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#sugar-meeting, 2011-04-16

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13:46 dfarning alsroot, bernie, icarito, m_anish, silbe good morning
13:47 meeting in about 15 minutes
13:47 meeting dfarning: Error: "in" is not a valid command.
13:47 alsroot dfarning: g'day
13:48 dfarning alsroot good day
13:48 how is moscow?
13:48 bernie dfarning: hello
13:48 silbe hello everyone!
13:49 dfarning hey bernie and silbe I havn't seen you for a while.
13:50 m_anish hey, its still a few mins ;)
13:50 bernie yawns
13:50 dfarning I am trying to listen to paraguayian talk radio :) I have no Idea what they are talking about :( by the time I figure something out they have allready moved on to a new topic.
13:51 bernie it's a lot easier to be make it for the meeting since when it's at 10am
13:52 dfarning: see if you can find an audiobook on learning spanish
13:52 silbe dfarning: yeah, besides preparing for moving I've had trouble with my server (OpenRD-Base). Random processes including udevd die from time to time with SIGBUS / alignment traps. Looks like a hardware issue. :-/
13:52 bernie silbe: indeed
13:53 dfarning silbe yikes
13:55 silbe I guess it didn't like the temperature - the boards ships without a heat sink for the SoC (CPU). I was suspicious from the start and wanted to add temperature sensors before I start running CPU intensive stuff like a buildbot, but it seems the usual load (with a lot of encryption that isn't particularly optimised in the mainline kernel) was enough...
13:56 let's hope it doesn't silently corrupt data and / or die soon. I don't have a replacement ready, especially since I can't just pop the HD into a regular PC...
13:59 icarito_web <icarito_web!~webchat@jita.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting
14:01 dfarning good morning icarito_web
14:01 icarito_web good morning :-)
14:01 dfarning bernie, will you chair the meeting this morning?
14:02 bernie dfarning: ok
14:03 i guess it's time
14:03 dfarning, m_anish, alsroot. icarito_web, silbe: ready?
14:03 m_anish bernie, yep
14:03 dfarning si.
14:04 alsroot is listening
14:04 silbe yup
14:04 icarito_web yep
14:04 bernie #startmeeting
14:04 meeting Meeting started Sat Apr 16 14:04:09 2011 UTC. The chair is bernie. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:04 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
14:04 bernie #topic Updates on DX2 testing in schools (m_anish)
14:05 m_anish bernie, Not many updates re: testing this week :/
14:05 here goes...
14:06 I had a chat with pacita re: testing dx-2 on xo-1.5's
14:06 bernie m_anish: for the new schools?
14:06 m_anish they have ~300 XO 1.5 HS's now and the rest ~5k xo1.5 will be here in a month (or three weeks)
14:07 bernie, we hadn't tested very thoroughly on the xo1.5, but a few teacher's xo1.5's had an intermetidate version of dx2... we'll be flashing those before mass flashing
14:07 bernie m_anish: we had given quanta an image to install months ago... but of course it was DX1... so all the laptops will have to be flashed before giving them out :-/
14:08 m_anish while we're not seeing any major issues in xo1-dx2, we need a phase of testing on xo1.5
14:08 bernie, yep, we're gonna be nandblasting them
14:08 bernie m_anish: shouldn't the update system have brought those old DX2 images up to date with the latest version of DX2?
14:09 m_anish bernie, it still has the unrevised activity list IIRC
14:09 bernie m_anish: can the xo 1.5 do nandblasting? i thought it didn't work in the open firmware.
14:09 m_anish bernie, newer firmware versions allow nandblasting
14:09 we've already tested that :)
14:10 bernie m_anish: i wonder what firmware version will come with that batch... they may have been produced months ago
14:10 m_anish: regarding the old activity list, shouldn't the microformat updater also add missing activities now?
14:11 m_anish bernie, hmm, I guess we'll have to update firmwares then? anyway, its more of a headache for roberto and the CATS ppl
14:11 bernie m_anish: if we have to plug a usb stick in each laptop to upgrade the firmware, it'
14:11 m_anish: it's probably faster to do regular flashing
14:12 m_anish bernie, yep (re: activities), i don't know how often is the microformat updater actually used
14:12 bernie m_anish: nandblasting has several disadvantages too... it's damn slow and requires plenty of power strips and a lot of organization to rotate the laptops
14:12 m_anish bernie, from what I sense, they don't really use the activity updater a lot.
14:13 bernie m_anish: doesn't the updater check automatically every week or so? or was it a feature of the old version?
14:13 m_anish bernie, nope, the activity updater is to be run manually like the old activity updater
14:13 bernie, the yum updater is the automatic one
14:14 bernie m_anish: the old updater (the one by cscott) would pop up a notification... i have seen it a few times.
14:14 m_anish: it's probably a feature we want to have
14:15 m_anish bernie, okay
14:15 bernie next topic?
14:15 i'm afraid it
14:15 m_anish bernie, yep
14:15 bernie it's still on you :-)
14:15 m_anish bernie, wait...
14:15 :)
14:16 bernie yes?
14:16 m_anish nope, i'm just continuing...
14:16 they wanted me to translate the 1 page flyers-docs in spanish...
14:17 the next time i go to caacupe, i'll talk with kenny, he seems interested to assist with testing, getting feedback from schools
14:17 bernie, silbe, didn't do a lot of dx-3 work... but discussed a couple of features with tch which could be interesting (will write an email)
14:18 bernie m_anish: those fliers are nice... did we publish them on the dextrose pages? maybe we could have a Documentation page
14:18 m_anish bernie, they're linked on the dx/wiki page
14:19 #action create a documentation page on the wiki
14:20 bernie, i'm done
14:22 bernie ok
14:22 #topic Bug squashing (m_anish, tch, silbe)
14:22 so, i noticed a lot of activity on trac... what's the situation like?
14:23 m_anish #link http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-06T18:52:46.html
14:24 bernie m_anish: your bug triaging session was simply fantastic. we should do it every week
14:24 m_anish bernie, we've identified the things me+tch would be working on re: dx-2 enhancements... not much work re: dx-3 bug hunting from my side yet
14:25 bernie silbe: are you collecting bugs for dx3? are you tagging them with the dextrose and/or dx3 tags?
14:25 m_anish bernie, i was thinking, someone (probably me) could just do a run through trac, sift the reports, and then we can have similar sessions on the ones i've filtered and save everyone else some work??
14:26 silbe bernie: we're not using Trac for DX3 bugs yet. We can start doing so after the next image (Sugar 0.92.1 based, with the missing activities like Browse included) is finished.
14:27 bernie m_anish: yes, that would be great. you could also assign bugs to whoever you think can fix it faster (among silbe, tch, alsroot and yourself)
14:27 m_anish: (and dirakx and icarito, for activities)
14:28 silbe: do we have plans to switch to Surf for DX3? that would be a good move, if it's stable.
14:28 (sorry, this is out of topic now, let's postpone)
14:29 m_anish: do you think we're fixing bugs faster than we're finding new ones now?
14:29 silbe bernie: If possible, we should definitely do that. AFAICT lucian would have to finish some work on Surf first, though.
14:29 bernie dfarning: is lucian working on Surf for AC?
14:30 silbe bernie: once the development work is finished, we'll probably need to pull in some bleeding edge stuff like gobject introspection and the very latest webkit. Let's hope that doesn't break other parts.
14:30 dfarning bernie he has very little time now -- will work full time starting in the middle of june.
14:31 bernie he will be moving to asuncion
14:31 bernie dfarning: wow cool
14:31 silbe sounds like we'll be shipping Browse in the DX3 release, but Surf in DX4 (December).
14:31 bernie dfarning: asuncion is becoming the center of the world
14:32 ok, next topic?
14:32 dfarning bernie exactly. we are creating a critical mass of hackers :)
14:32 bernie dfarning: critical mass? it's becoming super-critical! :-)
14:32 m_anish #action m_anish run through trac and tag bugs to triage
14:32 (oops :))
14:33 silbe bernie: as long as it doesn't become a critical mess... :D
14:33 m_anish silbe, lol
14:33 bernie silbe: hahah
14:33 silbe, next topic would be DX3, but we can postpone
14:33 #topic Backporting patches from Sugar 0.92 / DX3
14:34 dfarning Yes, educators have advised that we keep the hackers behind proper shielding.
14:34 bernie dfarning: haha, yes. we need a fence between hackers and educators
14:34 a containment building
14:35 silbe: so, are you going to forward important Sugar 0.92 patches to m_anish for inclusion in DX2?
14:35 i'm seeing a lot of good stuff pass by in my gitorious feed.
14:37 silbe bernie: I suppose m_anish knows the DX2 patch list much better than I do and thus would do a better job at filtering which 0.92 patches should be backported. I can help with the backporting if there's a need for that.
14:38 DX2 is based on 0.88, right?
14:38 m_anish silbe, yep
14:39 bernie m_anish: are you tracking upstream development in gitorious and/or sugar-devel?
14:39 m_anish bernie, i'm afraid not :/
14:39 silbe ok, then you don't need most of the recent patches (Telepathy related). We could do a run through the other patches after the meeting.
14:40 m_anish bernie, i'll can do that, it'll require some effort on my part :)
14:40 silbe m_anish: do you have any commit id or date that you are sure DX2 is "synced up to"? I.e. any starting point for looking at new patches?
14:41 bernie m_anish: i simply subscribed to the various repositories in gitorious, so i receive emails for commits
14:41 m_anish: now you'd have to have a look at the logs and hunt for interesting bugfixes
14:41 m_anish bernie, yah, I see a lot of patches fly by on the m-l but I don't look at them very closely to be frank
14:41 bernie m_anish: hint: use "git log -p --stat" for an easy way to review all recent patches
14:41 m_anish (re: upstream development)
14:42 silbe, dx-2 = 0.88.1 + lots of our patches + (some of the commits that alsroot backported) IIRC
14:44 bernie m_anish: i was wondering, is the opposite also happening? that is, are you posting new DX2 patches to sugar-devel or at least hand them off to silbe?
14:44 alsroot m_anish: look to my backport email to dextrose@, so you need to review patches starting from that date
14:44 bernie is afraid that we might loose some work with the parallel branches
14:45 m_anish bernie, silbe nope, that isn't happening yet, I can coordinate with silbe to have all relevant dx-2 patches upstreamed
14:45 alsroot, okay
14:45 bernie alsroot: what's the subject? i can't find it
14:45 silbe m_anish: do we need to scan the full delta of 0.88 .. 0.92 for backport candidates or are all commits up to a certain point already backported if they were "worthy"?
14:46 alsroot bernie: "Backport bugfixes"
14:46 silbe bernie: I haven't catched up on DX-2 development yet. Everything starting from the notifications improvements hasn't been ported yet.
14:46 bernie silbe: no, i think we need to scan only a few months back, because until recently i was doing this work and forwarding important patches to the mailing list.
14:47 m_anish silbe, hmm... some of them are... but we could certainly do a more thorough run.
14:47 bernie alsroot: ah, yes
14:47 m_anish silbe, i guess that is more imp right now than digging through trac and finding new stuff to work on... I could divert my energies there :)
14:48 bernie alsroot: then we need to scan for new upstream parches from the day of your post to present.
14:48 silbe bernie: BTW, do you want to ship sugar-datastore 0.92 in DX2 or continue to backport patches? Almost all sugar-datastore patches were bug fixes.
14:48 bernie silbe: ah... then it makes sense to just rebase.
14:49 silbe m_anish: ^ that might solve your 0 file size bug
14:51 m_anish silbe, nice :), are there more major headaches in the datastore that we fixed going from 0.88-0.92?
14:51 bernie silbe: is there anything that might be slightly dangerous? for example, i was under the impression that the metadata format changed slightly when aa's patches went upstream
14:52 silbe m_anish: yup. I recently fixed a long standing bug that would destroy the data file.
14:52 bernie silbe: nice
14:53 silbe bernie: hmm, got point. IIRC I didn't review those patches in detail, so I can't be sure if migration works properly. We should compare the code and do a test run first.
14:53 s/got/good/
14:53 m_anish silbe, ok
14:55 silbe m_anish: we can test whether the 0 size bug happens in DX3, too. If it still does we at least know there are two different bugs.
14:55 bernie silbe: perhaps anish could provide a few test datastores taken from teachers or kids
14:55 ok, next topic?
14:55 m_anish bernie, can do if needed :)
14:55 silbe bernie: that would be useful. I do have a few data store copies, but none of them were created by DX-2 AFAIK.
14:56 m_anish silbe, okay!
14:56 silbe m_anish: thx!
14:56 bernie #topic Boxes ( icarito_web )
14:56 m_anish #action m_anish gather a few datastores from teachers/kids
14:56 icarito_web hi
14:56 just briefly http://somosazucar.status.net/attachment/156
14:57 the code lives in http://git.sugarlabs.org/hello[…]rld/hello-icarito
14:57 i'll try to be at tomorrow's design meeting as I havent got much feedback
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14:58 icarito_web it'd be nice to have dextrose activity pack's activities have an about box
14:59 ideally the HIG would suggest such a box
14:59 bernie icarito_web: can you post a screenshot?
15:00 icarito_web currently it grabs the files it finds in the bundle dir (README, HACKING, TODO, NEWS, COPYING, MANTAINERS, AUTHORS)
15:00 silbe icarito_web: we should make sure we agree on a common way to store that metadata even if we can't agree on a UI to present it. UI is easy enough to add, but we can only show what we have, i.e. what we can read from somewhere in a format we know.
15:01 icarito_web i thoutgh I just did http://somosazucar.status.net/attachment/156
15:01 bernie icarito_web: to save space on the toolbars, i'd like the About box to be accessible from a popup menu from the Stop button.
15:01 icarito_web: the about info might even be directly in the menu, rather than open a separate window
15:01 icarito_web silbe: agreed, cjl already pointed out l10n might be an issue
15:02 bernie icarito_web: wow, somosazucar looks cool!
15:02 icarito_web bernie that makes sense
15:02 bernie: originally i thuoght about make it the action for the default activity icon
15:02 bernie icarito_web: if you want, now we have a statusnet instance also on sugarlabs: http://status.sugarlabs.org/
15:03 icarito_web as that icon doesnt have a default action but i was not convinced
15:03 m_anish is now known as m_anish_afk
15:03 m_anish_afk is now known as m_anish
15:03 icarito_web bernie: yes i'm having lots of problems with spam on our instance and its hosted by status net
15:03 bernie: perhaps we can merge our efforts, and nubaes
15:03 bernie icarito_web: i like the design of the about dialog...
15:04 silbe adding it to the Activity palette makes sense - we're already tight on space in the primary toolbar for many activities...
15:04 icarito_web that is another topic but /me thinks status.net is a very powerful tool
15:04 silbe but that's something to discuss tomorrow
15:04 bernie icarito_web: i think you mean on !sugarlabsstatus? that's on identi.ca, not on our instance
15:04 icarito_web bernie thanks! I obsessed about it a lot
15:04 bernie icarito_web: our instance has been up only for a week, but it's not in production yet
15:05 icarito_web: nubae also said we should merge our efforts
15:05 icarito_web silbe: the idea is to put it in the activity palet, only Hello World doesnt have one
15:05 bernie icarito_web: speaking of duplicated efforts, now we also have another instance of wordpress: http://vueltaciclista.sugarlabs.org/
15:05 icarito_web i think activity pallet is a better place than stop button
15:05 silbe icarito_web: ah, ok.
15:05 bernie icarito_web: makes sense...
15:06 icarito_web bernie: we don't put a lot of maintenance to the somosazucar wp instance so having them separate might make sense
15:06 bernie icarito_web: you should discuss these ideas on sugar-devel with the design team... beware: garycmartin is opposed to about dialogs! :-)
15:07 icarito_web: i'd like to experiment with wordpress-mp to see if we could have one instance with multiple sites... they're already talking about setting up a third one
15:07 icarito_web bernie: I did send it to sugar-devel on tuesday
15:07 bernie icarito_web: ah! i'm behind on ml reading :)
15:07 ok, next and last topic?
15:08 icarito_web bernie: please feel free to use our instance
15:08 i think we need an update
15:08 bernie icarito_web: i could work on it... i now have some experience with wordpress
15:09 #topic DX3 status update (silbe)
15:09 icarito_web quozl, dfarning, cjl and dirakx replied but nothing from design team so i'll try to make it for tomorrow's design meeting
15:10 bernie the intereesting plugin we're using is called lifestream this is how we stream from the statusnet instance
15:10 bernie silbe: can you tell us briefly about the current status of DX3?
15:10 icarito_web and rss feeds
15:10 bernie icarito_web: are you talking about wordpress or statusnet?
15:11 icarito_web #link http://somosazucar.org/
15:11 silbe fetch the new 0.92.1 based Sugar packages using yum while they're still hot! They have quite a lot of bug fixes.
15:11 icarito_web i mean http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]April/030849.html
15:11 bernie we've integrated them
15:12 the plugin is for wordperss
15:12 wordpress
15:12 but its rudimentary it grabs statusnet's rss
15:12 silbe I'll spin another build (including some missing activities) later today. We'll first need to check whether some of the activities that were left out are actually Sugar 0.90+ compatible.
15:12 bernie icarito_web: ping me later today or tomorrow and we'll do the work together
15:12 silbe (they're marked as 0.82 - 0.88 only on a.sl.o)
15:12 icarito_web thanks bernie, looking forward to it
15:13 silbe one of the bugs I reported upstream (Fedora) was recently fixed, so we can remove another workaround.
15:14 I guess that's about it - we should do some DX3 testing once the new build is out.
15:14 bernie silbe: how's collaboration?
15:16 silbe bernie: with Simons latest bug fixes it might start to be working now. Testing should tell us more.
15:16 It definitely doesn't work inside chroots yet, but that doesn't affect DX3 obviously.
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15:21 silbe new build started, cross your fingers
15:21 m_anish silbe, :)
15:21 silbe anything else we should discuss?
15:25 satellit_ bernie: I have a testing XO-1.5 what should I test here?   (439dg now)
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15:31 silbe bernie: end of meeting?
15:31 m_anish satellit_, FWIW, this is a newer build :) http://people.sugarlabs.org/an[…]ognome/os508dx.zd
15:32 satellit_ thanks...will do dl
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15:36 dfarning is now known as dfarning_afk
15:36 m_anish bernie, ping, EOM? :P
15:38 bernie m_anish: ugh sorry
15:38 m_anish: i had problems with my video card
15:39 ok, end meeting!
15:39 #endmeeting
15:39 meeting Meeting ended Sat Apr 16 15:39:08 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
15:39 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-16T14:04:09.html
15:39 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]11-04-16T14:04:09
15:39 silbe bernie: time of the year for hardware trouble? :-/
15:39 bernie silbe: it's been going on for months
15:39 m_anish silbe, ?
15:40 bernie silbe: i've opened 3-4 bugs for it...but the intel engineers are still scrapping their heads.
15:41 m_anish bernie, silbe a few yrs ago, I had a intel HT 3GHz processor, there were such severe problems with overheating ...
15:42 one day (and I had to copy some critical data to a pen drive), I actually put the heatsink in the freezer for 10 mins, put it over the processor... started my computer... copied data (i used windows back then).. and voila almost instantly afterwards... thermal shutdown!
15:42 (poor quality silicone grease and a shitty heatsink,+ very power hungry intel processor :/ )
15:43 silbe m_anish: back in the days (about a decade ago ;) ) we were ridiculing Intel processors for their heat dissipation. Boiling eggs on it etc. :)
15:44 m_anish silbe, haha
15:45 silbe m_anish: I chose all my recent hardware for low power consumption and thus low heat dissipation. But even without any heat sink at all even the "low" power dissipation of the OpenRD SoC is too high...
15:46 dfarning_afk is now known as dfarning
15:48 m_anish silbe, yah, its improving with time. give it a couple of years or throttle your CPU down to the lowest possible freq :-)
15:49 silbe m_anish: there's no frequency scaling for this CPU. All-or-nothing and hopefully good clock gating.
15:49 m_anish silbe, ugh :/
15:50 silbe, gating some modules off?
15:50 silbe m_anish: research turned out that frequency scaling doesn't really improve things once you got aggressive clock gating in place.
15:50 m_anish silbe, i agree (to an extent)
15:50 silbe, i actually worked on freescale p1022 which is supposed to be pretty low power
15:50 silbe m_anish: that's also why it isn't done on XO-1.5 even though the processor is capable of doing frequency scaling.
15:50 m_anish silbe, but jogging down power does help a bit
15:51 s/power/CPU/
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16:16 cjl silbe bernie on the 'About Actiivity" metadata, txt2po / po3txt from Translate toolkit might be part of an i18n / L10n workflow
16:17 http://translate.sourceforge.n[…]ki/toolkit/txt2po
16:17 s/po3txt/po2text/
16:18 silbe cjl: icarito is already gone, but I'll forward via email
16:18 cjl You'd still have t ofigure out how to work it into the build process, but it would fit in with current Po based workflow in Pootle
16:19 silbe: ok
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22:42 satellit_508 test os508dx.zd
22:45 m_anish: ok I have it installed..what oyou want me to test?
22:45 s/you
22:47 satellit_ will look at all activities first I guess
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