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#sugar-meeting, 2012-06-26

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14:53 erikos #startmeeting
14:53 meeting Meeting started Tue Jun 26 14:53:18 2012 UTC. The chair is erikos. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:53 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
14:57 gonzalo_ hello erikos
14:58 garycmartin waves
14:58 erikos gonzalo_: hey!
14:58 walterbender waves too
14:58 erikos hey garycmartin
14:58 oh, and even Amazonas-Walter joins us today!
14:58 caspar hi
14:58 erikos hopes it was a nice and successful trip
14:58 hi caspar
14:59 is happy that even with short-notice-reminder there are so many attendees already
15:00 silbe waves
15:00 bernie lurking
15:00 erikos hi silbe
15:00 even the lurker-seats are filling up today, hi bernie
15:00 silbe didn't even see the reminder. It's just the same procedure as every week. :)
15:00 manuq <manuq!~manuq@201-213-135-73.net.prima.net.ar> has joined #sugar-meeting
15:01 manuq waves
15:01 erikos silbe: yeah, I try to send the reminder neverless
15:01 hey manuq
15:01 manuq: humitos will be with us as well, I presume?
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15:02 benzea (ok, will leave again in a minute ...)
15:02 erikos hi danielf_ and benzea
15:03 let's start then!
15:03 #topic Introducing new contributors
15:03 I know we can not get three new contributors every week, but neverless, anyone new to the show?
15:04 Cerlyn <Cerlyn!~cerlyn@173-12-75-9-miami.hfc.comcastbusiness.net> has joined #sugar-meeting
15:04 silbe erikos: certainly a good idea
15:04 (reminders)
15:04 humitos <humitos!~humitos@201-213-135-73.net.prima.net.ar> has joined #sugar-meeting
15:04 erikos anyone here in the meeting that is new to the development team?
15:04 humitos hello
15:04 erikos hi humitos
15:05 silbe humitos: welcome to the show!
15:05 erikos great! next week again :)
15:05 #topic Update list of action items
15:06 looks for the current list
15:06 we should maybe keep them on the wiki
15:07 manuq good idea
15:07 gonzalo_ erikos, i need somebody to look at soas in a vm as devel env, my hardware does not support kvm :(
15:08 erikos, something has changed in f17
15:08 i have used this same hardware to do virtualization before
15:09 erikos    manuq to test pippy and terminal and make sure it appears in 12.1.0
15:09    erikos to follow up on #3605
15:10 ok, 3605 stays open, it looks like
15:10 manuq: pippy and terminal is all fine, right?
15:10 manuq erikos: so, pippy translation issues are still there :/
15:10 erikos we do not have other action items
15:10 manuq the ticket was closed, after a long discussion
15:11 erikos manuq: ok, what is the status there? what is the plan?
15:11 manuq: ok
15:11 manuq #3698 is the ticket
15:11 dirakx: around?
15:12 humitos just to let you know... I'm working on Get Books - Searching books from a Pen Drive
15:14 manuq cjl: anything you want to say about #3698 that is not in the ticket? about the resolution=fixed?
15:16 seems like translations effort is needed, or manually (or automatically) removing the '_' character from the po files
15:16 erikos gonzalo_: ok, and it is true that there are always a few people that do that
15:16 gonzalo_: anyone here that is using F17 or soas in a vm?
15:16 sorry
15:16 anyone here that is using F17 or soas in a vm?
15:17 danielf_ has quit IRC
15:17 manuq seems like pippy translation issue will not be ready for 12.1.0 :/
15:17 walterbender erikos: I run it in Virtual Box
15:17 erikos manuq: yeah, ok - let's just make sure we fix it later
15:17 walterbender erikos: on an F16 box
15:17 manuq erikos: yes, ok
15:17 garycmartin erikos: Yea I have F17 in Virtual Box here on my Mac.
15:17 erikos manuq: but a decision has been made, so let's move on
15:17 manuq ok
15:17 erikos walterbender: ok
15:18 garycmartin: ok, great - and is working fine?
15:18 cjl reads scroll back
15:18 gonzalo_ walterbender, can you install SoaS in a vm and see if we can propose it as a  environment for new developers?
15:19 walterbender, i don't know if the persistence can be enabled in a vm
15:19 garycmartin I only use it intermittently, but it's where I was testing the various OSK options and the new one from Gnome, seemed OK but I don't live in there much.
15:19 erikos garycmartin: ok
15:20 is happy Gary is not living in a vm ;p
15:20 garycmartin ;)
15:20 humitos erikos: I think that I can test SOAS in a vm with kvm...
15:20 at least it was working on my Debian (and I have it already installed)
15:20 erikos humitos: ok, that is great
15:21 humitos erikos: assign me that task if you want
15:21 erikos humitos: I will re-assign you the action item then
15:21 humitos (give any ticket related and so)
15:21 cjl only has the comment on #3698 that it is superceeded by design ticket #3706, okay to close #3698 by me.
15:21 humitos I mean, explain me what I have to do and test
15:22 walterbender gonzalo_: I used to have persistence enabled, but haven't gotten it to work for my F17 image (haven't tried very hard)
15:22 erikos #ACTION humitos, testing if soas (F17) in a vm is something to recommend to developers as a development environment
15:22 cjl agrees tash Pippy transltion issue will no tbe ready for 12.1.0
15:22 erikos humitos: that is the description ^
15:22 humitos erikos: ok
15:22 erikos humitos: gonzalo_ can fill you in with his reserach
15:23 gonzalo_ thanks humitos!
15:23 erikos great, so all current items handled
15:23 next topic!
15:23 #topic shell port status update
15:23 satellit_ I will try to test this also think a USB written with liveinst or tools scripts will work
15:24 gonzalo_ satellit, great
15:24 erikos satellit_: thanks
15:25 we have a branch up for that: http://git.sugarlabs.org/~erik[…]erikos-shell-port
15:25 satellit look at testing: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki[…]Install#USB_Stick
15:25 erikos and http://git.sugarlabs.org/~erik[…]erikos-shell-port
15:26 with the CanvasIcon patch that has been posted to the list already
15:26 so the hippo removal stuff is quite finished
15:26 Manu, Daniel and myself have been splitting up the tasks there
15:27 manuq Daniel == dnarvaez
15:27 erikos we can pretty up the commits then
15:27 garycmartin ooooh, no more hippo, well done!
15:27 erikos manuq: yes, thanks ;p
15:27 maybe move it all into one, not 100% sure what is better thre
15:27 there
15:27 and then run the script
15:28 we have to fix https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=644926 for the container port
15:28 silbe erikos: wow, that was fast.
15:28 erikos hopefully that is done in a bit as well
15:29 silbe: quite a few work has been gone into that from Walter Daniel and Raul
15:29 cjl Who killed the last bit of hippo?  I have a smallish gift for them
15:29 erikos silbe: for the last hackfest
15:29 walterbender a tip of the hat from rgs and me too!
15:29 silbe A big thanks to everyone involved!
15:30 erikos on the shoulder of giants or something like that ;p
15:30 manuq yes!
15:30 erikos any questions, coments?
15:31 gonzalo_ erikos, do you need testing/reviews?
15:31 erikos gonzalo_: yes, both ;p
15:31 gonzalo_ erikos, i know you will be on vacation, manuq will continue?
15:31 erikos gonzalo_: so you can run the branches already, they do start
15:31 silbe erikos: on what branch is your branch based? If I try to compare it against mainline master, it lists many commits that should be in mainline master already.
15:32 walterbender gonzalo_: I suppose I should finally remove the last traces of hippo from Infoslicer :P
15:32 gonzalo_ walterbender, ;)
15:32 erikos silbe: hmm, it is based on master
15:32 silbe: branched a few days ago
15:33 gonzalo_ silbe, will you review the patches?
15:33 silbe erikos: strange. "git log upstream/master..erikos-shell-port/master" is listing many Pootle commits, "Release 0.96.2" and the likes. (I did "git fetch --all"; upstream=mainline)
15:34 gonzalo_: Caspar and I will do so, yes.
15:34 gonzalo_: Reviews from anyone else are also encouraged as usual.
15:35 erikos silbe: no idea
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15:35 erikos yeah, we already review each others stuff while going
15:35 so this stuff has probably seen more reviews than many other parts
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15:36 erikos so, my hope is that we can land those actually in the next days
15:36 silbe erikos: in mainline master, the 0.96.2 commit is 11d3207f5101ec88b707931749818802552e76ba. In your branch, it is f05bcf0a4ebd0741959c046222d2d89dcc30d8d2.
15:37 erikos: but let's figure that out after the meeting.
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15:38 erikos silbe: does not matter really, as we will have to either regroup the commits anyhow or put them into one big one
15:39 silbe erikos: ok, waiting for your new patch set then. Please don't do a single commit, that's not reviewable.
15:39 erikos silbe: ok, we will have to live then with the fact that sugar won't run after every commit
15:39 silbe: which is fine with me
15:40 silbe erikos: ??
15:40 erikos silbe: all that work is interlinked
15:40 silbe erikos: you're only removing hippo-canvas, right? not doing the GTK3 conversion?
15:41 erikos: so why would Sugar not work anymore after a single functional change?
15:41 erikos silbe: no, but the work needs the toolkit-gtk2 branch
15:41 silbe: and that I don't think we want to land
15:42 silbe: as the toolkit is deprecated
15:42 silbe erikos: each sugar commit needing a different commit in sugar-toolkit would be fine with me. That's a price we pay for having them in separate repositories.
15:42 erikos silbe: there is only one commit in the toolkit
15:42 silbe: but I don't want to push it
15:43 silbe: the hippo removal is an intermediate step in the shell
15:43 walterbender humitos: will you review an infoslicer patch for me?
15:43 gonzalo_: I don't think any of the hippo code was actually used anywhere :P
15:43 humitos walterbender: I have no problem... do you have the patch? is attached on some ticket?
15:44 silbe erikos: However, Sugar not working at all anymore after a commit is quite a major impact. For one thing, you can't track failures down using "git bisect" anymore.
15:44 walterbender humitos: will send in a few minutes
15:44 humitos walterbender: I don't have the same eyes than you, but I can use mines :)
15:44 walterbender: ok
15:45 silbe erikos: I'm fine with adding additional code to sugar-toolkit (GTK2) required by the hippo-canvas removal, if it enables us to have Sugar not break between commits.
15:46 erikos: we cannot change API, but adding a new class as an alternative to another, hippo-canvas using class is fine.
15:46 gonzalo_ erikos, then we will not have a gtk2 sugar working without hippo?
15:47 erikos, looks like a good thing to have....
15:48 erikos silbe: ok, you would want to add the EventIcon
15:48 silbe: and only to master I presume
15:48 Cerlyn <Cerlyn!~cerlyn@173-12-75-12-miami.hfc.comcastbusiness.net> has joined #sugar-meeting
15:48 erikos silbe: and never release it
15:48 silbe erikos: master would suffice, yep.
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15:49 gonzalo_ erikos, +1
15:50 silbe gonzalo_: +1, a GTK2 version without hippo-canvas would enable us to implement UI tests. We could then develop them on GTK2 and compare with (i.e. run the test suite against) the GTK3 version.
15:50 walterbender humitos: #3734 when you get a chance...
15:50 gonzalo_ silbe, yes, and test before the big gtk3 change
15:51 silbe gonzalo_: exactly, before and after, to make sure everything (well, at least as much as we test) still works.
15:52 gonzalo_ yeah, i think we should not be too religious about not adding code to gtk2 sugar-toolkit
15:52 erikos so you want to release it as well, right?
15:53 silbe erikos: a development version would suffice, but I wouldn't be opposed to a release either.
15:54 erikos silbe: I want people to port their activities, that is why I don't want to have new releases of a deprecated module
15:54 silbe especially since we're talking purely about additional code (in sugar-toolkit) here.
15:54 erikos silbe: unless bug fixes
15:55 cjl Thanks to erikos, we have a glu96 branch and a master branch of sugar-toolkit.  experimentation about backporting features on master is okay as the glu96 branch is frozen
15:55 silbe erikos: I don't see how releasing a version of sugar-toolkit with a hippo-canvas replacement would hinder the Activity ports. Quite the contrary, if necessary they could do the same intermediate step as sugar.
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15:56 erikos gonzalo_: do activities use the CanvasIcon?
15:56 gonzalo_ erikos, checking
15:58 erikos, just Calculate and is commented (I think silbe requested remove it , right? )
15:58 erikos gonzalo_: ok
15:58 silbe gonzalo_: +1
15:59 erikos so activities do not need the change in the toolkit
15:59 garycmartin gonzalo_: yep, that comment will get removed in next Calculate release
15:59 gonzalo_ erikos, anyway, as silbe said, having the class to replace it should do easier the port
15:59 silbe erikos: even better than. The change has no effect whatsoever on Activities in that case. :)
15:59 erikos but pushing to master is ok with me
15:59 silbe *then
15:59 gonzalo_ good garycmartin :)
16:00 silbe erikos: great!
16:00 cjl does not want to see string changes in glu96 branches
16:00 gonzalo_ cjl, don't worry, no string changes here
16:00 cjl :-)
16:01 silbe cjl: no problem, we'll sprinkle in a few just for you ;)
16:01 erikos silbe: or, we could add it temporary in sugar itself
16:01 cjl AFAICT master sugar-toolkit should not currently be in use by any build system, etc. so it is clear as a testing ground for backports
16:02 silbe erikos: would be fine with me, too. Maybe even better, as nothing else needs it and we wouldn't depend on a specific version of sugar-toolkit. Not perfect from a purity PoV, but reasonable engineering. Good idea.
16:02 cjl: sugar-jhbuild always uses master. But that's a feature, not a bug. :)
16:03 cjl silbe as long as it is not a mis-feature tha twill trip anyone up.
16:04 silbe cjl: sugar-jhbuild is for developers working on master, so it's working as expected.
16:04 cjl silbe I'm good wit hit
16:04 erikos silbe: the only thing is that I need to either nearly copy all of the icon class or access private members like _IconBuffer
16:05 silbe erikos: copying over the entire class makes sense. don't hot-patch it in sugar.
16:05 erikos ok, so let's do this then
16:06 silbe It's an intentional code copy for a transitional period. No problem with that.
16:07 erikos looks like we have a plan there
16:07 silbe erikos: +1
16:08 gonzalo_ landing the hippo-less sugar will be a historic day :)
16:08 erikos silbe: caspar do you guys have review time this week?
16:09 I hope we get it ready tomorrow
16:09 would be great to finish this working week with that landed
16:09 manuq yup :)
16:09 silbe erikos: I'll see what I can do, but it's unlikely as I already have other, long planned (and not changeable from my side) committments this weekend.
16:10 cjl This may sound like a stupid question, but am I correct in assuming tha sugar-toolkit master will be come a testing module for de-hippofication of GTK2 activities prior to their GTK3 porting?
16:10 silbe *commitments
16:10 erikos cjl: no, sugar-toolkit master will stay untouched
16:10 silbe cjl: no, the latest plan is not to change sugar-toolkit at all.
16:10 cjl ok
16:11 silbe cjl: instead we'll copy some of the code to sugar and change it there.
16:11 cjl ok
16:11 erikos silbe: ok, don't want to bypass you but if I get other reviews+testing would you be ok with pushing?
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16:12 erikos silbe: or, can you have a look at the general layout of the replacement, if you agree with the approach?
16:12 silbe erikos: I'd prefer to take a look myself.
16:13 erikos: as mentioned, I'll do my best to make time for this this week, but I don't even have the patches yet.
16:13 erikos silbe: I meant you can have a look at the repo
16:13 silbe: the approach is what counts most I think
16:13 silbe erikos: TBH, I don't see the need to rush this major change.
16:14 erikos: certainly. But right now all I can see is the single SugarEventIcon patch. If there's anything else, it's hidden in the duplicated commits.
16:15 the duplicated commits go right back to the root commit. Not sure what's going on with your repo.
16:17 I also checked mainline master against my local branches to make sure it's not mainline master that is broken.
16:18 erikos I used the clone functionality, not sure where it went broken
16:18 but you can always do a git diff in the repo itself
16:18 so the code is there ;p
16:19 silbe haha
16:19 erikos anyhow, it is not a rush as many people have been working on that for a while
16:19 silbe erikos: well, I'm confident you'll sort it out and send the patches to sugar-devel. :)
16:20 erikos: but not in public AFAICT
16:20 erikos: I'd prefer all Sugar changes to happen in public.
16:22 gonzalo_ clearly we need more people to maintain sugar
16:22 erikos silbe: ok, if you have 5 minutes now, have a look at the approach and let us know
16:23 silbe: the sooner we have feedback the better
16:23 gonzalo_ is a big piece of code and is not possible be blocked by one maintainer :(
16:23 manuq gonzalo_: hello! I'm manuq, new sugar-artwork maintainer :)
16:23 erikos manuq: :)
16:23 silbe erikos: I still don't see any of the changes except for SugarEventIcon which is a rather small part of it
16:23 gonzalo_ manuq, congrats! (but i am talking about sugar module)
16:24 erikos silbe: in http://git.sugarlabs.org/~erik[…]erikos-shell-port ?
16:24 silbe erikos: once you have something I can actually look it, we can talk again.
16:24 erikos: yes
16:24 cjl gonzalo_: It would be wonderful of folks going to GUADEC kept any eye put for recruiting devs.  We should give them a beer stipend as a recruiting budget :-0
16:24 erikos silbe: did you clone the repo?
16:24 silbe erikos: yep: git remote add erikos-shell-port  git://git.sugarlabs.org/~erikos/​sugar-toolkit/erikos-shell-port
16:25 d'oh
16:25 no wonder it's not working
16:25 how did I mix that up? must have copied from the wrong line in the meeting logs.
16:25 sorry!
16:26 erikos silbe: ok, and you see the changes now?
16:27 silbe erikos: yeah, much better once you use the right repo :)
16:27 erikos silbe: excellent
16:28 silbe: there is as well http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]ell/Hippo_Removal with some more background info
16:28 silbe erikos: like with sugar-toolkit-gtk3, the patches should be grouped functionally (with matching patch descriptions), rather than historically ("initial port", "fix this", "fix that"). But I can at least take a look at the code now.
16:29 erikos gonzalo_: yeah, lucky we have manu now on board, in the few days he is on he helped me already a lot
16:29 silbe: right, the descriptions will change
16:29 silbe: this is a working dir
16:29 silbe: what counts for now, is the code feedback
16:29 silbe erikos: Looking forward to the patches you propose for inclusion.
16:30 erikos silbe: sure
16:30 ok
16:30 goes back to fixing the remaining parts
16:30 3
16:30 any more questions?
16:30 silbe erikos: I'll try to squeeze in the code review whenever I can, but as mentioned I'm rather booked out this weekend.
16:30 pflores I have a quick topic
16:30 Hi guys BTW :)
16:31 gonzalo_ hi pflores !
16:31 erikos pflores: yes, please
16:31 pflores A couple of weeks agos it was raised the idea of making a design meeting
16:31 Did it get scheduled?
16:31 erikos no, I don't think it has been scheduled
16:32 cjl Who usually schedules those?
16:32 gonzalo_ garycmartin and manuq are the design heads.... ^
16:32 pflores Ok, it would be important for us scheduling one
16:32 cjl I agree, there are some interesting things to discuss
16:33 garycmartin pflores: No, not scheduled yet...
16:33 pflores as we have many dextrose features which require design discussions to go upstream for 0.98, as we'd like to
16:33 garycmartin pflores: I want to wait until 12.1 is released.
16:33 pflores garycmartin, manuq, how should we proceed for scheduling it
16:33 >
16:34 ?
16:34 manuq yeah, after the release sounds good
16:34 pflores garycmartin which will be...?
16:34 silbe garycmartin: that would be in about two weeks, right?
16:34 cjl garycmartin: I have to admit that delaying until 12.1.0 release sounds perfectly reasonable
16:34 gonzalo_ july 9?
16:34 garycmartin pflores: Either I or manuq will propose a time to the sugar dev list, and we tweak from there.
16:35 cjl Actionitem?
16:35 manuq yes July 9 is the deadline
16:35 garycmartin silbe: Yea 9th I think.
16:35 pflores garycmartin Ok, so it should be in a couple of weeks from now?
16:36 garycmartin pflores: yea.
16:36 silbe garycmartin: no problem then. Two weeks more or less don't matter as long as we get started some time and keep going.
16:36 pflores garycmartin Ok! That's good for us to get organized
16:36 garycmartin pflores: I just have too much else on the go I don't want to start discussing new designs until 12.1 is out of my head ;)
16:37 pflores garycmartin +1! :)
16:37 cjl #ACTION garycmartin and manuq to schedule design meeting via sugar-devel list to occur post 12.1.0 release (Jul 9)
16:39 pflores to propose agenda items related to upstreaming Dx work
16:39 pflores cjl m_anish will do it :)
16:39 cjl pflores: sure
16:40 pflores to poke m_anish to propose agend items :-)
16:40 pflores XD
16:42 cjl I'd love to hear a little on #3706 at that meeting, if there is time and info to report from garycmartin's explorations.
16:42 manuq # ACTION manuq lunch :P
16:42 cjl implications of OSK
16:42 silbe ok, looks like we're done. Or would anyone else like to discuss something?
16:42 erikos 3
16:42 manuq 2
16:43 garycmartin 1
16:43 erikos #ACTION garycmartin and manuq to schedule design meeting via sugar-devel list to occur post 12.1.0 release (Jul 9)
16:43 #endmeeting
16:43 meeting Meeting ended Tue Jun 26 16:43:22 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
16:43 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-26T14:53:18.html
16:43 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]12-06-26T14:53:18
16:44 pflores garycmartin have just a minute?
16:44 erikos has left #sugar-meeting
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16:44 garycmartin pflores: a whole minute? Sure ;)
16:44 pflores :)
16:45 A question abouth the HIG for touch
16:45 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/D[…]ivity_Touch_Input
16:45 There are no actions to take on TamTam
16:46 Is it that you didn't analyze it or that actually there's nothing specific to be done?
16:46 garycmartin:  ^^
16:46 garycmartin pflores: Ah yes. TamTam… There are many actions. The TamTam suit is a monster of a suite...
16:47 pflores garycmartin yes... just porting to gtk3 seems to be a monster
16:47 garycmartin garycmartin: I didn't want to stall other necessary work getting hung up on TamTam at the time. I will try to see if I can get some core feedback in there.
16:47 cjl We should poke Flipo on #sugar about TamTam and see if we can interest him in taking another look at it in a touch context.
16:47 pflores Flipo?
16:48 cjl tamTam author
16:48 pflores cjl: ok... that's a doubt I had
16:48 cjl I'll pass yopu his e-mail contact and some other info about him if you would like.
16:48 garycmartin pflores: And we have plans for a multitouch piano keyboard… This has to be a really polished example!
16:48 pflores cjl sounds good
16:48 cjl He is not really maintaining it, but maybe touch UI would get him interested
16:49 pflores: will do
16:49 He's a nice guy, bu ttamtam was a long time ago for him :-(
16:49 pflores garycmartin mlanghoff told me about it... I find all the work in TamTam too much undefined
16:50 to have any idea of the work it may take...
16:50 cjl I think Barry Vercoe is CSound author isn't he?  He is another person whose input might be valuable.
16:51 pflores cjl the most valuable would be the person that developed most of the cairo stuff in TamTam
16:51 walterbender cjl: the UI is pretty independent of the csound stuff in TamTam
16:51 cjl Walter knows him well and I have been working with him ot get Maori L10n online.  he might have good thoughts (design wise).
16:51 walterbender 30+ years :P
16:52 garycmartin pflores: Short term, I'll at least add dome design items to the Activity_Touch_Input wiki page for TamTam. The multitouch work will require some low level work currently in NDA territory, and a little way off still.
16:52 cjl walterbender: Yes, I was thinkihng higher level design ideas from barry, code insight from Flipo
16:52 walterbender cjl: Barry would want a complete overhaul of the csound parts... we've talked about it before
16:52 pflores garycmartin ok, sounds good!
16:53 cjl walterbender: Flipo mentioned a vague interest in dropping Csound and replacing with pyo.  But no tthe time t odo it :-(
16:54 walterbender cjl: csound is not very much exploited in tamtam...
16:54 cjl TamTam - tar-baby ?
16:55 walterbender: I guess many other impt activities have had significant upgrades, I wonder if it isn'yt time for a tamTam review (if outside people can be dragged in to do a lot of it.)
16:56 Just a thought, I'm not tasking devs with existing tasks, for sure
16:56 walterbender cjl: might be worth rethinking the whole package for a rewrite...
16:57 cjl I don't know a lot about it, but pyo looked interesting (and it is Python)
16:57 garycmartin cjl: Yea it's a dev hours issue. TamTam could do with a lot of work, those hours would just come from other parts of Sugar so need to be sure we are working on the items that most matter.
16:57 cjl Don't the CSound .so files cause issues sometimes?
16:58 garycmartin: +1 My point about dragging in others.
16:58 walterbender cjl: good project for a newbie to Sugar to tackle, perhaps.
16:59 garycmartin pyo is new to me too, will try and have a play.
16:59 cjl TamTam came from outsiede in the first place, so let's try to "get the band back together" t olook at it again being my initial thought.
16:59 walterbender cjl: the team that did it was/is pretty dedicated to csound
17:00 cjl Yeah, I get there are potential conflicts with the notion of droppintg thei rbaby for pyo.
17:01 But getting them to enhance it for touch UI could probably be sold to them, they'll want it elsewhere
17:01 I'm jsut spitballing ideas
17:02 walterbender: BTW, could we put similar TRANS comments in Measure instrument names like we did for TamTam?  I have no idea what a chavarango is :-)
17:02 garycmartin cjl: elsewhere? TamTam is Sugar only. Used to be one big monster activity until someone took the wise step of slicing it up into stepping stones, though the code really suffers with duplicates etc.
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17:03 walterbender cjl: will add some more TRANS messages....
17:04 cjl walterbender: Thanks
17:04 garycmartin cjl: I looked at adding external USB midi input (csounds supports this quite easily) but the patch size started to look horrendous due to the current architecture so I gave up and moved on to other tasks.
17:05 cjl garycmartin: I was thinking of the touch UI for CSound, but I guess you are right the tamTam is the UI layer over Csound.  Like I said, jsu8t spitballing ways to suck other people into working on it.
17:05 garycmartin cjl: :P
17:05 cjl menas that in the nicest possible way
17:06 remembers he is on a logged cahnnel :-)
17:07 walterbender cjl: pushed
17:07 cjl What I meant to say is tha this is an interest program that serves as a fine example of CSound capabilities and it might be possible to attract interest from additional development resources by  reaching out to people who have an interest in that.
17:08 Ther eis little harm in trying.
17:08 garycmartin TamTam is a high value set of Activities for us I think, and CSound is very powerful and long lived code (though not originally designed for real-time work), it's great that it can be a stepping stone as it's also a language used by many music/sound engineer professionals.
17:11 cjl agreed
17:12 maybe we can talk Barry int oadding Maori instruments  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taonga_p%C5%ABoro
17:13 We need an indig bull-roarer
17:14 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL4Yq5S1gTY
17:15 garycmartin cjl: If you have concrete feature requests of deployment value, consider creating an enhancement ticket at bugs.sugarlabs.org so a future maintainer or interested volunteer has a chance to find it.
17:15 cjl sure
17:16 Just thinking out load right now, but I wil document
17:16 s/load/loud/
17:23 garycmartin: http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/3735
17:24 garycmartin cjl: fab :)
17:25 cjl np
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17:34 cjl walterbender: Do you think it is okay if I shoot a note to Barry suggesting that he could add a "cultural L10n" feature for M?ori users by finding someone to work on #3735?  Or would it be better if you proposed it?
17:35 It would make for a nice demo.
17:39 walterbender cjl: sure
17:39 cjl ok. I'll cc you
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18:20 dirakx cjl: manuq I removed the _ from the sources...is there any effort regarding code that I should follow up ?.
18:21 manuq dirakx: no, it's ok, the translations should be updated now
18:22 dirakx manuq: ok thanks
18:37 cjl dirakx: The POT was refreshed, the modified PO files will roll in as completed.  If I have some time, I'll take a look at it, but I am really busy wit hother things now and if it is not meant for 12.1.0, it is not urgent.
18:38 By take a look at it,  I mean open a few hundred PO files and see if I can make the changes in the strings myself.
18:40 dirakx: If it is envisioned to include in 12.1.0,  Iwill up it on my priority list.
18:48 dirakx cjl: thanks again.
18:53 cjl dirakx: np
18:56 dirakx: BTW, if the alt-r alt-s and alt-c are no tmeant t obe localized (and I am not sure they are) then they should not be in the POT.
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