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| 19:41 | keynote2k | hello |
| 19:41 | walterbender | keynote2k: he was just bumped off the server... presumably he'll be reappearing in a minute |
| 19:41 | keynote2k | ok |
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| 21:07 | icarito | testing 123 |
| 21:10 | walterbender kaametza is also here we could touch base even if tony doesn't show | |
| 21:11 | walterbender | If tony can join us... |
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| 21:12 | walterbender | to summarize where we are... it looks like a distributed organizational model is difficult if not impossible for the SFC to manage from within. |
| 21:13 | so in brief, in a discussion we tony, we talked about the possibility of setting up a new org to handle that aspect of things | |
| 21:13 | SFC would still be the home for the project | |
| 21:13 | new org would be the home for the things that need to augment the project in the field | |
| 21:13 | new org could be set up to be distributed and global | |
| 21:14 | this is a path another project is also pursuing | |
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| 21:15 | walterbender | mifos |
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| 21:16 | icarito | quickly glancing at mifos |
| 21:17 | how would local labs function under this model? | |
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| 21:19 | walterbender_ | aaargh |
| 21:19 | my laptop crashed | |
| 21:19 | overheated | |
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| 21:19 | icarito | ouch |
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| 21:20 | walterbender | keynote2k: did you see my recap? |
| 21:21 | icarito: did you see my recap? | |
| 21:21 | icarito | walterbender, yes up to where you mentioned "mifos" |
| 21:21 | walterbender | that is as far as I got |
| 21:21 | mifos is the other project that is looking into setting up a parallel org | |
| 21:22 | icarito | then I glanced at mifos and asked how would the local labs concept fit into this new org model |
| 21:22 | walterbender | icarito: when we create new co, we could do it with local labs in mind from the start... |
| 21:23 | icarito: part of the problem is that SFC has no such structure or the ability to create it | |
| 21:23 | icarito: and new co can subsume the liability without having it leak to the other SFC projects | |
| 21:24 | icarito: the collective nature of the SFC naturally makes it more difficult to take risks as mistakes can impact every project | |
| 21:25 | of course we would be in a similar position in new co re one local lab creating havoc for all the others, but at least it stays in the family | |
| 21:25 | kaametza_ | hi walter, when you refer to a new co you mean to incorporate like a NGO? US based? |
| 21:25 | walterbender | kaametza_: not sure... looking into the possibilities... but that is the obvious path |
| 21:26 | icarito | i thought the idea of joining the SFC was to avoid having to create an org ourselves |
| 21:26 | kaametza_ | the goal would be to associate all local labs? |
| 21:27 | I mean there are incorporated local labs already like colombia | |
| 21:27 | icarito | but if our need for decentralization does not fit into the SFC model then maybe a mixed model is acceptable for the SFC? |
| 21:27 | walterbender | icarito that was part of my initial motivation, and it has served the project well in general |
| 21:28 | icarito: but we have needs beyond what the SFC can do | |
| 21:28 | keynote2k | walterbender: I didn't see your recap |
| 21:28 | I just received about twenty lines of backlogged chat all at once | |
| 21:28 | walterbender | keynote2k: sorry... and I lost the back log... |
| 21:29 | keynote2k: my machine crashed | |
| 21:29 | icarito | walterbender, keynote2k I have the backlog one sec |
| 21:29 | keynote2k: <walterbender> to summarize where we are... it looks like a distributed organizational model is difficult if not impossible for the SFC to manage from within. | |
| 21:29 | so in brief, in a discussion we tony, we talked about the possibility of setting up a new org to handle that aspect of things | |
| 21:29 | SFC would still be the home for the project | |
| 21:29 | new org would be the home for the things that need to augment the project in the field | |
| 21:29 | new org could be set up to be distributed and global | |
| 21:29 | this is a path another project is also pursuing | |
| 21:30 | keynote2k | yes, that's correct |
| 21:30 | Ariel_Calzada has quit IRC | |
| 21:31 | walterbender | what I didn't go on to say is that from the SFC POV, we'd have Sugar communities, but not Sugar Local Labs |
| 21:31 | and whatever New Co did vis-a-vis Local Labs would be independent of the SFC | |
| 21:31 | keynote2k | ok, I'm up to speed. :) |
| 21:32 | icarito: what do you think? | |
| 21:33 | icarito | keynote2k, one area that concerns us is we have some projects we'd like to get some help to fund |
| 21:33 | specifically at this point we are working on some development which will require for us to pilot | |
| 21:33 | we have a local community | |
| 21:33 | that has other projects as well | |
| 21:33 | keynote2k | what is your current fund raising plan? |
| 21:34 | kaametza_ | we have a miexed strategy |
| 21:34 | icarito | we are looking at various options, one of which is the possibility of doing crowdfunding |
| 21:34 | kaametza_ | we are appling to grants and also looking for local resources from gov |
| 21:35 | keynote2k | so, if we went with the structure walterbender is suggesting, you could continue to pursue those avenues, right? |
| 21:35 | kaametza_ | still as icarito says fundraising seems to be the real option for the nature of the project |
| 21:35 | icarito | resources from the government will involve going into a bidding process and for that we are looking at options from local partners (as you know, we are not incorporated) |
| 21:36 | kaametza_ | this is not easy to put together as increases project overhead and doesnt necesarly make it sustainable |
| 21:37 | icarito | currently some members of the community have directly funded the development but for actually deploying things seem more complicated |
| 21:37 | kaametza_ | we would appriciate some help putting together a fund raising plan |
| 21:37 | icarito | we think the fundraising, at least for the development part would possibly fit within the current SFC model |
| 21:38 | keynote2k | I understand the issue, but having a "local lab" program affiliated with Sugar/Conservancy wouldn't solve this. |
| 21:38 | If Sugar as a project wants to fund specific software development, they can put together a grant proposal and seek funding. But that's separate from the question of whether the project incorporates various Local Labs | |
| 21:39 | icarito | keynote2k, back when we asked this in December it was because the local authorities wanted to have some assurance we were a recognized group by an international institution |
| 21:39 | keynote2k | were those local authorities looking to fund software development, or services, training and deployment? |
| 21:40 | icarito | in fact, as members of Sugar Labs, it is my understanding we could ask for help with the funding, wether we are in Peru or anywhere, the problem becomes when we seek to bring these solutions to the field, correct? |
| 21:41 | keynote2k | icarito: Typically, project leadership committees gather development proposals from within the community and prioritize them. Conservancy works with the leadership committee to put together grant proposals. |
| 21:41 | icarito | keynote2k, we have found it is difficult to offer only the development part, they will always want help with deployment |
| 21:41 | keynote2k | understood |
| 21:42 | walterbender | icarito: I don't understand what you are asking... |
| 21:43 | icarito | walterbender, currently we have very specific development plans and also a pilot |
| 21:43 | keynote2k | Conservancy has a difficult time managing the exposure associated with deployment and training - especially when the deployment is happening outside of the US. Conservancy isn't going to enter into a contract with a foreign municipality on behalf a set of volunteers to provide services in that country. |
| 21:44 | icarito | the pilot is to test a solution that could scale, even globally |
| 21:44 | kaametza_ | questions is how to present the relationship between local communitues with the global community to third parties as gov |
| 21:44 | walterbender | icarito: I understand that, but I don't understand "we could ask for help with funding" |
| 21:44 | kaametza_: I think it is clear that we cannot as SL/SFC make such representations | |
| 21:44 | kaametza_: but maybe in a new co, we can | |
| 21:45 | icarito | walterbender, as tony said, "develpment proposals" - for, for instance, a fundraising effort - we have thoought of, e.g. something like Kickstarter, but that particular example requires a US based org or person |
| 21:46 | kaametza_ | walterbender: any local comunity would still be part of the global community doesn't necesarly requires represntation |
| 21:46 | keynote2k | icarito: those development proposals wouldn't necessarily be by a local lab for a local lab, but by a project's leadership committee. |
| 21:47 | icarito | keynote2k, understood, so that is the path we will follow for the specific project I'm mentioning, thanks for clarifying this |
| 21:47 | walterbender | kaametza_: but icarito just got through saying that you needed the letter to demonstrate such representation |
| 21:48 | kaametza_ | back in december we needed it, we understood it wasn't going to be possible after all |
| 21:49 | the question these days is how local community is related to SL/SFC? | |
| 21:49 | keynote2k | kaametza_: it isn't. |
| 21:49 | icarito | keynote2k, except every member of local community is a member of SL? |
| 21:50 | so the question becomes, how are members of SL related to SFC? | |
| 21:50 | kaametza_ | would it be possible to have specific agreements for specific purposes? |
| 21:50 | keynote2k | a local community is a vibrant group of users and volunteers who use code. Now, SL's charter may allow those members to vote for the leadership committee: the SLOBs. But, as local communities, they are unaffiliated with Conservancy |
| 21:51 | Conservancy's fiscal sponsorship agreement is with the SLOBs, not with individual contributors, or with various groups of local users/volunteers. We can't govern that kind of scope | |
| 21:52 | kaametza_ | ok, still would it be possible to have specific agreements for specific purposes? |
| 21:52 | keynote2k | I think it would be very difficult to do so. To have a separate agreement would be tantamount to creating a separate fiscal sponsorship agreement |
| 21:53 | and any software development work with Sugar can and should be routed through the existing fiscal sponsorship agreement with SL | |
| 21:54 | kaametza_ | then the way to go would be thru teams and projects not local labs, correct? |
| 21:54 | keynote2k | What do you mean by "teams and projects"? |
| 21:55 | icarito | keynote2k, what about the Sugar Labs Deployment Team? no point in having one if we can only do development, correct? |
| 21:55 | walterbender, understanding this, it seems if SL wants to do anything which is not development per se, a new org might be neccessary | |
| 21:56 | kaametza_ | teams (group of SL members) developing Sugar sub-projects |
| 21:56 | walterbender | icarito: the goal of the SL deployment team is to share ideas and know how... not do deployments |
| 21:56 | keynote2k | the SL Deployment Team can exist to share information, etc. |
| 21:56 | I agree ^ | |
| 21:56 | walterbender | icarito: that was indented to be the activity of local groups |
| 21:57 | kaametza_ | what happens to associations already incorporated like colombia's ? |
| 21:57 | keynote2k | how are they incorporated? |
| 21:58 | kaametza_ | the are a NGO |
| 21:58 | keynote2k | If they're incorporated as a stand-alone org in Colombia, then they're still not under the province of Conservancy |
| 21:58 | at that point, it's just a trademark licensing issue: should SL allow a separate entity to call themselves SL? (Note: I don't remember the name of the Colombian local lab) | |
| 21:59 | kaametza_ | Sugar Labs Colombia |
| 21:59 | it was incoporated on 2009 | |
| 21:59 | walterbender | their website is down |
| 22:00 | kaametza_ | they are still incorporated |
| 22:00 | icarito | walterbender, yes bernie updated mediawiki but didn't run maintenance on the local labs, he gave me access a few days ago but I haven't managed to fix it yet |
| 22:00 | keynote2k | well, so my personal position would be that it's dangerous to have a separate org named "Sugar Labs" - if they do something horribly bad, then it would reflect poorly on SL's brand. That being said, Conservancy typically leaves it up to the projects to decide how stringent they want to be with their TM policy |
| 22:00 | but, they can presumably raise their own $ and keep their own bank account, since they're an independent NGO | |
| 22:01 | neither SL nor Conservancy would be exposed to liability based on anything Sugar Labs Colombia does. The only risk is the potential misuse or dilution of the SL brand | |
| 22:02 | icarito | walterbender, keynote2k, so how complicated is it to found this new-org, who will do the work necessary and how can we help? |
| 22:02 | walterbender | I've already started looking into it |
| 22:03 | I need to write a draft of the charter and then I will run it past SLOB and SFC for feedback | |
| 22:03 | but it will be wholly independent of SFC/SL in its incorporation | |
| 22:04 | (sort of like the way OLPC is both OLPCA and OLPCF) | |
| 22:04 | two charters, two sets of books, two boards | |
| 22:04 | just lots of the same people | |
| 22:04 | icarito | two boards? |
| 22:04 | walterbender | yes. |
| 22:05 | it may be that new co decides to appoint SLOB members as its board members, but that is a decision to make not a requirement | |
| 22:06 | kaametza_ | walterbender: would this new co afiliate the current "local labs" as franchises? |
| 22:07 | walterbender | kaametza_: we need to decide how to do that, but that would be one of the intentions of setting up a new co |
| 22:08 | kaametza_: I was thinking along the lines of moodle | |
| 22:08 | (as I mentioned in the SLOB meeting) | |
| 22:09 | kaametza_ | would it be focused on providing services then? |
| 22:09 | walterbender | yes... that is the whole point |
| 22:10 | kaametza_ | well it sound like a very smart way to go |
| 22:10 | icarito | would this new org also be in condition to accept donations for pilots/other deployment, field oriented projects? |
| 22:11 | walterbender | icarito: we should compile a wish list for new co and then see how close we can come to developing a structure that can accomodate |
| 22:12 | needs to disappear soon... to be continued at tomorrow's SLOB meeting? | |
| 22:12 | kaametza_ | i like wish lists! |
| 22:13 | icarito | fine I think the picture is much more clear for us now |
| 22:13 | we appreciate the help SFC provides in development and for Freedom, keynote2k, by the way :-) | |
| 22:13 | keynote2k | glad to help. :) |
| 22:14 | kaametza_ | would it be a good idea to keep current "local labs" in the loop? |
| 22:14 | walterbender | kaametza_: of course |
| 22:15 | kaametza_ | I guess everybody is in edujam these days |
| 22:15 | walterbender | I'll send the backlog to SLOBs and we can keep talking |
| 22:15 | everybody but me :( | |
| 22:15 | kaametza_ | or me :o( |
| 22:15 | keynote2k | I have to run too |
| 22:15 | icarito | ok guys thanks for your time |
| 22:15 | keynote2k | take care, all |
| 22:16 | kaametza_ | have a good one |
| 22:16 | keynote2k has left #sugar-meeting | |
| 22:16 | icarito | walterbender, if you'll be coming to Peru it would be nice to meet |
| 22:17 | i guess we need to bring you up to speed regarding the Sugar Network plans and how we can help OLPC deployments | |
| 22:18 | walterbender | icarito: early in June, I think |
| 22:18 | icarito | in time for our 0.3 release then :-) |
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