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#sugar-meeting, 2011-03-19

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13:57 nubae cool, so meeting?
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14:02 icarito hello all
14:02 dirakx hello.
14:02 nubae hi
14:04 silbe hi everyone!
14:05 nubae apologizes for not having been around beginning of week or last Saturday... illness was very unpleasant... and is happy to be back to hear how things are proceeding
14:06 silbe nubae: I hope you're well again?
14:06 nubae yes... shaky stillyesterday, but feeling fresh like spinach today
14:07 unfortunately I see now othes are feeling bad
14:07 dirakx hates sickness.
14:08 nubae suggests to stay away from Fish
14:08 especially from small beachside restaurants
14:08 silbe nubae: last (not this) week was my turn at being sick ;)
14:08 nubae jeez, incredible... its like russian roulette
14:09 well, at least mathematically probability tells us that it is highly unlikely to happen again
14:09 dirakx it's been a sick season for AC then.
14:09 nubae right?
14:10 m_anish hi!
14:10 almost forgot there was a meeting on?
14:10 sorry for everyone who's been sick :/
14:11 nubae Its D Farnings turn this week I believe ;-/
14:11 alsroot_away is now known as alsroot
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14:12 silbe nubae: your mathematics hasn't been adapted to take epidemics into account :-P
14:12 alsroot_away has quit IRC
14:12 nubae yeah :-)
14:13 hmmm... can I begin with a quick story/coincidence that happened to me yesterday regarding paraguayeduca?
14:13 here in Spain
14:13 it was bizzare to say the least
14:13 but not really of any particular topic
14:14 silbe nubae: just tell us while we're waiting for the meeting to start :)
14:14 dirakx alsroot also afk for next weeks..?.
14:14 m_anish bernie had his eye zapped by a laser (on purpose) :-)
14:14 dirakx :(.
14:14 nubae cool, well, yesterday Iwas randomly chatting to some folks and overheard one of them was from Paraguay
14:15 A young guy who had been living there for 17 years and his Argentinian GF who also had been living there for a long time
14:16 We started speaking as you would about the educational project, they had of course heard of parguayeduca and olpc etc etc
14:16 The woman then told me she was highly into politicis
14:16 politics
14:16 and asked if there was anything we needed/wanted to ask for, etc
14:17 she invited me to dinner on Sunday with her husband to talk about this further
14:18 was quite surprising as u can imagine, but I figured, well why not... they were extremely eager to hear about what we are doing... and how they could help/get involved
14:18 whatcha all think?
14:19 she claimed to know "very important people" high up
14:19 whatever that means
14:19 icarito nubae, one never knows
14:19 its like fishing
14:19 :-)
14:19 nubae right... so just go for the dinner, charm them  a bit
14:20 then what? ask for donations, or where we can get donations?
14:20 intros to people?
14:20 silbe nubae: "the woman" = some bystander? Or the argentinian gf?
14:20 nubae see I dont know ANYONE in PY
14:20 the gf, who seemed to be the politician
14:20 she spoke the talk u know
14:21 silbe nubae: so the husband = the young guy?
14:21 nubae yup
14:21 young... mid 30s
14:21 silbe oh, ok, young is relative it seems ;)
14:21 nubae it is
14:22 relative to me :p
14:22 but they were genuinely interested, we spoke for at least 2 hours about the project
14:22 silbe definitely sounds interesting. Maybe dfarning_afk has some advice on how to best proceed (at dinner).
14:22 nubae and paraguay in general
14:23 she kept making it a point that she knew important people to make things go faster
14:24 also stating that PY was incredibly corrupt
14:24 icarito nubae, that is true of most if not all of LA
14:24 nubae yah i figured
14:24 silbe hmm, that sounds a bit like she tried to be impressive. But as icarito said, you never know...
14:24 icarito i try to think in terms of what we want to accomplish
14:25 nubae she said it was the 3rdf most orrupt in LA
14:25 icarito nubae, what would you like to do in PY?
14:25 nubae is that true?
14:25 icarito nubae, i did not know we had a competition
14:25 maybe politicians keep scores
14:25 hard to measure unless you know how much $ goes under the table
14:25 nubae yo que se... como me lo dijo....
14:26 icarito besides if a politician sells for less $ he's more corrupt or less?
14:26 jaja
14:26 silbe meeting: pingall roll call - who's there for the AC meeting?
14:26 meeting roll call - who's there for the AC meeting?
14:26 [scs]_ aa bernie CanoeBerry ChanServ cjb ClaudiaU dfarning_afk dirakx icarito m_anish manusheel_afk marcopg mchua_afk meeting mk8 mtd nubae pbrobinson satellit_ scorche silbe SMParrish valhalla yama
14:26 roll call - who's there for the AC meeting?
14:26 m_anish silbe, is it happening???
14:26 icarito i'm here
14:26 dirakx +1.
14:26 nubae +2
14:27 icarito meeting, +1
14:27 meeting icarito: Error: "+1" is not a valid command.
14:27 m_anish haha
14:27 icarito roll call nice that's new for me
14:27 silbe just the few of us? ok, what topics would you like to discuss?
14:28 icarito i'd like to understand more about the purpuse of this meeting
14:28 is it supposed to be technical?
14:28 nubae well just to quickly fnish that previous thingy
14:28 any ideas on what I should bring up?
14:28 icarito nubae, maybe its a topic
14:29 nubae si quereis
14:29 silbe icarito: the purpose is to get us all to know what's going on in AC, what others have been working / will be working on, etc.
14:29 dirakx nubae: as always it would be nice to have a solid understanding about what they want to acomplish and how AC would fit in those plans.
14:30 nubae maybe I make a first meeting and then get back
14:30 m_anish silbe, (i'd like to discuss a bit about the scheduling of s/w fixes we're gonna be releasing for py)
14:30 nubae introduce AC, ask what political contacts they have
14:30 and take from there
14:30 silbe icarito: so usually is focussed on technical things, but we try to handle in-detail discussion outside of the meeting (with just the few people that are actually interested in the topic at hand)
14:30 icarito nubae, yes maybe establish trust and try to find out ways we can work together with them
14:30 nubae ok
14:30 dirakx nubae: yep and i guess keep team informed.
14:31 nubae of course
14:31 from what I gathered they really really wanted to be involved
14:31 but who knows how
14:31 icarito AC doesnt do deployments, do we?
14:31 nubae anyway, enough about that
14:32 icarito we just focus on providing tech for deployments
14:32 nubae we organise a part of them no?
14:32 icarito yes
14:32 silbe nubae: FWIW, sounds good to me. Introduce ourselves (OLPC, AC), get a feeling for where their interests are and what they might offer.
14:32 icarito its interesting if we're building a puzzle
14:32 ourselves = ourselves + sugarlabs
14:32 :-)
14:33 silbe icarito: AC doesn't, but we can establish contacts with OLPC, SL and probably PyEduca, too.
14:33 nubae yah nice
14:34 icarito silbe, yes local labs often have an interest in deployments but I dont know in PY
14:34 silbe any topic besides DX2 bug fix release schedule and DX3 roadmap?
14:34 icarito dirakx, maybe we should talk a bit about activity plans?
14:34 dirakx icarito: yes.
14:34 icarito get feedback from the team regarding our activity strategy?
14:34 dirakx icarito: take the word please.
14:34 nubae or even more general than that
14:34 m_anish dirakx, icarito, +1
14:35 icarito cool so silbe you want to go first with dx2 + dx3 topics?
14:35 silbe #startmeeting
14:35 meeting Meeting started Sat Mar 19 14:35:58 2011 UTC. The chair is silbe. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:35 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
14:36 silbe #topic agenda
14:36 #info 1. Dextrose 2 bug fix release schedule
14:36 #info 2. Activity plans
14:36 #info 3. Dextrose 3 roadmap
14:36 #topic Dextrose 2 bug fix release schedule
14:37 m_anish: you have the stage :)
14:37 m_anish Ok, maybe i'll put it up on the roadmap page re: dx2... but I had a chat with pacita about the schedule for releasing updates...
14:37 we'd be releasing updated rpms on 1st April, 15th April, 1st May (and the first of every month from then on)
14:38 for 1st april, we'd be doing in-house testing like we have been till now, but starting from the 15th april release...
14:39 there would be a ~8 member team consisting of formadores, teachers and kids, who'd be given the updates a week before we release them to the world... and they'd test it for a week
14:40 we already have  dextrose-py-local and dextrose-py-local-testing repos setup with the latter being disabed for everyone
14:40 but we'll enable it for those select few team members...
14:40 icarito m_anish, how big is "world" in py? just would like to know
14:40 m_anish also since we'll have a predictable schedule, we can target what bugfixes to include in a particular update release and inform the testing-team of specific things to test before hand...
14:41 icarito, there are ~3700 laptops currently, with another 5000 arriving
14:41 they plan to start mass flashing starting monday and would probably take 3 weeks
14:41 nubae server wise, the schedule is not dated at all, I need help from Bernie for that
14:42 the road map I mean
14:42 m_anish ...continuing, for the 15th april release, we should release updates by 7th and probably inform them of what's getting fixed about 2-3 days before that
14:42 nubae, yep, i'm just talking about the dextrose-2 build that will be flashed on the laptops
14:43 does this all make sense? thoughts?
14:43 dirakx we should all be in sync with m_anish schedule.
14:43 nubae yah yah
14:43 dirakx m_anish: sounds good.
14:44 silbe m_anish: makes sense to me at any rate
14:44 icarito m_anish, i did not understand what is happening on the7th
14:45 you'll release updates on the 1st of every month starting may
14:45 in april twice
14:45 m_anish icarito, we'll push updated rpm's to the testing repo on 7th so that our testing-task force in py has a week to play with it
14:45 icarito, yep
14:45 icarito ok now i understand
14:46 dirakx, we should be prepared to release our modified activities in those dates
14:47 dirakx icarito: sure.
14:47 icarito m_anish, how can we make it easy for you to integrate updated activities, do you need us to release into ASLO every time?
14:47 m_anish icarito, nope, the updates are platform related ones...
14:47 icarito, we don't have automatic updating for activities
14:47 icarito interesting
14:47 m_anish icarito, if some activity blows up pretty seriously, we'd have to consider that, these are automatic platform updates...
14:47 silbe m_anish: I thought we have the shiny new microformat based activities updater?
14:48 m_anish silbe, we have, but it doesn't run 'automatically'
14:48 icarito does this auto updater fetch from ASLO?
14:48 m_anish FWIW, i don't expect major problem fixes or UI changes in these updates
14:48 icarito or where?
14:49 m_anish icarito, nope, we moved that to pyedu servers
14:49 nubae but originally
14:49 ?
14:49 m_anish http://activities.paraguayeduca.org/
14:49 nubae, originally it was from activities-testing.sl.o
14:49 nubae so that is a forwarder?
14:49 a mirror?
14:50 icarito 's internet connection hurts
14:50 m_anish nubae, nope, this isn't a mirror, this is a hard-coded path with fixed activity bundles linked to it
14:50 nubae the original file is uploaded to one location right?
14:50 m_anish nubae, icarito , we don't intend to change this page very often and atleast not via some online ASLO like tool
14:51 nubae, the activities will be uploaded to ASLO as always, we'd steal bundles from there as we see fit :)
14:51 icarito m_anish, maybe we could figure out a way to push updated activities at least with your ~8 ppl testing team
14:51 nubae fine gotcha
14:51 m_anish icarito, good idea!
14:51 dirakx m_anish: :).
14:52 nubae one thing that might be useful is telling ASLO NOT to automatically refuse caching agents
14:52 it really kills their server
14:52 m_anish #action figure out a way to push updated activities at least with our ~8 ppl testing team
14:52 silbe, is that how its supposed to be ^ :)
14:53 nubae there is a neat little tool that tells u how available content is from pages that owuld like to syndicte soem content
14:53 ASLo was voted really really restrictite
14:53 silbe m_anish: I think so. :)
14:53 dirakx m_anish: we could set up an http://activities-testing.paraguayeduca.org/ ?.
14:54 m_anish dirakx, yep, its an action item already :)
14:54 dirakx m_anish: great.
14:56 icarito nubae, aslo was voted? on a tool? i feel like i missed something
14:56 silbe nubae: yeah, quite a lot of our services just turn off all caching unconditionally. Most "web developers" are too lazy to figure out how to achieve consistency while still allowing a proxy to cache most stuff. Fixing them would be more work than we can handle at Sugar Labs. :-/
14:57 upstreams answer to this problem usually is to throw more hardware and/or server-side caching at it
14:58 (upstream = Mozilla, Trac, etc.)
14:58 ok, so are we done with the DX2 schedule?
14:58 m_anish silbe, yep, think so :)
14:58 silbe #topic Activity plans
14:59 icarito, dirakx: what exactly would you like to discuss?
14:59 icarito ok so i'd like to share with the team what we've been doing so far and also get some ideas from you no how to integrate better with the rest of AC workflow
15:00 as you know I started a couple of weeks ago, we are a new team, rafael started a bit earlier
15:00 what i've done so far is update the toolbars on several activities
15:01 help, typing turtle, words, maze, stopwatch, get books
15:01 we still have to push new bundles to ASLO but this involves pinging mantainers so could be a bottle neck as some are a bit orphaned
15:02 I also have been working in some plans for streaming content with gstreamer probably from a forked record activity for a documentary project in Peru
15:02 nubae silbe,  right, buts its pretty heavy on the server
15:02 icarito http://openetherpad.org/requer[…]neokinok-escuelab
15:02 nubae but nevertheless if it cant be done any other way, fine
15:03 just a shame to be fighint caching policy
15:03 icarito dirakx, this is what i've been doing, maybe you can share your part
15:04 and then we can discuss on ways we can make this better integrated with the rest of our plans
15:04 dirakx icarito: no special updates form my behalf. ;), the usual.
15:04 icarito dirakx, what is the usual, sorry, this is my first meeting
15:05 dirakx icarito: bug fixing, packaging and pootle admin.
15:06 among the dev stuff you metioned like toolbars and so on.
15:06 icarito: but mostly focused on developing specific requirements for activities.
15:07 icarito: that's the next part, you will be working on..after toolbars ;).
15:08 icarito ok then team, we'll share more as we go along then
15:08 silbe ok, sounds like you're humming along fine, except for getting blocked on releasing updated activities due to MIA maintainers?
15:08 dirakx silbe: +1.
15:09 icarito i'd like to have a plan for quality asurance of activities, this involves testing and deploying
15:09 but this is more long term
15:10 if the rest of team have ideas on the subject we can work over email
15:10 dirakx silbe: this is a problem, that we can fix in one way...having a super admin account on gitorious, like code-maint or so this user should have push rights to all activities. (but this proposal must be upstreamed ;))
15:10 silbe dirakx: can you make a list of activities you're currently blocked on, along with any maintainer information you have (from a.sl.o, wiki.l.o, wiki.sl.o, git)? I'll try to reach out to the maintainers then, like I already did with a few activities some weeks ago.
15:11 dirakx silbe: I preffer we follow the proposal i just mentioned..but dunno what you guys think ?.
15:11 silbe dirakx: the problem isn't a technical one (alsroot, bernie and I can easily hijack any repository on git.sl.o), but a social one (not offending the current maintainer who might not have done much work lately, but is still interested in the activity).
15:11 dirakx silbe: hmm ok.
15:11 nubae well obviouly quality assurance, but more importantly following policy
15:12 is really really KEY
15:12 dirakx silbe: I'll work on the list then..
15:12 nubae right now we dont have a policy reallly formalised
15:12 silbe dirakx: thanks!
15:12 nubae if we did, it would make life 100 times easier
15:12 dirakx silbe: i guess we can work together in pinging devs.
15:12 icarito nubae, +100 on policy
15:13 dirakx nubae: icarito we have a draft policy in wiki..editors policy for admins.
15:13 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/A[…]ry/Editors/Policy
15:13 nubae not just tech, but marketing, logo usage, dress code, etc etc
15:13 dirakx we should complement it/improve it.
15:13 silbe FWIW, this topic has come up before (IIRC when wadeb was MIA); check out the sugar-devel archives.
15:14 nubae sounds almost schoool/uni like
15:14 but there is a reason they make u do that
15:14 silbe nubae: -1 for dress code :-P
15:14 icarito ok so then that's it from my side on activities team
15:14 dirakx with alsroot we think that this policy must be as transparent as possible and also low bar.
15:14 nubae hehehe
15:15 it was just an example
15:15 icarito dirakx, you're the man, you have the mic
15:15 :-)
15:15 m_anish this all makes sense :-)
15:15 nubae but its something that needs to be discussed overall with many folks
15:15 and then set in stone
15:15 think about lit like the decl. of independence
15:15 icarito nubae, policy might depend on deployments also, like m_anish is doing with activities.pyeduca
15:16 nubae, +1
15:16 dirakx icarito: no more to declare from my side. besides the Colombia-peru work we have been doing.
15:16 nubae sure thing...but first, we need our OWN policy
15:16 before started creating others
15:16 icarito hopes/wishes we had an apt-get like tool for activities
15:16 dirakx nubae: agree..at least an example..then deployments can make their own policies.
15:17 silbe icarito: check out alsroot's 0install work
15:17 still hasn't tried it - shame on him!
15:17 icarito i mean we could point say to AC's repo of activities
15:17 silbe, on my connection speed I need to throttle the amount of new stuff I try :-)
15:18 silbe, also I tried to get sweets to build but couldnt figure it out
15:18 silbe, atm i'm struggling with python-xpcom
15:18 dirakx, reg'd peru-colombia work, do you want to share something?
15:18 silbe icarito: there are several ways of doing that. A custom collection on a.sl.o, rpm packages for activities (like Fedora does), a microformat wiki page (like OLPC does), ...
15:19 icarito i'll say only we've begun approacing the Local Labs in Peru and Colombia to offer AC's services in tandem/conjunctino with SL Local Labs there
15:19 silbe, yes, too many ways
15:19 dirakx icarito: we can follow that by email @team we something happens.
15:19 when*
15:20 icarito dirakx, yes only since you mentioned it
15:20 dirakx icarito:  but yes! that's the resume of it.
15:20 silbe icarito: if we need to push out activity updates without waiting for the maintainers to merge our patches and release a new version, we can easily set that up. The "policy" we worked out the last time was: "Fork if you need".
15:21 icarito Sugar Co already had a meeting and the board agreed it was a good idea to offer AC's services
15:21 silbe icarito: interesting. I'm curious what will get out of it.
15:21 icarito and Escuelab in Lima too
15:22 dirakx hope it goes all well.
15:22 silbe crosses fingers
15:22 ok, anything else on activities?
15:22 dirakx silbe: :)
15:23 no more ;).
15:23 icarito puts the mic down and greets all around
15:24 silbe icarito: a warm "welcome to the team" from all of us, again. :)
15:24 m_anish claps :-)
15:24 silbe #topic DX3 roadmap
15:24 icarito silbe, thank you, m_anish  :-D
15:25 m_anish FWIW, an informal meeting happened yesterday with bernie, tch, dfarning http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]eeting/2011-03-18
15:25 tch <tch!~tch@190.52.131.169> has joined #sugar-meeting
15:25 silbe I've been working on DX3 builds this week. It takes me a lot of time, but we've even managed to get quite a few of our patches merged upstream (OLPC).
15:26 tch hello everyone, got stuck at some family issue
15:26 dirakx m_anish: thanks I was lurking and reading IRC at that time.
15:26 tch: hi!
15:26 silbe The first test image based on the new code base (we rebased on OLPC master) should be ready within the next few days.
15:26 tch current topic?
15:27 m_anish tch, dx3 roadmap (hope everything's fine)
15:27 silbe tch: "DX3 roadmap". I just started.
15:27 tch silbe: great :)
15:27 m_anish: yeah, not big issue i just couldn't leave
15:27 silbe #link http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]eeting/2011-03-18 informal meeting between bernie, dfarning, m_anish, tch
15:28 tch: hi, BTW :)
15:28 m_anish silbe, ah! meetbot should be smart enough to parse other links of meeting logs posted :-)
15:30 silbe that's quite a bit to read. I'd say we wrap up the official meeting and once I've read up on yesterdays meeting, we can continue discussing DX3 roadmap with everyone interested.
15:31 m_anish silbe, +1
15:31 silbe anything else someone would like to discuss?
15:32 dirakx something bad to share..SL was not accepted on GSOC :(.
15:32 but this is OT.
15:32 silbe dirakx: I noticed. :-/ Any idea why?
15:32 dirakx silbe: google doesn't says much about its disitions.
15:33 it seemed natural to get accepted..being successfull and all in the years we participated...but no luck this year.
15:33 silbe dirakx: IIRC they offered to explain on IRC. Guess we should accept that offer.
15:34 dirakx silbe: yep..I'll be on that meeting #gsoc
15:34 silbe dirakx: FWIW, another education related project (Tux4Kids) got rejected as well. Maybe they're setting a different focus this year.
15:34 dirakx: great, please keep up posted.
15:34 I guess that's it for the meeting?
15:35 dirakx silbe: i think this year is more focused to new orgs and investigation.
15:35 silbe 3
15:35 tch too bad,
15:35 silbe 2
15:35 1
15:35 #endmeeting
15:35 meeting Meeting ended Sat Mar 19 15:35:52 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
15:35 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-19T14:35:58.html
15:35 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]11-03-19T14:35:58
15:35 tch silbe: are you going to Uruguay for EduJam?
15:36 m_anish tch, deme, all that fixing/DO crap got permanently logged in yesterday's meeting :-)
15:36 silbe tch: nop, I've been told AC will only send those currently located in Paraguay, and I can't afford to pay myself.
15:37 tch ;/
15:37 dirakx :(
15:37 tch dirakx: y tu?
15:38 dirakx tch: tampoco..muy costoso para mi presupuesto actual.
15:38 silbe tch: you'll have to relay everything interesting via IRC then :)
15:38 dirakx +1
15:39 tch i could use a 3g modem and get a virtual-silbe over skype :P
15:39 dirakx heh.
15:40 have to go guys..thanks. silbe thanks for chairing.
15:40 silbe hopes he'll have internet - moving takes place during the two weeks before the summit
15:40 dirakx: have fun!
15:40 tch dirakx: cuidate!
15:40 dirakx dirakx_afk.
15:40 silbe tch: fat chance of getting me via Skype :-P
15:40 tch silbe: oh, moving where?
15:41 satellit_ is now known as satellit_afk
15:41 silbe tch: but if internet is available early enough, we could try SIP. I'll finally be rid of double-NAT!
15:42 tch silbe:  :)
15:42 silbe tch: from dormitories to a "regular" (i.e. non-subsidised) flat
15:43 tch silbe: oh, i can't imagine my university giving me a room... they would probably charge just for asking one
15:43 silbe or maybe that new P2P telephony stuff GNU seems to be working on...
15:44 tch any working implementation?
15:45 http://www.gnutelephony.org/in[…]php/GNU_Telephony ?
15:45 silbe tch: we have to pay for the current flat (dormitories) as well, but it's quite a bit cheaper than is usual around here. They still make a profit, of course - most land lords just make even more of a profit. :-/
15:46 tch: sipwitch (http://www.gnu.org/software/sipwitch/) was mentioned, but I haven't taken any in-detail look yet.
15:47 m_anish needs to run
15:47 silbe m_anish: cu
15:47 ah, here it is: http://planet.gnu.org/gnutelephony/?p=14
15:47 "GNU Free Call"
15:48 maybe we can get Mr. Sugar to work on an activity for the client side? ;)
16:05 m_anish is now known as m_anish_afk
16:05 m_anish_afk is now known as m_anish
16:05 m_anish silbe, chau!
16:32 silbe m_anish, tch: Sugar in DX3 is a custom patch set on top of Sugar 0.92. See http://people.sugarlabs.org/~s[…]xtrose/patchsets/ for the patches. I manage the patches locally using git, export the entire set to a tarball and let rpm apply the entire set during building.
16:32 m_anish, tch: the patch set is based on DX2 as of several weeks ago. I'll need to catch up once we got the build working well enough and Sugar 0.92.1 out of the door.
16:38 m_anish, tch: Sugar 0.92 is (like 0.90) complete crap w.r.t. Collaboration. I'm working on the non-Telepathy bugs to leave Simon free to focus on the Collab ones.
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