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#sugar-meeting, 2012-01-24

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15:02 erikos #startmeeting
15:02 meeting Meeting started Tue Jan 24 15:02:11 2012 UTC. The chair is erikos. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:02 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
15:02 erikos hey, who is around for the developer meeting?
15:02 cjl waves
15:03 erikos hey cjl
15:04 manuq hello
15:04 erikos hi manuq
15:04 walterbender <walterbender!~chatzilla@2001:4830:2446:ff01:5a94:6bff:fe7a:4694> has joined #sugar-meeting
15:05 manuq walterbender: hi!
15:05 erikos hey walterbender, great you made it!
15:05 walterbender hi
15:05 it has been a bit crazy for me lately...
15:06 erikos walterbender: ahh, even more as ussual? ;p
15:06 walterbender erikos: yes...
15:06 erikos manuq: walterbender, cjl: anyone else?
15:07 ok, let's start
15:07 as said in my mail, feature freeze is approaching quickly
15:08 let's go through our features
15:08 #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.96/Roadmap
15:08 please see the red-flag label above ^^^
15:08 is proud of his colored table
15:08 #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.96/Feature_List
15:09 first item: Gonzalo Odiard: Evince Introspection Bindings
15:09 cjl no gonzalo present
15:09 erikos Gonzalo is not hear, but I know this one is 100%, landed in master, I will talk to him about updating the page
15:10 manuq ok!
15:10 walterbender will like having Read working again :)
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15:10 erikos Manuel Quiñones: Port Browse to use WebKit through introspection
15:10 manuq: ^^
15:11 manuq so, me and erikos advanced a lot in the previous weeks
15:11 erikos manuq: can you update the page please
15:11 manuq: (after the meeting of course)
15:11 manuq #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]ebKit/Development
15:11 silbe is here, too
15:11 manuq yes erikos, I will
15:11 erikos manuq: thanks
15:12 manuq: are we able to fix all of the items until next Monday?
15:12 manuq: or maybe better said: are we confident we can fix all of them in this cycle?
15:13 manuq erikos: we should go again through the list of pending tasks and evaluate
15:13 erikos we should priotize them
15:13 yes
15:13 ok, we have two people on it, so I am not worried about it
15:14 next one
15:14 manuq the upload, open dialog issue, might be tricky
15:14 erikos yes
15:14 I think that one we should do first
15:14 because if we need to change upstream API we should request that *NOW*
15:14 as they have the same schedule than we do
15:15 them-as-in-webkitgtk
15:15 manuq yes
15:15 the link palletes, you are in good path?
15:15 s/palletes/palettes
15:16 cjl manuq, sometime I'd like a better understanding of the i18n consequences, but not now.
15:16 Mostly to understand if there is anything we need to work on (e.g. glibc locales), etc.
15:17 manuq cjl: as far as I recall, we have not touched any string
15:17 erikos manuq: let's maybe continue with Browse after the meeting
15:17 manuq erikos: great, please go on
15:17 erikos manuq: because I am npot worried about this one, and we two are working on it
15:17 cjl next
15:17 erikos Simon Schampijer GTK3
15:18 today manuq merged sugar-artwork to master
15:18 there is still a bit of cleanup todo with the sugar gtk3 port
15:18 I will work on a full list
15:18 another item I am sure I will have help from manu (theme, sugar-toolkit-gtk3 :)
15:19 I have done API cleanup already
15:19 fr sugar-toolkit-gtk3
15:19 Gonzalo Odiard: Global Text to Speech
15:20 gonzalo has done a patch, which needs a bit of fine tuning
15:20 but I would say it is in reach
15:20 I have reviewed one of his patches
15:20 and silbe did another round yesterday
15:21 so looks like being on a good path forward
15:21 Walter Bender: Write to Journal anytime
15:21 walterbender: your update please
15:21 walterbender erikos: your email from this morning is more up to date than anything I have to say
15:21 has everyone seen it?
15:22 erikos: I think we should consider using the Bulletin Board key instead of F5
15:22 and I think in the long run, we need to do some rethinking about palettes and toolbars
15:23 erikos walterbender: hmm about the bulletin board key
15:23 walterbender I should put together a list of concerns for the design team
15:23 erikos walterbender: so, I did not mean to introduce a new key
15:23 walterbender erikos: we have that key on every XO, sitting idle
15:24 and the F5 to Journal is very useful
15:24 erikos walterbender: so the 'search' key which brings you to the Journal normally
15:24 walterbender erikos:yes... I use it often
15:24 erikos walterbender: will bring you to the detail view of the activity when you press it while you have the activity open
15:25 so:
15:25 walterbender well, I guess as long as when you are not in an activity it still brings you to the Journal... but it seems overloaded
15:25 I could be convinced
15:25 but that is a decision we can make after some testing...
15:25 erikos yes, when used not in an activity it still brings you to the journal main view
15:25 walterbender but we can agree that an accelerator key is a good idea
15:26 and lets use F5 for the moment?
15:26 erikos F5 is already used as the search-key in non xo hardware
15:27 walterbender there are still plenty of other F keys we can use :P
15:27 but let's stick with F5 for now
15:27 and see how it feels
15:27 erikos I can give you the patch and you can try if you want
15:27 walterbender erikos: sure...
15:28 but maybe you can post your gtk-3 version for review?
15:28 erikos I have been thinking a lot about the problematic yesterday
15:28 the mail is at least 75% of it :)
15:28 walterbender ???
15:29 problematic yesterday?
15:29 erikos about the 'write to journal' anytime
15:29 sorry :)
15:30 walterbender I think we are very much fenced in by some inadequacies in the palette and toolbar designs
15:30 and for 0.98 I have some ideas to discuss with the design team
15:31 erikos we should take touchscreen into account then
15:31 walterbender playing with the smaller screen on the XO 3.0 really got me thinking
15:31 manuq walterbender: feel free to open discussion
15:31 walterbender yes... but outside of the context of this meeting
15:31 erikos if we change the toolbars another time, we should do it in 0.98
15:32 so activities can do it with the 0.98 switch
15:32 walterbender I don't think we have too many options re the current problem
15:32 erikos otherwise it will be hell
15:32 walterbender erikos: yes... but I think we can do a lot automagically
15:32 erikos walterbender: yeah, I really went through all the options, and all have downsides
15:32 walterbender: sure, just in general, now is a good time
15:33 and we should take touchscreen into account
15:33 walterbender let's finish up the Feature list and then come back to this...
15:34 any other ideas re Write to Journal?
15:34 FWIW, I put a similar patch into Portfolio for a slightly different purpose
15:35 erikos ok, let's keep on after the list
15:35 walterbender it has been tested by a few deployments with no complaints
15:35 erikos ok, feel free to point me to that patch so I can have a look
15:35 walterbender so as awkward as the palette mechanism is, people seem to be able to work with it
15:35 erikos Walter Bende: Activity specific metadata in Journal
15:35 walterbender I think we will not land this one.
15:36 I haven't had time to sit down with alsroot yet
15:36 erikos ok, not brewed enough?
15:36 ok
15:36 walterbender or to reply in detail to silbe
15:36 but it is getting so diluted that it no longer has value to the end user
15:37 erikos ok, fait enough, I did not think about that topic neither as I focused on browse/gtk3/write-to-journal/global-speech
15:37 walterbender my goal was not just to gather statistics for graduate students, but to give the users feedback
15:37 erikos ok, I see
15:37 cjl walterbender: I gues sthe initial goals had more t odo wit hevaluators than users
15:37 walterbender I don't know how, from an activity developer point of view to do this if the data is external to Sugar
15:37 erikos so let's reevaluate for next cycle
15:38 walterbender I have some patches to several activities I am testing at the Holmes deployment...
15:38 should inform our design decisions for 0,98
15:38 but let's can this feature for 0.96
15:39 cjl: my goals have always been for users... but the "competing" approach is not user centric
15:39 silbe walterbender: I'm looking forward to that feedback, and to what data would be useful for the user.
15:39 walterbender silbe: yes... I owe you a report
15:40 silbe: and I haven't yet sat down with alsroot to discuss the possibility of accessing his data from within Sugar
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15:41 walterbender also, I am not sure there is a general solution...
15:41 but we may be able to provide a level of instrumentation that facilitates activity developers to give feedback to users
15:41 next?
15:42 erikos yep
15:43 Anish Mangal, Aleksey Lim: Proxy configuration
15:43 so, i don't have much feedback on that one
15:43 silbe I've been working on fixing up the patch, will post it for review this week.
15:44 erikos silbe: nice
15:44 silbe: did you see the comment from Gary?
15:44 silbe: to fold it into the network section?
15:44 silbe since there has not been any consensus w.r.t. to design changes, and the current design closely mirrors that of Gnome (2), I haven't changed the UI (significantly).
15:45 erikos silbe: so, I think it would be great to merge it into the network section
15:45 silbe: no new icon to come up with, is just one :)
15:45 silbe None of our CPs currently have tabs, so it would be a major change to do that.
15:46 erikos silbe: why do you need tabs for that?
15:46 silbe: afair, Gary was not talking about tabs
15:47 silbe In the long run I'd rather switch from our custom CP infrastructure to gnome-control-center and replace ours with their proxy control panel. I don't really want to spend too much time on something that works well enough and will go at some time in the future.
15:48 erikos well, I don't think we should base our decisions on 'might change in the future'
15:49 you always stick with decisions for longer as you think
15:49 silbe erikos: the proxy settings alone are one page, so it wouldn't fit well on the existing network CP.
15:49 erikos silbe: the existing CP allows scrolling as well
15:50 silbe: and you could fold as well options, or what-not
15:50 silbe: I would at least try to get feedback from gary
15:50 and see what he comes up-with
15:51 silbe erikos: I'm not sure about it, but a quick look at the network CP suggests that at least on some systems, the proxy settings would be completely off-screen and require scrolling to discover them.
15:53 erikos silbe: can you please reply to Gary's mail and comment etc, so he knows you are working on it
15:53 silbe: and find consensus?
15:53 silbe erikos: sure
15:54 erikos thanks
15:54 silbe (not so sure about consensus, that's often hard when it comes to design issues in Sugar :-/ )
15:54 erikos silbe: at least would be good to have a discussion and give it a chance
15:58 silbe erikos: the discussion is already going
15:58 erikos silbe: yeah, so please contribute
15:59 we are done with the list
15:59 so next monday is deadline for the Features to land
15:59 please give the reviewers a chance todo their duty!
15:59 (time wise)
16:00 any questions/commenst about the procedure
16:00 ?
16:01 walterbender erikos: so you'll post the gtk-3 version of Write-to-Journal-anytime?
16:01 cjl Do I need to create gtk3 toolkit PO file?
16:01 erikos walterbender: I can do the review of your patch and port over to gtk-3 while going
16:02 walterbender: we will only land it in toolkit-gtk3
16:02 walterbender: you are with me on that?
16:02 walterbender sure...
16:02 cjl http://translate.sugarlabs.org/en/glucose/ does not list toolkit-gtk3
16:02 erikos cjl: good point, is sugar-toolkit-gtk3 already tracked on pootle?
16:02 walterbender erikos: I will add the accelerator key to my patch
16:03 erikos walterbender: which accelerator key?
16:03 cjl: can you add that please?
16:03 walterbender F5 :P
16:03 silbe walterbender: I though an accelerator key wouldn
16:03 erikos walterbender: ahh, I think you did not get my proposal yet :)
16:04 silbe walterbender: I though an accelerator key wouldn't work with the current Palette based implementation as the Palette wouldn't stay open?
16:04 cjl erikos can you add pootle as committer?
16:04 erikos cjl: yes!
16:04 silbe: right
16:04 walterbender silbe: err... right
16:04 needs more coffee
16:04 erikos walterbender: in my patch, the search-key/F5 will bring you to the Journal detail page
16:04 walterbender erikos: sure...
16:05 erikos walterbender: maybe that was not clear from my mail
16:05 silbe While the current Sugar UI isn't exactly keyboard friendly, we should make it better, not worse.
16:05 walterbender erikos: it was clear...
16:05 erikos walterbender: ok
16:05 cjl erikos, will try to add t oPoolte (once commit is granted), I lightly screwed up adding a few activities last night, so will be proceeding cautiously.
16:05 walterbender erikos: I am just slow off the mark today (as usual)
16:05 erikos silbe: and better is?
16:06 walterbender erikos: I am going to propose eliminating the detail view altogether for 0.98
16:06 and make the main view look more like a Facebook wall as per the original design
16:06 cjl needs to go run the chainsaw. . .
16:06 silbe erikos: I haven't seen a design yet that actually is better.
16:07 erikos walterbender: sure, but the key can still bring you to the Journal and still 'unfold' an entry when over an activity, right?
16:07 walterbender erikos: yes
16:07 erikos walterbender: good :)
16:08 walterbender: I will give you the patch for trying it out, I think it has potential
16:08 silbe walterbender: -1 to eliminating the details view, +1 to more details on the main view (but good luck implementing that while keeping it performant).
16:08 walterbender silbe: agreed, it won't be easy...
16:08 silbe (but lets discuss that some other time)
16:09 erikos ok more comments?
16:09 questions?
16:09 silbe: so you take over all of the 'proxy' feature?
16:09 silbe: as well updating the wiki page etc
16:10 silbe erikos: if there's a reasonable chance we can get it landed this cycle, yes.
16:10 erikos silbe: (first design and patch are important of course)
16:10 silbe: ok, great
16:10 silbe: is good to have a clear owner
16:10 m_anish and alsroot haven't been a lot in the loop :/
16:11 thinks we have 5 members for the countdown...
16:11 5
16:11 silbe 4
16:11 manuq 5!
16:11 erikos heh
16:11 go manu, go!
16:11 manuq 3..
16:12 2
16:12 1
16:12 erikos no manuq no!
16:12 leave a bit fr the others :)
16:12 walterbender: cjl?
16:12 silbe manuq: don't eat all the cookies :P
16:12 erikos feels we have to exercise more
16:12 walterbender thanks erikos...
16:12 manuq heh, I waited and no one counted
16:13 walterbender erikos: I need to give you my nut pie recipe :P
16:13 erikos walterbender: plese decrement!
16:13 manuq thanks all, let's keep the good work, we're almost there!
16:13 walterbender walterbender: 0
16:13 erikos hurray!
16:13 #endmeting
16:13 satellit_ http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/3300  no bookmarks on browse 130....
16:13 erikos #endmeeting
16:13 meeting Meeting ended Tue Jan 24 16:13:45 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
16:13 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-24T15:02:11.html
16:13 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]12-01-24T15:02:11
16:14 satellit_ sorry too soon
16:14 erikos thanks everyone for contributing!
16:16 cjl bye
16:27 erikos add pootle top committers on http://git.sugarlabs.org/sugar[…]ugar-toolkit-gtk3
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17:26 erikos cjl: I added pootle as a comiiter
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18:41 cjl erikos: thanks
18:43 erikos cjl: anything else you need to get started?
18:43 cjl: re translations for sugar-tookkit-gtk3
18:44 cjl Don't think so, I'll try and see how it goes.
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