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#sugar-meeting, 2011-03-04

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20:45 bernie m_anish: ok, do you want it logged or informal?
20:45 m_anish: (i need to take my 5min typing break before we start)
20:46 m_anish informal for now
20:46 go ahead, take a break
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20:50 tch__ hmm my irc sucks
20:51 m_anish tch__, that's what u get for using ubuntu :P
20:51 tch__ m_anish: Well, i use fedora and ubuntu :P. And now I am in the "cloud"
20:52 bernie m_anish, tch__: ready for the battle :)
20:52 m_anish bernie, yep, bring it on
20:52 bernie #startmeeting
20:52 meeting Meeting started Fri Mar  4 20:52:21 2011 UTC. The chair is bernie. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:52 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
20:52 tch__ got my BFG rdy :)
20:52 bernie m_anish: you first?
20:52 m_anish bernie, ok.
20:53 If i understand correctly, we have ~9 months for dextrose-3 (or whatever the version number is gonna be)
20:53 between that we're gonna be making a release alongwith olpc's release happening in the next 4-6 months?
20:54 bernie m_anish: my sense is that we could release dextrose 3 within 3-4 months, given the current resources
20:55 m_anish: it's not clear, though, which customer will want to deploy it
20:55 m_anish anyway, for the next dextrose, besides stability, i want to focus on how sugar can be enhanced, so that it is used by teachers more proactively... (what i'm implying here is is we need to focus more on activities, talk with teachers)
20:55 bernie m_anish: what's the situation in py?
20:55 m_anish: very good point
20:55 m_anish bernie, well we're in testing in daniel ortellado, i've to talk with pacita as to when she wants to start flashing...
20:56 bernie m_anish: although activity development can very easily proceed in parallel and desynchronized from platform releases
20:56 m_anish so far, pyedu has their own problems, but the feedback dx2 has received has been ok.
20:56 bernie m_anish: who are the current testers?
20:56 m_anish tch, ^?
20:56 bernie, kids in two classes
20:56 bernie m_anish: of DO? or qnother school?
20:56 m_anish DO
20:56 tch__ bernie: the same classrooms for dx1 in D.O
20:57 alsroot_away is now known as alsroot
20:57 m_anish alsroot, good, you're here, there's an impromptu dx3 discussion going on :)
20:58 bernie tch__: those kids are true martyrs :-)
20:58 m_anish bernie, well things are gonna happen slowly in py, but dx2 wise we seem fine
20:59 bernie m_anish: what are the newly deployed XO-1.5 currently running?
20:59 tch__ m_anish: I think the primary goal for dx2 was to make deployers/ local technicians life easier.. so, what we are suggesting here is to also target to teachers needs right?
20:59 m_anish bernie, the 'newly-deployed' xo-1.5 aren't even in py yet.
20:59 tch__, +1
20:59 tch__ bernie: they are fearless testers!
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21:00 m_anish bernie, i'm guessing april/mid april is when the new laptops are gonna be here
21:00 tch__ tch__: i am still here.. that was an impostor!
21:00 bernie tch__: would it be possible for you to go to DO one day and collect as much feedback as possible about what activities or other features they'd need?
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21:01 tch__ yama`: welcome :)
21:01 m_anish bernie, that's what i was getting to... we ideally wanna talk with teachers, pacita so that activities, sugar can blend in more to their *curriculum* and *style of teaching*
21:02 bernie m_anish: how's your spanish, btw? can you already have useful conversations with teachers and kids?
21:02 m_anish bernie, still sucks :(
21:02 bernie, getting better though
21:02 tch__ bernie: sure we can do that, but it is more than just tech work, we should get some advice from pedagoist and people that understands paraguayn education curriculum
21:02 bernie m_anish: it took me 3 months to pick it up, and i came from a very similar language
21:03 tch__ bernie: pyedu education team could help with that
21:03 bernie tch__: maybe martin o.?
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21:03 bernie tch__: he's the only one that knows sugar well AND the school curriculum
21:03 m_anish tch__, yep, whatever it takes to figure it out, but that should be our goal for the next month. do we agree on that
21:04 tch__ bernie: yeah Martin is most likely the best one for that
21:04 m_anish bernie, ^^
21:04 bernie tch__: i'm sure pacita would agree to give him to us for a few hours
21:04 tch__ m_anish: with so many activities developers I think is feaseable goal ;)
21:05 bernie too bad nubae isn't here
21:05 tch__: you could relay this info to the UNA folks
21:05 m_anish bernie, i'm supposed to have a chat with pacita on monday, i can bring it up... moving on... what goes parallel with dx3...
21:05 bernie tch__: to give them ideas on activities to create (or enhance)
21:05 m_anish are we planning a soas type dextrose image anytime soon>
21:05 ?
21:06 bernie m_anish: there would be the Dextrose Server...
21:06 m_anish bernie, what are we basing dx3 on 0.92/4?
21:06 tch__ bernie: that is what i aiming for, independently of dx3 development :)
21:06 bernie m_anish: but only if Paraguay wants to test & deploy it.
21:06 m_anish: dx3 will be 0.92
21:07 m_anish: it's currently, 0.90, but the rebase is super-easy
21:07 too bad silbe isn't here
21:07 m_anish bernie, ah ok.
21:07 bernie 0.92 is just 0.90.3 renamed...
21:07 m_anish bernie, ok, your big ideas for dx3?
21:07 bernie so, Dextrose 3 is F14 + Sugar 0.92
21:07 tch__ bernie: apperently yes
21:08 bernie m_anish: i think we should limit this release to a platform and sugar upgrade. it will look a lot newer than dx2 due to the spiral in the main view :-)
21:08 m_anish: there are few new features, though
21:08 tch__ bernie: lol.
21:08 m_anish bernie, when is dx3 supposed to be out as far as you are concerned?
21:09 bernie m_anish: improvements to Browse would be the most noticeable thing for Sugar
21:09 tch__ bernie: btw, i am not sure about which dx2 features will be ported to dx3, have we ever discussed that?
21:09 bernie m_anish: Gnome, of course, would get 1.5 years of new features.
21:09 m_anish tch__, i'd presume most if not all?
21:10 bernie m_anish: i think it could be out within 3-4 months... but there's no point in making a release that no deployment needs. so it's up to paraguay to decide, I guess
21:10 tch__ bernie: I hope so, but it won't happen if we don't talk about it
21:10 bernie tch__: I thought that silbe already ported forward all of them
21:10 tch__: but he might have missed some of the latest patches
21:10 m_anish bernie, i don't think they're gonna use a new release after just flashing 9000 laptops with a 3 month old release
21:10 tch__ bernie: great
21:10 bernie tch__: the dx3 machinery halted about one month ago
21:11 tch__ bernie: nothing heavy has been developed in the last month, just last minute bug fixes hacks
21:11 bernie m_anish: agreed. so DX3 could become a technology preview. we could use it as a base to develop larger new features
21:12 tch__ i think it will be important and necessary to define our goals for dx3 and from thar defining the technical requirements, etc
21:12 bernie m_anish: dfarning told me that he wants to synchronize our builds with olpc. even the versioning scheme (the 10.1.3 thing, which i find obnoxious)
21:12 tch__ m_anish: can you work on that? like in a wiki page?
21:12 bernie tch__: yes
21:13 m_anish bernie, makes sense. re: obscure version nos, i'm not worried :)
21:13 tch__, could do that
21:13 bernie still, i don't see the advantage of synchronizing our builds with olpc rather than with deployments. it may save a little duplication, but in my opinion it takes away the reason why Dextrose exists.
21:14 tch__ bernie: +1
21:14 m_anish bernie, you should ask dfarning the logic behind his decision
21:14 bernie m_anish: i asked, but now he's afk.
21:15 m_anish bernie, ok, the imp takeaway i'm seeing is dx3: preview 0.92 release. in parallel, do some research on curriculum and how to enhance activities to fit in better, and focus on that afterwards?
21:15 bernie, tch__ /me could make a quick wiki page and discuss it with everyone in the meeting tomorrow.
21:16 tch__ m_anish: sounds good, it will help us all to be in the same page
21:16 bernie m_anish: ok. unless, of course, a deployment steps forward to deploy it
21:17 btw, when is the xo-1.75 going to be available?
21:17 tch__ bernie: no clue
21:18 bernie: is there a f11 build for it?
21:18 bernie m_anish: nice. please, make a hierarchy similar to http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Dextrose/2
21:18 tch__ bernie: or just f14 >
21:18 m_anish bernie, nein idee
21:18 bernie tch__: nope, they use fedora 12 or 13, i think
21:18 cjb: right?
21:18 m_anish bernie, ok
21:18 tch__ bernie: hmm
21:18 cjb f12
21:18 bernie tch__: i think the idea is to switch to f14 as soon as it becomes available for arm
21:18 cjb f13 nearly ready
21:18 then f14 a few months after that
21:19 bernie cjb: will the next olpc os release use the same fedora distro for all the XO platfroms?
21:19 tch__ bernie: that will make sense
21:20 cjb we'd like to standardize on F14, yes
21:20 but it's not clear that F14 ARM will be ready in time
21:20 given that it hasn't been started on yet
21:20 bernie cjb: i wonder if trisquel could become available for arm in time :-)
21:21 cjb: i've fell in love with the Trisquel + Sugar images that quidam is rolling out
21:21 cjb: he uses the dextrose sugar packages too...
21:21 m_anish cjb, any idea when xo1.75 is gonna be in use by deployments?
21:21 bernie good question
21:25 m_anish: can you talk with carlos about the idea to upgrade the xs to rhel6 or f14?
21:26 tch__: when are you seeing again the people at UNA?
21:26 tch__ bernie: personally I don't think they would like to do that until theres a VERY strong reason
21:27 bernie tch__: seeing you?
21:28 m_anish bernie, i can relay your question, but don't have anything useful to add to it.
21:28 bernie tch__: ah, you mean upgrading the schoolserver :-)
21:28 cjb m_anish: no idea, it's all a bit complicated
21:28 tch__ bernie: well, Jorge Levera is working on the proposal I am helping him, but it is still not clear how we can relate it some of the interested people
21:28 bernie cjb: ok. thanks
21:28 tch__ bernie: yep, talking about XS
21:29 bernie tch__: these things are always muddy
21:29 shall we conclude here?
21:29 tch__ i think we have enough questions for now haha
21:30 bernie tch__: hehe
21:30 sayonara!
21:30 #endmeeting
21:30 meeting Meeting ended Fri Mar  4 21:30:21 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
21:30 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-04T20:52:21.html
21:30 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]11-03-04T20:52:21
21:30 m_anish cjb, ok thanks!
21:31 tch__ i really need a new laptop... but the buying one from usa is too expensive in transportation and fees ;/ is like 2x the price
21:31 ops~
21:31 cjb tch__: easy; just fly to the USA and get it yourself :)
21:33 tch__ cjb: true, it will probably cost the same.. lol
21:33 m_anish cjb, tch__ had the option of buying a laptop or flying to US 3 times. he bought the laptop everytime :)
21:33 ... or so i've been told :P
21:33 bernie tch__: if you come to boston i could host you
21:34 tch__: ask dfarning to bring it to you!
21:34 -> back to work for the fsf
21:34 m_anish bernie, hasta luego!
21:35 tch__, thanks for the meeting! ttyl
21:35 tch__ bernie: haha is not a bad idea
21:35 bernie tch__: suburashii!
21:35 tch__: boku wa tensai des.
21:35 tch__ m_anish: hasta luego ;)
21:35 bernie: deme!!
21:36 bernie tch__: baka mono!!!
21:36 tch__ bernie: this is nonsense!
21:36 bernie tch__: impossible!
21:37 tch__: i'm looking for the translation of "shut up!", but it says "damare". instead, I'm pretty sure that they say something similar to "korosse"
21:38 tch__: haha, here's the complete vocabulary of rude responses: http://japanese.about.com/library/blsjp28.htm
21:39 tch__ bernie: lol
21:39 bernie Yamero!
21:40 tch__ http://users.tmok.com/~tumble/amfaqs/101glos.html
21:41 bernie tch__: http://japanese.about.com/library/blsjp39_5.htm
21:42 tch__ bernie: masaka!
21:46 bernie tch__: i finally understood the "shut up!" thing. they never say that, because it's too rude
21:47 tch__: instead, they say "it's noisy!" (say what you observe, right?)
21:47 tch__: and we know already the word for noisy from Urusei Yartsura
21:48 tch__ bernie: urusai* haha
21:48 bernie tch__: that's the word that sounded a little like "korose"!
21:48 tch__: http://japanese.about.com/blpod030801.htm
21:49 tch__ http://japanese.about.com/libr[…]/audio/030801.wav lol
21:50 bernie tch__: you should definitely watch urusei yatsura, even if it's from 1984.
21:51 tch__: i watched a few episodes that I remembered were funny and I still liked it
21:52 tch__ bernie: I try to not judge by the looks but looks kinda crappy :S
21:52 bernie tch__: yeah, the drawing is kind of cheap. but the direction and the plot is fantastic, though.
21:53 tch__ bernie: except if you refer to this version http://monsterdonut.files.word[…]rusei-yatsura.jpg
22:02 bernie tch__: bakamono!
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22:53 bernie walterbender, cjb, CanoeBerry, mchua: meeting in 7?
22:54 walterbender bernie: at 6
22:54 bernie walterbender: i meant 7mins :-)
22:54 walterbender yes
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23:00 walterbender cjb, alsroot, CanoeBerry, mchua ?
23:00 alsroot is here
23:00 bernie icarito: hello
23:00 walterbender We have a quorum!!
23:00 icarito hi bernie
23:00 hi all
23:00 walterbender #startmeeting
23:00 meeting Meeting started Fri Mar  4 23:00:51 2011 UTC. The chair is walterbender. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
23:00 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
23:01 walterbender My apologies for not being able to meet yesterday
23:01 I had a last-minute glitch in my schedule.
23:01 But I am glad we have some time to meet today. Thanks.
23:01 cjb howdy
23:01 walterbender hi chris
23:02 icarito yes thanks sorry for not consulting about the time
23:02 glad you could make it
23:02 walterbender I was just in MIami. I was supposed to be in Mexico, but due to some unfortunate circumstances, that leg of the trip was postponed.
23:02 the silver lining was lots of time with erikos, gonzalo and martin
23:03 we went over some of the OLPC plans for Sugar and did some coding :)
23:03 cjb :)
23:03 walterbender and we discussed the need/opportunity for a Sugar Camp.
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23:05 walterbender I had been thinking that a Sugar Camp coincident with some of the events in .uy in the coming months would make sense, but after discussing it with Pablo Flores, it may make more sense to aim for Miami, sooner than later.
23:05 bernie is excited at the idea of a sugar camp!
23:05 walterbender but I want to bring it up here first for general discussion
23:05 some background:
23:06 we were going to hold a Sugar Camp in Lima in February, but it never materialized because of a breakdown in communication with DIGITE
23:06 then Pablo announced the CeibalJam event, 5-7May
23:07 and it seemed that the AC gang was going to be in .uy around that time.
23:07 Plus erikos is in the region then.
23:07 cjb huh.  so what's wrong with colocating it with CeibalJam?
23:07 walterbender hence the potential synergy with a Sugar Camp in .uy
23:08 alsroot cjb: +1
23:08 walterbender cjb: nothing except it seems that the AC people are not going after all :P
23:08 bernie I'd be +1 on having everyone in montevideo
23:08 walterbender so if there is a better way to include them, we should discuss it.
23:08 bernie walterbender: i'd go if enough other people go
23:08 cjb walterbender: well, that doesn't have to be a showstopper.  and maybe they'd reconsider if they knew that it was *the* SugarCamp event
23:08 walterbender cjb:  absolutely not a show-stopper... just a consideration.
23:08 cjb cool, okay
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23:09 cjb I think we should push for it!
23:09 It sounds like good timing, good location, good excuse for a meetup
23:09 walterbender would love to finally meet alsroot -- can we get him a visa?
23:09 cjb: a couple of other events include: end of May, Squeakfest in Montevideo
23:09 icarito has quit IRC
23:09 cjb oh, that would work too
23:09 walterbender and the Tour of Uruguay in late April
23:10 cjb hm, OLPC has a bringup scheduled early May
23:10 (and I'd like us to send people, possibly including me)
23:10 walterbender cjb: that was one reason brought up yesterday for considering something in late March in Miami
23:11 cjb late March seems way too soon for a global meetup
23:11 sorry I'm jumping in at the last minute and trying to change things though :)
23:11 walterbender plus there is a mini-learning summit planned for the 24-25th of March.
23:11 icarito <icarito!~icaro@190.157.140.197> has joined #sugar-meeting
23:11 walterbender cjb: this all last minute, alas.
23:11 icarito sorry i got dropped out
23:11 damn
23:12 cjb icarito: try using quassel or something
23:12 walterbender how about if I send an email to Sugar Devel with a list of possible dates/venues and ask for people to express their preferences in the wiki?
23:12 cjb icarito: it's useless to try and stay on IRC with a flaky connection like that
23:13 walterbender: that sounds like a good idea
23:13 walterbender and we can pick the combintion that maximizes attendence
23:13 will CC iaep and dev.laptop.org
23:13 cjb great
23:13 I'll try to help by getting a clear indication from our hardware team when the Taipei trip is happening
23:14 unfortunately 5-7 is right in the middle of the current dates
23:14 but they could slip, or we could try to position SugarCamp before or after CeibalJam to match up
23:14 walterbender we also talked about the sorts of things we might work on together: everything from Python interspection to an Activity sprint.
23:14 cjb the python introspection stuff is really important
23:15 right now we're stuck on deprecated code (pygtk) that no-one wants to maintain anymore
23:15 and it's going to get worse quickly over time
23:15 so I think making that the full focus of the hacking part of the Camp would be a really good use of time
23:15 icarito pygtk is unmantained?
23:15 cjb icarito: deprecated in favor of gobject introspection
23:16 there is no pygtk for gtk3
23:16 walterbender IMHO, we would be best served by one of two approaches: a big push into looming problems or an intense effort to bring everything up to date
23:16 I guess it depends upon who can attend.
23:16 cjb yeah, somewhat
23:16 walterbender but I'll solicit topics too.
23:16 cjb no need to decide so far ahead of time
23:16 icarito cjb, hmm interesting I did not know that
23:16 icarito1 <icarito1!~icarito@190.157.140.197> has joined #sugar-meeting
23:16 icarito gobject instrospection...
23:17 walterbender tomeu and erikos have done some ground work
23:17 there is other stuff going on too, such as improved collaboration bits we may want to explore
23:17 bernie walterbender: i'll talk with dfarning about getting all the AC folks to attend the Sugar Camp in Montevideo. many of them are very close
23:17 cjb having sugar services available via gobject-introspection would also make them usable from other languages
23:17 like javascript or C
23:18 walterbender cjb: a bit win
23:18 icarito colombia might be a good spot too
23:18 strategically speaking
23:18 bernie cjb: they'd have to be rewritten in C or vala, though
23:18 icarito rodrigo arboleda announced a project for 4.5 million laptops
23:18 alsroot cjb: you mean <python code>-<introspection>-<*>?
23:18 icarito might not materialize but there's lot of momentum
23:18 dirakx it would be nice to have a gobject-intronspection migration plan.
23:18 cjb alsroot: yeah, that's what I meant.  I don't know much about it yet though.
23:19 bernie cjb: as far as i understand, the pygi work was intended to do the opposite: make sugar bind to gtk/gnome libs without any specific bindings.
23:19 cjb should we talk about possibilities for travel sponsorship?
23:19 icarito sugar api accesible from javascript would be a hit ;-)
23:19 bernie i would definitely need sponsorship either from AC or Sugar Labs.
23:20 walterbender cjb: yes...
23:20 icarito yes me too
23:20 walterbender cjb: I'll push on several fronts... but SL hasn't got much in terms of discretionary funds :(
23:21 alsroot cjb: hmm, not sure how python UI code might be used in other palces, ie, for that case I started working on polyol(vala, and introspection, surar-toolkit)
23:21 cjb yeah
23:21 we could encourage individual donations for travel sponsorship
23:21 walterbender but I bet we could get the various LA deployments to send people.
23:21 and maybe kick in to support a few of the far-flung developers.
23:21 bernie cjb: +1
23:21 icarito there's campus party big event in bogota in end of june
23:21 http://www.campus-party.com.co[…]11/el-evento.html
23:22 cjb I'm happy to ask people at OLPC to consider donating for travel sponsorship, though I guess I'm not very optimistic.  :)  (If we're sending a few people I think that makes it more possible than if we aren't.)
23:22 icarito we already have participation, they would be open to host a sugar camp
23:23 cjb if it's phrased as a conference fee for people who have jobs, that would be interesting
23:23 icarito cjb, CanoeBerry is good at that
23:23 cjb like, if you benefit from Sugar professionally then there's a suggested donation
23:23 icarito i was amazed at what they accomplished for SF
23:23 cjb yeah, good point
23:23 icarito VISA is a barrier for latam participation in USA events
23:24 and language of course
23:24 walterbender icarito: we should add that(el evento)  for a possible date/venue on the wiki page I will make.
23:24 cjb so it seems like the important thing is simply to announce that we want to have a SugarCamp sometime around April-June
23:25 hopefully everything else will work itself out from there :)
23:25 walterbender we should be able to get LATU to help us vis-a-vis any visa issues. (try saying that aloud 3 times)
23:25 icarito here's what I mentioned about rodrigo http://ht.ly/423rh
23:26 walterbender, if we want to have participation from peru (that would be interesting, from a pedagogical pov i think) i guess the only way is doing it there
23:26 but i'm seeing that our goals for a SC are more technical
23:26 cjb icarito: my Spanish is terrible, but it looks like that's a proposal rather than something that's actually been funded
23:27 icarito like we need to sprint
23:27 cjb yeah
23:27 my feeling is that we need a lot of technical work this time
23:27 walterbender cjb: yes... I think SC should be focused on coding...
23:27 icarito cjb, yes but there's lots of activity lately here because the president announced each child would get a laptop
23:27 cjb I understand that it's great to have educators at  events too
23:27 icarito cjb, the question is which brand
23:27 walterbender but the good news is that we may get some pointed feedback at the end of March at the mini-learning summit
23:27 cjb but yeah, at this point we're behind on technical work the rest of our platform's done and we need to catch up
23:28 that's good
23:28 icarito walterbender, mini learning summit?
23:28 walterbender we hope to have representatives from the learning teams from .uy, .py, .pe, .ni...
23:28 bernie .it
23:28 icarito where?
23:29 walterbender icarito: still in the early planning stages: Miami, end of March
23:29 icarito: a focus on evaluation
23:29 icarito: I think that Claudia may have discussed it in Wednesday's learning chat (that I missed due to airplanes)
23:30 icarito walterbender, cjb the Campus Party is a technical event, if we did it then, i'm sure we could sprint our minds off and even recruit some help
23:31 cjb icarito: yep, maybe.  it looks huge, I think I would get too distracted to concentrate on Sugar code :)
23:31 icarito this would position sugar labs even more strongly in colombia, which i feel is one of our strongholds
23:32 colomia is strategically located in the middle between miami and uy/pe
23:32 dirakx, what do you think about campus party for hosting a sugar camp?
23:32 cjb that's true, though we shouldn't necessarily pick a SC location based on what's convenient to selling XOs
23:32 walterbender well, let's lay out the choices and see what we can come up with in terms of attendence.
23:33 dirakx icarito. not agree. campusparty is more like a comercial event of telefonica. inmho.
23:33 walterbender #action: Walter will make a webpage later tonight to spell out the Sugar Camp options
23:34 dirakx: but maybe telefonica will sponsor the Sugar Camp... worth asking
23:34 icarito dirakx, they already are sponsoring my workshop of Turtle Art
23:34 dirakx walterbender: that's what i was thinking..maybe fundacion telefonica would be interested.
23:34 walterbender icarito: cool
23:34 icarito dirakx, and they sponsored a workshop last year too for SL Co
23:34 walterbender icarito: v107 will be landing soon :P
23:34 icarito that's where we recruited iguana
23:35 dirakx ok ;)
23:35 icarito iguana is Fabian Prieto, a very avid history major who was in charge of a SOAS deployment
23:36 walterbender, ok lets discuss this in the ML
23:37 walterbender OK.
23:37 any other topics for this evening?
23:37 icarito: do you have an update re certification programs?
23:37 and maybe we can chat for a few minutes about i18n?
23:38 icarito only that SL Chile has contributed some documentation about training they did
23:38 cjb I was just going to mention the realization I've had on how important it is that we get over to gobject-introspection and gtk3, but I did that earlier :)
23:38 oh, also -- multitouch support is only in gtk3, not gtk2
23:38 so that's important for OLPC :)
23:39 (but I think there are very strong reasons for SL to do the introspection thing regardless of multitouch/OLPC)
23:39 icarito cjb, do you mean really there won't be gtk for python in v3? I don't believe it!
23:40 walterbender, certification has been well received but nothing has been established yet
23:41 JT_4sugar <JT_4sugar!JT@d192-24-250-129.try.wideopenwest.com> has joined #sugar-meeting
23:41 icarito #action icarito will write a wiki page on Local Labs / Certification programme and continue the discusion on sur@+IAEP
23:42 homunq_ <homunq_!~chema@187.143.9.236> has joined #sugar-meeting
23:42 bernie cjb: if we do keep around a backwards compatible sugar-toolkit, the transition won't be too traumatic
23:43 cjb icarito: pygtk.org says that new applications should no longer be written using pygtk.
23:43 walterbender re i18n, did anyone have any thought about how we can shore up our Pootle support?
23:43 bernie cjb: i think it's very easy to do if we rename the gtk3 sugar toolkit
23:43 cjb icarito: but instead pygobject.
23:43 icarito cjb, bernie how do you see something like Titanium Appcelerator?
23:43 cjb icarito: I think HTML5+JS looks much better
23:43 bernie icarito: what is it?
23:43 walterbender Chris Leonard's email was an eye-opener
23:43 cjb bernie: sure
23:44 icarito its an API / dev / deployment tool
23:44 you write your app in HTML + JS + optionally Python/Ruby/PHP
23:44 cjb bernie: it's a crossplatform toolkit like wxWindows but it targets web pages as well
23:44 icarito it deploys a Desktop App in Mac/Windows/GNU
23:44 bernie cjb: i see... like qt
23:44 cjb bernie: yeah, like Qt with a web backend
23:44 icarito bernie, not really
23:45 its more like Prism on steroids
23:45 bernie cjb: ah you mean *real* web pages
23:45 cjb bernie: yes, rich webapps
23:45 icarito provides a common API for desktop items such as traybar
23:45 bernie, the latest Status.net desktop app is built with it
23:45 and its free software
23:46 i've found it pretty cool as I'm hacking on a status.net desktop client
23:46 provides the view source functionality cscott was asking for
23:46 homunq has quit IRC
23:46 JT4sugar has quit IRC
23:47 icarito i would really like to see a sugar compatible api and dev tools like that
23:47 bernie icarito: so, i don't know this particular framework, but introducing new toolkits in sugar is problematic... we'd have to keep around the old toolkit for years to support the existing 200+ activities
23:47 icarito i know i'm dreaming
23:48 bernie, actually it's pretty much just webkit + glue code
23:48 walterbender has quit IRC
23:48 bernie icarito: besides, it's not going to happen unless someone steps forward to do the work. some time ago it seemed that nokia wanted us to introduce qt support in sugar, but then the deal did not happen.
23:48 icarito but i have no code to show for it so i'll drop it for now
23:49 walterbender <walterbender!~webchat@jita.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting
23:49 walterbender sorry. I managed to lose my network connection :(
23:49 bernie icarito: if you come up with something that could be bundled and used to write new activities, some developers could use it. if it becomes popular, then it could be standardized later on
23:49 icarito bernie, you should really look at it what I like is you can have <script language="python">
23:50 ok then so we should dicuss i18n
23:50 bernie icarito: my friend torello did some work to port Mono (C#) applications to Sugar. he rewrote some of the classes in sugar-toolkit, including the toolbar and journal interface.
23:50 icarito i understand we are at a bit of a crisis?
23:50 walterbender icarito: it seems to be the case...
23:51 icarito bernie, ah yes i remember that, i cringed at the thought of .net sugar apps :-D
23:51 walterbender wearing my activity developer hat, I cannot seem to figure out how to get new strings into Pootle any more... the auto-magic is not happening
23:51 alsroot bernie: btw, GC use C sugar-toolkit in for UI+Journal+TP
23:52 icarito alsroot, GC?
23:52 alsroot icarito: GCompris
23:52 C is much more portable then C#
23:53 icarito if we could have a JS sugar API then perhaps porting activities to android, etc would be closer to happening, as well as targeting the web
23:54 alsroot, bernie cjb , what would be a way to call the sugar api from JS, so I can go on researching myself?
23:54 alsroot icarito: actually, we need to split UI and non-UI parts, non-UI code (how its done in polyol) is just pure C code +, eg, tp calls
23:55 for UI code, in polyol it is gtk C code
23:55 icarito i'm sorry i think we're not on topic - alsroot tp calls? sorry i'm not 100% on abbreviations
23:55 alsroot icarito: telepathy
23:55 icarito ah
23:55 i read some cool docs from lucian on "Webified" on the wiki
23:55 alsroot after switching from PS, tp wrappers are more useful to have in sugar lib
23:57 icarito alsroot, so sorry again - PS?
23:57 bernie alsroot: is the toolkit available as a separate library?
23:57 alsroot icarito: presence-service, that is being deprecated in 0.90+
23:57 bernie hmm i feel that we got way too technical for a slobs meeting :-)
23:57 cjb icarito: there are gobject-introspection bindings for js
23:57 icarito yes and we still should discuss i18n
23:57 alsroot bernie: there are ds,ui,collab,shell libs
23:57 bernie alsroot: deprecated or removed?
23:57 cjb icarito: e.g. http://live.gnome.org/Gjs/
23:58 icarito cjb, thanks for the pointers
23:58 bernie alsroot: i thought we weren't running the PS process any more
23:58 alsroot bernie: afaik, etoys still needs it (and polyol as well, but I'm planing to add non-ps backend to it)
23:58 cjb bernie: I think we'd just end up with some "Sugar1" activities and some "Sugar2" activities, if we do an ambitious rewrite
23:58 bernie: it works okay for e.g. Android :)
23:59 bernie cjb: i think it's the cheapest way to evolve the platform it as long as the dependencies are relatively flat

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