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#sugar-meeting, 2011-03-15

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12:20 satellit-gn3 walterbender: hi
12:20 running gnome3 here with sugar 0.92.0 as test
12:21 walterbender gnome3! I imagine a problem or two?
12:21 satellit-gn3 yes but better with  many updates...main problem is browse does not start.
12:22 satellit_ http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/C[…]ome3_with_sugar_0.92.0 details here
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15:52 walterbender hey sean
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15:52 dogi is here
15:52 hi walterbender
15:52 jtmengel is here.
15:53 walterbender hi dogi
15:53 JT4sugar <JT4sugar!JT@d192-24-250-129.try.wideopenwest.com> has joined #sugar-meeting
15:53 satellit_ is here
15:54 dogi :)
15:54 hi satellit_
15:55 JT4sugar Hi Dogi-satellit
15:55 dogi hi JT4sugar
15:56 walterbender waiting for Christian...
15:56 satellit_ SeanDaly: I just sent to marketing list an outline to look at
15:57 SeanDaly satellit_: hi yes I saw that thanks ;-)
15:57 hi walterbender, dogi, JT4sugar
15:58 hi jtmengel
15:58 dogi hi SeanDaly
15:59 satellit-gn3 watching from f15 gnome3
16:00 jtmengel hi SeanDaly
16:00 ganderson <ganderson!~ganderson@province-wireless-173-84-27-85​.dr02.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> has joined #sugar-meeting
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16:02 christianmarcsch <christianmarcsch!~christian@131.107.204.126> has joined #sugar-meeting
16:02 dogi hi RITSteve
16:02 christianmarcsch good morning!
16:02 dogi hi christianmarcsch
16:02 RITSteve hey folks!
16:02 christianmarcsch hi RITSteve
16:02 marcmertens <marcmertens!~webchat@jita.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting
16:02 RITSteve I'm gonna get pulled outta this early on but will return
16:02 christianmarcsch hi marcmertens
16:02 SeanDaly hi christianmarcsch,RITSteve
16:03 christianmarcsch looks like we may have everyone?
16:03 JT4sugar jtmengel, Is Mike on with us yet?
16:03 SeanDaly yes christianmarcsch would you like to start meetbot?
16:03 christianmarcsch yes
16:04 #startmeeting
16:04 meeting Meeting started Tue Mar 15 16:04:05 2011 UTC. The chair is christianmarcsch. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:04 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
16:04 jtmengel JT4sugar, mike just sat back down
16:04 and he's logging in now
16:04 christianmarcsch thanks everyone for joining
16:04 i assume you saw the agenda i sent last night
16:04 did anyone have any changes to the agenda?
16:05 if not, let's start with the discussion of top objectives!
16:05 JT4sugar Good by me
16:05 christianmarcsch so, just to start where we left off during the skype call
16:05 i had mentioned three areas of focus:
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16:05 christianmarcsch (1) the educational proposition
16:06 (2) clear instructions for downloading and installing the software
16:06 dogi christianmarcsch, wanted to add a point ...
16:06 christianmarcsch (3) focus on the community (mainly teachers, but potentially also children)
16:06 dogi: sure
16:06 dogi if we have time on the end maybe
16:06 christianmarcsch dogi: go ahead
16:07 SeanDaly remember, Marketlab study is gold mine for recommendations
16:07 dogi (last) sugar over VNC and how to add this to our webpage
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16:08 christianmarcsch dogi: yes, great point. i think that falls into area (2) that i just listed
16:08 dogi ok
16:08 christianmarcsch how does everyone think about the list? what additional areas should we be thinking about? is the order correct?
16:09 we want to try to get at the main objectives that the new website should be designed to fulfill
16:09 SeanDaly i think we need to add: how to treat problem of disjointed domains (fragmented site)
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16:09 RITSteve We tried to take a swipe at the main objectives with the strawman we put up
16:10 SeanDaly remember Christian we had worked together on a standard toolbar for all SL "sites"
16:10 christianmarcsch SeanDaly: yes, a great area to focus on. we had concepts around a unified navbar that never quite materialized
16:10 RITSteve: could you summarize for the group please?
16:10 SeanDaly yes navbar
16:10 jtmengel SeanDaly, yeah, seconded
16:10 JT4sugar christianmarcsch, Fundrasing-Pushing that we are education Non-profit for driving initiatives forward probably falls into #1
16:10 SeanDaly greets CanoeBerry
16:11 RITSteve We put up a google doc that was kind of a who, why, how approach as a splash page
16:11 jtmengel document link: https://docs.google.com/docume[…]GBzRqrGWsOP5VgBEg
16:11 christianmarcsch JT4sugar: that is a great point as well. i would actually separate that out--it could become it's own area of the site
16:12 marcmertens this may fall under (1), but as an outsider to your group - it was not easy to grasp that there is a larger vision behind sugar than powering olpcs.
16:12 SeanDaly a related point to JTSugar's : fundraising callout can help us fight perception that we are a for-profit startup
16:12 RITSteve So the idea was to  show the concept in images across all platforms, provide a quick paragraph or two on each meta topic (Who?, etc) and then point folks to links to give the the details or direct them to specificaly hat they needed
16:13 what, not hat :-)
16:13 christianmarcsch marcmertens: yes, that seems to go under (1) -- the educational vision. could also include mention of the olpc project and where sugar originated
16:14 RITSteve: i like the What/Why/How breakdown--that will really help us organize the information on the site
16:14 RITSteve: seems to me like a "meta" principle of sorts
16:14 JT4sugar RITSteve, I agree brings level of clarity that we need
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16:15 christianmarcsch SeanDaly: yes, that is an important point to make clear
16:15 jtmengel yea the goal was to have a hub of common topics to make it accessible - I think this plays into objective (1) well
16:15 mikedevine and that takes care of how to break down the info depending on who views it- what/why/how is pretty universal, whether you're a teacher or a student
16:15 RITSteve THis was created as a concept for either the "mini" site ofr the top level of the new Sugar site, whichever made sense
16:15 christianmarcsch jtmengel: can you elaborate on hub of common topics?
16:16 mikedevine: definitely agree with you on that
16:16 mikedevine: we need a way to structure the information based on the questions people would have coming to the site
16:16 satellit-gn3 i sent an possible outline to marketing lists today also
16:16 SeanDaly for reference, Marketlab study wiki link is: https://sites.google.com/site/marketlabsugar/
16:17 mikedevine well the forums would help a lot with that- we can have relevant pages, but i think a lot of the content might be well-served as links to a better-structured wiki and/or forum topics
16:17 because that avoids redundancy
16:17 christianmarcsch RITSteve: when you say show the concept in images, what do you mean?
16:17 mikedevine which is pretty prevalent on the current site
16:17 jtmengel I see the splash page as a 'hub' in so far as it's a place where everything Sugar meets up, with links to the various parts of the site
16:18 mikedevine i.e., when i was compiling the list of content for our design, i noticed a lot of overlap between content on the site and content on the wiki
16:18 so integrating those two more tightly- plus the forums where applicable- would be a must
16:18 and it actually makes everyone's jobs easier too
16:18 JT4sugar christianmarcsch, Do we add a "Who" portion to point out the community already in place?
16:18 christianmarcsch mikedevine: yes, a must. this related to SeanDaly's point about unifying all domains at the hub level
16:18 SeanDaly jtmengel: as corollary to "hub", visitors need to be able to climb out of subdomains once they arrive there
16:19 mikedevine i think "who" would fall under the "what"
16:19 the "what" includes community, so that can go there theoretically
16:19 JT4sugar mikedevine, Makes sense
16:19 mikedevine and of course other pages could reference that where needed
16:19 walterbender as a side project, we could add a bit more structure to the wiki's user-facing pages, e.g., the Activities/ pages.
16:20 christianmarcsch SeanDaly: yes, we need  a way to also get people to come back to the hub page from subdomains
16:20 jtmengel christianmarcsch, RITSteve ran out of the room momentarily but if I would, I'd say that by 'concept in images' he means to join visual cues / multimedia with topics
16:20 mikedevine so a user could bounce around between "what", "who" and "how" at the sub-hub level, without realizing how much they're jumping around
16:20 walterbender if someone designed a template, we could adopt it as the top page for all of the activities
16:20 and not worry about that on the main (static) site
16:20 mikedevine i think all good sites are able to do that, to let the user carve out a path for themselves in their site, but without getting lost in the process
16:20 christianmarcsch jtmengel: thanks, that makes sense. i'll record that as another "meta" principle--to provide more visual cues rather than the current text-heavy experience
16:21 mikedevine i think every page is up for modification
16:21 if we decide to change it, great, but if it's good, thats great too
16:21 SeanDaly walterbender: an historical concern of mine is that we have more than one search engine and each one doesn't indicate that it is partial
16:21 mikedevine but every page should be put under the magnifying glass
16:21 christianmarcsch mikedevine: agree
16:21 SeanDaly wiki, activities.sugarlabs.org ("ASLO")
16:22 satellit-gn3 different subpages depending on beginner/user/teacher? (from main page)
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16:22 mikedevine i think there's a bit of conflict with the activities page- the devs say it's the only page we like
16:22 RITSteve had to duck out and will be out for a little while and then back, sorry
16:22 christianmarcsch JT4sugar: to your point about the "who" portion--yes, that would a great way to address the community level
16:22 mikedevine have there been any complints from non-devs about the structure of it?
16:22 christianmarcsch marcmertens: did you have any thoughts on a potential community aspect of the site?
16:24 mikedevine i think for the community aspect, thr forums would be the crux
16:24 we discussed that with john last week
16:24 walterbender SeanDaly: I don't see how we can eliminate ASLO or the wiki Activities pages. But maybe we can include them in the mainsite search somehow and make a clear path back to the main site as part of every wiki page and ASLO page???
16:24 christianmarcsch mikedevine: as far as ASLO, i think that falls into bucket #2. maybe we could broaden it to be more generally about how to get the most out of the software
16:25 SeanDaly walterbender: sorry I'm not at all saying eliminate - I'm sayin we need to address problem of separate search engines (counter-intuitive)
16:25 marcmertens i'm seeing two sides to the community. core audience is developers. but there is also a user community (aka students) which we are looking at as a great asset for communication the vision of sugar - maybe even fundraise?
16:25 the teacher would also fall into the category of user from that perspective.
16:26 SeanDaly marcmertens: MIT Sloan Marketlab study showed that teachers are disoriented by technical orientation of site
16:26 dogi SeanDaly, +1
16:26 JT4sugar walterbender, Can links be added to ASLO activities download site for How to Videos of activities, floss manual, etc. one stop shop for everything to do with Activity
16:26 christianmarcsch marcmertens: yes, that makes a lot of sense. developers should be part of the community section--how to participate in the project
16:27 is there perhaps a general "get involved" section?
16:27 dogi and www.sugarlabs.org should address mostly teachers
16:27 JT4sugar dogi, +1
16:27 christianmarcsch "getting involved" could include ways to donate, as well as participating in other ways (as a teacher, developer, etc.)
16:27 mikedevine i think if there's any group that may need their own path through the site, it's devs
16:28 walterbender SeanDaly: my point is that we don't have the resources to centralize (and make static) the ever evolving activities documentation - so essential to our users - but if part of the design is to somehow integrate its access through a common search and a common visual look, we may be able to provide a bit more clarity to our users.
16:28 mikedevine so i think keeping the dev-relevant content separate from the rest is something to address
16:28 not necessarily a separate site- but arranging the structure so they don't clash
16:28 dogi activities.sl.o is address all users ...
16:29 christianmarcsch let's focus the discussion briefly around the educational section
16:29 dogi mikedevine, wiki.slo is for developer?
16:29 christianmarcsch we talked about project origins and the larger vision
16:29 mikedevine so we just need to sort out the content based on who it's relevant to, and structure the site based on that in the context of who/what/how
16:29 christianmarcsch what other aspects are there that we should address?
16:29 SeanDaly walterbender: yes, quite - this is what christianmarcsch & I had worked on with common navbar. If search can be integrated (or at the very least clearly labeled as local), we will help first/infrequent visitors
16:29 mikedevine *what/why/how
16:29 christianmarcsch #topic educational proposition
16:30 for instance, do we have any data or studies on how sugar is improving children's educational experience?
16:30 testimonials from teachers, etc.
16:31 mikedevine so do we consolidate the educational aspects into a page, or spread it around pages as it's relevant to each party?
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16:31 christianmarcsch mikedevine: for now let's not assume pages yet--let's first discuss more generally, then we can later think about how to incorporate
16:31 satellit-gn3 case studies...
16:32 christianmarcsch satellit-gn3: do you know if we have any materials we can already leverage for case studies?
16:32 SeanDaly christianmarcsch: Gerald Ardito dissertation...
16:32 sverma picture=1000 words. Be sure to have pictures of children using Sugar.
16:32 mikedevine well a quick youtube search turned up mostly keynotes, not much in the way of actual cases of user interaction
16:32 i think videos are even more valuable here
16:33 christianmarcsch sverma: agreed--we'll get to imagery in a few minutes
16:33 marcmertens SeanDaly: a differentiation between first-time and regular visitor strikes me as key. new visitors get a visual-marketing oriented view, case studies, results, maybe even featured student/teacher stories.
16:33 satellit_ take examples from http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/S[…]on_channels#Blogs
16:33 SeanDaly marcmertens: +1
16:33 JT4sugar christianmarcsch, Getting across as part of Educational proposition that we are an Educational non-profit here is super important helps with fundraising and garnering more community support. Key recommendation from MarketLab study
16:33 marcmertens returning visitors have a easy pathway deep into the community resources.
16:33 christianmarcsch marcmertens: a great point to add to our section of "meta" principles
16:34 JT4sugar: noted, and agreed
16:34 jtmengel marcmertens: +1
16:34 christianmarcsch SeanDaly: would it be possible to distill Gerald's dissertation into a high-level summary, and then link to the full resource?
16:35 SeanDaly christianmarcsch: re case study, there was Gardner pilot report
16:35 christianmarcsch: let's ask Gerald
16:35 walterbender there is lots of material in Spanish as well from .uy, .pe, and .py
16:35 christianmarcsch SeanDaly: great--these are good references to look at during our session on Friday
16:35 JT4sugar christianmarcsch, I should be able to check with Gerald on that
16:35 christianmarcsch JT4sugar: thanks
16:36 SeanDaly christianmarcsch: however, the "missing link" here would be case study from large (or small) OLPC deployment
16:36 christianmarcsch SeanDaly: could you pls send links to the Gardner pilot report and Gerald's dissertation after the meeting?
16:36 SeanDaly walterbender: is Gardner report online?
16:37 christianmarcsch SeanDaly: yes, that would actually be very relevant
16:37 bernie: would you have access to any such materials from the deployments?
16:38 SeanDaly mikedevine: re videos, the SL video channel is here: http://www.dailymotion.com/sugarlabs
16:38 sverma looking at http://Kiva.org ...clean and welcoming. Its visual, and has important info up front.
16:38 JT4sugar christianmarcsch, For new users to the site I think seeing is believing! That's why new OLPC site is so powerful
16:38 christianmarcsch sverma: yes, a great reference that we should all look at
16:38 sverma if we think hook, line, sinker then the hook has to be effective. Otherwise the other stuff may never get read!
16:39 christianmarcsch sverma: i'll assign everyone the task to send links to "analogous" web sites before our meeting on friday, so we can review them in the morning
16:39 mikedevine sverma: jt and i were discussing how to structure each section, and we like that site's layout
16:39 jtmengel (that site being kiva.org)
16:39 christianmarcsch JT4sugar: absolutely--powerful imagery is key to creating engagement
16:40 mikedevine we're thinking for each section after the splash page, the click-throughs, of structuring the content as "mini-hubs", where returning users would use that as their bookmark instead of the splash page
16:40 christianmarcsch any other comments for the education section?
16:40 mikedevine and that structure on kiva looks like a good fit for some of the "hubs", i.e. the student and maybe parent hubs, as far as layout is concerned
16:40 and it looks technically easy to do too
16:41 christianmarcsch satellit_: thanks for the link to examples
16:41 mikedevine well if there's a need to generate more content for the education section...
16:41 satellit-gn3 : )
16:41 mikedevine at rit we have several groups who focus on generating content similar to what would work well on this siye
16:41 so we could maybe look into recruiting them to help generate new content
16:41 but that's a whole other pie right there
16:42 walterbender SeanDaly: ^ gardner report, I'll look... it wasn't so compelling though, as I recall.
16:42 JT4sugar SeanDaly, Think we need to have more comprehensive How to and Tutorial videos. Daily motion videos are just little snippets-could be longer and more engaging
16:42 mikedevine we can dicuss that sort of topic at the actual dev meeting
16:42 christianmarcsch mikedevine: let's discuss more on friday
16:42 mikedevine yeah
16:42 christianmarcsch great, let's move on to the next section
16:42 mikedevine we already have enough to type about today, my hand's starting to hurt
16:42 SeanDaly christianmarcsch: teacher buy-in essential for Sugar adoption, esp. on non-OLPC machines. Intel Learning Series very teacher-oriented
16:42 christianmarcsch #topic learning about the Sugar software
16:42 SeanDaly: thanks
16:43 satellit_ need to incorporate http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/S[…]Kit#Floss_Manuals
16:43 SeanDaly JT4sugar: not only do we need videos, we need people to make 'em :D
16:43 christianmarcsch so, for the software section i have two main points:
16:43 (1) instructions for installing sugar (incl. VNC)
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16:43 mikedevine seandaly: hence the discussion we can have on friday about that
16:43 christianmarcsch (2) installing/finding activities (ASLO)
16:43 mikedevine lots of opportunities there
16:44 alsroot_away is now known as alsroot
16:44 mikedevine so how do we want to convey that?
16:44 video tutorials? faq's?
16:44 a combination?
16:44 christianmarcsch mikedevine: video tutorials would be great
16:44 ganderson <ganderson!~ganderson@province-wireless-173-84-27-85​.dr02.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> has joined #sugar-meeting
16:44 mikedevine also how does that vary between each section? i.e. i assume it'll be explained much differently to a student than a teacher
16:44 christianmarcsch mikedevine: my only concern with video in general are the higher production values
16:45 satellit_ problem is it is different in different community distributions of sugar
16:45 JT4sugar satellit-gn3, Langauge in Creation Kit should  be walked down to man on the street level(from a technical point of view) for someone who is not a command line expert. Screenshot tutorial on how to?
16:45 christianmarcsch mikedevine: but if we can generate the materials, then that would be terrific
16:45 mikedevine well for instructional purposes, production values don't factor in as much
16:45 jtmengel I think that videos are excellent tools, however they would be difficult if you do not share the video's language
16:45 mikedevine i mean we can do that up here on our own
16:45 just using screengrabs and narration
16:45 SeanDaly christianmarcsch: ironically, I have all the gear to make great video (4 Power Macs, 3 DV cams), just not the time :-(
16:45 mikedevine so if we want videos, we can make that happen here
16:45 christianmarcsch jtmengel: a good point--perhaps we could use more diagramatic means to communicate how to install?
16:46 SeanDaly christianmarcsch: however I have struggled with tech difficulty of screencap software
16:46 christianmarcsch SeanDaly: but good to know that you have the gear...!
16:46 jtmengel christianmarcsch, i think that would be a viable solution, especially with plentiful illustrations and images to accompany the guide
16:46 SeanDaly christianmarcsch: Final Cut Pro, ProTools..
16:46 christianmarcsch i'll make a note of the use of diagrams/illustration to communicate to a broad multilingual audience
16:47 any other aspects to the software itself that we need to convey?
16:47 jtmengel christianmarcsch i would be very interested in that :-)
16:47 mikedevine i think we should focus on what each group needs
16:47 satellit_ branch web site by language and user level from first page?
16:47 mikedevine students need different information than parents in a how to guide
16:47 SeanDaly christianmarcsch: Sugar is "platform-agnostic" one of our key claims
16:47 christianmarcsch satellit_: you raise a very important point--what to do about localization
16:48 mikedevine well we can make different videos for each platform
16:48 satellit_ VirtualBox is agnostic!
16:48 mikedevine well as far as that goes:
16:48 walterbender Spanish of course should be a priority as it represents 75% of our users
16:48 dogi: we should run one of the treehouse VMs in .es
16:48 SeanDaly christianmarcsch: Marketlab recommended one-button pancake installer, but it's a bit trickier than that... why vids essential I think to assist
16:49 mikedevine if we use text in the videos and not narration, we can try and arrange it so after the fact, we can have the text content translated
16:49 christianmarcsch walterbender: we really need a multilingual solution for the new site, to at the very least address spanish as well as english
16:49 walterbender christianmarcsch: absolutely
16:49 JT4sugar christianmarcsch, I think we can get a list of the most important How to's from a Teachers point of view from Gerald(Educational and Technical) Then make them audience specific-Teacher, parent, student
16:49 christianmarcsch mikedevine: that's true--we could use captioning
16:50 mikedevine so the video translation is separate from the rest of the site as far as our approach
16:50 which is good
16:50 christianmarcsch JT4sugar: that's a great idea. let's reach out to Gerald about that
16:50 JT4sugar christianmarcsch, Will do
16:50 SeanDaly mikedevine: re subtitle internationalization: check out http://www.universalsubtitles.org/en/
16:50 christianmarcsch so if there aren't any additional sections to add for software, let's briefly talk about "community"
16:51 #topic community
16:51 for this area, are we thinking of forums for each audience segment (developers, teachers, students)?
16:51 mikedevine again, i think the crux of the community section will be the forums
16:51 yeah
16:52 christianmarcsch marcmertens: is that what you also had in mind?
16:52 marcmertens i'm interested in the community as a marketing mechanism for sugar.
16:52 i agree that the nuts and bolts will happen in the forum
16:52 walterbender we have a developer forum already: #sugar
16:52 christianmarcsch marcmertens: can you explain more your thinking?
16:53 marcmertens but there is huge opportunity to engage a large audience with the project if we pull the right pieces of content out of the community
16:53 walterbender a teacher forum would be great!!!
16:53 christianmarcsch marcmertens: agreed
16:53 marcmertens kiva was a great example of getting the public exposed to the results of the program.
16:53 christianmarcsch walterbender: yes, that would be fantastic
16:53 marcmertens i see real people & I see their progress.
16:53 JT4sugar As I have brought up for teachers it must be segemented into Grade level/Age level so they will take time to engage
16:54 SeanDaly JT4sugar: good point
16:54 christianmarcsch JT4sugar: noted
16:54 marcmertens i have an opening to contribute - and am now hooked to stay in touch and find out how 'my entrepreneur' (or in sugar's case, my student or teacher) is doing.
16:54 mikedevine and of course the forums would be segmented for students/teachers/parents/devs
16:54 so everyone essentially gets their own forum, so to speak
16:54 so content gets sorted that way
16:55 christianmarcsch do we want to create a forum for students and parents as well, or first focus on developers and teachers
16:55 mikedevine well everyone would have sections
16:55 christianmarcsch we should at least have a link to the developer forum from the "front door" site
16:55 m_anish_afk is now known as m_anish
16:56 christianmarcsch i'm concerned about security when it comes to students--does anyone have experience with that aspect? would we need moderation?
16:56 sverma when sorting forums, pages, sites, I would suggest we keep it "Activity based" (sound familiar?) as opposed to platform-based (wiki, etc) or role based...
16:56 RITSteve has quit IRC
16:56 mikedevine implementing forums is easy, so we can create the forums, then focus on structuring content within each section of the frums
16:56 satellit_ nice web page example: http://trisquel.info/en
16:56 SeanDaly mikedevine: sorting may be trickier than it seems... often, a teacher's "why can't I do X" requires an answer from devs... however these questions useful for devs to become aware of classroom needs
16:56 walterbender christianmarcsch: I think we need to do child to child in walled gardens with teachers present
16:56 mikedevine well the forum solution i found has solutions for mods/admins
16:56 RITSteve <RITSteve!~RITSteve@sxjics.rit.edu> has joined #sugar-meeting
16:56 mikedevine here's the link to the feature set:
16:57 christianmarcsch walterbender: that makes sense
16:57 mikedevine http://www.phpbb.com/about/features/index.php
16:57 it has loads of features for moderating and admining the forums
16:57 christianmarcsch ok, since we only have a few minutes left
16:57 JT4sugar Forums for kids to upload and share Sugar work/projects(teacher approved) so parents can see might be an idea
16:57 mikedevine and it's free and open-source, which meshes well with sugar labs' philosophy
16:57 christianmarcsch we've already addressed most of the agenda points
16:58 i am wondering about imagery
16:58 dogi walterbender, sure have already one running .es
16:58 christianmarcsch what do we have available, what should we produce, how do we communicate the value prop for sugar through visual means?
16:58 sverma mapping workflow of "customers" be it students, teachers ,parents or devs will be important
16:58 christianmarcsch #topic imagery
16:59 sverma: +1
16:59 jtmengel this brings up the question of: shall we try to generate images/illustrations or would we prefer utilizing what pictures exist?
16:59 mikedevine well whatever we have, we should either post on the google docs, or link to it from with a file on the google docs, so we can all see what we already have to work with
16:59 then we can all see what gaps we need to fill w/ new content
16:59 christianmarcsch jtmengel: that is what i wanted to get at. i know that we already have a growing repository of imagery from the field, it would be great to tap into that
17:00 mikedevine and that's something that i feel is easier to discuss in person, with all our imagery in front of us
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17:00 christianmarcsch how about communicating the benefits of sugar through imagery?
17:00 SeanDaly sverma: some websites ask visitors to self-select e.g.: "Sugar for teachers", "Sugar for developers"...
17:00 mikedevine so if we spend between now and the meeting collecting content on the google docs, we can lookat it together and evaluate what we have and what we need
17:00 ganderson <ganderson!~ganderson@province-wireless-173-84-27-85​.dr02.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> has joined #sugar-meeting
17:00 christianmarcsch SeanDaly: you had mentioned showing the XO and a generic laptop side-by-side
17:00 RITSteve We kinda did something similar in sample images in the strawman
17:00 jtmengel children (especially international visitors to the site) will have an easier time understanding and accessing a well made picture
17:00 sverma I realize that while there is a push to put Sugar on all kinds of platforms, and not just XOs, don't shy away from OLPC imagery. They are SL's biggest customers yet :-)
17:00 RITSteve One XO, One Mac, One pc
17:01 SeanDaly christianmarcsch: yes, important to communicate Sugar can run on non-OLPC hardware; while reminding that 2 million Sugar using Learners are in the world
17:01 christianmarcsch htmengel, sverma, RITSteve: agree
17:01 mikedevine that's why we need to structure the site in a way that's image-friendly, not as text-based
17:01 dogi christianmarcsch, think we can use some pictures of sugar activites enhanced with pictures of kids so that we cover the virtual and the real world with one picture
17:01 mikedevine helps alleviate the internationalization issue
17:01 sverma SeanDaly: My concern is that the workflow may span two domains such as devs and teachers. The segmentation of forums will keep those separate
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17:02 christianmarcsch SeanDaly: yes
17:02 RITSteve I'm really goal oriented in design and task oriented in development
17:02 christianmarcsch dogi: that's a really great idea
17:02 dogi :)
17:02 RITSteve I'm hoping that what comes out of the NYC meeting is a triaged approach
17:03 christianmarcsch imagery and how to visually communicate the benefits will be a big topic for us on friday
17:03 does anyone have any last comments?
17:03 walterbender <walterbender!~webchat@jita.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting
17:03 JT4sugar walterbender, Can you put out email blast to your vast network to mine for Imagery from the field?
17:03 christianmarcsch dogi, did we address your point you raised at the beginning?
17:03 SeanDaly christianmarcsch: for me ideal images will be looking over shoulder of kid & teacher looking at an Activity
17:03 christianmarcsch JT4sugar: that would be great--let's pool our resources for friday so we can figure out what we have to work with
17:03 RITSteve Immediate needs driven by the bike race, expanded content done by the end of the academic quarter when you lose Mike and JT and longer term goals like the collaboration platform that's been discusse
17:03 walterbender JT4sugar: will send *another* such blast...
17:03 dogi christianmarcsch, did you look in the private chat ...
17:04 sverma another thing I've noticed about imagery is how the potential customer reacts to the image. If they see a child in "Africa" then they think its not for my kids because they go to a private school in Palo Alto, CA.
17:04 jtmengel sverma, this is regrettably true
17:04 RITSteve Both of RIT students have been introduced to a design paradigm called miyamotos pyramid that they'll share with you as a way they are used to looking at these things
17:04 mikedevine well multiple images can help that
17:05 sverma so, maybe the images should be representative of both "Africa" and the kid in Palo Alto.
17:05 JT4sugar christianmarcsch, On Sameer's point can we have place in Teachers forums where problems can be forwarded to developer through a "suggestion/problem/feature request box" that gets sent to devs to overcome separate forum set up
17:05 jtmengel i think that using iconic imagery can sidestep this, but I personally would sooner see pictures of that classroom in Paolo Alto beside those students across seas
17:05 sverma mikedevine: true. Its all about perceptions in the early stages of the game.
17:05 lucian <lucian!~lucian@78-86-217-168.zone2.bethere.co.uk> has joined #sugar-meeting
17:06 christianmarcsch JT4sugar: yes, we need to incorporate that. at the very least an automated email form
17:06 satellit_ help forums will need knowledgeable volunteers to man them....
17:06 sverma jtmengel: iconic imagery lacks the human touch...too impersonal, IMO
17:07 mikedevine there's definitely a balance between too personal and too inpersonal
17:07 RITSteve Imagery discussion is likely best handled friday, what types of content or functionality have we locked in on as crucial
17:07 jtmengel sverma, I completely agree for the sake of this project
17:07 christianmarcsch RITSteve: looking forwad to learning more about miyamotos pyramid
17:07 mikedevine making the imagery relatable but not polarizin
17:07 SeanDaly i agree multiple images important, not just "one great image"
17:07 christianmarcsch SeanDaly: +1
17:07 jtmengel SeanDaly: +1
17:07 sverma JT4Sugar: I still think forums should not be segmented on the basis of role, but on the basis of task
17:08 christianmarcsch alright everyone--i will need to break off
17:08 SeanDaly field images will be great but important that we have releases for use of recognizable individuals
17:08 christianmarcsch but we have covered all the agenda items and i have extensive notes that i will email to everyone after the meeting
17:08 SeanDaly many thanks christianmarcsch!
17:08 christianmarcsch overall i think we have a good grasp on what the site needs to do, and how to structure it
17:08 i definitely appreciate everyone's time today
17:08 JT4sugar RIT-Mike and JT I take from comments you are in for Friday?
17:09 jtmengel christianmarcsch, thank you for taking the time with us :-)
17:09 RITSteve Christianmarsch: good
17:09 walterbender two questions:
17:09 christianmarcsch now that we have our design "brief", we can go into our working session with a more clear understanding of what needs to be accomplished
17:09 walterbender (1) to whom should I ask that people send images for the website?
17:09 marcmertens <marcmertens!~webchat@jita.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting
17:09 walterbender (2) when are we gathering in NYC?
17:09 jtmengel JT4sugar, I am making arrangements to that end, I'll shoot off an email just after this
17:09 mikedevine walterbender: i think the google docs would be food for collecting the images
17:09 everyone can see them then
17:10 RITSteve Sorry I won't be able to join you in NYC folks, but looking forward to seeing the results
17:10 mikedevine *good
17:10 marcmertens Here are some community-related areas I identified that need more thinking - I will ponder before friday:  (a) community experience for a new visitor to sugar - feature stories and/or user from within the sugar community (students, teachers, dev's) - potential fundraising tie in to the above (b) community experience for existing users - how do we make it fun & rewarding for students to engage in the community / forums - how we help (non-tech
17:10 jtmengel walterbender, I would like access to the images to begin editing out assets
17:10 christianmarcsch walterbender: they can send the images to me, and i will pool them. better yet, maybe we could create a flickr account (private for now)?
17:11 JT4sugar christianmarcsch, After RIT guys verify Friday can you send out agenda with possible times we can interact with you after morning work session
17:11 christianmarcsch JT4sugar: absolutely
17:11 walterbender not sure how to set up a privite Flickr account that we announce to a public list to upload images :P
17:11 SeanDaly marcmertens: good list
17:11 christianmarcsch walterbender: good point :)
17:11 walterbender: let me do a little research
17:11 walterbender maybe ask them to upload them to the wiki and send email to christianmarcsch ?
17:11 christianmarcsch walterbender: that would be fine, also
17:11 walterbender OK.
17:12 christianmarcsch walterbender: but let me do some research and let you know
17:12 so we have two tasks for friday
17:12 (1) pool all of our image assets (after we figure out storage)
17:13 (2) please send me any links to analogous websites that you think might inform the new design
17:13 SeanDaly christianmarcsch: one final point about branding - changing logo
17:14 color-changing logo
17:14 walterbender christianmarcsch: do you need me to reserve a room at the SFC for Friday?
17:14 SeanDaly arrrgh keyboard
17:14 JT4sugar christianmarcsch, Will you inturn forward to RIT guys so they can begin to play with
17:14 christianmarcsch SeanDaly: no worries :)
17:14 walterbender: JT4sugar will confirm the time, and then it would be great to reserve a room
17:14 SeanDaly I mean I love how logo changes colors but I think could be good to enlarge/change palette of combos
17:14 mikedevine it may take the rest of the quarter and several all-nighters- but i think we can pull of the color-changing logo :)
17:15 christianmarcsch SeanDaly: we can definitely discuss that
17:15 JT4sugar walterbender, After RIT guys confirmation I will let you know time needed
17:15 SeanDaly mikedevine: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Marketing_Team/Logo
17:15 christianmarcsch thanks again everyone--unless there are any last comments i'll go ahead and end the meeting
17:16 RITSteve rit guys discussing transpo now
17:16 SeanDaly thanks all
17:16 christianmarcsch #endmeeting
17:16 meeting Meeting ended Tue Mar 15 17:16:48 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
17:16 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-15T16:04:05.html
17:16 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]11-03-15T16:04:05
17:16 JT4sugar RITSteve, Thanks for all your help!
17:17 RITSteve Always happy to do so
17:17 christianmarcsch thanks--talk to you soon, and expect a summary email of our conversation shortly
17:18 christianmarcsch has quit IRC
17:18 RITSteve later folks
17:18 RITSteve has left #sugar-meeting
17:19 jtmengel thanks all :-)
17:19 JT4sugar Thanks JT & Mike
17:19 dogi ciao
17:21 JT4sugar dogi, How is VNC going?
17:22 dogi JT4sugar, I m slowly scaling it ...
17:22 http://monitoring.treehouse.su/munin/index.html
17:22 6 vnc sugars online
17:22 3 next to be online
17:23 JT4sugar Right on-If on website if to many people try to access will it just crash?
17:23 dogi no working on the detection if on of this vnc is used
17:24 and all the others can only watch
17:24 satellit_ dogi: is there a link for me to test?
17:24 SeanDaly JT4sugar: problem is, if mentioned in any press story or widely read blog or aggregator, wave of visits will submerge then lousy experience for everyone :-(
17:24 marcmertens has quit IRC
17:25 dogi satellit_, sure
17:25 satellit_ by e-mail or pm
17:25 dogi irc private ...
17:26 satellit_ thanks
17:27 SeanDaly bye all
17:27 SeanDaly has quit IRC
17:27 JT4sugar dogi, Can there be some sort of automated run through so people can see Sugar in action sort of an ongoing animation of things Sugar or can separate VNC's be set up so people can try out collaboration in small groups(Up to 6)
17:27 dogi JT4sugar, right now I can offer 6 persons a full sugar in the browser experience and the others can watch what they are doing
17:28 JT4sugar, yes but I m not there right now
17:28 JT4sugar dogi, Love the idea look forward to it maturing
17:28 dogi JT4sugar, thx :)
17:30 satellit_ I am off afk...thanks all
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22:05 <gonzalo-es> hello ...
22:05 <pflores-es> hola!
22:05 <geirea-es> hello
22:05 <gonzalo-es> hello, already begun?
22:06 <geirea-es> no, but it's a good idea to start now
22:06 <gonzalo-es> Etherpad use?
22:06 <pflores-es> gonzalo: will be good
22:07 <gonzalo-es> if they can come here http://openetherpad.org/jbLB7nGaz6
22:09 <geirea-es> aa: starter ^ ^
22:13 JT4sugar <JT4sugar!JT@d192-24-250-129.try.wideopenwest.com> has joined #sugar-meeting
22:25 meeting <geirea-es> aa: we are working on Etherpad ^ ^
22:25 <gonzalo-es> http://openetherpad.org/jbLB7nGaz6
22:35 * FernandoSansberr-es has joined
22:35 <FernandoSansberr-es> toy
22:36 <pflores-es> FernandoSansberr: we are working on http://openetherpad.org/jbLB7nGaz6 Etherpad
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23:04 meeting <gonzalo-es> we http://openetherpad.org/jbLB7nGaz6
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23:41 walterbender oops. did I just miss the EduJam meeting?
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