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#sugar-meeting, 2011-07-27

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13:59 m_anish alsroot, yama` , silbe , jvonau, dirakx , AC weekly meeting?
13:59 dirakx +1
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13:59 alsroot is here
14:00 christophd will listen in if it's okay
14:00 m_anish christophd, np :-) , starting in a minute
14:01 hmm, silbe , icarito, don't seem to be around, anyway, here goes...
14:01 #startmeeting
14:01 meeting Meeting started Wed Jul 27 14:01:52 2011 UTC. The chair is m_anish. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:01 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
14:02 m_anish welcome all :-)
14:02 silbe is there, just still busy filling out the CP form :)
14:02 m_anish silbe, ah :)
14:02 silbe (for the XO-1.75)
14:03 m_anish First, lets start with a couple of updates...
14:04 (1) We settled on the way we'll handle .au support requests. all requests will be sent to support@activitycentral.com and cced to jvonau yama` and me or rafael. We expect that all AC devs will be subscribed to that list and anybody can answer the queries if they see a solution.
14:04 silbe, can you create a private mailing list with that id?
14:05 icarito <icarito!~urk@190.125.188.199> has joined #sugar-meeting
14:05 icarito hola
14:05 m_anish icarito, hi, just started
14:05 dirakx icarito: hola.
14:05 silbe m_anish: shouldn't we call it support-au, au-support or something like that?
14:06 icarito i'm having issues with internet, my wall voltage is I guess at 30% or so atm
14:06 m_anish silbe, hmm, yah, I agree
14:06 icarito_web_just <icarito_web_just!~webchat@jita.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting
14:06 silbe m_anish: choose a name and I'll create the list.
14:07 m_anish silbe, great! i think yama` sent you a list of all email id's from au side that need to be subscribed , also subscribe ALL AC devs
14:08 icarito_web_just silbe, m_anish did you think maybe roundup could be a solution?
14:08 silbe m_anish: yup, apart from the name I have everything I need. I'll just cascade it with team@. That way we cannot forgot to add someone to the list.
14:08 icarito_web_just: No, I don't think so.
14:08 icarito_web_just http://roundup.sourceforge.net/docs/features.html
14:08 m_anish silbe, ok
14:08 silbe (overhead etc.)
14:08 dirakx m_anish: silbe my opinion is that for simplicity we should name only support, plus the idea is to have all @team there.
14:09 m_anish icarito_web_just, the mailing list soln, everybody's happy with :)
14:10 silbe dirakx: there are not just AC devs on it, but also OLPC-AU members. If we get contracted by a different deployment, we probably wouldn't want OLPC-AU to get all the support mails, but rather just their own ones.
14:10 m_anish silbe, dirakx i'm ok with either, we might need separate lists if we were to provide these services to more deployments in the future
14:11 dirakx silbe: hmm right.
14:11 ok better support-au then.
14:11 silbe m_anish: separating the lists is easy, just a few lines of config. Changing the name is much harder because it needs to be changed on a lot of systems and heads.
14:12 m_anish silbe, ok, in that case, lets go with support-au@activitycentral.com as per dirakx suggestion
14:13 silbe it might turn out that I need to duplicate the memberships right away if Mailman doesn't play nice, but I'll see that once I try.
14:13 m_anish: ok
14:13 icarito_web_just +1
14:13 dirakx +1.
14:13 m_anish (although , au-support will be better in terms of text-autocomplete) ;-)
14:13 silbe #action silbe to create ML support-au@ with team@ + OLPC-AU members listed in yama`s email
14:14 m_anish ok, i'll leave silbe to chose :)
14:14 icarito_web_just i still think a solution like roundup could help with these workflows
14:15 silbe icarito_web_just: I'm wary of throwing another web service at it. If we have trouble doing it by email, we might look at possible tools, but for now it just increases the overhead of a) the people responding to support requests and b) the infra team.
14:16 m_anish next (2) me, rafael had a meeting with Daniel (uy) on tuesday, and we settled on basic ticket workflow, which is quite similar to .au . FWIW, they use redmime as well
14:16 dirakx, do you have anything to add to that?
14:16 icarito_web_just i'm concerned it hurts the ability of non-devs to trace issues
14:16 silbe and if we go for a web service, a second instance of Trac might be better than yet another service that needs to be maintained.
14:16 dirakx m_anish: nope o.k.
14:17 icarito_web_just silbe: sorry to go on with this but roundup is not just a web service but an email management tool like rt and mailman
14:17 it creates a mailing list per issue acording to rules
14:17 silbe BTW, what's the exact purpose of au-support in comparison with dev.laptop.org.au?
14:17 icarito_web_just it just happens to have an ability to trace from the web, like you do with mailman archives
14:18 only friendlier
14:18 dirakx m_anish: only that we will be having also accounts for our devs also in that redmine.
14:18 m_anish dirakx, ahh, could you remind daniel for creating the accounts?
14:18 dirakx silbe: au-support will be used by support on-site people of AU.
14:18 m_anish: sure. :)
14:18 silbe icarito_web_just: of which we already have both and I can't even administer RT. :)
14:19 icarito_web_just yes rt is a disaster but roundup is supposed to be meant to replace it
14:20 ok that was my last push sorry to bog the meeting down
14:20 silbe icarito_web_just: I'm not saying we shouldn't even try it, just that the infra team is already too busy to have set up the OLPC-AU mirror in time.
14:20 dirakx #action dirakx to remind daniel about dev accounts creation on UY's readmine.
14:21 m_anish icarito_web_just, silbe , for .au atleast we'll be using mailing lists for now (since AU-AC has agreed to that)... we might consider these options for future deployments or when we look at it again in a couple of months
14:21 silbe icarito_web_just: and FWIW I don't really like the Roundup web interface either (some other project uses it for issue tracking, though I don't remember which one).
14:21 icarito sure whatever works is best :-)
14:21 silbe m_anish: +1
14:22 dirakx yep, for now mailing lists are o.k but we should revisit in terms of scalability.
14:22 silbe I haven't really understood the difference between the ML and the OLPC-AU bug tracker, though. In which case would you use one or the other?
14:22 m_anish silbe, ah! ok, let me explain...
14:23 silbe, this mailing list is _only_ for support requests/queries from .au team. They just rolled out 10.1.3-au in field and this mailing list is meant to handle support requests for that...
14:24 dirakx +1.
14:24 m_anish silbe, for these requests, yama`  and jvonau would be having answers, however, if they don't we'd handle them
14:24 silbe m_anish: but why not file tickets on dev.laptop.org.au for those requests? Different audience? Reduced overhead?
14:25 m_anish silbe, for everything else development wise the .au tracker will be used.
14:25 silbe (I'm not suggesting to file tickets for everything, just trying to figure out what to use each channel for)
14:26 m_anish silbe, yep, different audience, and reduced overhead. we don't need redmime complexity for answering queries (or that's what we think) :)
14:26 silbe m_anish: let's phrase it differently: What's special about the requests that come in via the list?
14:26 m_anish: ok
14:26 m_anish silbe, so the mailing list would be for support queries w.r.t their 10.1.3-au . they typically won't require us to code anything, or submit any sort of patches etc...
14:27 silbe, the tracker would be used while developing dx12, fixing bugs/enhancements
14:27 silbe ok, makes sense now, thx!
14:27 m_anish silbe, yw :)
14:28 ok, moving on...
14:29 #topic porting, upstreaming and dx3-release
14:29 icarito_web_just thinking maybe we can take advantage of redmine itself https://we.riseup.net/cgdev/us[…]mail-with-redmine
14:30 m_anish silbe, I'm looking into the patches you told me to port, also managed to download latest build for xo-1, will let you know how the tests go
14:30 silbe, any roadblocks or anywhere we could help re: upstreaming.
14:30 silbe m_anish: which patches? I thought I had ported everything to DX3.
14:31 m_anish: or do you mean distro level patches (e.g. mesh) rather than Sugar?
14:31 m_anish silbe, you had told me a couple.. mesh
14:31 silbe, yah
14:31 silbe ah, ok.
14:32 m_anish #action m_anish ping esteban/uy re: accessibility patches
14:32 silbe m_anish: the focus is on releasing DX-3 right now, no upstreaming work.
14:32 m_anish #action m_anish port disable-mesh patch
14:33 silbe, ok
14:33 dirakx has quit IRC
14:33 silbe It's ok to ping esteban, of course :)
14:33 dirakx1 has quit IRC
14:33 m_anish :-)
14:34 silbe But we've delayed the release for more than a week now, we should really get it finished.
14:34 m_anish silbe, yah, agree!
14:34 dirakx <dirakx!~rafael@190.156.115.38> has joined #sugar-meeting
14:34 silbe This release was meant for synchronising with the OLPC schedule. We're not exactly good on that front. :-/
14:35 especially considering how few DX3 specific work has been done.
14:36 m_anish silbe, yep, i was offline for a major part of dx-3 (1.5 months), so I couldn't follow the development much
14:36 silbe m_anish: no offense meant
14:36 I'm grateful that you're helping now.
14:36 m_anish silbe, none taken :)
14:38 silbe BTW, dirakx have you got around to testing DX3? Found anything yet?
14:39 #link http://download.sugarlabs.org/[…]rose/testing/dx3/ download location for DX3 builds
14:39 dirakx silbe: not yet..I've been busy on other stuff. but I'm going to test it today. I'll report any issues to you then.
14:39 silbe: or maybe bug-track it ?.
14:40 silbe #info latest builds are dx3ng024 for XO-1 and dx3ng025 for XO-1.5
14:41 dirakx: filing tickets on bugs.sl.o is preferred, but posting to dextrose@ is fine as well.
14:41 dirakx silbe: o.k
14:42 icarito silbe: is there a way I can try dx3 sugar branch in my regular system?
14:42 dirakx #action dirakx to test dx3 latest build.
14:43 icarito do I select a branch in git sugar-jhbuild or something? my connections is weak
14:43 s/connections/connection/
14:44 silbe #link https://people.sugarlabs.org/~[…]xtrose/patchsets/ Dextrose 3 patch set tarballs
14:45 icarito: just import the latest patch set from ^ using git am. It's based on the mainline sucrose-0.92 branches.
14:45 icarito_web_just cool will try it I think I need to update sjhbuild ^ :-)
14:46 silbe icarito: you might need to drop a small number of patches that fix differences between the git repo and the release tarballs, but otherwise the patches should apply cleanly.
14:46 icarito: careful with updating jhbuild, they (upstream=Gnome) broke activity installation and I haven't got around to fix it yet. :-/
14:47 I know roughly what needs to be done, but right now getting DX3 out is my #1 priority.
14:47 icarito_web_just sure, dont let me interfere
14:47 :-)
14:48 silbe icarito_web_just: you don't :)
14:50 m_anish Ok, I don't know if anyone wants to do status updates considering the last meeting wasn't too long ago (sat). If anyone has anything to share or ask, please do.
14:51 dirakx is o.k on updates. :).
14:51 icarito no, still same, working on bugs by au and adding collaboration to websdk tunnelling http over stream tubes
14:52 found an example of tunnelling ssh with share-term by ben shwartz so now i'm stealing that implementation
14:52 share-term-activity transparently shares a terminal session using ssh and screen
14:52 s/stealing/being inspired by/g
14:53 silbe still needs to try ShareTerm :-/
14:53 dirakx icarito: btw don't forget to track your time in redmine for whaterver action you made regarding bugs.
14:53 m_anish hasn't heard of ShareTerm before :/
14:54 icarito dirakx: ok its best to do it in redmine, otherwise its doing tracking twice
14:54 dirakx icarito +1.
14:56 m_anish ok, closing in 3...
14:56 2..
14:56 1.
14:57 #endmeeting
14:57 meeting Meeting ended Wed Jul 27 14:57:00 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
14:57 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-27T14:01:52.html
14:57 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]11-07-27T14:01:52
14:57 dirakx1 <dirakx1!~rafael@190.156.115.38> has joined #sugar-meeting
14:57 m_anish silbe, dirakx icarito thanks :)
14:57 dirakx m_anish: thanks :).
14:57 alsroot icarito: "tunnelling http over stream tubes", sorry but it sounds to me too overkill..
14:57 silbe icarito: can you give a link to shareterm? It doesn't seem to be on a.sl.o :(
14:57 m_anish alsroot, christophd thanks foe being around :)
14:58 alsroot icarito: in particular, it sounds to me like a misusing
14:58 christophd m_anish: yeah, will try to attend more meetings to get a better feel for the challenges you face and work on :)
14:58 m_anish: btw, today it's 25 degrees around here so I'm sooooo happy ;-D
14:59 m_anish christophd, haha
14:59 icarito http://git.sugarlabs.org/shareterm
14:59 #link http://git.sugarlabs.org/shareterm
14:59 satellit_ is now known as satellit_afk
14:59 icarito found a page about it somewhere
14:59 silbe christophd: :-P (it's raining here)
14:59 icarito: thx!
15:00 icarito #link http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]9-May/014165.html
15:00 hates to reinvent the wheel
15:00 how does one track the time spend digging that up :-)
15:01 silbe icarito: "overhead" ;)
15:01 christophd silbe: we had rain most of the past 7 days or so. and I was so cranky because of it...
15:02 m_anish alsroot, silbe are you available before 1230UTC or after 1600UTC on this friday for a meeting with pablo?
15:02 christophd silbe: btw, you coming to Sugar Camp in Paris?
15:03 silbe christophd: I have day light lamps too prevent me from getting too cranky, but I still notice a difference. Besides, I need to go shopping in an hour, the fridge is nearly empty. :-/
15:04 alsroot m_anish: fine for me
15:04 silbe christophd: not sure yet as walterbender isn't coming. We're planning to do a real-life Design Team meeting this year and that meeting has priority.
15:04 christophd silbe: day light lamp sounds like a good investment this ummer!
15:04 silbe: walter isn't coming? that's a pity, he would have been a good motivation for others to come I think
15:04 silbe christophd: However given the current pace of the Design Team that will probably be in autumn or winter, so I might still come to Paris. I won't join the Berlin hack fest, though.
15:05 christophd silbe: which Berlin hack fest? CCC Camp you mean or what?
15:05 silbe christophd: he has to append a personal (happy) "event" at the same time.
15:05 christophd: Gnome gobject-introspection hack fest
15:05 christophd silbe: ah, okay
15:06 silbe christophd: I originally bought the lamps in winter, but this summer I'm using them a lot as well. :-/
15:06 christophd silbe: well, in any case it would be good to have you in Parus
15:06 silbe: yeah, it's a truly miserable summer atm
15:06 dirakx icarito: btw have you manage to see the ''concepto acerca de actividades'' that i sent you ?.
15:07 m_anish alsroot, ok
15:07 icarito dirakx: i havent managed to respond but briefly i havent tested either remote show activities and I dont think there's anything like the time limitating police activity
15:07 and i'm not sure I'd like to implement something like that
15:08 silbe christophd: I've at least marked it in my calendar. Need to find a place to stay first...
15:09 dirakx icarito agree about not implementing but can be a requeriment for teachers in some deployments.
15:09 icarito dirakx: i was about to respond this morning when thunderbird reminded me about this meeting
15:09 dirakx icarito can you help me in testing show and tell or similar activities to see wich of those are in better shape ?.
15:09 christophd silbe: yeah, talked with bastien and sean about accomodation, they said they'd get back to me later this week. unfortunately sean's flat isn#t available for urban camping anymore
15:10 dirakx icarito np ;).
15:10 icarito ok will try with classmate
15:10 dirakx is now known as dirakx_afk
15:12 silbe christophd: please keep me posted. Maybe we can rent and share some large apartment (Ferienwohnung).
15:16 christophd silbe: yeah, I was also thinking about something along these lines
15:16 silbe: let's keep in touch about this!
15:17 icarito toll
15:17 :-P
15:18 christophd icarito: hehe
15:19 anyway, gotta head out. take care everyone and speak soon
15:19 oh, and don't forget to send me your mug shots for the people page if you haven't done so already;-)
15:20 icarito_web_just has quit IRC
15:21 silbe christophd: you can take a shot of me in Paris ;)
15:21 christophd: have fun & cu!
15:21 christophd silbe: I have one from last year but it's not that, ahhh, "friendly" ;)
15:22 silbe christophd: there might not be a better one :)
15:22 icarito has quit IRC
15:22 christophd silbe: challenge accepted!
15:22 ciao
15:23 christophd has quit IRC
15:28 dirakx_afk is now known as dirakx
16:17 silbe has quit IRC
17:24 satellit_afk is now known as satellit_
17:55 garycmartin <garycmartin!~garycmart@2.24.253.192> has joined #sugar-meeting
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18:43 walterbender <walterbender!~chatzilla@146-115-134-246.c3-0.nwt-ubr​1.sbo-nwt.ma.cable.rcn.com> has joined #sugar-meeting
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18:58 gonzalo garycmartin, dirakx, walterbender, cjl, ready to start?
18:58 garycmartin gonzalo: Hiya. Yea, ready here.
18:58 cjl yep
19:00 gonzalo can we wait 5 minutes by dirakx, and manuq?
19:00 manuq <manuq!~manuq@190.183.231.129> has joined #sugar-meeting
19:00 cjl yep
19:00 garycmartin gonzalo: sure, no problem.
19:01 manuq hi!
19:01 gonzalo nello manuq!
19:01 hello
19:01 dirakx hello
19:01 walterbender hi
19:01 dirakx thanks for waiting
19:01 garycmartin manuq: hi!
19:01 manuq hello gonzalo, dirakx, walterbender!
19:01 and hello garycmartin
19:02 dirakx hello manuq
19:02 manuq did you started already?
19:02 gonzalo waiting for you :)
19:02 hello dirakx!
19:02 manuq am I late? sorry
19:02 gonzalo ok, i think we can start
19:02 cjl Is alsroot around?
19:03 gonzalo dirakx, do you know if sebastian plan attend?
19:03 dirakx gonzalo: he seems that is not attending.
19:04 let me try ping him by email.
19:04 walterbender is there an agenda?
19:04 can I add an item?
19:04 gonzalo walterbender, no agenda yet, please start
19:05 walterbender is looking for a better plugin strategy... but it is a minor issue perhaps
19:05 gonzalo and/or dirakx: wanna #startmeeting?
19:05 gonzalo yes, please
19:06 dirakx +1.
19:06 walterbender one of you want to be the chair?
19:07 gonzalo walterbender, can you be the cahir this time?
19:07 dirakx gonzalo: would you do the honors ?
19:07 hmm ok.
19:07 walterbender #startmeeting
19:07 meeting Meeting started Wed Jul 27 19:07:37 2011 UTC. The chair is walterbender. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:07 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
19:07 walterbender well all...
19:08 garycmartin A good turn out :)
19:08 walterbender gonzalo and dirakx: any words of wisdom to begin?
19:08 gonzalo ok, i think we can start with the agenda
19:09 if you agree
19:09 dirakx sure.
19:09 manuq sure
19:09 gonzalo ok, i don't know if you read http://wiki.laptop.org/go/11.3.0/Release_plan
19:09 cjl did
19:09 manuq too
19:09 gonzalo we have a very short window (one month) to do interesting and funny stuff
19:10 cjl likes added attention to L10n coordination
19:10 garycmartin skims it now quick.
19:10 walterbender #topic 11.30.0
19:10 dirakx just reading it.
19:10 gonzalo later we will be fighting with ARM and stabilization issues
19:11 walterbender gonzalo: are we aiming for things like the edit toolbar fix landing? and removal of Keep?
19:11 gonzalo walterbender: yes
19:11 garycmartin likely will need help with Physics to get the .so blob bits working on ARM.
19:12 walterbender will need to get the mic input working for Measure and Turtle Blocks
19:12 gonzalo walterbender: and maybe robots libraries
19:12 i want push a little the content we include in our build too
19:13 cjl would like to see the alsroot TamTam branch migration occur to fix a big thorn in the localizer's side.
19:13 gonzalo and i think cjl is in the same page
19:13 garycmartin has a BIOLOID (robot) if that can help with testing.
19:13 walterbender gonzalo: what content is under consideration?
19:13 cjl gonzalo: yes
19:13 gonzalo for example all the content bundles are a little old
19:13 and also the font selection is not very good
19:14 walterbender gonzalo: what do we ship these days beyond the wiki snapshots?
19:14 cjl I have a pounchlist fo L10n issues that would be nice to address, some will require Activity maintainer help.  http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Cjl/Honey_notes
19:14 dirakx cjl: btw, I think now pootle is pointing to the old tamtam branch.(and is presenting failures to commit).
19:14 garycmartin wishes we had solved the web view for activities so that all content could be migrated to Activities, rather than a hidden libraries directory.
19:15 gonzalo ok, we have a lot of interesting topics here, may be we can stop and talk about them
19:15 walterbender cjl: I can help with a few of those...
19:16 garycmartin gonzalo: any chance we can get the Memorize UI fixed up?
19:16 manuq garycmartin: I would like to help with it
19:16 gonzalo garycmartin, yes, manuq will work on this
19:16 cjl gonzalo: +1 Good to have a flood of ideas on table, now to focus one-by-one
19:16 walterbender shall we talk about toolbars first?
19:17 manuq OK! I have a list of activities that need care in the toolbars:
19:17 http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Manuq/11.3.0
19:17 garycmartin manuq: cool.
19:17 manuq in some, like memorize, work has been started already
19:18 walterbender I was wondering as well if we every decided on the icons for uploading and saving to the Journal, the gear vs the spanner vs some other icon for modifications, etc.
19:18 cjl manuq: Please make sure that toolbar work on tamTam takes place in new alsroot bracnch that combines the PO files.
19:18 garycmartin manuq: FWIW: I think some of the Record toolbar work can help finish of the Memorize needs.
19:18 walterbender I feel like my use of icons is very inconsistent across the various activities I maintain
19:19 manuq garycmartin: that's cool
19:19 walterbender love to clean them all up for 11.3.0
19:19 manuq cjl: sure, will do
19:19 gonzalo we need update http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/D[…]am/ToolbarCatalog
19:20 walterbender gonzalo: that is a catalog of where we are, not where we want to be
19:20 gonzalo i have a plan! :)
19:20 garycmartin walterbender: "decided on the icons" well I think we got close on some of those icons via the ML. Will need to go dig later.
19:20 walterbender maybe it is the subject of the design team, but finalizing all the outstanding icon issues would be a real win for 11.3.0
19:20 cjl Tag that for follow-up?
19:21 manuq walterbender: yes, it would be great
19:21 dirakx manuq: iirc correctly words has the new toolbars..TamTam is indeed the hardest to port.
19:21 walterbender #action design team to finalize toolbar icon designs
19:21 gonzalo i think we can distribute in this meeting the pending activities
19:22 garycmartin walterbender: that's one large sack of angry cats, but I'm sure we can solve some.
19:23 walterbender garycmartin, manuq: maybe aim for a Sunday meeting?
19:23 manuq is being very hard for me to attend sundays
19:23 garycmartin walterbender: toolbar icons and nothing else. Yea maybe we can make a dent.
19:23 walterbender manuq: please propose another time...
19:23 garycmartin manuq: what is a good day for you?
19:23 walterbender that works for you and gary
19:24 manuq what about wensdays?
19:24 walterbender OK with me
19:24 garycmartin manuq: sure Wednesdays should be fine. What time?
19:25 manuq s/wensdays/wednesday
19:25 I can in any time, now you decide :)
19:25 gonzalo i think if is earlier, simon can be present
19:25 garycmartin Same as usual design meeting 16:00 utc
19:25 manuq great for me!
19:26 walterbender garycmartin: OK. learning meeting is at 14:00 utc so that is perfect
19:26 garycmartin 15:00 utc if that's better for Simon?
19:26 OK lets go with 16:00 UTC. I'll email the ML and see where we get to.
19:26 manuq is sorry for changing the historically design meeting day
19:27 walterbender 15 is OK. Just not 14
19:27 gonzalo manuq, i think a weekly day will be better
19:27 walterbender OK... what is next?
19:27 garycmartin manuq: as long as you understand, if you break it, you fix it ;-)
19:27 cjl tag it with an action
19:28 manuq good! we'll need fast feedback for getting the toolbars done
19:28 walterbender #action design team will meet on Wednesdays
19:28 gonzalo # action 16hs UTC
19:28 walterbender #action 16UTC
19:28 gonzalo good :)
19:29 may be we can have the ToolbarCatalog updated for the next meeting?
19:29 any volunteer?
19:29 manuq I volunteer
19:30 #action manuq qill update the ToolbarCatalog in sugarlab's wiki for next design meeting
19:31 gonzalo ok, can we look at the list of activities with old toolbars and distribute them?
19:31 Cerlyn <Cerlyn!~cerlyn@173-12-75-9-miami.hfc.comcastbusiness.net> has joined #sugar-meeting
19:31 manuq oos, typo
19:31 walterbender manuq: np
19:31 garycmartin gonzalo: are there any activities we/deployments are bundling that are not on that catalog page? It was really to try and see we were covering the common cases first.
19:31 walterbender gonzalo: is that manuq's list?
19:31 gonzalo walterbender: yes
19:32 and the list of activities in 11.2.0 is here http://wiki.laptop.org/go/11.2.0/Activities
19:33 cjl see also http://download.laptop.org/xo-[…]74.activities.txt
19:33 garycmartin gonzalo: That list is for XO 1.5, for XO 1 they killed some of that stuff (Physics :()
19:33 walterbender seems like tamtam is the big one... I can help with that as I have done some CSound hacking
19:33 manuq walterbender: good!
19:33 dirakx walterbender: a little help with Tamtam is mostly welcomed. :).
19:34 manuq I have to learn the tamtam suit first
19:34 cjl walter alsroot has been working on a branch to combine into single POT
19:34 dirakx s/mostly/very
19:34 walterbender manuq: it was an early activity, so it is a bit out of date in some of its approaches
19:35 cjl TamTam is the source of amhy Poolte issues (bad migration from d.l.o)
19:35 tch has left #sugar-meeting
19:35 cjl A freshj start would be welcome
19:35 manuq cjl: I'll add that info in my list
19:35 walterbender cjl: I don't think a fresh start will be debuggable in time for 11.3.0
19:36 gonzalo walterbender,cjl, dirakx,manuq, may be TamTam is a topic to talk
19:36 garycmartin manuq: TamTam also used to be one single big activity with an equally large/deep UI, but was sliced up to slim each down. Unforunately the source code shows it's old history with lots of duplication and odd choices.
19:36 walterbender cjl: but I agree, it would be worthwhile
19:36 cjl walterbender: Not a compleyely fresh start, jsut a fresh POT
19:36 walterbender maybe Step One is to check in with alsroot...
19:37 cjl walterbender: +1
19:37 walterbender #action ping alsroot re his tamtam branch
19:37 dirakx: are you working on tamtam too?
19:37 dirakx walterbender: yeah..i'm a contributor.
19:38 walterbender: anyway we will need an ''offcial'' maintainer.
19:38 gonzalo a problem we have with tamtam, is we have a few contributors, but no one maintainer
19:38 dirakx gonzalo: +1.
19:38 walterbender dirakx: when was the last time someone tried contacting Jean Piche?
19:39 dirakx walterbender: wow..no idea. maybe aleksey has better info on that.
19:39 gonzalo who is Jean Piche?
19:39 walterbender gonzalo: the leader of the team that created tamtam
19:39 gonzalo: a friend from Montreal
19:39 gonzalo ohh
19:40 is possible contact him?
19:40 walterbender gonzalo: I don't see why not
19:40 FWIW, I am meeting with Barry Vercoe next month to go over some other CSound issues
19:41 #info Barry wrote CSound
19:41 cjl I volunteer to work with anyone on the pomigrate of existing L10n to new unified POT for TamTam
19:41 walterbender cjl: have you spoken with Roger aboud i18n for GoGo?
19:41 cjl walterbender: no
19:42 dmoc is listed as owner of http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/2929
19:42 gonzalo walterbender, do you know if csound works in arm?
19:42 walterbender cjl: I can put you in contact
19:43 cjl walterbender: great
19:43 Something odd happened with GoGo, ther was a POT at one point, but now it has gone away.
19:43 dirakx cjl: is this on the git code or just on pootle ?.
19:44 cjl At leasy no longer in git /po  we have POT in Poolte, but that situation is causing synch issues
19:44 walterbender cjl: there is POT file with v2
19:44 cjl May be a versiojning issue with Poolte
19:45 Not really sure, probably needs collab with activity maintainer to resolve
19:45 dirakx odd.
19:46 cjl no POT here  http://git.sugarlabs.org/gogo/[…]o/trees/master/po
19:46 gonzalo dirakx, cjl, maybe we can agree in another day to work together in pootle server
19:46 dirakx sure.
19:46 cjl gonzalo: Sure
19:46 One last L10n issue t oraise, promoting i18n of ASLO submissions
19:46 walterbender cjl: there is a POT file, but not where you were looking
19:47 http://git.sugarlabs.org/gogo/[…]ivity/po/GoGo.pot
19:47 cjl walterbender: That is wher ePoolte looks, so that may be the problem
19:47 That is probably the issue
19:47 manuq so, maybe we can distribute the work on new toolbars
19:47 gonzalo manuq +1
19:47 walterbender manuq: we are off-loading tamtam...
19:47 manuq a while ago I started working on finance and jukebox
19:48 walterbender: yeah
19:48 walterbender I thought we already did Memorize
19:48 gonzalo walterbender: no yet
19:48 garycmartin walterbender: very close but it stalled.
19:48 manuq garycmartin: what's the current status of memorize?
19:49 I remember a thing that simon didn't like
19:49 garycmartin manuq: Talk to you Wednesday 16:00 utc about it :-)
19:49 manuq ok!
19:49 walterbender who is the maintainer of Words?
19:49 cjb?
19:50 gonzalo dirakx?
19:50 garycmartin manuq: Very close, some interesting design issues, Record design work will help. One or two bumps to resolve.
19:50 dirakx yep.
19:50 manuq garycmartin: good
19:50 dirakx garycmartin: about memorize it would be nice to use the update speak onto it.
19:50 updated*
19:50 walterbender: gonzalo someone has pathces for it ?.
19:51 garycmartin dirakx: yea I saw that thread (was fighting Clock speech at the time).
19:51 dirakx garycmartin: np.
19:51 walterbender speaking of which, so we have a list of the binaries in the various activities that we'll need to look at for ARM?
19:51 gonzalo dirakx, i don't so
19:51 dirakx walterbender: +1.
19:51 gonzalo walterbender: yes, please finish with toolbar firest
19:51 first
19:51 cjl It would be nice if th3 espeak containing / calling activities didn't need a separate language lsit.  If they coudl get smart about glibc locale
19:52 gonzalo hey guys, can we finish with toolbars?
19:52 :)
19:52 dirakx #action dirakx to review words on new toolbars status.
19:52 gonzalo Help activity is already finished
19:53 garycmartin gonzalo: another reason we would do well to have a (stable) Sugar web view for activities.
19:53 manuq gonzalo: yes, I'm updating the wiki
19:54 gonzalo garycmartin: gtk3 ? :)
19:54 garycmartin: or are you talking about anything more?
19:54 walterbender gonzalo: a topic for Berlin next month
19:54 garycmartin gonzalo: "tomorrow, tomorrow, always tomorrow!" ;-)
19:54 dirakx :)
19:54 walterbender garycmartin: maybe not so far into the future...
19:55 garycmartin: rgs and I have most of hippo removed... that was Step One
19:55 gonzalo ok, if walterbender will work in TamTam* toolbars
19:56 pending are Memorize, Finance and Jukebox
19:56 Words is for dirakxand Help is ready
19:56 walterbender "What was I thinking?" :P
19:56 garycmartin walterbender: webkit vs mozilla. that's the politics I've felt has always stalled out this web view goal and let us in limbo.
19:57 walterbender garycmartin: OK... that is a separate discussion.
19:57 garycmartin lol
19:57 gonzalo yeah
19:57 dirakx garycmartin: agree.
19:57 cjl Re Help activity, any chance of getting it set up for i18n / L10n ?
19:58 gonzalo cjl, I think Help must be a content bundle or a epub book
19:58 cjl I've heard from people like Beth Santos (Sao Tome) that they really wanted it.  It woudl help smaller deployments a lot.
19:58 gonzalo: Yes, it is basically the XO FLOSSmanual
19:58 manuq I was working in Finance and Jukebox toolbars
19:59 gonzalo manuq, then may be i can take Memorize
19:59 dirakx gonzalo: also it can be modified to make somethink like turtle typing lessons does.
20:00 manuq gonzalo: good!
20:00 gonzalo dirakx, help?
20:00 dirakx gonzalo: yes.
20:00 gonzalo dirakx, yes but does not scale
20:00 dirakx truth.
20:00 gonzalo people, i think we can finish with toolbars topic
20:00 do you agree?
20:01 dirakx +1
20:01 walterbender on to binaries?
20:02 garycmartin hides behind the sofa
20:02 gonzalo and walterbender, if you see you do not have time to finish tamtam, tell me, i can help
20:02 cjl notes we are coming up on 60 minutes from start.
20:02 gonzalo garymartin, no so fast
20:02 walterbender gonzalo: won't know until after I speak with alsroot
20:02 gonzalo ok
20:02 walterbender gonzalo: I'll need some manuq  help on icons
20:02 manuq garycmartin: simon said to me that he would like to get Copy To functionality in 11.3.0
20:03 walterbender: of course!
20:03 gonzalo manuq, yes he has already started
20:03 garycmartin walterbender: will obviously help with tam-tam toolbar design items.
20:03 walterbender I'd love to see write to journal anytime in 11.3.0 too :P
20:03 garycmartin walterbender: +1!
20:04 gonzalo ha ha
20:04 ok, can we start with binaries? :)
20:04 walterbender if keep goes away we have room for a new icon :)
20:04 gonzalo: do we have a list of activities with .so files?
20:04 gonzalo hmm, let me see
20:04 manuq walterbender: I would like to see Edit source in the near time
20:05 garycmartin raises his hand, Physics. Bridge (same issue).
20:05 walterbender manuq: I'd like $HOME/Documents too
20:05 gonzalo walterbender: (Paint, Wikipedia, TamTam*, Browse (mozplugger?), Pippy (box2d?))
20:06 garycmartin: i have a question for you (and may be to dirakx too)
20:06 walterbender gonzalo: and lots of non-critical activities
20:06 garycmartin gonzalo: sure
20:06 gonzalo in physics is included the egg for box2d but in the .so
20:07 what is the best alternative for our work to ARM support?
20:08 garycmartin gonzalo: See… That's just what I was going to ask you!
20:08 gonzalo walterbender: yes i do not a have the full list
20:08 dirakx, walterbender: any idea?
20:08 ^^
20:09 garycmartin gonzalo: Brian Jordan, (one of the the original authors) did the last pass on that for us (folks working on physics). I need to get my head around the workflow he used to solve that one.
20:09 walterbender gonzalo: no idea
20:09 dirakx gonzalo: can we get some 1.75 B1 trough CP ?
20:09 just a though.
20:09 walterbender dirakx: yes... fill out the form!
20:10 gonzalo dirakx: of course!
20:10 dirakx walterbender: ok :).
20:10 walterbender we should get on to alsroot
20:10 ^on^one
20:10 cjl dirakx and make the arguemtn to martin_xsa on OLPC-devel
20:10 dirakx walterbender: +1.
20:11 That should help us on the ARM porting.
20:11 garycmartin gonzalo: For a long time I've thought that box2d, and sugargame (olpc game prior to that) should be in sugar spec so activities don't need to include them, but it's not clear who would take that decision (and it doesn't solve existing use needs).
20:11 cjl If the case is made clearly about the wide impact across multipel activities fo importance, I think it will be a successful request.
20:12 gonzalo garycmartin: i agree
20:12 i do not have very clear what is the state of sugargame/olpcgame
20:12 is this packaged?
20:13 dirakx gonzalo: not actively maintained. anyway maze has a patched version that supports backporting of toolbars.
20:13 of olpcgames that is.
20:13 gonzalo dirakx, but then we have different versions in every activity :/
20:14 dirakx yes :/
20:14 garycmartin gonzalo: sugar game is (I think) a saner, cleaner, simple way one building pygame based activities. Unfortunately Physics, Bridge (and a bunch of others) were all build in olpcgame. I still need to port over Physics (fairly high up my todo list).
20:14 walterbender dirakx: and for some reason, there is a hippo connection to olpcgame :(
20:15 dirakx walterbender: ugh,
20:15 garycmartin: agree with that. sugargame is better.
20:15 garycmartin walterbender: I just hate the dual threads. all kinds of weird work arounds needed, and some strange hard to debug crashes.
20:16 (work arounds related to gtk+ and threads)
20:16 gonzalo sugargame is only binding or have binaries too?
20:16 dirakx we need a maintainer for sugargames.
20:17 and as garycmartin says port all the activities that use pygame to sugargames instead of olpcgames.
20:17 garycmartin gonzalo: good question. pass. Just bindings I think, but I didn't go digging.
20:18 gonzalo: http://git.sugarlabs.org/sugargame
20:19 gonzalo: just bindings.
20:19 gonzalo and olpcgame have pygame binaries or use the packaged binaries?
20:21 dirakx gonzalo: it uses the packaged binaries. AIUI.
20:21 garycmartin gonzalo: olpcgame assumes pygame is already installed as part of the distro (that caused quite a few SoaS and Fedora feedback as pygame was not on the dep list last time I looked and sugar desktop packages).
20:22 walterbender is still waiting for git.sl.o to respond
20:23 garycmartin walterbender: yea it's reeeeal slow.
20:24 manuq yes
20:32 meeting <meeting!~sugaroid@jita.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting
20:32 gonzalo garycmartin: i am not worried about +1MB, but about maintenance
20:34 meeting <meeting!~sugaroid@jita.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting
20:35 gonzalo garycmartin: i will try, but i think was abandoned
20:35 garycmartin gonzalo: well I'd be all for box2d as a Sugar dep (though still doesn't solve supporting existing deployments). That way it get's built for the HW the build is intended for.
20:36 gonzalo then ..... returning to binaries ....
20:40 meeting_ <meeting_!~sugaroid@jita.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting
20:40 meeting has quit IRC
20:40 gonzalo i think are "de facto" dependecies
20:41 garycmartin gonzalo: bumpy is still in the builds right? (sorry haven't checked recently)
20:41 gonzalo bumpy?
20:41 walterbender do you mean numpy?
20:41 garycmartin bumpy lol, bumpy. Please curse the Apple Lion god of autocomplete!
20:42 arch, and again, numpy!!!
20:42 tch <tch!~tch@195.98.23.190.res.adsl.dyn.click.com.py> has joined #sugar-meeting
20:42 walterbender hmm. I recall numpy going away...
20:43 gonzalo i can do import numpy
20:43 walterbender looks in Measure and TA
20:43 alsroot dirakx: walterbender: "anyway we will need an ''offcial'' maintainer." I guess there is a misunderstanding :), we have even 4 maints but we don't have active devs (to think/implement new features)
20:44 gonzalo hi alsroot, are you talking about tamtam?
20:45 dirakx alsroot: so we need more work on development. ok great.
20:45 walterbender garycmartin: Measure still used numpy
20:45 garycmartin gonzalo: fab, year just tried here as well. It's still in. Phew!
20:45 alsroot gonzalo: yup
20:45 walterbender garycmartin: as does the audio-sensor plugin for TA
20:45 alsroot: have you tried reaching out to the Jean Piche team?
20:45 alsroot: in any case, if I work on new toolbars, is there a branch I should start from?
20:47 alsroot walterbender: the Flipo on #sugar is the one from former TamTam team, didn't meet another former devs
20:47 walterbender: there is http://git.sugarlabs.org/tamtam, it is the new one and we are in the process to migrate to it from http://git.sugarlabs.org/tamtam-branch
20:47 walterbender alsroot: we should reach out to the team at Montreal just to see if there is any interest in staying involved.
20:48 alsroot: OK. I'll clone from there and start experimenting
20:49 alsroot walterbender: Flipo was talked about his possible meeting w/ some other devs (maybe 10m ago) but, afiak it didn't happen. at least he is not informed me (when I pinged him these days) about new afforts form original devs
20:49 walterbender alsroot: I will write to Jean Piche and ask him
20:49 gonzalo alsroot, did you already pushed your l10n work?
20:50 cjl very happy to see new TamTam bracnh move forward and renews offer to collab on pomigrate of existing L10ns
20:50 alsroot gonzalo: the new http://git.sugarlabs.org/tamtam is ready to use on code level. the showstopper is when pootle will use it on regular basis
20:51 cjl alsroot: dirakx and gonzalo and  Ishould schedule a Poolte meeting sooninsh
20:51 dirakx alsroot: i.e pointing pootle to new branch ?.
20:52 alsroot dirakx: yup
20:52 dirakx alsroot: k.
20:52 gonzalo is not better include the work from alsroot in mainline?
20:53 alsroot gonzalo: the thing is that the mainline is exactly http://git.sugarlabs.org/tamtam (and former http://git.sugarlabs.org/tamtam-branch) :)
20:53 at least all recent features were implemented there
20:54 gonzalo alsroot, sorry i am lost, is a new repository or a new branch?
20:54 dirakx new repo
20:54 gonzalo ok
20:54 cjl As long a the POT has different name (e.g. TamTam.pot) I can start doing pomigrate work in preparation for Poolte set-up
20:55 alsroot gonzalo: there was http://git.sugarlabs.org/tamtam-branch that was created as a "branch" but since where not any dev efforts (and even bug fixes) on dev.l.o. it started to be main trunk (and now it is http://git.sugarlabs.org/tamtam)
20:55 walterbender is cloning
20:55 gonzalo alsroot, thanks, i understand now
20:55 cjl Where is the unified POT?
20:56 Ah, TamTamSuite.pot
20:56 alsroot cjl: http://git.sugarlabs.org/tamta[…]o/TamTamSuite.pot
20:56 cjl alsroot: Thanks
20:56 I'll start working on the pomirgate work
20:56 garycmartin is sorry, but needs to dive off in a couple of min.
20:58 cjl dirakx Can you add that POT to Poolte?
20:58 dirakx cjl sure
20:58 cjl We'll need another addlangs run probaably
20:59 garycmartin I'll read the rest of meeting log later, thanks all, good to have an Activity meeting after all this time! Night.
20:59 cjl bye garycmartin
20:59 garycmartin has left #sugar-meeting
20:59 gonzalo walterbender: can we define a action about binaries?
20:59 cjl Chair, next topic?
21:00 walterbender #action we'll include box2d and olpcgames
21:00 anything else?
21:00 cjl I'd lioke to remind Activity team to nicely lean on ASLO contributors about i18n.
21:00 gonzalo port from olpcgame to sugargame?
21:01 walterbender gonzalo: will we really do that for 11.3.0?
21:01 alsroot is still on the way to have decent PMS in sugar and dealing w/ each binaries. I'm eventually going to announce 1st public release that is ready to public test at aug 18
21:01 gonzalo walterbender: probably no
21:01 alsroot s/and dealing/and not dealing/
21:02 gonzalo i am thinking what to do with olpcgames/sugargames
21:02 i think the action must be include box2d
21:02 olpcgames donot have binaries
21:02 right?
21:02 walterbender gonzalo: we need to either update olpcgames to not use hippo or replace it with sugargames sooner than later
21:03 alsroot gonzalo: but box2d is a separate project/package, eg, fedora has it as a package
21:03 gonzalo walterbender: yes, but is a different issue
21:04 alsroot, yes, we are trying include it like a dependecy, to not include in the activities
21:04 walterbender #action revert last #action
21:04 #action add box2d as a Sugar dependency
21:04 alsroot walterbender: you mean to Sugar Platform ?
21:05 gonzalo alsroot: yes
21:05 walterbender seems a bit extreme, but...
21:05 would like to see the core dependency list be very small
21:06 alsroot well, that was exactly to reason to code sugar pms to avoid such thing. we can't include all deps that activity use to SP
21:06 eg , java
21:06 gonzalo may be we can have a "blessed dependecies" list
21:07 alsroot gonzalo: one more "well" :), such talking were started tight after announcing SP, ie several years :)
21:08 for me, all these talked evoluted to coding sugar pms
21:08 *talks
21:08 gonzalo alsroot, yeah probably, but right now we are trying to resolve the issue with a few libraries
21:09 alsroot gonzalo: thats a good point but only as a urgent close stop, imho all time relying on that is a deadlock
21:09 *step
21:10 (and for me such close steps were happening for ~2y)
21:10 once more, that was exactly the reason to work on sugar pms
21:11 gonzalo alsroot, i understand, but we need short term and long term solutions
21:11 about the plataform here http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Sugar_Architecture
21:11 i can't see abiword or evince
21:11 like dependencies
21:11 alsroot gonzalo: yup, I'm personally +1 for that. but people need to undestand that it is a forced decision
21:12 gonzalo alsroot: ok, we are in the same page
21:12 alsroot gonzalo: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0[…]atform_Components
21:13 walterbender alsroot: at another time, I'd like to pick your brain re plugins and SP
21:14 cjl not celar on acronyms sp and pms
21:14 alsroot oops, wiki ling is outdated, but we definitely had it
21:15 walterbender: sure, in short, all my though are implemented in sweets :)
21:15 gonzalo alsroot, the last is 0.88 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0[…]atform_Components
21:15 alsroot ..for that case
21:15 walterbender cjl: I have an i18n issue with plugins too
21:16 cjl Are tehy upstream. like evince?
21:16 gonzalo walterbender: we can start with i18n, right?
21:17 walterbender gonzalo: where is hippo on that list?
21:17 gonzalo walterbender: i don't know :)
21:18 cjl Gnash?
21:18 walterbender cjl: I think that was a deployment-level dependency
21:18 cjl GNOME platform link at bottom si 404
21:19 walterbender: Okay, I know flash sometimes replaces gnash
21:20 walterbender cjl: I am guessing the broken link should be pointing to something like http://developer.gnome.org/pla[…]rm-overview/2.32/
21:20 we should move on... 2+ hours so far
21:21 manuq yeah
21:21 gonzalo cjl, do you want talk about i18n?
21:21 walterbender re i18n, my issue is with plugins... no need to discuss that today, but I don't know how to fold it into the workflow
21:22 cjl walter a lot of that is tracked in http://translate.sugarlabs.org/es/upstream_l10n/ and http://l10n.gnome.org/languages/es/olpc/ui/ (to sue lang-es as an example).
21:22 alsroot walterbender: for plugins you mean activity deps?
21:22 cjl Do you have a list of plugins?
21:22 gonzalo walterbender: the pluggins packaged with turtleart?
21:23 walterbender alsroot: I mean TA plugins specifically, but more generally extensions to activities
21:23 cjl walterbender: Send me a list of TA plugins and I'll see fi I can find their L10n homes
21:24 gonzalo walterbender, but we do not have a way to distribute plugins yet
21:24 a .xop :)
21:24 cjl My listing of upstreams is incomplete, but I have a spreadsheet I can share with you that I've been populating from the 11.2.0 packages list.
21:24 walterbender gonzalo: yes... but we will need one. But this is why I said we should defer the conversation
21:25 gonzalo: I have a popular new plugin that is country-specific
21:26 gonzalo walterbender: ok, is a separated issue
21:26 cjl walterbender: Let me know how I can help
21:27 walterbender cjl: we'll need help thinking through a workflow and how to populate PO files
21:27 cjb has quit IRC
21:28 cjl Ok, I'll need a better sense of what packages you are talking about and wher etehy are developed.
21:30 gonzalo guys, anything more?
21:30 cjb <cjb!~cjb@bob.laptop.org> has joined #sugar-meeting
21:31 dirakx no more from my side.
21:31 cjl Angry birds port?  :-)
21:32 gonzalo cjl, i don't know but the humble indie bundles ...
21:32 walterbender nothing else relevant for 11.3.0 today
21:32 manuq nothing else for me
21:32 walterbender end meeting?
21:32 cjl yep
21:32 walterbender #endmeeting
21:32 meeting_ Meeting ended Wed Jul 27 21:32:43 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
21:32 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-27T19:07:37.html
21:32 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]11-07-27T19:07:37
21:32 gonzalo yep, thanks all!!!!
21:32 nice meeting
21:32 walterbender thanks for organizing it.
21:33 gonzalo thanks for chair it :)
21:34 manuq ok! see you all, good night
21:36 dirakx thanks all
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