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#sugar-meeting, 2012-08-14

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14:00 erikos opens the gate
14:00 #startmeeting
14:00 meeting Meeting started Tue Aug 14 14:00:09 2012 UTC. The chair is erikos. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:00 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
14:02 erikos who is around for the dev meting?
14:02 silbe waves
14:03 bernie lurks
14:04 silbe erikos: did we change the meeting time? ISTR that we're starting at 15 UTC (17 CEST)...
14:05 erikos silbe: ahh right, I am to early
14:05 #endmeeting
14:05 meeting Meeting ended Tue Aug 14 14:05:39 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
14:05 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-14T14:00:09.html
14:05 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]12-08-14T14:00:09
14:05 erikos waits then another hour
14:05 see you later
14:06 silbe ok, cu :)
14:08 erikos: BTW, I'd like to add an item to the agenda: review / code acceptance policy
14:09 (see my mail on sugar-devel)
14:22 gonzalo_ hello boys
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15:04 erikos #startmeeting
15:04 meeting Meeting started Tue Aug 14 15:04:58 2012 UTC. The chair is erikos. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:04 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
15:05 erikos who is around for the dev meeting?
15:06 bernie lurks again
15:06 gonzalo_ is here
15:06 erikos heh, hi bernie and gonzalo_
15:06 seen silbe as well earlier
15:06 garycmartin waves
15:06 erikos hey garycmartin
15:07 manuq <manuq!~manuq@host201.186-125-151.telecom.net.ar> has joined #sugar-meeting
15:07 silbe waves again
15:07 pflores__ around
15:07 bernie pflores__: hey man!
15:07 erikos great - let's start then
15:07 pflores__ hi bernie! Thanks for your recent mails!!
15:08 erikos - introducing new contributors
15:08 - follow up the shell port: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/GTK3/Shell (manuq)
15:08 - follow up the touch support in the shell: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]Touch/Development (erikos)
15:08 - follow up the activities port, touch addition (including gestures), releasing of new activities (gonzalo)
15:08 - maintenance etc (silbe)
15:09 any new contributors here?
15:09 anyone is new to the show and want to introduce himself?
15:09 ok, next item
15:10 #topic follow up the shell port: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/GTK3/Shell
15:10 manuq: please
15:11 manuq sorry
15:12 so, I have the control panel working
15:12 and the activities list view
15:12 and now I'm trying to fix the journal
15:12 erikos nice
15:12 bernie manuq++
15:13 erikos manuq: I hope I can get my build at your stage (/me is currently rebuilding)
15:13 manuq: so I can help you with the crash
15:13 manuq the activities list needed our custom cellrenderer that displays the activity icons and the star, that will be used in the journal too
15:14 erikos manuq: yeah, great you fixed this
15:14 manuq erikos: yes, I'm building sugar-build again to try to help you
15:15 erikos great
15:15 gonzalo_ erikos, manuq, what is the plan to land all this? looks like a big part of the work is over manuq shoulders now :(
15:15 erikos so, the page has a list of items if people want to help
15:15 manuq erikos: and you fixed the gconf_client_get_list, right?
15:15 erikos every help is highly appreciated
15:15 manuq: yes the gconf_client_get_list is fixed
15:16 gonzalo_: yeah, really every help is welcome
15:16 gonzalo_: I just kicked off the touch work, but will stand with Manu again now
15:16 gonzalo_: has to be done in the next 2 weeks basically
15:17 gonzalo_ erikos, but you are working in manuq cloned repo, right?
15:17 erikos oh yeah, the no-hippo stuff did land, please test, file bugs, fix bugs
15:18 gonzalo_: yes, is not in a state to push yet atm
15:18 manuq gonzalo_: we can rework nice patches for sugar/sugar-toolkit-gtk3 master based on the work in the branch
15:19 erikos what we really need help with atm is just more hands
15:19 so really anyone interested in making gtk+3 and touch happening give us a hand
15:20 gonzalo_: I know you are taking care of the activity side, thanks a lot for that!
15:20 manuq yes
15:20 erikos and submitting toolkit-gtk3 patches
15:21 so all I can say, is please help, either with no-hippo stabilizing, or the shell port
15:21 manuq and myself are in #sugar for further discussions
15:21 questions?
15:21 gonzalo_ anybody else interested in help?
15:22 ....(probably this is the problem)
15:22 erikos great, i think we made some noise ;p
15:22 garycmartin is focusing on the touch items at the momen
15:22 erikos garycmartin: yeah, which is the right thing ;p
15:22 garycmartin s/momen/moment
15:23 erikos good let's move on, I think we made a point
15:23 garycmartin erikos: :)
15:23 erikos #topic follow up the touch support in the shell: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]Touch/Development
15:23 so I cooked up patches so we can get a feeling for possible changes
15:24 garycmartin enjoys the cooking
15:24 erikos it will affect as well the 'mouse' behaviour in certain areas
15:24 (e.g. left click on an icon will bring up the palette)
15:24 (e.g. new frame bringup behavior in the hot corner)
15:25 garycmartin: I guess we can discuss the details design wise in the design meeting
15:25 garycmartin: and send the items as well to the list
15:25 garycmartin erikos: Yes Buddy/Ad-hoc/device instant open on left click fixes are a big improvment
15:26 gonzalo_ garycmartin, +1
15:26 erikos garycmartin: I wonder if we should get those into the no-hippo release already
15:26 garycmartin erikos: I did notice that the right Frame edge buddy icon palettes are not effected by your buddy patch (I thought they were on the same code path but perhaps not).
15:26 erikos garycmartin: as I think they make sense in general
15:26 gonzalo_ garycmartin, and solves part of the problem with visual feedback about secondary options :)
15:26 erikos garycmartin: yeah, that one I need to still code up
15:27 garycmartin: I left it as a test if you look closely enough ;))
15:27 garycmartin erikos: re makes sense in general +1
15:27 ;)
15:28 (FWIW I'm using patch to apply your patches over a fresh 12.1 install on an XO, I couldn't get far with your test instructions)
15:29 erikos garycmartin: ok, sorry if it caused trouble for you
15:29 garycmartin: hope you can run them neverless
15:29 garycmartin erikos: no problem, just worried other might struggle and give up with them.
15:29 erikos garycmartin: I can probably get them into a branch as well, might be easier
15:30 silbe erikos: yeah, I'd prefer the GTK3 port to be functionally equivalent to the GTK2 version, so we can develop UI tests on the GTK2 version and verify the GTK3 port with those. That would mean either doing functional changes on the GTK2 branch first or holding off on functional changes until the GTK3 port is completely finished, with no bugs left. The latter is probably not an option given the roadmap.
15:30 garycmartin erikos: are you using sugar-build on an XO?
15:30 erikos I first thought people would try them individually, that is why I separated them
15:30 garycmartin: I did already, for those I used the instructions I put on the wiki
15:31 manuq yes, very nice instructions
15:31 erikos silbe: some of the touch related changes need GTK3, so they can not go in now
15:32 garycmartin ah OK, that was the bit that confused me, no hint as to what the environment to start with for those instructions.
15:32 erikos silbe: but the others we can land and keep on with the port in a branch and then rebase
15:33 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]_patches_to_Sugar ?
15:33 garycmartin yea
15:33 silbe erikos: would those changes that need GTK3 be modifications of existing behaviour or just additions?
15:33 erikos garycmartin: oh, if you tested today, after I pushed the no-hippo bits, might break :/
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15:33 garycmartin erikos: Yes git am 0001-Make-the-palette-come-up-on​-left-click-for-the-buddy.patch broke
15:34 erikos garycmartin: sorry, sorry, will rebase
15:34 garycmartin also ./autogen-sh --prefix=/usr complained about many things and failed
15:34 erikos or better put in a branch
15:34 silbe: if you say addition, that would be touch support, right?
15:34 garycmartin But I didn't know you were using it as part of a sugar-build
15:34 erikos silbe: so there are things like touch&hold for example
15:35 garycmartin: no, I did not use sugar-build
15:36 garycmartin: just cloned the repo, in any case, I will setup a repo
15:36 silbe erikos: for the UI tests I only care about what works in GTK2, but stops working with GTK3. touch&hold is an addition, not a modification of previous behaviour.
15:36 erikos silbe: good
15:37 silbe: so yeah, let's land modifications then if possible early
15:37 (such as the left click ones)
15:37 more comments on this item?
15:38 manuq not from my side
15:38 silbe erikos: +1. Maybe we should even use separate branches for the GTK2 and GTK3 versions? That way the GTK3 port wouldn't need to block on the GTK2 changes (including UI test support).
15:38 garycmartin no, will touch on some of this in the design meeting later (if we can get that far)
15:39 erikos garycmartin: we need to get this far :)
15:39 garycmartin (that was a "no, no more comments on this item")
15:39 erikos: :)
15:39 erikos garycmartin: or handle it over email (at least we should say that this is what we want to do)
15:40 garycmartin: :)
15:40 garycmartin erikos: yes, and we could have another touch meeting later this week.
15:40 erikos silbe: yeah< I first wanted not to have to rebase the gtk3 branch often
15:40 silbe: but maybe it is ok, I will think about it a bit more
15:40 garycmartin: great
15:40 garycmartin (but asynchronous emails may be a better workflow)
15:41 erikos silbe: UI test support, you want to land it in 0.98?
15:41 silbe erikos: you wouldn't have to rebase in this case, instead you (or whoever commits the GTK2 change, for UI tests probably me) would merge the GTK2 branch into the GTK3 branch. I.e. you only need to deal with a single patch, not the entire series.
15:43 erikos silbe: but if they diverge heavily you still have some work todo
15:46 silbe erikos: that would have to be done anyway if we want something in the GTK2 version already. The only difference is when you resolve the conflict and how much effort it is. For the UI tests it's something I expect and accept.
15:47 erikos ok, so the UI test is it 0.98 work?
15:47 or do you don't know yet?
15:48 silbe if I get it to work reliably, I'm targetting 0.98, yes.
15:48 erikos ok
15:50 great, let's move on if nobody has anything more to bring up
15:50 silbe right now, there's some kind of race condition (possibly a memory management problem) that's blocking further work and will require quite a lot of work diagnosing. As we've focussed on the hippo removal series review, there's no progress on the UI test front.
15:51 erikos silbe: ahh yeah, races are bad
15:51 gonzalo_ erikos, lets continue ...
15:51 erikos gonzalo_: your turn
15:51 #topic follow up the activities port, touch addition (including gestures), releasing of new activities (gonzalo)
15:52 gonzalo_ erikos, ok, anybody working in port activities here?
15:53 garycmartin gonzalo_: I'm starting to dabble with mine.
15:53 gonzalo_ from my part, i have published ported activities (from me and humitos) in aslo, selecting sugar version 0.98
15:53 to not annoy normal users if possible
15:53 manuq gonzalo_: I appreciated your patches for the artwork
15:53 erikos gonzalo_: yeah, that is good practice
15:53 gonzalo_ manuq, great
15:54 a few problems are pending, i am trying to solve one with check box in palettes now
15:54 should be good if we can have all the ported activities published to encourage testing asap
15:55 garycmartin, dirakx, walterbender, i am looking to oyur corner :)
15:55 erikos gonzalo_: yeah, daniel will include them into testing builds
15:56 gonzalo_ sadly, no much people working in activities port today here  :(
15:56 garycmartin gonzalo_: might start to see a release or two form me later next week.
15:56 gonzalo_ garycmartin, yupi!
15:57 garycmartin, we started to look at your touch recomendation on activities
15:58 i am not sure if we can solve all, then i prepared a plan with priorities http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User[…]h_plan_activities
15:59 erikos gonzalo_: ahh, I have some thoughts as well, will add or send you
15:59 garycmartin gonzalo_: Fab, I tried to keep it quite high level, there's lot's of possibilities if we have much polish time, but not too likely in this cycle!
15:59 gonzalo_ garycmartin, erikos, please send me your copmments
16:01 erikos, when you think we will have testing images with new toolkit/artwork rpms and malit enabled?
16:01 erikos gonzalo_: on maliit peter i working
16:01 gonzalo_: I will do a release next week monday
16:01 garycmartin gonzalo_: a fair amount of UI polish will rely on new HW gfx support. I'm still not clear what we will really have available to us.
16:01 erikos gonzalo_: is that early enough?
16:03 gonzalo_ erikos, i think it's ok
16:03 silbe will the "new HW gfx support" be exclusively for XO-4 (is that the official name now?) or can we expect similar support to arrive on older hardware, too? I.e. do we need a backup plan for older hardware?
16:04 erikos if you tell me, my work is so much easier if you package up artwork and toolkit-gtk3 now, I will do it
16:04 gonzalo_: ^
16:04 gonzalo_ erikos, ok, we can coordinate
16:04 erikos gonzalo_: great
16:05 gonzalo_: shall we move on?
16:05 silbe: we will see, not to worry for now
16:05 gonzalo_ erikos, a last comment, about gestures
16:05 erikos oh sure, of course
16:05 garycmartin silbe: I'd not want to suggest something that we don't have a reasonable fallback for when the HW/drivers are not capable enough.
16:05 silbe ok
16:06 gonzalo_ erikos, we talked this on irc, repeat here
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16:06 gonzalo_ we need implement a few gestures, but are waiting until next week to have garnacho back
16:07 erikos yes
16:07 gonzalo_ because he implemented this in gtk, and probably is better use his implementation and later try have it supported in gtk itself
16:07 (gestures was not included in last gtk)
16:08 erikos right and the gestures we want to support are: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]elopment#Gestures
16:08 touch-and-hold, swipes (left/right/up/down), and pinch-to-zoom
16:09 silbe +1 to have this in GTK, so non-Sugar applications will benefit from it as well.
16:10 gonzalo_ erikos, nothing more from my oart
16:10 erikos silbe: yes, is the plan, but likely won't happen in 3.6
16:10 gonzalo_ part
16:11 erikos thanks gonzalo_ for all your work! and stepping up here to talk about it
16:13 great
16:13 silbe: your turn
16:13 #topic maintainership
16:13 silbe #link https://lists.sugarlabs.org/ar[…]thread.html#38893
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16:15 silbe I've taken some time (several weeks in fact) to think about what we want(ed) to achieve with the current review process and whether there are better ways to achieve them.
16:16 erikos ok, maybe before we discuss this, I guess we can welcome Manuel as a maintainer for glucose as discussed in the email thread?
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16:16 manuq :)
16:16 gonzalo_ welcome manuq!
16:17 silbe erikos: well, he's already acting as maintainer, so there's no reason not to welcome him. ;)
16:17 erikos will update the pages if their is no disagreement after the meeting
16:17 silbe: great
16:17 manuq thanks all
16:17 silbe manuq: Welcome as a Glucose maintainer! :-|
16:17 erikos silbe: so yes, there have been a few issues with the review process and maintainership
16:18 silbe: I don't fully agree with your arguments why we are in that situation but I should probably reply to that in that mail
16:18 silbe: where we agree is that we can do better
16:19 I think having another maintainer will help us
16:19 so good that Manuel will do that, and that he showed his skills already for a while, so we know what we get ;p
16:20 garycmartin :)
16:21 erikos I had some thoughts about the topic as well, and I think we just take too long for the review
16:21 manuq I'm glad
16:21 erikos manuq: :)
16:22 silbe: so, as you say, there is the blocking issue on the 2 of us for ack
16:23 now with manuel we have already three that can do reviews (and feel that being their duty) and give ack
16:23 silbe erikos: I can't speak for you, but I'm already working as fast as I can. I could give an ack faster, but it wouldn't be a good review anymore. That's why I distinguished between those two in my mail.
16:24 erikos silbe: you mean between the high level review and the in-depth review?
16:25 so I think the high-level review is the important one in terms if the ack
16:25 that is how I see it
16:25 here is an example:
16:25 - X sends a patch
16:25 - Y (not a maintainer does a review)
16:25 silbe erikos: I'm calling them "short reviews" rather than "high-level reviews" because for me a "high-level review" includes reviewing the interactions between components (i.e. a review on the API level). That's probably just a difference in choice of words, but I'd like to avoid confusion due to conflicting uses of terms here.
16:26 erikos - Z (a maintainer) looks at the high level, and ack if he is good with it and nothing spectacular springs at his eye
16:26 silbe: yeah, I think we mean the same
16:27 gonzalo_ silbe, i think is logic request a in depth review if the patch is from a new comer, but if is from another maintainer, is blocking a lot the development right now
16:27 erikos gonzalo_: yeah, that is probably a good way of putting it
16:28 gonzalo_ more if we had only two maintainers for sugar :(
16:28 erikos yes
16:28 gonzalo_ probably when moe people was involved worked better ...
16:28 silbe gonzalo_: FWIW, I prefer my own patches to be reviewed (in depth), too. I'm just a human and make mistakes. I also like to learn better ways to solve problems.
16:29 gonzalo_ silbe, yes, we old make mistakes, and can be solved, we work with software not marble :)
16:29 erikos silbe: sure, me is the same, but there is a limit to that
16:30 gonzalo_ nobody question reviews are good, the problem is how do a good use of the time we have
16:30 erikos silbe: I think this is again where Gonzalo's rule applies ;p
16:31 garycmartin: (oups we should wrap up at some point I guess)
16:31 gonzalo_ he he s/old/all (i am geting older :) )
16:32 erikos gonzalo_: I just wanted to start talking about maturity...:)
16:32 garycmartin erikos: ;) 3min into the Design Meeting...
16:32 silbe gonzalo_: sure. The reason I like reviews is that it's usually much easier to catch hard to diagnose bugs when they are introduced, rather than having to track them down in the live system. But I'm afraid you are right that we simply can't afford to do in-depth reviews for most patches for the time being. I'm just hoping things will get better again in the future.
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16:33 silbe ok, so what do you think about the two changes I proposed?
16:33 are they uncontroversial enough to decide now, or should we discuss on-list first?
16:34 erikos silbe: can you just illustrate them again with a simple example?
16:34 silbe: (maybe just the first item for today regarding reviews)
16:34 example 1: I submit a patch (maintainer)
16:35 example 2: Gonzalo submits a patch (non-maintainer)
16:36 silbe: (if too much of a rush we can do as well in the list)
16:36 silbe erikos: https://patchwork.sugarlabs.org/patch/826/ is an example of a standards-compliance fix that I'd like to get accepted in the future (VII. in the mail).
16:37 garycmartin Are folks waiting here of the Design Meeting (other than some of those here already who may stay on?)
16:37 ajay is :)
16:38 silbe erikos: re. making reviews by senior developers optional and non-blocking, I'd trust both OLPC and AC to do good enough in-house reviews and would only require the patches to be posted on sugar-devel and ack'ed there by one of the upstream maintainers. I don't expect to have to do an in-depth review before ack'ing a patch from OLPC or AC.
16:39 erikos silbe: yeah, I think there are two important bits here, groups do in house in depths reviews
16:39 silbe: and b that the patch is sent to the ml
16:40 silbe: and if controversial leave it there so others can react
16:40 silbe: or ask in the dev meeting
16:41 kaametza_ has quit IRC
16:42 silbe erikos: at least where we expect patches to be controversial, yes.
16:43 erikos silbe: and if a patch is sent and you spot it as, hey this is bad quality, you can always tell the submitter to work over it
16:44 so, yes, sounds good to me
16:44 we can keep on on the ml (as well your other point)
16:44 silbe erikos: great!
16:44 erikos garycmartin: we should maybe leave room for you
16:44 gonzalo_ silbe, about https://patchwork.sugarlabs.org/patch/826/ you are probably the only user, right? :)
16:45 garycmartin erikos: Perhaps carry it on via asynchronous email?
16:45 erikos garycmartin: yes, will do
16:45 thanks everyone for attending
16:45 sorry garycmartin
16:45 #endmeeting
16:45 meeting Meeting ended Tue Aug 14 16:45:51 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
16:45 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-14T15:04:58.html
16:45 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]12-08-14T15:04:58
16:46 silbe erikos: ok. If possible, I'd like a conclusion to be reached until (resp. during) the next Dev Team meeting, because I'm going to adjust my review priorities accordingly.
16:46 gonzalo_ garycmartin, closed the door ! :)
16:46 silbe gonzalo_: right now, I only know of one other user, icarito. But I wouldn't be surprised if we need that patch even for metacity in the future.
16:46 erikos silbe: yes
16:47 garycmartin Design Meeting time! :)
16:47 #startmeeting
16:47 meeting Meeting started Tue Aug 14 16:47:13 2012 UTC. The chair is garycmartin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:47 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
16:47 silbe gonzalo_: Sugar is misbehaving and we're just lucky that metacity doesn't care.
16:47 erikos waives to garycmartin
16:47 garycmartin So who's here for some Design time! ;)
16:47 gonzalo_ garycmartin, we ddidn't have time to run! :)
16:47 ajay :)
16:48 garycmartin gonzalo_: :)
16:48 manuq stays here
16:48 Cerlyn <Cerlyn!~cerlyn@mail.globisgroup.com> has joined #sugar-meeting
16:48 garycmartin Ok :)
16:48 #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Design_Team/Meetings
16:49 There's quite a bit in the agenda, let's see how far we get through it.
16:49 #topic Home list view favourite icons, hover highlight/click results in confusion (Frederick)
16:49 erikos go garycmartin go!
16:49 garycmartin #link http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/3147
16:49 erikos: I think you and I are partly to blame for this one ;)
16:50 Sugar Camp Paris 2 I believe!
16:50 benzea has left #sugar-meeting
16:51 garycmartin I was hoping to have a mockup animation of where we could go with this UI feedback case
16:51 but I didn't quite get there.
16:52 I will make sure and have it for the next meeting, but it involves using our grey, rounded rect mouse over/down outline around a widget.
16:53 (this might also help in the case of touch screen feedback, but that is another item)
16:53 ajay garycmartin: and also in multi-select :P
16:54 garycmartin Any one have any feedback/thoughts on the current star feedback UI?
16:54 ajay: ;)
16:55 ajay garycmartin: I think the ticket is very self-descriptive of the issue ..
16:55 erikos garycmartin: sorry, phone, I am back now
16:55 gonzalo_ garycmartin, can we use only stroke but not fill on over?
16:55 garycmartin erikos: :)
16:56 erikos garycmartin: and now with touch....
16:56 garycmartin: the hovering is only one use case
16:56 garycmartin gonzalo_: grey stroke but no fill is what an unselected star looks like :P
16:57 gonzalo_ garycmartin, no, i am saying user color stroke
16:57 manuq glad I see a ticket about this, when porting the view to gtk3 that confused me, I was about to report :)
16:57 garycmartin gonzalo_: Ah no, don't think that will be visible enough and will look odd (very dependant on users choice of colours)
16:59 So, I'd suggest the colour change on mouse over goes away, and we use a rounded rect outline (as per on the home view) when the mouse is over or down on the widget. This works for the touch case as well.
16:59 manuq +1
17:00 ajay +1
17:00 erikos garycmartin: how does it work for touch?
17:01 garycmartin (the star colour would go on/off on mouse down to show the click/touch was accepted)
17:02 erikos when the finger is over it?
17:02 gonzalo_ we should do a noise :)
17:02 garycmartin erikos: For the touch case the extra size of the rounded rect would make it less likely you have the whole thing hidden under your finger, also in the case of some UI lag the rounded rect would briefly be visible when you move away
17:03 manuq currently is grayed out when mouse pointer is over the star
17:03 garycmartin gonzalo_: +1 ;) but teachers will hate us :))
17:03 gonzalo_ garycmartin, just a little ;)
17:04 garycmartin gonzalo_: I hear that a 'fart' noise is always very popular with kids ;)
17:04 erikos ok, is a hard one, I think :?
17:04 :/
17:04 gonzalo_ garycmartin, don't be distracted ! :)
17:04 garycmartin erikos: is there not space in the widget?
17:04 (for the rounded rect around a star)
17:05 erikos but will that be gig enough?
17:05 garycmartin erikos: there will almost certainly be a UI delay as well, so you'll see it as you lift your finger for sure.
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17:06 erikos garycmartin: ok, we can try it out
17:06 should maybe look at a reference
17:06 dogi <dogi!~dogi@pool-108-20-102-150.bstnma.east.verizon.net> has joined #sugar-meeting
17:06 igod <igod!~omen@pool-108-20-102-150.bstnma.east.verizon.net> has joined #sugar-meeting
17:06 garycmartin I'll make sure I post an animation mockup before next meeting.
17:06 erikos garycmartin: it will be the same issue for the checkbox in the Journal, right?
17:07 (in regard to touch)
17:07 cool
17:07 kaametza_ <kaametza_!~icarito@> has joined #sugar-meeting
17:07 garycmartin #action mockup animation for star/un-star UI widget interaction feedback
17:07 erikos: Yes
17:07 OK moving on...
17:08 #topic Example support for activities
17:08 #link http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]-July/038588.html
17:09 No walterbender or tch today. I don't have much new to add other than I don't think this will make it into the next cycle unless someone is willing to start coding it soon!
17:10 erikos ok, let's keep it async then for that one
17:10 garycmartin …and the design is still very unclear and potentially disruptive (see pervious design meeting logs if you're interested)
17:10 erikos ok
17:10 garycmartin erikos: Agreed, async it is!
17:11 #topic Lease expiry information display in My Settings
17:11 #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]ection_Mockup.png
17:11 #link http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]-July/038571.html
17:11 #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]formation_Display
17:12 Hopefully that first link should pretty much say it all. Seems like the mail thread is in agreement. We just need a working patch ;)
17:12 erikos garycmartin: ok, and daniel was on that thread as well
17:12 garycmartin: I trust him there to know what the field needs
17:12 ajay garycmartin: I will port it to the mainline
17:13 erikos ajay: ok, you should probably add yourself to http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]formation_Display then
17:13 ajay erikos: aye aye, caption !!
17:13 *captain :-\
17:13 erikos: ^^
17:14 garycmartin ajay: fab, from what anish was saying it doesn't yet 'hide' itself from users who don't need leases yet. That's quite important so as not to confuse/worry users who don't have anything to do with leases and activation.
17:14 erikos ajay: great, thanks
17:14 ajay garycmartin: Currently, if the lease.sig file is present, the lease info is shown; else not.
17:15 garycmartin, erikos: so how do we deduce as to who needs it, and who does not? gconf?
17:15 garycmartin ajay: OK, so the international DX3 image contains a dummy lease? I see "Lease: Not available" in my settings here.
17:17 ajay garycmartin: Hmm.. I think I could arrange for me.. just need to see it for testing .. :)
17:17 * arrange for one
17:18 garycmartin ajay: sorry, not much of an idea regarding testing if a lease is needed.
17:18 erikos garycmartin: ajay on that end I am all ear to daniel to know what to do
17:18 the design looks simple, so good
17:18 garycmartin Maybe there is some trick to get OF to tell you, but am just guessing.
17:19 ajay garycmartin: OF?
17:19 erikos ajay: best to keep discussing the technical details on the list in that thread
17:19 garycmartin Open Firmware
17:19 ajay erikos: +1.
17:19 garycmartin: ok
17:19 garycmartin OK, moving on! :)
17:19 #topic Journal multi-select
17:19 #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]ction_screenshots
17:19 #link http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]-July/038558.html
17:20 ajay garycmartin, erikos: So, i port the patch for lease info, and we continue discussion on m-l
17:20 garycmartin ajay: +1
17:20 ajay garycmartin: just saw your latest mail, regarding the alert-unresponsive. Am fixing it.
17:20 garycmartin: any other feedback?
17:21 garycmartin ajay: fab, more feedback...
17:21 erikos ajay: how hard would be a patch for mainline?
17:21 ajay is all ears :)
17:21 erikos the current patch is for dx, if I am right
17:22 ajay erikos: well.. I am mainly concerned of the differences that would be caused by the "touch" enhancement.
17:22 erikos: yes, it is for dx.
17:22 erikos: so, what i am thinking ...
17:22 garycmartin ajay: So I'm noticing that the batch operations are taking longer to get started – click select all and there's a fair pause before the UI changes or starts updating. I think this might be related to the new 'locking' of the Journal redraw, but haven't tested enough yet.
17:22 ajay erikos: is that i will port the patch anyways as the first step; test it on OLPC's F17 image to see it works fine.
17:23 erikos: after that I will send the patch to the m-l, to you and garycmartin, to see if there are any differences with  regard to touch. If yes, I will have to have a "touch" XO.
17:23 erikos ajay: yeah, that way you can get feedback on the implementation already, did silbe look at it internally?
17:23 ajay: nice trick ;p
17:24 ajay garycmartin: Hmm.. No.. i think this is something that is not due to UI-freeze. There is some time needed, to pick up the number of selected/deselected entries, before the operations begin on them
17:24 erikos ajay: I think 99% will just work in regards to touch
17:24 garycmartin ajay: Can deselect, be faster somehow? I see it as the "Get me out of here as quick as possible" button, as it returns you to the 'normal' Journal.
17:25 ajay erikos: :P.. yeah .. this way the work does not stop.
17:25 erikos ajay: you need to see how it works under GTK3
17:25 ajay erikos: great to hear that :)
17:25 erikos: yep.
17:26 garycmartin: hmm.. it might not be straightforward. for deselect to proceed, we first need to pick up the number of selected entries (on which the deselect will operate).
17:26 erikos if manuq and myself are quick you can base it on the new shell ;p
17:26 manuq aha!
17:26 ajay garycmartin: anyways.. i will say if it can be made any faster (seems unlikely, since we need to do one scan at least over all thee entries) :-\
17:27 erikos manuq: :)
17:27 garycmartin ajay: :-/
17:27 ajay erikos, manuq: sure ... we must port the feature in the best way :)
17:28 garycmartin ajay: for the initial pause before a batch can the UI be locked first, that's pretty strong feedback.
17:29 ajay garycmartin: sorry.. didn't fully understand u. u want to block the UI, during the pause you are talking about? If yes, that can be done :)
17:30 garycmartin ajay: When I start, say, a Copy to another volume. Locking the Journal UI as early as possible would provide good visual feedback, even before counting or calculating anything about what is to be copied.
17:31 ajay garycmartin: hmm.. agreed. Will do it.
17:31 garycmartin ajay: One last one on my list ;)
17:32 ajay: Should volumes be disabled while in multi select mode, or can they just clear multi select mode if the user changes volume?
17:32 manuq sorry I missed previous design meetings but I would like to ask..
17:32 how does multiselection work when the view is filtered?
17:32 for example filter by activity
17:32 garycmartin Currently they disable and grey out, the first few times I used it it was quite distracting and I wondered what the grey icons were.
17:33 manuq also, why entries are being deselected after they get copied?
17:33 garycmartin manuq: entries are being deselected after they get copied, that change has been reverted.
17:33 silbe garycmartin: would the usual busy cursor work or should we really block input and gray out everything?
17:34 Ariel_Calzada has quit IRC
17:34 manuq garycmartin: ok thanks
17:34 silbe (re. "copy to another volume" et al.)
17:34 garycmartin silbe: The busy cursor is already being used, but it takes a good few seconds (at least) before it starts
17:34 ajay garycmartin: Hmm.. what do u suggest (regarding the grayed volumes) ?
17:34 silbe garycmartin: that's something we can fix and maybe already have.
17:35 garycmartin silbe: Oh, and the busy cursor can't be relied on, you wont see in on a Touch device ;)
17:35 erikos garycmartin: oh yeah, good point
17:35 silbe garycmartin: ok :-/
17:35 erikos garycmartin: we should probably add that to our touch page as something to have an eye on
17:37 garycmartin manuq: multiselection when the view is filtered; Once you start making a selection the set of entries is locked until you exit multi-select mode. had some interesting bugs and workarounds there (what happens if you rename, or star while in multi select mode).
17:38 manuq garycmartin: yes, so good to have them locked
17:38 ajay garycmartin: what do u suggest (regarding the grayed volumes) ?
17:38 garycmartin ajay: regarding the grayed volumes; I'd suggest they do not grey, if a user does click one to switch volumes then you jusm right out of multi-select mode, and over to that volume.
17:38 silbe erikos: +1, we'll have to reconsider the places where we currently use busy cursors (CP sections, session end)
17:39 ajay garycmartin: ok, that should be fine (I don't remember anything that should cause a logical issue with this)
17:40 garycmartin ajay: But if there is no quick way to discard all the multi-select state and drop back to the regular Journal then this is a touch one (this is what the deselect all should be doing, right now it just slowly unwraps itself back to the usual Journal with no selections).
17:41 ajay: logical issue with this; the only argument could be that a user might expect their selections to be remembered between volumes. But not even Mountain Lion manages that! ;)
17:41 ajay garycmartin: hmm .. good idea :)   either both should be doable,, or none :)  i will see to it :)
17:42 tch___ <tch___!~tch@> has joined #sugar-meeting
17:42 ajay garycmartin: so we might have a way to deselect faster after all :P
17:42 garycmartin ajay: Fantastic! :)
17:43 kaametza_ has quit IRC
17:43 garycmartin OK, so let's move on. Are folks OK for another 15min of meeting and then calling it quits for today?
17:43 tch___ garycmartin: meeting yet? still?
17:43 silbe tch___: still. And hi! :)
17:43 ajay garycmartin, silbe, erikos, manuq: would it be ok if I send the "ported" sugar rpm on F17, the next time I send the rpm link?
17:44 tch___ silbe: ! hiho
17:44 erikos garycmartin: yes, 15 min is ok
17:44 ajay garycmartin, silbe, erikos, manuq: or we first wish to confirm the design on dx3 itself? whatever u say :)
17:44 silbe ajay: I don't care about rpms, only about patches. Whatever you do, please only send URLs on sugar-devel, not packages.
17:44 garycmartin tch___: still, you've missed multi-select, lease information, example support (we skipped pretty much over it).
17:45 ajay silbe: yep.. I have been sending the URLs only (except the first time) :P
17:45 silbe good ;)
17:45 garycmartin ajay: I'm happy testing with either, I assumed you might want the same fixes in DX3 but I guess you'll get more folks testing if you port now.
17:46 OK...
17:46 #topic Design review/testing/feedback of Touch features, patches available for testing (Simon)
17:46 ajay garycmartin: me too think the same. anyways .. i will first fix in dx3 anyways; that will be faster for the fixes :P  .. but yes, i am thinking of sending the "ported" rpm the next time (may be by end of this week)
17:47 garycmartin #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]Touch/Development
17:47 #link http://dev.laptop.org/~erikos/touch/
17:47 ajay: OK :)
17:49 So erikos have been working on lots of nice patches for many of the touch feature proposals. I've only just started to give them a go here on my XO-1.75
17:49 manuq same here
17:50 erikos great, thanks
17:50 garycmartin The various "Make-the-palette-come-up-on-left-click" type patches make quite an improvement even for normal Mouse/trackpad use :)
17:51 erikos ok, I can wrap that up and send as a general patch to the ml
17:51 silbe garycmartin: +1, lets merge them ASAP.
17:51 erikos garycmartin: another interesting one is probably the frame one
17:53 garycmartin erikos: and the "New-frame-interaction" is working well, it makes the Frame toggle open when you raise it via a hot corner so you don't have to worry about where your mouse cursor is, and it also closes instantly when you hit the corner again (or use the Keyboard frame key)
17:54 erikos garycmartin: ok, glad you like it
17:55 garycmartin erikos: I'm not sure about overloading the square-game-button as a Frame shortcut, but it's handy just now for testing while we wait for Frame gestures and/or the top left frame button.
17:56 erikos: I do like it. I was a little worried thinking it over before I tested your patch. I was concerned a user may not work out who to make it go away. Perhaps can try out the behaviour on an unsuspecting user :))
17:58 erikos garycmartin: great
17:58 garycmartin: yeah the game button was a quick hack
17:58 garycmartin: I don't find it too bad, at least for a fallback
17:58 ok, I can wrap those up and send to the ml
17:59 garycmartin erikos: yes it's fine for testing, but will clash with some activities.
17:59 erikos let me know if espacially dislike something or want anything to be tweaked
17:59 garycmartin: for example maze
17:59 garycmartin erikos: So my plan for tomorrow is to try and re-build maliit and test your remaining three related patches
17:59 erikos garycmartin: but I think maze is using it wrongly actually
17:59 garycmartin erikos: example: read
17:59 erikos ahh, ok - read
18:00 garycmartin erikos: I have one new item to think on...
18:00 erikos garycmartin: peter is just pushing on the maliit end
18:00 garycmartin: maybe you are lucky and get an rpm ;p
18:00 garycmartin: ok
18:00 manuq :)
18:00 erikos manuq: yeah, you are happy about that as well I am sure ;p
18:01 garycmartin erikos: Long delay holds on icons currently trigger the slow reveal behaviour, even if a simple tap/click gives the instant palette...
18:01 erikos: example: hold down on a Buddy icon in the neighbourhood view, vs just tap/click it.
18:02 erikos ok
18:02 but this will be handed by toch&hold later right?
18:02 to be == right click
18:03 garycmartin is wondering if long holding on an icon that has no hidden/advanced features should do nothing.
18:04 erikos ahh, I see
18:04 garycmartin erikos: touch&hold, yes this will kinda cover it. It will be slower than a single quick tap, but may also have that groovy circle fill animation suggesting some special is going to happen.
18:05 erikos yeah, we can play with it when we have the stuff in place
18:05 can you add it to the page?
18:05 garycmartin I need to experiment a little more, but just wanted to raise that case.
18:05 silbe notes that we're past the additional 15 minutes now. Stomach grumbles...
18:06 erikos garycmartin: yeah, great
18:06 silbe: yes
18:06 is fine with closing
18:06 more async
18:07 rafael_ is now known as rafa
18:07 rafa is now known as rafael_
18:07 garycmartin #action add concerns on touch&hold feedback for when there are no hidden/advanced features being revealed on a button to the wiki - Gary
18:07 OK, same here!
18:08 :)
18:08 Starting at 5!
18:08 erikos yeay 4
18:08 manuq 4
18:08 ajay 3
18:08 tch___ 2
18:09 manuq 1
18:09 garycmartin silbe: want a 0.5?
18:09 silbe 0.4 :-P
18:10 tch___ 0.0001
18:10 Cerlyn iota
18:10 garycmartin #endmeeting
18:10 meeting Meeting ended Tue Aug 14 18:10:36 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
18:10 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-14T16:47:13.html
18:10 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]12-08-14T16:47:13
18:10 garycmartin Thanks everyone! :)
18:11 manuq thank you garycmartin
18:11 silbe Thanks for the meetings!
18:11 erikos garycmartin: thanks for having us!
18:11 garycmartin Now go eat, or whatever it is you need to all do!!! :)
18:11 silbe ?  vegetarian burger feast on balconia
18:12 garycmartin silbe: Mmmmmm, enjoy!
18:12 silbe thx!
18:18 ajay garycmartin: thanks for the meeting... very productive one !!!
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19:03 pflores__ gonzalo_ rafael_ cjl let's start meeting about TamTam in 10 min, ok?
19:04 gonzalo_ pflores__, i am here
19:04 rafael_ here
19:04 gonzalo_ pflores__, if you want we can do a google hangout too
19:04 hi rafael_ !
19:05 pflores__ gonzalo_ rafael_ as you prefer. However, I don't have a camera in the moment
19:05 gonzalo_ pflores__, we know you anyway :)
19:05 pflores__ gonzalo_ does hangouts work ok for you in your transformer? It's not working well for me :(
19:06 gonzalo_ pflores__, i am not using the transformer at this moment, but yes, works
19:06 rafael_ pflores__, gonzalo_ I preffer irc.
19:06 gonzalo_ better with headphones/mic
19:07 no problem , when pflores__ is ready we can start
19:11 pflores__ gonzalo_ rafael_ cjl ready!
19:11 #startmeeting
19:11 cjl waves
19:11 meeting Meeting started Tue Aug 14 19:11:11 2012 UTC. The chair is pflores__. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:11 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
19:11 pflores__ should we talk in English or Spanish?
19:11 cjl is around, so I guess English will be best
19:11 rafael_ pflores__, maybe english as cjl is here also.
19:12 +1
19:12 cjl :-)
19:12 pflores__ #topic TamTam porting
19:12 gonzalo_ IIRC a time ago we talked abt it and you were to make some analysis
19:12 to see if your team could take it
19:13 could you make some progress on it?
19:13 (just to state where we're standing)
19:13 gonzalo_ pflores__, yes, as i ponted you by mail, i don't think will be possible for me do the port this cycle
19:14 is a lot of work, and i needed set priorities
19:14 pflores__ gonzalo_ ok, did you talk abt it with Langhoff?
19:14 gonzalo_ pflores__, yes, he know it
19:14 pflores__ as I think he had it as a very important activity to show off for XO-duo
19:14 gonzalo_ pflores__, yes, i agree
19:15 pflores__ gonzalo_ so should we just delay it to the next dev cycle?
19:15 rafael_ gonzalo_, pflores__  we have flavio as resource to work on it.
19:15 gonzalo_ pflores__, yes
19:15 rafael_ gonzalo_, btw when is your next dev cycle ?
19:16 pflores__ rafael_ Yes, but looking at the schedule, I'm afraid we won't be able to apply the HIG to all the activities we have in hands + do TamTam porting
19:16 gonzalo_ rafael_, i think flavio already looked at it , and agreed is difficult for him
19:16 rafael_ gonzalo_, yes, i was thinking more as a coordinate effort.
19:16 between 2 devs for example.
19:16 pflores__ yes, it's a matter of time, it would probably take him a whole month or more
19:17 rafael_ pflores__, +1.
19:17 gonzalo_ rafael_, november approx
19:17 rafael_ pflores__, there is no problem in delaing this, but we should agree in someway/sometime to handle it.
19:18 gonzalo_, thx.
19:18 cjl And best if only one person bugs Flipo for info on old code
19:18 gonzalo_ rafael_, pflores__ aside of tamtam, should be good if we have the already ported activities published in aslo to start the test asap
19:19 pflores__ gonzalo_ do you think we could do a joint effort (probably since January)?
19:19 rafael_ gonzalo_, yes agree.
19:19 gonzalo_ rafael_, pflores__ i am publish our activities as sugar 0.98 - 0.98 to not disturb normal users
19:19 pflores__, yes, january sounds ok
19:19 rafael_ gonzalo_, we are doing the same.
19:19 pflores__ gonzalo_ we're doing some testing internally, including a broad set of test cases
19:20 rafael_ gonzalo_, regarding aslo versioning.
19:20 cjl pflores__: Do you guys have access to h/w for touch testing?
19:20 pflores__ gonzalo_ so I guess we should coordinate QA efforts
19:20 rafael_ cjl yes.
19:20 cjl ok
19:20 gonzalo_ pflores__, it's ok, but remember in the part at times there are problems in activities related to artwork/toolkit bugs/fixes
19:21 pflores__ cjl we have 2 in UY, 1 in CO, 1 in IN, 1 in ES :)
19:21 gonzalo_ pflores__, then we need all the help posible to test
19:22 pflores__, rafael_ we are filling porting bugs with the gtk3 keyword
19:22 http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/quer[…]ne&keywords=~gtk3
19:22 rafael_ gonzalo_, noted.
19:22 pflores__ gonzalo_ we've put priority in the activities we have on our side, but we can review available resources for helping your testing
19:23 cjl On TamTam and touch, it is obviously an ideal time to add an 88-key piano keyboard, is that in the plans?
19:23 gonzalo_ pflores__, perfect, i am looking at the missing parts in toolkit/artwork, then, as soon we have reported the problems, better
19:24 cjl, yes, we only need clone a developer :/
19:24 cjl :-)
19:24 pflores__ :)
19:24 gonzalo_ we are not short of ideas, only of hands
19:24 cjl That is somethin gt oping Flipo about, he did other touch work.
19:24 he may have some useful ideas
19:25 or some reusable code
19:25 pflores__ gonzalo_ so when should we schedule to start working on TamTam?
19:25 rafael_ gonzalo_, that development ideas is what we have to coordinate.for instance are we going to change actual csound for a posterior version?. etc.
19:25 pflores__ it would be good to plan it ahead
19:25 gonzalo_ pflores__, at the start of the next olpc cycle
19:26 pflores__ gonzalo_ that's december, right?
19:26 cjl If CSound bogs you down, let me know, barry Vercoe owes me for maori work I'm doing.
19:26 pflores__ gonzalo_ doesn't seem to be the best moment for us...
19:26 gonzalo_ pflores, this is our schedule http://wiki.laptop.org/go/12.2.0/Release_plan
19:26 rafael_ cjl +1.
19:27 gonzalo_ pflores__, final release Dec 6
19:27 cjl Although ther eis also tah Python sound engine to consider, /me blanks on name now)
19:27 pflores__ so if you mean right after, it would be Decembre
19:28 gonzalo_ pflores__, rafael_ cjl , i can't do too much planning now , but we need:
19:28 pflores__ I guess December will be very busy for us
19:28 rafael_ cjl, yeah I have the same consideration on my list..
19:28 gonzalo_ * port to gtk3
19:28 * update the UI
19:28 rafael_ pflores__, +1
19:28 gonzalo_ * check the backend csound /etc
19:28 pflores__ and January will probably be problematic because of vacations
19:28 cjl Beware of overplanning December (holidays will cost you more than you think)
19:29 pflores__ gonzalo_ are you including adding a piano keyboard to 'update the UI'?
19:29 gonzalo_ pflores__, you really need define this now?
19:29 pflores__, yes
19:29 pflores__ gonzalo_ not to define, but would like to have an overall idea to propose to Sridhar
19:30 as OLPC-AU will be the affected onesz
19:30 ones
19:31 gonzalo_ let's keep this preliminary plan, is good enough for me
19:32 rafael_ pflores__, as gonzalo_ said we need to clone a developer :/.
19:32 pflores__, but overall is pretty the close/better thing we can do for now..is to delay the porting.
19:33 pflores__ cjl I think in December/January we'll be able to work on a plan, and then we can see whose help we may need...
19:33 cjl rafael_: Somene senior-ish talking to Flipo about possible new devs might be worth a try (he may know some people)
19:33 pflores__ rafael_ +1
19:34 cjl Start taslking t opFlipo now about recruting someone ne wand you may have them in December
19:34 gonzalo_ pflores__, rafael_ we need continue working with all the other issues we have, and improve our communication / coordination
19:34 rafael_ cjl ok that's a good idea also.
19:34 pflores__ cjl of course, if you could find the developer to do it, it would be great :)
19:35 gonzalo_ rafael_ some other thing you wanted to discuss now?
19:35 cjl I'm not sure if I'm the right recruiter, but I'd be game to try, who wants to be CC'edc on tha conversation?
19:35 rafael_ pflores__, no.
19:36 cjl I can state tah AC aned OLPC are officially collaborating on a ne wtamTam (port, touch, etc.) and we'd love input from prior devs or people they suggest?
19:36 gonzalo_ rafael_, if you can complete http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Acti[…]ies/PortingToGtk3 , great
19:36 rafael_ cjl all the present on this meeting, I guess.
19:36 pflores__ rafael_ +1
19:36 cjl ok
19:37 rafael_ gonzalo_, I'l update some info there.
19:37 l*
19:37 gonzalo_ rafael_, thanks
19:37 pflores__ ok, thanks guys!
19:37 4
19:37 gonzalo_ rafael_, are you reviewing flavio work?
19:37 rafael_ gonzalo_, indeed.
19:37 gonzalo_, he has improved a lot.
19:38 3
19:38 gonzalo_ 2
19:38 rafael_ 1
19:38 pflores__ #endmeeting
19:38 meeting Meeting ended Tue Aug 14 19:38:24 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
19:38 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-14T19:11:11.html
19:38 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]12-08-14T19:11:11
19:38 gonzalo_ ok, by guys!
19:38 bye
19:38 pflores__ bye!
19:38 rafael_ gonzalo_, bye.
19:42 cjl I'll draft up a description (job spec) and share it before I send it out,
19:43 Goal is to identify a new Python coder with music interest, maybe CSound experience, will be collaborating with senior OLPC and AC devs who will supply the Sugary goodness.
19:43 Touch experience a definite plus
19:44 Does tha sound rgiht rafael_ pflores__ gonzalo_
19:44 pflores__ cjl GTK and cairo are important experience needs
19:44 cjl pf ok, added t othe lsit
19:44 rafael_ cjl cool.
19:44 pflores__ cjl sounds good, but if it's about hiring, I'm not sure who would pay for it :)
19:44 gonzalo_ cjl, if you found all this... can be really happy :)
19:45 cjl I'll reach out thrpugh Flipo and Barry.  No pay being offered, jsut working wit hcool people on cool project
19:45 pflores__ cjl ok, we definitely can offer that :)
19:46 rafael_ back to work.
19:46 cjl Can we also offer touch h/w t othe right candidate?
19:46 rafael_: ?
19:47 pflores__ cjl I think so, but this is something to confirm with OLPC-AU and OLPC
19:47 and/or
19:47 cjl We'll give it a fancy name like the TamTam Rejuvenation Project to make it seem important :-)
19:47 rafael_ cjl, what pablo said ;)
19:48 cjl ok, I think h/w access will be impt, so you guys should check on the availability of h/w in the Dec/Jan timeframe.
19:49 It's sort fo a directed Contributopr's Program thing.
19:49 Access to prottype hardware may be a big draw for some devs.
19:50 I don't want to dangle tah ttcarrot if it can't happen.
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