting it to work in GTK3 unfortunately, quite a maintenance effort)
16:36 SeanDaly walterbender: +1 agree big project needs to be organized into parts
16:36 sdanielf garycmartin: thanks for helping me to remember. I like that help and looks like the best way to distribute help.
16:36 walterbender: +1
16:37 garycmartin walterbender: Did the SF efforts from last year ever finally land into the docs? That seemed like quite an effort of material I've not seen.
16:37 sdanielf garycmartin: They didn't land, I added them to the wiki links because most part whith a short update is able to land
16:38 with^
16:38 walterbender garycmartin: no
16:39 garycmartin: I put my contributions into the Activity pages in the wiki
16:39 garycmartin: I made a consistent structure across all the activities I maintain
16:40 garycmartin So, last time, it was the final delivery we failed on, not the actual documenting process.
16:40 walterbender garycmartin: here is the typical format:
16:40 About Portfolio
16:40 Where to get Portfolio
16:40 Using Portfolio
16:40    The Toolbars
16:40    Saving to PDF
16:40 Learning with Portfolio
16:40    Samples of student work
16:40 Extending Portfolio
16:40 Modifying Portfolio
16:40    A word to developers
16:40 Where to report problems
16:41 we have most of the core activities in this format in the wiki
16:42 sdanielf We can export the wiki efforts and send them to pootle. Maybe checking how to do it at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki[…]ki_to_DocBook_XML
16:45 Just to stop discussions and advance, lets vote some purposes:
16:46 1) Using animated graphics or mute videos to complement the documentation.
16:46 +1
16:46 tch___ sdanielf: +1
16:47 SeanDaly mute videos will be like Lego or Ikea instructions :D
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16:47 tch___ yup, good instructions doesnt need to much explicit instructions, like ikea products
16:47 SeanDaly +1 if we're voting tho other stakeholders not here may wish to input
16:48 satellit I just printed portfolio wiki page to a .pdf file 109 kb in fedora
16:50 sdanielf #agreed Use animated content
16:50 #action Research the best way to complement videos. (Audio, dynamic text content, etc)
16:53 Oh, we have been meeting for an hour
16:54 walterbender OK... I will think about how to create the static content in a consistent way
16:56 sdanielf Other part to look is about documenting activities. The best will be that each activity includes it manual and the Help Activity loads it. So students can update it and receive updated documentation... Specially in activities like TA which can include new blocks in a new release
16:58 walterbender sdanielf: we need to get cjl in the loop re the i18n implications
16:58 sdanielf: this is why I was looking into mallard at one point
16:59 I wrote some scripts to generate docs
17:00 sdanielf walterbender: well. Lets update the wiki after this meeting to add the plans we have and then we ping cjl.
17:00 walterbender sdanielf: OK...
17:00 got no traction for mallard at doc camp...
17:01 tch___ brb
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17:02 SeanDaly #link http://projectmallard.org/
17:03 sdanielf Ok, we need a tech part to see the format we will write the documentation.
17:04 I have thinked in Docbook which is used by many projects, but Mallard might be a good option too
17:04 walterbender sdanielf: the reason I liked the mallard approach was because I could take direct advantage of the i18n work already done for my activity
17:05 sdanielf walterbender: How easy to write is it?
17:06 walterbender sdanielf: pretty easy
17:06 sdanielf #action Will reserch mallard format
17:06 research*
17:07 I think it's all for today, but is there any other idea to share?
17:08 good...
17:08 5
17:08 SeanDaly just a sec
17:09 satellit look at this page on wiki: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Tutorials
17:09 SeanDaly would be helpful to work on video/slideshow/gif spec: resolution in particular
17:10 ideally, standard size, or 2 sizes (but not 5 sizes)
17:10 walterbender 4
17:10 sdanielf satellit: thanks
17:11 3
17:11 garycmartin 2
17:13 sdanielf 1
17:13 thanks for attending
17:13 #endmeeting
17:13 meeting Meeting ended Thu Feb  7 17:13:47 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
17:13 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-07T16:11:05.html
17:13 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]13-02-07T16:11:05
17:14 garycmartin sdanielf: thanks for charing the meeting.
17:14 SeanDaly thanks sdanielf
17:14 satellit thanks
17:14 garycmartin s/charing/chairing
17:15 sdanielf a pleasure, now time to collect all the information and update the wiki page with all the ideas
17:18 satellit sdanielf: I have had a lot of activity on this page 4710 hits since it was written http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/T[…]e_Sugar_Interface
17:20 GrannieB Is this where the server sprint meeting is?
17:21 CanoeBerry_: ping
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