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#sugar-meeting, 2011-09-16

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12:58 m_anish dirakx, meeting in a couple of minutes?
13:02 dirakx1, ^
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13:04 SeanDaly m_anish: hi my understanding is, will take place in 1 hour
13:05 m_anish SeanDaly, I was talking abt the AC weekly meeting 13UTC fridays
13:05 SeanDaly m_anish: ah i thought you meant SLOBS
13:11 walterbender SeanDaly: SLOBs starts in about 110 minutes
13:12 SeanDaly walterbender: hi walter ok will be there, will stay "tuned" to IRC channel til then
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14:10 garycmartin Ping, any one here for the meeting?
14:11 icarito_web garycmartin: yes its in 50 min
14:11 garycmartin icarito_web: lol, thanks :)
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14:17 m_anish icarito_web, we were also 'supposed' to have the AC weekly meet an hr ago :P
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14:53 raffael Hello everybody!
14:54 bernie raffael: hello
14:54 rolls out of the bed yawning
14:55 raffael bernie: not fair ... I am in UTC+2
14:57 bernie it's 8am here
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14:57 bernie raffael: UTC+2? east europe?
14:58 garycmartin ee
14:58 raffael Not exactly, Berlin, Germany - at the border to the east
15:01 cjl wonders if raffael = dirakx
15:01 cjb no
15:02 cjl ok
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15:02 walterbender hello all
15:02 icarito_web hi
15:02 garycmartin walterbender: hi
15:03 walterbender I think we have a quorum, so lets get started
15:03 #start-meeting
15:03 meeting Meeting started Fri Sep 16 15:03:05 2011 UTC. The chair is walterbender. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:03 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
15:03 walterbender Can the slob members please ack?
15:04 is present
15:04 cjb ack
15:04 icarito_web present
15:04 walterbender bernie?
15:04 SeanDaly hi all
15:04 walterbender alsroot?
15:05 CanoeBerry?
15:06 alsroot is here
15:06 bernie walterbender: present
15:06 walterbender OK. we have quorum
15:06 I prepared a link:
15:06 #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/O[…]inutes-2011-09-16
15:06 icarito_web: I didn't get a chance to extract the info from the Local Lab reports...
15:06 so let's start with Teams?
15:07 #topic team reports
15:07 Cerlyn <Cerlyn!~cerlyn@173-12-75-9-miami.hfc.comcastbusiness.net> has joined #sugar-meeting
15:07 walterbender It was an interesting exercise this morning extracting all of the goals and concerns into one big table
15:08 my overall impression is that our biggest issues are resources and feedback
15:08 before we begin discussing, let me just say thanks to all of the team leaders for submitting such thoughtful reports
15:09 cjl walterbender: I would suggest a section on reports detailing interteam interactions.  I tried to do that in my last section.  It's a way o fseeing differnt perspectives on how they interact.
15:09 garycmartin walterbender: (I should make a SOM of the reports later)
15:09 walterbender cjl: yes... good point... a lot of requests to interact with the Design Team especially
15:09 garycmartin: it'd be interesting
15:10 cjl If requests on one side outweig hresources or interest on the other side, ti requires action.
15:10 SeanDaly hee hee or lack of interaction with Marketing Team
15:11 walterbender maybe we can quickly walk through the short-term goals first? Any red flags?
15:11 cjl SeanDaly: The Translation Team would be happy to host PR materials for Marketing.
15:11 walterbender #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/O[…]#Short-term_goals
15:12 SeanDaly cjl: that would be extremely helpful
15:12 wernerio <wernerio!~webchat@jita.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting
15:13 wernerio Hello to all, regards from Chile
15:13 walterbender regarding the education team. there are a couple of reports that Claudia and I are working on
15:13 with lots of feedback from the various deployments
15:13 cjl Walter, I'd like to understand connection between EdTeam content sharing and PlatformTeam software sharing.  I think ther eis a TransTeam opportunity in there somewhere.
15:14 icarito_web welcome wernerio glad you could make it
15:14 wernerio :)
15:14 cjl I.E. do .xol library packages belong in ASLO.
15:14 walterbender cjl: yes... there are several design/platform/infrastructure/edu topics (all of which need i18n)
15:15 cjl: it is more than that... sharing activity output... classroom experiences...
15:15 cjl And the long-term issue of what is the best "Poolte-equivalent" for content.
15:15 walterbender cjl: and there is moruki's book project
15:15 cjl yes
15:15 walterbender we really need a bit of glue for uploading from the Journal a la Scratch
15:15 bernie cjl: i think we should get rid of xol support in sugar, it's hardly used and it's not functional
15:16 cjl ok, bernie.  maybe tag that for follow up.
15:16 walterbender bernie: there is the detail of how we support content vs the need to support content
15:16 bernie: I think the need to support content is there and .xol is just a placeholder
15:17 alsroot thinks that maybe we need to collect all such Qs to discuss them later, on a make-a-glue-between-teams meetings
15:17 walterbender alsroot: +1
15:17 alsroot: maybe a specific meeting on this topic
15:17 bernie walterbender: most content comes in the form of documents in the journal, like pdf.
15:18 cjl bernie for instance this is a TransTeam long term goal 'Work on providing i18n tools and training to deployments to facilitate the sharing locally developed Sugar-based materials across deployments / languages."
15:18 walterbender bernie: ta projects... and lots of metadata
15:18 bernie walterbender: xol's are being used just to bundle up some html pages... which could  be done with a journal object (like a microsoft chm file, for example)
15:18 walterbender bernie: e.g. what did I use this for, with whom? how well did it work?
15:18 cjl Ther eis a lot of meat there, more than we can chew today.
15:19 walterbender bernie: it is a bigger topic than just ditching .xol, which I think we have consensus on
15:19 SeanDaly: what is the status of the new website?
15:19 bernie cjl: indeed, i guess we can't discuss this topic now
15:20 icarito_web what can we discuss now?
15:20 dogi has quit IRC
15:20 SeanDaly Christian has prepared alpha mockups (lorem ipsum text, placeholder images). He has asked me to organize harvesting/creating content for the site
15:20 icarito_web every topic is long
15:21 walterbender icarito_web: today is to identify topics for more detailed discussion
15:21 SeanDaly re website, I took 5 mnutes at SugarCamp last weekend to show mockups
15:22 garycmartin bernie: in Paris we talked again about supporting zip bundles in Browse, so the content is manageable via the Journal.
15:22 walterbender SeanDaly: can you post them?
15:22 icarito_web ok can we quickly mention teams that did not respond? seems bug squad and deployment team are dormant?
15:22 walterbender icarito_web: important point
15:22 SeanDaly walterbender: will do, they will be here: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/M[…]ting_Team/Website
15:22 bernie garycmartin: +100
15:22 cjl To mix metaphors and aphorisms, I think we have enough descriptions from the blind men t oknow we are touching an elephant, how you eat an elephant is "one bite at a time".
15:22 icarito_web also development team
15:23 walterbender icarito_web: erikos and I were discussing the development team yesterday
15:23 cjl icarito_web: I would not call bug  squad dormant while the Wellington testers are stil lactive.
15:23 walterbender icarito_web: I was arguing it was dealing with two topics: releases, which he and silbe are on top of and future, which the Prague meeting is looking at
15:24 icarito_web cjl: do they need or use the bug squad infrastructure?
15:24 walterbender icarito_web: but he argued we shouldn't compartmentalize
15:24 cjl Maybe better integration is needed with tabitha for Bug Squad.
15:24 SeanDaly website: alpha mockup online on Christian's personal site here: http://www.christianmarcschmid[…]arlabs/index.html
15:24 walterbender in any case, the fact that the team is not operating as a unit is a concern.
15:24 icarito_web i'm not saying nobody is hunting for bugs or doing development, just wondering about the organs
15:25 walterbender icarito_web: re deployment team, it is non-existent right now... maybe it should be subsumed by the local labs?
15:25 #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/M[…]ting_Team/Website
15:25 #link http://www.christianmarcschmid[…]arlabs/index.html
15:26 icarito_web walterbender: maybe
15:26 cjl walterbender: Since there aren't too many sugar-only non-xo deployments fo scale, I think Local Labs and interaction with OLPC covers deployment.
15:27 But again, how to tie it together.
15:27 walterbender cjl: yes and no... if it is not integrated with the rest of SL, then the other teams don't have a way to know what is happening... the feedback issue again
15:27 cjl acked
15:27 walterbender finding a way to close the loop with deployments is *the* key issue
15:28 icarito_web: can we have a LL meeting to discuss this?
15:28 icarito_web there is a need of a coordination between local labs
15:28 alsroot btw, is there LocalLab <-> Deployment strong relation?
15:28 icarito_web alsroot: precisely not necesarily
15:28 walterbender alsroot: I think in most cases, but not every case
15:29 icarito_web walterbender: i think it would be wise, we have wernerio, raffael and gustavoibarra with us today
15:29 alsroot I mean if there are big deployments, they might be represented by Local Labs on SL level
15:29 walterbender alsroot: some deployments, e.g., Peru, are very hard to get feedback from since they operate in their own world
15:29 icarito_web: I am sure you have an opinion :P
15:30 icarito_web yes it seems walterbender is a bottleneck in some instances
15:30 cjl Another follow-up topic identified, but I'd happily listen to Local Labs that are here, now.
15:30 icarito_web ;-)
15:31 walterbender icarito_web: I am the bottleneck? can you please elaborate? was I 'licking cookies'?
15:31 #action follow up meeting to look at content support (including activity output and commentary)
15:32 #action follow up meeting re content for the new website
15:32 icarito_web walterbender: I think there may be a situation of confusion with your role at OLPC
15:32 walterbender #action follow up meeting re deployment team <--> local labs
15:32 icarito_web local labs expect their executive director to represent them
15:33 this has been raised by gabriel as well
15:33 (gabriel from uy)
15:33 walterbender icarito_web: maybe you can explain how advocating for Sugar at OLPC is a conflict?
15:34 cjl icarito_web: I believe Walter may often the one be approached , but in my experience, he acts as a conduit, not a bottleneck.
15:35 icarito_web when there are requirements from the deployment, ED should point them to the local team instead of offering OLPC services
15:36 also the other way around, when the local lab demands action regarding a specific problem, (root access in uy) walter has the channels for communicating
15:36 walterbender icarito_web: I don't recall any instance of my doing that... but perhaps Gabriel knows something I do not know
15:36 icarito_web: in that specific case, I have talked myself blue to Ceibal... but I cannot move mountains
15:37 icarito_web: I suppose my suggesting to OKIDATA to speak with AC about Sugar support was a mistake?
15:37 I should have referred them to Ceibal Jam?
15:38 but in fact, AC was already speaking to them and I just further encouraged them
15:38 icarito_web: in any case, this is off topic unless you think that I am the reason we don't get feedback from deployments
15:38 icarito_web walterbender: I don't know about that specific action - in my opinion, SL should refer to local labs by default
15:39 walterbender icarito_web: and I don't know of any instance except the one I just mentioned where that has not been the case
15:39 icarito_web we're talking strategy for local labs so this is something present in the peru report under constraints
15:39 walterbender: for instance training in peru that you did
15:39 walterbender icarito_web: Peru is a great example of where I am trying to get the ministry to work with the local lab on translation
15:40 SeanDaly receiving, collating, reporting feedback from multiple deployments is a lot of work; to start out we would probably want small but standardized queries?
15:40 icarito_web that is a pretty clear example of parachute
15:41 walterbender icarito_web: and trying to tie in SL central, i.e., cjl's team
15:41 icarito_web walterbender: but you must admit your i claims to "trying to get the ministry" have not been very effective
15:41 walterbender icarito_web: I don't understand that expression
15:41 icarito_web we need to find sustainable solutions outside the ministry
15:42 cjl icarito_web: We need both
15:42 icarito_web we're organizing a sugar camp in lima in November, I think Sugar Labs should find sponsorshipt to travel for local labs coordinators
15:42 walterbender icarito_web: I have no argument there,  but (1) I don't see how I am the problem as per your earlier assertion -- please explain; and (2) I think it cuts both ways... the local labs are not always cooperative to the ministries either
15:43 icarito_web cjl: yes we need a valid counterpart to the ministry
15:43 in this sugar labs can help validate local labs
15:44 walterbender icarito_web: for example, after three years of asking the MoE to take Quechua and Aymara seriously, and in highlighting the great work in Puno, they -- with pressure from the new administration -- are ready to act. But the community has not responded to their or our requests :P
15:44 icarito_web walterbender: please don't take it personally - my mistake for not being clear - it is SL Central which is the bottleneck and this board the means to advance the situation
15:44 walterbender icarito_web: I am willing to take it personally in order to improve...
15:44 icarito_web walterbender: actually we do respond, preparing an event for november
15:45 walterbender icarito_web: news to me... cjl, are you in the loop?
15:45 icarito_web we are moving this event on every level
15:45 walterbender icarito_web: that is great news...
15:45 alsroot if I got it right, the major idea, icarito_web is talking about, that LocalLab needs to be the first point to work with when we are talking about sugar related cases in this region
15:45 icarito_web we need to validate and provide resources for the local labs to take leadership in these issues
15:45 cjl icarito_web: I am working on prepping everything needed (spanish annotated PO files, glibc locales, etc.
15:45 walterbender alsroot: that is always been the plan...
15:46 alsroot: but to make it actionable, we need the deployments to agree...
15:46 icarito_web cjl: we're working to find funds to invite you
15:46 bernie is silent for a change, but interested in the current topic
15:46 walterbender alsroot: I have a hard time convincing them
15:46 icarito_web walterbender: for deployments to agree we need a level of validation of the local labs
15:46 walterbender alsroot: but not through lack of trying or because I am trying to generate business for OLPC (or AC)
15:47 at least from the OLPC perspective, it is my observation that they would like nothing better than more local lab activity
15:47 icarito_web: validation is important...
15:47 icarito_web in fact I propose now that we use the funds the sugarlabs has to bring cjl to peru in November, if he agrees
15:48 walterbender icarito_web: it would help if SL knows more about your meeting
15:48 icarito_web our objective is to build a dextrose based image including translations to quechua, aymara, shippibo and some local content
15:48 cjl icarito_web: The fundraising is a kind thought, but I would self fund if I'm available.
15:49 cjb icarito_web: unfortunately SL doesn't have much money lately
15:49 I think we decided it's a few thousand, unrestricted?
15:49 icarito_web cjl: that is great!
15:49 cjl: we already have committed coordinators for every language
15:49 cjb (gets into the resources part of the agenda, perhaps)
15:49 icarito_web walterbender: preliminary working document is at http://openetherpad.org/sugarcamp
15:50 acaire (laura vargas) has assumed leadership of organizing the event and we already have one sponsor
15:50 walterbender icarito_web: can you move it to the wiki?
15:50 SeanDaly yes, the resources issue...
15:51 icarito_web yes resources are another constraint for local labs as well
15:51 walterbender before we go into the resources issue, can we finish up with the validation issue?
15:51 alsroot walterbender: icarito_web: can we form an new #action, and maybe to use it instead of "deployment team <--> local labs" -- /me is just willing to be sure about the sources of discussed issue
15:51 icarito_web walterbender: no problem we're working on this and will announce real soon, dates are already set for Nov 18,19
15:51 walterbender the typical response I get from deployments about local labs is that they (deployments) don't trust their own local people...
15:52 cjl walterbender: "all politics is local"
15:52 walterbender so how do I convince .pe or .uy to take their own people seriously, instead of always going to corporate solutions?
15:53 icarito_web walterbender: the 1 answer I can think of is that SL does trust their own local people
15:53 cjb icarito_web: obviously; but the question is, how does that help?
15:54 walterbender icarito_web: I am a bit talken back that you would suggest that we don't
15:54 icarito_web in any case in a mature setting it seems local people finally get contracted by corporate / global NGO
15:54 but it shuold be the other way around in my opinion
15:55 walterbender icarito_web: SL central can continue to try opening doors... and having great results from working locally has got to matter in the long run
15:56 icarito_web: but it seems to have made little difference in .uy to date :(
15:56 icarito_web: I don't know what the answer is...
15:56 icarito_web walterbender: in the case of Peru it is the moment to generate this change as everything is in the air
15:56 we need to propose the same globally and locally
15:57 not compete
15:57 walterbender icarito_web: absolutely... and the first thing that SL central did was to point the MoE back to locals...
15:57 cjl icarito_web: I would suggest that the Aymara Quechua effort would be an excellent opportunity to show value-added.
15:57 icarito_web we have a meeting next week with the government
15:57 walterbender cjl: agreed
15:57 icarito_web we will present a proposal for working with them
15:58 as Sugar Labs local lab
15:58 cjl And t othe extent I can, I will emphasize local solutions.
15:58 icarito_web cjl: yes the new government is especially open to this, we hope to show with an image we can do this
15:58 cjl but we can discuss that mor eoff-line
15:59 walterbender icarito_web: maybe you can explain later how SL central can do things differently... but we should move on
15:59 #topic resources
15:59 a quick minitopic is GSoC $ from 2010
15:59 we need to decide whether to put it into general funds or let the mentors spend it
16:00 cjb I think we should stick to our decision to use it for general funds, and reconsider for next year
16:00 walterbender IMHO, we are needing more general funds right now -- speaking  both as a mentor and a SL member
16:00 I need to get back to Bradley with our consensus on this topic
16:01 cjb shall we vote?
16:01 walterbender sure...
16:01 cjb: can you draft the question?
16:01 cjb MOTION: Keep the GSoC 2010 mentor funds as our general funds, as previously decided, revisiting the decision of whether to give some/all of them to the mentors themselves next time we do a SoC.
16:02 walterbender any further discussion before we vote?
16:02 +1
16:02 icarito_web why are we deciding again on this?
16:02 bernie cjb: +1
16:02 alsroot +1
16:03 walterbender icarito_web: we finally got the mentor $ from google from 2010 and we need to decide what to do with it
16:03 icarito_web i think it was mentor's decision
16:03 walterbender icarito_web: that is not the way the contract is written with google
16:03 cjb +1
16:03 bernie icarito_web: yeah, i thought it was settled already
16:03 cjb bernie: icarito_web: it was settled, and that Bradley sent us mail saying "hey I wanted to check what you want to do with these funds"
16:03 walterbender bernie: we settled it for 2009, not 2010
16:04 icarito_web walterbender: i think mentors should decide but also that they already had decided
16:04 cjb icarito_web: no, mentors have never decided what to do with GSoC money for SL.
16:04 icarito_web i'm +1 for using the funds
16:05 cjb ok; motion passes
16:05 walterbender cjb: at one point, 2009, we decided we wanted to put the money into an SL travel fund
16:05 icarito_web ok
16:05 cjb walterbender: oh, that's interesting
16:05 walterbender cjb: but it was a one-off decision
16:05 cjb I imagine it will be spent on travel again this time too, but it's not restricted to be spent that way
16:06 walterbender cjb: speaking as a mentor, I think that unrestricted is better
16:06 In any case, we have some fungibility with the few funds we do have...
16:06 bernie btw, a few days ago someone (christoph?) asked how much funds we do have... which reminds me that we still don't have a treasurer
16:07 icarito_web how much $ do we have available?
16:07 bernie shall we try to volunteer christoph or whoever asked the question? :-)
16:07 walterbender bernie: Hey... I thought yo had voluneteered
16:07 bernie icarito_web: we could use the ledger command line tool to figure it out
16:08 cjl http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]ember/014074.html
16:08 bernie walterbender: no, i had just volunteered to approve expenses up to... $500? can't remember the limit.
16:08 cjl bernie Can it be done in the Finance activity :-)
16:08 icarito_web +1
16:08 bernie cjl: haha, why not
16:09 walterbender bernie: I thought you were analyzing all the ledger stuff too...
16:09 icarito_web bernie: i think you would be perfect for the role, and already accepted responsibility for part of it ;-)
16:09 walterbender bernie: you have all the data... let's put it into Finance and alsroot can figure out how to share the Journal entry :)
16:09 bernie walterbender: damn, i'm framed :)
16:10 cjl thinks dogfooding the financial stuff would be an interesting exercise.
16:10 icarito_web bernie: you should come too to peru, we need you to build the image for us!
16:10 bernie i wish we had someone less geeky than me for this role, but anyway...
16:10 walterbender bernie: now that you work for Corporate America, you have to do these sorts of things :)
16:10 icarito_web i mean teach us how to do it
16:11 bernie icarito_web: i really wish i could... i'd love to see peru.
16:11 icarito_web set aside November 18,19 and we'll see how to make it happen
16:11 walterbender icarito_web: dsd and pbrobinson have published pretty clear instructions on making builds
16:11 cjl icarito_web: If by iamge you mean OLPC image, try to get gonzalo maybe
16:12 walterbender anything else we should cover today?
16:12 #action bernie to put our financial house in order
16:12 #action walter to report motion to SFC
16:13 icarito_web walterbender: yes we need to iterate before the event, there is a content and translation team preparing for this
16:13 walterbender bernie: you could do the finance stuff in TA... I made a plug in for soles
16:13 wernerio What will happen with the Local Labs updates??  Just for the record??  Any reflections around them??
16:14 walterbender wernerio: we had been talking about it in general terms...
16:14 icarito_web wernerio: +1 what do you propose?
16:14 walterbender wernerio: but I would love to hear some specifics from Chile
16:14 #local labs
16:14 #topic local labs
16:15 bernie sorry, i need to go to work now... i'll read the rest later
16:15 JT4sugar bernie, When the OpenQwaq server gets put up by Sugarlabs@NDSU this may be a perfect test case for you to set up a Dextrose build classroom that way you can collaborate with them and they can see visually what you are doing. Just a thought
16:15 walterbender ciao bernardo
16:15 bernie truly sorry, i was interested in the topic
16:15 wernerio well, there are some prospection in the short, medium and long race
16:15 cjl bernieWe'll wait to assign you more jobs :-)
16:15 icarito_web wernerio: another meeting was proposed for local labs, maybe we should have one per local lab? argentina, uruguay and colombia reports are still missing
16:15 bernie JT4sugar: where is this going to be?
16:16 JT4sugar: in north dakota?
16:16 wernerio I do not know if SL central has its vision to share
16:16 JT4sugar bernie, Still working on it but Dogi set up a VM for it
16:17 wernerio walterbender:  we don't have much specifics from Chile
16:17 JT4sugar bernie, Intent is for it to end up in Sugar Labs infrastructure
16:17 wernerio we are hoping to close a 100 XO purchasing
16:18 walterbender wernerio: the issue we had discussed earlier was exactly how can SL central improve to help local labs...
16:18 icarito_web wernerio: reading your report, you mention lack of contact and documentation from other local labs
16:18 walterbender wernerio: specifically, how can I do a better job of advocating for the local labs when I am in front of the powers that be?
16:19 wernerio that can permit us to deploy Sugar in a better way.  We did a pilot last year with SoaS, very beautiful experience, but not a good solution, its not managable nor scalable
16:19 walterbender icarito_web, wernerio: OLPC maintains a decent amount of material in .es from the various Latin deployments
16:20 icarito_web wernerio: SL central has some resources maybe we can use to address your concerns?
16:21 wernerio icarito_web, wernerio: in the olpc or the SL labs, materioal  related to deployments are abundant around tutorials or resources
16:22 I exppect to see what's gopping on insede the classroom o directly with teachers, what are they doing in language or science class
16:22 walterbender wernerio: that is only found in blogs at the moment...
16:22 wernerio after years of deployments in other countriies, there's not much to look at
16:23 walterbender wernerio: that is one of the reasons I want to be able to upload activity output with metadata: a teacher can say: this is what my kids built and what worked, didn't work
16:23 wernerio: there is some great material in individual teacher blogs... but finding it is very difficult
16:24 wernerio: you feedback is re-enforcing my belief that we have a systemic problem.
16:24 cjl +1
16:24 icarito_web wernerio: one of our goals in peru is to open and promote the usage of our blog
16:25 wernerio walterbender:  yes, we should have some way to sistematize the deployment experiences, so we can build on top
16:25 icarito_web there simply isnt a centralized resource
16:26 walterbender wernerio: there are some blogs (including somos azucar) in the planet
16:27 wernerio: but not enough of those from teachers
16:27 icarito_web wernerio: do you propose something specific? would a specialized planet for educational material work?
16:27 walterbender wernerio: I follow individual teachers, e.g., Rosamel
16:27 wernerio: but it hasn't scaled well
16:28 wernerio are these concerns related to  the Eeucaion Team??
16:28 maybe it's a topic to work there
16:28 walterbender wernerio: one of the concerns, yes
16:29 wernerio: and specifically highlightred in the report we are writing
16:29 icarito_web wernerio: maybe we need a form or some sort of template for sharing experiences? can you or walterbender, or education team do that?
16:29 wernerio icaritoweb:  don't have much to propose, we are doing so little, we don't have machines ...
16:29 walterbender to me it is the topic of the meeting on content we had already agreed to
16:29 alsroot icarito_web: wernerio: in case of centralized resource, would be useful to have it on http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Deployment_Team/* pages
16:30 ..centralized resource to share deployment experience
16:30 walterbender alsroot: we should at least cross reference the OLPC materials
16:30 icarito_web its not clear teachers will find it there
16:30 wernerio alsroot:  ok, we will try to feed that wiki page
16:31 alsroot walterbender: in any case, it might be a good chance to make it more systematic, wiki.laptop.org is not a good expample for that
16:31 cjl In the TransTeam report "There are happily a wealth of materials being developed in local languages by local deployments, unhappily very few of those materials are being upstreamed by re-basing on the most-common English i18n formats. The Education Team and Local Labs should take the lead in identifying suitable materials and advocating for i18n into a format that will work with our existing...
16:31 ...infrastructure and resources (i.e. English msgids). "
16:31 walterbender icarito_web: it is clear that they won't :P
16:31 icarito_web alsroot: without leadership the Deployment team is dormant
16:32 walterbender icarito_web: which is why I was proposing a merger with local labs...
16:32 alsroot wernerio: Wiki Team coordinator is a good start point for ideas how to make it more systematic
16:32 cjl Semantic wiki stuff can possibly help, but it isn't easy.
16:32 alsroot icarito_web: well, if people will work on systemic deployment resources (w/ Wiki Team), it is a good start point
16:32 SeanDaly another solution, sticky topics in the forum-to-be for teachers on new website
16:32 icarito_web ok so we can adopt the Deployment team as organ for coordinating local labs
16:33 walterbender icarito_web: it was put on the table and we agreed to meet later to discuss it (and other possible solutiuons)
16:34 icarito_web shall we wrap for now and agree on a new meeting specifically for local labs? local labs should dicuss their objectives / reports and make specific recommendations to SL central, IMO
16:34 walterbender so... alsroot, will you take charge of organizing the content meeting?
16:35 and icarito_web, will you take charge of organizing the local-labs/deployment meeting?
16:35 alsroot walterbender: content in what sense, to centralize deployment related info?
16:35 wernerio icarito:  I agree, at least here, our Local Lab is a deployment team  :)
16:35 icarito_web yes I can do that, wernerio raffael gustavoibarra lets dicuss this on list, ok?
16:36 walterbender alsroot: I think a general discussion to see what the extent of the needs are...
16:36 wernerio ok
16:36 walterbender icarito_web: please include North Dakota, etc.
16:37 alsroot walterbender: sure, but would be useful if you elaborate your ideas a bit :)
16:37 walterbender icarito_web: and the deployments without local labs, e.g., Nicaragua, Mexico, etc
16:37 alsroot *idea for "content"
16:37 JT4sugar walterbender, Think it might be good idea to try and schedule Slobs meeting at least every other week for a while so we can work through these reports and build capability for SL Central, Local Labs, and teams. Much to chat and strategize about.
16:37 alsroot JT4sugar: +1
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16:38 walterbender alsroot: I think we have touched on many different ideas in the team reports and in today's discussion: everything from ebooks to teacher blogs to a repository of work from the kids
16:38 cjl JT4sugar: SLOBS "town hall" meetings
16:38 icarito_web walterbender: yes I need contacts for the DC , North Dakota, and Paraguay local labs
16:38 alsroot walterbender: ok, got it. sure, will try
16:38 raffael Before the meeting ends. May I ask one question from germany here - may I continue with my learning studios project under the aegis of SL?
16:38 walterbender icarito_web: we can sort that out offline
16:39 raffael: can you send a specific proposal to SLOBs? exactly what you'll be doing under the Sugar name?
16:39 SeanDaly raffael: erikos (Simon) told me at SugarCamp would like to discuss that with you
16:39 icarito_web raffael: +1 from me, are you asking for official project status?
16:40 walterbender maybe we can meet in two weeks to (1) discuss Raffael's proposal; and (2) the results of the content and deployment meetings?
16:40 icarito_web raffael: we're interested in seeing that project succeed and replicate here
16:41 walterbender raffael: yes
16:41 icarito_web raffael: we're working in the same direction, count me in your team for that project
16:41 alsroot walterbender: imho, would be useful to have per-week SLOBS meetings, as JT4sugar proposed, until we sort out all issues regarding team/labs reports
16:41 walterbender alsroot: OK with me...
16:41 alsroot: even if we don't have a quorum, we can talk
16:42 icarito_web alsroot: I think you are right
16:42 alsroot: in fact every team / lab should have a meeting for them
16:42 walterbender icarito_web: most do... or will again as a result of this fact-gathering process.
16:43 design meets every monday
16:43 edu every wednesday
16:43 activities is up and running again
16:43 SeanDaly marketing was tuesdays, but aside from working on new website we have problem of no strategy, previous one went down in flames
16:44 walterbender so let's meet again next friday, the 23rd?
16:44 icarito_web walterbender: a meeting with the board so that we can talk and give/receive feedback
16:44 walterbender icarito_web: ?
16:45 icarito_web: is that not what we are doing right now?
16:45 icarito_web i meant every team should be allocated one meeting , and we shuold have one per week until we cover every team
16:45 its simply too ambitious to think of covering uruguay and peru in one meeting, let alone other local labs
16:45 walterbender icarito_web: in theory, each team is suppose to have representation and report at each SLOBs meeting
16:46 cjl icarito_web: I think a town hall style wiht input from multiple teams is good, even if primary topic is one team/lab
16:46 walterbender icarito_web: in practice, this is the first time we did it in a long time
16:46 icarito_web well, i'm proposing each team should be put into the agenda in turns
16:46 not just a general meeting
16:47 walterbender icarito_web: seems rigid... why not ask the teams who want longer discussions to ask for a timeslot?
16:47 icarito_web: why wait 10 weeks for wiki team to be able to speak up?
16:48 icarito_web i think SL central should provide the leadership and the interest here
16:48 cjl icarito_web: I can see asking for a meeting focus, but if it is one team at a time, only that team will show up :-(
16:48 icarito_web it shuold not be exclusive, i.e. many teams will require only little time to be on same page, others maybe the entire meeting
16:48 i.e. other items can be on agenda
16:49 walterbender icarito_web: well, SL central is all of us...
16:49 SeanDaly here's how to get all teams to show up: announce as agenda item that marketing would like 90% of budget :D
16:49 walterbender and every community member is asked for input each time we schedule a meeting
16:50 SeanDaly: 90% of 0 is 0 :P
16:50 SeanDaly :D
16:50 icarito_web ok so instead of scheduling arbitrarily, lets invite teams to request a timeslot
16:51 cjl plans t olook for the L10n tie-in at every meeting, but doesn't need t obe front-and-center for any.
16:51 icarito_web i'll do that
16:51 are we done?
16:51 SeanDaly I wouldn't mind pitching a new strategy to the community then having it voted on by the SLOBS..
16:52 JT4sugar Everyone take a look at www.teleplace.com and look at the OpenQwaq server. This commercial technology was open sourced in May(Originally- Alan Kay was part of  project-built on Squeak and Croquet). North Dakota Local Lab- NDSU Comp Sci Dept working on getting set up in Sugar Labs infrastructure hoping this may become the glue that allows us to collaborate in a new enhanced way and stitch together our resources in a way they can b
16:52 e leveraged down to the classroom. Will keep posted as it evolves in next month hopefully.
16:52 walterbender icarito_web: go for it... in the meantime, please schedule the LL/Deployment discussion :P
16:53 icarito_web will do
16:53 walterbender SeanDaly: love to hear more...
16:54 icarito_web SeanDaly: yes please
16:54 walterbender needs to go soon...
16:54 any other pressing business?
16:55 icarito_web +1 SL Germany's request
16:55 also SL Peru would like to request the next slot after that
16:55 walterbender icarito_web: we need a formal motion before voting
16:56 icarito_web i did not think we needed a vote to accept a timeslot request?
16:56 walterbender icarito_web: or was that +1 to discussing it...
16:56 icarito_web lets just accept it?
16:57 walterbender icarito_web: so you were saying +1 to SL Germany discussion at the next meeting...
16:57 icarito_web #info agenda item for Friday 23th meeting - SL Germany feedback and project proposal
16:57 alsroot SeanDaly: would be useful if intermediate/working variants will be posted on a wiki (and let other pople know where it is)
16:57 icarito_web same time next week?
16:57 JT4sugar Suggest next week meeting is on reports. After we all read we should identify constraints-teams-local labs that need most help and begin slotting them on future dates(portion of meeting for these(45min) and other portion for other slobs business(15min) always adjustable. If we work from bottom up(Weaklist link approach) then all benefit and community gets stronger.
16:58 SeanDaly alsroot: variants of what?
16:58 walterbender #agreed same time next week (23rd at 15UTC)
16:58 alsroot SeanDaly: "a new strategy"
16:59 SeanDaly alsroot: mentioned in my report. I will pitch it to community and work up a wiki page on it
16:59 icarito_web SeanDaly: we're very interested in strategy proposals
16:59 walterbender OK. we can finalize the agenda off line.
16:59 thanks to all who took the time to write reports and to all who came to discuss them.,
17:00 until next week...
17:00 3
17:00 2
17:01 1
17:01 icarito_web thanks all
17:01 walterbender #end-meeting
17:01 meeting Meeting ended Fri Sep 16 17:01:08 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
17:01 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-16T15:03:05.html
17:01 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]11-09-16T15:03:05
17:01 wernerio Regards to everyone!!
17:01 raffael Bye from germany ... see you next week
17:01 garycmartin walterbender: thanks Walter, I'll post a SOM of the reports later.
17:01 SeanDaly bye all
17:02 cjl icarito_web: we xcan touch base on L10n stuff by mail.
17:02 Or I'll hang out if you want to chat
17:03 icarito_web cjl: by mail is better to follow up
17:03 cjl ok
17:03 icarito_web cjl: i'll kick of a discussion with the local language coordinators and cc and introduce you
17:04 cjl we need t omake some decicisons about Aymara ISO-639 codes tha are technical but impt.
17:04 You'll want to invite Amod Batto in Nov as well
17:04 You'll want to invite Amos Batto in Nov as well
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17:05 cjl icarito_web: after introductions, I'd like discussion ot happen on l10n lsit.
17:10 alsroot icarito_web: btw, about making images for that initiative, how much efforts you can push to it, ie, if there are some spare resources, we can help w/ popularizing Sugar in not regular Sugar world (fedora/olpc), I mean having Trisquel as a based distro
17:11 cjl alsroot: I think they will need to be signed OLPC releases.
17:11 Aymara and Quechua is for Peru
17:12 alsroot icarito_web: you need images signed exactly by OLPC?
17:14 icarito_web: heh, btw is it about XO deployment?
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17:19 cjl alsroot: It is possible that something likelanguage packs (or unsigned releases) would be useful for L10n testing.
17:20 alsroot cjl: I got filling that icarito_web was talking about non-XO deployment. if it XO based one, there is alsmost no reasons to reuse something different than fedora/olpc under sugar platform
17:22 cjl alsroot: We'll have t osee what icarito_web says, The L10n infrastructure doesn't care about what build uses it :-)
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17:24 icarito_web alsroot objective is XO image first
17:24 we'll aim at having it signed but are proposing deactivating security
17:25 if olpc can sign, the better!
17:25 alsroot icarito_web: so, it is about XO based deployment. then you need to reuse olpc tools to create images
17:25 icarito_web we need to do whatever we use for dextrose
17:26 alsroot icarito_web: afaik, the only difference is another repo w/ rpms w/ dexrose sugar instead of olpc's one -- but m_anish knows more
17:27 icarito_web alsroot: currently xo but we're proposing standardizing on sugar in all primary
17:27 computers
17:27 currently medium term goal
17:28 cjl icarito_web: When quechua and Aymara L10n is complete, it should be possible for OLPC to generate a signed point release if it is needed by OLPC Peru.
17:29 m_anish icarito_web, alsroot Dextrose uses the fedora packages that olpc builds use, only sugar related packages might be/are different. Also, dextrose-intl images aren't signed... If we need to sign them, we'll need the keys from olpc
17:29 cjl Again, Poolte doesn't really care.
17:29 m_anish I hope that answered the question (/me doesn't fully understand the context)
17:30 cjl m_anish: You don't get keys from OLPC and in some cases, local deployments are the ones signing (I think).
17:30 OLCP signs builds 9point reelases) but doesn't hand out hte signing keys.
17:31 That is a later build issue, not an early concern fo rgetting the L10n done.
17:31 m_anish cjl, yep
17:31 cjl except t othe extent tha it would be nice to have a few Xo's with dev-keys to install MO files for L10n testing.
17:32 m_anish cjl, fwiw for dx-py, we used the keys pyeduca gave us, which I believe were passed from OLPC (ruben, IIRC) bernie , [scs] will have a better idea
17:32 cjl, anyway its a later issue
17:32 (sa you said)
17:33 *as
17:33 cjl That and if localizers are going to work on XO's, dual-boot with dev-key is useful to install Virtaal as a PO editor
17:34 m_anish: The key chain of custody may be as you describe, I'm not an expert on that.
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