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#sugar-meeting, 2011-03-27

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14:59 walterbender hi gary
15:00 garycmartin Hi folks, anyone here for the design meeting? Christian can't make it today as he's on a flight.
15:00 Hi walterbender!
15:01 walterbender garycmartin: anything we can cover with out Christian? Or should we just queue up some more topics for next week?
15:03 silbe <silbe!~silbe@2001:6f8:120a:0:1e65:9dff:fec1:22aa> has joined #sugar-meeting
15:04 silbe hi!
15:04 garycmartin I'd quite like to get some feedback for Godiard's Record activity re-work, it's been waiting a couple of weeks at least and I'm sure he'd like to make more of a start on it.
15:04 walterbender sure
15:04 garycmartin Hi silbe!
15:04 #startmeeting
15:04 meeting Meeting started Sun Mar 27 15:04:42 2011 UTC. The chair is garycmartin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:04 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
15:05 garycmartin #topic Feedback for Record Activity toolbar re-work
15:05 #link http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User[…]Record/NewToolbar
15:07 walterbender: silbe: have either of you had a chance to look at Gonzalo's mockups yet (above link)?
15:07 walterbender I think it looks great...
15:07 clean and consistent
15:08 silbe garycmartin: I did, but unfortunately didn't take notes. I'll try to remember...
15:08 garycmartin A few points I noted were:
15:09 silbe ah, yes, the "canvas" / mode change on activation of a palette (via right-click or hover)...
15:10 How about doing an explicit mode selection widget (e.g. combo box) and mode-specific widgets / toolbars on the right side of it?
15:10 garycmartin * camera icon (and video, and microphone) styling camera-externial from sugar-artwork is a good style guide for the other two.
15:11 silbe I don't have a strong opinion on this, though - I'll like agree with anything you think works best for "normal" users.
15:11 listens to garycmartin now
15:11 garycmartin * should the icons actually be the eye, lips type design (also both in sugar-artwork, though nothing for video)
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15:12 garycmartin * if we do recommend the eye/lips type design, the lips should really be an ear :-)
15:14 * I like the addition of the edit scissors, I can see new features going here at some future point (splice clips, slice clips, crop image type thing)
15:15 * the Timer feature seems better in the secondary toolbar to keep the primary toolbar cleaner (Timer is also a more advanced feature likely less used).
15:16 walterbender the timer could appear on each secondary toolbar...
15:17 garycmartin * Journal metadata editor could perhaps use 'switch to journal details view' API, and in the future use the new proposed system wide details view editor.
15:17 walterbender: 'timer could appear on each secondary toolbar', yes, that was what I was thinking.
15:18 walterbender garycmartin: the tricky thing with the switch to journal details view is that it would need to be triggered for the objects, not the activity
15:19 garycmartin: so there will have to be a way to make the distinction
15:21 garycmartin walterbender: I have a note that the objects should be written to Journal as soon as recording is stopped. Currently they are all added to the Journal when you switch view or Stop, causing a nasty lag if you've been working on a few. If each is put in the Journal when recording is stopped, it should have a list of those Journal object to switch to?
15:22 walterbender: does the API only work for the main Activity Journal instance?
15:22 (sorry, haven't used that feature yet myself)
15:23 walterbender well, the API could presumably work for any Journal object. but it is a matter of the UI conveying to the API which object
15:23 garycmartin: not sure it as been implemented yet
15:24 garycmartin: I agree we want to write objects to the journal as they are created, not just when we go to background or exit.
15:24 garycmartin walterbender: just trying to remember, didn't silbe mention an existing case in last weeks meeting? Hmmm, mind's gone blank.
15:24 walterbender well, we have the existing naming alert API, which could be called for any journal object.
15:25 silbe walterbender: what's the exact issue you're talking about? implementation or UI?
15:26 walterbender: implementation side should be easy enough. We already have API for invoking the Journal details view (used by Browse for the "Show download in Journal" alert)
15:26 garycmartin silbe: YES! I knew you'd mentioned it last week :-)
15:26 walterbender silbe: we are discussing the need for writing details about photos taken, not just the activity in which they are taken
15:27 silbe walterbender: that part was clear. But what's the problem? Making the difference between those two clear on the UI side? Or some technical issue?
15:27 walterbender garycmartin: so it seems the pieces are there... what does the UI look like then?
15:27 silbe: UI
15:28 silbe ok, then I'll let you two figure it out ;)
15:28 garycmartin silbe: does the current API allow revealing details of any Journal object you have a reference too?
15:29 walterbender: If you look at the last image:
15:29 #link http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User[…]/NewToolbar#Info_.2F_Playback_.2F_Take_notes_toolbar
15:30 walterbender looked...
15:30 garycmartin: so we just call the API always...
15:31 likes the idea of having the note-taking apparatus always available
15:31 silbe garycmartin: yup, it does. You pass the uid of the entry.
15:31 garycmartin This pretty much duplicates the proposal for editing metadata at any time.
15:33 silbe: fab, so a 'show/edit details for this object' feature would be backwards compatible.
15:34 silbe garycmartin: definitely. Even the use case is very similar (between Browse and Record).
15:35 garycmartin walterbender: we hadn't come up with an agreed design for invocation, other than we had been talking about replacing the current 'Keep' placement with a detail view invocation widget.
15:35 walterbender garycmartin: no consensus yet, but close.
15:36 garycmartin walterbender: will need to consider the Record case where there are potentially multiple objects in an activity that you might want to detail view/edit.
15:38 walterbender: likely use the same visual, badge the thumbs in Record with a journal/info/metadata type widget, and use the same in the Activity secondary palette (where Keep is just now) for the general case of getting to the Activities actual metadata.
15:38 walterbender It is not clear from the sketches whether or not the detail view is shown while the recording is on-going... then it would be slightly different from what Browse does.
15:40 garycmartin walterbender: I took it that the in the sketches, the details would only show if you clicked on a thumb, or clicked on the (i) toolbar icon (likely a toggle to show/hid the details side panel).
15:41 walterbender garycmartin: but during recording? I suppose it won't matter, but the current detail view is essentially full screen so the record controls would be hidden.
15:42 garycmartin walterbender: that primary toolbar (i) widget can go away, and it's replacement visual be badged on, say, the bottom right corner of each thumb, making it clearer that each object has independent details that can be edited.
15:43 walterbender garycmartin: +1
15:44 garycmartin: that is not unlike the way the old recoard worked, only it didn't use the detail view
15:44 garycmartin walterbender: Think there might be a technical hitch, once you're looking at an objects Journal detail view, does clicking the resume button start some new activity that supports the file type, or would it switch back to the Record instance?
15:45 walterbender garycmartin, silbe: I suppose it would resume the object, not Record. But is it not the Journal being openned and Record is still running as well... Alt-Tab?
15:45 so more of a UI hitch than technical
15:47 silbe garycmartin: we had a discussion touching that topic some time ago... IIRC the objects created by a Record session _should_ be independent from the session. They might currently not be, but that would be a bug then.
15:48 garycmartin: if we had an Action View in the Journal, it would show that during <session> the objects <photo1>, <photo2>, ... were recorded.
15:48 garycmartin silbe: yep.
15:49 silbe garycmartin: the Object View OTOH would just show the session and each photo individually, with no apparent relationship between them. Maybe it wouldn't show the session at all - not sure.
15:51 garycmartin silbe: can we pop back to the "canvas" / mode change on activation you mentioned earlier. It's still a bit of a worry in my mind.
15:51 walterbender: silbe: how to you two feel about, is it just me worrying?
15:54 silbe garycmartin: I consider it potentially confusing and would prefer a different approach.
15:55 garycmartin: what do you think of the explicit mode change widget I mentioned? Might that be worth a try?
15:57 walterbender thinks
15:58 silbe notes the time. Should we wrap up and assign action items, e.g. alternative mock-ups?
15:58 walterbender seems like we have pretty solid suggests
15:59 garycmartin I can send Gonzalo a quick summary feedback, and point him to the logs here for more details?
16:00 silbe walterbender: can you do a quick summary to ensure we're all on the same line?
16:01 walterbender re record, I think we want to (1) put the timer on the submenus as opposed to the main menu
16:02 garycmartin +1
16:02 walterbender (2) use the Journal detail view explcitly instead of the menu
16:03 garycmartin +1
16:03 walterbender no change to the icons as of yet?
16:03 garycmartin TBD ;-)
16:03 (to be decided)
16:04 walterbender not UI exactly, but (3) write objects to Journal upon creation
16:05 garycmartin Yep +1, it can really look like a lock-up with out that change.
16:05 silbe re. the icons: personally I prefer the camera/microphone ones because they're more distinguished, but I'll leave the decision up to you two.
16:06 walterbender I am not sure there is anything else?
16:06 silbe (the eye icon is closely associated with the View menu, so anything too similar might confuse users)
16:06 +1 on all of the above - what do we do about the mode change stuff?
16:06 garycmartin silbe: Agreed, I wanted to mention it as it was prior completed work that is in sugar-artwork.
16:07 silbe garycmartin: ok, got it now :)
16:07 walterbender +1 (I just adopted the camera icon in Turtle Art)
16:08 garycmartin silbe: How about I try and mock-up a test activity for next week, and see how painful (or not) it is?
16:08 silbe I guess we should add them to sugar-artwork then?
16:08 garycmartin: sounds good
16:10 ok, let's wrap it up. I'm starting to get cold and would like to move indoors. ;)
16:10 garycmartin silbe: I think the lips/mouth can work for the michrophone replacement.
16:10 silbe: but the video icon needs work.
16:12 #action for testing, garycmartin to make sample activity that makes a full canvas UI change when activating a icon with a secondary toolbar.
16:12 silbe ok, so let's leave them out of sugar-artwork for now. Activities are easier to update.
16:12 garycmartin #action garycmartin to email Gonzalo with a quick summary feedback, pointing to the logs for detail.
16:13 Quick change of topic to get something on record...
16:14 #topic Using sugar-artwork for quick design reference
16:14 #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]Sugar-artwork.png
16:14 Ad to go with that png, I've uploaded the svg as well, just hover over an icon to see it's name.
16:14 #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]Sugar-artwork.svg
16:15 walterbender +1
16:15 garycmartin (note the wiki doesn't generate the svg preview correctly as it references external artwork.
16:16 Thanks to silbe for reminding me my clone was somewhat out of date ;-)
16:17 FWIW I'm also almost done with a static snapshot of the Sugar HIG.
16:17 silbe great!
16:17 garycmartin Might have it polished enough for next weeks meeting.
16:18 That should make it much more comfortable to start updating the wiki Sugar HIG to bring it up to date.
16:18 walterbender garycmartin: re the .png file, does it have an IMAP?
16:18 garycmartin: it would take me almost 0 time to finish the one I started
16:19 garycmartin walterbender: png, sorry, no. Is there some magic png trick, or is the IMAP a wiki thing?
16:19 walterbender garycmartin: what I started here: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/U[…]alter#Sugar_icons
16:20 garycmartin walterbender: ...finish the one I started... other than as the png get's updates your IMAP will drift out of sync.
16:20 walterbender garycmartin: I could link to the icons themselves in git...
16:20 garycmartin: We could write a script to generate it based on whatever script you are already using
16:21 garycmartin walterbender: I'll update the svg to link to the original in git via a click, I didn't quite get there for this revision.
16:21 walterbender OK... as long as SVG actually displays properly, that'll work
16:21 garycmartin walterbender: it was a 'copy and paste' job this time around ;-)
16:21 walterbender ouch
16:22 garycmartin walterbender: wasn't so bad, it's mainly great chunks of duplication.
16:23 OK, well if silbe is getting cold we should finish up for today. Same time next week?
16:23 walterbender sure
16:24 garycmartin Thanks walterbender: silbe: catch you next week!
16:24 #endmeeting
16:24 meeting Meeting ended Sun Mar 27 16:24:44 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
16:24 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-27T15:04:42.html
16:24 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]11-03-27T15:04:42
16:25 silbe thanks for the nice productive meeting!
16:26 garycmartin: BTW, have you seen the logs for last weeks second meeting? Anything you don't agree with or would like to add?
16:35 garycmartin silbe: yes I went through the second part of the meeting logs, all looked good +1 from me.
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