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#sugar-meeting, 2012-02-14

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14:56 erikos_ meeting here in 4 minutes
14:57 meeting erikos_: Error: "here" is not a valid command.
14:57 erikos_ hey botty!
15:01 #startmeeting
15:01 meeting Meeting started Tue Feb 14 15:01:40 2012 UTC. The chair is erikos_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:01 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
15:01 erikos_ hey who is around for the dev meeting?
15:02 seen the two G's gonzalo and garycmartin
15:02 garycmartin raises hand
15:02 erikos_ spotted manuq as well
15:02 manuq hello!
15:03 garycmartin manuq:  Hi!
15:04 erikos_ ok, lets start!
15:05 #topic status of the GTK3 port
15:05 gonzalo hello!
15:05 garycmartin, nice to see you!
15:05 garycmartin Hi gonzalo! :)
15:05 erikos_ gonzalo, sshh, you are late!
15:05 gonzalo :)
15:05 erikos_ :)
15:06 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]/GTK3/Development
15:06 m_anish present too
15:06 erikos_ we updated the open item list a bit on this page
15:06 and Gonzalo already chimed in and gave us a 'screenshot' patch
15:06 gonzalo hello m_anish
15:06 erikos_ hi m_anish
15:07 m_anish gonzalo, erikos_ hola!
15:07 erikos_ so we are keeping on making progress
15:07 we need to pick up the remaining items in the theme as well
15:07 manuq gonzalo's patch resolves the stretched thumbnails we had in the journal, so congrats for this change
15:08 erikos_ manuq, yes!
15:08 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/GTK3/Theme this is the current theme list
15:08 manuq erikos_: I talked with Company yesterday at #gnome-design
15:08 erikos_ manuq, weeeh, nice!
15:08 manuq about the scale button, but no progress so far :(
15:09 garycmartin Was the squash thumbnails fixed with or without the toolbar? Didn't quite follow the end of that thread.
15:09 manuq garycmartin: without the toolbar
15:09 garycmartin manuq: fab
15:09 gonzalo garycmartin, and manuq pointed we was stretching the image
15:09 (artist eye)
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15:10 gonzalo then i send a second patch doing the scale without stretching
15:10 manuq garycmartin: the patch fits the image in the thumbnail size, like a letterbox
15:10 garycmartin: is the same gnome does
15:10 garycmartin Thanks, understood.
15:11 erikos_ good work on this one guys
15:11 manuq so erikos_, seems that Adwaita does the scale button outside the trough bar, but gnome-themes-standard doesn't
15:11 erikos_ while we have Gary around I wonder if we should quickly discuss the browse/pdf interaction
15:12 manuq erikos_: great idea
15:12 garycmartin erikos_: I thought the email thread was going in a good direction.
15:12 erikos_ manuq, (ok we can discuss the detail of the theme after the meeting)
15:12 manuq ok!
15:13 erikos_ manuq, your room to ask about pdf/browse!
15:13 manuq ok
15:13 so, what I have now is a patch that:
15:13 1. opens the pdf in the next tab
15:13 2. shows a overflow bar at the bottom with basic navigation controls, plus:
15:14 garycmartin (e.g. view pdf in browse but with extra toolbar with pdf specific features such as copy to journal)
15:14 manuq 3. a button to save to journal
15:14 garycmartin manuq: what was the call behind opening a new tab?
15:14 why not just open the pdf in the current tab?
15:15 gonzalo garycmartin, if we open it in a new tab we don't need embed the pdf in the webview
15:15 erikos_ garycmartin, it was to make it easier technical wise
15:15 manuq garycmartin: is for technical restrictions, but I think it can be done
15:16 garycmartin erikos_: Ah OK, technical reasons.
15:16 manuq garycmartin: in my current implementation, I add a new tab with an evince view, instead of a webkit view
15:16 garycmartin: but I will investigate the other option
15:16 gonzalo manuq, you switch to the new tab?
15:16 manuq that is, do it with a plug-in
15:17 gonzalo: yes
15:17 so, questions I woul like to raise are:
15:18 garycmartin manuq: thanks, down side to spawning new tabs is the extra complication it can cause (some folks get lost in tabs, not sure what to close, or that their old tab is still there), also memory footprint grows with each new tab.
15:19 manuq garycmartin: good point
15:19 yes, tabs should be taken as an optional feature
15:20 so, what should we do in the session store?
15:20 should we store the PDFs in the history?
15:21 I think the answer is yes :)
15:21 technically, may be difficult
15:22 that is why my first attempt was open in another tab and dismiss them when the activity stops
15:22 m_anish manuq, sorry to be late to the party,are there any mockups, screenshots?
15:22 gonzalo manuq, but we don't have history by tabs?
15:22 garycmartin yes to storing the pdf URL in the history, the PDF might even have additional URL links embedded leading back to html pages. Not sure what that would trigger – a new tab?
15:22 manuq m_anish: I will do an screenshot now
15:23 garycmartin: I was considering that also
15:23 erikos_ garycmartin, ok, so one thing we can conclude is: if we can make the inline pdf happen in the same tab this is preferred
15:23 manuq erikos_: yes
15:23 garycmartin yep.
15:24 m_anish manuq, does loading pdf's within browse consume too much memory? Thinking of doing this operation on a XO-1/XO-1.5 in terms of smoothness?
15:24 erikos_ garycmartin, do you like the overlay idea? it will be similar to the safari behavior
15:24 manuq I will check if I can connect to evince for the hiperlinks
15:24 erikos_ m_anish, we have done it before, and manu is testing on an XO...
15:25 m_anish erikos_, ok
15:25 erikos_ manuq, it is the same backend as Read is using btw
15:26 manuq sorry, I don't know what's Read behaviour for hiperlinks
15:26 checks
15:26 erikos_ manuq, sorry was for m_anish
15:26 m_anish,  it is the same backend as Read is using btw
15:26 m_anish, evince
15:26 garycmartin erikos_: an overlay for the new pdf only features seems a reasonable call. Works well in safari. Are we planning on hiding/revealing it – this could cause complications especially for touch based hardware.
15:27 erikos_ garycmartin, yes, the interaction would be the same as in safari, with the hiding/revealing
15:27 garycmartin, touch is a good point, indeed
15:27 m_anish erikos_, i'm just concerned about many tabs with many pdfs (which can be big) just slowing up the XO too much, but that's probably a different issue.
15:27 erikos_ wonders what the ipad is doing here
15:28 manuq good point
15:28 m_anish erikos_, do we have multiple 'tabs' in the read activity (like the adobe reader does)... I'm going off a tangent here... feel free to ignore this :)
15:29 garycmartin erikos_: So in mobile safari if you just tap the screen you get a toolbar strip that fades in at the top of the view that has the "open in ibooks" and "open in …" features in (it auto fades out after about 5 sec if you don't use it).
15:29 manuq erikos_: maybe you can check my patch in your tablet with f17 :)
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15:30 erikos_ manuq, I actually put it in this device but used a mouse so far :)
15:30 manuq so garycmartin, that doesn't prevent scrolling?
15:31 erikos_ garycmartin, I guess it recognizes if you tab once or if you do a scroll movement
15:32 garycmartin manuq: touch and release (with no movement) triggers the toolbar fading in. touching and movement immediately scrolls.
15:32 erikos_ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUt8cUblRO4 here at the end of the video you see it
15:33 manuq garycmartin: ok
15:34 here is a screenshot of current patch: http://dev.laptop.org/~manuq/celestino.png
15:35 garycmartin FWIW: I think the bottom of the display is better for us, keeps clear of tabs and secondary toolbars. When the PDF is first displayed, the extra strip should be displayed so you are given a hint it is there.
15:35 manuq I want the bottom toolbar to overflow centered in the screen, and fits its width to the buttons, like safari
15:35 m_anish manuq, erikos_ sorry, just one more question. What will be the default behavior of clicking a hyperlink to a PDF. Will it download to journal (open as pdf in browse being a secondary option), or just open it straight in a new tab?
15:36 manuq currently, the toolbar appears when the mouse is moved, and disappears when mouse cursor is quiet
15:36 erikos_ m_anish, when you click on a link for a pdf it will open it by default inline
15:36 manuq after one second
15:36 erikos_ m_anish, if you right click it will give you the option with save as etc (palette)
15:37 m_anish, as you see in the mockup there is an overlay with options once displayed
15:37 garycmartin manuq: Oh very nice, and yes +1 to be centred, I think this is a good call for this case.
15:37 m_anish erikos_, okay, so the behavior is being modified here from stroing to journal now being a secondary operation? or the pdf will still be created as an independent journal entry?
15:37 erikos_ manuq, just tested on the tablet, and with touch it works equally well as with the mouse
15:37 manuq, tested with scrolling
15:37 m_anish s/or the pdf/and the pdf/
15:38 manuq erikos_: so, scrolling does the toolbar appear?
15:38 silbe erikos_: where's this mockup?
15:39 erikos_ manuq, yes, shortly (I think it can be adjusted, but it does not feel too bad even the way it is now)
15:39 manuq silbe: we are talking about this patch:
15:39 erikos_ silbe,  http://dev.laptop.org/~manuq/celestino.png
15:39 manuq silbe: http://dev.laptop.org/~manuq/0[…]-PDF-inline.patch
15:40 erikos_: ok!
15:40 gonzalo m_anish, browse with pdf viewer included was in every stable olpc image,
15:40 m_anish manuq, screenshot looks good, how does it work with the browse sharing links -> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/File[…]e_select_link.png
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15:41 silbe erikos_: ah, you were talking about the bottom toolbar (I interpreted "overlay" to mean something different). Thanks.
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15:41 m_anish gonzalo, the question i'm asking is that earlier, when you clicked a pdf link, a journal entry would be saved for the pdf, is that still happening with the new mechanism?
15:42 erikos_ silbe, hmm, no, it is an overlay
15:42 gonzalo m_anish, no
15:42 m_anish gonzalo, then that's a difference in behavior (i'm just registering it)
15:42 gonzalo m_anish, and that behaviour was not good for example for pdf included in the .xol bundles
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15:42 manuq m_anish: let me point you to the email I sent to the list...
15:42 erikos_ silbe, it just currently looks like the toolbar
15:43 silbe erikos_: you are talking about the thing at the bottom that has zoom in/out, prev/next page and keep in Journal, right?
15:43 m_anish gonzalo, also, this will increase the journal entry size of the browse activity by quite a bit IMO, PDF's can be much bigger than plain html pages
15:43 erikos_ yes
15:43 gonzalo m_anish, why save the pdf in the browse entry?
15:43 m_anish gonzalo, then where is it being saved?
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15:44 erikos_ garycmartin, the overall design seems to be appealing to you, looks like touch is as well doable (same behavior as in safari mobile)
15:44 silbe erikos_: ok, so we're talking about the same thing and there's nothing else I haven't noticed.
15:44 manuq erikos_: good
15:44 garycmartin m_anish: the pdf is not saved in the journal entry, just the URL in the history like any other page. Only if the user clicks the save to Journal icon does the pdf get saved into the Journal as a new entry.
15:44 gonzalo m_anish, you have a button to save the pdf in the journal if you want
15:44 erikos_ garycmartin, just at the bottom instead of being at the top
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15:44 erikos_ silbe, could be :)
15:45 manuq m_anish: re sharing links: http://dev.laptop.org/~manuq/celestino2.png
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15:45 erikos_ manuq, I am happy I just tested with touch, is fun to scroll :)
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15:45 manuq erikos_: cool :)
15:46 ok, so this week I will investigate opening in the same tab
15:46 and storing in the session
15:46 and pdf hiperlinks
15:46 garycmartin erikos_: Yep +1 from me, looking great already. One item though, do you find it annoying touch scrolling and have the toolbar appear every time? It makes it more discoverable (than a single touch), but might be annoying after a while (loss of screen space).
15:47 erikos_: (we could tune this type of behaviour at a later date so as not to block)
15:47 m_anish gonzalo, garycmartin somehow I see this as a regression (sorry for sticking to it). Earlier, all my work (eg: viewing pdf files etc.) was automatically stored to the journal. Now we are differing from that. The kid would need to either (1) explcitly save the pdf  or (2) have connectivity to the internet
15:47 manuq garycmartin: I think we should fix that to tune it like the ipad
15:48 gonzalo m_anish, we are moving from saving the pdf and opening in Read, because is not a good workflow right now
15:48 erikos_ garycmartin, yes, I think we can explore and tune the behavior more deeply, at the moment, the overlay comes up when I touch the screen but goes away directly when swiping away, it does feel ok to me so far
15:49 m_anish gonzalo, but that work was being save automatically, and its not the case now
15:49 garycmartin manuq: I'm with you on that, but not many touch users just yet if it's a complicated change.
15:49 gonzalo m_anish, you say all your pages were saved in the journal? i don't think so
15:49 manuq garycmartin: but is a good item to have in the task list
15:50 m_anish: please read http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]ruary/035538.html
15:50 m_anish: I explain the reason for the pdf inline in that thread
15:50 erikos_ ok, I would say we discussed this in depth, more via email
15:50 let's move on
15:50 manuq ok!
15:50 thanks all!
15:51 erikos_ any other item on the GTK3 list?
15:51 m_anish manuq, okay i will. thanks! :)
15:51 erikos_ breathes deeply
15:51 #topic current status of the development cycle
15:51 I sent out a reminder about the upcoming freezes
15:52 please keep those dates in your calendar!
15:52 we landed all the string fixups last week, so we are good on this end
15:52 #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.96/Roadmap
15:53 any questions about this?
15:54 manuq not from my side
15:55 erikos_ slowly starts count down then
15:55 gonzalo i have a question out of program
15:55 to all participants
15:55 erikos_ gonzalo, yes, please
15:55 gonzalo should we start to do activity team meetings?
15:56 garycmartin gonzalo: to try and spur activity updates?
15:56 gonzalo manuq, garycmartin, dirakx , m_anish and all
15:56 m_anish dirakx, ^ :P
15:56 erikos_ gonzalo, we moved the meeting in this one (merged), can you lay out the reasoning behind the new desire, please :)
15:57 gonzalo erikos_, when we was working mostly in sugar, i didn't see a reason to have a separated meeting
15:57 may be we can use this meeting too
15:57 maybe i can send you activity topics to talk
15:58 dirakx +1 to activities meetings.
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15:58 gonzalo thanks dirakx , anybody else? garycmartin, manuq ?
15:58 erikos_ gonzalo, I am open to all suggestions, can you please say a bit more on:
15:58 - audience
15:58 - tasks
15:58 - topic
15:59 gonzalo, than we can maybe see where we best fit it
15:59 gonzalo erikos_, we need try to have activities releases in time to l10n
15:59 dirakx Ariel_Calzada: you might join also.
15:59 gonzalo the last cycle was not good
16:00 garycmartin gonzalo: I would try to participate as much as I can, obviously, but not sure if it won't be us three or four in the meeting unless we have a strong goal/reason to actively try and pull others in.
16:00 gonzalo and _may be_ coordinate tasks in activity land, like de-hippo
16:01 prepare to gtk3.....
16:01 erikos_ gonzalo, ok, so the goal would be to get activities ready before the string freeze?
16:01 gonzalo, the 29th of February
16:01 gonzalo garycmartin, try to include more people should be good....
16:01 erikos_, yes
16:02 grrr
16:02 erikos_ gonzalo, ok, so one thing you could do is organizing as well a online hackfest
16:02 gonzalo, or smaller hacking sessions
16:02 gonzalo, so you meet at a specific time for coordination and then people hack away
16:03 gonzalo, and you maybe summarize at a specific time
16:03 gonzalo erikos_, like a meeting? :)
16:04 erikos_ gonzalo, I thought I was clear that during my meetings nobody is allowed to hack! :)
16:04 gonzalo, however you call it
16:04 gonzalo, in this meeting we talk mostly
16:05 gonzalo, in a hacking session, people might stay around for longer in the same channel and get work done
16:05 gonzalo, just a few thoughts
16:05 gonzalo well, i was thinking in a short meeting, not a long hack session
16:05 erikos_ ok, great
16:06 manuq I like the idea to coordinate a hack day to get the activities on shape before freezes
16:06 erikos_ gonzalo, if you want you can as well append on this meeting
16:06 gonzalo erikos_, ok, then i will send topics to talk in advance
16:06 dirakx, is ok for you?
16:08 manuq, can be done too
16:09 we can send a mail to sugar-devel looking for participants
16:09 manuq ok gonzalo, send the topics and then we'll follow
16:09 gonzalo ok erikos_ plese do the contdown....
16:10 erikos_ thanks gonzalo for coordinating the activity crowd!
16:10 starts countdown
16:10 fünf
16:11 gonzalo forgoten the german numbers.... again :)
16:11 m_anish vier?
16:11 erikos_ yay!
16:12 garycmartin 'yay' is a German number, that's a new one to me ;-)
16:12 m_anish drei (i'm sure i'm getting the spellings wrong)
16:12 silbe zwo :-P
16:12 m_anish lim:x->0 [sin(x)/x] :-P
16:12 erikos_ garycmartin, :)
16:13 hehe good jobs guys!
16:13 gonzalo bye!
16:13 erikos_ thanks everyone!
16:13 #endmeeting
16:13 meeting Meeting ended Tue Feb 14 16:13:52 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
16:13 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-14T15:01:40.html
16:13 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]12-02-14T15:01:40
16:13 manuq thanks all!
16:14 m_anish :)
16:16 Ariel_Calzada dirakx: here i am
16:20 garycmartin Thanks folks, good meeting!
16:21 gonzalo garycmartin, don't run!
16:21 :)
16:21 garycmartin, do you have 10 miinutes?
16:21 garycmartin gonzalo: I'm still here :) 10min sure.
16:21 gonzalo garycmartin, manuq is now maintainer of Laberynth!
16:22 erikos_ gonzalo, again a anew activity?
16:22 gonzalo erikos_, go home ! :)
16:22 manuq Labyrinth
16:22 erikos_ ate a clown this morning
16:22 gonzalo ha ha
16:22 manuq gonzalo: I already told him :)
16:23 garycmartin gonzalo: :) Yea manuq mentioned.
16:23 gonzalo garycmartin, did you saw the patches for clock? can you do a new release with them?
16:23 and i send you a little patch for moon from a uruguayan guy
16:24 he is interested in work in he pendings bugs in Moon activity
16:25 garycmartin gonzalo: clock, yes saw patches, will make a new release asap.
16:25 gonzalo yupi!
16:25 :)
16:25 manuq, we have anything more for garycmartin ?
16:26 garycmartin gonzalo: moon, yes saw patch, but worried about breaking the strings/translations, but I guess they might get fixed in time for the release.
16:26 gonzalo garycmartin, yes is the moment for break translations
16:26 better now than later
16:27 garycmartin, can we help with anything, do you need a Time Machine? :)
16:28 garycmartin gonzalo: OK will do. How about I break all of the info panel translations now? I made a real poor decision inputting the /n/n line breaks into the translations and now have lost control of the layout (I want to make that panel more organised, possibly some buttons with the text in).
16:28 gonzalo garycmartin, i think is a good idea
16:29 or labels
16:29 instead of buttons
16:29 garycmartin gonzalo: Fab, the translators also often end up breaking the .po files as they accidentally remove the line feeds.
16:29 gonzalo it's true
16:30 garycmartin, if you want, fill a ticket, and i can ask to volunteer to work on it
16:31 garycmartin gonzalo: labels yep, I was considering buttons for some information where they might activate changes or notes on the main visualisation.
16:31 gonzalo garycmartin, Moon is using drawables too, right? we need move it to cairo?
16:31 garycmartin, ahh, ok
16:32 and pep8 formating
16:32 garycmartin gonzalo: Yes, Moon cairo has been on my todo since we started discussion the gtk3+ work.
16:32 gonzalo: There are also some extra visual feature I'd like to add to the display when we move to cairo.
16:33 gonzalo great
16:33 are you interested in have help in the moon activity?
16:35 garycmartin gonzalo: I should really try to work on Moon as it keeps me closer to developing for sugar, but happy to land patches (though not very good at formal reviewing and have never used that email patch website the core team moved over to).
16:37 gonzalo garycmartin, no problem wih formality, i will do a review before sending to you
16:37 just a simple mail to know you have it
16:38 garycmartin gonzalo: OK, fab.
16:43 gonzalo: anything else just now?
16:44 gonzalo garycmartin, no, that's all
16:45 garycmartin gonzalo: fab, thanks. Catch you later! --G
16:46 gonzalo garycmartin, bye!
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