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#sugar-meeting, 2012-03-27

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15:03 erikos #startmeeting
15:03 meeting Meeting started Tue Mar 27 15:03:58 2012 UTC. The chair is erikos. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:03 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
15:04 manuq waves
15:04 erikos hey, who is around for the dev meeting?
15:04 hi manuq
15:04 garycmartin erikos: Hi!
15:04 erikos hi garycmartin
15:05 silbe is there
15:05 erikos hi silbe
15:07 gonzalo_: ?
15:08 gonzalo_ here :)
15:08 erikos silbe: can you comment on the "Do not display APs that announce the ssid in invalid utf-8 data, OLPC #11698" ?
15:08 silbe: would be good to get that bugfix in
15:08 gonzalo_: hey
15:08 ok, let's start
15:08 silbe erikos: FYI: I'm currently reviewing your SSID vs. UTF-8 patch. It'll take me some time (though I hope to finish today), but I don't think it should land in its current form. Not sure whether the code is OK as-is, but the description should definitely be changed.
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15:09 erikos silbe: comments welcome
15:11 silbe: such a detailed description and you don't like it
15:11 - status of GTK3 port
15:11 so the current status is that we do have quite a few regressions still
15:11 silbe erikos: I think it's misleading (more on that in the actual review). But I certainly appreciate the effort that went into it.
15:12 erikos in the toolkit-gtk3, Browse and Read
15:12 silbe: sure, improvements welcome, make sure to read as well the upstream bugs
15:13 there is a first olpc build http://build.laptop.org/12.1.0/os5/
15:13 that has the latest rpms for testing
15:13 at the moment browse crashes, manu is on it
15:13 manuq erikos: yes
15:14 erikos in any case in the current form (which brings us to the next topic) I do not want to release
15:14 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0[…]/Roadmap#Schedule
15:15 any agreement/disagreement?
15:15 manuq erikos: so Browse port is not finished, and there are a few things that are hard to implement, or need to be implemented in webkit first
15:15 erikos: so I agree
15:16 erikos manuq: there are some items we surely can not land in this cycle
15:16 silbe erikos: what are the blocker bugs?
15:16 erikos manuq: but we have at least to polish it up
15:16 silbe: browse crash, does that sound enough? ;p
15:17 manuq erikos: of course
15:17 silbe erikos: is there anything affecting Glucose or just Fructose (Browse and Read in particular)?
15:17 erikos apart from that there are some more under the 0.96 milestone
15:18 silbe: basically anything that has to do with the new toolkit-gtk3
15:18 so browse and read
15:18 gonzalo_ http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/quer[…]nt&milestone=0.96
15:19 erikos for F17 we have to hand in the code by next week, in order to make it into the gold without exceptions
15:20 so definitely we have to fix some more bugs until then and hand that in
15:20 silbe erikos: we could release Glucose and delay just Browse and Read. Bug fixes to sugar-toolkit-gtk3 that are required for Browse and Read can easily go into 0.96.1.
15:21 erikos silbe: but Browse and Read are core components
15:21 silbe (assuming there are no blocker bugs for Glucose itself; I haven't checked in detail yet)
15:21 erikos: yes, core *Fructose* components.
15:22 erikos: the old versions of Fructose components should continue to work fine on Glucose 0.96
15:22 erikos in any case we have a few more days until we need the Fedora tarballs and I want to use that time
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15:23 erikos silbe: so if you have bug fixes, hand them in by this week
15:24 silbe: definitely I want a fix for OLPC #11698
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15:25 silbe erikos: I usually post bug fix patches as soon as I have them, there's no intentional delay on my side.
15:26 erikos silbe: great, just saying if you have something, or there is a bugfix that slipped point it out
15:28 gonzalo_: activity: - agree on Activity porting guidelines [1]
15:28 garycmartin: ^
15:29 gonzalo_ erikos, yes, we talked about the numbering sheme last week
15:29 garycmartin erikos: That's a great page, read it through this morning :)
15:29 erikos: I still have a dotted version concern...
15:30 erikos garycmartin: yes, I like the page as well
15:30 garycmartin: please, speak out load ;p
15:30 garycmartin erikos: ASLO seems quite happy with dotted version numbers (Abacus and WinipediaEN are already using them), thanks goodness.
15:31 But test installing a dotted version in build 802, Sugar 0.82.1 (my base test system) fails to recognise the .xo bundle and does not allow it to be installed.
15:31 erikos wasn't aware that there is a Winnie Puuh activity
15:32 garycmartin WikipediaEN ;)
15:32 cjl I have some concerns about the ne wwebkitgtk based Browse regarding i18n failures upstream.
15:32 erikos garycmartin: 0.82.1?
15:32 cjl http://l10n.gnome.org/module/webkit/ is not a pretty picture
15:32 erikos cjl: one moment please
15:33 cjl sorry
15:34 erikos garycmartin: waht is the message you get?
15:34 garycmartin: is there any error handling visible to the user?
15:34 garycmartin erikos: 0.82.1 yea, at least that's what the XO about my computer says. I know it's old but it's what I consider the first fairly robust Sugar that went out on lots of laptops...
15:34 erikos garycmartin: ok, fair enough
15:35 garycmartin: so I discussed it with gonzalo_ the other day ,under which circumstances this happens
15:35 - dotted versions will only be made when there is a bug-fix
15:36 garycmartin erikos: No visible errors I could see. The user experience is that the .xo bundle downloads to the Journal, but shows up as an unknown file type. Resuming it does nothing, Starting it from the palette does nothing. The old version of the activity is left intact so no direct damage/loss.
15:36 erikos and let's even say, a serious bugfix
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15:37 erikos if the bugfix is that important, the deployment (that has 0.82) can make it happen, without the dotted version
15:37 garycmartin erikos: I've not had time to test other builds to see how far back Sugar behaves like this...
15:38 erikos garycmartin: 0.84 has dotted support
15:38 I just think we are trying to fix an issue that might not even arise that often, if at all
15:39 silbe garycmartin: it's hard to say because dotted version support was backported to 0.84, so neither early Sugar 0.84 based builds nor 0.86 and 0.88 based builds have it.
15:39 manuq thinks that an XO with 0.82 has more things to solve in Sugar side than in activities
15:39 garycmartin OK so 0.82 deployments will need to make their own integer releases that will very likely collide with our new versions as they upgrade in the future?
15:39 gonzalo_ garycmartin, and the not updated xo are usually without connectivty then will not use aslo, nor update activities
15:41 erikos garycmartin: I am not saying that there will be no mess, but I am thinking about probability
15:41 satellit_ whaat about my DVD of activities for sneakernet installs? http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/S[…]tion_Kit#ASLOxo-6
15:41 gonzalo_ satellit_, what about that?
15:41 erikos garycmartin: do we have another option on the table, that we could compare to?
15:42 garycmartin: reserving some integers?
15:42 satellit_ will it be bad for these deployments if I update it?
15:42 garycmartin erikos: I can only thing of the old +10 int and hope we don't have that many critical bug fixes.
15:42 s/thing/think/
15:44 manuq what should we do with the activities that already released GTK3 versions following the dotted numbering?
15:44 erikos manuq: yeah, just thought about that
15:44 manuq: do we have some?
15:45 manuq: I mean with bug fixes
15:45 manuq erikos: WikipediaEN and Abacus
15:45 gonzalo_ erikos, read and browse
15:45 manuq yeah gonzalo_
15:46 gonzalo_ manuq, wikipedia is a different beast
15:46 erikos gonzalo_: only in olpc-land I presume? http://activities.sugarlabs.or[…]ons/versions/4028
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15:47 gonzalo_ erikos, yes, we included small fixes in our image
15:48 erikos http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/G1G1
15:48 gonzalo_ erikos, or in other cases translations
15:48 erikos gonzalo_: yeah
15:49 gonzalo_: though in the image is a different case, as we install the os with it
15:49 I guess, the main blocker is installation through ASLO, or?
15:49 gonzalo_ garycmartin, proabably you will not do more development in gtk2 after porting to gtk3, right?
15:51 garycmartin gonzalo_: I'm trying to land as much bug fixes as I can for gtk2, don't plan gtk3 until that is done (but am between a rock and a hard place with that decision).
15:51 gonzalo_ garycmartin, ok, but in activities, is no so hard the place :)
15:52 garycmartin erikos: so the red line has already been passed for a number of the core activities. So I guess the +10 int is just moot and we should just continue with the dotted plan.
15:54 gonzalo_ erikos, ok, any other issue pending?
15:54 erikos garycmartin: I think so, to me at least it sounds ok
15:54 garycmartin erikos: deployments will need to upgrade to a newer Sugar if they want to take advantage of Activity bug fixes, which kind'a makes releasing dotted gtk2 bug fix Activities a pretty niche market ;-)
15:55 erikos gonzalo_: nope, besides bug fixing ;p
15:55 garycmartin: but that implies the deployments are still at 0.82
15:56 garycmartin: I think most of them are >= 0.84 by now
15:56 gonzalo_ garycmartin, the last 4 images include dotted versions...
15:56 garycmartin erikos: my fingers crossed for most folks being >= 0.84.xx
15:57 erikos garycmartin: and if a deployment has not updated from 0.82 yet, I bet they have other issues than an activity bugfix ;p
15:57 garycmartin erikos: ;)
15:58 manuq yes I think so too
15:58 garycmartin: can I ask a quick question about Physics?
15:58 garycmartin manuq: Sure.
15:59 manuq garycmartin: did you ever were in need to recompile the Box2D binary?
16:00 gonzalo_ erikos, the meeting ended?
16:01 manuq garycmartin: I'm trying to figure out this ticket: #3361
16:01 garycmartin manuq: I don't think it was needed for a crash fix, but we (not me, Brian I think) did recompile to catch up with the latest version last year.
16:01 manuq garycmartin: ok, maybe I can contact Brian and ask him
16:02 garycmartin manuq: Yes, I've been tracking #3361, don't have time yet to put into future gtk3 & F17 bugs until I have gtk2 releases out of the way (sorry)
16:02 manuq garycmartin: the libs that are inside Physics, which are Elements and Box2D, seem for Python 2.5
16:02 garycmartin: they are packaged as python eggs
16:02 garycmartin manuq: yep
16:03 silbe garycmartin: Personally, I wouldn't care much about deployments that are still running 0.82. Chances are they don't update the activities either. However, I am concerned about deployments that are running 0.88 based builds ("F11+0.88" = Dextrose 1, Dextrose 2). There's a good chance they can't cope with dotted versions.
16:03 manuq garycmartin: ok, great!
16:03 garycmartin manuq: but it should use the system installed version first, before falling back to those packges.
16:03 manuq garycmartin: yes, true
16:04 gonzalo_ silbe, but didn't you ported the dotted version changes to 0.88?
16:07 manuq ok are we done?
16:08 silbe gonzalo_: I certainly didn't (wasn't involved with DX1/2 development) and I don't know if anyone did.
16:10 walterbender alwasy blames bernie :)
16:13 silbe FWIW, I don't see anything related to dotted versions in http://git.sugarlabs.org/dextr[…]pms/sugar-toolkit so I wouldn't expect DX1+DX2 to support them.
16:15 I don't think upstream should block on that, but we should make it pretty clear to deployments that there is potential trouble ahead.
16:18 anything else left to discuss?
16:20 garycmartin silbe: no, nothing from me
16:20 silbe good. erikos, care to close the meeting?
16:22 erikos seems to have dozed off. Let's call it a day; thanks to everyone for participating!
16:24 manuq thanks everyone!
16:25 garycmartin thanks all, have to dash!
16:26 silbe garycmartin: have fun! (everyone else too, of course)
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16:35 bernie silbe, erikos: sorry, i'm afraid dotted activity versions didn't make it in time for DX2 if they weren't already in sugar 0.88
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