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#sugar-meeting, 2011-08-03

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14:00 m_anish dirakx, alsroot, silbe, jvonau , yama , meeting? :)
14:00 christophd hi all
14:00 alsroot hi all
14:00 silbe hi christophd!
14:00 jvonau hi
14:01 silbe and nice to see tch again!
14:01 (though probably not for the meeting)
14:01 dirakx1 hi
14:01 christophd silbe: bonjour
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14:02 m_anish #startmeeting
14:02 meeting Meeting started Wed Aug  3 14:02:31 2011 UTC. The chair is m_anish. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:02 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
14:03 m_anish #topic dx-3 release
14:03 silbe, i think we're pretty close? we can release early next week maybe?
14:04 silbe m_anish: are we? The latest build didn't work at all. :-/
14:04 m_anish silbe, lol, but we know the fix
14:04 silbe m_anish: the sound mixer issue hasn't been resolved either and mesh is probably enabled as well.
14:05 m_anish silbe, oh man!, mesh :/ /me forgot
14:06 silbe, http://git.sugarlabs.org/dextr[…]d/disable_mesh.sh
14:06 silbe, ^ shouldn't this work? including the dextrose-platform rpm
14:06 hasn't checked whether its been included
14:07 silbe m_anish: I don't think we have dextrose-platform for DX-3 yet. And it looks like only one half of the work - we also need to disable mesh during boot.
14:08 m_anish silbe, the dextrose-platform contains only this file AFAIK, so including it shouldn't be a problem. But I agree, about disabling it at boot time, but wouldn't that be in the libertias code?
14:09 jvonau silbe: isn't mesh disable a gconf setting?
14:09 silbe BTW, if we intend to call it DX-3 *alpha*, we might get away with lots of bugs. So we could fix just the ones mentioned above, do the release and focus on feature work for the next two weeks so that we'll get e.g. WebDAV support into Sugar 0.94 before it freezes.
14:11 jvonau: you're probably thinking of ad-hoc rather than mesh.
14:11 m_anish silbe, +1, but just need to ensure the build works(like fixing the olpc-kbdshim), even if it has bugs
14:11 silbe m_anish: of course
14:12 icarito <icarito!~webchat@jita.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting
14:12 jvonau silbe: yes I was.. sorry
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14:13 silbe m_anish: the libertas driver and NetworkManager enable mesh by default. We need to explicitly disable it a) during boot and b) on resume. IIRC b) is only in case the wifi chip was powered off during suspend (=> device disappears and reappears).
14:14 m_anish: if it were a module parameter instead of a sysfs file, it would work even across suspend. But my patch to do that was rejected upstream.
14:14 m_anish silbe, so, I'll give dx3 a test run today on the xo-1,  dirakx had tested on a 1.5, if we don't find any big blockers, i think we can go ahead and release
14:15 silbe, AFAIK the curret script in dx-platform, works during boot and after suspend
14:15 silbe I should follow up on that patch some time so we get a permanent solution, but not now™.
14:16 m_anish: does it get called explicitly from some other script during boot? Because as the name suggests scripts in /etc/powerd/postresume.d will only be executed after resume.
14:16 tch m_anish: for the boot moment is a custom script during the building process, what is in dx-platform is only for powerd resume policy
14:18 m_anish: just check the example files in the dx os-builder
14:18 m_anish tch, but the mesh was disabled after boot as well, i'm positive :-), does that happen because of something else
14:18 tch, okay
14:18 tch m_anish: yes, and like i said that is being done with a script created with another custom script during image building process haha
14:18 m_anish tch, ah! ok :)
14:19 tch, (glad to hear frm you btw)
14:20 silbe, so, if we can get these fixed soon enough, dx-3-alpha should be good to go?
14:21 silbe m_anish: I'd say so - in the understanding that as an alpha release it's expected to be buggy.
14:21 m_anish silbe, +1
14:21 silbe (or at least OK if it is buggy)
14:21 m_anish okay, next topic...
14:21 #topic dx12 planning, roadmap
14:22 alsroot, silbe i sent the rough roadmap today, would like to know your thoughts (IRC, mail) :)
14:22 silbe m_anish: it would be nice if you could a) include other roadmaps (Sugar, OLPC) for comparison and b) include a plain text copy in the mail for easy overview.
14:22 alsroot m_anish: will see..
14:23 m_anish silbe, +1 exactly, that was my concern to, syncing with olpc/sugar
14:23 silbe (and easier replying as well)
14:24 m_anish: I guess so, but couldn't tell without the dates from the other roadmaps (and didn't get around to looking them up yet, just had a quick glance at your PDF).
14:24 m_anish #action m_anish send plain text email (for just development roadmap)
14:24 #action include olpc/sugar roadmaps in the spreadsheet
14:25 silbe, the idea behind spreadsheet was that everyone (platform, activity, community, QA) can look at it and knows what's happening, have all info in one place
14:25 but agree that, just for platform, should have plain text too
14:25 alsroot, thanks!
14:26 silbe, any immediate problems you see with it?
14:27 silbe m_anish: Not yet because I couldn't compare with other roadmaps yet.
14:27 m_anish silbe, ok
14:28 silbe m_anish: if you're already at it, it would be nice to have the SugarCamp Paris date listed as well. I'm considering arriving early / departing late to have a hacking session.
14:28 BTW, anyone else going to come?
14:29 m_anish silbe, ok, will add, do you have a link for its schedule?
14:29 alsroot, silbe, I had sent an email about the dx12-objectives too, we'll need to get to discussing that too, maybe early next week as well?
14:30 much of the objectives are driven by olpc.au and captured in their bug-tracker
14:30 silbe #link http://fr.amiando.com/olpcfran[…]ugarcamp2011.html SugarCamp Paris 2011 program and registration (free entrance, travel sponsorships available)
14:31 alsroot m_anish: btw, will dx3 use 0.9x?
14:31 m_anish alsroot, yep
14:31 silbe m_anish: FWIW it looked good at first sight. Do you know what priority connecting to networks with hidden SSIDs has for OLPC-AU (wasn't mentioned in your email)? jvonau?
14:31 christophd silbe: not sure whether you've seen my mail already but I'll stay 2 1/2 extra days in Paris. also want to do some relaxing but would definitely be up for a hacking, writing, working session with you and others on Monday
14:32 silbe christophd: yep, registered it with delight :)
14:32 m_anish silbe, ah, I added you as a watcher on the related ticket in the au bugtracker
14:33 jvonau silbe: I have a workaround for hidden SSID support.
14:33 m_anish silbe, we'll have to get to that when we're going through the au tracker :)
14:33 silbe we need to discuss meeting time, BTW - otherwise staying longer than for the weekend will be impossible for me.
14:33 (yeah, the implication isn't obvious, I can explain in private :) )
14:34 jvonau: ah, good, so it isn't that important for the December 2011 release?
14:35 jvonau It would be nice, we can work on that.. I'd have to explain how it works, and there really isn't a big change.
14:35 m_anish next topic... who wants to be patch manager for dx12 ;-)
14:35 christophd silbe: should we wait for bastien to return in a week or start discussing a post-camp hacking day on the lists asap?
14:35 m_anish i can do it if needed :)
14:37 silbe christophd: since your schedule is already fixed now (having booked your flight), we should start discussion on-list ASAP.
14:38 m_anish: if you handle the distro side, I can do the Sugar parts. That way we should be most efficient.
14:38 m_anish silbe, agree!
14:38 icarito read in backlog - question regarding deactivating mesh -> does ad-hoc replace this functionality transparently to the user?
14:39 m_anish #agreed m_anish patch manager for dx12 ( m_anish handle distro parts, silbe handle sugar side)
14:39 icarito or will "under the tree" work?
14:39 m_anish icarito, yes
14:39 icarito ah ok great
14:39 silbe icarito: More or less, yes. And only XO-1s have mesh at all. Both XO-1.5 and XO-1.75 (AFAIK) don't.
14:39 m_anish ok, next topic...
14:39 #topic status updates
14:39 silbe icarito: the UI for the default Ad-hoc "channels" is very similar to the UI for the mesh channels.
14:40 m_anish dirakx, start with you?
14:40 dirakx1 m_anish: ok
14:40 m_anish dirakx, :)
14:40 silbe icarito: it should work even better, including with non-XOs.
14:40 listens
14:40 icarito cool
14:41 dirakx1 has been working with AU and UY, stablishing workflows along with flavio and sebastian. doing pootle maint and some upstream work with activities.
14:41 it's the same, but cool.
14:41 that's it.
14:42 m_anish dirakx, ok
14:42 thanks
14:42 icarito, status update? :)
14:44 christophd silbe: okay, I'll send out a message :)
14:44 icarito ok I did some fixes for activities for olpcau - mostly screencast got a revamp in UI (to be released upstream) - and refactored most of the websdk into a separate package - also starting moving to flask python web framework especially because it comes with an excellent debugger
14:45 that's it also ready to start journey to peru next monday
14:46 m_anish icarito, nice :), thanks
14:46 alsroot, any updates from py?
14:46 icarito, travel safe! :)
14:47 alsroot m_anish: I'm workin on visa and will stay here for 6m to push sugar server to production here
14:47 needs to run
14:47 m_anish alsroot, ok,nice! chau
14:48 dirakx1 alsroot: bye...chao
14:48 m_anish silbe, status update?
14:48 silbe alsroot: have fun!
14:48 dirakx1 didn't know that alsroot was working with PY.
14:49 silbe m_anish: not much to announce today - did lots of "small" stuff (that took more time than I'd like) and catching up.
14:50 m_anish silbe, ok
14:51 silbe we might still have a licensing issue with our Dextrose "logo", BTW.
14:51 icarito thanks m_anish
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14:52 m_anish from my side, I mailed a platform-team update to the team. I've been working on roadmap, planning, and related stuff. From my side, I hope to finalize the roadmap and maake it public by the next AC meeting
14:52 silbe, hmm, you'd need to raise it with david, IMHO
14:53 so i'd like feedback on the pdf/spreadsheet i emailed. also dirakx you'd probably need to coordinate the activity team activities around it, so please have a look at too :)
14:53 silbe m_anish: it should be more of a technical issue: we need to include the attribution in the build, not just in the source.
14:54 the Design Team is apparently going to meet here in ~5 minutes, so we better hurry up.
14:54 m_anish silbe, ah! are you talking about the 'by ActivityCentral' thing?
14:54 silbe, +1
14:54 silbe can we discuss meeting time?
14:54 m_anish #topic AC weekly meeting time
14:54 dirakx1 m_anish: will do thanks.
14:54 silbe m_anish: nop, the chemical structure picture
14:54 m_anish silbe, ah!
14:54 gonzalo <gonzalo!~gonzalo@190.173.43.27> has joined #sugar-meeting
14:54 m_anish :)
14:54 okay, I'm okay with all days 0400-1600 UTC
14:54 except tuesday 14-15 UTC
14:55 silbe m_anish: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]ugust/001332.html
14:55 dirakx1 I'm also o.k with that hours.
14:55 m_anish silbe, you wanted to move to friday or mnday?
14:55 silbe I'd prefer Monday since there's already another meeting I'm joining.
14:55 m_anish silbe, ok i'll see it after the meeting
14:55 jvonau FWIW my workaround for hidden SSID support was documented by Quozl at: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Wifi[…]y#Hidden_Networks All I do is have os-builder change plugin=keyfile
14:55 m_anish How about 13-14 UTC or 15-16 UTC?
14:56 #link http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]ugust/001332.html
14:56 dirakx1 m_anish: we have dept meeting on monday.
14:56 m_anish #link http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Wifi[…]y#Hidden_Networks
14:56 dirakx1 14 UTC.
14:56 m_anish dirakx, yep, from 14-15
14:56 dirakx1 monday 15-16 should be o.k then.
14:56 m_anish so I was thinking before/after it?
14:57 jvonau any day is fine for me prefer 15-16 UTC
14:57 m_anish icarito, jvonau alsroot does that time work?
14:57 k
14:57 dirakx1 we have activities meeting bfore so after is better.
14:57 m_anish silbe, 15-16 UTC on monday work for you?
14:58 dirakx1 activiites meeting of AC that is.
14:58 icarito m_anish: yes 15-16 works better
14:58 we have team meeting at 13
14:58 m_anish ok, /me waiting for ACK from silbe :)
14:59 silbe m_anish: 15 UTC is a bit tight since the other meeting is at 14 UTC, but it would be better than meeting on another day.
14:59 dirakx1 icarito: yep from 13 to 14.
14:59 silbe: +1 on that.
14:59 m_anish ok, should we take this on #sugar and close the meeting here, we're out of time?
14:59 silbe dirakx1, icarito: would 16 UTC work for you? How about jvonau?
14:59 m_anish or 1530?
15:00 icarito dirakx1, m_anish  - maybe activity team meeting should happen after general team meeting?
15:00 jvonau works for me
15:00 Eli-5dce <Eli-5dce!~urk@71-211-53-142.clsp.qwest.net> has joined #sugar-meeting
15:00 icarito dirakx1: maybe we can still do 13-14 for general team meeting
15:00 dirakx1 silbe: works for me.
15:00 Eli-5dce has left #sugar-meeting
15:01 icarito dirakx1: we can have activity team meeting at 15
15:01 silbe ok, great. So let's say Mondays 16:00 UTC.
15:01 jvonau +1
15:01 m_anish ok, mondays 1530 would be preferred for me, can't we roll it back 30 mins ;-)?
15:01 dirakx1 icarito: yep that could work.
15:01 silbe FYI: we can continue here until manuq and garycmartin show up.
15:01 icarito +1 for 15
15:02 it would be nice to keep meetings at 1h
15:02 +1 for 13 actually
15:02 silbe m_anish: no problem, 1.5h should be enough for the other meeting.
15:03 as long as we don't overlap regularly, it isn't a problem.
15:03 icarito ok 15.30 works for me too
15:03 m_anish icarito, ok
15:03 dirakx1 +1 oen on 15:30
15:03 m_anish #agreed 1530UTC mondays AC weekly meeting
15:03 silbe thanks!
15:03 m_anish (before someone suggest some other time) :)
15:03 dirakx1 :)
15:03 jvonau lol..
15:03 m_anish silbe, yw
15:03 icarito :-)
15:04 m_anish ok, anything else left to discuss
15:04 ?
15:04 3
15:04 silbe who's going to work on what for a) DX-3 (alpha)
15:04 and b) DX-12 / DX-3 non-alpha?
15:05 m_anish for dx-3 alpha, i can testdrive on xo-1, and help with bugs...
15:05 silbe since feature freeze is soon, we need to start ASAP.
15:05 m_anish yep, +1
15:05 silbe m_anish: can you work on the mesh issue and do a new build?
15:05 icarito about roadmap seems feature freeze is pretty soon
15:05 m_anish silbe, i can try today, but i'm offline next 2-3 days :/
15:05 dirakx1 I can help with testing on xo-1.5
15:06 icarito m_anish: what kind of things can't be done after feature freeze?
15:06 silbe that would leave me free to work on WebDAV
15:06 jvonau I'll help test also
15:06 silbe jvonau: great, thanks!
15:06 m_anish actually it would be a good idea to run through the au tracker soon and incorporate any new features they have mentioned in tickets
15:06 #topic dx-3 alpha and dx-3 post-alpha work division
15:07 silbe BTW, anybody up to looking into the alsamixer issue? Firing up the OLPC release and checking if they have the same issue would be a good start.
15:07 m_anish icarito, the idea of feature freeze from platform pt. of view is that we settle on a kind of 'list' of what will go in the buuld
15:08 after that, we just code, fix issues, test, QA
15:08 silbe, afraid I can't do that, in the next 3 days atleast :/
15:08 icarito ok
15:08 silbe m_anish: for upstream (Glucose) feature freeze is the deadline for _landing_ the code. So we need to have it working and submitted for review before that date.
15:08 m_anish (alsamixer issue)
15:09 silbe anyone else with an XO-1? As mentioned, just checking the OLPC build for the same issue would help a lot.
15:09 m_anish silbe, ok, for us that would be 'Alpha-3' in the roadmap doc, IMHO
15:09 the sugar feature freeze is in 2 weeks, too soon for us..
15:10 jvonau what bug# is the alsamixer issue?
15:10 m_anish jvonau, you had some things you wanted to get upstreamed, that would be the date
15:10 silbe m_anish: would be good to spell that out in our Roadmap
15:10 jvonau m_anish: it's in the au tracker
15:10 m_anish mentioned it against 'alpha-3' notes, (which need to be more verbose) :)
15:11 silbe jvonau: not sure I've filed one yet. It's easy to recognise, though: If you start alsamixer, you'll see a _lot_ of different controls and only "weird" combinations of them enable actual output of sound.
15:11 icarito silbe, m_anish that's also how I understood feature freeze, but if its a list, sounds more flexible
15:11 silbe jvonau: whereas it should show just a few controls (master, PCM, DC mode, bias voltage).
15:12 jvonau I'll have a look at the OLPC build
15:12 silbe jvonau: great, thanks!
15:14 m_anish another point to consider would be how to integrate QA into all of this, /me and david are gonna be working on this
15:14 christophd has quit IRC
15:15 silbe m_anish: FWIW, I've been working (again) on replacing sugar-toolkits ancient copy of gnome-session with using upstream gnome-session directly. One advantage is that the accessibility helpers will get started, a necessary step towards automated UI testing.
15:16 m_anish silbe, nice!
15:16 dirakx1 m_anish: cool. QA is very important, if you came with a plan keep me in the loop.
15:16 m_anish dirakx1,  +1
15:17 dirakx1, i think activities are gonna be a significant part of it
15:17 silbe with walterbender and rgs hacking on Sugar to get rid of hippo-canvas, we might be able to resume work on automated UI tests soon. It won't happen in time for 0.94, of course, but still a good start.
15:18 m_anish ok, endmeeting?
15:18 silbe m_anish: activities should be testable even today. We "just" have no documentation on how to do it (and it isn't easy to figure out).
15:18 m_anish: +1
15:18 m_anish silbe, yep
15:18 #endmeeting
15:18 meeting Meeting ended Wed Aug  3 15:18:45 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
15:18 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-03T14:02:31.html
15:18 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]11-08-03T14:02:31
15:18 m_anish thanks everyone :-)
15:19 dirakx1 thanks m_anish
15:19 thanks all.
15:32 cjl silbe is getting an AC specific drawing of the Dextrose molecule of interest?
15:32 ran informatics at pharma company, has some molecule drawing tools somewhere. . .
15:33 .me remembers for a long time one fo the more prominent molecular biology textbooks had NDA with left-hand spiral (Z-DNA) instead of right-hand (B-DNA)
15:34 silbe cjl: recreating the whole boot screen from known sources would be good. That's the main issue - I had to reverse engineer the PNG frames from the existing binary package and don't know where the individual parts of the image actually came from and who did it.
15:35 cjl silbe: I don't know the Dextrose boot screen.
15:36 silbe cjl: would be great if you could check that the "logo" actually shows Dextrose. m_anish claims it's incorrect, but then Wikipedia would be incorrect as well (which I can't rule out). :)
15:36 cjl But I could give you de novo created Dextrose molecule drawing in any format you want.
15:36 silbe cjl: http://git.sugarlabs.org/dextr[…]tanim/frame00.png
15:37 cjl: i
15:39 cjl: I'd be similarly careful about that - I wouldn't be surprised if vector images output by some proprietary molecule design software was copyrighted - e.g. the characters (fonts are copyrighted). :-/
15:41 cjl silbe:  That is not dextrose
15:41 silbe m_anish: seems you were right
15:41 ^
15:42 cjl dextrose is a ring
15:42 something like http://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.go[…].cgi?cid=11600783
15:42 silbe cjl: then an actual dextrose structure in SVG format would be great
15:42 cjl but I need to confirm stereochemistry carefully
15:42 Dextrose = D-glucose
15:42 silbe cjl: yeah, that looks more like what I remember from my school days :)
15:43 cjl specifically alpha-D-glucose
15:44 BTW, FWIW, the PubChem images are probably public doamin (by virtue of being US Govt. work). but I can probably recreate.
15:45 now curious what that other molecule is.
15:47 m_anish cjl, silbe the ring, and the one used, might be isomorphic? or I may be wrong, I was a long time ago, and I never liked organic chemistry very much :-)
15:47 -> afk
15:48 silbe sorry, need to work on some offline stuff now. As mentioned above, I'd appreciate a picture (chemical structure) of actual dextrose in SVG format.
15:50 cjl 3R,4S,5R,6R)-3,4,5,6,7-pentahydroxyheptan-2-one
15:51 m_anish: There are multiple glucose stereoisomers, Dextrose is specifically alpha-D-glucose
15:52 The structure shown in the link provided is http://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.go[…].cgi?cid=11571946
15:53 Note, it is left t oright flip, but same molecule
15:53 Neither of which is alha-D-glucose
15:55 Making and breaking carbon bonds in rings doesn't typically happen (and have it called the same compound)
15:55 lucian <lucian!~lucian@78-86-217-168.zone2.bethere.co.uk> has joined #sugar-meeting
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15:57 garycmartin <garycmartin!~garycmart@2.24.253.192> has joined #sugar-meeting
15:58 manuq hi garycmartin
15:58 garycmartin manuq: Hi, sorry almost running late :)
15:59 manuq garycmartin: we didn't started yet
15:59 hello gonzalo
16:00 walterbender hi
16:00 shall we begin?
16:00 ping silbe
16:00 ping gonzalo
16:00 #startmeeting
16:00 meeting Meeting started Wed Aug  3 16:00:36 2011 UTC. The chair is walterbender. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:00 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
16:01 manuq ok let's start
16:01 walterbender If it is OK, why don't we just work our way through http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/D[…]m/Toolbar_Catalog ?
16:03 start with Abacus? Which will raise two general points we can use later?
16:03 manuq walterbender: ok, go on
16:03 walterbender (1) when do we use the gear vs the spanner?
16:04 IMHO, we should use the spanner for adjusting parameters, and the gear for user-created content
16:04 manuq walterbender: +1
16:05 walterbender in the case of abacus, I am on the fence, leaning towards spanner for creating custom abaci
16:05 garycmartin walterbender: If I remember correctly, the spanner was originally only suggested as the gear was already being used for view source.
16:05 silbe walterbender: what's the agenda for today? if it's "just" activity toolbars work, I'll skip the meeting (you're doing great without me anyway)...
16:05 walterbender garycmartin: we have things that fall somewhere in between
16:05 manuq I was looking for a replacement image that means "create" different than the gear, but I have no idea what can be
16:06 walterbender silbe: the plan for today was to try to wrap up any toolbar issues
16:06 garycmartin: abacus is perhaps a bad example, and it should be a spanner
16:07 garycmartin: but in cases where you create your own content (or code), e.g., programmable blocks in TA or Memorize games or Visual Match games... it is closer to view source
16:07 silbe walterbender: ok, good. Have fun then!
16:07 walterbender garycmartin: I think we could use the gear in those cases
16:07 manuq +1
16:08 walterbender ^could^should
16:08 garycmartin: I think it is important to send a message: make your own
16:08 garycmartin walterbender: I'd rather not try and make a distinction here. I like the gear visual for customising/editing/modifying type features (not the same as create new).
16:08 walterbender distinct from the usual setting of parameters
16:09 garycmartin: so one icon for all?
16:10 garycmartin walterbender: yes, well, the cog could be used on its own or as part of an icon to represent what is being modified.
16:10 walterbender garycmartin: can you explain?
16:11 to me: (spanner): modify temp, humidity parameters in Distance; (gear): create your own cards for Memorize
16:12 garycmartin The cog can in some cases be used as a badge on an existing visual (quickly looking for an example)
16:14 walterbender: For distance, the cog would seem better. Memorize could be the memorise icon with a cog badge overlaid.
16:14 walterbender garycmartin: I used the cog in Sliderule as a badge
16:15 garycmartin: I don't follow the distinction you are trying to make between cog and spanner
16:16 manuq http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/D[…]Catalog#Sliderule
16:16 walterbender or icon vs badge
16:17 garycmartin walterbender: I'd rather not end up in a cog vs spanner discussion every time an activity allows some modification feature. Better just drop the spanner and stick with the cog, with the cog occasionally being used as part of icon from time to time when needed.
16:17 walterbender garycmartin: OK. that I grok.
16:18 garycmartin walterbender: Sliderule, yep exactly, the cog being used with the ruler edge is a great example.
16:18 walterbender: sorry, a little slow getting going today :)
16:18 walterbender garycmartin: then the other distinctions we need to sort out are play new game vs create new game: star vs gear?
16:18 as a badge?
16:19 #agreed Better just drop the spanner and stick with the cog, with the cog occasionally being used as part of icon from time to time when needed.
16:20 manuq ok!
16:20 for the start/play we can use the star, and for the create/modify, we can use the cog
16:20 walterbender manuq: works for me.
16:21 gary?
16:21 manuq will the star be a good icon in itself? or always as part of another picture?
16:22 walterbender manuq: that is a question I was going to ask as well... we are inconsistant there
16:22 garycmartin walterbender: A star used as a badge is a good 'new' metaphor (and fairly standard on other platforms), but 'new what' is the question. I guess create new and play new can be different base icons badged with the star?
16:22 walterbender manuq: and we use different stars
16:23 manuq a while ago I did a crazy icon for "play" that is different than "play media"
16:23 http://dev.laptop.org/~manuq/etc/play-xo.png
16:23 like a kid playing
16:23 walterbender manuq: a kid playing futbol
16:24 manuq but is risky, I don't think that a reuse of the XO will be a good thing
16:24 walterbender manuq: in nord, the kid would be throwing a ball :)
16:24 manuq walterbender: he he
16:24 garycmartin (by 'star' I'm thinking not thinking of the favourite solid star shape, but more a sparkle)
16:25 walterbender garycmartin: we use the favorites star for new game in, for example, implode
16:25 manuq walterbender: ugh
16:25 garycmartin walterbender: yea, and I've never thought that a good idea...
16:26 walterbender garycmartin: I am happy to use the activity icon with a sparkle badge for new game
16:26 garycmartin The big five pointed solid star needs to stay as our favourite/bookmark type metaphor.
16:26 manuq limited english makes him wonder what a sparkle is
16:26 walterbender but what about load new game? journal icon with activity badge? Like in Memory? or activity icon with Journal badge?
16:27 gonzalo hi, am back
16:27 walterbender manuq: the star used on the Memory icon
16:27 gonzalo: do you need the backlog?
16:27 gonzalo the star is used for favorites
16:27 manuq walterbender: thanks
16:27 gonzalo walterbender: no, thanks, reading now
16:27 walterbender garycmartin: I think we are close to consensus on these details.
16:28 garycmartin manuq: sparkle, as in the three small stars you placed under the timer clock icon
16:28 walterbender: yep
16:28 manuq garycmartin: ok thanks
16:29 garycmartin: walterbender: a wiki page with the icons attached to the posible uses will be nice
16:29 walterbender garycmartin: when a badge and when standalone? e.g., should implode use the Implode icon with a sparkle or just a large sparkle for new game?
16:30 manuq: see http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Walter
16:30 gonzalo garymartin, walterbender, manuq, sorry i think the cog does not work in all cases
16:30 walterbender gonzalo: we agreed on some wiggle room, but when specifically did you have in mind?
16:31 gonzalo walterbender: for example, in Record, we use the spanner, to set the parameters top create new media
16:32 walterbender: for example, and in Distance the parameters to do the new measurements
16:32 garycmartin walterbender: I'm not sure a large sparkle will work on it's own. Perhaps a 'play' icon with a sparkle (the sparkle to me just says 'new' so we need to indicate 'new what?').
16:32 walterbender garycmartin: OK... we should just agree on something consistant
16:33 gonzalo: I'm happy either way regarding your examples: spanner or gear. Gary was suggesting having both would lead to too much deliberation
16:34 garycmartin gonzalo: I think Record should be using the cog, not the spanner (same for Distance).
16:34 walterbender I have one more question of a general nature and then perhaps we can move through the list?
16:35 gonzalo garycmartin: i don't think so. Record produce a produce a collection of media, if we endable the user to see the source in any way will be this collection
16:36 and the cog is the source or a better representation of the source in my view
16:36 the spanner should be a configuration tool
16:36 no a creation tool
16:36 walterbender gonzalo, garycmartin: to me the distinction is generally between configuration and user-generate
16:37 which was why I was arguing for the two icons earlier
16:37 gonzalo walterbender: yes, i think is not the same thing
16:37 walterbender but if we have to live with just one, I'd say the gear
16:39 gonzalo garycmartin, i am sorry of going back with a already taken decision, but i think is important
16:39 garycmartin seems like a continuum for me. Having two different icons at each extreme just means we keep having to decide where to draw the line between each time.
16:39 walterbender garycmartin: I think it is pretty obvious in most cases and not fatal if it is wrong; useful when it is right
16:40 gonzalo and i can imagine cases where we will need the two icons too :)
16:40 walterbender garycmartin: in most cases, I think we will end up with the geat
16:40 ^geat^gear
16:41 garycmartin:  but in cases where is really is simply a matter of adjusting parameters, the spanner makes sense.
16:41 garycmartin: then the gear is sending a message to the user: roll your own!!
16:42 needs a better metaphor in our smoke-free workplace :)
16:42 garycmartin: can we walk though the list and see if we come across cases that are difficult to decide?
16:43 garycmartin walterbender: sure. I'm not clear what decision we just came to. Sounds like a non-decision.
16:44 gonzalo garycmartin: we can explain the use of the two icons
16:44 walterbender garycmartin: the abacus will be a good test case...
16:44 manuq just to make the decission harder, don't forget there is also the scissors for edit
16:44 garycmartin gonzalo: spanner for simple configuration, cog for complex configuration??
16:45 walterbender #topic abacus
16:45 I think the cog is the right choice because it is for the user to create their own version
16:45 manuq +1
16:45 garycmartin +1
16:46 walterbender but I don't like the use of the + icon to indicate more options...
16:46 any suggestions there?
16:46 and the star is wrong. should be the abacus icon with a sparkle to indicate create new
16:47 gonzalo walterbender: or a reload
16:47 to indicate apply the changes
16:47 manuq so maybe: cog for creating/modifing, posibly creating new instances, spanner for simple configuration
16:47 walterbender manuq: +1
16:48 gonzalo: this is more of a create than a reload
16:48 gonzalo manuq: and configuration imply setting parameters in the activity, more than creating a different new instance
16:49 manuq ok
16:49 walterbender any suggestions re the list of additional abaci?
16:49 sort of could be a combo box I guess
16:49 manuq is checking..
16:50 garycmartin is thinking
16:50 gonzalo walterbender: a globe to suggest different cultures?
16:50 walterbender gonzalo: binary and hexadecimal are the global hacker cultures :)
16:50 gonzalo of course :)
16:51 cjl raises hand
16:51 How much will this Toolbar work impact content of Po files?
16:51 walterbender cjl: not at all
16:51 cjl I want to know if I should wait on pushing for updates of POT files.
16:51 manuq cjl, we will need to change all the strings
16:51 joke
16:52 cjl walterbender: Ok, jsut don't want to push and then have to push again.
16:52 walterbender we should move on... there are other "list" examples that might spark an idea
16:52 garycmartin walterbender: sure (my sugar VM just fell over, restarting it)
16:52 cjl can go back to worrying about other things.
16:53 walterbender #action: walter to replace star icon in Abacus with badged activity icon
16:53 #topic browse
16:54 actually, one more general question: do we have any standard re order of buttons and toolbars?
16:54 manuq note: for abacus, it would be nice to do the activity icon smaller
16:54 walterbender buttons then toolbars (like in abacus) or toolbars then buttons like in Browse?
16:55 and any order for toolbars? edit then view then...
16:55 gonzalo walterbender: i think a consistent orden should be goog
16:55 good
16:55 edit first
16:56 walterbender gonzalo: then I should switch the order in Abacus
16:56 to match the order in Browse
16:56 manuq yes, activity icon|edit|view
16:56 cjl is now known as cjl_afk
16:56 gonzalo walterbender: yes
16:57 garycmartin walterbender: sorry, been a while since I played with Abacus. It used to be much simpler last time I looked!
16:57 walterbender personally, I like having all the toolbar buttons to the left
16:57 manuq +1
16:57 gonzalo walterbender: what is the use of copy/paaste in abacus?
16:57 walterbender garycmartin: well, it has too many example abaci...
16:57 that is what makes it cluttered
16:58 garycmartin walterbender: why are there some examples in the (+) icon and some in the main toolbar?
16:58 walterbender gonzalo: to copy the result to the clipboard or to paste a number into the abacus
16:58 gonzalo walterbender:ok
16:58 manuq garycmartin: I think the main toolbar changes the numerical system in use
16:58 walterbender garycmartin: maybe the all belong in the (+) toolbar...
16:58 garycmartin: but I hate that icon :P
16:58 manuq oops sorry
16:59 alsroot m_anish: Re: does that time work? -- yup
16:59 m_anish alsroot, great, i'll send out the email :)
16:59 gonzalo walterbender: this is a case for a spanner and a cog :)
16:59 garycmartin walterbender: Also 'Suanpan' is both in the main toolbar, and in the (+) icon, but each looks a little different.
17:00 goes to check he has the latest vision on his VM.
17:00 walterbender garycmartin: no. It is only on the main toolbar.
17:01 garycmartin walterbender: you're absolutely correct. Sorry for that.
17:02 gonzalo walterbender: may be this is a case for a combo with icons, like the timer in Record
17:02 walterbender #action: walter will move all the sample buttons to radio buttons on the secondary toolbar
17:02 garycmartin walterbender: so you need a nice icon for "examples" rather than the (+)
17:02 walterbender gonzalo: yeah... I was think of that tool... but I find combo boxs clumsy to use and hard to discover...
17:02 garycmartin: yes...
17:03 gonzalo: you cannot see everything at once
17:03 gonzalo: not if you are partly scrolled down.
17:03 gonzalo: but yes... I probably should do it that way anyway :P
17:04 gonzalo walterbender: may be, but in this case is difficult identify the abacus only with the icons
17:04 walterbender gonzalo: I'll try it and see how it looks.
17:04 gonzalo ok :)
17:04 garycmartin walterbender: the edit (scissors) icon should be over on the left as well
17:04 manuq also the activity icon for abacus is bigger than others, and spots out in the spiral
17:05 walterbender garycmartin: noted.
17:05 manuq if you agree, I volunteer to make it smaler
17:05 gonzalo manuq: i think walterbender will be happy if you send a better icon :)
17:05 walterbender +1
17:05 shall we move on...
17:05 manuq #action manuq will do the abacus activity icon smaller
17:05 garycmartin walterbender: are there other Activities that need to represent some kind of samples/examples? (like Memorize has some pre made games)?
17:06 just wondering if this is another standard icon we need.
17:06 walterbender garycmartin: yes... see visual match
17:07 manuq tamtam suite has examples also
17:08 garycmartin manuq: Yes, I was think TamTam Synth lab should not be using a text document icon. Should at least perhaps be a document icons with a sine wave on it.
17:08 manuq garycmartin: yes
17:08 gonzalo garycmartin: we have a document with as note too
17:09 manuq garycmartin: so maybe using document icon as an addition to other element for "sample"?
17:09 hmm
17:09 walterbender but we need a meta icon for a collection
17:09 gonzalo walterbender: may be a opened box
17:09 manuq a box/package?
17:09 walterbender a collection of presets, of journal items, of ...
17:09 gonzalo: with some sort of badge
17:10 gonzalo ye
17:10 walterbender: yes, we can have a no so big box, so we can add later the badge according the object
17:11 garycmartin I like the 'open box' idea as well, though we avoid 3d shapes, not sure an open box will be clear unless it is shown from an angle :(
17:11 manuq so I can work on a proposal for standard sample using a box
17:11 garycmartin: what about a square with two lines above?
17:12 garycmartin manuq: not very exciting ;-)
17:12 gonzalo walterbender, garycmartin, manuq: there are a box in the etoys toolbar
17:13 walterbender and turtle art
17:13 manuq gonzalo: right
17:13 garycmartin So for Memorize, it uses a combo box with text names for the sample games. Would we want to replace that with this new 'collections' visual?
17:14 manuq but the box in etoys is in 3d :(
17:14 gonzalo garycmartin: mhh, i think adding icons in this combo can be good
17:14 walterbender gonzalo: the icons are very small in the combo box
17:14 gonzalo i don't know how can be represented a box without perspective
17:15 maybe a folder is easier
17:15 a opened folder
17:15 garycmartin -1 for folder
17:15 gonzalo but is not a kid thing , a box is more logic for a kid i think
17:15 manuq right
17:16 maybe a box in one point perspective
17:16 I know perspective is not good for icons
17:16 garycmartin +1 for a box. Does need to be 3d/isometric to be clear.
17:17 manuq yes
17:17 gonzalo ok
17:17 walterbender: do you agree?
17:17 garycmartin walterbender: what are you using the open box icon for?
17:17 walterbender garycmartin: the palette for the boxes used for storing variables... something quite different
17:18 gonzalo: I agree with the idea of a box and a badge
17:18 manuq yes, that is specific for TA
17:19 gonzalo walterbender: may be in the context of TA can be used a badge to substitute the box?
17:19 garycmartin walterbender: box & optional badge. Yea, a box with a large enough flat side where another symbol could be placed.
17:19 manuq #action manuq will try an isometric box for "samples"
17:19 gonzalo manuq: i think the concept is "collections"
17:20 can be a collection of samples of course
17:20 manuq ok
17:20 walterbender moving on
17:20 any comments re Browse?
17:21 80 minutes and we are on to the 2nd activity :P
17:21 gonzalo walterbender:no about the icons
17:21 garycmartin :)
17:21 walterbender we'll need some extra time :)
17:21 #topic calculate?
17:21 gonzalo nop
17:22 manuq why don't we better talk about our toolbars work from last days?
17:22 gonzalo manuq: i prefer go one by one
17:22 manuq gonzalo: ok
17:22 walterbender manuq: we could but can we just flag any more activities that need attention in light of our discussion of abacus?
17:23 manuq walterbender: ok
17:23 walterbender #topic chat
17:23 OK?
17:23 #topic clock
17:23 OK?
17:23 manuq ok for me
17:23 gonzalo clock save any data in journal?
17:24 garycmartin ? ^
17:24 garycmartin gonzalo: It should do, but does not (I'd like it to keep state)
17:24 walterbender be nice to be able to copy the current time to the clipboard...
17:24 but that is out of scope for today
17:24 garycmartin walterbender: +1, also copy out a picture of the current clock face.
17:25 walterbender garycmartin: we could do the latter with Alt-1
17:25 gonzalo garycmartin: we discussed have a modifier like ALt-Shift-1 to capture only the canvas
17:25 walterbender +1
17:26 garycmartin gonzalo: That would be nice.
17:26 manuq yes
17:26 gonzalo was suggested by teachers
17:26 walterbender gonzalo: I implemented a separate button for that in TA
17:26 gonzalo: please file a ticket
17:26 gonzalo ok
17:27 walterbender looks forward to removing another TA button
17:27 next? #topic ConstellationFlashCards
17:27 a mess but not a priority at the moment, I presume
17:28 manuq yes, not a priority
17:28 gonzalo walterbender: no, please continue with the next
17:28 Distance is not updated in the catalog
17:28 walterbender #topic distance
17:29 gonzalo i don't know if you have a XO with distance apdated
17:29 walterbender gonzalo: didn't it used to have a copy to clipboard button?
17:29 gonzalo walterbender: i don't think so
17:29 walterbender only in my dreams :)
17:30 maybe I'll add it when I add the Smoot toolbar
17:30 but I think the new version is good
17:30 gonzalo: except, the label text is black and therefore unreadable
17:31 icarito has quit IRC
17:31 gonzalo i think the name entry must be in the activity toolbar
17:31 walterbender: yes is true
17:32 i don't like how this toolbar is organized
17:32 the spanner should be at the right
17:33 walterbender Maybe our rule of thumb is only to have the title on the main toolbar if there are no other buttons?
17:33 gonzalo walterbender, yes
17:33 walterbender there is no space issue with this activity, so no reason to avoid secondary menus
17:33 gonzalo and only show the title if the activity save anything useful in the journal
17:34 garycmartin trying to download the new version to see.
17:34 manuq garycmartin: I'm trying to upload a screen grab right now
17:34 garycmartin Oh my. Just looking...
17:34 walterbender distance could use lots of feature additions: save a collection of distance measurements to the journal, for example. So I think we will use the toolbar space in the future
17:35 (along with a user-definable label)
17:35 garycmartin Yea the spanner should so not be on the left. The activity name should be always on the far left.
17:36 manuq I can work on Distance toolbars
17:36 walterbender garycmartin: in this case, I think it should be on a secondary menu
17:37 shall we continue?
17:37 #topic finance
17:37 garycmartin walterbender: OK. I think the idea of the simple all in one toolbar is for the case where everything needed can tidily fit on the primary toolbar.
17:38 walterbender garycmartin: yes... but that is not the case with distance
17:38 garycmartin or perhaps a game that has no needed toolbar functionality.
17:38 walterbender: Distance, well only because of all that (black hidden) text ;-)
17:39 walterbender manuq: in Finance, what is the (v) button for?
17:40 gonzalo garycmartin:about distance, i think in this case is useful have this information not very important out of the main toolbar
17:40 walterbender: i s for actual period
17:40 manuq walterbender: for going to current period
17:40 walterbender gonzalo, manuq: no copy/paste?
17:41 garycmartin gonzalo: +1, it is quite geeky information to show up top.
17:41 walterbender also, a general question: view is being used for a very different metaphor here?
17:42 manuq walterbender: I don't think so, they are different representations of the same data
17:42 gonzalo walterbender: hmm, yes, but i think is logic
17:42 garycmartin every time he sees a spanner icon he just visualises a cog in its place ;-)
17:42 gonzalo is not zoom / full screen like in other activities
17:42 manuq it may be overloaded
17:43 gonzalo garycmartin: we will add a option cog/spanner in the control panel :)
17:43 walterbender garycmartin: distance will probably end up with both: a spanner to adjust humidity and a gear to set your personal distance metric, e.g., Smoots
17:43 garycmartin gonzalo: thanks :-)
17:43 gonzalo walterbender: +1
17:45 manuq I just uploaded updated toolbars for distance
17:46 garycmartin walterbender: Smoots is like an in-house MIT joke, right?
17:47 gonzalo we are ready with finance? or anybody have a better idea to substitute the arrow down?
17:48 manuq also, substitute the "period" string with a calendar?
17:48 walterbender gonzalo: I think we are OK.
17:49 manuq ok, go on then
17:49 gonzalo Finance have an interesting mode of use of help, but i think we can dedicate a session to help in activities
17:49 walterbender garycmartin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoot
17:50 gonzalo walterbender: next?
17:50 walterbender #topic fototunes
17:50 garycmartin smoot, yea was just reading that :-) But Not sure we want another icon for an in-house joke.
17:51 walterbender garycmartin: not a joke: it is important to let kids define their own units when learning about the concept of measurement
17:51 gonzalo walterbender: please don't distract to garcmartin! :)
17:51 walterbender gonzalo: yet another activity that could use copy/paste, IMHO, but otherwise looks good
17:51 gonzalo walterbender: ok
17:52 manuq yes, it looks good
17:52 walterbender maybe the submenu icon should be to the far left?
17:53 and in general, do we want a visible separator between the submenu icons and the buttons?
17:53 gonzalo submenu?
17:53 walterbender the menu for adjusting fonts
17:54 I asked before about whether we wanted to always put submenu icons to the left...
17:54 manuq maybe this is a case where the "all submenu buttons to the left" does not work
17:54 gonzalo i don't think all submenus at left is a good idea
17:55 i think i must replace the happy face with the insert-image icon
17:55 walterbender what about a separator before the first icon?
17:55 gonzalo: +1
17:55 garycmartin Perhaps just as a general guide, not a hard rule (I'm just downloading to try FotoToon)
17:56 walterbender garycmartin: fototoon rocks!
17:56 garycmartin walterbender: Yea, but I think I have an old version here.
17:56 walterbender gonzalo: no combo box for the different text bubbles :P
17:57 gonzalo: I think it is better to show the variety on the toolbar :)
17:57 gonzalo walterbender: hmmm, i think here have direct acces is better
17:57 walterbender gonzalo: in general, I think that is best
17:57 manuq yes, unless it grows, but is not probable
17:57 walterbender gonzalo: next, let the kids design there own !!
17:58 gonzalo yes, there are a lot to do
17:58 walterbender they can import an SVG generated in Turtle Art :)
17:58 manuq :)
17:58 gonzalo or do a movie?
17:58 :)
17:59 walterbender and record audio over pictures
17:59 manuq I have feature requests for fototoons also
17:59 gonzalo oook, only toolbars today :)
17:59 manuq but maybe we go on to the next toolbars
17:59 walterbender yes... we should continue
18:00 #topic get boooooks
18:00 an example of where just the main toolbar works?
18:00 manuq the three books icons may be replaced
18:00 gonzalo the cards is my poor idea about "catalogs"
18:01 catalogs is a collection of books
18:01 manuq oh, there are cards
18:01 gonzalo yeah
18:01 better ideas are welcomed
18:01 manuq yes, maybe the collections box to-be-done?
18:01 walterbender manuq: I made a library icon once... I'll try to find it and send it your way
18:01 gonzalo ar a shelf with books
18:02 manuq walterbender: good!
18:02 maybe some piled books
18:02 walterbender #action replace the cards icon with something better...
18:02 #topic help
18:02 manuq I don't know if "piled" is the word in english
18:02 garycmartin apologises as he needs to go very soon.
18:02 walterbender me too...
18:03 maybe a quick look at TamTam?
18:03 gonzalo help is ok i think
18:03 garycmartin TamTam, sure
18:03 manuq ok, go for tamtam
18:03 walterbender any others for immediate feedback?
18:03 that is on the discussion page:
18:03 gonzalo i need advice about memorize
18:03 walterbender http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/T[…]amTam_refactoring
18:03 gonzalo: we can do that next
18:04 manuq change document with box of collections
18:04 walterbender re tamtam, I think I should make Mini use just the main toolbar: not a secondary one as is shown
18:04 manuq: +1
18:04 garycmartin +1
18:05 manuq +1 for tamtam mini
18:05 gonzalo tamtammini support collaboration?
18:05 walterbender do we have a standard trash can?
18:05 doesn't like this one... too thin
18:05 garycmartin should we use the delete icon?
18:06 walterbender also, I think the spanner is the correct choice in Edit
18:06 garycmartin: +1
18:07 any other comments?
18:07 gonzalo walterbender: in tamtamedit?
18:07 walterbender gonzalo: yes
18:07 garycmartin walterbender: Think there is too much to get through in one meeting, at least for me.
18:07 gonzalo walterbender: i think here the hear is more appropriate :)
18:08 gear
18:08 walterbender or maybe we could break things up into multiple submenus
18:08 some are parameters, some are generators
18:08 gonzalo ahh, i see
18:08 walterbender garycmartin: if you can hang in just to give gonzalo feedback re Memorize?
18:09 manuq one more question for me, do you agree if I do a smaller icon for maze, for the same reasons as abacus?
18:09 gonzalo manuq:+1
18:09 manuq ok
18:10 #action manuq will do a smaller icon for maze
18:10 walterbender manuq: yes
18:10 garycmartin walterbender: sorry, all too rushed for me to make much sane feedback.
18:11 gonzalo garycmartin, walterbender: i have sent a mail anyway, if you can reply later is ok
18:11 walterbender ok...
18:11 manuq maybe we can continue memorize discussion by email?
18:11 walterbender we've been at it for more than 2 hours...
18:11 I think we made a lot of good progress today, sorting out how to make decisions
18:12 garycmartin gonzalo: Yes. Offline is much better for me trying to think things through. Realtime just ends up as a rush without much thought.
18:12 walterbender I feel like I am in better position to progress
18:12 gonzalo anybody volunteer to write in a wiki the decisions?
18:12 walterbender: yes!
18:13 walterbender #action: walter to do first draft of decisions for wiki... everyone to pitch in with the edits (and illustrations)
18:13 gonzalo i think we can do a really consistent release this time
18:13 walterbender thanks everyone. Try again next week?
18:13 gonzalo same day and hour?
18:13 garycmartin +1 for next week.
18:13 manuq of course! very nice progress
18:13 tch has quit IRC
18:13 manuq will be here next week
18:13 gonzalo thanks all!!!
18:13 manuq thanks!
18:14 garycmartin Thanks!
18:14 manuq has quit IRC
18:14 walterbender #endmeeting
18:14 meeting Meeting ended Wed Aug  3 18:14:37 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
18:14 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-03T16:00:36.html
18:14 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]11-08-03T16:00:36
18:15 garycmartin walterbender: thanks for chairing the meeting. Will try to follow up on the ongoing ML threads.
18:15 garycmartin has quit IRC
18:15 walterbender garycmartin: thank you
18:18 gonzalo: you still around?
18:18 tch <tch!~tch@mail.paraguayeduca.org> has joined #sugar-meeting
18:19 walterbender tch: you just missed all the fun -- design meeting
18:36 tch :(
18:37 walterbender tch: for the masochist in you: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]11-08-03T16:00:36
18:40 tch walterbender: lol, tks
18:48 gonzalo walterbender: i am back
19:07 walterbender gonzalo: just wanted to touch base about what confuses you with the Portfolio toolbars
19:11 gonzalo walterbender: ok, the delay control and the start reproducction , make me think the slider was to change the slides
19:12 may be the delay slider can be in a configuration subtoolbar :)
19:13 walterbender gonzalo: good idea... the spanner :)
19:13 gonzalo or the start automatic can be at the other side of the separator, and add the clock icon from record at the side of the slider
19:14 walterbender: ^ ?
19:14 walterbender hmm
19:15 I'll look at Record. Maybe a combo box for the delays
19:16 gonzalo walterbender: may be, but with less options
19:16 walterbender: another icon we need a agreement is where you use the arrow to save in a format to the Journal
19:17 walterbender gonzalo: it doesn't need too many options, I wouldn't think... maybe 5 seconds; 10 seconds; 30 seconds
19:17 gonzalo these arrows are suggested to transfers
19:17 walterbender gonzalo: that is something we didn't get around to discussing today...
19:17 gonzalo walterbender: yes, next meeting :)
19:17 we can't solve all today
19:17 walterbender also, icons for accessing the file system vs the journal
19:18 the TA examples all live in the file system
19:18 gonzalo access the file system? what is this? :)
19:18 walterbender oh. sorry. I forgot. just say no to file systems
19:18 gonzalo may be we can add a parameter to the object chooser to open a specific directory
19:19 hmm, is a good idea :)
19:20 walterbender maybe... an activity could mount some directories while it is opened.
19:20 and then close them upon exit
19:21 is liking that idea, actually
19:21 gonzalo but we do not need mount them, we only need say to ObjectChooser, open this directory too
19:22 and show it like any other mounted device
19:22 probably we will need set a order, iy you want select examples, don't want the object chooser open in the cjournal and later change to examples directory
19:23 walterbender mount is not the right word. but added to the journal volumes toolbar
19:23 gonzalo walterbender: ahh, ok
19:23 walterbender seems like a really simple way to accomplish a lot.
19:24 tch: what do you think? ^^
19:25 gonzalo tch: tincho is here? hello!!
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