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#sugar-meeting, 2011-04-09

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Time Nick Message
01:01 m_anish is now known as m_anish_afk
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10:30 xmars www.snowlinux.de #linuxsnowlinux
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14:05 bernie no meeting?
14:05 silbe <silbe!~silbe@2001:6f8:120a:0:1e65:9dff:fec1:22aa> has joined #sugar-meeting
14:06 bernie silbe: hello... no meeting today?
14:06 silbe bernie: there is, just not many attendees
14:06 sorry for being late
14:06 icarito hi
14:07 german timeliness, apologizing for 5 mins :-)
14:08 dirakx -hi all
14:09 bernie icarito: :-)
14:10 silbe: wanna chair?
14:11 silbe bernie: I'm outside and my wifi connection might get flakey, so I'd prefer someone else to chair. If nobody is willing to I can do it though.
14:11 dirakx I did it last week i might pass the flag..;).
14:12 bernie icarito: you, then?
14:12 icarito bernie, ok sure
14:12 bernie m_anish_afk: ping!
14:12 icarito my connection is flaky as well but it should do
14:12 edge 2.5G here :-)
14:12 do we have an agenda?
14:13 btw olpc-uruguay list is getting more and more interesting
14:13 as children start to participate
14:13 check this out https://sites.google.com/site/[…]s/Feliz_cumple.xo
14:14 bernie icarito: happy birthday?
14:14 dirakx +1, I was just seeing the pics.
14:15 amazing how some 11 year olds are now starting to program and make activities.
14:15 icarito reading dfarnings mail
14:15 yes :-)
14:15 also agustin made a webkit browser
14:15 AguBroswer :-)
14:16 silbe we should work on getting our hosting infrastructure to scale better. The number of components in Trac is already overwhelming, to give just one example.
14:18 ideally, a.sl.o would be the central "hub" for "community" activities, but enhancing it is blocked by the incomplete transition to Django by upstream
14:19 also AFAICT alsroot (our only a.sl.o hacker) is busy with other tasks
14:19 icarito so lets # start meeting then?
14:19 are we waiting for anyone?
14:19 I have from dfarning's email: 1. The Dextrose 3 rebase Sible has recently completed.
14:19 2. EduJam preparation which Pablo working on.
14:19 3. The Dextrose activity Pack Rafael and Sebastian are putting together.
14:19 also we can add 4. ASLO / hosting infrastructure scalability
14:20 silbe sounds good to me
14:20 dirakx silbe:they have some activities in aslo. I've been trying to suggest improvments and they are very responsive about that. ;)
14:20 icarito good
14:21 #startmeeting AC weekly
14:21 silbe dirakx: nice. How did you contact them? Does a.sl.o provide a messaging facility or email addresses?
14:21 dirakx silbe: more or less I've been keeping track of them on olpc-uy
14:21 icarito guess that didnt work
14:21 #startmeeting
14:21 meeting Meeting started Sat Apr  9 14:21:46 2011 UTC. The chair is icarito. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:21 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
14:21 icarito meeting, u there?
14:21 meeting icarito: Error: "u" is not a valid command.
14:22 icarito good
14:22 #topic  1. The Dextrose 3 rebase Sible has recently completed.
14:23 silbe, you have the mic
14:23 :-)
14:23 is there an image we can download?
14:24 silbe yup, it's below https://download.sugarlabs.org[…]trose/testing/dx3
14:24 bernie i'll reply for him: yes, here it is: http://download.sugarlabs.org/[…]rose/testing/dx3/
14:24 silbe: oops, sorry!
14:25 icarito december is target release i read, for the southern hemisphere schoolyear
14:25 silbe I haven't announced it widely because there are still a few bugs to solve before it makes sense to involve the wider community. Adding Browse for a start. :)
14:25 dirakx link ;)
14:25 bernie silbe: https is cacert, hence it will cause trouble to all users except for you...
14:25 silbe #link https://download.sugarlabs.org[…]trose/testing/dx3
14:25 icarito super
14:26 silbe bernie: then we should add a StartSSL cert for download.sl.o. We don't sign our releases, so code injection attacks would be trivial.
14:26 (ideally we should do both https and GPG signing, of course)
14:27 target date for DX3 is about June IIRC (same as the next OLPC release). December we will ship DX4.
14:28 icarito so I understand correctly this is a rebase of dx patches with a newer fedora? sorry about my ignorance its better to ask
14:28 silbe focus for DX3 is aligning with OLPC, QA and upstreaming.
14:29 icarito silbe, what is the main difference between dx3 and next OLPC os?
14:29 silbe essentially, yep. A large number of patches made it upstream, so DX3 currently only has a few custom patches. This will increase once I catch up with the latest DX2 changes (starting with the notification improvements).
14:31 icarito silbe, how can the team help?
14:31 dirakx just a q, under wich version of fedora will be this next release based on ?.
14:32 silbe icarito: AFAIK OLPC won't ship anything beyond what's in upstream 0.92. Anything I rebase to 0.94 will be Dextrose specific for now.
14:32 DX3 is based on Fedora 14
14:32 dirakx ok
14:32 silbe (as is the next OLPC release)
14:33 icarito cool
14:33 topic #2?
14:34 silbe a good start would be to establish contact with the original authors of the accessibility patch series. I'd like to know the rationale behind it so I can fix it up (it's mostly broken in DX3).
14:35 icarito i dont know anything about the accesibility patches
14:35 those the ones with the onscreen keyboard?
14:35 silbe some fixes involve "just" re-packaging the custom packages (e.g. AccessX), but for others I really need to know how they're expected to work (e.g. "high contrast")
14:36 icarito #action get in touch with original accesibility patches authors
14:36 silbe yup, and incidentally the virtual keyboard is about the only thing that works :)
14:37 icarito would be cool if we had an onscreen reader
14:37 orca or so
14:38 silbe icarito: that requires throwing out hippocanvas. It's on the todo list, but a lot of work. I don't expect it to happen for 0.94.
14:38 icarito congratulations on completing the rebase silbe
14:39 silbe the changes that make orca working also open the door for automated UI testing - crucial for good QA.
14:40 icarito silbe, will you contact the accesibility authors yourself? do you know who they are?
14:40 dirakx that's interesting.
14:40 silbe icarito: nop, that's the problem
14:40 bernie silbe: we should do _only_ gpg signing... https is useless
14:41 silbe: we have mirrors, remember?
14:41 silbe the patch files didn't have any header that would indicate an author; just raw diffs instead of git patches.
14:41 icarito #action find out who the accesibility patch series authors are
14:42 ok lets move to EduJam, si?
14:42 dirakx +1
14:42 silbe +1
14:42 icarito #topic 2. EduJam preparation which Pablo working on.
14:42 bernie silbe: the original authors of the accessibility series are Esteban Arias and maybe Daniel Castelo
14:42 silbe: they should be in montevideo
14:43 icarito on this I'm happy to report dirakx is going to Montevideo
14:43 bernie silbe: accessibility is one of the major features of Dextrose, we can't afford to loose it in DX3... teachers love it.
14:43 dirakx mtvdo
14:43 icarito who else is going to montevideo?
14:43 dirakx +1 :)
14:43 silbe bernie: are you going to be at EduJam? if so can you establish contact with them, please?
14:44 icarito +1
14:44 dirakx i can also contact them if they are around.
14:44 icarito #action establish contact with Esteban Arias and maybe Daniel Castelo at EduJam
14:45 silbe bernie: I'd also like to know what parts of the accessibility features they use / care about.
14:45 dirakx they are from ceibal jam.
14:46 icarito dirakx, do we know if flavio and his kids will be at edujam? i'd have loved to do an activity hacking session with them
14:46 (and everyone else of course)
14:46 dirakx icarito: dunno yet. should be nice to have them there.
14:47 s/ceibaljam/planceibal.
14:47 icarito thinks they (and others like them) are our target audience atm
14:47 we need a critical mass of flavios's children
14:48 dirakx +1.
14:48 icarito would be good to learn the success factors for having children hack like that
14:49 silbe BTW, dogi will help setting up a streaming video server for EduJam. I've looked for some software and ffmpeg / ffserver should do the trick, but I could not get them to work. :-/
14:50 (dogi will help with the VM side - either me or someone else needs to handle the video side)
14:50 dirakx doesn't know to much about streaming.
14:50 too*
14:50 icarito icecast could do the trick as well
14:50 gstreamer
14:50 silbe icecast is audio only
14:51 icarito it would be good if we could coordinate the hacking sprint to be a distributed event
14:51 silbe can gstreamer serve multiple clients?
14:51 icarito: +5
14:51 icarito that is have people hacking globally
14:51 silbe, that's what you'd need icecast for
14:51 its the setup at http://giss.tv as far as I understand
14:52 silbe icarito: ok. but AFAICT icecast only supports audio, not video.
14:52 icarito silbe, umm ok I might be wrong then, i'd have a look at the giss.tv wiki
14:53 people in lima have been experimenting with this lately
14:53 experimentaltv.org/xotv
14:53 http://experimentaltv.org/xotv
14:53 satellit__ 2 machines 1 on video and one on audio.?
14:53 icarito i mean #link http://experimentaltv.org/xotv
14:53 bernie silbe: planning to go to edujam, but no plane ticket yet
14:53 silbe: aren't you coming?
14:53 silbe: also, i could introduce you by email if you want
14:54 icarito will miss out on this one (baby is too little) but for next one we'll go
14:54 silbe icarito: hmm, the latest version of icecast seems to support video, but it still looks pretty experimental (e.g. it requires and alpha version of libtheora). Pretty thin ice if you'll excuse the pun. :)
14:55 icarito :-D
14:55 silbe bernie: I'd love to, but can't afford a flight to Uruguay.
14:55 bernie silbe: regarding what features they do care about, i think all of them: virtual keyboard, high contrast, large fonts...
14:56 silbe argl, the accesibility control panel is broken so I can't close it :-/
14:56 sorry, have to restart Sugar, brb
14:57 icarito ok
14:57 dirakx also virtual keyboard cannot be closed, at least last time i checked.
14:57 and in dx2.
14:58 icarito still hoping to use sugar as main desktop - currently need a good build environment (using alsroot's sweets packages on trisquel)
14:58 silbe_ <silbe_!~silbe@cl-425.cgn-01.de.sixxs.net> has joined #sugar-meeting
14:58 dirakx hmm automaticall update seems to have fixed it.
14:59 bernie silbe_: you're using sugar for your irc?
14:59 silbe_ bernie: I'm using irssi inside xterm inside Sugar :)
14:59 bernie dirakx: ah, please file a bug
14:59 silbe has quit IRC
14:59 bernie dirakx: never mind (if it's been fixed)
14:59 silbe_ the Terminal activity is way too slow and the IRC activity doesn't have several features I need
15:00 dirakx bernie: sure np.
15:00 silbe_ is now known as silbe
15:01 dirakx silbe: IRC is based on purk..iirc, we should update purk to see if it has more features. /me should investigate.
15:02 icarito has quit IRC
15:03 satellit__ irc-9 was recently updated to remember name and channels and has english and spanish sugar
15:03 2 tabs
15:03 dirakx satellit__: +1.
15:04 icarito <icarito!~icaro@> has joined #sugar-meeting
15:04 dirakx bernie: http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/2569 ;)
15:04 icarito hi i'm sorry mi connection failed and I didnt realize
15:04 looks at backlog
15:05 was speaking alone for a while
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15:06 icarito ok i was saying this
15:06 #action make the hacking sprint a global distributed event ( dirakx , bernie  will be onsite )
15:06 #action silbe is working with dogi in having a video stream
15:06 lets move to #3
15:06 #topic 3. The Dextrose activity Pack Rafael and Sebastian are putting together.
15:07 btw IRC is in the list
15:07 if anyone missed to say something on #1 or #2 please do
15:07 dirakx ok, I've been working on our 1 prority list. cleaning term, chat and write. as per our distribution icarito
15:07 icarito on Dextrose Activity Pack... dirakx and I are working on it, we've split activities between us
15:08 activity tasks on my side is doing new toolbars for tamtam suite and finishing "About" dialog proposal for design team
15:08 expect email on sugar-devel about that today
15:08 also i'm working on a GIT backend for "File Share" activity
15:08 as in a http://sparkleshare.org client
15:09 for sugar
15:09 dirakx, cool lets sync with m_anish this week to learn how to release our first bundle pack to them
15:09 silbe #link http://activities.sugarlabs.or[…]/sugar/addon/4266
15:10 dirakx icarito: nifty
15:11 icarito #action dirakx and icarito will sync with m_anish_afk for releasing a bundle pack
15:11 dirakx, what else is on the BBQ for us?
15:11 silbe #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/FileShare
15:12 dirakx icarito: tackling browse bugs :(.
15:12 is setting Fedora VMs to diagnoze.
15:12 icarito File Share currently uses python httpserve - but the functionality for server side is not very usable
15:13 dirakx icarito: seems like sparkleshare is more robust?
15:13 icarito dirakx, not necesarily sparkleshare but GIT is pretty robust
15:14 silbe FWIW, cscott did some prototype for exporting Journal entries via HTTP/RSS/HTML some time ago.
15:14 icarito since we use it all over I thought it would be ideal
15:14 silbe icarito: what do you imagine the FileShare activity to do (w.r.t. git)?
15:15 icarito silbe, intereseting - the main difficulty I see is translating journal items into files and back
15:15 silbe, file share has a "server.py" script
15:15 it stores files in a central server
15:15 I'd like to get rid of that and use git instead
15:15 silbe icarito: that part is actually pretty easy - see the file sharing feature of the Journal and the Backup / Restore activities.
15:15 icarito silbe, and hopefully make it auto-add-commit-push and poll the server for changes like sparkleshare does
15:16 silbe I could easily factor out a (multi-entry) Journal Entry Bundle library if there's interest.
15:16 icarito silbe ideally this would be done in a way other environments will be able to look at the files
15:16 and modify them
15:16 silbe icarito: that's what standard protocols like HTTP are for.
15:17 icarito silbe, what i'd like to do is make this transparent like in DropBox
15:17 think of networked gvfs-journal
15:17 does that make sense?
15:17 silbe icarito: let's discuss this after the meeting - for a start I don't know how dropbox works :)
15:18 icarito ok
15:18 thanks!
15:18 unless dirakx has anything to add
15:18 lets discuss silbe's #4
15:18 dirakx icarito: nope. we can go on
15:18 icarito yes?
15:19 dirakx sure.
15:19 icarito #topic 4. ASLO / hosting infrastructure scalability
15:19 silbe, which parts do you see as bottlenecks?
15:20 the way I see it we have ASLO + GIT + trac
15:20 I agree its a bit messy
15:20 not to mention wiki
15:21 silbe icarito: the most prominent example (in my eyes at least) is Trac. 1) I need to add components manually, 2) the component list is already way too large. An increasing number of tickets is filed either against untriaged or the wrong component.
15:21 gitorious should actually scale well enough, it's made for this kind of usage.
15:22 dirakx silbe: Not sure how to handle trac scalability, but I feel your complaints also.
15:23 silbe another problem is the lack of integration. a.sl.o is supposed to bring all the pieces together, but currently doesn't and development is blocked by the incomplete Django migration by upstream.
15:23 icarito silbe, what functinoality is missing in ASLO you'd like to have?
15:23 silbe, perhaps moving bug tracking of activities to gitorious would scale better?
15:24 just a thought
15:24 silbe icarito: proper links to all the other sites. "Report bug", "list bugs", how to contribute (send patches), etc.pp.
15:24 icarito: does gitorious have bug tracking functionality?
15:25 icarito i thought it did
15:25 looking
15:25 silbe and of course this is all idle chat if nobody volunteers to work on it - I won't have time to do it. Important idle chat, but still.
15:25 icarito ouch looks like it doesnt
15:26 silbe, expand "work on it"
15:26 silbe icarito: well, work towards fixing above issues. :)
15:27 icarito if we're blocked on ASLO, what do you suggest we should work on?
15:27 I have an idea
15:27 maybe we can add some items to activity.info file
15:27 like bug reporting URL for instance
15:27 then ASLO can pick up the links from here
15:27 silbe that would be a good idea regardless
15:28 dirakx alsroot was working on that until the django migration mess.
15:28 icarito i'd like to give a go at ASLO as it bothers me as well but I wont be able until a couple of weeks when I have a better connection and i'm done with some activity work
15:28 dirakx if we continue would be harder to translate that work to the new django-based aslo.
15:29 silbe the "block" part re. a.sl.o is that alsroot doesn't want to add further features since he'd need to redo them after the Django migration finishes. So if we care enough about it short term, we can "just" put in the extra work.
15:29 dirakx silbe: +1.
15:30 silbe this would only make sense if we find somebody _else_ that does it - somebody who isn't already involved with Sugar Labs. I.e. a nice task for a PHP hacker to join the community.
15:30 icarito ok so if nothing changes regarding this in 2 weeks I'll have a proper look
15:31 has (too much) php experience
15:32 silbe icarito: thx! maybe we should also try contacting pflores about it - it's for the community and we'd like someone from the community to work on it.
15:32 icarito i dont know if pflores's role is to hack on things but who doesnt love to hack on things
15:32 :-)
15:32 +1
15:33 silbe people want us to move to other languages to make Sugar "easier" to hack on - here's their chance to provide value without hacking on Sugar core ;)
15:33 icarito #action icarito will take a look at ASLO in 2 weeks
15:34 silbe icarito: my point is that we want to get _others_ involved. Scale our team, not fiddle with priorities for the existing team.
15:34 icarito: that's where pflores might be able to help out.
15:34 icarito silbe, understood, so then I suggest doing this, email to [sur] asking for PHP hackers
15:35 the blocker is doing work that will have to be done again under django
15:35 dirakx silbe: agreed and our team must be focused in django-aslo. inmo.
15:35 silbe icarito: good idea. sur is a spanish language ml, right? can you do it? (I don't speak spanish)
15:35 icarito #action ask [sur] about PHP hackers for ASLO
15:35 dirakx :).
15:36 icarito sure thing - where do I send them? git repo of ASLO?
15:36 silbe icarito: we should be careful to phrase it in a way that shows their work will be useful even after the Django migration. They get to do the prototype, the design.
15:37 icarito btw what is gitorious in? PHP?
15:37 silbe icarito: RoR I think. I'm sure about the Ruby part. :)
15:37 icarito does aslroot own ASLO? I dont want to step on anybody's toes
15:38 silbe icarito: I can't imagine he'd mind somebody else working on a.sl.o, but asking is polite. ;0
15:38 :) I meant
15:39 icarito good
15:39 so I think we're done
15:39 silbe ok, any other ideas? otherwise I'd say we're done
15:39 icarito yes?
15:39 dirakx yep
15:39 done.
15:40 icarito cool, we're mind-melding
15:40 #info thanks was a cool meeting :-)
15:40 #endmeeting
15:40 meeting Meeting ended Sat Apr  9 15:40:29 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
15:40 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-09T14:21:46.html
15:40 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]11-04-09T14:21:46
15:40 silbe we're starting to be a team :)
15:40 icarito sorry if the meeting was a bit long
15:41 silbe icarito: I have to apologise - most of it was me talking.
15:41 dirakx thanks all.
15:41 silbe -> indoors, brb
15:42 icarito silbe, nah it was all constructive mein guter freund
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22:36 m_anish dirakx, bernie sorry, couldn't make the meeting :/
22:36 bernie, met kenny today!
22:41 bernie m_anish: ah, how is he? say hello
22:53 dirakx m_anish: np ;)
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