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| 13:02 | geirea | pflores_: ping |
| 13:03 | walterbender: ping | |
| 13:03 | pflores_ | geirea: pong |
| 13:03 | walterbender | good morning |
| 13:03 | geirea | good morning |
| 13:03 | pflores_ | hi! |
| 13:03 | walterbender | how are the twins? |
| 13:04 | pflores_ | good! i have facundo inmy lap right now |
| 13:04 | so I may write a bit slow :-/ | |
| 13:04 | walterbender | I suppose that they are still a bit young for Turtle Art :) |
| 13:04 | pflores_ | haha! |
| 13:04 | yeah I guess | |
| 13:06 | walterbender | so gentlemen, what is the agenda for this morning? |
| 13:06 | pflores_ | are you in Boston now? |
| 13:06 | walterbender | yes... |
| 13:06 | pflores_ | I have 2 topics |
| 13:06 | 1. Code sprint | |
| 13:06 | walterbender | and the first signs of spring are here |
| 13:06 | pflores_ | 2. Summit program group |
| 13:06 | cool | |
| 13:07 | geirea: any other topics? | |
| 13:07 | geirea | no, that? fine |
| 13:07 | pflores_ | ok |
| 13:07 | #topic 1. Code sprint | |
| 13:07 | walterbender | I'd like to add the idea of lightening talks as well |
| 13:08 | pflores_ | ok. 3. lightening talks |
| 13:08 | walterbender | before we begin, one point that needs clarifying in my mind: |
| 13:08 | Are we discussing the Ceibal Jam event, Sugar Camp, or both as one and the same? | |
| 13:08 | geirea | good question |
| 13:08 | pflores_ | well, I think that's exactly the point |
| 13:09 | We have a number of great developers comming to eduJAM: alsroot, bernie, tch, you guys... | |
| 13:09 | So we think it would be best to do the code sprint here right after the summit | |
| 13:10 | the question: is it possible? | |
| 13:10 | walterbender | so the edusprint is 5-7 May? |
| 13:10 | and the idea would be to code sprint the 8-9th? | |
| 13:11 | pflores_ | yeah, or maybe a bit longer |
| 13:11 | alsroot | hopes to have ready-to-use sdk for end of april, so it should be really useful to present it there |
| 13:11 | walterbender | It may be difficult for people to get away for so long... but given the distance some of us will be traveling, it also makes sense to stay a bit. |
| 13:12 | geirea | even a one-day code sprint (sunday) would be useful imo |
| 13:12 | walterbender | geirea: yes... especially if we do some up-front work |
| 13:12 | geirea | not as a substitute to a complete sugar camp |
| 13:13 | walterbender | but I find a couple of days better than one since you get a chance for overnight reflection |
| 13:14 | geirea | also, tickets are generally cheaper mid-week |
| 13:15 | walterbender | geirea: a big consideration for some of us... |
| 13:15 | pflores_ | for instance, cjb told adam he would come if there's a code sprint of 4 days or similar |
| 13:15 | geirea | during the edujam event we are also planning a sugar-specific track |
| 13:16 | pflores_ | other AC developers may also be able to stay for some days |
| 13:16 | geirea | in parallel with a more basic "starting to code your activities" track |
| 13:17 | pflores_ | alsroot: great! |
| 13:17 | walterbender | maybe it would help if you guys laid out the current agenda for the CeibalJam event |
| 13:17 | geirea | so the sprint would not start on sunday |
| 13:18 | just a proposal for the agenda: http://ceibaljam.org/drupal/?q=node/1106 | |
| 13:19 | (sorry it's spanish) this one also: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/U[…]mmit_2011#Program | |
| 13:20 | walterbender | .es is fine. |
| 13:21 | There seems to be room in the Friday agenda for a Sugar-Camp lightening talks session. | |
| 13:21 | and perhaps the hackers can break away from the Saturday agenda to start the code sprint? | |
| 13:21 | geirea | walterbender: what do you mean by lightening? |
| 13:21 | walterbender | and code until Monday... leave on Tuesday? |
| 13:22 | geirea: 5 minute talks to introduce a new idea | |
| 13:22 | pflores_ | I wouldn't reduce the unconference |
| 13:22 | walterbender | geirea: or revisit an existing topic, e.g., introspection |
| 13:22 | pflores_ | I mean, I would start the sprint on sunday |
| 13:22 | walterbender | pflores_: what are the goals of the unconference? |
| 13:23 | pflores_ | is the problem that all activities may get too long? |
| 13:23 | geirea | walterbender: the unconference was intended to do something similar to the lightening |
| 13:23 | walterbender | maybe we could swap Friday and Saturday? |
| 13:23 | I don't think the hackers need to attend 'how to write a Sugar activity' | |
| 13:24 | and the lightening talks could then be part of the unconference. | |
| 13:24 | pflores_ | walterbender: To have spaces for discussing important issues arisen from deployments and the rest of the summit |
| 13:25 | walterbender | OK. seems like we need to be sequential, not parallel |
| 13:25 | pflores_ | walterbender: 'how to write a Sugar activity' is a separate track |
| 13:26 | geirea | we want the local community to get involved in developing activities and sugar itself, i wouldn't like to have the advanced hackers completely separated from the new ones |
| 13:26 | walterbender | geirea: well, most of the core Sugar hackers don't write activities :P |
| 13:26 | geirea: maybe it is time that they did :P | |
| 13:28 | pflores_ | I think we can discuss the agenda to make it better, but the biggest imo is: does it make sense to make a code sprint right after the summit? |
| 13:29 | walterbender | pflores_: since it doesn't seem to make sense to do it concurrently, then yes, right afterward. |
| 13:30 | geirea | having all the developers in the same place at the same time it would be a waste not to do it |
| 13:30 | and also it would be a great inspiration for our local developers | |
| 13:31 | the question is whether visitors can afford to stay a couple of days | |
| 13:31 | and what can we do to make it worthwhile | |
| 13:31 | pflores_ | +1 |
| 13:32 | I think many developers will be "heating engines" (is the expression correct?) during the summit | |
| 13:32 | geirea | warming up? |
| 13:33 | walterbender | I presume we can find inexpensive lodging (although I assume pflores_ no longer has a couch available :) ) |
| 13:33 | but the question is time away from day jobs, etc. | |
| 13:33 | pflores_ | walterbender: I don't know if I understood you well in last chat we had: Is olpc-a willing to support somehow the code sprint? |
| 13:33 | geirea | yes, we can find couches |
| 13:34 | walterbender | pflores_: I don't know. I can ask. (I hope I can convince them to send me to .uy, for example.) |
| 13:34 | pflores_ | walterbender: yes I still have a couch but I think it's already reserved by Christoph ;) |
| 13:35 | walterbender: may they be interested in appearing as sponsors? | |
| 13:36 | walterbender | pflores_: If OLPC F sends cjb, I presume that they are sponsoring as well... |
| 13:38 | geirea | can we agree to poll the main developers for their availability for the code sprint? |
| 13:38 | walterbender | pflores_: there may be other 'sponsors' as well... for example, if collabora were able to send rgs... |
| 13:38 | geirea: yes... we already have a webpage in the Sugar Labs wiki asking about availability | |
| 13:38 | pflores_ | walterbender: I mean something like: if they pay for sending x attendees to the summit/sprint (x=5?), they have presence in the summit announcements, a roll-up, etc., whatever |
| 13:38 | walterbender | geirea: but we should modify it to reflect this discussion |
| 13:39 | pflores_: 5 is a lot | |
| 13:39 | esp. from the US and Europe | |
| 13:40 | pflores_ | ok, so you think they may give a 1K sponsorship but not a 5K sponsorship |
| 13:41 | (BTW collabra seems to be a good place to ask for sponsorship) | |
| 13:41 | walterbender | pflores_: I think it is worth asking for 5K, sure... but I am just suggesting, it is a lot of money. |
| 13:43 | pflores_ | ok, maybe we can write them an invitation for being sponsors in different levels |
| 13:44 | Would it make sense to make a "short" sprint of 2 days and for the ones that can stay have 2 extra "bonus track" days? | |
| 13:44 | walterbender | sure... but I doubt that will really matter to any of these particular organizations |
| 13:44 | pflores_ | walterbender: ok :-/ |
| 13:45 | walterbender | pflores_: I think we should do S-M and ask that people arrive on R to be here for the EduJam as well... |
| 13:45 | and some will start early | |
| 13:45 | but S-M would be fully devoted to coding | |
| 13:45 | geirea | walterbender: what infraestructure do you think we would need for the code sprint? |
| 13:45 | walterbender | but we could poll about the ability to stay longer |
| 13:46 | geirea: AC and Internet and a coffee shop near by | |
| 13:46 | geirea: maybe a white board | |
| 13:46 | and/or a video projector | |
| 13:47 | pflores_ | walterbender great, we have many places where we could do that... |
| 13:47 | geirea | round tables better than classroom-like chairs? |
| 13:47 | walterbender | geirea: maybe arrange tables in a big circle so everyone is facing in... |
| 13:47 | tables are better than classroom chairs | |
| 13:48 | geirea | ok i think we can get a good place |
| 13:49 | pflores_ | cool |
| 13:49 | geirea | we have only 10 minutes, let's talk about the program committee |
| 13:49 | pflores_ | walterbender: do you have plans for making another code sprint soon? |
| 13:50 | walterbender | pflores_: ideally, we should aim for once every 6 months |
| 13:50 | pflores_ | ok |
| 13:50 | #topic 2. Summit program group | |
| 13:50 | walterbender | we have a standing offer to do one in Miami |
| 13:50 | has access to lots of couches in Miami | |
| 13:50 | pflores_ | walterbender: maybe for doing it in the 2nd half of the year? |
| 13:51 | geirea | miami is the plane baricenter of latiin america |
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| 13:51 | walterbender | pflores_: we may as well wait for the weather to turn bad :) |
| 13:51 | pflores_ | haha! |
| 13:51 | ok | |
| 13:51 | About the summit program | |
| 13:52 | whe have a sketch of the agenda, now we should work on details, for that we proposed a group | |
| 13:52 | Us 3 + Andr | |
| 13:53 | I think the best would be to coordinate to meet all together on IRC | |
| 13:53 | walterbender | I still think that if it is an EduJam, we should include some teachers |
| 13:53 | Guzman is a very motivated Physics teacher in Montevideo | |
| 13:53 | or Rozamel | |
| 13:53 | pflores_ | EDU stands for "Encuentro Desarrolladores Uruguay" :) |
| 13:54 | geirea | walterbender: in our experience it was very hard to establish an effective dialogue with teachers :( |
| 13:54 | i mean, for working | |
| 13:54 | walterbender | poor choice of acronym as it is very misleading in English |
| 13:55 | let's try taking a risk with Guzman. He is local to you guys, which should help. | |
| 13:55 | geirea | no, we wanted to be about education software |
| 13:55 | pflores_ | I think we should hear their needs, maybe talking in a separate group |
| 13:56 | geirea | walterbender: the problem here in uruguay is that if the event is about education you have a hundred teachers coming an sitting and asking for a certificate, it's been very hard for us to manage |
| 13:56 | walterbender | geirea: if we want to talk about educational software and we want to exchange ideas from deployments, then not involving teachers is a big mistake, IMHO |
| 13:57 | geirea: I am not suggesting we make this a teacher conference. | |
| 13:57 | pflores_ | In our experience, getting all together leads to a lot of extra work for speaking the same language. A few people, like Rosamel have found good ways for interacting effectively |
| 13:57 | geirea | walterbender: agreed, i'm not saying we don't want to, i'm saying we've been unable to do it |
| 13:57 | walterbender | geirea: but I am suggesting we get some enthusiastic and progressive teachers involved |
| 13:58 | pflores_ | So I suggest to have a different space to hear their input for the summit program |
| 13:58 | walterbender | and if we don't tap into the local deployment experience of .uy, why bother to travel all that way? |
| 13:58 | pflores_ | walterbender: we'll have ceibal team experience, as well as many other deployment's |
| 13:59 | walterbender | pflores_: perhaps. I find it a very different discussion getting feedback from a developer vs getting feedback from a teacher |
| 14:00 | geirea | walterbender: this is an issue that's central and has generated a lot of heated debate, how do you get useful feedback from a teacher? |
| 14:00 | walterbender | geirea: you don't do it by segregating them |
| 14:01 | pflores_ | walterbender: we've worked for 3 years in ceibalJAM and NEVER segregated them |
| 14:01 | walterbender | pflores_: "So I suggest to have a different space to hear their input" |
| 14:01 | geirea | we agree teachers shouldn't be left out, they always come to our events |
| 14:01 | we spent a lot of effort in trying to have their input | |
| 14:01 | and we failed | |
| 14:02 | pflores_ | yes of course the communication channels with teachers should be different sometimes |
| 14:02 | walterbender | geirea: I was making a modest suggestion to invite some teachers to the program committee and it seems to have touched a nerve. |
| 14:03 | geirea | walterbender: well, it's a big issue for us, source of frustration and burn out |
| 14:03 | so yeah, it touched a nerve | |
| 14:03 | walterbender | geirea: and perhaps one we should address head-on in the summit |
| 14:03 | maybe a session on how to engage teachers? | |
| 14:03 | geirea | walterbender: there's probably no better discussion to have |
| 14:04 | walterbender | geirea: but my point is, it is perhaps a good strategy to ask some 'sympathetic' teachers to help plan that discussion |
| 14:05 | geirea: and there are some very very good teachers in .uy | |
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| 14:05 | pflores_ | I agree we should have this session. |
| 14:06 | and we could plan it with some teachers like Guzman and Rosamel | |
| 14:07 | geirea | we have to be careful so it doesn't turn into a teacher catharsis about the lack of training and critics to the educational institution |
| 14:07 | walterbender | geirea: agreed. we need to focus on communication with the community. this is not about the teacher relationship with LATU |
| 14:08 | geirea | walterbender: LATU and ANEP, they have a strong hierarchical culture and teachers don't have an outlet for these discussions |
| 14:09 | walterbender | has a dream that every teacher would discover IRC |
| 14:09 | pflores_ | walterbender: +1 |
| 14:10 | maybe we developers should invent an easy, usable and cool enough IRC system for teachers | |
| 14:12 | walterbender | pflores_: our just make the default channel on the IRC activty be #sugar-maestro-es |
| 14:12 | pflores_ | which would require a lot of development work and of course, teachers feedback in an iterative process. However, according to our experience, it's not effective just putting all together a bunch of school teachers and a bunch of developers in the same room: communication problems take away any productivity |
| 14:13 | walterbender: could be a good start, but doesn't scale | |
| 14:14 | So, for not loosing the focus of our discussion, I propose: | |
| 14:15 | 1. Make a "teacher's session". I could talk to Rosamel and ask for ideas. Maybe some of you can talk to Guzman. Then we could see which next steps to take to make it effective | |
| 14:16 | 2. Coordinate a "program committee" IRC meeting for one of these days soon | |
| 14:16 | walterbender | pflores_: I'll ask Guzman. Presumable on Saturday, as I expect they need to teach on Friday? |
| 14:16 | geirea | the teacher's session should be really about communication between teachers and developers |
| 14:16 | pflores_ | walterbender: No, they're not working this week because of Carnival |
| 14:17 | geirea: +1 | |
| 14:18 | walterbender | OK. I'll email Guzman. when do you want to meet re the program? |
| 14:19 | geirea | friday morning? |
| 14:19 | pflores_ | geirea: I think aa can't |
| 14:19 | Thursday afternoon? | |
| 14:20 | walterbender | pflores_: works for me, as long as it is afternoon EST (so after 15 for you) |
| 14:21 | pflores_ | 19 Uy time - 16 EST? |
| 14:22 | walterbender: could you stand an IRC in spanish? | |
| 14:22 | geirea | i might be a bit late but you can start without me |
| 14:22 | pflores_ | (I don't know how is it your spanish at this point) |
| 14:23 | walterbender | pflores_: /join #sugar-meeting-es |
| 14:23 | pflores_: spanish is fine :) | |
| 14:24 | pflores_ | great! |
| 14:24 | aa: podr | |
| 14:25 | geirea | guys, i have to go, we'll talk tomorrow then |
| 14:25 | pflores_ | ok! |
| 14:25 | geirea | bye |
| 14:26 | pflores_ | I'll send an invitation mail to the committee |
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| 19:12 | aa | walterbender, pflores_: sorry for missing the meeting |
| 19:12 | walterbender | aa: np |
| 19:12 | aa | power has been out all day :/ |
| 19:12 | walterbender | we meet again tomorrow afternoon |
| 19:12 | aa | great, I'll be here |
| 19:12 | reads backlog | |
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| 21:35 | dogi | <meeting> ciao italia |
| 21:35 | <meeting> dogi meeting mk8_ valhalla | |
| 21:35 | <meeting> ciao italia | |
| 21:36 | meeting does not bring this to other channels | |
| 21:36 | meeting | dogi: Error: "does" is not a valid command. |
| 21:36 | dogi | lol |
| 21:36 | bingo meeting | |
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