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#sugar-meeting, 2012-01-17

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15:03 erikos #startmeeting
15:03 meeting Meeting started Tue Jan 17 15:03:37 2012 UTC. The chair is erikos. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:03 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
15:03 erikos hey, who is her for the developers meeting?
15:04 seen Gonzalo lurking
15:06 gonzalo: ?
15:09 anyone?
15:10 silbe <silbe!~silbe@cl-1287.dus-01.de.sixxs.net> has joined #sugar-meeting
15:12 silbe hmm, the backlog was rather short ;)
15:12 erikos yes, nobody around :/
15:12 gonzalo hello erikos
15:13 erikos ahh, now
15:13 gonzalo hello silbe
15:13 erikos so, let's make a quick one
15:13 has an appointment in an hour anyhow
15:13 silbe erikos, gonzalo: hi! (sorry for being late, my XO crashed and I'm on 3G)
15:14 erikos #topic gtk3 port
15:14 - so from my side, I have been progressing on Browse
15:14 my current blocker, which I have no clue how to handle is uploads
15:15 webkitgtk uses the standard filechooser
15:15 and we need to specify our objectchooser to pick from the Journal
15:15 sent a mail to the webkitgtk list but no reply, yet
15:15 if anyone has an idea, hints are welcome ;)
15:16 silbe erikos: I have an idea that would apply to sugarising other applications as well, but it's a hack that doesn't really have a place in Browse: we could overload the GTK file chooser.
15:17 Not sure if GTK provides a way to do that, but an LD_PRELOAD hack should work in any case.
15:17 gonzalo yeah, cscott showed this in mvd
15:17 silbe gonzalo: mvd?
15:18 erikos gonzalo: showed what?
15:18 gonzalo mopntevideo
15:18 silbe gonzalo: interesting. do you know if the code is available somewhere?
15:18 gonzalo erikos, a trick to replace the gtk chooser by the objectchooser
15:19 no, but you can ask to cscott
15:19 erikos gonzalo: ahh, would be good to know how he did it
15:19 silbe ok
15:19 erikos but I presume it was a hcak-hack
15:19 gonzalo probably, but can be a last resource if there are not another way
15:20 erikos I will keep on trying to see what upstream (webkitgtk) thinks about it
15:20 silbe erikos: my guess would be that they're willing to accept a patch, but not put the work in themselves.
15:21 erikos silbe: not sure, first I need to find some core dev to talk to ;p
15:22 silbe erikos: heh. try asking lucian, he worked with them before AFAIK.
15:24 erikos so, other items in this area
15:24 we have as well more work to do in the toolkit and in the theme
15:24 would be great to get a bit of a hand there
15:25 gonzalo erikos, may be publish a todo list help
15:26 erikos, i don't know how is the situation now, but another problem was create the env to work
15:26 erikos yeah, todo lists are good, I can do that
15:26 gonzalo jhbuild was not enough
15:26 erikos gonzalo: create the env was problematic for whom?
15:27 gonzalo erikos, when i tried i needed help to have all working
15:27 erikos I don't expect anyone besides the core-core dev to start hacking on such things
15:27 gonzalo and later the repos changed
15:27 erikos gonzalo: is your env working now?
15:28 gonzalo: if not I am happy to help you fix that up?
15:28 gonzalo erikos, yes, i am thinking you wanted attract more people
15:29 erikos gonzalo: I meant more, I need people that start help *now* :)
15:29 not attract people that I need to train to setup their env before
15:29 gonzalo erikos, i am working in activities now, if i can help with gtk3 tasks tell me
15:29 erikos gonzalo: yes, please do
15:30 silbe erikos: the you're out of candidates I guess
15:30 *then
15:30 erikos gonzalo: I will tell you the open tasks later and then we can coordinate
15:30 gonzalo ok, i will read the to do list
15:31 anyway, we should do a more open call
15:31 erikos silbe: you don't have any time you were already saying, correct?
15:32 gonzalo: who do you expect to show up?
15:33 gonzalo erikos, i don't know :(
15:33 dsd
15:33 benzea
15:33 may be if we can ask help with a specific task
15:33 erikos yeah, I would say that makes more sense, to ask help for specific tasks
15:34 when we are stuck
15:34 daniel is on vacation and benzea we have to ask specifically he sometimes have a blue hour the Sunday
15:35 but the meat (or say plants) are with us
15:35 silbe erikos: even if I had time, I'd need some help first to get started
15:35 erikos silbe: well, let's try to not talk theoretically :)
15:36 silbe: yes or no? (just to confirm)
15:37 ok, let's move on...
15:37 # roadmap
15:37 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.96/Roadmap
15:37 Feature and API freeze is soon:
15:37 API/ABI Open Jan 30 2012
15:37 Feature Open Jan 30 2012
15:38 so if you have not done so yet, please submit the patches for your Features
15:38 gonzalo erikos, i will submit a new version this week
15:38 erikos m_anish: what is the status on this one: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]oxy_configuration
15:38 gonzalo: thanks!
15:39 silbe erikos: the patch has already been posted some time ago, but maybe it was just on dextrose@.
15:40 erikos http://patchwork.sugarlabs.org[…]oject/sugar/list/
15:40 silbe https://patchwork.sugarlabs.org/patch/1041/
15:41 erikos I don't think thetre is one here
15:41 silbe #link https://patchwork.sugarlabs.org/patch/1041/ patch for the Proxy configuration feature
15:41 erikos: yes, it was just on dextrose@ for some reason.
15:42 (probably not on purpose)
15:42 erikos ok, feel free to coordinate with your collueges on this one
15:43 anything else?
15:43 silbe erikos: it would be nice if you could take a high-level shot on it and tell me what you think about the approach.
15:43 maybe the patch is good enough for the first iteration. after all it's a self-contained CP module.
15:44 erikos I would prefer if the patch goes to the sugar devel list first
15:44 gonzalo silbe,you already reviewed it?
15:44 silbe gonzalo: yes, I did, see the link above.
15:44 erikos: no problem, I'll just re-send it as-is then.
15:45 erikos and I think there were concerns about the Feature when used with proxy settings set in the image
15:45 looks for the link
15:46 silbe erikos: sorry, I didn't quite grok that. What image?
15:46 gonzalo silbe, the state is "under review" and i see your comments, but i don't know if the patch already addressed your comments
15:47 erikos silbe: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]4:57:04#i_2705608
15:48 gonzalo: ahh yeah, silbe: would be great if the concers could be addressed
15:48 that I don't have to do those again
15:49 silbe gonzalo: no, there's no new version of the patch yet because alsroot doesn't share my concerns. That's exactly why I'd like erikos' take on it.
15:50 erikos heh, great
15:50 alsroot doesn't know much about silbe's concerns
15:50 gonzalo silbe, one problem we have is erikos have already too many tasks
15:51 silbe erikos: it's impossible to say whether it messes up those systems because we don't know what some random deployment might have used. But we simply set the gconf settings used by Gnome et al., so anything that modified those settings should work fine. Besides, we don't do anything if the user doesn't explicitly change the settings.
15:52 gonzalo: same goes with me. And AIUI, erikos will need to review the patch anyway, as I may not Ack it.
15:53 erikos silbe: in any case, whoever is the author of the patch should submit it for review if he want it to be included
15:54 silbe erikos: we've both sent patches authored by someone else from our team before. git copes well with it.
15:55 erikos silbe: I don't talk about git
15:55 silbe: but if a patch does not pass 'internal' review, I don't see why I should particularly care
15:56 espacially if the patch does not have reached me by the process, (yet)
15:56 anyhow
15:56 silbe erikos: I reviewed it as an upstream Sugar developer. The fact that the patch was on dextrose@ rather than sugar-devel@ seems like an accident.
15:57 erikos silbe: no worries, just sort it out in your team, whoever/however you do...:)
15:57 anything else?
15:58 silbe erikos: if you share my concerns, we'll probably have to drop the Feature for this cycle. If you don't, we can merge it, I'm fine with that.
15:58 erikos starts countdown, a short one today
15:59 cjl You guys seem really busy, but do you know anyone I can bug for action on http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]ember/034900.html
15:59 Just a bunch of simple i18n fixes, typos, etc.
15:59 silbe cjl: hmm, I though ajay worked on them. I'll prod him; thanks for the reminder!
15:59 cjl Want it done sooner rather than later so it lands in Poolte.
16:00 thanks
16:00 erikos silbe: great
16:00 tries again: anything else? :)
16:00 gonzalo nop :)
16:00 go erkios, go
16:00 silbe nothing for today
16:00 erikos 3
16:00 silbe 2
16:01 erikos 2
16:01 1
16:01 #endmeeting
16:01 meeting Meeting ended Tue Jan 17 16:01:08 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
16:01 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-17T15:03:37.html
16:01 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]12-01-17T15:03:37
16:01 gonzalo bye!
16:01 erikos looks like silbe likes the countdown :)
16:01 bye
16:02 silbe erikos: it makes more sense for everyone to join in the countdown, so we know nobody is still busy typing
16:02 cjl hey guys, asking as a SLOB member, is Sugar having a problem with getting devs contributing to core feature implementations?
16:02 erikos silbe: ok :) next time
16:03 silbe cjl: we're definitely short on devs.
16:03 erikos has left #sugar-meeting
16:03 cjl I'm not sure what I can do about it, but this is the sort fo things the SLOBs should think about working to improve.
16:04 silbe cjl: and we're especially short on skilled reviewers (or any reviewers at all).
16:04 cjl: IIRC Tomeu had raised that issue before, but without any luck.
16:04 cjl Community building is a part of the SLOB job (IMHO)
16:05 silbe, as you may know, I can be annotingly persistent :-)
16:05 silbe, as you may know, I can be annoyingly persistent :-)
16:05 silbe cjl: perfect ;)
16:05 cjl no promises, but I want to understand what Sugar Labs points of pain are so they can be tackled.
16:06 silbe cjl: personally I believe we need to make Sugar more suitable to developers to attract them (-> dogfooding), but it certainly doesn't hurt to try (probably is even necessary) to attack the problem from multiple sides.
16:08 cjl Off the top of my head, I think the level of concurren tactivity on X)o-1.75 XO-3 etc. is keeping some typical contribs fro mOLPc from having more impact.
16:09 There is no overnight solution, but if you don't start addressing, contribs will never grow into the old-timers you need.
16:12 Part of the challenge is that mentoring by guys like all of you here is a distraction from actually doing dev work, but at some level it is needed.
16:12 Maybe the richest recruiting ground is trying to move some activity devs into glucose hacking.
16:13 silbe cjl: what we could probably use well are some devs from the Gnome camp (already accustomed to the technologies we use, just new to Sugar itself). I don't know how to attract them, though.
16:13 cjl silbe, possibly at Desktop summit or Gnome meet-ups
16:15 that and we talk to our friends at OLPC about  bribing them with XO prototypes. :-)
16:16 silbe cjl: maybe, yeah. though erikos and dsd probably already try that (my personal travel budget got exhausted by Sugar Camp). I guess those at the conferences are already pretty busy themselves.
16:17 cjl: thankfully, OLPC already does that (Contributors Program)
16:24 silbe has quit IRC
16:25 cjl silbe do you know Jean Brefort (irc;jean) AbiWord dev?
16:25 Apparently Jean has done a lot of gtk2 > gtk3 work
16:26 Did tha work for AbiWord.
16:26 I've got some AbiWord karma points built up from hostin their L10n on our Pootle and I've recently taken on making the PO commits to their SVN.
16:27 I can try over there, but you hate to rob Peter to pay Paul, but if it is framed as a push through the Gnome conversion rather than a change in religion we could try for some cross-project mutual assistance.
16:32 silbe what is the most critical need.  patch reviews or what.  What is the best way to point someone at bite-sized taks (of the highest priority)?
16:32 or are there no bite-sized tasks.
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