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#sugar-meeting, 2012-07-03

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15:00 manuq <manuq!~manuq@host254.190-138-109.telecom.net.ar> has joined #sugar-meeting
15:00 manuq hello
15:00 humitos <humitos!~humitos@201-213-135-73.net.prima.net.ar> has joined #sugar-meeting
15:00 humitos hello
15:01 silbe waves
15:01 gonzalo_ hello all
15:02 anybody else ready to the meeting?
15:05 hmm, this will be fast....
15:05 manuq gonzalo_: me!
15:06 humitos manuq: me
15:07 gonzalo_ manuq, humitos, silbe, want do a fast meeting? (looks like erikos in not at home, and everybody else is in a party :) )
15:07 garycmartin waves
15:07 gonzalo_ aha!
15:07 hello garycmartin :)
15:07 garycmartin (from the party)
15:07 humitos gonzalo_: yes, I don't have enough time to do a large meeting
15:08 gonzalo_: and... I don't have many thing to say as well
15:08 garycmartin gonzalo_: crunching the gifs in another window :)
15:08 gonzalo_ garycmartin, great
15:11 silbe gonzalo_: fast meeting is good, I got enough on my plate :)
15:11 gonzalo_ silbe, ok, let start
15:11 silbe I'd like to know more about the state and timelines of the GTK3 port, so having a meeting would be great, though
15:12 gonzalo_: feel free to go ahead and moderate the meeting
15:12 gonzalo_ silbe, ok
15:12 anybody have the meeting commands at hand?
15:13 anybody new in the channel?
15:13 silbe gonzalo_: #startmeeting
15:14 gonzalo_ #startmeeting
15:14 meeting Meeting started Tue Jul  3 15:14:06 2012 UTC. The chair is gonzalo_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:14 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
15:14 gonzalo_ thanks
15:14 #topic new members
15:14 if anybody is new, this is the moment to say "hello!"
15:15 ok....
15:16 #topic shell port
15:16 manuq, want tell us how is doing?
15:17 manuq gonzalo_: soo
15:18 we are delaying the patch that removes hippo
15:18 because I found a few easy to fix visual things while using collaboration, in the neighbourhood view
15:19 gonzalo_ manuq, fixes after removing hippo?
15:19 manuq gonzalo_: while removing hippo
15:20 ...and erikos will be out of action for a few weeks, so the review process would be less interesting without him
15:20 as he knows better the work being done
15:21 gonzalo_ manuq, are youworking in a branch?
15:21 dogi has quit IRC
15:21 manuq so, I'll keep working on a branch, doing the port to gtk3
15:21 gonzalo_: yes
15:21 gonzalo_ manuq, but remove hippo is previous to port to gtk3, right?
15:22 silbe manuq: it would be great if we could have a clean hippo-canvas base for the gtk3 port, not mixing hippo-removal and gtk3 port patches in a single branch
15:22 manuq gonzalo_: yes
15:22 silbe: of course
15:22 gonzalo_ silbe, +1
15:23 manuq silbe: so yes, I'll do it in a separate branch
15:24 gonzalo_ manuq, i would like to test and collaborate when I finish with Paint work (I hope this week)
15:24 manuq gonzalo_: ok!
15:24 silbe manuq: BTW, what would you currently expect a) when you're going to start posting hippo-removal patches, b) when you're going to start posting GTK3 port patches, c) when you might be done with most of the GTK3 port? I don't need fixed dates, just a rough estimation so I can base my own schedules on it.
15:24 manuq: great, thanks!
15:26 gonzalo_ silbe, the propoosal to replace the CanvasIcon is already reviewed?
15:26 manuq silbe: so, I expect 3 weeks from now to post the hippo-removal patches (when eriko's back)
15:27 I also expect most of the work for the GTK3 port is done at that time
15:27 silbe gonzalo_: no, that's still on my list.
15:27 manuq and if there are changes after the review of the hippo-removal, I can rebase my work
15:28 gonzalo_ silbe, this change is important to have it decided
15:28 silbe ok, so we'd review it all in one large batch it seems
15:28 humitos silbe: I'm working a lot on porting activities to gtk3
15:29 gonzalo_ silbe, are you in touch with the people in ac porting the activities?
15:29 silbe gonzalo_: who has carefully evaluated that change inside OLPC?
15:29 gonzalo_ silbe, erikos was doing that
15:29 silbe gonzalo_: right now not more than you are
15:30 gonzalo_: anybody else? dsd? Has benzea looked at it?
15:31 Cerlyn <Cerlyn!~ALEIN@99-94-166-254.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net> has joined #sugar-meeting
15:33 gonzalo_ silbe, i don't know, manuq do you know?
15:33 manuq we could ask benzea, he has been looking at sugar patches lately
15:34 gonzalo_ ther are info here http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]ell/Hippo_Removal
15:35 silbe gonzalo_: I don't have any objections on the approach myself, but I'm not a GTK guru. It would be nice to get some feedback from someone who knows the GTK pitfalls well to be sure we're not following an approach where we'll need to expect further trouble down the road.
15:35 dnarvaez manuq: on which branch/repo are you doing the gtk3 port?
15:36 gonzalo_ silbe, ok, we can try ping benzea to have more feedback
15:36 silbe i.e. if someone experienced with designing custom GTK widgets (which this is) can't think of any problem we might run into, it's good enough for me
15:36 we don't need that person to be sure that we will _not_ run into trouble later
15:36 dnarvaez I had a look and the general approach seems fine to me
15:36 (didn't review in detail)
15:37 manuq dnarvaez: it wasn't started
15:37 silbe dnarvaez: how much experience designing custom GTK widgets do you have?
15:38 dnarvaez silbe maybe not as much as benzea but I have some :)
15:39 silbe dnarvaez: ok, that's a good start. Let's try to have benzea take a look, but if he's not going to have time to do that anytime soon, we'll merge it anyway.
15:39 benzea huh?
15:39 silbe I'm only trying to reduce the amount of extra work we have to do if/when we realise we need to take a different approach
15:40 benzea: ah, there you are. It would be great if you could take a look at https://patchwork.sugarlabs.org/patch/1547/ and tell us what you think about the approach it takes.
15:40 benzea looks
15:40 dnarvaez manuq: oh ok, maybe post it when you start :)
15:40 benzea juts opened his irc window
15:41 manuq silbe: the port of the CanvasIcon was done in Brno hackfest, by Walter Bender, Daniel Drake and Raul Gutierrez Segales, and many gnome devs were around
15:41 benzea ah, yes, I wanted to look at it on sunday, and then evolution was missing the mail in the cache (and I was offline) :-/
15:41 silbe benzea: feel free to take your time with it, you can just reply to the email.
15:42 manuq: ah, that's good to know indeed.
15:42 manuq silbe: yeah, is in the commit message
15:42 silbe manuq: it mentions previous authors, but not the hackfest and the presence of gnome devs.
15:43 manuq silbe: right
15:44 silbe ok, I'd suggest to get on with the meeting. We can handle the patch on sugar-devel, no need to do it right now.
15:44 gonzalo_ silbe, yeah
15:44 benzea yeah
15:45 gonzalo_ benzea, thanks, it's important have it defined to continue with other tasks
15:45 ok, anything else about sugar-port?
15:45 silbe +1, thanks to benzea for reviewing this patch
15:45 gonzalo_ volunteers? :)
15:47 ok, can we continue?
15:47 3
15:47 2
15:47 1
15:47 manuq 1
15:47 :)
15:47 gonzalo_ #topic port of activities
15:48 manuq has seen a lot of progress!
15:48 gonzalo_ yeah, a lot of progress, updated state is here http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Acti[…]ies/PortingToGtk3
15:49 silbe 0
15:49 gonzalo_ sadly dirakx is not here
15:49 manuq aguz send a patch for review, ImageViewer port
15:50 who is the maintainer?
15:50 benzea outch, just thinking about measure
15:51 gonzalo_ manuq, i think aleksey maintain ImageViewer
15:51 benzea there will be a huge performance hit there, I expect; unless maybe a custom C module is written currently
15:51 manuq gonzalo_: ok, I think I can review it
15:51 aguz said was a present for my birthday :)
15:51 gonzalo_ benzea, due to signal display or gstreamer?
15:52 dnarvaez benzea: where would the hit be?
15:52 gonzalo_ manuq, :)
15:52 manuq benzea: can you provide details? :)
15:52 benzea gonzalo_, dnarvaez: display, I did quite some stuff there to get it fast
15:52 it uses gdk_draw_lines so that it does not need a loop in python for drawing
15:52 dnarvaez oh I thought you was talking about the shell port :)
15:53 benzea nah, just the measure activity
15:53 manuq dnarvaez: Measure Activity :)
15:53 gonzalo_ benzea, and lines in cairo should be slower?
15:54 benzea gonzalo_: well, for one drawing the lines with cairo is likely slower, the second thing is that we need a python loop
15:54 ie. call cr.line_to()
15:54 gonzalo_ yeah
15:54 benzea well, I wanted to play with that anyways for some time now ;-)
15:54 gonzalo_ benzea, great :)
15:55 i am porting Paint to cairo, and wondering how will resolve the bucket functionality....
15:55 benzea what is it using currnetly?
15:55 gonzalo_ c code
15:56 benzea hm, keep it?
15:56 manuq gonzalo_: with a python implementation fallback, right?
15:56 gonzalo_ manuq, yes
15:56 manuq gonzalo_: yes, why can't be kept?
15:56 gonzalo_ benzea, but now is using a pixmap to work
15:56 benzea gonzalo_: cairo does not provide such image manipulations routines, you need to use an ImageSurface and access its data (don't forget to call flush/mark_dirty)
15:57 gonzalo_: uh, pixbuf you mean?
15:57 gonzalo_ benzea, no, pixmap
15:57 benzea a server side pixmap? how do you do a bucket fill with that?
15:58 gonzalo_ benzea, Paint use pixmaps as canvas to all the operations
15:58 benzea for me a pixmap is a GdkPixmap, and the data is located on the X server, no direct access for the application; don't a fill there sounds rather inefficient
15:59 gonzalo_ benzea, really use GdxPixmap.get_image and process that
16:00 benzea oh
16:01 gonzalo_ benzea, but I think is because all the operations are done in this canvas pixmap (actually two pixmaps)
16:01 benzea I would probably have done a gtk.gdk.Pixbuf.get_from_drawable to not require roundtrips to the X server
16:01 and then upload it after the opation
16:01 gonzalo_ benzea, ok, i will try this
16:01 manuq benzea:  interesting
16:02 benzea gonzalo_: with cairo, create an image surface of the same size, and render the remote surface into it (using OPERATOR_SOURCE)
16:02 gonzalo_ benzea, what is the remote surface in this case?
16:03 benzea gonzalo_: the drawable
16:03 gonzalo_ ahh, ok
16:04 benzea if you want to keep using a Pixmap that is
16:05 ok, enough discussion about Paint?
16:06 thinks that any more discussions should probably be done outside of the meeting
16:06 manuq ok, anything else?
16:06 gonzalo_ benzea, Pixmap are deprecated in gtk3 http://developer.gnome.org/gtk[…]02.html#id1401440
16:06 manuq anyone want to raise issues on the gtk3 port of activities?
16:07 igod has quit IRC
16:07 benzea gonzalo_: yeah, but doing eg. a cairo.create_similar_surface() on the window is the same as a pixmap
16:07 gonzalo_ benzea, ok, but is a surface
16:07 benzea gonzalo_: just a different wrapper for the same thing :-)
16:08 gonzalo_ i am removing the use of GdkPixmaps to port to gtk3 later
16:08 and yes, i am using cairo surfaces to replace the pixmaps :)
16:09 ok, dnarvaez are you here?
16:09 dnarvaez yes
16:09 gonzalo_ i have a question but is not about porting activities
16:09 you are trying to start activities in your bot to test they are working, right?
16:10 dnarvaez, ^
16:10 dnarvaez gonzalo_: right, I'm using dogtail to start them and then close, one by one
16:10 gonzalo_ dnarvaez, starting from listview?
16:10 dnarvaez yes
16:10 gonzalo_ wow :)
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16:11 dnarvaez :)
16:11 manuq dnarvaez: they can be also started using a command
16:11 gonzalo_ i read your mail about problems and I was wondering if you can use sugar-activity to start them
16:12 dnarvaez, but i don't know id is useful for your tests
16:12 dnarvaez I could use the script but then I would still need a way to make sure it started properly and close it. More in general I;m trying to get dogtail to work because I think we can use it to do more advanced ui testing
16:13 manuq dnarvaez: that would be very nice
16:13 dnarvaez it would be nice if the activities itself would include ui testing scripts
16:13 gonzalo_ dnarvaez, yeah, or have a repo with the tests
16:13 danielf_ has quit IRC
16:14 Cerlyn dnarvaez: Is there any particular reason you chose dogtail?
16:14 gonzalo_ dnarvaez, when you have this working send a mail to sugar-devel
16:14 dnarvaez gonzalo_: will do :)
16:15 gonzalo_ dnarvaez, thanks by working on that
16:16 dnarvaez Cerlyn: not quite, it was easy to get to work on fedora. I don't care much about dogtail, more about the accessibility approach. dogtail is really just very simple convenience on the top of pyatspi
16:17 gonzalo_ dnarvaez, can you access the toolbar controls with dogtail and identify the widgets?
16:17 dnarvaez gonzalo_: yes, my script uses the stop button on the toolbar
16:18 http://buildbot.sugarlabs.org/[…]hell_3/logs/stdio
16:18 gonzalo_ dnarvaez, great, open many posibilities
16:18 dnarvaez gonzalo_: you can see what the tree looks like here ^
16:19 that's list view
16:20 gonzalo_ dnarvaez, crazy stuff :)
16:20 but interesting
16:20 Cerlyn dogtail also can be hooked into the i18n files
16:21 gonzalo_ Cerlyn, ?
16:21 Cerlyn So it can know "Browse" and "Navagar" are the same if you set LANG
16:22 the restriction on what it sees being it has to get back to AT-SPI somehow, so hippocanvas items are not as easily automatable
16:22 gonzalo_ Cerlyn, but hippo is going away
16:23 ok, we promissed keep this meeting short :)
16:23 anybody have anything more to share/ask?
16:27 benzea doesn't look like it
16:27 gonzalo_ ok :)
16:27 5
16:27 .....
16:27 4
16:28 3
16:28 benzea 2
16:28 gonzalo_ 1
16:28 manuq 1
16:28 gonzalo_ #endmeeting
16:28 meeting Meeting ended Tue Jul  3 16:28:45 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
16:28 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-03T15:14:06.html
16:28 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]12-07-03T15:14:06
16:31 benzea wonders a bit how many FPS one can reach in measure when using cairo ... (the current code is so fast, it kills the X server without throtteling)
16:32 dnarvaez has quit IRC
16:32 benzea (yes, I had some fun optimizing measure ...)
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18:18 garycmartin gonzalo_: ping, just uploaded a zip of the Welcome images to #11816
18:21 gonzalo_: I'll add a comment with all the changes but have to dash just now, main things fixed were compression, jumping alignements, different colours between frames, incorrect toolbars, button highlights, and a couple of frame swaps to help start of chapters, and one unnecessary image drop in last chapter.
18:32 gonzalo_ garycmartin, thanks, please add the comment when you can
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