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#sugar-meeting, 2011-04-21

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01:03 christianmarcsch <christianmarcsch!~christian@cpe-24-193-242-220.nyc.res.rr.com> has joined #sugar-meeting
01:03 christianmarcsch hi everyone
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01:04 JT4sugar Hi Christian & Mike
01:04 mikedevine hey John
01:06 JT4sugar christianmarcsch, I think we are waiting on JT, Bernie, and Dogi although Dogi may be on
01:06 christianmarcsch JT4sugar: sounds good, i'll stand by
01:08 mikedevine JT texted me saying he's running a bit late
01:10 JT4sugar I spoke with Prof McEneaney today about Beta-testing site his PHD class begins May 3rd runs to June 16th he would like to make this part of class when do you think we could have site ready for some testing or get test materials into his hands?
01:11 christianmarcsch JT4sugar: i think that really depends largely on the content. the design is coming along, but i'm at a point where i really need to start working with some actual materials for placement.
01:12 JT4sugar: in theory, june 16th sounds realistic though
01:13 mikedevine christian: i've slowly been adding content as i get it on the google docs. mostly images
01:13 JT4sugar christianmarcsch, June 16th is when his class ends-starts May 3rd. Do we think we will have anything to show community at Uruguay Summit May 5-8
01:14 christianmarcsch JT4sugar: again i'd need to turn to JT and Mike. we could certainly have design comps to show, but right now i'm still using lorem ipsum for placeholder and we don't yet have any imagery or other content
01:14 i'll send out a link to the latest work
01:16 JT4sugar christianmarcsch, If content is coming in to slowly and will take longer to put in place I will let him know it looks like their would be chance to work with him in Fall
01:16 christianmarcsch JT4sugar: so far i actually don't have any content besides the images that mike sent two weeks ago
01:17 JT4sugar: it's not important that we have everything now, but i was hoping at least for a few sample materials (case studies, etc.), as well as copy that needs to be written for the individual sections
01:18 mikedevine christian: yeah i haven't gotten any of that really
01:18 christianmarcsch mikedevine: i know you two were busy last week with the microsite
01:18 JT4sugar mikedevine, Any luck with content from pinging people through OLPC Map approach?
01:19 mikedevine yeah that's where io've gotten the most responses
01:19 it's just tedious because it means emailing each marker on the map 1 by 1 lol
01:19 most of the replies are offers to help rather than actual content, but i've gotten a bit
01:19 dogi is cocking and locking only from time to time in the chat
01:20 christianmarcsch mikedevine: that's a good start... could i suggest that we create a dropbox folder to store all the assets?
01:21 mikedevine: we can create subfolders for each content type
01:21 mikedevine well the google docs has that
01:21 in the call for content section
01:21 christianmarcsch mikedevine: i think we should move the assets to dropbox, it will make it a lot easier to work
01:22 mikedevine: do you have an account?
01:22 mikedevine no not yet
01:22 christianmarcsch mikedevine: why don't you go ahead and set one up--it's a great tool to have access to!
01:23 mikedevine: i'll send out an invitation to a folder we can all use
01:23 mikedevine ok
01:23 christianmarcsch by the way, the latest comps are here:
01:23 http://christianmarcschmidt.co[…]ojects/sugarlabs/
01:23 i've cleaned them up a bit, still not 100% but getting there
01:24 JT4sugar christianmarcsch, What I think would be helpful would to see what we can put in place and come up with list of things we feel are missing. I can make that as part of my mission in Uruguay to tap community. I'm about 80% sure I'm going
01:24 christianmarcsch the templates are mostly worked out, though i'm missing the press page and the homepage, as well as any other unique pagetypes
01:24 m_anish is now known as m_anish_afk
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01:25 christianmarcsch JT4sugar: that sounds good. JT had a list of content types already, we can use that as a starting point to figure out what we need to gather. right now i think we are missing pretty much everything :)
01:25 mikedevine: do you actually have a link handy to JT's list?
01:26 mikedevine hm.. no i don't think so
01:26 if he emailed it to me he would've forwarded it to you too
01:27 christianmarcsch can you open this link: https://spreadsheets.google.co[…]ey=COeo2cQP#gid=0
01:28 mikedevine yeah i've got it
01:28 christianmarcsch JT4sugar: try opening the link i sent
01:28 mikedeinve: great
01:28 this is the spreadsheet JT put together
01:29 not everything is accurate--i can highlight the main content areas now
01:29 JT4sugar Got it
01:30 christianmarcsch hmm, actually i think we should start a new doc
01:31 mikedevine: remember in the last call we said we should create a working document to start filling in all of the content for the site?
01:31 mikedevine wasn't that referring to the google docs?
01:31 christianmarcsch mikedevine: either way--but i think we should have a working file that we can add text and images to
01:32 mikedevine: i think i still have an example for the original OLPC website, 1sec
01:32 m_anish is now known as m_anish_afk
01:34 christianmarcsch mikedevine: i can
01:34 mikedevine: i can't find it right now
01:34 mikedevine: but i can create a strawman for us
01:35 mikedevine what would the format be for something like that?
01:36 JT4sugar christianmarcsch, Do you see this as a place we need help from Infra guys(Bernie-Dogi) to set up things in GIT or elsewhere to work on mock site?
01:37 christianmarcsch JT4sugar: well, i think it is still a little early frankly, though it can't hurt to have that conversation. but to really know all the parameters we need the design to be locked, and the only way to get there is to have some sample content to work with.
01:38 JT4sugar christianmarcsch, Understand
01:40 christianmarcsch JT4sugar, mikedevine: i just shared a strawman google doc, you'll find the link in your email
01:42 mikedevine ok
01:42 JT4sugar christianmarcsch, What is best method to place content Mike and JT have collected, pieces we take from old site, then decide what still needs to be created, and what pieces need to be updated, rewritten, made less technical
01:43 christianmarcsch JT4sugar: i think we should author each page inside this google document. we can put images etc. in the document for placement to have a sense of what each page would feel like. in addition, we should store the original image/video files in a dropbox folder. i'll create one now and send out an invitation.
01:45 mikedevine: are you able to view the document?
01:47 mikedevine yeah ive got it open
01:47 JT4sugar dogi, Do you see Sugar on a browser work as part of new website? If so are there technical issues to discuss with Christian? I know this might not be ready right away but would like as part of design if it will be in future
01:48 christianmarcsch JT4sugar, mikedevine: I just shared a dropbox folder with a strawman folder structure to store assets in
01:49 dogi JT4sugar, yes it could be part of the new website ...
01:50 JT4sugar christianmarcsch, Setting up account
01:50 dogi but right now I m not near to be ready for endusers
01:50 JT4sugar christianmarcsch, Have you seen Dogi's Sugar in browser work?
01:51 christianmarcsch JT4sugar: no, not yet...
01:51 dogi seeing it more as a live show for certian activities ...
01:51 JT4sugar dogi, Can you share link with Christian so he can understand and help him think how it will fit into design when ready
01:52 dogi http://one.treehouse.su:443/vn[…]assword=sugarbush
01:52 for example
01:53 christianmarcsch dogi: wow! this is amazing!
01:53 dogi christianmarcsch, ty :)
01:53 christianmarcsch JT4sugar, dogi: we definitely need to add this to the site!
01:54 JT4sugar christianmarcsch, Possible get to know Sugar tool along with possible training tool for activities with teachers
01:55 mikedevine maybe even a live demo of activities on the activitiers page
01:55 christianmarcsch JT4sugar: definitely
01:55 mikedevine at least in a more final versionn maybe
01:56 christianmarcsch dogi:  where is this being hosted? how would we allow people to set up an account to use this?
01:56 bernie <bernie!~bernie@gateway/shell/sugarlabs.org/x-cbblbzzndlhdnahv> has joined #sugar-meeting
01:56 bernie sorry for being late
01:56 dogi christianmarcsch, right now it is all hosted on mit medialab infrastructure
01:57 and on my devel machine dextra.treehouse.su
01:57 JT4sugar Hi Bernie
01:57 christianmarcsch bernie: hi, no worries
01:57 mikedevine: take another look at the google doc--i've filled in the section patterns a bit more
01:58 mikedevine: for example the "educational benefits" section
01:58 dogi right now I m working on something to make endusers (teachers) automatically able to access it but I have some problems which i need to solve there
01:58 mikedevine ah i see
01:58 christianmarcsch dogi: it's running a little slow on my end... will the performance get better?
01:58 dogi what I would like to have is an proposed frame for this sugar in the browser window ...
01:59 mikedevine sothisll be used in conjunction with the dropbox?
02:01 christianmarcsch mikedevine: yes. the google document is for final text copy and for-placement images/video thumbnails. the dropbox folder is for the original assets (original sizes)
02:01 mikedevine ok
02:02 bernie is reading the backlog
02:02 christianmarcsch mikedevine: i can format the images as needed later on
02:02 JT4sugar dogi, When ready how do you see as part of website? It's own page?
02:02 mikedevine so then i'll begin moving the items from the google docs into the dropbox
02:02 christianmarcsch mikedevine: that would be best i think
02:03 dogi JT4sugar, I think the box of sugar is able to be everywhere on the page
02:04 christianmarcsch JT4sugar: now that bernie is here, how do you want to start the "technical" conversation?
02:04 JT4sugar bernie, From infrastructure point of view do you have questions for Christian or RIT guys?
02:04 christianmarcsch bernie: FYI, the latest comps are here: http://christianmarcschmidt.co[…]ojects/sugarlabs/
02:05 bernie: very rough still, since we are missing content
02:05 bernie JT4sugar: i need some more time to read the backog before i can ask insightful questions :-)
02:06 christianmarcsch: wow, the mock-ups look awesome!
02:06 christianmarcsch bernie: thanks! but they still need more work :)
02:07 JT4sugar christianmarcsch, While Bernie reads what are your thoughts on where Sugar in Browser might fit?
02:07 bernie christianmarcsch: one question for you would be: would you feel comfortable uploading the static web site using git? I can assist you on jabber or irc
02:09 christianmarcsch bernie: i can definitely try git
02:09 bernie: question is whether we want to try to build the site in rails
02:09 bernie christianmarcsch: another question is: will the website be 100% static? (in the sense, no server-side stuff such as php, etc)
02:09 christianmarcsch bernie: right. static would be easiest, but we discussed possibly using the ruby on rails framework with database integration
02:10 bernie: it depends on how much time we have in the end, and how much content there is
02:10 JT4sugar: for sugar in a browser, i think we should have a link in the "about the software" section
02:11 bernie christianmarcsch: i'm not opposed to using a framework, but rails by itself doesn't do anything. we'd need to write a web application or install one a CRM of some kind (some of which are based on rails)
02:11 christianmarcsch: sorry, I meant CMS, not CRM
02:12 christianmarcsch: if we need to block on some developer to write the code, i'd start by deploying a 100% static website and then think of adding dynamic parts or import the content into a CMS.
02:12 christianmarcsch bernie: actually, ruby on rails provides a CMS as part of the framework
02:12 bernie: http://rubyonrails.org/
02:12 bernie: but we can definitely go static
02:14 bernie christianmarcsch: yes, i guess Rails can be seen as a CMS in itself, although a very low-level one: the available components need to be glued together with a little amount of code and templates...
02:15 christianmarcsch: if we want non-programmers to maintain it, I'd recommend something like Drupal, which has an easy admin interface for a lot of things.
02:15 christianmarcsch bernie: that depends. i've actually written an admin tool using rails that can make updating content on the site very easy
02:15 bernie: i haven't used drupal but we can certainly look into that if you think it makes sense
02:15 bernie christianmarcsch: ah, if you're already experienced with it, then it's the best choice for us
02:16 JT4sugar christianmarcsch, Will you put a place holder or note for Sugar in browser in "about the software" so we keep it in mind and put in place when ready
02:16 christianmarcsch JT4sugar: will do
02:17 bernie christianmarcsch: what do you need me to deploy to get you started? just an empty rails app (rake init) ?
02:18 christianmarcsch bernie: yes, that would be great
02:18 bernie christianmarcsch: do you need shell access so you can run rake yourself and install gems etc?
02:18 christianmarcsch bernie: i believe so. are we running an apache server?
02:18 dogi christianmarcsch, one?
02:18 sure :)
02:19 christianmarcsch dogi: oh... :)
02:19 mchua_afk is now known as mchua
02:20 dogi I have heard that for development rake provides with a really powerfull ruby httpd
02:21 christianmarcsch dogi: oh really?
02:21 dogi, bernie: just FYI, here is a site i deployed using rails: http://mondocane.com/
02:22 dogi, bernie: it also has a custom admin tool that the store owners use to update the content
02:23 JT4sugar mikedevine, Is Ruby going to provide what we need for Teacher forums or do you guys have something else in mind to add in that capability
02:24 bernie christianmarcsch: i had seen this site, but i hadn't realized it was rails. cool.
02:25 JT4sugar: i think it's better to build additional functionality using separate applications off the shelf
02:25 christianmarcsch bernie: +1. it may be tricky to integrate forums
02:26 bernie JT4sugar: there are plenty of good forum applications that we could install and skin so they look like they're integral part of our infrastructure and users can seamlessly switch from the website to the forums.
02:26 christianmarcsch: to connect all web applications together, we use a navbar like Google.
02:27 christianmarcsch bernie: ?
02:27 bernie christianmarcsch: you can see it here:
02:27 http://download.sugarlabs.org/
02:27 http://chat.sugarlabs.org
02:27 christianmarcsch bernie: right, right
02:27 bernie: though we might want to redesign it :)
02:27 bernie here too: http://git.sugarlabs.org/
02:28 JT4sugar bernie, Could you share with Mike and JT at RIT on forum applications you think will work well with our infrastructure so they can begin to play with and mock up some demos
02:28 christianmarcsch bernie: it's not consistent... is it hosted locally?
02:28 bernie christianmarcsch: sure, I think it should look better... and look the same on all sites
02:28 christianmarcsch: currently, it looks bad on many sites, including the wiki and the bug tracker
02:29 mikedevine for the forums it's pretty much its own framework i believe
02:29 bernie JT4sugar, mikedevine: i have no personal experience running a forum, but phpBB is a very popular one: http://www.phpbb.com/
02:29 mikedevine yeah that's the one we were looking at
02:30 dogi bernie, +1
02:30 bernie mikedevine, JT4sugar: OLPC uses phpBB for their forums: http://en.forum.laptop.org/
02:30 mikedevine, JT4sugar: OLPCnews uses something else, but it's proprietary
02:33 christianmarcsch folks, i'm going to have to leave soon...
02:33 should we capture our "action items" moving forward?
02:34 bernie christianmarcsch: to answer your previous question: yes, it's hand-made in each web application we host... we need to find a better way to handle this
02:34 christianmarcsch bernie: i have old designs for a persistent navbar that we can bring back
02:35 bernie christianmarcsch: besides, we have too many links to list them all... so we tend to hide the developers' oriented links such as API and Patches in non-developers sites (wiki, chat...)
02:36 JT4sugar christianmarcsch, After Mike and JT move things to google doc and drop box what are key next steps and timeline you see
02:36 bernie christianmarcsch: can this navbar be tacked on existing web applications with minimal change to the code? currently, we have to hack the links into templates and skins in a very crude manner.
02:37 christianmarcsch bernie: i think we should treat the navbar as a separate project. could you own? then we can work together to figure out the information architecture and the design
02:37 JT4sugar: starting with the content
02:38 bernie #link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C[…]um_software_(PHP)
02:38 #link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C[…]_software_(other)
02:38 christianmarcsch: sure, i can help by installing it in all apps
02:39 christianmarcsch JT4sugar, mikedevine: we need a draft of all written content for the website in the google doc so that i can finalize the design.
02:39 bernie christianmarcsch: i've been wanting to do this for a long time, but I lacked the necessary web design skill
02:40 christianmarcsch JT4sugar, mikedevine: it can still change later, but i need to be able to gage text length and general messaging
02:40 bernie christianmarcsch: another separate project for later would be skinning http://planet.sugarlabs.org/
02:41 mikedevine yeah i agree
02:41 skinning should be something we keep in mind as we go about design
02:41 christianmarcsch JT4sugar, mikedevine: the next step would be to gather all imagery and video material in the dropbox folder. not everything needs to be done, but let's aim to have at least 30% of all content there so i can get a sense of what the content will look and feel like to lock on the design
02:41 mikedevine to make it easier later
02:41 ok sounds good
02:41 JT4sugar christianmarcsch, OK-Can you make log of this and send me email?
02:42 christianmarcsch JT4sugar: sure
02:43 JT4sugar: as far as other next steps, i'll keep working on the design, and bernie and i will discuss the persistent navbar. i'll do as much as i can in the meantime as mike and JT are gathering content.
02:43 JT4sugar Thanks-Will let you go. If we can have idea what we still might need by Summit that would be good place to ask community
02:45 Thanks everyone!!!
02:46 christianmarcsch JT4sugar: thanks! talk to you soon
02:46 bernie: let's chat soon about the navbar. maybe start an email thread?
02:48 bernie christianmarcsch: sure, please cc me so i don't miss the thread
02:48 mikedevine has left #sugar-meeting
02:48 bernie christianmarcsch: if you use jabber (aka GTalk), you can also add me as a buddy. my ID is bernie@codewiz.org
02:48 christianmarcsch: btw: a big THANK YOU for the great work you've done so far.
02:49 christianmarcsch bernie: thanks! i'll look for you on GTalk so we can figure out the navbar situation!
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02:56 bernie #endmeeting
02:57 dogi: oops... who started the meeting?
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03:01 JT4sugar #endmeeting
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18:55 mchua about
18:57 walterbender bernie, alsroot, CanoeBerry, cjb: you guys here?
18:57 cjb yep
18:58 alsroot here
18:58 walterbender doesn't see Sebastian, although he said he was attending.
18:58 We have a quorum, so we will get started on the hour.
18:58 bernie walterbender: present
18:59 walterbender bernie: glad you are here so we can talk about the GPL issue
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19:00 walterbender #start-meeting
19:00 meeting Meeting started Thu Apr 21 19:00:15 2011 UTC. The chair is walterbender. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:00 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
19:00 walterbender welcome all.
19:00 we haven
19:00 't met in a while...
19:00 nothing too urgent, but some things we should sync up on
19:00 mchua Yup yup.
19:01 walterbender there is an agenda here: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/O[…]ght_Board/Minutes
19:01 the first topic is finances
19:01 #topic finances
19:02 I don't have much to say: we have little if any income or expenses
19:02 mchua #info "We haven't had a report in a while and there are some requests for funding: Sean wants a phone number for publicity and Sebastian had asked about the possibility of funding for Ceibal Jam. Also, there are a few past transactions that should be highlighted. (walter)"
19:02 from the wiki page
19:02 cjb walterbender: do we know how much money we have?
19:02 walterbender our current balance is just a bi tmore than $19K
19:02 mchua wonders if SL as a whole understands that we don't do the $ thing much.
19:02 walterbender Most of that money is earmarked.
19:03 We still have Gould Grant money in the bank.
19:03 cjb does it expire or anything?
19:03 walterbender That is earmarked for SoaS.
19:03 mchua just looked on the wiki - we don't seem to have any place where we're publicly keeping track of finance stuff, should we?
19:03 as in, how much we have and what it's earmarked for, basically what cjb just asked for and what walter is telling us now.
19:03 walterbender mchua: I had a finance person, Alex, who was going to put all of our fiancial transactions in the wiki... but he petered out :P
19:04 bernie :-(
19:04 mchua walterbender: if there's a data dump to wikitextify, send it to me and I'll do it over coffee tonight.
19:04 cjb maybe we should try to interpret the ledger file
19:04 we can't approve any spending if we don't know how much in non-earmarked funds we have
19:04 mchua can't promise to maintain, but setting it up would be a quick thing for me to do - I've done far too much accounting/finance for Fedora and Teaching Open Source already :)
19:04 cjb: +1
19:04 cjb but maybe doing this would take too long to do right now
19:04 walterbender cjb, mchua: we could write something that looked at the monthlies and exported a wiki table
19:05 that was what Alex was going to do...
19:05 bernie the treasurer role is probably no fun for volunteers.
19:05 walterbender bernie: true
19:05 mchua walterbender: hell, I'll do the first round manually, just get me the data :)
19:05 probably has it in her inbox somewhere but it'd be hard for me to find the latest
19:05 walterbender mchua: don't you get copies of the reports from the SFC?
19:05 bernie mchua: i think the data is attached to bkuhm's periodic emails
19:06 walterbender We have the Feb. data
19:06 mchua once we know what display we want, then we can automate it... but I agree with cjb that the questions at hand, "can we fund X?" can't be answered until we have a dollar number for what we have.
19:06 bernie, walterbender: I get them, but I don't file them for reference, so if someone could resend me the last one that'd be great.
19:06 cjb walterbender: I find it impossibly difficult to understand.
19:06 So it's a good thing I'm not an accountant :-)
19:06 walterbender In any case, as a summary, Carolyn and I are co-investigators for Gould.
19:07 cjb walterbender: is there a time period that Gould's expected to run for, or does it just keep going until the money's done?
19:07 walterbender I dipped in occasionally for things like some travel support for Peter, who is doing the bulk of the heavy lifting on the technical side for SoaS.
19:07 Carolyn is dipping in for misc. deployment expenses
19:07 and some interns.
19:07 bernie mchua: the last one i have is for January.
19:07 walterbender I need to do an exact tally, but I think it is about 50% spent.
19:08 has Feb. will forward after the meeting.
19:08 bernie mchua: sent it to you
19:08 walterbender We have some other funds: GSoC money, which is under the control of the GSoC mentors. We spend the money from 2009 on travel for mentors.
19:09 mchua Here's what I propose: walterbender forwards mchua the current ledger, mchua puts up a finance wiki page that explains our current $ situation (or questions that need to be answered to clear it up), we tell everyone waiting for $ decisions to come back to the next SLOBs meeting, and we schedule that meeting before we end today, with finances as the "gotta get this done" item on there.
19:09 cjb mchua: sounds great!
19:09 mchua #info funds to consider in drawing up the finance picture - gould grant, gsoc
19:09 cjb walterbender: hm, don't think we agreed that let GSOC mentors control GSOC funds.
19:09 walterbender The 2010 money is mostly untouched (except I spent ~300 to pay for the RIT students to travel to the webste meeting in NYC).
19:09 cjb (but I might be wrong)
19:09 mchua not trying to rush through this, but cognizant that we have limited time and a full agenda.
19:09 also has a hard stop in 50m, another meeting I have to go to.
19:10 walterbender cjb: We agreed to that is the past, but we can revisit it.
19:10 mchua and if we can do info finding and presentation outside meetings so we can have discussion during meetings, I think that's a good thing. :)
19:10 bernie walterbender: i just noticed that the conservancy@sugarlabs.org alias was no longer being forwarded to slobs... I fixed that
19:10 cjb walterbender: (I'm saying I don't think we agreed to it in the past.)
19:10 mchua thanks bernie!
19:10 tch <tch!~tch@190.23.96.66> has joined #sugar-meeting
19:10 cjb (but I'll take a look at previous minutes in the background; we can move on)
19:11 icarito <icarito!~icaro@190.157.140.197> has joined #sugar-meeting
19:11 walterbender #action Walter will dig up the thread re GSoC $
19:11 cjb thanks.  sorry for the hassle.
19:11 walterbender #action Walter will post a summary of our accounts in the wiki and notify SLOBs
19:12 icarito hi
19:12 walterbender just to wrap up: we still have the money allocated for servers that we never bought. Bernie may have something to say about that
19:12 icarito its one hour early (reminder said 20UTC but its 19:13 UTC)
19:12 mchua walterbender: i'm happy to start the wiki page if you'd like to #action me on that - I'll translate the SFC's ledger files into human-readability.
19:12 cjb walterbender: thread "Please send SoC details for Sugar Labs soon; thanks" has a post where I say that we decided against allocating money to mentors.
19:12 walterbender cjb: I'll take a look...
19:12 icarito (EST is GMT-6)
19:13 cjb walterbender: yeah, I agree that we allocated money for servers, but I don't know that we still *have* that much money
19:13 so it may not be meaningful that it was allocated
19:13 mchua icarito: oh! right, most of us are in the US, where we have daylight savings time... so we're on EDT rather than EST right now.
19:13 walterbender icarito: sorry. this daylight savings time business has me confused.
19:13 Isn't it UTC-5:13 right now?
19:14 icarito walterbender, its UTC-6:13
19:14 http://timeanddate.com/worldcl[…]/city.html?n=1440
19:14 walterbender OK... well, we are all here now.
19:15 icarito checks backlog
19:15 walterbender back on task: assuming we have funds to pay a few hundred dollars for a phone number, I am in favor of it.
19:15 mchua assuming. :)
19:15 as noted above, I'd like to see whether we do have funds before making that call.
19:15 so the course of action proposed was to try and get that resolved asap.
19:16 cjb yep, seems like a reasonable use of money.  hopefully it won't be many hundreds; out of curiosity, wouldn't google voice etc be free?
19:16 or maybe there's something we need that services like google voice don't do.  do we want to make outgoing calls, or just incoming?
19:16 walterbender cjb: as I understand it, googlevoice doesn't offer a decent international service...
19:16 just incoming
19:17 whatever the solution, it won't be much money
19:17 cjb hm, I'm sure the incoming phone numbers you get from googlevoice are globally routable
19:17 yeah, sounds good
19:17 mchua would like to see that budget proposal written up - features needed, estimated cost, the chosen option and why it was the best of all the ones evaluated
19:17 walterbender cjb: maybe you can help Sean work this out
19:17 mchua nothing formal, even just a sentence on each
19:17 and then that makes an easy motion to look at and +1 or -1.
19:17 cjb walterbender: could do -- or we can just ask Sean for a little more info, like the exact amount requested
19:17 and which service he plans to use
19:18 walterbender It seems that either way, since I am one of the GSoC mentors, we could agree today to let him proceed, within some cap.
19:19 but at this point, I don't think it is urgent, so we can wait for the more detailed finance report and the resolution of the GSoC question.
19:19 meanwhile, we have icarito's question on the table.
19:20 mchua walterbender, cjb: http://fpaste.org/gkp3/ are the q's that seem good for Sean to answer
19:20 cjb cool.  icarito: what's your proposal?
19:20 mchua (if that looks fine I'll toss it to iaep with sean on cc)
19:20 cjb mchua: perfect, thanks!
19:21 icarito cjb, basically I'd like to attend edujam
19:21 walterbender sent the questions to sean
19:21 cjb icarito: okay.  how much money do you need to do that?
19:22 icarito I think its important for sugarlabs to have as much representation as possible
19:22 bernie guys, i feel that the board should be bothered with approving small budget requests
19:22 icarito the ticket from bogota is 1100 US
19:22 bernie boards in any foundations meet every few months... they can't do this kind of micro-management
19:22 cjb bernie: disagree, assuming you meant to put a not in there.
19:22 bernie cjb: no, i really mean that the board is meant to oversight, not manage Sugar Labs
19:22 mchua walterbender: ...woops, I just sent them also, and to iaep for transparency
19:23 walterbender mchua: +1
19:23 mchua good for people who are thinking of requesting budget to know (1) how tight we are on funds and (2) what info we need to make a call
19:23 bernie we have an Executive Director (equivalent to a CEO) and we could appoint a treasurer (equivalent to a CFO)
19:23 no company calls the shareholders to approve phone lines and stuff like that.
19:23 cjb bernie: we can have a vote if you like.  I am uncomfortable relieving ourselves of financial responsibility without a treasurer (which we don't have) while we continue to not have much money.
19:23 walterbender bernie: I am with you re 'petty cash'
19:24 cjb bernie: dude, you're talking about companies where the reason they don't micromanage small requests is that *they have much more money than the small requests are for*.
19:24 we don't.
19:24 bernie cjb: we've already voted Walter as our ED. This means granting him some executive powers.
19:25 walterbender cjb: I think we should be making decisons such as, should we be funding travel to SL events, as opposed to making the individual decisions about who goes
19:25 bernie cjb: I worry that we'll paralyze Sugar Labs if we centralize all decision making within an organ that meets once every few weeks or months.
19:25 cjb bernie: I interpret the conservancy as wanting SLOBs to have joint financial oversight.
19:25 walterbender cjb: but making those decisions in the dark is an issue.
19:25 cjb walterbender: cool, I think I agree with that
19:25 mchua Honestly, I don't care who makes the financial decisions or how, as long as (1) we don't spend more money than we have, and (2) all the accounting and financial disbursement is done transparency, so that iaep at least is informed of each request and transaction.
19:25 er, "transparently." I can't spell today.
19:26 bernie cjb: i should re-read our original contract, but hopefully nothing precvents us from delegating such power to individuals we trust... like any board does.
19:26 walterbender I think we have been operating that way... you haven't seen anything because nothing has happened
19:26 mchua In the absence of an individual assigned that responsibility, it falls to SLOBs.
19:26 cjb walterbender: yep, agreed again
19:26 bernie mchua: i think we can't spend more money than we have because the SFC controls our bank account and wouldn't grant us any credit.
19:26 cjb bernie: nonsense.
19:27 we could tell icarito today to go buy a 1100 US ticket and that we'll pay him back
19:27 and then we could not have enough money to pay him back.
19:27 icarito the reason i feel it is important enough to ask the board (and leave my family) for a week is I think the local labs need to align
19:27 and we need some face to face
19:27 to define objectives and common strategies
19:28 bernie cjb: ah, you mean fail to refund people who lend us money? yeah, we shouldn't do that.
19:28 walterbender cjb: at the same time, there is risk and there is risk
19:29 cjb: I think we need to be willing to trust that we have responsible people on our oversight board
19:29 mchua Okay, folks - we have a lot of other things on the agenda for today, and it seems to me that we're debating hypotheticals until we find out and publish to the community exactly how much $ we have.
19:29 walterbender has not seen evidence to the contrary
19:30 mchua: $ 19,592.13  Assets
19:30 bernie mchua: ok that's a very good goal
19:30 mchua non-earmarked total?
19:30 walterbender mchua: I need to figure that out
19:30 mchua Right. :) So we need that number before making any other calls.
19:30 walterbender mchua: my estimate is about 50-50
19:31 mchua Otherwise, we may be spending money that's already spoken for.
19:31 walterbender so we cannot answer icarito today.
19:31 I need to sort this out ASAP so we don't keep him in limbo.
19:31 mchua Right - and icarito, I think it would also help if we had a cost estimate from you
19:32 cjb mchua: ah, I think we got one -- 1100 US
19:32 mchua Oh, ok! Sorry, missed that :)
19:32 cjb (maybe we should ask for a more detailed one?)
19:32 mchua I'd like the breakdown, yeah...
19:32 icarito cjb, mchua 1100 is just for the airplane ticket
19:32 walterbender I think that is for airfare.
19:32 icarito the rest would come out of my pocket
19:32 cjb I think we also need to decide on a strategy for paying for travel, too
19:32 walterbender cjb: exactly
19:33 cjb viz. walter's idea that we shouldn't be deciding who SL sends to conferences ourselves
19:33 mchua so we need a few things:
19:33 cjb but it should come from the community
19:33 walterbender cjb: regardless of who controls it, I thought the GSoC mentor money was for travel requests such as these
19:33 mchua 1) a public statement of our financial situation, how much money we have and how much money is unallocated (and can be used for new things)
19:33 2) a process for people to propose line items - what information do they need to give SLOBs (or whoever) so we can make a financial decision?
19:33 cjb walterbender: hm, you thought it was earmarked for them?  by whom?
19:34 walterbender: I agree that travel is a fine use of SL money in general, I'm just confused about what exactly you mean by that.
19:34 walterbender cjb: I will have to find the relevant logs... I'll do that out of band
19:34 mchua cjb: for the record, fedora's travel funding system (community-sourced) is documented at https://fedorahosted.org/fudco[…]ki/FundingRequest
19:34 cjb walterbender: k, thanks.  To be clear, my recollection is that we did not approve associating GSOC money with mentors due to conflict of interest, and that GSOC money we've received has not been earmarked in any way.
19:35 mchua everything from "what info you need to provide" to "how it gets paid for if you're approved"
19:35 cjb (Which means it's available for any spending we want, as I understand it.)
19:35 mchua: nice!
19:35 walterbender cjb: I am willing to continue this discussion based on that assertion
19:36 cjb I guess I'm a bit worried -- and I think this is our fault -- that we haven't had time to announce to people that we're seeking requests for travel sponsorship to eduJam
19:36 mchua cjb: https://fedorahosted.org/fudco[…]te&order=priority has a sample queue of funding requests
19:36 cjb mchua: wow, so organized.
19:36 mchua helped make this process, and would be happy to set up something similar for SL if there's a need, just let me know.
19:37 walterbender commonsensical as well
19:37 cjb hehe, I should have known you had something to do with it :-)
19:37 walterbender mchua: +1
19:37 mchua do we want this set up in time for ceibal? That's soon.
19:37 icarito mchua, +1
19:37 :-)
19:37 mchua All right, I'll set it up then - bernie, if you can hit me with a trac component called "fundingrequest" that forwards tickets to SLOBs, that'd be great
19:37 cjb so I guess my current intuition here is that it's very late to be making any travel decisions for eduJam, since we weren't able to solicit sponsorship proposals and we're rushing to find out how much money we could offer
19:37 walterbender mchua: we can proceed as if it were in place by asking icarito to respond to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/[…]ttendees#Criteria
19:38 icarito seems that's very soon and I should buy the ticket asap
19:38 mchua walterbender: that'll work. :) icarito - willing to be a guinea pig?
19:38 cjb (and even if we announce that we're seeking them now, by this point it's too late for people to decide to go to a conference in two weeks :/)
19:38 walterbender and maybe vote by email so that we can get quick turn-around
19:38 mchua that means that as soon as icarito has his funding request in, SLOBs can look at it (mailing list, if we have to - meeting times are hard to get)
19:38 walterbender: jinx!
19:39 cjb how do other folks feel?
19:39 mchua (one moment, my connection may flicker for a bit - walking downstairs)
19:40 walterbender I think (a) we can vote on the system once mel puts something in place; and (b) vote on the instance once it is in the system, but I cannot see a or b happening in this meeting
19:40 bernie mchua: shall we first vote for having fundrising requests run through slobs as opposed to the ED?
19:40 cjb bernie: for example, I presume you would've applied for SL travel sponsorship for eduJam if you'd known it was possible?
19:40 walterbender but I am generally pleased with mimicing the Fedora criteria which seem sensible
19:41 bernie cjb: i would have asked walter, not the board.
19:41 walterbender cjb: not just Bernie,... me too, but I think we did know that we could make such requests... just not through such a formal mechanism
19:41 cjb: this is not the first travel request
19:42 bernie cjb: i think it's a mistake to give executive powers to slow organ like a board. at most, the board could *review* the work done by the ED, CFO, team coordinators, etc.
19:42 icarito mchua, i'm unclear about where these questions need to be anwered, a wiki page, a trac ticket?
19:43 mchua icarito: since we don't have infra right now, I'd say just email iaep and cc slobs and I'll make sure it gets put into the tracker when we have a component up.
19:43 walterbender bernie: I think the plan is to have the board approve the process, not the individual decisions
19:43 mchua bernie: and I'll need a trac component to do this, plz ;)
19:43 but I can also nag about that stuff later.
19:43 bernie walterbender: nice
19:43 mchua: who should the trac forward to?
19:43 walterbender bernie: presumably the process will spell out a decision-making body
19:43 mchua +1 on process approval.
19:44 (vs individual decisions)
19:44 walterbender All. I have only 15 minutes left :(
19:44 icarito +1 as well on process aproval
19:44 mchua bernie: set email to iaep for now, or walter if you need one person.
19:44 walterbender But I think we agreed to have Mel strawman a process for SLOBs approval and in parallel, icarito will enter the fray
19:45 bernie mchua: i think it would be better for people to email iaep or walter rather than going through a bug tracker.
19:45 walterbender I'd like to touch on some other topics quickly, if we can.
19:46 icarito #action i'll answer the fedora criteria to IAEP/SLOBs (icarito)
19:46 walterbender Can we let Mel take charge of designing the travel process/policy for a SLOBs vote?
19:46 bernie mchua: for example, when I asked for some money to OLPC, all I had to do was write to the Robert Fadel, and I got an email back with just one word: "Approved."
19:46 mchua: why does it have to be more complicated than this in Sugar Labs?
19:46 cjb walterbender: yes, sure.  let's move on.
19:46 bernie walterbender: oik
19:47 walterbender #topic Ceibal Jam, Sugar Camp
19:47 last time we met, it was not finalized. Now it is...
19:47 I think everyone has the basic info, but in case there are quesitons?
19:48 cjb no questions, looking forward to seeing everyone
19:48 walterbender The Ceibal Jam team has done a nice job organizing and I think we will have a good crowd...
19:48 #topic SugarLabs cycling team
19:48 icarito who will be there?
19:48 i mean from the board?
19:49 walterbender Bernie, CJB, Walter, Adam, you?, Alsroot?
19:49 cjb icarito: bernie/walter/alsroot/me/Adam
19:49 (at least I saw alsroot's name somewhere so I think he's going, I haven't asked him directly)
19:49 icarito looking forward to meeting most of you in person
19:49 alsroot is going
19:49 bernie yep
19:50 icarito: me too
19:50 walterbender we finally meet alsroot :P
19:50 yeah
19:50 cjb let's move on
19:50 icarito how are you all financing your travel?
19:50 walterbender ok.
19:50 cjb hehe, not that I'm not excited about meeting alsroot
19:50 bernie we have 6 board members in the same place together, that's a record
19:50 cjb but we're running rapidly out of time
19:50 walterbender quickly: http://vueltaciclista.sugarlabs.org/
19:51 let's cover this in more detail at the next meeting.
19:51 #topic Ubuntu
19:51 I met with one of their technical director who offered help making Sugar a flavor
19:52 cjb neat, do you remember who?
19:53 walterbender Allison Randal
19:53 bernie great
19:54 subuntu? :-)
19:54 cjb neat.  she's their Technical Architect.
19:54 walterbender We need to get someone to Budapest for the Ubuntu Camp that is at the same time as our Sugar Camp
19:54 longer discussion than I have time for today.
19:54 We should meet again next week.
19:55 cjb I wonder what it's good for slobs to do here -- maybe announce on iaep that we'd encourage people to form an "Ubuntu Team" (doesn't have to be a formal team) and then e-mail her to try to set up something like an IRC meeting about getting help with where to go?
19:55 walterbender cjb: +1
19:55 cjb oh, ok, sending someone to UDS sounds good too
19:55 walterbender I just want to give SLOBs a heads up
19:55 cjb yep, sounds good
19:55 walterbender OK. Next topic
19:55 #topic GPLv3
19:56 cjb actually, next was "new website"
19:56 walterbender oops
19:56 right.
19:56 cjb but we could stay on GPL and then come back?
19:56 walterbender #topic website
19:56 cjb whichever
19:56 walterbender Bernie:
19:56 bernie cjb: there's already an ubuntu sugar team, but it's kinda dead
19:57 This topic was a request to review the status of advancement of the website work.
19:58 There was a meeting yesterday, so i'm probably more up to date than the other slobs
19:58 Christian Mark Schmit created some comps: http://christianmarcschmidt.co[…]ojects/sugarlabs/
19:59 cjb that's cool
19:59 it looks a bit like the new olpc site
19:59 bernie cjb: yes, and I like it
19:59 cjb yep, me too
19:59 thanks for the update!  shall we go to GPLv3 quickly, and then finish?
20:00 walterbender yeap
20:00 yep
20:00 bernie cjb: sure
20:00 walterbender #topic GPLv3
20:00 I hope everyone had a chance to read the link I forwarded from Karen?
20:01 bernie yup
20:01 #link http://www.gnu.org/licenses/qu[…]-guide-gplv3.html
20:01 walterbender and there was the thread with Yama, which I think is mostly a misunderstanding, but he promised to get back to me with some 'evidence'
20:01 cjb I'm familiar with it and a move sounds good, but we'd have to contact >100 Sugar committers to ask for their permission, right?
20:02 (we don't own the copyright on their work, and can't change the license on it unilaterally.)
20:02 icarito actually as I read it when you license "GPLv2 or later"
20:02 alsroot bernie: can v2+ -> v3+ shit be a technical?
20:03 bernie cjb: nope, we don't have to
20:03 walterbender To me the relevant issues with v3 for us are not the usually hot topics: DRM, Patents... but rather compatibility and libraries
20:03 bernie cjb: we're not relicensing code retroactively
20:03 cjb bernie: ooh
20:03 icarito exactly bernie +1
20:03 bernie cjb: all we need to do is take advantage of the "GPLv2 or any later version" clause with which we received the code from past contributors
20:03 walterbender all:  alas, I need to run -- another Sloan study on Sugar Labs...
20:04 bernie: If I end meeting, can you start meeting again?
20:04 bernie In case it's needed I hearby relicense all my contributions to Sugar as "GPLv3 or any later version".
20:04 walterbender: sure
20:04 walterbender thanks all for coming...
20:04 bernie walterbender: thank you
20:04 walterbender I'll try to get to my homework tonight
20:04 #endmeeting
20:04 meeting Meeting ended Thu Apr 21 20:04:49 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
20:04 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-21T19:00:15.html
20:04 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]11-04-21T19:00:15
20:04 bernie #startmeeting GPLv3
20:05 #startmeeting
20:05 meeting Meeting started Thu Apr 21 20:05:05 2011 UTC. The chair is bernie. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:05 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
20:05 bernie #topic GPLv3
20:06 alsroot: what do you mean, that we should delegate the GPLv3 decision to the development team?
20:06 dogi has quit IRC
20:06 icarito bernie, what exactly should the board decide? should we recommend a license in the wiki? should we relabel all modules that say GPLv2 and later to say GPLv3 and later? Should we do an announcement?
20:07 cjb I'd agree that the decision should definitely come from a larger community than the seven of us (who are all developers and not deployers, etc etc)
20:07 but I think most people will probably be positive about it
20:07 icarito cjb, actually i feel its an upgrade, people developed v3 of our license to further protect our freedoms and we should adopt it
20:07 bernie icarito: yes, we say in several places that sugar is GPLv2+... if we approve today, we could start updating documentation here and there, and ask (not impose) the various maintainers to migrate their modules to GPLv3.
20:07 cjb icarito: right, but my point is that it shouldn't matter what we feel, because we don't represent everyone.
20:08 alsroot bernie: I mean does "v2+" mean that such modules might be just technically "retitled" to v3+
20:08 mchua Ugh, I'm sorry, folks - my internet connection died so i drove out to the office to recover connectivity.
20:08 has another meeting starting any moment now, though...
20:08 reads up
20:08 bernie alsroot: yes, there's no legal requirement
20:09 cjb maybe we send a mail to IAEP, subject "ANNOUNCE: Moving to GPLv3+" where we say that we're going to start using the v2+ clause to switch to v3+ and explain that we don't think it has much of an impact of anyone but that some developers think it more accurately represents their intentions?
20:09 and then we give it two weeks for feedback or something
20:09 icarito bernie you have my emphatic +1 on recommending and documenting sugar as gplv3+
20:09 bernie icarito: i think the board could give a clear message that will help the transition happen smoothly... what would happen if 2 maintainers switched and 1 didn't? modules would become incompatible ;-)
20:09 walterbender has quit IRC
20:09 cjb ouch :)
20:09 bernie no, wait, that's not true... modules would remain compatible in any case.
20:09 cjb ah, good
20:10 mchua bernie: to answer your question quickly, it *doesn't* and shouldn't need to be more complicated than that (finances)
20:10 bernie it's just that the entire thing would have to be distributed under the GPLv3+
20:10 icarito +1
20:10 i already license what I code with GPLv3
20:10 cjb bernie: so we'd need to let all the distros know, I guess
20:10 bernie mchua: k. i appreciate you trying to figure out our financial quagmire :)
20:10 mchua bernie: we just need to know (1) who people ask and (2) what info they need to provide when they ask and (3) where the final "approved" recording takes place, so there's somewhere public that's a record of how much $ we have and spent on what.
20:11 bernie: it's not a quagmire, it just needs to be written down. I estimate it'll take me <45m tonight after dinner. ;)
20:11 bernie cjb: yes, indeed.
20:11 mchua has to head out to a mtg now
20:11 waves
20:11 mchua is now known as mchua_afk
20:11 icarito bye mchua_afk
20:11 alsroot is for: since v2+ means also v3+, we can make a statement that core mouldes are moving to v3+ in a week or so (to collect feedback) and ask other activities maints do thesame
20:12 walterbender <walterbender!~webchat@jita.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting
20:12 cjb the activities aren't considered linked anyway
20:12 'cause that part of Sugar is LGPL
20:12 what are we going to do about that?
20:12 bernie mchua_afk: i agree with you about the records being *public*. so you're right... iaep or trac would be better than private emails. The only point which needs clearing is *who* is going to approve requests.
20:13 cjb: sugar-toolkit is LGPLv2+
20:13 cjb bernie: 'k.  so that would move to LGPLv3+ at the same time, presumably?
20:13 bernie alsroot: is sweets also LGPLv2+?
20:13 alsroot bernie: nope, GPL3+. polyol is LGPL3+
20:13 bernie cjb: yes, I forgot about that. sugar-toolkit should become LGPLv3+
20:14 cjb bernie: cool
20:14 icarito i assume we're using LGPL to facillitate non-free activities?
20:14 cjb yes
20:14 or just incompatibly free ones
20:15 icarito if sugar wanted to make a clear statement of the role of free software in education we would use strong copyleft
20:15 bernie alsroot: side note, when one creates a project on gitorious, Academic Public License gets pre-selected... which is a dangerous default. we should probably make it GPLv3+ if we approve the motion.
20:16 alsroot bernie: yeah, will change it
20:16 cjb icarito: feel free to propose moving sugar-toolkit from LGPL to GPL on iaep, though that *would* require contacting everyone who's written it.
20:16 icarito since i'm not the copyright owner I cant make the call but i would like it
20:16 dogi <dogi!~nemo@c-65-96-166-32.hsd1.ma.comcast.net> has joined #sugar-meeting
20:16 bernie icarito: we used LGPLv2+ in sugar-toolkit to allow activities which are free software, but not compatible with the GPL
20:16 cjb yeah, that's my recollection too
20:17 bernie icarito: besides, Scratch which is not free software works with sugar anyway (there's no requirement to use sugar-toolkit)
20:17 icarito sideeffect being we have non-free activities
20:17 cjb bernie: aw, I thought they fixed that
20:17 icarito ok
20:17 bernie icarito: I would tend to agree with you that having everything under the GPLv3 would be ideal, but I'm afraid it would be too controversial at this time.
20:18 cjb bernie: http://activities.sugarlabs.or[…]ons/license/30244 is the license attached to the latest version
20:18 and it looks GPL-compatible to me
20:18 icarito thanks for the background i know we're a bit OT
20:19 bernie cjb: i asked recently, they won't fix it because they have some crazy market strategy of theirs that in their mind requires that non-free clause.
20:19 cjb bernie: I don't know what non-free clause you're talking about.
20:19 because it is not mentioned on that page
20:20 bernie cjb: they don't allow modification!
20:20 icarito bernie is the clause the MIT advertising clause? If the software is published or distributed, the following statement shall be displayed in a visible place on a website or on distribution media such as CDs:
20:20  Scratch is developed by the Lifelong Kindergarten group at the MIT Media Lab.
20:20  See http://scratch.mit.edu
20:20 cjb bernie: read the link!
20:20 bernie: it's lame to have someone send you a link and then you keep arguing as if you didn't bother to look at it.
20:20 bernie cjb: because otherwise people could create competing versions of the language, or make scratch upload to a competing community.
20:20 cjb: this is what I was told at the Media Lab.
20:20 icarito bernie, ouch!
20:21 bernie cjb: you seem to have missed my comment: *** they don't allow modification ***
20:21 cjb: only redistribution
20:21 icarito freedom 1 and freedom 3
20:21 cjb, i read the link
20:21 cjb bernie: ohh
20:22 bernie: I didn't see that license as prohibiting modification :/
20:22 sorry
20:22 in fact, I don't see how it does?
20:22 icarito cjb, it does not allow it
20:22 bernie cjb: everything is prohibited unless the copyright holder grants permission... so modification is prohibited.
20:23 icarito right to use, copy, publish, or distribute copies of the Software,
20:23 cjb man, what a confusing license
20:24 bernie cjb: they try to hide the fact that it's non-free.
20:24 cjb that sucks
20:24 icarito bernie, that even sounds dishonest
20:25 bernie icarito: I was told that the person in charge of Scratch at the Media Lab is not really an expert of free software.
20:25 cjb bernie: we would have the right to distribute the pristine source + patch files, though
20:25 and the user could combine them.  but that's awkward.
20:26 icarito i'd suggest we should stop distributing scratch in this case
20:26 cjb you could make rpm apply the patch as a %post :)
20:26 ok
20:26 bernie cjb: the so-called homebrew copyright infringement :-)
20:26 cjb anyway.  I think the switch sounds fine but that we should tell people we're going to do it before we do it.
20:26 bernie bah, shall we flash out a motion for the GPLv3?
20:26 cjb and give them a chance to object and comment, so that it doesn't sound like we're arbitrarily making decisions for the whole community
20:27 something like.. send e-mail to IAEP today announcing that we want to do it, wait two weeks, then vote
20:27 bernie cjb: yes, i agree with you. who shall we announce it to? fedora, ubuntu and opensuse?
20:27 cjb we could have the vote in UY maybe :-)
20:27 oh, no, they can hear about it after
20:27 I mean to the _Sugar_ community
20:27 bernie cjb: we'll target Sugar 0.94?
20:27 cjb which we are not the only members of
20:27 sure
20:28 bernie cjb: didn't we already start a thread on iaep?
20:28 icarito i thought we were supposed to represent htem
20:28 cjb icarito: sure, but representing them involves asking what they want.
20:28 rather than telling them
20:28 bernie cjb: it's already become a flame :-)
20:28 icarito it means they trust us as well
20:29 cjb there is no thread on iaep that announces or proposes a move to GPLv3, as far as I've seen
20:29 just a bullet point in the slobs minutes
20:29 bernie cjb: walter's post to iaep is meant to be an RFC on the GPLv3 proposal, right?
20:30 cjb bernie: It clearly doesn't do that explicitly.
20:30 bernie cjb: never mind that the thread was rapidly derailed...
20:30 cjb yes, unfortuante
20:31 I'm suggesting a mail with a subject line of "ANNOUNCE: Sugar moving to GPLv3+" that explains how we're doing it and a proposal for when it'll happen
20:31 to iaep and sugar-devel
20:31 icarito friends I have to go but I'm uneasy about us distributing scratch
20:31 bernie cjb: that should come after we approve, no?
20:31 icarito i might bring this up over email
20:31 bernie you have my +1 on GPLv3
20:31 cjb bernie: no, there'd be a week or two for comments
20:31 bernie icarito: ok bye
20:31 cjb icarito: oh.  you're right, we're not supposed to distribute non-free on ASLO.
20:32 bernie cjb: so the subject should be more like: "RFC: Moving Sugar to GPLv3+"
20:32 cjb yeah
20:32 I used ANNOUNCE because I'm worried people will skim over it
20:32 but RFC is fine too
20:32 bernie cjb: i think we explicitly closed one eye for Scratch because it's already so popular among children using the XO.
20:33 cjb bernie: well, we clearly didn't explicitly do so, since there is a motion banning non-free activities on ASLO, and there's no motion letting Scratch in regardless
20:33 maybe we did it implicitly
20:33 bernie cjb: would you like to open the dances? or shall I?
20:33 cjb bernie: please do :-)
20:33 bernie cjb: (I like your writing style better than mine)
20:33 cjb: ok, then i will.
20:33 cjb thanks
20:35 bernie ok, shall we endmeeting?
20:36 3
20:36 cjb sounds good, thanks
20:36 bernie 2
20:36 1
20:36 bye
20:36 #endmeeting
20:36 meeting Meeting ended Thu Apr 21 20:36:53 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
20:36 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-21T20:05:05.html
20:36 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]11-04-21T20:05:05
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