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#sugar-meeting, 2011-03-12

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All times shown according to UTC.

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13:54 bernie alsroot, silbe, tch, m_anish_afk, *: do we have the meeting in 5?
13:56 tch bernie: sure, :) guess we can go for a quick meeting since there is not much to tell (at least from .py)
13:57 silbe bernie: I think so, though I haven't seen an agenda yet.
13:58 bernie it may be a good time to start planning for DX3
13:58 ...and conclude DX2. the release hasn't been announced yet!
14:00 dfarning <dfarning!~dfarning@gateway/shell/sugarlabs.org/x-ccrjfgmbsjqxoxbx> has joined #sugar-meeting
14:00 dfarning good morning
14:00 icaritox good morning all
14:01 tch hello there :)
14:01 dfarning icaritox tch good morning
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14:02 bernie hello eveyryone
14:03 shall we #startmeeting?
14:03 dfarning hey bernie can you lead the meeting?
14:03 bernie dfarning: ok.
14:03 #startmeeting
14:03 meeting Meeting started Sat Mar 12 14:03:40 2011 UTC. The chair is bernie. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:03 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
14:03 bernie Meeting agenda:
14:03 meeting bernie: Error: "agenda:" is not a valid command.
14:03 dfarning I would just like one topic on payments:(
14:04 bernie * Releasing DX2
14:04 * Dextrose 3 roadmap
14:04 dirakx hi all
14:04 bernie * Payments
14:04 anything else?
14:04 dfarning morning dirakx
14:05 dirakx morning
14:05 satellit-gn3 lurking
14:05 dfarning morning satellit-gn3
14:05 bernie ok, let's proceed
14:05 #topic Releasing DX2
14:06 so, m_anish_afk does not seem to be present.
14:06 dfarning m_anish_afk is going to miss today.
14:06 bernie tch: perhaps you could make an international build and update the wiki page with missing features, etc?
14:06 dfarning he said --I won't be able to make it to today's meeting. There isn't any major NEWS on py related developments other than the fact that testing is going on and we're merging patches and fixing things.
14:07 bernie tch: also, how "finished" can we consider DX2? are there any serious regressions?
14:08 tch back, sorry i was on the phone
14:09 bernie: I believe there is not much left to do, but we will go caacupe next week and see how it doing with the teachers, formadores and kids
14:09 bernie tch: so maybe we could upload the build and announce it as a beta?
14:10 tch as anish said on that email, this week we have been just merging patching, fixing last reported/seen bugs and moving services into pyedu servers for (rpm updates, activity updates, and feedback stuff)
14:10 yeah, guess we just need to release a new build with the feedback tweaked ;)
14:11 dfarning bernie the interesting stuff this week was tch's server level work. he is just to modest to say so:)
14:11 bernie tch: ah, what work?
14:12 dfarning activity update.... rpm update....
14:13 bernie tch: ah!
14:13 tch i just installed/set those services in amnesia
14:13 dfarning this will help insure uniform versions for core dexttrose and activities across all users in a deployment.
14:13 tch i did it twice becase carlos created a special VM for those services but then roberto told him to delete it..
14:13 so i had to do it twice lol
14:14 bernie tch: has the infrastructure stabilized in PyEdu?
14:14 dfarning very big pain in the butt for teachers and formadores  when everyone has a different version:(
14:14 tch i think so, they virtualised  all servers into 1 physical machine
14:15 everythinf is running fine apparently,
14:15 bernie tch: i should tell carlos not to create too many VMs... it's a typical beginner's mistake :-)
14:15 tch he already did that, haha
14:16 bernie haha
14:16 tch anyways, guess everything is ready for the mass update that is supposed to be going 0n caacupe this last week
14:16 s/this/since
14:16 bernie tch: fantastic
14:16 tch: is there an ETA for the new machines?
14:17 tch not really, all I heard is that there were some problems with the shipment and it would arrive a little later
14:17 again
14:17 bernie haha
14:17 i'm sorry for those kids :-(
14:17 dirakx :S
14:18 tch ;/
14:18 nothing we can do about it, except for making good use of that extra time and make the software better ;)
14:18 bernie tch: Dextrose 2 is a great product. we should make sure that other deployments know about it. Can you do the DX2 international release?
14:19 tch bernie: sure, I will work with anish on that
14:19 bernie tch: suburashii
14:19 ok, next topic?
14:20 #topic Dextrose 3
14:20 silbe: do you have any updates on DX3? (i guess not, but asking just in case)
14:21 hmm guess not
14:21 this will be a short meeting :)
14:21 silbe bernie: nop, I'm blocking on the distro level stuff. Who's doing it now?
14:21 bernie silbe: nobody. can you take it over?
14:22 silbe bernie: not so fast. I usually think before typing. ;)
14:22 bernie: I partially did, see my outstanding patches. Should I just push them?
14:23 bernie silbe: i haven't seen your patches yet, but if you take over the buildmaster role, it's up to you to decide :)
14:24 silbe bernie: I'm still not very experienced working with Red Hat derivatives, so I'm not particularly efficient. It would be good to get something else with more experience to work on the distro level issues so I can focus on Sugar.
14:25 bernie silbe: probably the amount of work for m_anish_afk will decrease now that DX2 is reeleased... he could take over DX2 as well.
14:25 dirakx maybe nubae ?
14:25 just thinking.
14:25 bernie silbe: if it were on me, i'd continue from the dx2 repo, creating a branch for the stable build and then importing the latest olpc-os-builder, etc.
14:26 dirakx: he's also missing now... and he has not much experience with the process of building the olpc os images (which took me a while to learn, it's a mess)
14:26 dirakx bernie: ugh.
14:27 silbe bernie: we already have a DX3 repo that we're building from, but there are some issues like NM not starting up automatically. There's also a whole lot of upstream (OLPC) changes waiting to be merged - I merged them locally some time ago, but the repo hasn't been updated in a long time. Plus OLPC is likely to have committed quite a few bug fixes since I did the merge.
14:28 bernie: how customised is the dextrose stuff? Would it make sense to start over from a recent OLPC clone? Do you know if OLPC already switched to fedpkg?
14:29 bernie silbe: so you prefer to continue using the separate dextrose3 project on gitorious? i'm just sad for loosing the git history.
14:30 silbe: we have a few customizations on the olpc-os-builder, but easy to rebase. during the DX1 cycle, i rebased several times
14:30 silbe bernie: I don't care much either way as long as it isn't too much work and easy enough for "random" developers to use.
14:30 bernie silbe: during the DX2 cycle it did not make sense to do it because dsd had switched to F14 and we were still doing F11.
14:31 silbe: anyway, it's easy to add the olpc-os-builder repo as a remote in the dextrose or dextrose3 repositories and pull from there.
14:32 silbe: if you would like to try running dx3 builds yourself, i can assist you with the fedora details.
14:32 silbe bernie: that's what I already did. I'm just wondering whether it might be easy to re-do the Dextrose customisations on a fresh OLPC tree. There were a lot of conflicts where I didn't quite understand who changed what and why. Maybe OLPC and Dextrose solving the same problem in different ways...
14:33 bernie: the most recent DX3 build is on my desktop. ;)
14:34 bernie silbe: that's because we've lost the history in dextrose3. If you looked at  the original dextrose repo, you'd see all my patches on top of olpc-os-builder
14:35 silbe: anyway, i'm quite familiar with the o-o-b codebase... i can help here too
14:35 silbe: my changes to o-o-b are mostly quick hacks, so if dsd remade them in a better way, we should drop my changes
14:37 silbe: when do you think you could upload a new DX3 test image?
14:37 silbe bernie: ok, then a (manual) rebase on top of the OLPC tree sounds like a good idea. If you have some time after the meeting, we could decide on the best way to do it (DX2/3 in common or separate repository, rebase vs. merge, etc.).
14:38 bernie: I'd do a build right after we finished the rebasing work and a local test image booted successfully.
14:38 bernie silbe: ok, let's work on it together later (but first i need a couple of hours to do my house chores)
14:39 ok. anything else on DX3?
14:39 silbe bernie: no problem, I have other stuff I can work on in the meantime.
14:40 bernie: I don't think there's anything else for now. The distro level issues and the Telepathy bugs are the current blockers.
14:41 bernie silbe: ah damn... i hope erikos can work with you on those
14:41 #topic payments
14:41 dfarning: was this topic for real? :-)
14:41 silbe bernie: I've worked on a few bugs OLPC cared about to give Simon time to work on Telepathy, but I don't know how far he got (there was some minor activity on Telepathy related bugs, though).
14:41 dfarning I have been have trouble with payments:( It is very hard to send money to PY and CO.
14:42 as a result my accounts were frozen most of the last two weeks. until I filled paper work with the back and govt.
14:42 dirakx something we can do from the destination countries ?.
14:42 dfarning I think they are finally fixed:-/
14:43 dirakx oh cool.
14:43 bernie silbe: as a matter of fact, rgs could help us with telepathy. he works for collabora and he's been working on collaboration with walter.
14:43 dfarning buy can you keep on eye on your accounts over the next couple of days... everything _should_ have bee unfrozen yesterday at noon.
14:43 bernie silbe: anyway, i fell that we should not spend too much time on the platform work because it's olpc's role to fix those things.
14:44 shuts up and listens
14:44 dfarning that it is for payments -- I was panicked for a couple of weeks but things are back on track now.
14:45 bernie my turn to shut up:)
14:45 dirakx :)
14:46 bernie well, we have no more topics after this one
14:46 #topic misc
14:46 does anyone want to make any comment?
14:46 dirakx icaritox: si quieres decir algo ;)
14:47 bernie icaritox: hola
14:47 icaritox hola chicos :-D
14:47 dfarning bernie can you clarify your new role and responibility in AC?
14:47 'helper programmer'
14:47 bernie dfarning: ah yes!
14:47 i have a job description too:
14:48 dfarning +1.
14:48 bernie Mentors developers across all projects on technological and organizational aspects. Oversees team meetings to help establish development guidelines and roadmaps. Advises management on product/customer development.
14:48 dfarning excellent
14:49 bernie Basically, i'm not in a management position. i work on the side, but across all teams.
14:49 icaritox nothing really as my tasks seems to be clear for the moment, just that I'm really excited to be a part of this and learning a lot - I have lots of ideas about how to make activities and activities development more joyful - will communicate more during this week (we just moved to the countryside yesterday - with a new openwrt router + gsm modem)
14:49 dirakx bernie:  transversally
14:49 bernie dirakx: good buzzword :)
14:49 dirakx hehe.
14:49 icaritox yes dirakx uses that word a lot :-D
14:50 sugar is a tranversal project after all
14:50 satellitXO15 <satellitXO15!~urk@208-100-148-220.bendbroadband.com> has joined #sugar-meeting
14:50 dirakx we call it ''muletilla''.
14:50 dfarning yes, bernie like me does not yet collect a paycheck from AC so we have to understand that his responsibilities are to the FSF....
14:51 silbe dirakx: how's the Pootle update work going, BTW? IIRC we still need a more recent Pootle version for the pgettext() / context support?
14:51 bernie as it's been the case for the past 4 months or so, i'm mostly unavailable from 9am to 6pm EST
14:51 dirakx silbe: I've already done an installation..I'm migrate the DB..got a lot of work solving some issues still pending with the old installation.
14:51 CanoeBerry <CanoeBerry!CanoeBerry@c-66-30-2-16.hsd1.ma.comcast.net> has joined #sugar-meeting
14:51 dfarning this way he can lend his expertise and knowledge without being responsible for specif projects.
14:52 dirakx silbe: but it's going o.k.
14:52 bernie even during this time, feel free to ping me on irc about any technical or organizational problems... i'll try to respond as soon as possible
14:52 dirakx silbe: anyways we still lil ethe pgsttext support, pootle 2.1. should solve that.
14:52 bernie CanoeBerry: 'morning
14:53 silbe dirakx: sounds good. Let me know when there's anything I can do on the host / system level to help.
14:53 dirakx silbe: great.
14:55 dfarning Bernie can't tell anyone _what_ to do but one ignores his advice on how to do things are their own peril:)
14:55 bernie icaritox: ah, welcome on board!
14:56 icaritox thank you bernie!
14:56 bernie OBEY OR SUFFER, MORTALS!
14:56 dfarning shuts up again.
14:56 bernie seems like we're out of topics
14:56 silbe dfarning: nice way of phrasing it
14:56 bernie and we have 4 minutes left, so we should wrap up
14:57 dirakx I wanted to say that icaritox has been a great addition.
14:57 ;)
14:57 bernie +1
14:58 icaritox i'm still constantly working on my workflow but really enjoying coding at the activity level
14:58 bernie icaritox: would you like to use the last 2 minutes to say what you've been working on?
14:58 icaritox its like all the platform work is intended for this
14:59 dfarning +1 on icaritox. we hired him on a probationary basis for March.... but I am happy to extend that offer:)
14:59 icaritox i can share that I'm almost done updating toolbars and also have been discussing a requirement from the field in Peru regarding record
14:59 actually on this topic, they need some custom gstreamer hacks
14:59 for shooting a documentary using XOs
15:00 so i'm polishing their requirements and working on a workflow with them
15:00 i'm thinking of using some custom gstreamer flows and also possibly file-share-activity
15:00 goes looking for links
15:01 http://openetherpad.org/requer[…]neokinok-escuelab this is the requierements for the documentary
15:02 it might be good to say that the team in peru is from escuelab + a spanish collective, a spanish project, not directly related with the central ministry but a great way to get exposure at the regional level
15:02 regional means portions of peru
15:02 I also documented my work with toolbars in http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Activity_Team/TODO
15:03 bernie icaritox: Dextrose includes a bunch of audio/video codecs which are restricted in the US and other countries that recognize software patents.
15:03 dirakx icaritox: have you read an email regarding that..? they are working approximating the ministry.
15:03 icaritox this has been most of it so far except tweaking my dev setup and installing a stable 3g connection
15:03 dirakx, yes fortunately communications with the ministry is good and they even mentioned the possibility of installing dextrose
15:03 bernie icaritox: wow, i'm impressed by your TODO page!
15:04 icaritox but hpachas has asked  that they use the Sugar Peru version (based on 10.1.3)
15:04 dirakx icaritox: yeah replied with my point of view if you have anything to add please do.
15:04 icaritox bernie, I meant http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/A[…]ding_new_Toolbars
15:05 :-D
15:05 also I've joined the activities team upstream with sugar
15:05 dogi has quit IRC
15:05 icaritox I think its a good strategy to work upstream as much as possible
15:05 i think we agree on that
15:05 bernie icaritox: +1
15:06 silbe icaritox: All I can say is "Welcome _in_ the team"! :)
15:06 dfarning +1 every thing is offered upstream.
15:06 icaritox dfarning, also regarding walter's question, do you think its worth it working on adding old toolbars to new activities? unless its asked by a deployment I dont think so!
15:06 silbe, vielen dank!
15:07 dfarning icaritox probably not unless a deployment or organization that works with us asks for it directly.
15:07 icaritox agree
15:07 bernie icaritox: at this time, we have only 2 forked activities in Dextrose: Browse (for the new tab button) and Record (for UI fixes, but the latest release should be good for us so we can drop this)
15:08 silbe icaritox: My unsoliticed advice: Let's not work on supporting older distros / Sugar versions unless it makes sense (like with Backup / Restore) or is explicitly requested. Let's give the deployments even more reason to update.
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15:08 icaritox bernie, yes regarding browse tab support, I'd love to have it in my alsroot's sweets 0.88 trisquel packages
15:08 bernie icaritox: i'm -1 on adding old toolbars for conservative deployments... they will never be our customers.
15:08 icaritox if alsroot could help me build these packages myself I'd love to contribute to those also
15:09 bernie icaritox: nice. trisquel rocks
15:09 icaritox btw I must thank alsroot again for these sweets packages they make my activity dev life easier
15:09 bernie icaritox: alsroot rocks too!
15:09 icaritox bernie, yes and sweets has dextrose patches :-D
15:09 silbe icaritox: it's already in the upstream version, so unless alsroot stopped tracking upstream his sweets fork should have it, too.
15:10 icaritox i'll test it when meeting is over - sugar-emulator has a bad habit of disconnecting my wireless network on start
15:10 dfarning let's take the tool bar discussion onto the team mailing list. It involves strategic and tactical business decisions.
15:10 bernie ok
15:10 silbe icaritox: the problem with tabs is that there are critical bugs (read: Browse crashes) on a lot of different distro versions.
15:10 bernie shall we end the meeting?
15:10 icaritox silbe, ah ok I understand
15:10 bernie silbe: yes... i've seen this. it's hard to reproduce.
15:11 icaritox I will look at it
15:11 dirakx we need surf. ;)
15:11 bernie dirakx: indeed
15:11 icaritox nothing further to report from my side :-D
15:11 bernie 3...
15:11 silbe bernie: one of the issues was very easy to reproduce (just close a tab), but I haven't seen it on Debian Squeeze recently, so maybe it has been fixed for good.
15:12 bernie: oh, right, we should talk about Surf on DX-3 some time.
15:12 bernie silbe: we should check on dx3
15:12 silbe: yes. in 2hrs i could be avail for this and for the olpc-os-builder rebase
15:13 ok, end meeting?
15:13 icaritox loves webkit and would like to use it
15:13 bernie 3...
15:13 2...
15:13 1...
15:13 gone
15:13 #endmeeting
15:13 meeting Meeting ended Sat Mar 12 15:13:23 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
15:13 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-12T14:03:40.html
15:13 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]11-03-12T14:03:40
15:13 satellitXO15 439dg  here on XO-1.5 let me know if i can help test
15:13 silbe bernie: ok. let's tackle o-o-b first, though. Working image first, browser second.
15:13 dirakx icaritox: we should help lucian then. browse is a critical activity.
15:14 bernie silbe: confucius' wisdom
15:14 :-)
15:14 dfarning thanks
15:14 bernie -> chorse
15:14 silbe bernie: ;)
15:14 bernie chores
15:14 silbe bernie: have fun <g>
15:14 icaritox dirakx, +1
15:14 dfarning silbe are you done moving + paper?
15:15 dirakx goes away.
15:15 satellitXO15 has quit IRC
15:16 alsroot icaritox: actually, there is no need in "build" packages, it will looks jsut "sweets commit" in your sugar directory. but this still is ongoing work, I hope to hope ready-to-use sdk version to show it for during the sugar camp in motevideo
15:17 *to have
15:17 icaritox alsroot, nice!
15:17 silbe dfarning: we signed the contract yesterday, so the most pressing issues on that front are done. Didn't get much time to work on the paper, though, since a cold (or maybe a side effect of the vaccination, I'm not sure) more or less knocked me out for more than two days. :-/
15:17 icaritox alsroot, any pointer on building manually until then?
15:18 silbe, where are you relocated?
15:19 silbe dfarning: but I'll do AC work the next few days, starting with DX3 builds. Is there anything else you'd like me to make a priority?
15:19 dfarning silbe sorry about the cold:) while working with bernie this afternoon can you create a general todo list for the week and month.
15:19 silbe thanks
15:20 alsroot icaritox: well thats the problem, current packages were prepared in my local obs env (src debs) and built by quidam on trisquel build farms. I'm planing to setup this entirely env on SL servers soon..
15:21 silbe icaritox: just a few kms (Tübingen, Germany). We have to leave the dormitories since I'm about to graduate.
15:22 dfarning: sure, will do.
15:22 icaritox alsroot, ok maybe I'll try building some src debs, they accesible on trisquel servers?
15:22 lucian has missed the meeting, again :(
15:22 icaritox silbe, ah i thuoght you were relocating to py
15:22 dfarning silbe thanks.
15:22 icaritox :-D
15:22 dfarning lucian icaritox and dirakx had browse questions.
15:23 lucian btw good morning:)
15:23 lucian good "morning"
15:23 icaritox: dirakx: fire away
15:24 silbe icaritox: not yet, Bine (my gf) is still studying.
15:24 icaritox lucian, actually we discussed browse's "new tab" patches, but had no further questions
15:24 lucian icaritox: ok. the new tab ones are fine by themselves
15:25 icaritox lucian, i'll see if alsroot's sweets packages have new tab functionality but not sure
15:26 lucian icaritox: they may still crash, though
15:26 icaritox alsroot, also on start of sugar-emulator, my wifi drops, any ideas to fix that?
15:26 lucian is getting fed up with xulrunner weirdness
15:26 icaritox lucian, sympathy, its a complex project
15:26 alsroot icaritox: it is http://bazaar-download.sugarla[…]4.0/Ubuntu-10.04/ but this is totally auto generated stuff, the core is http://git.sugarlabs.org/sweets-distribution (patched glucose) and sweets, http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/P[…]/Core_development  (to make it useful even w/o any packaging, ie, from in your local env)
15:27 icaritox alsroot, I tried that but I always get an error
15:27 alsroot i'll tell you what it is
15:27 alsroot icaritox: actually, I'm just coding sweets..
15:27 icaritox "Unknown scheme in download URL 'git://git.sugarlabs.org/0sugar/sweets.git'"
15:28 alsroot icaritox: try to git clone it fom http://git.sugarlabs.org/sdk/sweets
15:28 icaritox alsroot, will do, thanks!
15:29 silbe icaritox: try deactivating the Ad Hoc auto-connect feature in jarabe.model.adhoc.AdHocManager.autoconnect()
15:29 icaritox silbe, thanks!
15:29 i learn so much here
15:30 thank you all then, I'll look into these
15:30 silbe icaritox: if that helps, feel free to submit a patch that adds a GConf switch to deactivate the AdHoc auto-connect feature, mentioning that without it sugar-emulator breaks your internet connection.
15:31 icaritox silbe, it'd be nice to have a sugar dev environment, that's why I want to build sweets
15:31 silbe icaritox: that's why it's called Sugar Learning Platform ;)
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15:32 icaritox good, thanks then I'll be around later
15:32 silbe icaritox: I can recommend sugar-jhbuild on Debian ;)
15:32 (but if sweets works better for you, use it!)
15:33 icaritox silbe, i'm on trisquel and quite happy but jhbuild has always been a pain
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15:37 alsroot icaritox: if you are trying to run sugar git sweets, you need to wait a bit, I'm restructuring it right now
15:37 silbe icaritox: in what way is jbhuild more of a pain than sweets? Just the lack of rebuilding packages broken by Ubuntu or anything else?
15:38 alsroot silbe: the core difference is in method, jhbuild is a subenv, sweets is per-package-not-so-env (like activities in ~/Activities)
15:43 silbe alsroot: how does it make working with it less of a pain than jhbuild?
15:45 alsroot silbe: the target for sweets is not having less pain in comapring w/ jhbuild, it is just fully functional pms for sugar (based on 0install)
15:46 so, jhbuild usecase is just one of several possible usecases
15:47 silbe alsroot: ok. I was interested in why jhbuild is a pain for icaritox - there might be some way to improve jhbuild to work better for him.
15:48 (and others, of course)
15:48 icaritox silbe, ah thanks I was away a sec
15:48 silbe, jhbuild is a pain for me because it has always been a mess with dependencies
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15:49 icaritox i'm away harvesting oranges for making juice for breakfast will leave machine on and look in from time to time
15:52 silbe icaritox: the nice thing about IRC is that you can chat synchronously if you want, but outside of formal meetings most people don't mind if you're half-AFK. :)
15:52 icaritox: what problem were you having with jhbuild re. dependencies, and in what way is sweets better?
16:06 icaritox silbe, sweets is not necesarily better but proper packages shuold be - I just want a way to hack on something and have debs built to deploy - i havent tested jhbuild lately, last dependency problem had something with python-xklavier and also something about xulrunner
16:08 silbe icaritox: python-xklavier and xulrunner are a PITA on all systems :-/
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16:09 silbe icaritox: fortunately you can just ignore python-xklavier unless you need the "select keyboard layout from Sugar control panel" feature (most people don't).
16:11 icaritox: Browse (based on xulrunner) will eventually get replaced by Surf (based on webkit), but that takes a lot of work and time.
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16:23 icaritox silbe, btw I read your thread on sugar upstream - i agree 100% we need to start using sugar ourselves
16:29 silbe icaritox: thanks :)
16:30 icaritox: assuming you don't already use Sugar most of the time: what do you consider the most important missing piece? Why don't you work inside Sugar yet?
16:31 (there are more than enough reasons, I'm interested in which ones you care about most)
16:32 icaritox silbe, one reason atm is task switching (alt tab is broken) and also software launching (not all sw I use is sugarized...)
16:32 silbe, so better integration of non sugar sw
16:32 especially a launch affordance
16:33 f.i. i cant recognize generic circle icons, perhaps regular icons can appear for non sugarized apps
16:36 silbe icaritox: personally I'm using metacity for the window management tasks. I've configured it so that Win (Grab on XO) + Cursor Left/Right cycles through the windows. Much faster (no Frame pop-up/down) and easier to type than using Alt+(Shift+)Tab.
16:37 icaritox: something like https://patchwork.sugarlabs.org/patch/303/ ?
16:38 icaritox silbe, reading the description yes
16:38 silbe, I'd love to have a setup where I can pull patches like these
16:39 [and then make trisquel packages]
16:41 runs sugar-jhbuild and crosses fingers
16:42 silbe icaritox: good luck. I'll try to rebase the patch in the meantime.
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16:54 icaritox silbe, come to think about it, access to the filesystem from the journal would be awesome
16:54 i love the journal but disagree on hiding the filesystem
16:57 silbe icaritox: we already have that for "additional" mount points (I don't know what the exact logic is, but it at least shows all my NFS mounts). But since we only show the file name, not the path, you might be happier with one of the several activities that let you explore the file system.
17:01 icaritox: personally I'm working from the CLI most of the time (Win+t opens a new xterm for me inside Sugar - the Terminal activity is awesome, but unfortunately much too slow), so I tend to need the other direction. datastore-fuse (http://git.sugarlabs.org/datastore-fuse) works, but takes a lot of time to start (with a large enough Journal) and has at least one bug I haven't managed to figure out yet.
17:03 icaritox silbe, i'll try datastore-fuse thanks
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17:53 lucian would rather have more metadata in FSs than a journal
17:54 silbe icaritox: finished rebasing: https://patchwork.sugarlabs.org/patch/717/ . You can use "wget -O - https://patchwork.sugarlabs.org/patch/717/mbox/ | git am -" to apply the patch.
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17:55 satellit-gn3 here is Xchat on gnome3
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17:57 silbe lucian: I'd love to see some "mainstream" open source project starting to use extended attributes. I'm not holding my breath, though. Like with SSL, the technology to build something better has been there for about a decade now, but almost nobody uses it (in a better way).
17:57 lucian silbe: well, kde4 has loads of metadata
17:57 they have their own datastore as well, though
17:58 silbe lucian: also the file system still exposes the user to a hierarchical layout. That's great for computers, but not for users.
17:58 lucian silbe: that's where i disagree
17:59 the only way to get the same power with a nicer UI is hierarchical tags, imo
18:05 silbe lucian: some users work well with hierarchical presentation. Some cope well with it. Some get totally lost. In my experience the order I gave matches the order of "computer wizards" to "regular user". Check out http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/v[…]oi=10.1.1.13.6932 for some research in this area.
18:05 lucian hmm
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