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#sugar-meeting, 2011-03-05

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 walterbender seems we are off topic for SLOBs... and it is 7PM EST, so let's end meeting and continue the technical discussion in #sugar??
00:00 alsroot cjb: -1 for "rewrite" activigties, ie, for sugar should not be tied to only one lang,frmawork,etc. if will say "use what you prefer", it should be more sugar way
00:00 bernie cjb: that is, as long as there's only one big api rather than an intricate web of interdependent apis
00:00 walterbender: ok. shall we discuss the website?
00:00 walterbender bernie: we have a call on Tuesday, I think
00:00 icarito bernie, that's what I like about TA (Titanium Appcelerator) you have a single api from JS, python, ruby and PHP
00:01 bernie walterbender: ah ok. great :)
00:01 icarito walterbender, ok what about i18n?
00:01 walterbender bernie: so we'll hopefully have something tangible to discuss.
00:01 icarito how can we improve the situation
00:01 i feel this is urgent, sorry to have brought the dicsussion so technical
00:02 walterbender icarito: at the basic level, we need to find someone with some technical chops who is willing to take it on
00:02 icarito for instance we'd like to complete the AY and QU translations and integrate them
00:02 walterbender icarito: I don't think it involves a lot of programming, but solid technical adminsitration skills
00:02 cjb alsroot: I don't understand.  You're saying that people should use whatever language they prefer, but that we shouldn't rewrite anything?  Those are contradictory.
00:02 walterbender bernie: is that your take?
00:02 bernie icarito: i'd like to try it out, just out of curiosity
00:03 alsroot cjb: I got your "reqwrite" for rewriting activities from python to whatever..
00:03 cjb alsroot: yeah
00:04 icarito ok so should we bring the i18n crisis up on the ML?
00:04 bernie walterbender: sometimes i've seen translations made with SSI (server side includes). it has the advantage of keeping the html free of code
00:04 alsroot cjb: I mean, if people like something different from python and will to rewrite activities, it is ok, but we need to call "lets rewire sugar in.." but "lets add .. support"
00:05 walterbender icarito: did cjl's email go to the lists or just SLOBs?
00:05 alsroot s/but we need to/but we don't need to/
00:05 bernie walterbender: if translation demands us to use anything more than plain html, then we'd better switch to a CMS
00:05 dirakx we are working in a new VM to do a pootle upgrade/migration to latest pootle/translatetoolkit/django, I hope that improves things.
00:05 icarito walterbender, i think it went to slobs members directly
00:05 bernie walterbender: dogi wanted to use pootle for translations, but that would require switching to gettext... i don't think it's feasible
00:05 walterbender bernie: I think our immediate problem is i18n for Sugar and Sugar activities
00:05 icarito dirakx, I'd like to help with that
00:05 walterbender bernie: but if we can address the website at the same time, all the better
00:06 JT_4sugar bernie, Website call 12pm EST Tues March 8th on Skype Anyone else we should have on call? On call-myself, Sean, Walter, Christian Marc, Marc-Seso, Prof. Jacobs and student, Gary Martin?
00:06 icarito can we plan an action for i18n?
00:06 CanoeBerry ironically i just missed the last hour as CeibalJAM etc just explained to me the details of their SugarCamp++ May 5-7
00:06 icarito this shouldnt go without one
00:06 dirakx but i guess that we should also ask for suggestions about how to improve..workflow somewaht.
00:06 icarito dirakx, +1
00:06 bernie walterbender: ah, you mean plain Pootle administration? we met sayamindu last week, who helped me and dirakx fix a problem in the old pootle
00:06 cjb CanoeBerry: do you think we should try to schedule a SugarCamp alongside it?
00:06 bernie walterbender: i'm not sure what the current status is... dirakx would know better
00:06 CanoeBerry that's CeibalJAM's plan
00:06 dirakx old pootle is working with some minor glitches...
00:07 cjb it's really inconvenient for OLPC engineering but it otherwise seems like a good idea
00:07 CanoeBerry: shouldn't it be.. our plan?
00:07 dirakx I've been working with cjl to fix bad areas.
00:07 CanoeBerry yes
00:07 cjb I mean, a SugarCamp run by Sugar Labs
00:07 okay.  so it sounds like I should just work on trying to get us to not be in Taipei around May 5th.
00:08 which currently seems fairly impossible to avoid, but stranger things have happened.
00:08 dirakx but i haven't seen cjl email..so his complaints maybe both technicall and about workflow.
00:08 walterbender alas, I need to disappear in a minute. Am I the one who has to end meeting or can it be done by anyone now?
00:08 cjb walterbender: I think you'd better do it, we're about done anyway
00:08 icarito also everybody I'd like to announce to SLOBS that I got hired on a probationary basis by AC this month for working with dirakx on activities
00:08 walterbender dirakx: I will ask cjl to send his email to sugar-devel
00:08 dirakx walterbender: great.
00:08 icarito great
00:08 walterbender but there is at a minimum a workflow issue
00:09 CanoeBerry announcement of May 5-7 will be tomorrow -- i'm trying to get a draft of the announcement we / SLOBs / other can look over
00:09 homunq_ has quit IRC
00:09 dirakx anyway..we are having hands on it.
00:09 walterbender dirakx: great.
00:09 bernie dirakx: what email?
00:09 walterbender OK. I am sorry, but my family is calling...
00:09 cjb icarito: cool, congrats.
00:09 walterbender bernie: the email from Chris Leonard about i18n
00:09 dirakx bernie: a cjl email to SLOBS.
00:09 walterbender so I need to end meeting...
00:09 bernie walterbender: i must have missed it
00:10 walterbender #end-meeting
00:10 meeting Meeting ended Sat Mar  5 00:10:04 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
00:10 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-04T23:00:51.html
00:10 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]11-03-04T23:00:51
00:10 icarito cjb, thanks I welcome the opportunity to code again
00:10 CanoeBerry Uruguay's event will include a 5-day presummit "Conozco Uruguay" component for those who want to understand Ceibal/Sugar/OLPC better on the ground in Uruguay.
00:10 bernie walterbender: ah, Translation Team Report. I hadn't read it yeat
00:10 yet
00:10 CanoeBerry Apr 30 - Thu May 5 I believe.
00:10 Sat Apr 30 - Thu May 5 I believe.
00:11 dirakx is now known as dirakx_away
00:11 bernie CanoeBerry: cool.
00:11 CanoeBerry bernie: is yr phone still broke?
00:11 bernie CanoeBerry: would an hypothetical AC Meeting / Sugar Camp held in parallel with Conozco Uruguay sound like a good idea?
00:12 CanoeBerry: no, they repaired it for free!
00:12 CanoeBerry Cool, answer it :)
00:12 bernie: is May 5-7 long enough for a summer camp?
00:12 cjb CanoeBerry: I thought the CeibalJam was May 5-7
00:13 CanoeBerry Yeah.  The focus of the event is precisely software development.
00:13 cjb so, presumably we shouldn't overlap with it
00:14 so that SugarCamp attendees can hang out at CeibalJam too.  or maybe we should.  I dunno.
00:14 CanoeBerry Seems like the only catch (that I can see) is price.
00:14 Montevideo flights are $900 roundtrip from NY.
00:14 But other than that this would seem to be a perfect opportunity to merge Sugar Camp w/ CeibalJam & South American allies.
00:15 The 5 presummit days will embrace more teachers.
00:15 cjb ouch, yeah, expensive
00:15 and Expedia says $1400 here
00:15 from BOS
00:16 dirakx_away is now known as dirakx
00:17 CanoeBerry I'm talking to South Americans in coming days to see how many can come May 5-7 if not some of the prior days as well.  True, I don't speak Spanish, but so be it :)
00:17 dirakx icarito: sure..I'll chat with you re: pootle.
00:17 CanoeBerry Gringo Tax is $1000 but perhaps necessary. (airfare)
00:20 bernie CanoeBerry: it's not ringing though
00:20 CanoeBerry: ah, it's in the coat!
00:23 CanoeBerry eat yet?
00:24 bernie ^
00:31 bernie CanoeBerry: nope
00:32 CanoeBerry: ah, yes
00:32 CanoeBerry: tomorrow the pikans will go to an arcade. wanna join us?
00:32 CanoeBerry: it's all electricity and no sport. you'll sure love it.
00:43 tabs has quit IRC
01:03 cjb bernie: hey where's the arcade?
01:03 that sounds fun
01:04 bernie cjb: forwarding you the email
01:04 cjb: (from pika social)
01:04 cjb thanks
01:05 bernie: interesting
01:05 bernie cjb: fuck school, let's go to the arcade!!
01:05 cjb I thought it might have been this one:
01:06 http://nocrisisyet.blogspot.co[…]arcade-magic.html
01:06 but I don't think it has the things the mail mentions
01:07 http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming[…]hampshire_called/
01:07 bernie cjb: they say it's 20mins by car from pika
01:07 cjb http://imgur.com/a/AEIaK
01:07 yeah, that's closer than this one
01:07 but I want to play Gauntlet :)
01:09 bernie cjb: i loved gauntlet
01:10 cjb: first 4-player game!
01:10 cjb maybe we should have a separate Acetarium arcade trip then :)
01:11 bernie cjb: i will have forever gauntlet's level change jingle burnt in my head
01:12 cjb: sure, let's give pika some serious competition from the 8bit generation!
01:12 speaking of which... i've been playing with the arduino. cool! i wish i had this toy when i was still in school
01:14 i would have fatto forca (done the forkpitch) from school a lot more often...
01:15 cjb: haha, we italians have dozens of expressions to say skip school: http://becomingitalianwordbywo[…]ian-language.html
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13:55 bernie anyone?
13:58 satellit_ bernie Hi ? anyone..
14:02 bernie m_anish_afk: ping?
14:04 Nubae <Nubae!~Nubae@115.159.20.95.dynamic.jazztel.es> has joined #sugar-meeting
14:10 bernie Nubae: nobody is showing up today :)
14:10 Nubae: shall we start to talk about the server, then?
14:15 icarito <icarito!~icaro@190.143.82.99> has joined #sugar-meeting
14:15 icarito hello
14:15 i'm sorry i'm late
14:15 i'm at the car mechanic :-)
14:16 bernie icarito: hello. we did not start yet :)
14:16 icarito_web <icarito_web!~webchat@jita.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting
14:16 icarito yay
14:17 bernie, i take the opportunity
14:17 bernie icarito: waiting for m_anish_afk and tch....
14:18 icarito i switched laptops and am missing my .ssh pub key to log into sunjammer
14:18 i'd like to add a new ssh key
14:18 bernie, can i send it to you?
14:18 its to get that fancy IRC proxy thingy
14:21 tch <tch!~tch@196.49.217.201.res.adsl.dyn.click.com.py> has joined #sugar-meeting
14:21 icarito ah i remember
14:21 to the systems list?
14:23 Nubae sorry folks, food just came... I had to put it away....
14:23 scrolls up
14:23 ah ok... well  I spoke to icarito earlier today/yeserday?
14:24 bernie this might sounds interesting to u too...
14:24 I thought about installing a statusnet/identi.ca personlised server for us
14:24 to manage blog/microblog stuff
14:25 just a way that everytime for example a new article arrives in planet, a robot could retweet or redent the message
14:26 so people could have a one stop show for being able to find out articles/news/anouncements/updates/eleaeses that are spread
14:26 thoguh one point of contact
14:26 probably sugar.ca
14:27 by running it through chrome it could translate automatically quite well into any lingo
14:27 bernie tch: hello there
14:28 Nubae: cool. if you have time to work on this, ask dogi for a vm where you can setup everything
14:28 Nubae we control membership quite well, membership grows very fast (based on membershio) we jave i real identica
14:28 whatcha thnk?
14:28 bernie tch: shall we wait a little longer for m_anish?
14:28 Nubae I would be happy to install/admin it
14:29 but dont have time for day to day, I was hoping icarito would do that
14:29 he expressed interest befrore
14:29 he runs somosazucar.org
14:30 icarito_web has quit IRC
14:30 Nubae aooyj esrvice.
14:30 om tegreat service meant to tyor
14:31 bernie Nubae:  sounds like a good idea, somosazucar is already a community-oriented resource
14:31 Nubae right, proven to work
14:31 icarito has quit IRC
14:31 bernie Nubae, tch, icarito, dirakx: shall we start now?
14:32 Nubae we cnan link it to te identi.ca where we hae #suigar and are like 5 admis
14:32 tch bernie, Nubae: Hello guys!
14:33 i got a message that the meeting was cancelled
14:33 Nubae tch what?A
14:33 where fom?
14:34 tch dextrose list
14:34 Nubae Can'pp ;-?
14:34 bernie tch: ah, found
14:34 tch: damn, i hadn't noticed it
14:34 tch: it arrived at 5:30am :-))
14:35 tch bernie: haha, I didn't see it either until (i woke up) recently!
14:36 btw, I got an invitation from Flisol to give a talk about sugar
14:37 bernie tch: when shall we reschedule?
14:37 tch bernie: monday should be fine, i think
14:37 bernie Nubae: we could still talk about the server now... it's just me and you, anyway.
14:38 icarito <icarito!~icarito@190.143.82.197> has joined #sugar-meeting
14:38 icaritox <icaritox!~icaro@190.143.82.197> has joined #sugar-meeting
14:38 icaritox just test drove with the mechanic and could not get the car to make that ugly sound
14:38 bernie tch: monday wouldn't work for me... i work from 9am to 6pm
14:39 icaritox still waiting for anish & tch?
14:39 Nubae, great talk yesterday
14:39 Nubae i havent checked mail yet was so busy all morning
14:39 icaritox lucian, u here?
14:39 tch icarito: Hola!
14:40 icaritox hello
14:40 Nubae still can we talk a little with those present
14:40 tch icaritox: ^
14:40 Nubae bernie and rest
14:40 icaritox tch hola, de paraguay? mucho gusto!
14:40 bernie icaritox: well, i guess we're no longer meeting today :-(
14:40 Nubae please check new intro to server page
14:40 tell me what u think
14:40 bernie Nubae: url?
14:40 icaritox aqui estamos en bogot
14:41 are we majority spanish speakers?
14:41 tch icaritox: si, igualmente!
14:41 Nubae dextrose/server
14:41 icaritox :-D
14:41 Nubae si creo que todos por lo menos entendemos
14:41 tch is es que bernie cuenta como hispano-hablante, si
14:41 Nubae verdad bernie?
14:41 tch jaja
14:41 bernie icaritox, tch, Nubae: would sunday morning at 1500 URC (10am EST) work for you?
14:41 Nubae bernie en Español por favor
14:41 jaja  ;-)
14:42 bernie Nubae: si, comprendo todo y hablo tambien un poquito.
14:42 icaritox mama mia
14:42 lol
14:42 Nubae mama mia de mi vida... no sabia que hablae tambien
14:43 lucian icaritox: sorry, i was eating
14:43 Nubae entao quisto e coisa mas fasil
14:43 icaritox bernie, tenemos una pol
14:43 lucian, don't apologize, nice to meet you
14:44 bernie icaritox: no, si no puede no puede! :_)
14:44 Nubae: can you give me the url of the server page?
14:45 icaritox Nubae, eu nao falo portugues, disculpa :-D
14:45 bernie icaritox, tch, Nubae: how about monday at 2300 UTC (1800 EST)?
14:45 tch bernie: works for me
14:45 icaritox bernie, that time works thanks
14:45 bernie tch: silbe and alsroot might have problems meeting this time
14:46 lucian icaritox: nice to meet you as well, i guess
14:46 finds irc introductions odd
14:46 bernie lucian: hello
14:46 icaritox lucian, i say because I was reading your webified project
14:46 alsroot is here doesn't have any ideas about dextrose server, /me codes right now
14:46 icaritox and have used surf
14:47 alsroot *but
14:47 Nubae http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/D[…]r#Dextrose_Server
14:47 lucian icaritox: i see
14:47 bernie: hi
14:47 bernie lucian: have you tested Surf in Dextrose 3?
14:47 Nubae please guys read the intro
14:47 for the server stuff
14:47 lucian bernie: no, and it'll probably crash anyway
14:47 Nubae it was written for the every person in mind
14:47 would like fededback to see is it too complex,or not
14:48 lucian bernie: and it doesn't even support cookies. it desperately needs to move to py-gi
14:48 bernie lucian, alsroot: we're trying to reschedule the meeting. would Monday at 2300 UTC (1800 EST) work for you?
14:48 lucian bernie: and for that it needs sugar-toolkit with gi (or vala?)
14:49 icaritox lucian, actually i've grown interested in webified and surf because i've been playing with titanium which is a webkit desktop api
14:49 i wonder if we could have such an api
14:49 lucian icaritox: yeah, i know titanium
14:49 alsroot bernie: sure
14:49 lucian titanium and webified are quite different in scope
14:49 bernie lucian: that would be a useful project. a "sugar3" package based on pygi and gtk3
14:49 icaritox lucian, you mentioned on the wiki page
14:49 bernie lucian: and probably with the old classes removed
14:49 lucian bernie: yep. and with a clear separation between UI or non-UI
14:50 bernie lucian: maybe talk about this idea with silbe and erikos?
14:50 lucian bernie: could that meeting be a bit earlier? i have a lecture tuesday at 9
14:50 bernie Nubae: i'm reading the server page
14:50 tch m2
14:51 icaritox Nubae, this is the way the status.net desktop client is programmed http://status.net/wiki/Client
14:52 lucian, could we interest titanium in a sugar build target?
14:52 does that make sense?
14:52 lucian icaritox: i kinda doubt it, unless we did all the work
14:52 and the API is heavily tailored to traditional desktops
14:53 icaritox lucian, but they have a titanium mobile ( not sure if its free tho - if it isnt i'll stop )
14:53 lucian icaritox: yeah, it's free and open source
14:53 it's also heavily tailored (and even sectioned) for iPhone and Android
14:54 bernie Nubae: done reading.
14:54 lucian i'm using it for my dissertation, so i should know :)
14:54 icaritox lucian, if not directly titanium, an api with a webkit design / view + JS layer would be a hit
14:54 bernie Nubae: i have plenty of questions, ping me later when you're done talking with icarito
14:54 lucian icaritox: perhaps, yes. and i do think that titanium may be useful as a platform
14:54 but as it is, much of its API doesn't fit with Sugar
14:55 icaritox lucian, there are many more web developers than python coders
14:55 lucian icaritox: i know
14:55 bernie lucian: i can't drop off work before 6pm...
14:55 icaritox lucian, bernie - but you only need a few coders if all the view layer and UX is designed
14:55 lucian bernie: i see. then never mind, i'll miss the lecture
14:55 bernie lucian: sorry :-(
14:55 lucian bernie: it's alright
14:57 icaritox reading
14:57 bernie, sorry
15:02 dirakx http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YskjBkaC98Y
15:03 Nubae has quit IRC
15:03 icaritox dirakx, sent you patches for maze too
15:03 :-D
15:04 dirakx icarito great where are they?
15:04 icaritox i sent you a notice thru identi.ca - hold on
15:05 dirak its a merge request on git
15:05 http://git.sugarlabs.org/maze/[…]/merge_requests/1
15:05 dirakx, i'm relearning git
15:08 dirakx icaritox patch seems fine.
15:09 icaritox can you perharps do the toolbar thingy for all the actvities that gonzalo mentioned ?.
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15:30 Nubae bernie so what did u think?
15:31 needs to be polished plus my FAI work plugged in
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15:31 Nubae I know it sounds a bit harsh on devs... so I'll try to tone tha dwon
15:35 bernie Nubae: I agree with most of the principles
15:36 Nubae: shall we start talking about a technical roadmap?
15:40 Nubae: ping me when you come back. i'm going to grab some breakfast.
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19:41 m_anish bernie, i've been in my own world today :) , sorry for not attending the meeting, i thought dfarning canceled it
19:42 silbe hu? there was a meeting?
19:57 bernie m_anish: yeah, he did
19:58 silbe: this morning, at 1400 UTC
19:59 m_anish: he said that people were burnt out and needed some rest this week-end... do you know who he might have had in mind?
19:59 m_anish bernie, nope
20:00 bernie m_anish, silbe: are you ok with rescheduling for monday at 2300 UTC (1800 EST)?
20:00 satellit_ defarning sais "Rest and Personal/Family Time."
20:00 m_anish bernie, i'll have to check on that, will try to let you know by today evening
20:00 silbe bernie: but dfarning wrote that meeting was cancelled. Was that a different meeting?
20:01 satellit_ Dextrose] Dextrose Meeting Agenda Saturday 5 March 1400 UTC to lists
20:02 silbe bernie: that would be rather late for me, but I'll try to be awake (enough).
20:03 bernie silbe: yeah, i don't know why dfarning canceled it, but for me it's quite an annoyance because I won't be able to attend irc meetings during work days at a time which is convenient for people in your timezone
20:04 silbe: i have to live in a few minutes
20:06 silbe: we should find some time to discuss how to proceed with DX3... set a roadmap, a release schedule and, more important than anything else, a strategy for testing it in the field
20:06 silbe bernie: is there anything important to be discussed for this week that needs to happen in IRC?
20:07 bernie silbe: it could happen on the phone, but i don't think the mailing list is a good vehicle for the quick turnaround of the initial roadmap setting
20:07 silbe bernie: the release date is going to be about the same as for OLPC OS 11.2.0.
20:08 bernie silbe: unless, of course, one of us works on it independently. you, for example?
20:08 silbe: ah, yes... i wanted to ask this too. why are we doing this?
20:10 mchua is now known as mchua_afk
20:11 silbe bernie: not within the next few days, sorry. I'm currently working on a nasty data store bug, tomorrow is Design Team meeting (which tend to be pretty exhausting) and on Monday I hope to hear back whether we got accepted for the flat we applied for. And I really should start working on my final term paper, I don't have much time left...
20:11 m_anish dirakx, alsroot, silbe, logs of a flash meeting b/w me, tch, bernie yesterday http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]11-03-04T20:52:21 ... maybe we can build on it whenever we meet next
20:13 bernie silbe: I'm concerned about this because it makes dextrose become a trailer of OLPC OS... It would follow an upstream project rather than focusing on the deadlines set by deployments. In other words, it makes Dextrose seem like a pointless clone of SoaS.
20:14 silbe: also, the versioning scheme used by OLPC is obnoxious. what is 11.2.0? why isn't there an 11.1.0 too? Why did 10.1.3 happen in 2011? I can never remember the numbers...
20:15 silbe: Dextrose 3 is a nice name that sticks into people's memory. It's something you could market easily and without confusion. It also gives Dextrose an independent identity distinct from 11.2.0 or whatever.
20:15 (F11-0.84 was an equally bad name... I realized that later)
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