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#sugar-meeting, 2012-05-09

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19:41 keynote2k hello
19:41 walterbender keynote2k: he was just bumped off the server... presumably he'll be reappearing in a minute
19:41 keynote2k ok
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21:07 icarito testing 123
21:10 walterbender kaametza is also here we could touch base even if tony doesn't show
21:11 walterbender If tony can join us...
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21:12 walterbender to summarize where we are... it looks like a distributed organizational model is difficult if not impossible for the SFC to manage from within.
21:13 so in brief, in a discussion we tony, we talked about the possibility of setting up a new org to handle that aspect of things
21:13 SFC would still be the home for the project
21:13 new org would be the home for the things that need to augment the project in the field
21:13 new org could be set up to be distributed and global
21:14 this is a path another project is also pursuing
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21:15 walterbender mifos
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21:16 icarito quickly glancing at mifos
21:17 how would local labs function under this model?
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21:19 walterbender_ aaargh
21:19 my laptop crashed
21:19 overheated
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21:19 icarito ouch
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21:20 walterbender keynote2k: did you see my recap?
21:21 icarito: did you see my recap?
21:21 icarito walterbender, yes up to where you mentioned "mifos"
21:21 walterbender that is as far as I got
21:21 mifos is the other project that is looking into setting up a parallel org
21:22 icarito then I glanced at mifos and asked how would the local labs concept fit into this new org model
21:22 walterbender icarito: when we create new co, we could do it with local labs in mind from the start...
21:23 icarito: part of the problem is that SFC has no such structure or the ability to create it
21:23 icarito: and new co can subsume the liability without having it leak to the other SFC projects
21:24 icarito: the collective nature of the SFC naturally makes it more difficult to take risks as mistakes can impact every project
21:25 of course we would be in a similar position in new co re one local lab creating havoc for all the others, but at least it stays in the family
21:25 kaametza_ hi walter, when you refer to a new co you mean to incorporate like a NGO? US based?
21:25 walterbender kaametza_:  not sure... looking into the possibilities... but that is the obvious path
21:26 icarito i thought the idea of joining the SFC was to avoid having to create an org ourselves
21:26 kaametza_ the goal would be to associate all local labs?
21:27 I mean there are incorporated local labs already like colombia
21:27 icarito but if our need for decentralization does not fit into the SFC model then maybe a mixed model is acceptable for the SFC?
21:27 walterbender icarito that was part of my initial motivation, and it has served the project well in general
21:28 icarito: but we have needs beyond what the SFC can do
21:28 keynote2k walterbender: I didn't see your recap
21:28 I just received about twenty lines of backlogged chat all at once
21:28 walterbender keynote2k: sorry... and I lost the back log...
21:29 keynote2k: my machine crashed
21:29 icarito walterbender, keynote2k I have the backlog one sec
21:29 keynote2k: <walterbender> to summarize where we are... it looks like a distributed organizational model is difficult if not impossible for the SFC to manage from within.
21:29 so in brief, in a discussion we tony, we talked about the possibility of setting up a new org to handle that aspect of things
21:29 SFC would still be the home for the project
21:29 new org would be the home for the things that need to augment the project in the field
21:29 new org could be set up to be distributed and global
21:29 this is a path another project is also pursuing
21:30 keynote2k yes, that's correct
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21:31 walterbender what I didn't go on to say is that from the SFC POV, we'd have Sugar communities, but not Sugar Local Labs
21:31 and whatever New Co did vis-a-vis Local Labs would be independent of the SFC
21:31 keynote2k ok, I'm up to speed. :)
21:32 icarito: what do you think?
21:33 icarito keynote2k, one area that concerns us is we have some projects we'd like to get some help to fund
21:33 specifically at this point we are working on some development which will require for us to pilot
21:33 we have a local community
21:33 that has other projects as well
21:33 keynote2k what is your current fund raising plan?
21:34 kaametza_ we have a miexed strategy
21:34 icarito we are looking at various options, one of which is the possibility of doing crowdfunding
21:34 kaametza_ we are appling to grants and also looking for local resources from gov
21:35 keynote2k so, if we went with the structure walterbender is suggesting, you could continue to pursue those avenues, right?
21:35 kaametza_ still as icarito says fundraising seems to be the real option for the nature of the project
21:35 icarito resources from the government will involve going into a bidding process and for that we are looking at options from local partners (as you know, we are not incorporated)
21:36 kaametza_ this is not easy to put together as increases project overhead and doesnt necesarly make it sustainable
21:37 icarito currently some members of the community have directly funded the development but for actually deploying things seem more complicated
21:37 kaametza_ we would appriciate some help putting together a fund raising plan
21:37 icarito we think the fundraising, at least for the development part would possibly fit within the current SFC model
21:38 keynote2k I understand the issue, but having a "local lab" program affiliated with Sugar/Conservancy wouldn't solve this.
21:38 If Sugar as a project wants to fund specific software development, they can put together a grant proposal and seek funding.  But that's separate from the question of whether the project incorporates various Local Labs
21:39 icarito keynote2k, back when we asked this in December it was because the local authorities wanted to have some assurance we were a recognized group by an international institution
21:39 keynote2k were those local authorities looking to fund software development, or services, training and deployment?
21:40 icarito in fact, as members of Sugar Labs, it is my understanding we could ask for help with the funding, wether we are in Peru or anywhere, the problem becomes when we seek to bring these solutions to the field, correct?
21:41 keynote2k icarito:  Typically, project leadership committees gather development proposals from within the community and prioritize them.  Conservancy works with the leadership committee to put together grant proposals.
21:41 icarito keynote2k, we have found it is difficult to offer only the development part, they will always want help with deployment
21:41 keynote2k understood
21:42 walterbender icarito: I don't understand what you are asking...
21:43 icarito walterbender, currently we have very specific development plans and also a pilot
21:43 keynote2k Conservancy has a difficult time managing the exposure associated with deployment and training - especially when the deployment is happening outside of the US.  Conservancy isn't going to enter into a contract with a foreign municipality on behalf a set of volunteers to provide services in that country.
21:44 icarito the pilot is to test a solution that could scale, even globally
21:44 kaametza_ questions is how to present the relationship between local communitues with the global community to third parties as gov
21:44 walterbender icarito: I understand that, but I don't understand "we could ask for help with funding"
21:44 kaametza_: I think it is clear that we cannot as SL/SFC make such representations
21:44 kaametza_: but maybe in a new co, we can
21:45 icarito walterbender, as tony said, "develpment proposals" - for, for instance, a fundraising effort - we have thoought of, e.g. something like Kickstarter, but that particular example requires a US based org or person
21:46 kaametza_ walterbender: any local comunity would still be part of the global community doesn't necesarly requires represntation
21:46 keynote2k icarito: those development proposals wouldn't necessarily be by a local lab for a local lab, but by a project's leadership committee.
21:47 icarito keynote2k, understood, so that is the path we will follow for the specific project I'm mentioning, thanks for clarifying this
21:47 walterbender kaametza_: but icarito just got through saying that you needed the letter to demonstrate such representation
21:48 kaametza_ back in december we needed it, we understood it wasn't going to be possible after all
21:49 the question these days is how local community is related to SL/SFC?
21:49 keynote2k kaametza_:  it isn't.
21:49 icarito keynote2k, except every member of local community is a member of SL?
21:50 so the question becomes, how are members of SL related to SFC?
21:50 kaametza_ would it be possible to have specific agreements for specific purposes?
21:50 keynote2k a local community is a vibrant group of users and volunteers who use code.  Now, SL's charter may allow those members to vote for the leadership committee:  the SLOBs.  But, as local communities, they are unaffiliated with Conservancy
21:51 Conservancy's fiscal sponsorship agreement is with the SLOBs, not with individual contributors, or with various groups of local users/volunteers.  We can't govern that kind of scope
21:52 kaametza_ ok, still would it be possible to have specific agreements for specific purposes?
21:52 keynote2k I think it would be very difficult to do so.  To have a separate agreement would be tantamount to creating a separate fiscal sponsorship agreement
21:53 and any software development work with Sugar can and should be routed through the existing fiscal sponsorship agreement with SL
21:54 kaametza_ then the way to go would be thru teams and projects not local labs, correct?
21:54 keynote2k What do you mean by "teams and projects"?
21:55 icarito keynote2k, what about the Sugar Labs Deployment Team? no point in having one if we can only do development, correct?
21:55 walterbender, understanding this, it seems if SL wants to do anything which is not development per se, a new org might be neccessary
21:56 kaametza_ teams (group of SL members) developing Sugar sub-projects
21:56 walterbender icarito: the goal of the SL deployment team is to share ideas and know how... not do deployments
21:56 keynote2k the SL Deployment Team can exist to share information, etc.
21:56 I agree ^
21:56 walterbender icarito: that was indented to be the activity of local groups
21:57 kaametza_ what happens to associations already incorporated like colombia's ?
21:57 keynote2k how are they incorporated?
21:58 kaametza_ the are a NGO
21:58 keynote2k If they're incorporated as a stand-alone org in Colombia, then they're still not under the province of Conservancy
21:58 at that point, it's just a trademark licensing issue:  should SL allow a separate entity to call themselves SL?  (Note: I don't remember the name of the Colombian local lab)
21:59 kaametza_ Sugar Labs Colombia
21:59 it was incoporated on 2009
21:59 walterbender their website is down
22:00 kaametza_ they are still incorporated
22:00 icarito walterbender, yes bernie updated mediawiki but didn't run maintenance on the local labs, he gave me access a few days ago but I haven't managed to fix it yet
22:00 keynote2k well, so my personal position would be that it's dangerous to have a separate org named "Sugar Labs" - if they do something horribly bad, then it would reflect poorly on SL's brand.  That being said, Conservancy typically leaves it up to the projects to decide how stringent they want to be with their TM policy
22:00 but, they can presumably raise their own $ and keep their own bank account, since they're an independent NGO
22:01 neither SL nor Conservancy would be exposed to liability based on anything Sugar Labs Colombia does.  The only risk is the potential misuse or dilution of the SL brand
22:02 icarito walterbender, keynote2k, so how complicated is it to found this new-org, who will do the work necessary and how can we help?
22:02 walterbender I've already started looking into it
22:03 I need to write a draft of the charter and then I will run it past SLOB and SFC for feedback
22:03 but it will be wholly independent of SFC/SL in its incorporation
22:04 (sort of like the way OLPC is both OLPCA and OLPCF)
22:04 two charters, two sets of books, two boards
22:04 just lots of the same people
22:04 icarito two boards?
22:04 walterbender yes.
22:05 it may be that new co decides to appoint SLOB members as its board members, but that is a decision to make not a requirement
22:06 kaametza_ walterbender: would this new co afiliate the current "local labs" as franchises?
22:07 walterbender kaametza_:  we need to decide how to do that, but that would be one of the intentions of setting up a new co
22:08 kaametza_: I was thinking along the lines of moodle
22:08 (as I mentioned in the SLOB meeting)
22:09 kaametza_ would it be focused on providing services then?
22:09 walterbender yes... that is the whole point
22:10 kaametza_ well it sound like a very smart way to go
22:10 icarito would this new org also be in condition to accept donations for pilots/other deployment, field oriented projects?
22:11 walterbender icarito: we should compile a wish list for new co and then see how close we can come to developing a structure that can accomodate
22:12 needs to disappear soon... to be continued at tomorrow's SLOB meeting?
22:12 kaametza_ i like wish lists!
22:13 icarito fine I think the picture is much more clear for us now
22:13 we appreciate the help SFC provides in development and for Freedom, keynote2k, by the way :-)
22:13 keynote2k glad to help.  :)
22:14 kaametza_ would it be a good idea to keep current "local labs" in the loop?
22:14 walterbender kaametza_: of course
22:15 kaametza_ I guess everybody is in edujam these days
22:15 walterbender I'll send the backlog to SLOBs and  we can keep talking
22:15 everybody but me :(
22:15 kaametza_ or me :o(
22:15 keynote2k I have to run too
22:15 icarito ok guys thanks for your time
22:15 keynote2k take care, all
22:16 kaametza_ have a good one
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22:16 icarito walterbender, if you'll be coming to Peru it would be nice to meet
22:17 i guess we need to bring you up to speed regarding the Sugar Network plans and how we can help OLPC deployments
22:18 walterbender icarito: early in June, I think
22:18 icarito in time for our 0.3 release then :-)
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