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| 15:02 | erikos | #startmeeting |
| 15:02 | meeting | Meeting started Tue Jan 24 15:02:11 2012 UTC. The chair is erikos. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 15:02 | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting | |
| 15:02 | erikos | hey, who is around for the developer meeting? |
| 15:02 | cjl | waves |
| 15:03 | erikos | hey cjl |
| 15:04 | manuq | hello |
| 15:04 | erikos | hi manuq |
| 15:04 | walterbender <walterbender!~chatzilla2001:4830:2446:ff01:5a94:6bff:fe7a:4694> has joined #sugar-meeting |
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| 15:05 | manuq | walterbender: hi! |
| 15:05 | erikos | hey walterbender, great you made it! |
| 15:05 | walterbender | hi |
| 15:05 | it has been a bit crazy for me lately... | |
| 15:06 | erikos | walterbender: ahh, even more as ussual? ;p |
| 15:06 | walterbender | erikos: yes... |
| 15:06 | erikos | manuq: walterbender, cjl: anyone else? |
| 15:07 | ok, let's start | |
| 15:07 | as said in my mail, feature freeze is approaching quickly | |
| 15:08 | let's go through our features | |
| 15:08 | #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.96/Roadmap | |
| 15:08 | please see the red-flag label above ^^^ | |
| 15:08 | is proud of his colored table | |
| 15:08 | #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.96/Feature_List | |
| 15:09 | first item: Gonzalo Odiard: Evince Introspection Bindings | |
| 15:09 | cjl | no gonzalo present |
| 15:09 | erikos | Gonzalo is not hear, but I know this one is 100%, landed in master, I will talk to him about updating the page |
| 15:10 | manuq | ok! |
| 15:10 | walterbender | will like having Read working again :) |
| 15:10 | Cerlyn <Cerlyn!~cerlyn173-12-75-9-miami.hfc.comcastbusiness.net> has joined #sugar-meeting |
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| 15:10 | erikos | Manuel Quiñones: Port Browse to use WebKit through introspection |
| 15:10 | manuq: ^^ | |
| 15:11 | manuq | so, me and erikos advanced a lot in the previous weeks |
| 15:11 | erikos | manuq: can you update the page please |
| 15:11 | manuq: (after the meeting of course) | |
| 15:11 | manuq | #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]ebKit/Development |
| 15:11 | silbe | is here, too |
| 15:11 | manuq | yes erikos, I will |
| 15:11 | erikos | manuq: thanks |
| 15:12 | manuq: are we able to fix all of the items until next Monday? | |
| 15:12 | manuq: or maybe better said: are we confident we can fix all of them in this cycle? | |
| 15:13 | manuq | erikos: we should go again through the list of pending tasks and evaluate |
| 15:13 | erikos | we should priotize them |
| 15:13 | yes | |
| 15:13 | ok, we have two people on it, so I am not worried about it | |
| 15:14 | next one | |
| 15:14 | manuq | the upload, open dialog issue, might be tricky |
| 15:14 | erikos | yes |
| 15:14 | I think that one we should do first | |
| 15:14 | because if we need to change upstream API we should request that *NOW* | |
| 15:14 | as they have the same schedule than we do | |
| 15:15 | them-as-in-webkitgtk | |
| 15:15 | manuq | yes |
| 15:15 | the link palletes, you are in good path? | |
| 15:15 | s/palletes/palettes | |
| 15:16 | cjl | manuq, sometime I'd like a better understanding of the i18n consequences, but not now. |
| 15:16 | Mostly to understand if there is anything we need to work on (e.g. glibc locales), etc. | |
| 15:17 | manuq | cjl: as far as I recall, we have not touched any string |
| 15:17 | erikos | manuq: let's maybe continue with Browse after the meeting |
| 15:17 | manuq | erikos: great, please go on |
| 15:17 | erikos | manuq: because I am npot worried about this one, and we two are working on it |
| 15:17 | cjl | next |
| 15:17 | erikos | Simon Schampijer GTK3 |
| 15:18 | today manuq merged sugar-artwork to master | |
| 15:18 | there is still a bit of cleanup todo with the sugar gtk3 port | |
| 15:18 | I will work on a full list | |
| 15:18 | another item I am sure I will have help from manu (theme, sugar-toolkit-gtk3 :) | |
| 15:19 | I have done API cleanup already | |
| 15:19 | fr sugar-toolkit-gtk3 | |
| 15:19 | Gonzalo Odiard: Global Text to Speech | |
| 15:20 | gonzalo has done a patch, which needs a bit of fine tuning | |
| 15:20 | but I would say it is in reach | |
| 15:20 | I have reviewed one of his patches | |
| 15:20 | and silbe did another round yesterday | |
| 15:21 | so looks like being on a good path forward | |
| 15:21 | Walter Bender: Write to Journal anytime | |
| 15:21 | walterbender: your update please | |
| 15:21 | walterbender | erikos: your email from this morning is more up to date than anything I have to say |
| 15:21 | has everyone seen it? | |
| 15:22 | erikos: I think we should consider using the Bulletin Board key instead of F5 | |
| 15:22 | and I think in the long run, we need to do some rethinking about palettes and toolbars | |
| 15:23 | erikos | walterbender: hmm about the bulletin board key |
| 15:23 | walterbender | I should put together a list of concerns for the design team |
| 15:23 | erikos | walterbender: so, I did not mean to introduce a new key |
| 15:23 | walterbender | erikos: we have that key on every XO, sitting idle |
| 15:24 | and the F5 to Journal is very useful | |
| 15:24 | erikos | walterbender: so the 'search' key which brings you to the Journal normally |
| 15:24 | walterbender | erikos:yes... I use it often |
| 15:24 | erikos | walterbender: will bring you to the detail view of the activity when you press it while you have the activity open |
| 15:25 | so: | |
| 15:25 | walterbender | well, I guess as long as when you are not in an activity it still brings you to the Journal... but it seems overloaded |
| 15:25 | I could be convinced | |
| 15:25 | but that is a decision we can make after some testing... | |
| 15:25 | erikos | yes, when used not in an activity it still brings you to the journal main view |
| 15:25 | walterbender | but we can agree that an accelerator key is a good idea |
| 15:26 | and lets use F5 for the moment? | |
| 15:26 | erikos | F5 is already used as the search-key in non xo hardware |
| 15:27 | walterbender | there are still plenty of other F keys we can use :P |
| 15:27 | but let's stick with F5 for now | |
| 15:27 | and see how it feels | |
| 15:27 | erikos | I can give you the patch and you can try if you want |
| 15:27 | walterbender | erikos: sure... |
| 15:28 | but maybe you can post your gtk-3 version for review? | |
| 15:28 | erikos | I have been thinking a lot about the problematic yesterday |
| 15:28 | the mail is at least 75% of it :) | |
| 15:28 | walterbender | ??? |
| 15:29 | problematic yesterday? | |
| 15:29 | erikos | about the 'write to journal' anytime |
| 15:29 | sorry :) | |
| 15:30 | walterbender | I think we are very much fenced in by some inadequacies in the palette and toolbar designs |
| 15:30 | and for 0.98 I have some ideas to discuss with the design team | |
| 15:31 | erikos | we should take touchscreen into account then |
| 15:31 | walterbender | playing with the smaller screen on the XO 3.0 really got me thinking |
| 15:31 | manuq | walterbender: feel free to open discussion |
| 15:31 | walterbender | yes... but outside of the context of this meeting |
| 15:31 | erikos | if we change the toolbars another time, we should do it in 0.98 |
| 15:32 | so activities can do it with the 0.98 switch | |
| 15:32 | walterbender | I don't think we have too many options re the current problem |
| 15:32 | erikos | otherwise it will be hell |
| 15:32 | walterbender | erikos: yes... but I think we can do a lot automagically |
| 15:32 | erikos | walterbender: yeah, I really went through all the options, and all have downsides |
| 15:32 | walterbender: sure, just in general, now is a good time | |
| 15:33 | and we should take touchscreen into account | |
| 15:33 | walterbender | let's finish up the Feature list and then come back to this... |
| 15:34 | any other ideas re Write to Journal? | |
| 15:34 | FWIW, I put a similar patch into Portfolio for a slightly different purpose | |
| 15:35 | erikos | ok, let's keep on after the list |
| 15:35 | walterbender | it has been tested by a few deployments with no complaints |
| 15:35 | erikos | ok, feel free to point me to that patch so I can have a look |
| 15:35 | walterbender | so as awkward as the palette mechanism is, people seem to be able to work with it |
| 15:35 | erikos | Walter Bende: Activity specific metadata in Journal |
| 15:35 | walterbender | I think we will not land this one. |
| 15:36 | I haven't had time to sit down with alsroot yet | |
| 15:36 | erikos | ok, not brewed enough? |
| 15:36 | ok | |
| 15:36 | walterbender | or to reply in detail to silbe |
| 15:36 | but it is getting so diluted that it no longer has value to the end user | |
| 15:37 | erikos | ok, fait enough, I did not think about that topic neither as I focused on browse/gtk3/write-to-journal/global-speech |
| 15:37 | walterbender | my goal was not just to gather statistics for graduate students, but to give the users feedback |
| 15:37 | erikos | ok, I see |
| 15:37 | cjl | walterbender: I gues sthe initial goals had more t odo wit hevaluators than users |
| 15:37 | walterbender | I don't know how, from an activity developer point of view to do this if the data is external to Sugar |
| 15:37 | erikos | so let's reevaluate for next cycle |
| 15:38 | walterbender | I have some patches to several activities I am testing at the Holmes deployment... |
| 15:38 | should inform our design decisions for 0,98 | |
| 15:38 | but let's can this feature for 0.96 | |
| 15:39 | cjl: my goals have always been for users... but the "competing" approach is not user centric | |
| 15:39 | silbe | walterbender: I'm looking forward to that feedback, and to what data would be useful for the user. |
| 15:39 | walterbender | silbe: yes... I owe you a report |
| 15:40 | silbe: and I haven't yet sat down with alsroot to discuss the possibility of accessing his data from within Sugar | |
| 15:41 | icarito is now known as icarito_away | |
| 15:41 | walterbender | also, I am not sure there is a general solution... |
| 15:41 | but we may be able to provide a level of instrumentation that facilitates activity developers to give feedback to users | |
| 15:41 | next? | |
| 15:42 | erikos | yep |
| 15:43 | Anish Mangal, Aleksey Lim: Proxy configuration | |
| 15:43 | so, i don't have much feedback on that one | |
| 15:43 | silbe | I've been working on fixing up the patch, will post it for review this week. |
| 15:44 | erikos | silbe: nice |
| 15:44 | silbe: did you see the comment from Gary? | |
| 15:44 | silbe: to fold it into the network section? | |
| 15:44 | silbe | since there has not been any consensus w.r.t. to design changes, and the current design closely mirrors that of Gnome (2), I haven't changed the UI (significantly). |
| 15:45 | erikos | silbe: so, I think it would be great to merge it into the network section |
| 15:45 | silbe: no new icon to come up with, is just one :) | |
| 15:45 | silbe | None of our CPs currently have tabs, so it would be a major change to do that. |
| 15:46 | erikos | silbe: why do you need tabs for that? |
| 15:46 | silbe: afair, Gary was not talking about tabs | |
| 15:47 | silbe | In the long run I'd rather switch from our custom CP infrastructure to gnome-control-center and replace ours with their proxy control panel. I don't really want to spend too much time on something that works well enough and will go at some time in the future. |
| 15:48 | erikos | well, I don't think we should base our decisions on 'might change in the future' |
| 15:49 | you always stick with decisions for longer as you think | |
| 15:49 | silbe | erikos: the proxy settings alone are one page, so it wouldn't fit well on the existing network CP. |
| 15:49 | erikos | silbe: the existing CP allows scrolling as well |
| 15:50 | silbe: and you could fold as well options, or what-not | |
| 15:50 | silbe: I would at least try to get feedback from gary | |
| 15:50 | and see what he comes up-with | |
| 15:51 | silbe | erikos: I'm not sure about it, but a quick look at the network CP suggests that at least on some systems, the proxy settings would be completely off-screen and require scrolling to discover them. |
| 15:53 | erikos | silbe: can you please reply to Gary's mail and comment etc, so he knows you are working on it |
| 15:53 | silbe: and find consensus? | |
| 15:53 | silbe | erikos: sure |
| 15:54 | erikos | thanks |
| 15:54 | silbe | (not so sure about consensus, that's often hard when it comes to design issues in Sugar :-/ ) |
| 15:54 | erikos | silbe: at least would be good to have a discussion and give it a chance |
| 15:58 | silbe | erikos: the discussion is already going |
| 15:58 | erikos | silbe: yeah, so please contribute |
| 15:59 | we are done with the list | |
| 15:59 | so next monday is deadline for the Features to land | |
| 15:59 | please give the reviewers a chance todo their duty! | |
| 15:59 | (time wise) | |
| 16:00 | any questions/commenst about the procedure | |
| 16:00 | ? | |
| 16:01 | walterbender | erikos: so you'll post the gtk-3 version of Write-to-Journal-anytime? |
| 16:01 | cjl | Do I need to create gtk3 toolkit PO file? |
| 16:01 | erikos | walterbender: I can do the review of your patch and port over to gtk-3 while going |
| 16:02 | walterbender: we will only land it in toolkit-gtk3 | |
| 16:02 | walterbender: you are with me on that? | |
| 16:02 | walterbender | sure... |
| 16:02 | cjl | http://translate.sugarlabs.org/en/glucose/ does not list toolkit-gtk3 |
| 16:02 | erikos | cjl: good point, is sugar-toolkit-gtk3 already tracked on pootle? |
| 16:02 | walterbender | erikos: I will add the accelerator key to my patch |
| 16:03 | erikos | walterbender: which accelerator key? |
| 16:03 | cjl: can you add that please? | |
| 16:03 | walterbender | F5 :P |
| 16:03 | silbe | walterbender: I though an accelerator key wouldn |
| 16:03 | erikos | walterbender: ahh, I think you did not get my proposal yet :) |
| 16:04 | silbe | walterbender: I though an accelerator key wouldn't work with the current Palette based implementation as the Palette wouldn't stay open? |
| 16:04 | cjl | erikos can you add pootle as committer? |
| 16:04 | erikos | cjl: yes! |
| 16:04 | silbe: right | |
| 16:04 | walterbender | silbe: err... right |
| 16:04 | needs more coffee | |
| 16:04 | erikos | walterbender: in my patch, the search-key/F5 will bring you to the Journal detail page |
| 16:04 | walterbender | erikos: sure... |
| 16:05 | erikos | walterbender: maybe that was not clear from my mail |
| 16:05 | silbe | While the current Sugar UI isn't exactly keyboard friendly, we should make it better, not worse. |
| 16:05 | walterbender | erikos: it was clear... |
| 16:05 | erikos | walterbender: ok |
| 16:05 | cjl | erikos, will try to add t oPoolte (once commit is granted), I lightly screwed up adding a few activities last night, so will be proceeding cautiously. |
| 16:05 | walterbender | erikos: I am just slow off the mark today (as usual) |
| 16:05 | erikos | silbe: and better is? |
| 16:06 | walterbender | erikos: I am going to propose eliminating the detail view altogether for 0.98 |
| 16:06 | and make the main view look more like a Facebook wall as per the original design | |
| 16:06 | cjl | needs to go run the chainsaw. . . |
| 16:06 | silbe | erikos: I haven't seen a design yet that actually is better. |
| 16:07 | erikos | walterbender: sure, but the key can still bring you to the Journal and still 'unfold' an entry when over an activity, right? |
| 16:07 | walterbender | erikos: yes |
| 16:07 | erikos | walterbender: good :) |
| 16:08 | walterbender: I will give you the patch for trying it out, I think it has potential | |
| 16:08 | silbe | walterbender: -1 to eliminating the details view, +1 to more details on the main view (but good luck implementing that while keeping it performant). |
| 16:08 | walterbender | silbe: agreed, it won't be easy... |
| 16:08 | silbe | (but lets discuss that some other time) |
| 16:09 | erikos | ok more comments? |
| 16:09 | questions? | |
| 16:09 | silbe: so you take over all of the 'proxy' feature? | |
| 16:09 | silbe: as well updating the wiki page etc | |
| 16:10 | silbe | erikos: if there's a reasonable chance we can get it landed this cycle, yes. |
| 16:10 | erikos | silbe: (first design and patch are important of course) |
| 16:10 | silbe: ok, great | |
| 16:10 | silbe: is good to have a clear owner | |
| 16:10 | m_anish and alsroot haven't been a lot in the loop :/ | |
| 16:11 | thinks we have 5 members for the countdown... | |
| 16:11 | 5 | |
| 16:11 | silbe | 4 |
| 16:11 | manuq | 5! |
| 16:11 | erikos | heh |
| 16:11 | go manu, go! | |
| 16:11 | manuq | 3.. |
| 16:12 | 2 | |
| 16:12 | 1 | |
| 16:12 | erikos | no manuq no! |
| 16:12 | leave a bit fr the others :) | |
| 16:12 | walterbender: cjl? | |
| 16:12 | silbe | manuq: don't eat all the cookies :P |
| 16:12 | erikos | feels we have to exercise more |
| 16:12 | walterbender | thanks erikos... |
| 16:12 | manuq | heh, I waited and no one counted |
| 16:13 | walterbender | erikos: I need to give you my nut pie recipe :P |
| 16:13 | erikos | walterbender: plese decrement! |
| 16:13 | manuq | thanks all, let's keep the good work, we're almost there! |
| 16:13 | walterbender | walterbender: 0 |
| 16:13 | erikos | hurray! |
| 16:13 | #endmeting | |
| 16:13 | satellit_ | http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/3300 no bookmarks on browse 130.... |
| 16:13 | erikos | #endmeeting |
| 16:13 | meeting | Meeting ended Tue Jan 24 16:13:45 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4) |
| 16:13 | Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-24T15:02:11.html | |
| 16:13 | Log: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]12-01-24T15:02:11 | |
| 16:14 | satellit_ | sorry too soon |
| 16:14 | erikos | thanks everyone for contributing! |
| 16:16 | cjl | bye |
| 16:27 | erikos add pootle top committers on http://git.sugarlabs.org/sugar[…]ugar-toolkit-gtk3 | |
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| 17:26 | erikos | cjl: I added pootle as a comiiter |
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| 18:41 | cjl | erikos: thanks |
| 18:43 | erikos | cjl: anything else you need to get started? |
| 18:43 | cjl: re translations for sugar-tookkit-gtk3 | |
| 18:44 | cjl | Don't think so, I'll try and see how it goes. |
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