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#sugar-meeting, 2011-06-26

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16:15 walterbender manuq: not sure if there is a meeting today
16:18 silbe walterbender, manuq: I'm here for the meeting. Not sure about garycmartin and Christian.
16:20 walterbender: Gary and I had a session about the design changes for the NM 0.9 port a week or two back. Maybe you have some more feedback? We should get the ball rolling on this since it's a lot of effort on the implementation side.
16:21 walterbender, manuq: See http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]-June/031679.html
16:22 See also http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]11-06-05T16:17:34 for what we've talked about.
16:39 manuq hi walterbender, hi silbe!
16:39 walterbender hi manuq...
16:39 reading
16:40 manuq is reading the log of past meeting too
16:41 silbe Mockup for the "Forget favorite network" feature Gary suggested: http://sascha.silbe.org/tmp/sugar-ap-forget.png
16:41 (I already have a patch that works except for removing the connection from the config file, i.e. it will reappear after a restart)
16:46 I'd like to discuss two different topics first, though (because they are more important): a) Connecting to hidden SSIDs and b) deactivating device classes (wifi, wwan=modems).
16:46 walterbender silbe: connecting to hidden SSIDs seems to be a pressing need in some schools
16:46 manuq silbe, interesting discussion, sorry I have to leave now
16:47 walterbender is deactivating device classes pressing?
16:47 manuq I'll keep reading about the new network manager on the list
16:47 silbe walterbender: it definitely is in AU. They have to cope with a lot of problematic set-ups of existing equipment in general...
16:48 manuq: ok, see you next week then. Have a nice day!
16:48 manuq silbe, walterbender, see you next week! bye
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16:49 silbe I'll start the meeting so my answers get logged in the meeting log...
16:49 #startmeeting
16:49 meeting Meeting started Sun Jun 26 16:49:13 2011 UTC. The chair is silbe. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:49 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
16:49 silbe #topic design changes for the NetworkManager 0.9 port
16:50 #link http://sascha.silbe.org/tmp/sugar-ap-forget.png Mockup for the "Forget favorite network" feature Gary suggested
16:50 walterbender silbe: we need a #subtopic command :P
16:50 silbe I'd like to discuss two different topics first, though (because they are more important): a)  Connecting to hidden SSIDs and b) deactivating device classes (wifi, wwan=modems).
16:50 hehe
16:51 < walterbender> silbe: connecting to hidden SSIDs seems to be a pressing need in some schools
16:51 < walterbender> is deactivating device classes pressing?
16:51 walterbender: Deactivating network devices is an easy way to increase battery life whenever you know you won't have connectivity anyway
16:52 walterbender silbe: agreed
16:53 silbe: I guess I need to read the last meeting log more carefully, but I don't see why this (deactivating) isn't strictly a CP UI issue
16:53 silbe let's discuss the hidden SSID option first, it's probably less controversial
16:54 walterbender sure
16:54 silbe walterbender: it's a matter of convenience. Some laptops even have hardware buttons for this reason.
16:54 walterbender silbe: I assume that if the buttons get pushed, the CP will somehow reflect that...
16:55 silbe my idea is to add a "Connect to hidden network" menu item to the AP device(s) in the Frame.
16:55 walterbender more of a low-level thing than a UI thing... some period sync with whatever NM is tracking
16:56 silbe: that makes sense...
16:57 as long as we have whatever enabled devices have some appearance there... grayed or hollowed out
16:57 then there is a place to hang the dialog
16:58 silbe walterbender: the interesting part is what happens when the user chooses the item. (Another) modal dialog? Switch to the network CP section, showing an "add connection" screen? Or add an entry field for the SSID to the palette?
16:59 walterbender I'd prefer to keep the jumping around and modal dialogs to a minimum.
16:59 silbe walterbender: the Frame device stays across both disconnect and disable
17:00 walterbender silbe: yeah... but if I want to connect when it is disabled, then going to the CP to enable it seems OK. (or pushing the dedicated button). I wouldn't make a priority to make the auto jump from the frame to the CP
17:00 and once it is enabled, then it would have the menu option for connecting to a hidden AP
17:01 extras steps, but pretty simple: if you are not enabled, you cannot play.
17:01 silbe walterbender: agreed on disabling everything else if the device (class) is deactivated
17:03 walterbender: I would still like to expose the (De)activate option in the Frame, though - it's something I do rather often and would expect others to do the same if there's a convenient way to do so (the XO doesn't have a hardware button for this).
17:04 walterbender silbe: I am OK with it... just a lesser priority...
17:05 silbe (I guess the lack of the hardware button was a design decision since the mesh was supposed to be activate even when the XO was "turned off")
17:05 walterbender silbe: yes... no longer relevant
17:06 silbe walterbender: nice. FWIW, the implementation is going to be quite easy for the deactivate wifi/wwan stuff. I'll probably post a patch later today so people can try it out.
17:07 walterbender silbe: re hidden AP, is there something tricky I am overlooking?
17:08 silbe: once we have a name, we can make it appear in the Neighborhood
17:08 silbe walterbender: only that we need to know the name. After that it's the same issue as with "regular" networks.
17:09 walterbender silbe: right... so adding a text entry in the frame when you select hidden AP should be enough?
17:10 silbe: here is a half-baked idea: why not use the search input field in the neighborhood view to also look for hidden APs?
17:10 silbe walterbender: medium to long term I'd like to get rid of the "key dialog". Gary mentioned we may be able to expose this functionality in the network CP panel instead and offer an explicit "Switch to network settings" menu item.
17:10 walterbender: interesting idea, though not really intuitive (to me)
17:12 walterbender let's see what Gary thinks...
17:12 silbe walterbender: so the user would a) choose "Connect to hidden network", b) enter the SSID into the text field that just appeared in the same palette and c) choose "Connect to hidden SSID" again?
17:13 walterbender silbe: why not just (b)?
17:13 silbe walterbender: how do we know when the user has finished entering the SSID?
17:14 walterbender silbe: we don't... so we will have to scan perhaps too much
17:14 this is why it is half-baked :)
17:16 silbe walterbender: I'm not sure that'll work well enough on the lower levels. Connectivity is already problematic due to bugs in all layers (hardware, firmware, driver, NM, Sugar), let's not add more complexity at least until it works well enough.
17:17 walterbender silbe: OK
17:18 silbe and let's hope users don't need this option more than once a year. It's bad enough that they need it at all.
17:19 if we want to automate this a bit more, we could set up a monitor interface and check all connection attempts for hidden SSIDs. That way only the first user would need to enter the SSID. ;)
17:20 walterbender interesting idea
17:21 silbe: but in the spirit of things we can do today, a simple entry field???
17:21 silbe A similar measure has been suggested on the NM list recently: automatically crack WEP networks instead of prompting for the password. The poster wasn't serious, of course, but the idea is compelling.
17:22 walterbender: some combination of text entry field and menu item / button I guess. I hoped somebody else has a good idea.
17:25 walterbender silbe: but I think we are converging on consensus that this all happens from the device on the Frame...
17:26 silbe walterbender: good. Maybe I'll just do some bad mock-up and wait for others to suggest improvements.
17:27 (not bad on purpose, but rather because my design skills are lacking)
17:30 walterbender: any idea what a good wording for the "disable all wireless devices" option would be? It should make clear that not just the current device gets deactivated, but all wireless related ones (including AdHoc).
17:30 walterbender silbe: it is nice that we have more than one active designer these days... manuq is picking up a lot of loose ends for us!
17:31 silbe walterbender: yes, I'm very glad about that!
17:31 walterbender "disable all wireless devices" seems straightforward enough. even more simple: "turn off all radios"
17:32 AFAIK, all wireless devices are radios :)
17:32 silbe walterbender: do you know where he's located? (context: we wanted to do a real-life meeting in Germany or UK this year)
17:32 walterbender .ar
17:32 he came to the Sugar Camp in .uy
17:32 silbe walterbender: Would that fit on screen? :)
17:34 walterbender: ok, so a rather long and expensive trip... Maybe we can get some entity to sponsor him (assuming he's interested in joining the DesignCamp).
17:38 walterbender anything else for today? I am getting pulled away
17:41 silbe walterbender: let's finish for today. I'll do the mock-ups for hidden SSID and deactivate wifi and post them together with the forget connection one. Then we can discuss them either on list or next Sunday. Eventually we'll have to discuss the multiple-connection and network configuration ones, but let's do the easy ones first so we get going.
17:42 and maybe I should purchase a UMTS stick so I can post screenshots of what the 3G stuff currently looks like...
17:43 walterbender I should probably discover that world as well... the service is expensive here in Boston.
17:43 well, talk to you later. Thanks.
17:43 silbe walterbender: thanks as well!
17:43 #endmeeting
17:43 meeting Meeting ended Sun Jun 26 17:43:56 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
17:43 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-26T16:49:13.html
17:43 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]11-06-26T16:49:13
17:44 silbe walterbender: have a nice day
17:44 walterbender I will keep pounding my head away at removing HippoCanvas... not as easy as I thought it would be.
17:44 CU
17:45 silbe walterbender: looking forward to it. BTW, IIRC both tomeu and erikos have branches with the HippoCanvas-removal work.
17:46 I wanted to give it a try as well, but got stuck early on. The Home View is going to get tricky.
17:47 There's something in GTK that might work (GtkLayout? don't remember too well), but I still couldn't wrap my head around it after a day or two.
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