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10:30 | xmars | www.snowlinux.de #linuxsnowlinux |
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13:56 | icarito <icarito!~icaro![]() |
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14:05 | bernie | no meeting? |
14:05 | silbe <silbe!~silbe![]() |
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14:06 | bernie | silbe: hello... no meeting today? |
14:06 | silbe | bernie: there is, just not many attendees |
14:06 | sorry for being late | |
14:06 | icarito | hi |
14:07 | german timeliness, apologizing for 5 mins :-) | |
14:08 | dirakx | -hi all |
14:09 | bernie | icarito: :-) |
14:10 | silbe: wanna chair? | |
14:11 | silbe | bernie: I'm outside and my wifi connection might get flakey, so I'd prefer someone else to chair. If nobody is willing to I can do it though. |
14:11 | dirakx | I did it last week i might pass the flag..;). |
14:12 | bernie | icarito: you, then? |
14:12 | icarito | bernie, ok sure |
14:12 | bernie | m_anish_afk: ping! |
14:12 | icarito | my connection is flaky as well but it should do |
14:12 | edge 2.5G here :-) | |
14:12 | do we have an agenda? | |
14:13 | btw olpc-uruguay list is getting more and more interesting | |
14:13 | as children start to participate | |
14:13 | check this out https://sites.google.com/site/[…]s/Feliz_cumple.xo | |
14:14 | bernie | icarito: happy birthday? |
14:14 | dirakx | +1, I was just seeing the pics. |
14:15 | amazing how some 11 year olds are now starting to program and make activities. | |
14:15 | icarito | reading dfarnings mail |
14:15 | yes :-) | |
14:15 | also agustin made a webkit browser | |
14:15 | AguBroswer :-) | |
14:16 | silbe | we should work on getting our hosting infrastructure to scale better. The number of components in Trac is already overwhelming, to give just one example. |
14:18 | ideally, a.sl.o would be the central "hub" for "community" activities, but enhancing it is blocked by the incomplete transition to Django by upstream | |
14:19 | also AFAICT alsroot (our only a.sl.o hacker) is busy with other tasks | |
14:19 | icarito | so lets # start meeting then? |
14:19 | are we waiting for anyone? | |
14:19 | I have from dfarning's email: 1. The Dextrose 3 rebase Sible has recently completed. | |
14:19 | 2. EduJam preparation which Pablo working on. | |
14:19 | 3. The Dextrose activity Pack Rafael and Sebastian are putting together. | |
14:19 | also we can add 4. ASLO / hosting infrastructure scalability | |
14:20 | silbe | sounds good to me |
14:20 | dirakx | silbe:they have some activities in aslo. I've been trying to suggest improvments and they are very responsive about that. ;) |
14:20 | icarito | good |
14:21 | #startmeeting AC weekly | |
14:21 | silbe | dirakx: nice. How did you contact them? Does a.sl.o provide a messaging facility or email addresses? |
14:21 | dirakx | silbe: more or less I've been keeping track of them on olpc-uy |
14:21 | icarito | guess that didnt work |
14:21 | #startmeeting | |
14:21 | meeting | Meeting started Sat Apr 9 14:21:46 2011 UTC. The chair is icarito. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
14:21 | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting | |
14:21 | icarito | meeting, u there? |
14:21 | meeting | icarito: Error: "u" is not a valid command. |
14:22 | icarito | good |
14:22 | #topic 1. The Dextrose 3 rebase Sible has recently completed. | |
14:23 | silbe, you have the mic | |
14:23 | :-) | |
14:23 | is there an image we can download? | |
14:24 | silbe | yup, it's below https://download.sugarlabs.org[…]trose/testing/dx3 |
14:24 | bernie | i'll reply for him: yes, here it is: http://download.sugarlabs.org/[…]rose/testing/dx3/ |
14:24 | silbe: oops, sorry! | |
14:25 | icarito | december is target release i read, for the southern hemisphere schoolyear |
14:25 | silbe | I haven't announced it widely because there are still a few bugs to solve before it makes sense to involve the wider community. Adding Browse for a start. :) |
14:25 | dirakx | link ;) |
14:25 | bernie | silbe: https is cacert, hence it will cause trouble to all users except for you... |
14:25 | silbe | #link https://download.sugarlabs.org[…]trose/testing/dx3 |
14:25 | icarito | super |
14:26 | silbe | bernie: then we should add a StartSSL cert for download.sl.o. We don't sign our releases, so code injection attacks would be trivial. |
14:26 | (ideally we should do both https and GPG signing, of course) | |
14:27 | target date for DX3 is about June IIRC (same as the next OLPC release). December we will ship DX4. | |
14:28 | icarito | so I understand correctly this is a rebase of dx patches with a newer fedora? sorry about my ignorance its better to ask |
14:28 | silbe | focus for DX3 is aligning with OLPC, QA and upstreaming. |
14:29 | icarito | silbe, what is the main difference between dx3 and next OLPC os? |
14:29 | silbe | essentially, yep. A large number of patches made it upstream, so DX3 currently only has a few custom patches. This will increase once I catch up with the latest DX2 changes (starting with the notification improvements). |
14:31 | icarito | silbe, how can the team help? |
14:31 | dirakx | just a q, under wich version of fedora will be this next release based on ?. |
14:32 | silbe | icarito: AFAIK OLPC won't ship anything beyond what's in upstream 0.92. Anything I rebase to 0.94 will be Dextrose specific for now. |
14:32 | DX3 is based on Fedora 14 | |
14:32 | dirakx | ok |
14:32 | silbe | (as is the next OLPC release) |
14:33 | icarito | cool |
14:33 | topic #2? | |
14:34 | silbe | a good start would be to establish contact with the original authors of the accessibility patch series. I'd like to know the rationale behind it so I can fix it up (it's mostly broken in DX3). |
14:35 | icarito | i dont know anything about the accesibility patches |
14:35 | those the ones with the onscreen keyboard? | |
14:35 | silbe | some fixes involve "just" re-packaging the custom packages (e.g. AccessX), but for others I really need to know how they're expected to work (e.g. "high contrast") |
14:36 | icarito | #action get in touch with original accesibility patches authors |
14:36 | silbe | yup, and incidentally the virtual keyboard is about the only thing that works :) |
14:37 | icarito | would be cool if we had an onscreen reader |
14:37 | orca or so | |
14:38 | silbe | icarito: that requires throwing out hippocanvas. It's on the todo list, but a lot of work. I don't expect it to happen for 0.94. |
14:38 | icarito | congratulations on completing the rebase silbe |
14:39 | silbe | the changes that make orca working also open the door for automated UI testing - crucial for good QA. |
14:40 | icarito | silbe, will you contact the accesibility authors yourself? do you know who they are? |
14:40 | dirakx | that's interesting. |
14:40 | silbe | icarito: nop, that's the problem |
14:40 | bernie | silbe: we should do _only_ gpg signing... https is useless |
14:41 | silbe: we have mirrors, remember? | |
14:41 | silbe | the patch files didn't have any header that would indicate an author; just raw diffs instead of git patches. |
14:41 | icarito | #action find out who the accesibility patch series authors are |
14:42 | ok lets move to EduJam, si? | |
14:42 | dirakx | +1 |
14:42 | silbe | +1 |
14:42 | icarito | #topic 2. EduJam preparation which Pablo working on. |
14:42 | bernie | silbe: the original authors of the accessibility series are Esteban Arias and maybe Daniel Castelo |
14:42 | silbe: they should be in montevideo | |
14:43 | icarito | on this I'm happy to report dirakx is going to Montevideo |
14:43 | bernie | silbe: accessibility is one of the major features of Dextrose, we can't afford to loose it in DX3... teachers love it. |
14:43 | dirakx | mtvdo |
14:43 | icarito | who else is going to montevideo? |
14:43 | dirakx | +1 :) |
14:43 | silbe | bernie: are you going to be at EduJam? if so can you establish contact with them, please? |
14:44 | icarito | +1 |
14:44 | dirakx | i can also contact them if they are around. |
14:44 | icarito | #action establish contact with Esteban Arias and maybe Daniel Castelo at EduJam |
14:45 | silbe | bernie: I'd also like to know what parts of the accessibility features they use / care about. |
14:45 | dirakx | they are from ceibal jam. |
14:46 | icarito | dirakx, do we know if flavio and his kids will be at edujam? i'd have loved to do an activity hacking session with them |
14:46 | (and everyone else of course) | |
14:46 | dirakx | icarito: dunno yet. should be nice to have them there. |
14:47 | s/ceibaljam/planceibal. | |
14:47 | icarito | thinks they (and others like them) are our target audience atm |
14:47 | we need a critical mass of flavios's children | |
14:48 | dirakx | +1. |
14:48 | icarito | would be good to learn the success factors for having children hack like that |
14:49 | silbe | BTW, dogi will help setting up a streaming video server for EduJam. I've looked for some software and ffmpeg / ffserver should do the trick, but I could not get them to work. :-/ |
14:50 | (dogi will help with the VM side - either me or someone else needs to handle the video side) | |
14:50 | dirakx | doesn't know to much about streaming. |
14:50 | too* | |
14:50 | icarito | icecast could do the trick as well |
14:50 | gstreamer | |
14:50 | silbe | icecast is audio only |
14:51 | icarito | it would be good if we could coordinate the hacking sprint to be a distributed event |
14:51 | silbe | can gstreamer serve multiple clients? |
14:51 | icarito: +5 | |
14:51 | icarito | that is have people hacking globally |
14:51 | silbe, that's what you'd need icecast for | |
14:51 | its the setup at http://giss.tv as far as I understand | |
14:52 | silbe | icarito: ok. but AFAICT icecast only supports audio, not video. |
14:52 | icarito | silbe, umm ok I might be wrong then, i'd have a look at the giss.tv wiki |
14:53 | people in lima have been experimenting with this lately | |
14:53 | experimentaltv.org/xotv | |
14:53 | http://experimentaltv.org/xotv | |
14:53 | satellit__ | 2 machines 1 on video and one on audio.? |
14:53 | icarito | i mean #link http://experimentaltv.org/xotv |
14:53 | bernie | silbe: planning to go to edujam, but no plane ticket yet |
14:53 | silbe: aren't you coming? | |
14:53 | silbe: also, i could introduce you by email if you want | |
14:54 | icarito | will miss out on this one (baby is too little) but for next one we'll go |
14:54 | silbe | icarito: hmm, the latest version of icecast seems to support video, but it still looks pretty experimental (e.g. it requires and alpha version of libtheora). Pretty thin ice if you'll excuse the pun. :) |
14:55 | icarito | :-D |
14:55 | silbe | bernie: I'd love to, but can't afford a flight to Uruguay. |
14:55 | bernie | silbe: regarding what features they do care about, i think all of them: virtual keyboard, high contrast, large fonts... |
14:56 | silbe | argl, the accesibility control panel is broken so I can't close it :-/ |
14:56 | sorry, have to restart Sugar, brb | |
14:57 | icarito | ok |
14:57 | dirakx | also virtual keyboard cannot be closed, at least last time i checked. |
14:57 | and in dx2. | |
14:58 | icarito | still hoping to use sugar as main desktop - currently need a good build environment (using alsroot's sweets packages on trisquel) |
14:58 | silbe_ <silbe_!~silbe![]() |
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14:58 | dirakx | hmm automaticall update seems to have fixed it. |
14:59 | bernie | silbe_: you're using sugar for your irc? |
14:59 | silbe_ | bernie: I'm using irssi inside xterm inside Sugar :) |
14:59 | bernie | dirakx: ah, please file a bug |
14:59 | silbe has quit IRC | |
14:59 | bernie | dirakx: never mind (if it's been fixed) |
14:59 | silbe_ | the Terminal activity is way too slow and the IRC activity doesn't have several features I need |
15:00 | dirakx | bernie: sure np. |
15:00 | silbe_ is now known as silbe | |
15:01 | dirakx | silbe: IRC is based on purk..iirc, we should update purk to see if it has more features. /me should investigate. |
15:02 | icarito has quit IRC | |
15:03 | satellit__ | irc-9 was recently updated to remember name and channels and has english and spanish sugar |
15:03 | 2 tabs | |
15:03 | dirakx | satellit__: +1. |
15:04 | icarito <icarito!~icaro![]() |
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15:04 | dirakx | bernie: http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/2569 ;) |
15:04 | icarito | hi i'm sorry mi connection failed and I didnt realize |
15:04 | looks at backlog | |
15:05 | was speaking alone for a while | |
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15:06 | silbe <silbe!~silbe![]() |
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15:06 | icarito | ok i was saying this |
15:06 | #action make the hacking sprint a global distributed event ( dirakx , bernie will be onsite ) | |
15:06 | #action silbe is working with dogi in having a video stream | |
15:06 | lets move to #3 | |
15:06 | #topic 3. The Dextrose activity Pack Rafael and Sebastian are putting together. | |
15:07 | btw IRC is in the list | |
15:07 | if anyone missed to say something on #1 or #2 please do | |
15:07 | dirakx | ok, I've been working on our 1 prority list. cleaning term, chat and write. as per our distribution icarito |
15:07 | icarito | on Dextrose Activity Pack... dirakx and I are working on it, we've split activities between us |
15:08 | activity tasks on my side is doing new toolbars for tamtam suite and finishing "About" dialog proposal for design team | |
15:08 | expect email on sugar-devel about that today | |
15:08 | also i'm working on a GIT backend for "File Share" activity | |
15:08 | as in a http://sparkleshare.org client | |
15:09 | for sugar | |
15:09 | dirakx, cool lets sync with m_anish this week to learn how to release our first bundle pack to them | |
15:09 | silbe | #link http://activities.sugarlabs.or[…]/sugar/addon/4266 |
15:10 | dirakx | icarito: nifty |
15:11 | icarito | #action dirakx and icarito will sync with m_anish_afk for releasing a bundle pack |
15:11 | dirakx, what else is on the BBQ for us? | |
15:11 | silbe | #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/FileShare |
15:12 | dirakx | icarito: tackling browse bugs :(. |
15:12 | is setting Fedora VMs to diagnoze. | |
15:12 | icarito | File Share currently uses python httpserve - but the functionality for server side is not very usable |
15:13 | dirakx | icarito: seems like sparkleshare is more robust? |
15:13 | icarito | dirakx, not necesarily sparkleshare but GIT is pretty robust |
15:14 | silbe | FWIW, cscott did some prototype for exporting Journal entries via HTTP/RSS/HTML some time ago. |
15:14 | icarito | since we use it all over I thought it would be ideal |
15:14 | silbe | icarito: what do you imagine the FileShare activity to do (w.r.t. git)? |
15:15 | icarito | silbe, intereseting - the main difficulty I see is translating journal items into files and back |
15:15 | silbe, file share has a "server.py" script | |
15:15 | it stores files in a central server | |
15:15 | I'd like to get rid of that and use git instead | |
15:15 | silbe | icarito: that part is actually pretty easy - see the file sharing feature of the Journal and the Backup / Restore activities. |
15:15 | icarito | silbe, and hopefully make it auto-add-commit-push and poll the server for changes like sparkleshare does |
15:16 | silbe | I could easily factor out a (multi-entry) Journal Entry Bundle library if there's interest. |
15:16 | icarito | silbe ideally this would be done in a way other environments will be able to look at the files |
15:16 | and modify them | |
15:16 | silbe | icarito: that's what standard protocols like HTTP are for. |
15:17 | icarito | silbe, what i'd like to do is make this transparent like in DropBox |
15:17 | think of networked gvfs-journal | |
15:17 | does that make sense? | |
15:17 | silbe | icarito: let's discuss this after the meeting - for a start I don't know how dropbox works :) |
15:18 | icarito | ok |
15:18 | thanks! | |
15:18 | unless dirakx has anything to add | |
15:18 | lets discuss silbe's #4 | |
15:18 | dirakx | icarito: nope. we can go on |
15:18 | icarito | yes? |
15:19 | dirakx | sure. |
15:19 | icarito | #topic 4. ASLO / hosting infrastructure scalability |
15:19 | silbe, which parts do you see as bottlenecks? | |
15:20 | the way I see it we have ASLO + GIT + trac | |
15:20 | I agree its a bit messy | |
15:20 | not to mention wiki | |
15:21 | silbe | icarito: the most prominent example (in my eyes at least) is Trac. 1) I need to add components manually, 2) the component list is already way too large. An increasing number of tickets is filed either against untriaged or the wrong component. |
15:21 | gitorious should actually scale well enough, it's made for this kind of usage. | |
15:22 | dirakx | silbe: Not sure how to handle trac scalability, but I feel your complaints also. |
15:23 | silbe | another problem is the lack of integration. a.sl.o is supposed to bring all the pieces together, but currently doesn't and development is blocked by the incomplete Django migration by upstream. |
15:23 | icarito | silbe, what functinoality is missing in ASLO you'd like to have? |
15:23 | silbe, perhaps moving bug tracking of activities to gitorious would scale better? | |
15:24 | just a thought | |
15:24 | silbe | icarito: proper links to all the other sites. "Report bug", "list bugs", how to contribute (send patches), etc.pp. |
15:24 | icarito: does gitorious have bug tracking functionality? | |
15:25 | icarito | i thought it did |
15:25 | looking | |
15:25 | silbe | and of course this is all idle chat if nobody volunteers to work on it - I won't have time to do it. Important idle chat, but still. |
15:25 | icarito | ouch looks like it doesnt |
15:26 | silbe, expand "work on it" | |
15:26 | silbe | icarito: well, work towards fixing above issues. :) |
15:27 | icarito | if we're blocked on ASLO, what do you suggest we should work on? |
15:27 | I have an idea | |
15:27 | maybe we can add some items to activity.info file | |
15:27 | like bug reporting URL for instance | |
15:27 | then ASLO can pick up the links from here | |
15:27 | silbe | that would be a good idea regardless |
15:28 | dirakx | alsroot was working on that until the django migration mess. |
15:28 | icarito | i'd like to give a go at ASLO as it bothers me as well but I wont be able until a couple of weeks when I have a better connection and i'm done with some activity work |
15:28 | dirakx | if we continue would be harder to translate that work to the new django-based aslo. |
15:29 | silbe | the "block" part re. a.sl.o is that alsroot doesn't want to add further features since he'd need to redo them after the Django migration finishes. So if we care enough about it short term, we can "just" put in the extra work. |
15:29 | dirakx | silbe: +1. |
15:30 | silbe | this would only make sense if we find somebody _else_ that does it - somebody who isn't already involved with Sugar Labs. I.e. a nice task for a PHP hacker to join the community. |
15:30 | icarito | ok so if nothing changes regarding this in 2 weeks I'll have a proper look |
15:31 | has (too much) php experience | |
15:32 | silbe | icarito: thx! maybe we should also try contacting pflores about it - it's for the community and we'd like someone from the community to work on it. |
15:32 | icarito | i dont know if pflores's role is to hack on things but who doesnt love to hack on things |
15:32 | :-) | |
15:32 | +1 | |
15:33 | silbe | people want us to move to other languages to make Sugar "easier" to hack on - here's their chance to provide value without hacking on Sugar core ;) |
15:33 | icarito | #action icarito will take a look at ASLO in 2 weeks |
15:34 | silbe | icarito: my point is that we want to get _others_ involved. Scale our team, not fiddle with priorities for the existing team. |
15:34 | icarito: that's where pflores might be able to help out. | |
15:34 | icarito | silbe, understood, so then I suggest doing this, email to [sur] asking for PHP hackers |
15:35 | the blocker is doing work that will have to be done again under django | |
15:35 | dirakx | silbe: agreed and our team must be focused in django-aslo. inmo. |
15:35 | silbe | icarito: good idea. sur is a spanish language ml, right? can you do it? (I don't speak spanish) |
15:35 | icarito | #action ask [sur] about PHP hackers for ASLO |
15:35 | dirakx | :). |
15:36 | icarito | sure thing - where do I send them? git repo of ASLO? |
15:36 | silbe | icarito: we should be careful to phrase it in a way that shows their work will be useful even after the Django migration. They get to do the prototype, the design. |
15:37 | icarito | btw what is gitorious in? PHP? |
15:37 | silbe | icarito: RoR I think. I'm sure about the Ruby part. :) |
15:37 | icarito | does aslroot own ASLO? I dont want to step on anybody's toes |
15:38 | silbe | icarito: I can't imagine he'd mind somebody else working on a.sl.o, but asking is polite. ;0 |
15:38 | :) I meant | |
15:39 | icarito | good |
15:39 | so I think we're done | |
15:39 | silbe | ok, any other ideas? otherwise I'd say we're done |
15:39 | icarito | yes? |
15:39 | dirakx | yep |
15:39 | done. | |
15:40 | icarito | cool, we're mind-melding |
15:40 | #info thanks was a cool meeting :-) | |
15:40 | #endmeeting | |
15:40 | meeting | Meeting ended Sat Apr 9 15:40:29 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4) |
15:40 | Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-09T14:21:46.html | |
15:40 | Log: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]11-04-09T14:21:46 | |
15:40 | silbe | we're starting to be a team :) |
15:40 | icarito | sorry if the meeting was a bit long |
15:41 | silbe | icarito: I have to apologise - most of it was me talking. |
15:41 | dirakx | thanks all. |
15:41 | silbe | -> indoors, brb |
15:42 | icarito | silbe, nah it was all constructive mein guter freund |
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22:35 | m_anish_afk is now known as m_anish | |
22:36 | m_anish | dirakx, bernie sorry, couldn't make the meeting :/ |
22:36 | bernie, met kenny today! | |
22:41 | bernie | m_anish: ah, how is he? say hello |
22:53 | dirakx | m_anish: np ;) |
23:18 | cjl has quit IRC |
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