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#sugar-meeting, 2011-08-05

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13:58 walterbender hey manuq: sorry about the confusion re Distance. Hate to have wasted your time.
13:59 manuq walterbender: no problem at all!
13:59 walterbender manuq: but it did make me realize I had a regression...
14:00 manuq: what do you think of the various box icons?
14:00 manuq: I am still not in love with any of them.
14:00 manuq I like #3 from Gonzalo
14:00 walterbender manuq: but I think we have a good solution re the "sparkle" star
14:00 manuq walterbender: yes
14:00 walterbender looks
14:01 manuq walterbender: we can expect some useful review from Gary
14:01 walterbender sees that bernie is not here yet :P
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14:02 walterbender we are also expecting sebastian
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14:04 walterbender alsroot: while we wait for our quorum, shall we discuss your -1 re the Core certificate
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14:04 alsroot walterbender: sure
14:04 walterbender alsroot: that was the section I had given the least thought to... just added it as I thought that it filled a gaping hole
14:04 alsroot: but I am by no means married to it.
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14:04 walterbender alsroot: you make good points.
14:05 alsroot in that case, has all time decentralized direction :)
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14:05 walterbender alsroot: so we could either leave development team contributions under the Contributors X section or craft some new language
14:06 Contributors X was an idea to let each team determine their own critera
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14:06 walterbender note that already we have a mechanism for local labs to give certifications
14:06 cjb hi!
14:06 I thought we were doing 11am for some reason
14:06 walterbender hi cjb
14:07 alsroot walterbender: well, thats also my issue point. because what is dev team? is it about core devs or platform devs?
14:07 walterbender maybe it is and I am mistaken.
14:07 checks
14:07 cjb > I'd like to propose a meeting on Friday, 5 August, at UTC 15 (11 AM EDT
14:07 walterbender cjb: you are correct. I said 11am
14:07 so we are all early :)
14:07 alsroot walterbender: ie, should all dev teams mambers follow all bureaucratic stuff to be a blessed dev team members or not
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14:08 walterbender alsroot: +1
14:08 alsroot doesn't have clear picture what is the current dev team is
14:09 walterbender alsroot: so we can ditch the last paragraph and just assume dev team works like the other teams
14:09 alsroot walterbender: +1
14:09 walterbender alsroot: I assumed that erikos and silbe were the coordinators
14:10 alsroot walterbender: in that case current dev team is exactly core dev team (ie, glucose/fructose related procedures)
14:10 my point is to avoid assuming that we have only activities and core modules
14:11 walterbender alsroot: agreed. but I think that an activity developer specific certificate is pretty easy to do and there is explicit demand.
14:12 alsroot: maybe it should be an example of a Sugar X Contributor certificate, where X == Activity Developer
14:12 then we have a completely decentralized approach, but with an example of a community standard
14:13 alsroot walterbender: +1, in that case might be useful not per-team certs but per function: Activity cert and Platform cert
14:13 walterbender alsroot: but in that case, who is the certifying body?
14:13 alsroot: I chose teams because it is an existing structure within the leaves of the organization.
14:14 alsroot walterbender: well, as I said, I'm personally not happy w/ having current dev team as a core dev team..
14:14 *the only dev team we have
14:15 walterbender alsroot: they are more of a release team
14:15 devel is must more loosely organized
14:16 alsroot: I could see a PYGI/GTK3 "team" emerging, for example
14:17 alsroot walterbender: agree, because we are loosing any non-core (at least for current time) dev efforts
14:17 *non-core and non-activity
14:18 walterbender: so, for me. the original question is about what dev team we have (and after that, what team will issue dev certs)
14:19 walterbender alsroot: my new language: http://fpaste.org/ihGH/
14:20 alsroot: I side-step your question
14:21 cjl sees he is being told he's certifiable, not for the first time. . .
14:22 walterbender cjl: I figure we need as many carrots as we can get as we don't have many sticks :P
14:23 cjl :-)
14:23 alsroot walterbender: yeah, at least dev team question is more difficult to solve and would be better to avoid the mess
14:23 though such dev team question exists (at least for me)
14:23 walterbender meanwhile, FWIW, alsroot, I think you have earned a merit badge...
14:24 cjl walterbender: Is there a design of "a certificate suitable for framing" yet?
14:24 walterbender cjl: not that I know of...
14:24 would like to give Turtle Art certificates out as well.
14:24 cjl Would it be the Education team judging content development 9e.g. wiki-slices, lesson plans, etc.)?
14:25 walterbender cjl: as currently proposed, yes
14:26 cjl We need to update http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/T[…]_Team/Coordinator to include dirakx and possibly gonzalo
14:26 walterbender cjl: go for it
14:27 cjl And develo-p a metric for "L10n cert"
14:28 walterbender the discussion of the list was my guidance for writing up the Activity Developer criteria... maybe start a similar discussion on the i18n list?
14:28 cjl walterbender: I think i18n on the part fo the developer is assumed, L10n is another mattter
14:29 walterbender cjl: I should get a certificate for all the work I did on l10n for the currency plugin for TA :P
14:30 made svg files for 6 currencies and counting
14:30 cjl My thought is to chart the strings / words submitted in Poolte and find a reasonable cutoff number as a start.
14:31 walterbender: You are clearly certifiable in any sense of the word.
14:31 :-)
14:32 walterbender: Maybe the Translation team can offer special merit notations to devs that have gone above and beyond in i18n
14:33 walterbender maybe we should issues badges for people's websites instead of paper certificates :)
14:33 cjl like wiki barnstars?
14:34 walterbender cjl: in fact, it would be cool to even link to the contributions that led to certification... would make sense in today's world
14:35 and if we do use paper, we should add a QR with a link
14:37 cjl QR?
14:39 walterbender those little square barcodes that contain URLs
14:39 cjl Ah, 2D codes
14:39 walterbender promised to write a reader for the XO
14:40 cjl walterbender: Have you looked for open-source barcode reading software yet?
14:40 I'vwe used many bar-code systems i nlab automation, but alwaoys commercial or vendor supplied products
14:41 walterbender cjl: I think I found one... haven't looked at the code yet.
14:41 cjl ok
14:42 always though code 3 of 9 sounded Borgish
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14:50 walterbender cjl: I am looking at http://zbar.sourceforge.net
14:50 Python libraries
14:51 I've only gotten so far as to unzip the tar.gz file
14:53 cjl walterbender: is it gtk2+ or GTK3+
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14:54 walterbender gtk2+ AFAIK
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14:58 icarito hi meeting is now, correct?
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14:59 cjl walterbender: Did you see http://techcrunch.com/2010/09/[…]+%28TechCrunch%29
15:00 icarito walterbender: your meeting time is now according to email - 15 UTC
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15:00 walterbender icarito: yes... welcome
15:00 cjb here too
15:00 walterbender bernie should be here too, but whereas we have a quorum...
15:00 icarito yay glad I could make it
15:00 walterbender #startmeeting
15:00 meeting Meeting started Fri Aug  5 15:00:58 2011 UTC. The chair is walterbender. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:00 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
15:01 walterbender alsroot and I already talked a bit about certificates, so maybe start there?
15:01 #topic certificates
15:01 I sent an email earlier, but have revised my draft proposal since then.
15:02 icarito reading backlog
15:02 walterbender #link http://fpaste.org/ihGH/
15:02 the gist of alsroot's feedback, as I understood it, is more decentralization
15:02 icarito_web <icarito_web!~webchat@jita.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting
15:03 walterbender so I tried to recast the program based on where authority is delegated to the teams
15:03 and I use Activities as an example
15:03 (based on a discussion on the lists)
15:03 #link http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]-July/013736.html
15:04 It is not clear whether the teams are the right place for this, but I don't know where else to delegate the responsibility.
15:04 note that this is independent of the certification process we approved for local labs several months ago
15:04 icarito_web teams are largely inoperant atm
15:05 i.e. deployment team, even activities team
15:05 walterbender well, some are and some are not
15:05 cjb sounds good to me, either walterbender's initial version or the decentralized one
15:05 icarito_web although I was glad to hear about activity team meeting happening
15:05 walterbender icarito: the activity team is very active, but perhaps not officially under that umbrella
15:06 icarito_web it sounds to me like the only dev cert we need is activities
15:06 walterbender icarito: and the design team meets almost weekly
15:06 icarito_web but the activity team structure is not active (not to say activity developers are not)
15:06 walterbender icarito as does the release team
15:06 and i18n is very active under cjl's leadership
15:06 icarito yes a team is as active as its coordinator
15:07 walterbender icarito not sure about that... but no matter
15:07 icarito but team coordinators are sometimes missing
15:07 walterbender can we wrap up the topic at hand? any comments/suggestions re the proposal?
15:07 cjb would vote +1 on it as-is
15:08 walterbender cjb: would you make a motion? (and please specify which version?)
15:09 cjb let's use your revision
15:09 could you send it to IAEP now?
15:09 walterbender icarito: certificates may serve as 'carrots' in different areas, e.g., i18n and l10n
15:09 cjb and then we can quote it in the vote
15:09 walterbender cjb: will do.
15:09 icarito i just read the final wording and I think its ok
15:10 walterbender cjb: sent
15:11 icarito i was concerned about the requirements for amount of time for contributions and also about the body that makes the decision but I think its open enough to discuss that when it pops up
15:11 walterbender icarito: I think I removed that in the latest draft
15:11 icarito: BTW, has SL Colombia issued any certificates yet?
15:11 icarito nope Local Labs are wary of certificates in general
15:11 walterbender you guys were the furthest down that path
15:12 icarito that is my impression
15:12 maybe we can issue some in peru
15:12 walterbender icarito: hmm... as I recall, you guys were the ones pressing for the program to begin with.
15:12 icarito is relocating for a season to peru with the entire family, driving a week accross southamerica with baby and all
15:13 walterbender icarito: wow
15:13 cjb MOTION: We will award certificates to developers/contributors following the description in http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]ugust/013885.html
15:13 walterbender seconded
15:13 icarito we were pressing for a services portfolio, certificates was one of the items but it was not very well received by other local labs
15:13 cjb +1
15:13 walterbender +1
15:13 alsroot +1
15:14 icarito +1
15:14 walterbender motion passes.
15:14 #action walter will solicit votes from our absent members
15:14 icarito a question is how do we rotate the coordinators of teams?
15:14 is for each team to decide but sometimes there is no team
15:14 walterbender icarito: maybe a new topic on teams in general?
15:15 icarito i have no specific proposal on the topic
15:15 walterbender icarito: but could we first discuss the NDSU proposal?
15:15 icarito so i dont want to waste the boards time
15:15 walterbender #TOPIC NDSU SL proposal
15:15 thinks it is an important topic
15:16 JT4sugar I am here along with Dr. Kevin Brooks Chair of English NDSU-IRC nic Kab
15:16 walterbender has everyone had a chance to read the NDSU proposal?
15:16 JT4sugar has been the primary liaison with them
15:16 JT4sugar: want to comment?
15:17 JT4sugar They have been involved with a SoaS project for last year at elementary school
15:17 They would like to move forward to larger Fargo community
15:17 A local Sugar Labs allows them to partner with Comp Sci Dept
15:18 cjb walterbender: sorry, I don't think I've seen it.  Where is it?
15:18 JT4sugar They also have a XO contributors program proposal in an will be hopefully working on activities fro Sugar/XO
15:19 walterbender cjb: I'll resend it.
15:19 JT4sugar kab, Would you like to pick up Dr. Brooks with quick intro
15:19 kab Thanks John.
15:20 The "SL at NDSU" would help institutionalize our project--useful for visibility and long term funding.
15:20 walterbender cjb: sent
15:21 kab The CS people have been interested but slow to join; they have some great edugames they have designed and wan to test in Sugar.
15:21 I could go on, but maybe people have questions.
15:21 cjb walterbender: I see the original went to "slob@sugarlabs.org"
15:21 walterbender cjb: it was resent to slobs
15:22 cjb ah
15:22 are you sure?
15:22 nothing matching NDSU in my slobs box before just now
15:22 icarito walterbender: same here as cjb
15:22 just reading now
15:23 walterbender cjb: I got it... but I was CC'd. Maybe it bounced
15:23 sorry about that
15:23 alsroot got both, to slobs@ and iaep@
15:24 cjb it mentions an attached XO lending request, but I don't think it's attached
15:24 walterbender cjb: I didn't forward that just now as I didn't think it was relevant
15:24 icarito looking over http://fargoxo.wordpress.com/ interesting material, would be nice to aggregate in planet.sugarlabs.org
15:25 walterbender cjb: was trying to minimize the clutter
15:25 JT4sugar cjb, Just forwarded you email with both
15:25 cjb oh, it was resent, but the resend didn't go through.. huh, I wonder why
15:26 walterbender icarito: good point re the blog. I would make including it in the planet a criteria for acceptance :P
15:26 icarito yes it also mentions a MOU
15:27 walterbender icarito ^it ?
15:27 kab We would be happy to inhabit your planet.
15:28 icarito walterbender: the email you just fwd
15:28 welcome kab :-)
15:29 walterbender icarito the MOU was attached... tell you what, I'll pastebin it.
15:29 icarito just reading at the blog i'm +1 only would like for them to have http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/S[…]Labs:_a_community in mind
15:29 ahh sorry
15:29 reads
15:31 ok looks good
15:31 walterbender http://fpaste.org/GwFR/
15:31 Any further comments?
15:32 cjb looks good so far!
15:32 walterbender hopes that this will bring NDSU into closer orbit with the rest of the community (sticking with the planet metaphor)
15:32 icarito it would be nice if we as a board could remind the existing local labs about http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/S[…]Labs:_a_community and ask the ones who havent to appoint a representative and such
15:32 walterbender icarito +1
15:33 icarito regarding NDSU looks like we can give a warm welcome ;-)
15:34 JT4sugar icarito, Appoint a representative to sit on SLOBS or report in?
15:34 icarito we come in peace
15:34 walterbender motion: Accept NDSU's proposal to create a Local Lab.
15:34 icarito JT4sugar: just a pointperson so we know who to contact and can ask what's up
15:34 JT4sugar icarito, Good point
15:35 walterbender anyone willing to second my motion?
15:35 kab It's plenty warm here this summer, but thanks for the warm welcome.  I'd be happy to sit on Slobs and/or serve as point person.
15:35 icarito JT4sugar: the MOU just reminded me about it ;-)
15:35 kab cool, no need to sit in slobs every time but of course you are welcome and encouraged as is every member of the community ;-)
15:36 +1 from me
15:36 walterbender #action attach the MOU to the meeting minutes
15:36 cjb walterbender: ok, seconded
15:36 +1
15:36 walterbender +1
15:36 alsroot +1
15:36 walterbender passed.
15:36 Welcome NDSU!!
15:37 #action walter to execute the MOU on behalf of SL
15:37 I will also solicit feedback from our absent members.
15:37 cjl is glad t onote that ND is finally a state as well,  Ithink
15:37 kab Thanks everyone.  Looking forward to meeting more of the community.
15:37 JT4sugar Appreciate the opportunty to collaborate with NDSU on a more official basis and look forward to the community benefits
15:37 walterbender Wow. We are a well-oiled machine today
15:38 kab We are a state of mind, perhaps not a state in the union.
15:38 walterbender icarito, alsroot shall we take a few minutes to talk about teams now? Unless there is other board business?
15:38 notes that MA is a Commonwealth, not a State
15:38 alsroot walterbender: +1, we need at least to start this talk..
15:39 icarito_web i just live in one big island called southamerica ;-)
15:39 walterbender #topic teams
15:39 It has been more than 3 years since we launched Sugar Labs. At the time we emphasized a decentralized model, of which teams were an important part
15:40 but maybe time to revisit this?
15:40 alsroot has an issue point w/ Dev Team goals
15:40 walterbender I am still in favor of decentralized teams but maybe they need some shepherding?
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15:40 icarito +1 looks like we have an abundance of silent teams
15:41 lots of overlap and little leadership
15:41 not complaining just thinking out loud
15:41 walterbender seems we have two issues on the table: leadership and the goals of a specific team
15:42 icarito also what is the benefit for teams to officially be and mantain status as a SL Team...?
15:42 yevlempy has quit IRC
15:42 icarito seems these tasks get done without the structure
15:42 cjl walterbender: catherding, not shepherding
15:42 icarito maybe we should generalize the idea of reminding Local Labs about http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/S[…]Labs:_a_community to include Teams as well
15:43 cjl: yes exactly
15:43 that is asking for status report and appointment of coordinators by say a specific date
15:44 alsroot icarito: +1
15:45 cjl The Translation Team (via me) has made quarterly reports to SLOBS since the idea first floated 6 months ago.
15:45 alsroot though  not appointing but asking current cooridinator(s)
15:45 and sorting out how many teams we have w/o any coordinator
15:45 walterbender I can ask for a report in time for our next meeting, say in two weeks?
15:46 icarito: can you do the same for local labs?
15:46 icarito we need a way to temporarily "stash" teams/local labs that are non responsive
15:46 walterbender icarito: why?
15:46 icarito for one thing because its misleading in the website, don't you think?
15:46 also because I think SL should have resposive organs
15:47 or not have them at all
15:47 i dont mean to suspend / remove but only to reflect the actual status
15:47 walterbender icarito: OK... as much as I hate the metaphor, I see it somewhat as a "cookie-licking issue"
15:48 alsroot yeah, thats really good point.., ie, having only well working parts and add/remove new/old in the process but keep current set all time responsible
15:48 walterbender icarito: I don't want people to feel inhibited from working on something because they don't get a response from a team
15:48 but I have no idea if it is a real issue
15:49 icarito walterbender: i think 2 weeks is a bit quick for Local Labs - I'm just arriving in 2 weeks to peru - can we say in a month from now?
15:49 walterbender icarito: sure
15:49 JT4sugar walterbender, Maybe a report plus asking what community benefitting plans the teams or labs have for next six months, might help initiate action-As people do or don't respond we will get a complete picture then adjust accordingly
15:49 walterbender JT4sugar: nice
15:50 so we have an action plan for the leadership topic at least...
15:50 alsroot +1
15:50 walterbender #action walter will contact team coordinators to ask for a report due in 1 month ; icarito will do the same for local labs
15:51 shall we set the date for our early Sept. meeting?
15:51 Sept. 9?
15:51 alsroot walterbender: that will be useful to have this date
15:51 walterbender does that interfere with Sugar Camp Paris?
15:51 or is that a plus?
15:52 cjb hm, it's the day before it
15:52 that's probably not a plus
15:52 presumably people will be traveling
15:52 icarito walterbender: lets ask for a status report, some objectives and the confirmation of the pointperson/coordinator - and lets assume no answer means we can stash the team/local lab temporarily
15:53 I already tried asking for coordinators in southamerica and only had response from peru, argentina and colombia
15:54 by stash I mean only remove the link on the side bar of the wiki and put a notice on the wiki page
15:54 JT4sugar walterbender, asking teams to have report plus plan sent to you for discussion at SLOBS on or before Paris would allow for this info to be shared in Paris and hopefully good ideas to move forward and reenergize stalled efforts
15:54 icarito do you think that is too severe?
15:55 walterbender icarito Let's wait to hear back before we talk action
15:55 ^talk^take
15:55 cjl icarito removing link from sidebar is too severe and discourages someone from taking on leadership.  Note it on the team page
15:56 alsroot icarito: actually we can make a decision after getting more clean picture
15:56 icarito also do you think we can put this in a motion to give it some oficialness?
15:56 i'm ok with not removing until we hear back - hoping we hear back ;-)
15:56 walterbender icarito I think we are agreed to put into motion the reporting process
15:56 icarito yes
15:56 alsroot thinks having clean picture for teams/labs (and having an intention to keep it uptodate) is a huge plus itself
15:57 kab has quit IRC
15:57 walterbender icarito and then let's see where we stand... hopefully it will light a fire under some of our more quiet colleagues
15:57 alsroot: +1
15:57 icarito yes I don't expect we'll have to remove much if anything
15:57 walterbender so, let's perhaps plan to meet on the 16th, but I'll ask for the reports on due on the 9th
15:58 icarito but the intention to keep the sidebar up to date to reflect the community is important +1 alsroot
15:58 walterbender icarito I agree... and perhaps this exercise will lead to some reorg
15:58 alsroot walterbender: +1
15:58 JT4sugar walterbender, Asking them what they believe they need to be more successful may also yield some important info and areas we can identify and work on
15:59 walterbender JT4sugar: maybe you can help me draft some questions... we can also lean on cjl whose i18n report was very informative
15:59 icarito already noted in my calendar - lets ask for the status report to be sent to both SLOBs and (IAEP or Sur) for the cases where they may be in Spanish
15:59 walterbender alsroot: regarding your issue, perhaps you can play a role in drafting the devel team report?
15:59 cjl walterbender: I found my March one, but I thought  I had sent another mor erecently. .
16:00 JT4sugar walterbender, Sure early next week Tuesday would be good for me
16:00 walterbender cjl: I thought so too.
16:00 icarito cjl: you are the exemplary team ;-) just so you have an idea
16:00 alsroot walterbender: thats *too* slippery :), I guess erikos and silbe are current dev team coordinators
16:00 cjl looking at lists to find second
16:01 walterbender ok... it is an hour
16:01 we should end the formal meeting
16:01 alsroot walterbender: but I can provide my vision for Platform Team
16:01 walterbender alsroot: +1
16:02 cjl March L10n report http://lists.laptop.org/piperm[…]March/002851.html
16:02 icarito ok we have an #action but no motion -
16:02 guess we can do with that
16:02 walterbender icarito: we don't need to vote on this...
16:02 icarito ok
16:02 seems we are agreed anyhow and also reflects past motions about this
16:02 cjl June L10n report  http://lists.laptop.org/piperm[…]-June/002970.html
16:03 walterbender well, thanks for attending today and for staying on topic...
16:03 any last words for the official transcript?
16:04 3
16:04 2
16:04 1
16:04 #endmeeting
16:04 meeting Meeting ended Fri Aug  5 16:04:21 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
16:04 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-05T15:00:58.html
16:04 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]11-08-05T15:00:58
16:04 cjb thanks, see you
16:04 cjl walterbender: The L10n reports used no specific template, but perhaps some ideas can be derived from them.
16:04 walterbender cjl: the ideas are what I am looking for...
16:07 alsroot thanks to all, /me needs to run
16:08 cjl walterbender: I've adopted the practice of posting them to the L10n list 1) to emphasize that I am team coordinator, not csar, 2) t osolicit wider input and start community discussions on the topics i single out.  Might be a good practice to promote for other teams.
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