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| 12:57 | satellit_ | walterbender: I have been editing the sugar creation kit page take a look when you have a minute...: ) Trying to make it mor user friendly |
| 12:57 | s/more | |
| 13:25 | silbe has quit IRC | |
| 13:39 | walterbender | hi |
| 13:39 | satellit_: I'll take a look | |
| 14:06 | christianmarcsch <christianmarcsch!~christiancpe-24-193-242-220.nyc.res.rr.com> has joined #sugar-meeting |
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| 14:06 | christianmarcsch | hi everyone |
| 14:06 | walterbender | hi christianmarcsch |
| 14:07 | christianmarcsch: sorry I couldn't join the call oin Friday | |
| 14:07 | christianmarcsch | walterbender: hi! no worries. it was a good meeting, and thanks again for organizing the space. |
| 14:07 | walterbender | np |
| 14:07 | christianmarcsch | walterbender: i'm still working on a summary, that i hope to send out today. |
| 14:07 | silbe <silbe!~silbecl-425.cgn-01.de.sixxs.net> has joined #sugar-meeting |
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| 14:08 | christianmarcsch | hi silbe |
| 14:09 | silbe | christianmarcsch: hi! isn't the meeting scheduled for 15 UTC? |
| 14:09 | christianmarcsch | silbe: let me see... is that in one hour? |
| 14:09 | silbe | christianmarcsch: yup |
| 14:09 | christianmarcsch | silbe: ah i see. i can't make that time unfortunately today... |
| 14:10 | silbe | christianmarcsch: ok. what other time would suit you? |
| 14:10 | christianmarcsch | silbe: could we postpone to later in the afternoon? |
| 14:10 | silbe: around 2pm EST would be good | |
| 14:10 | walterbender | that is four hours from now :P |
| 14:10 | what about gary? | |
| 14:11 | silbe | ok, so 18UTC. would work fine for me. |
| 14:11 | christianmarcsch | i could send a note out to gary |
| 14:11 | i guess that would be 19:00 UTC...? | |
| 14:12 | slibe: 18:00 UTC, ok. where do you do the conversion btw? | |
| 14:12 | silbe | yeah, date says 14 EST is 19 UTC, so in about 4-5h |
| 14:12 | christianmarcsch | silbe: oh |
| 14:13 | silbe | christianmarcsch: date -d '14:00' -u |
| 14:13 | (for converting 14:00 local time to UTC) | |
| 14:13 | christianmarcsch | silbe: thanks, that's helpful |
| 14:14 | silbe | christianmarcsch: for converting random time zones you can use: date -d '20:00 CET' (to local time) resp. date -d '20:00 CET' -u (to UTC) |
| 14:15 | christianmarcsch | silbe: it doesn't seem to work on OSX terminal, but that's ok |
| 14:15 | silbe | I just always have problems figuring out the right time zone (because of DST), that's why I ask for UTC :) |
| 14:15 | christianmarcsch | silbe: i'll figure it out :) |
| 14:15 | silbe: yes, i know... | |
| 14:16 | silbe | christianmarcsch: maybe Mac OS X has GNU date installed as gdate, like they do with GNU make IIRC? |
| 14:16 | christianmarcsch | ok, i will send out a note and then hopefully see you back here at 19 UTC? |
| 14:16 | silbe | christianmarcsch: sounds good to me. let's hope gary can make it. |
| 14:16 | christianmarcsch | silbe: yes, i hope so |
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| 14:48 | garycmartin <garycmartin!~garycmart78.150.245.81> has joined #sugar-meeting |
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| 15:04 | garycmartin | Any one here for the design meeting? Christian emailed that he can't make 15:00UTC, but will make it for 19:00UTC, if that time is OK for others we can hold off until then. |
| 15:05 | Happy to cover some items now if someone can't make it later. | |
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| 17:15 | walterbender | hey gary. I suppose we are starting up again in ~45 minutes |
| 18:11 | christianmarcsch <christianmarcsch!~christiancpe-24-193-242-220.nyc.res.rr.com> has joined #sugar-meeting |
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| 18:11 | christianmarcsch | hi |
| 18:26 | silbe <silbe!~silbetwin.sascha.silbe.org> has joined #sugar-meeting |
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| 18:27 | christianmarcsch | hi silbe |
| 18:30 | silbe | christianmarcsch: hi! |
| 18:31 | christianmarcsch | silbe: i wasn't sure if this was still happening! |
| 18:31 | silbe | christianmarcsch: it is, but it's not 19 UTC yet :) |
| 18:31 | christianmarcsch | silbe: ??? |
| 18:31 | silbe: it's 2:30 EST | |
| 18:32 | silbe | that's very strange |
| 18:32 | christianmarcsch | silbe: indeed! |
| 18:32 | silbe | sascha.silbetwin:~$ date -d '14:30 EST' |
| 18:32 | Sun Mar 20 20:30:00 CET 2011 | |
| 18:32 | sascha.silbetwin:~$ date |
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| 18:32 | Sun Mar 20 19:32:21 CET 2011 | |
| 18:32 | christianmarcsch | silbe: hmm |
| 18:32 | silbe: it's ok though | |
| 18:32 | silbe: i'll be here | |
| 18:32 | silbe | christianmarcsch: maybe it's EDT, not EST? |
| 18:32 | sascha.silbetwin:~$ date -d '14:30 EDT' |
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| 18:32 | Sun Mar 20 19:30:00 CET 2011 | |
| 18:33 | christianmarcsch | silbe: ah yes, that makes sense |
| 18:33 | silbe | christianmarcsch: that's exactly the reason I always use UTC when agreeing on a time :) |
| 18:33 | christianmarcsch | silbe: good point |
| 18:33 | silbe: well no worries, i'll be online. we can wait for gary to join in | |
| 18:34 | silbe | christianmarcsch: good |
| 18:41 | garycmartin | christianmarcsch: silbe: walterbender: Aaaagh no one pinged my user name, I've been hanging on with the window in the background, are you all still here? If so we could start now rather than wait another 20 min for 19:00UTC? |
| 18:41 | christianmarcsch | garycmartin: hi |
| 18:41 | garycmartin: i too have been hanging out :) | |
| 18:41 | garycmartin | christianmarcsch: Hi! |
| 18:42 | silbe | garycmartin: Hi! Fine with me :) |
| 18:42 | christianmarcsch | garycmartin: i had the wrong time (EDT, not EST) apparently |
| 18:42 | garycmartin | christianmarcsch: we need to get you a world clock ;-) |
| 18:43 | Hi silbe. | |
| 18:43 | christianmarcsch | garycmartin: yes, i know. i'm having trouble with UTC :) |
| 18:43 | garycmartin | walterbender: ping, available to start? |
| 18:45 | walterbender has quit IRC | |
| 18:45 | silbe | christianmarcsch: try an XO with NTP enabled and a regular OLPC build. They're apparently all set to UTC. :) |
| 18:45 | christianmarcsch | silbe: nice |
| 18:49 | garycmartin | shall we give walterbender until 19:00UTC ? |
| 18:49 | silbe | garycmartin: +1 |
| 18:50 | especially since the first topic is about keybindings and he might remember the reason we have screenshot on Alt+1 :) | |
| 18:50 | garycmartin | OK (BTW I might need to leave early) |
| 18:52 | christianmarcsch | sounds good to me |
| 19:00 | garycmartin | blast, looks like we've lost Walter. |
| 19:01 | #startmeeting | |
| 19:01 | meeting | Meeting started Sun Mar 20 19:01:02 2011 UTC. The chair is garycmartin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 19:01 | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting | |
| 19:01 | christianmarcsch | apparently so |
| 19:01 | silbe | let's hope he joins us later |
| 19:01 | we could postpone the first one or two agenda items | |
| 19:01 | garycmartin | Yes, hopefully Walter will manage to catch us later. |
| 19:03 | #topic A standard tool icon for create-new/modify type Activity functionality | |
| 19:05 | I was hoping to get a few mockup variations before today, but the general gist is that to hook up with the Activity toolbar work that's happening it would be good to have a standard toolbar icon for customising activities. | |
| 19:05 | christianmarcsch | garycmartin: what sort of customizations? |
| 19:06 | garycmartin | Two examples are Memorize, and Abacus. |
| 19:07 | Where both activities support modification/customisation (new quiz tiles, new abacus number bases/layouts). | |
| 19:07 | christianmarcsch | garycmartin: makes sense. |
| 19:08 | garycmartin: perhaps a gear? :) | |
| 19:08 | garycmartin | For Abacus, Walter used the cog icon (same as we use for view source) |
| 19:08 | christianmarcsch | garycmartin: right |
| 19:09 | CanoeBerry has quit IRC | |
| 19:09 | garycmartin | Memorize currently has a create tab, no icon as of yet. |
| 19:09 | christianmarcsch | garymartin: sounds like we need to differentiate |
| 19:10 | garycmartin: i'd still say a gear/cog feels appropriate. we could find a different icon for view source, maybe something that resembles a terminal window | |
| 19:10 | garycmartin | christianmarcsch: yes it should be different from the view source cog, but the idea is similar (a 'low floor' version is needed) |
| 19:12 | christianmarcsch: I had also been experimenting with the existing edit menu (scissors icon), but I think folks feel there are too many con's regarding overloading what traditional computer users think of the edit menu features. | |
| 19:12 | #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/U[…]e_Toolbar_Mockups | |
| 19:14 | christianmarcsch | garycmartin: true, though i can see how you arrived there |
| 19:14 | garycmartin | Here's some category words to think on edit/modify/customize/create that we might want the icon to visualise. |
| 19:15 | christianmarcsch | so this would live in the activity tab? |
| 19:15 | how about the activity icon with a gear overlaid? | |
| 19:16 | garycmartin | christianmarcsch: yes, I quite like that idea, but it could get very fussy badging some activity icons. It might also be confusing if there is another very similar activity icon in the primary toolbar. |
| 19:17 | christianmarcsch | garycmartin: yeah, i see the point about the dual gear icons. though the badge we overlay could also be a different symbol... |
| 19:18 | garycmartin: in any case a badge actually seems appropriate, since it is a modifier to the existing activity | |
| 19:19 | garycmartin | christianmarcsch: true. |
| 19:19 | Anyone have any other thoughts on an icon? | |
| 19:21 | For create/new the activity icon with a star badge works quite well (a spark rather than a favourite like 5 point star) | |
| 19:22 | christianmarcsch | yes, i like that |
| 19:22 | silbe | garycmartin: nop, sorry. |
| 19:23 | christianmarcsch | preferences is tough |
| 19:23 | i thought of perhaps overlaying an XO badge | |
| 19:23 | to show that it is personalized | |
| 19:23 | garycmartin | Modify seems to usually be a pen/pencil overlaid on a document (I'm googling icon images) |
| 19:24 | Customize is usually the spanner or cog type icon | |
| 19:25 | christianmarcsch | garycmartin: so how about we change view source? |
| 19:26 | garycmartin: doesn't view source invoke the terminal anyway? then why not just use the terminal icon? | |
| 19:26 | garycmartin | christianmarcsch: A downside to using a badge over an activity icon is that it's tougher to reuse, ideally we want a single icon for sugar-artwork. |
| 19:27 | christianmarcsch | garycmartin: so terminal icon for view source, and the cog for customize |
| 19:27 | garycmartin | christianmarcsch: No view source opens a syntax aware source viewer. |
| 19:27 | christianmarcsch | garycmartin: does the source viewer have an activity icon? |
| 19:28 | garycmartin | christianmarcsch: I was hoping view source would also allow source editing (apparently the view is a standard bit of gtk that easily edits text, just that we need to think through the implications of enabling editing). |
| 19:29 | christianmarcsch | for view source, i could see a symbol that references a text file, a written document, rather than the cog |
| 19:30 | garycmartin | christianmarcsch: the view source has at least one activity icon, but also potentially a second in monochrome if it also supports viewing the activities content as source (think Browse viewing the html, Turtle Art viewing the LOGO source). |
| 19:32 | christianmarcsch: let me upload a view source screen shot for you, hang on... | |
| 19:35 | dfarning_afk is now known as dfarning | |
| 19:35 | walterbender <walterbender!~webchatjita.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting |
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| 19:37 | silbe | garycmartin: I'd prefer a way to open the source in a full-screen editor rather than editing it in the small View Source window. But maybe the way to go is making View Source full-screen instead of making the editor separate. |
| 19:37 | walterbender: Welcome! | |
| 19:38 | garycmartin | silbe: we lose that context again... You really don't like those modal like views do you ;-) |
| 19:38 | #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]browse_source.png | |
| 19:39 | silbe | walterbender: The log is at http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]ng/meetings/today . We've postponed the first two agenda items until you arrived. |
| 19:39 | garycmartin: not in general, and definitely not on a small screen like the XO. | |
| 19:39 | garycmartin | #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]stance_source.png |
| 19:40 | silbe | garycmartin: source code editing in full-screen is bad enough on the XO. If you make the window significantly smaller like we do for modal dialogs, it's a PITA. |
| 19:40 | garycmartin | #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]bundle_source.png |
| 19:40 | walterbender | checks the backlog and wonders why view source doesn't launch Pippy? |
| 19:40 | silbe | garycmartin: sorry for the sidetracking |
| 19:41 | garycmartin | Pippy!? Hmmm... |
| 19:42 | walterbender | or Edit... |
| 19:42 | some source is not Python | |
| 19:42 | christianmarcsch | walterbender: edit makes sense i think |
| 19:42 | if it launches edit, we could use that icon, and reserve the gear for customization | |
| 19:42 | silbe | walterbender: because those operate on Journal entries, but View Source operates on the installed activity (i.e. a directory tree) |
| 19:42 | walterbender | (we need to make Edit run in old-style Sugar... it only runs 0.86++) |
| 19:43 | garycmartin | Correction to above, coloured icon in view source holds 'instance source' (html, LOGO, etc), monochrome icon holds activity bundle source. |
| 19:43 | walterbender | silbe: well, maybe this would be the excuse to move the viewed source into the Journal |
| 19:43 | silbe: and make an editable application | |
| 19:44 | if we are going to bother to change it, we may as well try to further advance our goals... | |
| 19:46 | garycmartin | Oh my, how did we get off into such a tangent! ;-) we were just trying to decide on a standard icon for a couple or so of our activities. |
| 19:46 | silbe | walterbender: an activity (like Edit) could offer to open an activity bundle (i.e. MIME type application/vnd.olpc-sugar). To allow viewing / editing system-installed activities, we'd have to implement pseudo-bundles then, though. |
| 19:46 | shuts up now so we get back to the icon issue | |
| 19:46 | walterbender | tries not to derail the meeting he was late to... |
| 19:47 | garycmartin | apologises for the drop shadows in those screen shots, was still playing with compositing. |
| 19:47 | christianmarcsch | garymartin: yes, i noticed the shadow :) |
| 19:48 | i think view source could have a different symbol | |
| 19:49 | walterbender | christianmarcsch: one gotcha is the gear printed on the OLPC keyboards |
| 19:49 | christianmarcsch | my only concern is that the gear was printed on the XO keyboard (not sure if that's still the case) |
| 19:49 | walterbender: yes :) | |
| 19:49 | garycmartin | So, shall we punt this one into the long grass for another week to mull over? Perhaps if we use the cog just for now, and make sure we have a uniques name in sugar-artwork, so we can magically update it away from the view source icon later. |
| 19:49 | walterbender | christianmarcsch: it is still there... I just designed some new keyboards with them |
| 19:49 | christianmarcsch | the other thing that comes to mind is a form with checkboxes |
| 19:49 | walterbender | garycmartin: works for me... |
| 19:50 | garycmartin: to me, we are just talking about different levels of customization, so gears and more gears... maybe a gearbox? | |
| 19:50 | christianmarcsch | or maybe a wrench? |
| 19:50 | i worry that gears and wrenches could be too close | |
| 19:51 | walterbender | christianmarcsch: I could live with that too... |
| 19:51 | christianmarcsch | what about a pencil? |
| 19:51 | a pencil making a check-mark | |
| 19:51 | garycmartin | Let's punt and try to have some examples for next week. |
| 19:51 | walterbender | OK... |
| 19:51 | silbe | garycmartin: +1 |
| 19:51 | christianmarcsch | ok |
| 19:52 | garycmartin | #topic Get rid of Alt-1 for taking screenshots (collides with some applications, e.g. irssi) |
| 19:52 | walterbender | the other icons: make a new something... and camera vs sensor vs view.... |
| 19:52 | next week as well? | |
| 19:53 | garycmartin | go on... someone add it to the agenda. |
| 19:54 | walterbender | garycmartin: re Alt-1, we need something for grab screen... I always forget what the GNOME Take Snapshot uses |
| 19:54 | garycmartin | silbe: re Alt-1 I'd hate to drop a very useful shortcut I'm sure is documented all over the place. |
| 19:54 | silbe | ok, I'd like to get rid of Sugars Alt-1 key binding because it a) gets triggered if you press Cursor Up in Xephyr on a non-US keyboard (Xephyr bug) and, more importantly, b) at least irssi (but IIRC some other applications as well) uses it for regular operations. On my systems I always patch the source to get rid of it. |
| 19:55 | garycmartin | silbe: seems a shame just because it clashes with some obscure GNOME application, I should really look up what on earth irssi is, something to help stop wrist sprains? ;-) |
| 19:56 | silbe | garycmartin: it's a text-mode IRC client |
| 19:57 | hmm, do we have a PrintScreen key somewhere on the XO? That's the second key we bind to screenshot... | |
| 19:57 | walterbender | silbe: not on the XO |
| 19:57 | garycmartin | silbe: nope, no PrintScreen key on XO |
| 19:57 | silbe | ok, I guess that was the reason for this obscure binding |
| 19:57 | walterbender | silbe: but we do have the unassigned bulletin-board key |
| 19:58 | garycmartin | so, no one wants to suggest finally using the.... damn, walterbender types fast! |
| 19:58 | walterbender | (which I still would like to associate with writing to the Jouanrl detail view) |
| 19:58 | silbe | walterbender: I'd prefer to leave that for a function that's more related to a bulletin than print screen. Like overlay chat. :) |
| 19:59 | christianmarcsch | silbe: speaking of, whatever happened to overlay chat? |
| 19:59 | silbe | christianmarcsch: lack of developers working on it AFAIK |
| 19:59 | garycmartin | christianmarcsch: it needs compositing enables to stand a design chance... |
| 20:00 | christianmarcsch | garycmartin: i see. and compositing is still an issue from what i gather... |
| 20:00 | silbe | ok, so removing Alt-1 is a no-go in the short term, we need a replacement and a phase-out period. Let's move on to the next topic. |
| 20:00 | garycmartin | -1 for removing Alt-1 |
| 20:01 | Can I hand over to another chair, my hour is up :-( | |
| 20:01 | silbe | christianmarcsch, walterbender: do you have a bit of time left to discuss "What date should the activities list view show for pre-installed activities?"? |
| 20:02 | christianmarcsch | silbe: sure |
| 20:02 | walterbender | we should continue next week... 15UTC again??? (but I could talk a bit more about that topic) |
| 20:02 | garycmartin | Let me end meeting so one of you can start it again, also 15UTC next week is good for me. |
| 20:02 | #endmeeting | |
| 20:02 | meeting | Meeting ended Sun Mar 20 20:02:48 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4) |
| 20:02 | Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-20T19:01:02.html | |
| 20:02 | Log: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]11-03-20T19:01:02 | |
| 20:02 | walterbender | OK... thanks gary |
| 20:02 | christianmarcsch | thanks gary--see you next week |
| 20:03 | walterbender | #start-meeting |
| 20:03 | meeting | Meeting started Sun Mar 20 20:03:00 2011 UTC. The chair is walterbender. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 20:03 | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting | |
| 20:03 | silbe | garycmartin: thanks, see you next week! |
| 20:03 | garycmartin | Thanks all, sorry I have to dash, will look at the log! |
| 20:03 | garycmartin has quit IRC | |
| 20:03 | silbe | walterbender: can you set the topic, please? |
| 20:03 | walterbender | #info gary had to leave... but we will continue for one more topic |
| 20:04 | #topic What date should the activities list view show for pre-installed activities? | |
| 20:04 | silbe | #link http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/10487 OLPC#10487: Activity Installation time wrong (activity list view) |
| 20:04 | #link http://lists.laptop.org/piperm[…]thread.html#31544 Patch discussion: Do not adjust dates of activities | |
| 20:05 | walterbender | IMHO, the relevant date is the Activity modification date... it tells the user how recent a version they are running. |
| 20:05 | and if they modify the activity themselves, it highlights that fact too | |
| 20:06 | silbe | walterbender: but what is the "modification date" for activities that came with the OS image and were neither started nor modified yet? |
| 20:06 | christianmarcsch | walterbender: +1 |
| 20:06 | silbe: in that case, wouldn't we use the date of installation? | |
| 20:07 | silbe | christianmarcsch: that's exactly the question |
| 20:07 | christianmarcsch | sllbe: i think that would make sense. we'd seed them with the date of installation, and override once they have been instantiated |
| 20:07 | walterbender | silbe: is there no way to include the modification date in the build? |
| 20:09 | m_anish_afk is now known as m_anish | |
| 20:09 | silbe | The options I can think of are: 1. use date of last modification from source tarball, 2. use time of OS image build, 3. use time of first Sugar start-up, 4. use some artificial time in the past. Current OLPC implement the last option AFAIK. |
| 20:10 | s/AFAIK// (just checked again) | |
| 20:10 | walterbender | I prefer #1 |
| 20:12 | and it would be consistant | |
| 20:13 | christianmarcsch | wouldn't #2 make more sense for the user though? |
| 20:13 | maybe it's not totally consistent internally, but to the user the only thing that matters is when they started using the system | |
| 20:13 | walterbender | christianmarcsch: why? |
| 20:14 | christianmarcsch: I would think that they'd want to know the version of TA they were running was 2-years old on their new release.... | |
| 20:15 | christianmarcsch | walterbender: i suppose you are right |
| 20:15 | walterbender | so they could berate the developer to get off the stick... |
| 20:15 | christianmarcsch | walterbender: :) |
| 20:15 | but | |
| 20:16 | once someone starts using the activity, would it switch to the date of last instantiation? | |
| 20:16 | walterbender | christianmarcsch: shouldn't... |
| 20:16 | christianmarcsch | walterbender: ok, then it makes sense |
| 20:16 | walterbender | running an activity doesn't update the activity, just the journal instance |
| 20:17 | christianmarcsch | walterbender: perfect, ok. just needed to understand that. |
| 20:18 | walterbender | silbe: correct me if I am wrong, but we are talking about the date of the activities shown in the list view |
| 20:18 | silbe | walterbender: exactly. List View of the Home View. |
| 20:19 | walterbender | christianmarcsch: this is what determines the order in the circle/spiral or the list in the list view |
| 20:20 | christianmarcsch | walterbender: right, that makes sense |
| 20:20 | walterbender | thinks the list view should show most recent first, because those are the ones you'd likely be working on... |
| 20:21 | silbe: is there anything re #1 that is controversial (or a headache technically?) | |
| 20:22 | silbe | walterbender: not to me :) Check http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/10487 for other opinions |
| 20:22 | walterbender: the technical side of things is solvable | |
| 20:23 | walterbender | silbe: I didn't understand the issue with Gary's side-effect. |
| 20:23 | silbe | we just need to agree on how it _should_ work, and I'll take care of making Sugar _do_ work like it |
| 20:23 | walterbender | silbe: if the activity is touched, presumably it is for a reason |
| 20:24 | silbe | walterbender: I'll try to figure out where and maybe why it's touched. Off the top of my head I don't see a technical reason to do so. |
| 20:24 | walterbender | silbe: seems like there was *almost* consensus on #1 in the ticket (as I recall) |
| 20:25 | silbe: with a few people wanting some additional info available (which I think is needless complexity) | |
| 20:25 | silbe | walterbender: iff we want to provide additional information, we should handle that as a separate topic IMO |
| 20:26 | walterbender | silbe: agreed |
| 20:26 | silbe | (I too think it's too complex for the list view; at this point we can just refer users to the Terminal) |
| 20:26 | walterbender | silbe: re Gary's side effect, as an activity developer, I like it... the things I am working on show up at the start of my spiral. |
| 20:27 | silbe | walterbender: what exactly do you call "Gary's side effect"? That an activity gets sorted in front if you just use it, without modifying it? |
| 20:28 | walterbender: if you modify the activity, #1 would show it at the top (list view) / inner-most (spiral) | |
| 20:29 | walterbender | silbe: we need clarification, but he describes "when you use an activity the folder gets touched" but is this true? |
| 20:29 | silbe | tries |
| 20:30 | walterbender | has never seen that behavior |
| 20:30 | silbe | oh, I had the sort order reversed in my mind it seems: the list view currently shows the oldest activity first |
| 20:31 | walterbender | silbe: yes... which I think is the opposite of what we want... but the oldest is on the outside of the spiral, which I think is correct. |
| 20:32 | silbe | walterbender: confirmed, it does get touched. |
| 20:32 | walterbender | silbe: but running an activity has no impact on the order as far as I know |
| 20:32 | silbe ??? | |
| 20:32 | satellit_afk is now known as satellit_ | |
| 20:33 | walterbender | silbe: is that modification time or access time? |
| 20:33 | silbe | walterbender: it gets even stranger: in the list view, the just-run activity gets sorted somewhere in the middle (after a Sugar restart) |
| 20:34 | walterbender: ls uses mtime by default | |
| 20:34 | walterbender: (i.e. mtime gets changed) | |
| 20:34 | walterbender | silbe: hmm. I cannot say I ever noticed that before. It is a bug. |
| 20:35 | why does running an activity modify the directory? | |
| 20:35 | silbe | walterbender: I guess we should just agree on how it's supposed to behave and fix Sugar so it does behave the newly specified way. |
| 20:35 | The current behaviour definitely is a bug. I can't imagine any spec saying "sort a recently-run activity in the middle" ;) | |
| 20:35 | walterbender | silbe: it makes no sense for activities to be modified when they are run |
| 20:35 | silbe | walterbender: +1 |
| 20:35 | satellit_ | any ideas about Give priority to last installed activity by date installed and not version number? |
| 20:36 | silbe | satellit_: the activities list view doesn't look like it's sorted by version number |
| 20:37 | walterbender | satellit_: how do you have both at once? two instances of the same activity? Sugar doesn't support that, does it? |
| 20:37 | satellit_ | but browse-120 from updates precludes running browse-119.xo installed later |
| 20:37 | walterbender | satellit_: does it prevent running or installation? |
| 20:37 | silbe | we sort it by internal order of the bundle registry (I'm sure about that part, filed a bug about it some months ago). IIRC the internal order of the bundle registry is based on the activity mtime... |
| 20:38 | satellit_ | so an update may install a non-fuctioning non removable activity |
| 20:38 | silbe | satellit_: that's a separate issue. |
| 20:38 | satellit_ | prevents running .xo of earlier version |
| 20:38 | walterbender | satellit_: yeah... but that is a different topic, I think |
| 20:38 | satellit_ | ok |
| 20:38 | silbe | satellit_: we should talk about that some time as well, but not now. |
| 20:39 | walterbender | silbe: do we have consensus re modification time and that running an activity shouldn't modify the activity??? |
| 20:39 | silbe: any idea why the latter is happening? | |
| 20:39 | silbe | walterbender: +1 from me. christianmarcsch? |
| 20:39 | walterbender: not yet, but I'll figure it out. | |
| 20:39 | christianmarcsch | silbe: +1 |
| 20:39 | walterbender | looks to see what was touched in Pippy |
| 20:40 | silbe | ok, nice. Can we agree on it? Gary can still chime in via email and we can reconsider if necessary. |
| 20:40 | walterbender | silbe: ah.. it is the .pyc files of course |
| 20:41 | wonders if there is a way to ignore those. | |
| 20:42 | silbe | walterbender: ah, I see. There are ways to either avoid that or at least ignore it, though. |
| 20:42 | walterbender | silbe: I think we should ignore them... it is misleading |
| 20:42 | wonders how, without having to walk through the entire tree | |
| 20:43 | silbe | do we have consensus on how it should work? |
| 20:44 | walterbender | yes |
| 20:45 | silbe: I will update the ticket with a pointer to this discussion. | |
| 20:45 | silbe | walterbender: thanks. Can you add a #agree <description of consensus> so it turns up in the minutes, please? (#agreed is restricted to the chair) |
| 20:46 | s/#agree/#agreed/ | |
| 20:46 | walterbender | silbe: or not, because I cannot write to tickets at OLPC anymore :( |
| 20:46 | #agreed that modification date is the proper date to list and sort on | |
| 20:46 | silbe | walterbender: you should have received a token via email when you logged in. |
| 20:47 | christianmarcsch | walterbender, silbe: i will need to leave soon--were there any other issues you wanted to go over? |
| 20:47 | silbe | walterbender: they recently enabled email address verification to counter spam |
| 20:47 | walterbender | #agreed that we should fix the "bug" that considers .pyc file generation a modification to an activity |
| 20:47 | silbe: yes... and I never get the verification in my email... | |
| 20:47 | silbe | christianmarcsch: not for today. We already took much more time than I wanted. |
| 20:47 | walterbender: :-/ spam folder? | |
| 20:48 | walterbender | christianmarcsch, silbe: next week, same time... |
| 20:48 | looked there... will look again. | |
| 20:48 | christianmarcsch | sounds great. see you next week! |
| 20:48 | silbe | walterbender: thx! (for the #agreed's) |
| 20:48 | christianmarcsch has quit IRC | |
| 20:48 | silbe | thanks everybody for joining, see you next week! |
| 20:48 | walterbender | silbe: not in my spam folder :P |
| 20:48 | OK. CU | |
| 20:48 | #end-meeting | |
| 20:48 | meeting | Meeting ended Sun Mar 20 20:48:49 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4) |
| 20:48 | Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-20T20:03:00.html | |
| 20:48 | Log: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]11-03-20T20:03:00 | |
| 20:49 | walterbender | silbe: so, will you point to this log in the ticket? |
| 20:49 | silbe | walterbender: you could ask on #olpc-devel to get you confirmed manually. I don't remember who maintains dev.l.o... |
| 20:49 | walterbender: will do | |
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| 20:51 | silbe | walterbender: oh, how long since the token was sent? Graylisting might delay it for up to an hour :-/ |
| 20:51 | lucian has quit IRC | |
| 20:51 | lucian_ is now known as lucia | |
| 20:51 | lucia is now known as lucian | |
| 20:56 | silbe | walterbender: shall I add you to the CC list? If so, what's your user name? |
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| 21:12 | walterbender | silbe: walter in trac |
| 21:13 | silbe | walterbender: added. not sure if you'll get the notification before you get your account verified, though. |
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![http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]browse_source.png](http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/File:View_browse_source.png){kind=link}
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![http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]bundle_source.png](http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/File:Activity_bundle_source.png){kind=link}
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