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#sugar-meeting, 2011-10-03

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15:05 garycmartin Anyone here for a design meeting?
15:06 silbe will listen
15:09 garycmartin manuq: gonzalo: ping?
15:09 manuq hi garycmartin
15:10 garycmartin manuq: Hi! up for a meeting today, or busy?
15:10 manuq garycmartin: sorry we have not finished another meeting
15:10 gonzalo garycmartin: we are finishing our triage meeting, can we do the desing meeting in 30 mins?
15:10 garycmartin OK. No rush. 30min is fine for me.
15:13 manuq garycmartin: thanks!
15:30 garycmartin: sorry again, I think I have to work in the next hours testing memorize in order to get it included in the olpc release
15:31 garycmartin manuq: Memorize was top of my list!
15:32 manuq: or is it just real bugs you are looking for?
15:33 manuq garycmartin: ok, I hope in a few minutes we can discuss Memorize then
15:33 garycmartin: bugs in collaboration mainly
15:33 garycmartin manuq: OK
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15:34 garycmartin manuq: new regressions vs. bugs that might already be in the old version.
15:39 gonzalo: What is the Memorize toolbar order trying to land? Restart, Demo, 4x4 ?
15:44 gonzalo garycmartin: the order in v40 - no more changes. demo, 4x4, restart
15:45 garycmartin damn.
15:46 gonzalo garycmartin: is so bad?
15:46 garycmartin gonzalo: did you catch the corner cases where the restart game button did not disable, or did you remove the disable code?
15:47 gonzalo garycmartin: i am discussing the inclusion of memorize at all in our next release
15:47 the team is not happy with including so many changes at this moment in the release cycle
15:48 today we will do test and have a decision
15:49 if the activity is not accepted we can continue doing changes like crazy :)
15:49 garycmartin gonzalo: and land it in the soon to arrive Sugar bug fix release?
15:53 gonzalo garycmartin: honey activities are not included in sugar release cycles, right?
15:53 garycmartin gonzalo: manuq have just sent you both a quick email screen grab (and a tweaked game-new.svg tidy up).
15:53 manuq checks the email...
15:53 garycmartin gonzalo: yea, but can be a fussy area sometimes...
15:54 s/fussy/fuzzy/ :-)
15:54 gonzalo yeah
15:57 garycmartin, manuq, ok the other meeting finished
15:57 garycmartin: are you ready? :)
15:58 garycmartin #startmeeting
15:58 meeting Meeting started Mon Oct  3 15:58:15 2011 UTC. The chair is garycmartin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:58 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
15:58 manuq garycmartin: gonzalo, the reorder seems very good to me, and a little change
15:59 garycmartin So should we start with Memorize or is that time passed? ;-)
15:59 gonzalo manuq: you read the state of the affairs with Memorize
15:59 manuq gonzalo: yes
15:59 gonzalo garycmartin: can we start with the list of topics we want to talk?
15:59 silbe is confused about "Honey" activities. Isn't honey composed of Fructose and Glucose (plus some other non-sweet components)?
15:59 manuq resume: we have two hours for testing to death in order to include it
16:00 garycmartin manuq: gonzalo did you see my email quick screen grab?
16:00 gonzalo garycmartin: yes
16:01 manuq garycmartin: yes, as I said, i find the reorder better
16:01 gonzalo ok guys, please, before starting with memorize, let us organize the meeting
16:01 topics:
16:01 * Memorize
16:02 * next meetings proposal (gonzalo)
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16:02 gonzalo * discuss manu & gonzalo review?
16:02 what topics you want to talk?
16:02 manuq * redesign of powerd "please confirm" screen (manuq)
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16:03 garycmartin any more?
16:04 manuq that's all from my side
16:05 gonzalo is ready
16:05 garycmartin #topic Memorize toolbar rework
16:06 gonzalo garycmartin: toolbar rework is not a appropriate description anymore :)
16:06 garycmartin :-)
16:06 gonzalo ok, the situation is, we are late, very late
16:06 garycmartin yes for Memorize it had a cascade effect into other issues with the old design.
16:07 gonzalo i can do a change like the reorder of buttons, because is zero risk
16:07 manuq yes
16:07 gonzalo but i am not happy with pushing more changes
16:07 i think for a cycle we already did a lot of changes
16:07 manuq and gonzalo, maybe go back with the string changes for this release?
16:08 gonzalo manuq: the old strings were badly selected (by me)
16:08 garycmartin manuq were you +1 for the toolbar order of Restart, Demo, 4x4?
16:08 manuq gonzalo: ok
16:08 gonzalo and were not present in the last version
16:08 manuq garycmartin: yes, at all
16:09 gonzalo manuq: you think is ok remove the code to enable/disable the restart button?
16:09 garycmartin gonzalo: by 'not happy with pushing more changes' do you not want to remove the Restart button auto enable/disable. It's pretty distracting and removing it means less code not more ;-)
16:09 gonzalo don't want remove this code now
16:10 garycmartin: may be we can fill a ticket and remove it in one month?
16:11 manuq I know gonzalo did an effort to ensure that button is disabled in several cases
16:11 gonzalo testing all the possible interactions is a nightmare
16:12 garycmartin manuq: but not all :-( that would be the but I would file. There are already two cases where it does not disable when it should.
16:12 So that would need changes to fix.
16:12 (verses deleting ~8 lines of code)
16:12 manuq garycmartin: it will simplify code, yes
16:13 the meaning of the button disabled is just "first move", or "game just started"
16:13 is not very useful
16:13 gonzalo garycmartin: i am not worried about these 8 lines, i am worried of enabling another unthought interaction
16:14 garycmartin gonzalo: Hmmm, what was the original behaviour (goes looking for an old memorize)
16:16 gonzalo garycmartin: please! fill a ticket, I can't push more changes now
16:17 garycmartin :-(( OK
16:17 gonzalo the activity will not be accepted and finally all this work will be rejected and we will distribute memorize 36
16:17 i will inlcude your icon and reorder the icons
16:18 the widgets
16:18 garycmartin gonzalo: so should I file tickets for the two cases where the Reset button does not correctly disable?
16:18 manuq garycmartin: it wasn't a restart button in the old memorize!
16:18 gonzalo or a ticket to remove the behavior at all
16:19 manuq so, the current changes are already a very good improvement
16:19 let's try to push it
16:20 garycmartin manuq: Yes there was. Just found an old copy. 'Restart Game' was the first button in the toolbar, and it was active all the time.
16:21 manuq garycmartin: ah, found it, you are right
16:21 garycmartin manuq: just had a different icon (3x3 grid with a grey down arrow)
16:21 manuq garycmartin: yes, I confused it with the current activity icon
16:22 garycmartin manuq: clicking it refreshed the board even if you've not started playing yet.
16:22 manuq garycmartin: yes
16:23 gonzalo garycmartin, manuq: any other ticket you want to fill? :D
16:23 garycmartin gonzalo: I'll file a bug with my patch right after the meeting.
16:23 gonzalo garycmartin: perfect
16:24 garycmartin gonzalo: I'll pull a fresh git clone after this meeting to make sure I'm with your latest changes.
16:25 gonzalo garycmartin, manuq: ok, all the test we can do is welcomed
16:25 garycmartin ok next topic?
16:25 manuq gonzalo, yes, I will start testing right after the meeting
16:25 gonzalo next meetings proposal
16:26 garycmartin #topic Next meeting proposal
16:26 gonzalo i have a idea to discuss
16:26 garycmartin gonzalo: go for it!
16:26 gonzalo now we have the "Design Team" and the "Activity Team"
16:26 but most of the people involved in one is in the other :)
16:27 garycmartin :)
16:27 gonzalo may be we can do one week Design team meeting and the next activity team meeting
16:27 i think we did a lot of design work in the last months
16:28 and we can go toa more relaxed rythm now :)
16:28 and...
16:28 garycmartin gonzalo: sounds good to me
16:29 gonzalo may be we need do a list of homework for the next meeting and come to the meeting with topics prepared
16:29 manuq gonzalo: is good if you mean the discussion in one week serves to the next, design > code > design > ...
16:30 garycmartin There is a team of things on the meetings page, but it's like an ever growing list of things we can only make slow progress on.
16:30 s/team/ream/
16:30 manuq garycmartin: in parallel, after the release of 11.3.0 , I would like to revisit the HIG with you
16:31 garycmartin manuq: +1
16:31 gonzalo manuq, not only code, opne task can be "prepare a proposal mockup to ...."
16:31 manuq garycmartin: and go over the tasks you proposed for the Design Team
16:31 gonzalo: sounds good
16:31 garycmartin manuq: I was thinking we could tackle the HIG as a series of smaller documents. So we could do a couple of pages of text/examples covering the new toolbar guidelines as a first step.
16:32 manuq garycmartin: yes!  I have to document bundles usage in icons, it's in my TODO list
16:33 garycmartin manuq: that way we can have a few cycles where the community reads the smaller document through and agrees or not with the points.
16:33 gonzalo garycmartin: this is a good example of a task is better do out of the meeting, and use the meeting to discuss/review
16:33 manuq garycmartin: sounds good
16:34 garycmartin OK, so it sounds like +1 for alternate weeks of design vs activity team meetings! What should we have next week?
16:35 gonzalo activities! :)
16:35 manuq ok for me
16:35 garycmartin #agreed Alternate meetings for the Design and Activity Team (particularly due to the overlap in membership)
16:36 OK, Activity Team meeting next Monday. No skiving off now!!! ;-)
16:36 gonzalo garycmartin: can you send a mail to sugar-devel to publish it?
16:36 garycmartin #action garycmartin to notify mail-list of change in meetings.
16:37 silbe don't forget the calendar
16:37 garycmartin silbe: I don't have access.
16:37 silbe: It's just Walter I thought?
16:37 gonzalo silbe: who can write in the calendar?
16:38 garycmartin next topic (don't want to eat up Memorize testing hrs)?
16:38 silbe I have no idea :)
16:38 garycmartin #topic Discuss manu & gonzalo review
16:39 gonzalo: do you want to dive into this one?
16:39 manuq with the toolbar catalog updated, we went through oll of them and found some things to make better
16:40 garycmartin manuq: ah yes the email I still haven't replied to yet!
16:40 gonzalo garycmartin: did you discussed it with walter the last week
16:40 ?
16:40 manuq garycmartin: yes, and we send an email last week
16:41 I can move the review to a wiki page
16:41 garycmartin gonzalo: I may have indirectly chatted to Walter about some items. But I know he dived in and made some changes right away.
16:42 gonzalo yes, i saw patches
16:42 manuq garycmartin: yes, he did
16:42 garycmartin manuq: gonzalo: It's a really good review, let me get to it offline and send a reply. Sorry for letting it slip a week.
16:42 gonzalo garycmartin: ok, i think is better do it offline
16:43 manuq garycmartin: thanks for your time!
16:43 your feedback is appreciated
16:43 garycmartin #action garycmartin to follow up on Toolbar review email from last week.
16:44 OK next, yes?
16:44 gonzalo yes
16:44 redesign of powerd "please confirm" screen (manuq)?
16:44 garycmartin #topic Redesign of powerd "please confirm" screen
16:44 gonzalo manuq: what is this screen?
16:44 garycmartin manuq: What were you considering?
16:45 manuq gonzalo: is the screen that appears when you first click the shutdown button in the xo
16:45 first press, not click
16:45 gonzalo ahh
16:45 garycmartin gonzalo: when you hit the power button you get a black/white screen indicating sleep, wake, power off actions.
16:45 manuq yes
16:45 the current design was made to be replaced
16:46 garycmartin hit power button again to shutdown, leave alone to sleep, mouse/keys to wake up.
16:46 manuq and it would be nice to add text to it, it would be localizable
16:46 gonzalo manuq: hmmm
16:47 i think is a image
16:47 garycmartin manuq: it's currently a 1 bit png I think.
16:47 manuq plus, I'm the owner of a ticket for thi s change: http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/11294
16:47 gonzalo what information do you want to put in this image?
16:47 garycmartin manuq: not sure abut adding text, that would be a lot of locale changes.
16:48 gonzalo manuq: do you know where is the mentioned svg file?
16:49 manuq garycmartin: yes but maybe we can do it in the long term
16:49 gonzalo and is really waiting a confirmation?
16:49 garycmartin manuq: yea, I've not seen the svg. I've definitely looked at the bit map at one point (I was wondering if I could make the angles smoother ;-))
16:50 manuq let me find the svg, I have the url here...
16:50 garycmartin gonzalo: It auto sleeps if you leave it for a few seconds, just the wake up, and power off are the extra actions a user could take.
16:50 gonzalo manuq: just tested , and pressing ESC the process was stopped!
16:51 never tried before
16:51 garycmartin gonzalo: correct, any key should wake it
16:51 manuq yes
16:51 garycmartin gonzalo: or wiggle the mouse.
16:51 manuq the svg is in this repo: git://dev.laptop.org/users/pgf/powerd
16:52 and now here too: http://dev.laptop.org/~manuq/pleaseconfirm.svg
16:53 garycmartin http://dev.laptop.org/git/user[…]pleaseconfirm.svg
16:53 gonzalo manuq: well, i am sure you can improve it :)
16:53 but i am not sure about adding text
16:55 manuq I think that the graphics meaning can be improved with text, but I know it will bring a lot of translations
16:55 and yes, the current graphic design can be improved, I will come with a proposal for the next meeting
16:55 or via email
16:56 garycmartin manuq: well worth a little exploring. No critical rush though I guess.
16:56 manuq garycmartin: right
16:57 gonzalo manuq: is possible do a i18n of svg files, but later we will need create the pixmap at runtime
16:57 manuq gonzalo: or at build time
16:58 gonzalo manuq: but we don't want include 60 different pixmaps....
16:58 manuq gonzalo: in the repo, there is a image in pgm format
16:59 gonzalo: yes, the amount of images can be a lot
16:59 the current one has 436K
17:00 adding text to a svg is an easy task, because it's just a text file
17:00 gonzalo ok, anything more?
17:00 manuq no from me
17:01 gonzalo garycmartin: ?
17:01 garycmartin All done I think!
17:01 manuq good!
17:01 garycmartin Time to Memorize...
17:01 manuq yes, let's switch to review & testing mode
17:01 garycmartin 5
17:01 4
17:02 3
17:02 2
17:02 1
17:02 #endmeeting
17:02 meeting Meeting ended Mon Oct  3 17:02:26 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
17:02 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-03T15:58:15.html
17:02 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]11-10-03T15:58:15
17:02 garycmartin Fab, thanks, good meeting.
17:02 manuq thanks a lot garycmartin
17:03 garycmartin gonzalo: I'll go file a Memorize bug, and the add my patch to it.
17:03 gonzalo garycmartin: ok
17:03 manuq gonzalo: I'm back in a few minutes
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17:26 garycmartin gonzalo: my patch has the toolbar reorder as well (git still has previous toolbar order)
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17:28 garycmartin gonzalo: Shall I refer the re-order changes so you can make that step?
17:28 s/refer/revert/
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