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#sugar-meeting, 2012-08-07

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15:01 erikos are people here waiting for the developer meeting?
15:02 Cerlyn I'm just watching to see if one happens
15:10 erikos Cerlyn: now see what happens:
15:10 gonzalo__ hello boys
15:10 erikos #startmeeting
15:10 m_anish :)
15:10 meeting_ Meeting started Tue Aug  7 15:10:10 2012 UTC. The chair is erikos. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:10 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
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15:10 benzea hello everyone
15:11 garycmartin Hi folks
15:12 erikos thanks for being with us
15:12 so I have two things to say from my part:
15:12 - 0.98 schedule
15:12 - maintainers
15:12 anything else people want to bring up?
15:12 m_anish listens eagerly :-)
15:13 benzea erikos: hm, maybe there is some interesting news from GUADEC?
15:13 m_anish erikos, also, any news frm GUADEC
15:13 benzea, beat me to it :P
15:13 erikos sure, did you guys read my blog post?
15:13 garycmartin erikos: yea
15:14 m_anish erikos, you have a blog? (link pls?)
15:14 manuq <manuq!~manuq@host102.186-125-107.telecom.net.ar> has joined #sugar-meeting
15:14 erikos http://erikos.sweettimez.de/20[…]2012-in-a-coruna/
15:14 manuq hi
15:14 erikos m_anish: is on the planet ^
15:14 m_anish erikos, ok
15:14 erikos manuq: you had a GUADEC blog post as well, right?
15:15 benzea hm, I seem to have missed that
15:15 manuq erikos: yes! http://manuq.com.ar/sblog/my-guadec-experience/
15:15 erikos manuq: did you manage to get on the planet already?
15:16 benzea: ^^^ here are two blog posts with summaries
15:16 m_anish erikos, I also wanted to bring up something which should also be on sugar dev's radar... about OLPC XO's using the gnome 3 fallback mode and the regressions it might have over gnome 2.x (but i understand its not strictly a sugar topic)
15:16 manuq erikos: not yet, thanks for the reminder, I'll try bernie in #sugar
15:16 erikos manuq: great
15:17 m_anish: yeah, an OLPC topic, maybe best to ask on the olpc-devel list
15:17 m_anish erikos, gnome-sugar integration has been one objective of our development, and we will probably end up using gnome-3 fallback mode (which I understand isn't even properly maintained atm)
15:17 erikos, ok
15:17 erikos m_anish: yeah, they are looking for a new maintainer indeed
15:18 ok, i hope that is enough GUADEC-food for you as a start
15:18 m_anish :)
15:19 benzea m_anish: well, they hope to be able to drop the fallback mode with llvmpipe, iirc
15:19 m_anish benzea, ok, didn't know that
15:19 erikos #topic 0.98 roadmap
15:19 gonzalo__ benzea, using a pipe, yeah :)
15:19 erikos benzea: yeah, they need to proof that it is working, though ;p
15:19 gonzalo__ or smoking a pipe
15:19 erikos gonzalo__: haha
15:20 benzea gonzalo__: I don't need to smoke to come up with weird stuff ;-)
15:20 erikos I drafted a first roadmap at http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.98/Roadmap
15:20 manuq erikos: great
15:20 erikos well, to tell you upfront, it is as well the final one :))
15:21 so there are a few things to say about this
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15:21 erikos (I will send an email as well tosugar-devel with more details)
15:21 (but you guys are privileged to hear first)
15:22 - we do not stick to the 6 month cycle as an exception
15:22 final release is Nov 07
15:22 instead of releasing in September
15:22 m_anish when's the feature acceptance?
15:23 erikos m_anish: smart question ;p
15:23 m_anish erikos, thx for the update btw :-)
15:23 erikos m_anish: it should have been happened already the acceptance
15:23 m_anish: so from my side I care about two things in this cycle:
15:24 - shell port
15:24 - touch support
15:24 and everything else is supplementary to this
15:25 means, if you have a self-contained feature that does not interact with this
15:25 you are good
15:25 if you do, hmmm...hmmm :)
15:25 m_anish hmm, well that's hard, nearly everything would be affected by the shell port :-P
15:25 erikos, has the port already been done (or an ETA)?
15:25 erikos this cycle is an exception, since we (OLPC) have a lot to do to make touch work
15:26 m_anish erikos, +1
15:26 garycmartin erikos: +1!
15:26 erikos (sorry in advance, or congratulations because hopefully it will rock :)
15:26 anyhow, the shell port is on it's way
15:27 the de-hippo stuff is ready, in the review queue
15:27 and manuq has been working on the GTK+ 3 port while I was away
15:27 my plan is: 3-4 weeks for the shell finish (including merging)
15:28 4 weeks of touch features, until the (Feature freeze)
15:28 and then use the 2 weeks until UI/String freeze if we need to do any changes to the stuff we landed
15:29 sounds like a tuff schedule? it is :)
15:29 stops for a moment and waits for reactions
15:29 m_anish erikos, can we make an exception on delaying the feature freeze... as in, it might take us some time to port the many dx features on top of the ported sugar-shell, atleast those which have been approved in the design meetings
15:30 erikos m_anish: delaying for how long?
15:30 garycmartin erikos: Could you say some words about Activity freeze timings?
15:31 m_anish erikos, I don't have a clear picture atm, I suspect we'll need _atleast_ 2-4 weeks after the shell port is done to have all the dx features ported... or should we start that process now?
15:31 erikos garycmartin: if you want them to be in the OLPC build, would be the same timings
15:31 garycmartin erikos: OK, understood!
15:31 erikos garycmartin: great :)
15:32 m_anish erikos, btw, given the circumstances, it seems like a decent roadmap
15:32 erikos m_anish: so the plan is to have the shell ready in 3-4 weeks
15:32 m_anish: that would give you those 4 weeks until feature freeze
15:32 gonzalo__ erikos, 6 weeks from now to activities?
15:32 ajay erikos: The 3G database support is already at http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]-July/038604.html. It's just pending code-review
15:33 erikos gonzalo__: not really ;p
15:33 gonzalo__ erikos, or 10 weeks?
15:33 ajay erikos: for the "multi-select", I think that should be approved soon (today's design-meeting)?
15:33 erikos gonzalo__: nearly :)
15:33 ajay garycmartin: ^^  :)
15:33 m_anish erikos, hmm, feature freeze is marked as 24 sep 6 week frm now (or maybe i'm missing something)
15:33 erikos gonzalo__: 7 weeks up to the feature freeze
15:33 ajay erikos: the multi-select port shouls take a maximum of 3 days from my side.
15:33 erikos gonzalo__: then 2 more weeks where you can fixup the UI/string of the features you landed
15:34 gonzalo__: without exceptions
15:34 gonzalo__: and then you are in bugfix only period
15:34 garycmartin ajay: I can't +1 it yet from a design point of view. And I've not had a chance to test out your latest patches from over the weekend.
15:34 m_anish erikos, oops, 7 weeks, so seems like a decent enough window (/me stops complaining :P)
15:34 erikos gonzalo__: I thought first of doing a big freeze in 9 weeks, but I hope decoupling makes it clearer
15:34 ajay garycmartin: ok, :-\
15:35 erikos m_anish: yeah, time is running out
15:35 m_anish garycmartin, hopefully our pipeline will be done by then (~4 weeks frm now)
15:35 erikos m_anish: we are driven this time to get something ready for the new hardware
15:35 m_anish erikos, +1
15:36 manuq yes, I hope everyone can understand the implications of such a big task
15:36 gonzalo__ erikos, in activities, feature freeze is major features, and we have until to Oct 22 to land bug fixes
15:36 erikos I hope for 1.0 (or maybe (0.100)) we can get back to the 6 month model
15:37 gonzalo__: yes, you have until oct 22 for bug fixes
15:37 gonzalo__ erikos, ok
15:37 erikos gonzalo__: and then until nov 07 for approved bug fixes (does it show a regression)
15:38 gonzalo__ erikos, ok
15:38 erikos gonzalo__: a) i hope that is enough b) does it make sense?
15:38 gonzalo__: anything you would do different?
15:38 gonzalo__ erikos, i hope we have the regresions solved earlier :/
15:39 erikos, Oct 22 is ok with me
15:39 erikos gonzalo__: normally activities besides core ones (e.g. Browse) are decoupled from that, but as the OLPC release will be in december you have to be ready by then anyhow
15:39 gonzalo__: great
15:40 m_anish gonzalo__, just curious, I'm aware there's a big gtk3 porting effort on right now... what's the ETA for that (feel free to answer it after the meeting ;-)) and any plans of 'touch-porting' after that
15:40 erikos gonzalo__: I hope the separation between Feature freeze and UI freeze will help us to make changes to features once they landed (sometimes you find an issue only then that does effect UI/String changes) without having to do the exception limbo
15:41 garycmartin: the design meeting is in 40 minutes?
15:41 s/40/50
15:41 garycmartin erikos: Yep
15:41 erikos ok
15:41 gonzalo__ m_anish, is a good question :)
15:41 m_anish, actually, we have decided today stop porting activities
15:42 m_anish, in the next days, i will publish the ported activities in aslo as 0.98 activities
15:42 m_anish, testing is appreciated, we want detect regresions ASAP
15:43 m_anish gonzalo__, okay, what's the best way to keep track of porting and release statuses
15:43 gonzalo__ m_anish, http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Acti[…]ate_of_Activities
15:43 m_anish gonzalo__, since we have a QA person looking to test them heavily :-)
15:43 gonzalo__ m_anish, anything like that? ^
15:43 m_anish, great
15:44 erikos m_anish: do you have a list of features you want to land with priorities maybe?
15:44 m_anish gonzalo__, which table is being maintained, OLPC/AC/Gary.. All? :-)
15:44 gonzalo__ m_anish, if they find regressions in activities after the port, please tell them add the keyword "gtk3" to the ticket
15:45 m_anish gonzalo__, for eg. chat version is listed as v76 whereas on ASLO is v77
15:45 gonzalo__ m_anish, the tables are separated by groups pf maintainers (we count Gary and Walter as groups because of their productivity) :)
15:45 m_anish also is the case with some other activities
15:45 gonzalo__ m_anish, great, you can uptade this page
15:45 erikos would like to be a 'group' as well ;p
15:46 m_anish gonzalo__, ideally i want the activitity guys to do it :-P
15:46 gonzalo__ erikos, only when you finish the shell port ;)
15:46 m_anish, perfect, push them! :)
15:47 m_anish gonzalo__, okay, i think you answered my questin though, the link is to be considered golden when it comes to tracking releases
15:47 thx
15:47 erikos gonzalo__: that is a fair prize!
15:48 gonzalo__ m_anish, your testing guys are in sugar-devel or testing ml?
15:48 erikos likes how gonzalo__ adds plurals ;p
15:48 m_anish gonzalo__, we're in early stages there... you'll hear from them soon :-)
15:48 gonzalo__ is liberal in the use of "s" :)
15:49 erikos m_anish: as long as it is not again the 1000 indian developers that show up over night we are ok :)
15:49 m_anish erikos, i had no idea where they came from or where they went :-P
15:49 gonzalo__ erikos, the mythical 1000 developers :)
15:49 m_anish gonzalo__, hehe :)
15:50 erikos add one and you have a tale ;p
15:50 great, so m_anish you are still coordinating the feature efforts at AC it looks like
15:50 if you look at them, take the dates into account ;p
15:51 I will be fully focused on the touch stuff (have to), so silbe should be with you in review and such for them
15:51 I trust him here to do the right thing
15:52 and which leads me to the next (and final topic):
15:52 #topic maintainers
15:52 m_anish erikos, i'll try to be as involved as possible
15:52 erikos, one more topic as well (new volunteers : kartik_perisetla ) :)
15:53 erikos ok, if there is a new person that coordinates that effort at AC, please transfer your wisdom :)
15:53 adds Anish's topic
15:53 kartik_perisetla Hi Team
15:53 gonzalo__ hello!
15:53 erikos I sent a proposal to the ml to add manuq as a maintainer, just reply on the thread what you think
15:54 subject: "Proposal: Adding Manuel Quiñones as a Sugar shell maintainer"
15:54 #topic new contributors
15:54 hi kartik_perisetla, welcome
15:54 do you want to introduce yourself?
15:54 kartik_perisetla Hi erikos
15:55 manuq kartik_perisetla: hi
15:55 kartik_perisetla sure. I am a software engg by profession
15:55 who is passionate abt sugar. :-)
15:56 I am pretty much exited to contribut and learn from here
15:57 silbe kartik_perisetla: Welcome to Sugar Labs!
15:58 kartik_perisetla I am working on activity tht will help children to develop web pages and webapps
15:58 thnx silbe!
15:58 erikos kartik_perisetla: very interesting
15:58 kartik_perisetla: I actually had an idea about integrating that directly into Browse
15:58 m_anish kartik_perisetla, welcome!
15:59 kartik_perisetla currently i am discussing it on thread. got many valuable feedbacks. :-)
15:59 erikos kartik_perisetla: so that the browse activity is not just about 'consuming' it would be as well about 'creating' (like the modes in memorize for example)
15:59 kartik_perisetla sure , we can do that.
15:59 erikos kartik_perisetla: great, a good approach
16:00 kartik_perisetla thanks erikos.
16:00 i would like to thank daniel for this :-)
16:00 erikos it might overload Browse, but a path to consider at least
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16:01 kartik_perisetla I will come with features and design. also, I will share my thoughts on sugar-devel
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16:02 m_anish kartik_perisetla, sounds promising :-)
16:03 erikos great
16:03 kartik_perisetla :-D
16:03 erikos I guess we can wrap up now...
16:03 next time we will announce again the meeting properly
16:03 but was good to have you guys for an informal chat
16:03 starts countdown
16:03 5
16:03 silbe 4
16:03 m_anish 4
16:04 benzea 3
16:04 ajay 3
16:04 garycmartin 2
16:04 kartik_perisetla 2
16:04 erikos hehe
16:04 garycmartin :)
16:04 manuq 1
16:04 erikos #endmeeting
16:04 meeting_ Meeting ended Tue Aug  7 16:04:29 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
16:04 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-07T15:10:10.html
16:04 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]12-08-07T15:10:10
16:04 erikos cheers!
16:04 m_anish erikos, thx for the meeting!!
16:05 kartik_perisetla Thanks erikos!
16:05 garycmartin Thanks folks
16:06 runs off to sort out notes for Design meeting in 25min...
16:10 m_anish ajay, kartik_perisetla, btw, there's a pycon happening in b'lore (in Sep i think) might be an opportunity to present some sugar talks on something interesting you might work(ed) on ;-)
16:10 shifts over to #sugar
16:15 kartik_perisetla That's awesome ..
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16:30 garycmartin #startmeeting
16:30 meeting_ Meeting started Tue Aug  7 16:30:14 2012 UTC. The chair is garycmartin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:30 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
16:30 garycmartin Hey folks, who do we have left for the design meeting today?
16:30 m_anish is here
16:30 ajay hi garycmartin
16:31 garycmartin m_anish: ajay hi!
16:31 m_anish garycmartin, hi!
16:31 manuq hi garycmartin et all!
16:31 tch___ hiho
16:32 garycmartin Hi tch___ glad you could make it, manuq glad you're still here :)
16:32 m_anish tch___, buen dia!
16:32 erikos lurks
16:32 tch___ :)
16:32 garycmartin OK then, let's dive right in to the first agenda item
16:33 #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Design_Team/Meetings
16:33 #topic Lease expiry information display in My Settings
16:33 #link http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]-July/038571.html
16:33 #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]formation_Display
16:33 m_anish So I think I answered dsd's query and didn't get a reply, the only bit of confusion i think is where to place it
16:33 garycmartin The mail-list thread on this one has been pretty active, some good feedback I think.
16:34 m_anish fwiw, I liked gonzalo's suggestion of creating a separate security heading, but might use up more space just for a single item ... so open to ideas :-)
16:34 garycmartin, +1
16:34 garycmartin m_anish: Yes I think that's the point to resolve, where it should go.
16:35 m_anish: I liked the suggestion from gonzalo__ for a new Security section.
16:35 Ariel_Calzada1 <Ariel_Calzada1!~aricalso@201.184.226.52> has joined #sugar-meeting
16:35 m_anish garycmartin, +1 from me to it
16:35 Ariel_Calzada has quit IRC
16:36 tch___ garycmartin: me too, sounds like it could help to avoid confiusion
16:36 ajay garycmartinm_anish, tch__: +1
16:36 m_anish garycmartin, there seemed to be some other rearranging of fields needed (mentioned in the ml thread) but those are different frm the lease info
16:36 garycmartin It can go below the Identity section, and in the future could hold a few more items of information if available. If there is no Security related information then the Security section does not need to be shown.
16:37 m_anish garycmartin, +1
16:38 garycmartin OK, do we have any objections here for adding (when needed) a Security section to the About My Computer module?
16:38 m_anish No
16:38 qwebirc1009583 <qwebirc1009583!3bb2a7ad@gateway/web/freenode/ip.59.178.167.173> has joined #sugar-meeting
16:38 tch___ nop
16:38 ajay nopes
16:39 garycmartin OK, +1 from me
16:39 manuq: Any thoughts on this one or are you still catching up sleep after GUADEC? ;)
16:40 tch___ haha
16:41 garycmartin Suggestion: I'll make a screen shot mockup of this CP with the added section and post it to the mail-list thread.
16:41 m_anish either gnome or sugar needs a better notification system :-P
16:41 garycmartin m_anish: ;)
16:41 m_anish garycmartin, okay, makes sense
16:42 garycmartin #action Post a screenshot mockup of the proposed Security section for showing the lease information (gary)
16:42 manuq garycmartin: is fine for me
16:42 garycmartin OK onwards and upwards!
16:42 manuq: thanks :)
16:43 #topic Journal multi-select
16:43 #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]ction_screenshots
16:43 m_anish braces for a long discussion ;)
16:43 garycmartin #link http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]-July/038558.html
16:44 ajay: So you'll be glad to hear I _do_ have your two latest rpms (sugar and sugar-toolkit) installed happily on the XO-1 DX3 here, but I've just had minimal time to experiment with it and test!
16:45 ajay garycmartin: awesome!! mailing-list is always up to the rescue, to have  post-meeting discussions :)
16:46 garycmartin ajay: absolutely (mail-list is best as it provides many eyes)
16:46 so...
16:46 ajay garycmartin: (just for brevity), I have incorporated all the BUG-fixes/FEEDBACK-changes, as per you. So, as of now, I am done from my side. The ball is in your court now :)
16:47 garycmartin I can say the feedback in the Toolbar is looking great, no more feedback dialogues popping up all the time :)
16:47 ajay +1. me too realised this is MUCH better and sleeker :D
16:47 m_anish garycmartin, btw, sorry to interrupt, dsd just replied to the lease info thread, and he also acknowledges the importance of this feature... there are some tech details we need to work out (i'll reply to the thread)
16:48 garycmartin ajay: Yes. So the one obvious side step you made was your work around for the 'what if you rename' bug ;)
16:48 m_anish ajay, garycmartin how's the speed (just curious)
16:48 garycmartin m_anish: Speed is a second item I'd like to raise...
16:49 ajay garycmartin: yes. and I mentioned the reason too, in the m-l, and the patch. It is a logical issue (regarding proper-fix).
16:50 garycmartin: Please read the "VERY IMPORTANT NOTE" in http://git.sugarlabs.org/dextr[…]4277642252cae628f
16:50 garycmartin So 1) the workaround for the bug triggered by renaming in select mode while on documents volume needs a proper fix (I can't believe the maintainers would let this on slip past code wise when they review).
16:50 ajay: Yes, I saw the note :)
16:50 Regarding speed...
16:51 ajay garycmartin: That would be a big change (from what I see as of now). Anyhow, I will reply on the m-l, and seek opinions if someone has a "workaround" idea, that could fix this properly.
16:52 garycmartin ajay: With 100 Journal items, your latest patch with the fix for the tickbox redraws works well, but takes about 1second to draw the tick.
16:52 ajay garycmartin: Right now, that would require how UIDs are constructed for non-journal folders.
16:52 garycmartin: (regarding) speed, that's expected. The window is hidden, then made visible, per entry. Only then the "redraw" takes effect
16:54 garycmartin: but that i guess is ok anyways, since there is a (bigger, more time-consuming) refresh in non-editing mode (for eg, when a favorite-icon is clicked).
16:55 garycmartin The 1sec (on an XO-1) is not great, but not fatal (improvements would be nice polish to the feature). Where the problem shows up is when using Select all, or Deselect all. The batch operation redraws for ever single update one by one, a second each time. It it possible to just update the Toolbar status text, and only redraw the list view at the end?
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16:58 garycmartin ajay ^^
16:58 ajay garycmartin: that should be possible. But there will not be the "textual" and "visual" feedback per entry side by side; though it would be alright at the end (after all entries are selected/deslected)
16:58 garycmartin: so yes, I would do that (if it's ok for you).
16:59 garycmartin: sorry for a little delay, I had been disconnected :-\
17:00 garycmartin ajay: If the status in the toolbar is counting through the items as it goes, this gives visual feedback and 'motion' to the UI, you eye would be naturally drawn up there to the visual changes.
17:00 ajay garycmartin: yep, you are right.
17:01 dirakx <dirakx!~rafael@190.159.157.143> has joined #sugar-meeting
17:01 ajay garycmartin: fine.. so i will make the change (shouldn't take more than 15 mins)
17:02 garycmartin ajay: So I think it's OK that in large batch operations the main list view doesn't have to be in immediate sync with the progress number. You could do an alternative an perhaps redraw avery 20 items (or a similar number)?
17:03 ajay garycmartin: hmm.. that would be better. But, it now comes down  to heuristics. What number do u suggest?
17:04 garycmartin How fast is it when there are no redraws? (I guess I'm asking if ~90% of the time is lost in the redraw)
17:05 ajay garycmartin: I think 90% is too less the time-saved. I would say the time-saved is of the order of 99%
17:05 garycmartin ajay: Do we know what items are visible? And only redraw when they change?
17:05 m_anish has to leave (sorry)... will come back and see the logs later
17:06 ajay garycmartin: in select-all/deselect-all, all the items change :)
17:06 garycmartin m_anish: Thanks for staying around this long!.
17:06 ajay garycmartin: in single-mode, we HAVE to redraw per click
17:06 tch___ in select/deselect all does it refresh once per each item?
17:07 garycmartin ajay: "in single-mode, we HAVE to redraw per click" Yes understood. It's the Select all, Deselect all I'm worried about just now.
17:07 ajay garycmartin: Ohh.. you mean.. the redraw per entry? Well, that's not feasible. The treeview-treecolumn code is too tightly coupled
17:07 garycmartin tch___: yes, currently it's redrawing for each, 1sec for every change.
17:09 tch___ in that case I would really go for the chunks idea,
17:09 ajay garycmartin: anyways.. given that the users are anyways used to a "much-more-time-consuming" refresh (when the backend-frontend) both are involved when we click the favorite-icon, I am not thinking to much into this "frontend" refresh
17:09 garycmartin ajay: Ah so the backend forces a redraw on each change, and there is no way to stop it – I thought you have some evil code doing just that that was triggering the fav star redraw bug ;)
17:10 ajay garycmartin: no.. no.. right now, the "refresh" DOES NOT involve the backend; whereas the favorite-icon (in single-mode) does.
17:11 garycmartin: so, in that sense, we are still much better off (I think with the 900~ entries u r testing, the refresh in single mode will take much longer). just try.
17:12 garycmartin ajay: So can we can prevent the redraw of each entry tick in the view when the Select all button is clicked, so my 100 items doesn't leave me sitting there for almost two minutes?
17:12 is sorry but loosing grip on the implementation details here.
17:13 ajay garycmartin: yes, that's easy. We would then do one last redraw?
17:13 garycmartin ajay: Yes!
17:13 ajay garycmartin: great. so, please set this as the action-item
17:13 :D
17:13 tch___ :)
17:14 garycmartin ajay: The only extra question was if we should do some chunk updates, say a redraw every 10 or 25 batch entries?
17:14 ajay: you know, sort of the best of both worlds :)
17:14 ajay garycmartin: that too is possible. I think 10 would be a reasonable number? or 25?
17:14 garycmartin: whatever u say :D
17:15 tch___ It could be proportional to the no. of entries :P
17:15 garycmartin tch___: :P
17:15 tch___ just saying xD hehe
17:15 ajay garycmartin, tch___: every 1% of the total entries? what say?
17:16 garycmartin, tch___: that would be a ten-fold increase in speed
17:16 garycmartin thinks...
17:17 tch___ if its not too expensive to query that no. of items I would go with something proportional... If not, we could put something around 20, and test until its feels good
17:17 garycmartin ajay: How about always after first 10 entries (if your looking at top of Journal that is the first page folks will usually see), and then...
17:19 ajay garycmartin: after every 10 entries?
17:19 tch___ ajay: i guess hes thinking in 2 stages mode
17:20 ajay tch___: ohkk.. :P
17:20 garycmartin …then in 20% steps (or 10 entries if 20% is less)
17:22 Yes a two step, get the first page of entries updated (most folks will be looking at the top), and then every N entries, where N is at least 10, or 20% of total entries.
17:22 ajay garycmartin: ok.. for the first page, a redraw every 10 entries?
17:24 garycmartin ajay: Not quite, the first 10 entries, and then in 20% steps of total (but if 20% is less than 10, update in 10s)
17:24 tch___ we should keep this simple
17:24 garycmartin tch___: +1 :)
17:24 ajay garycmartin: a redraw pr entry, for the first 10 entries?
17:25 garycmartin OK, lest just go for 20% steps if this is too confusing...
17:25 ajay garycmartin: i understood the second part
17:25 tch___ please. :)
17:26 garycmartin ajay: No, a redraw after 10, and then in 20% steps. No single item redraws, all in batches.
17:26 ajay garycmartin, tch___: ok, so we fresh after every 20%. that would make it a total of 5 redraws in total, right?
17:26 tch___ for 100 items, yes
17:26 ajay garycmartin, tch___:   okkk
17:26 finally,
17:26 i wish to clarify
17:27 garycmartin, tch___: a redraw after first 10 entries; then after every 20% of entries, right?
17:27 tch___ ajay: i think thats what gary meant :)
17:28 ajay tch___: okies.. sorry.. got a bit confused.
17:28 garycmartin ajay: yea if implementation is not horrible :)
17:28 tch___ yup, please lets keep it simple on top of everything
17:29 ajay garycmartin: hmm.. it should not much be. luckily, the code is written in stages for any batch-feature; so should be a matter of making change at one place only
17:29 garycmartin ajay: Yes that 20% but not less than 10 is meant to avoid single slow redraws when you have like 15 items in total.
17:30 ajay garycmartin: okies.
17:30 tch___ sounds good!
17:30 garycmartin fav :)
17:31 ajay: OK one quick thing while I'm looking at it (just playing with the feature).
17:31 gonzalo__ ajay, has you tried disconnect the model from the view while updating the model? is possible?
17:32 ajay gonzalo__: disconnecting the model while in view? Hmm.. Could you give an example, please?
17:32 gonzalo__ ajay, i am looking at http://stackoverflow.com/quest[…]e-of-sorting?rq=1
17:33 ajay, but something similar is here http://blog.riff.org/2007_02_0[…]_gtktreeview_fast
17:33 tch___ gonzalo__: If i understand your concern, I think I did it for my implementation, but it was a horrible hack to disconnect the callbacks
17:33 gonzalo__ ajay, actually the second link is not applicable
17:34 tch___, i don't know the implementation, just asking
17:34 garycmartin ajay: The string has shouty capital letters for COPYING and ERASING, can we keep it normal case as per the original email thread. The braces and / can also go, so it's all in friendly text "Copying 4 of 27", "Erasing 7 of 9"
17:34 ajay gonzalo__: that's where the "refresh-inhibit" in multi-select mode helps. It was exactly because of this "reordering", that I had disabled refresh in multi-select mode.
17:35 garycmartin: ohh.. that should be trivial :D :D
17:35 garycmartin ajay: Oooops, Bug alert. The (Stop) feature for errors does not appear to work. I just erased my entire Journal! ;)
17:36 gonzalo__ ajay, ok
17:36 ajay garycmartin: oops.. what action were you trying to do?
17:36 garycmartin Erase.
17:36 (it's ok, just test data)
17:37 ajay garycmartin: you got an error in erase?
17:37 tch___ maybe he didn't confirm and still got deleted?
17:37 garycmartin Hmmmm…. retesting....
17:38 m_anish looks like some brainstorming is going on (/me listens ;-))
17:38 ajay garycmartin: never mind. reproduced it at my end.
17:38 should kill himself
17:39 garycmartin ajay: No error. Hit select all, Erase, and then Stop.
17:39 :)
17:39 ajay: Land the feature first!! ;)
17:40 m_anish ajay, for everytime you want kill yourself, remember you're saving lives in the real world :-P
17:40 tch___ lol..
17:40 ajay garycmartin: +1. And as erikos said, sometimes bug-fixes are better, when you land the feature :)
17:40 m_anish: :)
17:40 garycmartin ajay: Same bug for Copy (clicking Stop still copies over the files)
17:41 ajay garycmartin: yep. that is expected. there is just one code controlling both. so a single fix solves both (OOPS does have its advantages) :D :D
17:41 garycmartin Fab :)
17:42 OK, we are 10min over time so should call an end to the meeting.
17:42 ajay garycmartin: so three action-items as of now :: 1) fix the redraw-intervals   2) change strings    3) fix "stop" error.
17:42 garycmartin Any requests I should add to the agenda for next week?
17:42 tch___ preserve the current list haha
17:43 ajay tch___: :D
17:43 garycmartin #action improve batch tick redraw-intervals (ajay)
17:44 #action change status strings to normal case and remove braces and / for friendly language (ajay)
17:45 #action make Stop aleart before batch operations really stop the batch operation (ajay)
17:46 #action More testing feedback to mail-list using larger number of Journal entries (garycmartin)
17:46 Ok a quick count down...
17:46 5
17:46 tch___ 4
17:46 ajay 3
17:47 m_anish 3
17:47 2
17:47 garycmartin Ooop stuck at 2 :)
17:47 m_anish manuq.notify() :-P
17:47 manuq 1 (I was just lurking) :)
17:47 garycmartin #endmeeting
17:47 meeting_ Meeting ended Tue Aug  7 17:47:55 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
17:47 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-07T16:30:14.html
17:47 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]12-08-07T16:30:14
17:48 m_anish see, all it needed was the right api ;-)
17:48 garycmartin Hey thanks guys, good meeting, progress and all :)
17:48 m_anish yep :)
17:48 tch___ API for everybody!
17:48 ajay garycmartin:  thanks to you !!!
17:48 garycmartin tch___: APIs are great, everybody should have their own :)
17:49 ajay garycmartin: just a quick query, do you have any idea about the progress regarding the 3G-database-support patch>?
17:49 tch___ +!
17:52 garycmartin ajay: I'm happy with the UI design as far as I can tell from screen shots. I'm guessing what might be a help is if we can get some testers to try out the feature? I don't have a 3G USB modem to test here, perhaps you know some users who could give it a test and post some feedback to your thread?
17:53 ajay garycmartin: hmm.. you are right. Unfortunately, I have already pinged 3 times on the thread, without getting a response. Don't know what else may I do :-\
17:57 garycmartin ajay: yes, that's why I was thinking perhaps some feedback on your patch from one or two real 3G USB users would be of help. Maybe I can find a friend with a USB modem here to test, but probably have quite a lot on this week so likely no chance for our next design meeting.
17:57 ajay garycmartin: i will be grateful. I think you should be enough pinging him; he can test according to his comforts ..
18:00 garycmartin ajay: I don't know anyone who uses 3G with Sugar. I'll need to find 1) someone using a 3G USB stick 2) buy them a large cold beer 3) borrow their 3G stick and test it on one of my test XOs :)
18:00 m_anish :-)
18:00 ajay garycmartin: well.. I must say that would is a lot of pain (at least it would have been for me, if I were you) :D
18:01 garycmartin: someone from within sugar/olpc should get back ideally :-\
18:03 garycmartin ajay: How about OLPC Australia, maybe they use 3G a lot?
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18:04 ajay garycmartin: may be. but no reply from there too.
18:04 Cerlyn Unfortunately my 3G is the wrong type (CDMA) and Sugar still doesn't know about it
18:04 garycmartin ajay: or maybe the New Zealand tester group have some 3G USB stick users in it.
18:05 Cerlyn: Thanks, do you know of deployments that this feature was originally targeted at? I assumed it was a South America deployment, but can't remember.
18:08 Cerlyn garycmartin: I'm tempted to say Uruguay but I forget
18:09 m_anish Cerlyn, +1
18:11 garycmartin Cerlyn: Hmmm, OK. Unfortunately I don't really have any direct contacts there (that I know of).
18:12 Cerlyn if you need to know who is using 3G modems ask reubencaron
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18:17 garycmartin Cerlyn: ah good idea, thanks. ajay ^^^^. If reubencaron likes the feature enhancement he might be able to direct us towards some users who could willingly test the patch (showing there is need and interest in a patch should help encourage the feature code review process along).
18:18 has to dash
18:18 ajay garycmartin: +100. thanks a ton !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!​!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!​!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
18:23 tch___  garycmartin: it was Paraguay + Uruguay, it was a collaboration work between them. It is heavily used in both countries
18:24 m_anish, ajay: Is my 3g shared patch included in dx3?
18:25 ajay tch___: yups.
18:25 tch___ If you need feedback from Paraguay I could help, since I pretty much who did the work on 3G
18:26 garycmartin: ^
18:27 ajay: nice. Useful feature, Is it on the upstreaming stack?
18:27 m_anish tch___, yes
18:28 ajay tch___: hmm.. there hasn't been any discussion yet. But it definitely is a needed feature, and widely used (especially of AU I know).
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18:28 m_anish tch___, its in the (long) pipeline :-/ and as ajay said a very desired feature
18:29 ajay, also the enterprise network one is also a highly desired one
18:29 tch___ ajay: m_anish can tell it is also useful in Paraguay,
18:29 m_anish tch___, +1 :)
18:29 ajay tch___: hmm.. that makes it all the more desirable.
18:29 tch___ I can imagine, I remember AU's folks have to deal with very unfriendly networks setups
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