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| 13:58 | walterbender | garycmartin: thanks for accommodating the change in meeting time |
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| 13:59 | walterbender | hi christianmarcsch |
| 13:59 | garycmartin | walterbender: Hi, no problem for me. Just worried we might have lost some others with the off-list email. |
| 13:59 | walterbender | garycmartin: since I may have to leave early, do you want to be the one to #start_meeting? |
| 14:00 | garycmartin | walterbender: sure, one moment... |
| 14:00 | christianmarcsch | hi walter, gary |
| 14:01 | garycmartin | #startmeeting |
| 14:01 | meeting | Meeting started Sun Feb 13 14:01:43 2011 UTC. The chair is garycmartin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 14:01 | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting | |
| 14:02 | walterbender | thanks for coming to the design meeting... long over due :) |
| 14:02 | christianmarcsch | yes indeed! |
| 14:02 | i have been looking through the agenda | |
| 14:02 | walterbender | did everyone see the agenda Sascha put together? |
| 14:02 | christianmarcsch | could use a little explanation... |
| 14:02 | walterbender | #link http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]ruary/029938.html |
| 14:02 | christianmarcsch: I suppose we can go into detail one by one | |
| 14:02 | garycmartin | walterbender: yes, and yours, and Simon's! |
| 14:03 | walterbender | I'd like to add the Home View idea that Fred posted this morning as well... |
| 14:03 | christianmarcsch | walterbender: thanks, that would be great |
| 14:03 | garycmartin | walterbender: whose list should we start with? |
| 14:03 | walterbender | #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/D[…]Home_View/Toolbar |
| 14:03 | let's use Sascha's, which I think is comprehensive | |
| 14:04 | #topic size issue with Random View | |
| 14:05 | garycmartin | #topic Issue with icon size in Random Layout home view |
| 14:05 | walterbender | as background, when we added the spiral, I upped the maximum size of icons to Medium when there were just a few icons |
| 14:06 | if you switch to Random View, it ends up making the icons Standard size when you move them. | |
| 14:06 | Question is: what size should icons be in Random view? should the size change wit density? | |
| 14:06 | garycmartin | walterbender: is it possible to have the behave as they did before and avoid needing to make a new specific choice? |
| 14:06 | walterbender | (let's not spend a lot of time on this one: pretty minor point) |
| 14:07 | christianmarcsch | quick question: by random view, i assume you mean freeform? |
| 14:07 | walterbender | garycmartin: sure: I can make them all map to standard size. (yes freeform -- it is called random in the code) |
| 14:07 | christianmarcsch | is there a screenshot posted somewhere? |
| 14:08 | walterbender | christianmarcsch: I didn't make one... I could while we move on to the next topic |
| 14:08 | christianmarcsch | walterbender: thanks, that would help. |
| 14:09 | garycmartin | walterbender: If we go with scaling the icons based on count, then free form patterns people make would need shuffling as the size scaled, would be frustrating I think. |
| 14:09 | walterbender | garycmartin: I agree... |
| 14:09 | garycmartin: so probably we should just pick one size. | |
| 14:10 | garycmartin: but the old code just assumed a maximum size... doesn't really handle the situation properly | |
| 14:10 | christianmarcsch | walterbender: could we pick one size for random view, but still have the other view scale? |
| 14:10 | walterbender | christianmarcsch: yes. |
| 14:10 | garycmartin | walterbender: the freeform layout does not have such a hard limit on the number that can fit in a fixed layout (which is where the auto scaling really helps). |
| 14:10 | walterbender | garycmartin: agreed. |
| 14:10 | so the question is simply, what size? | |
| 14:11 | so I will make a screen shot or two to show you | |
| 14:11 | christianmarcsch | ok, perfect |
| 14:11 | garycmartin | walterbender: what is the size of the icon that is directly under the large central XO? Seems like that should the the default in that zoom view. |
| 14:11 | walterbender | garycmartin: that is Standard size |
| 14:12 | garycmartin: actually, I find it confusing sometimes that that icon doesn't move and the others do, so I would argue a different size would help (or some other distinction) | |
| 14:13 | garycmartin | walterbender: yes fair point, especially in freeform layout where icons can clobber near there. |
| 14:13 | walterbender | well, let me make the screen shots... meanwhile, shall we discuss the Mute button? |
| 14:13 | garycmartin | walterbender: (but it still seemed about the right size ;-) |
| 14:13 | walterbender | garycmartin: yes. I agree |
| 14:14 | Nubae has left #sugar-meeting | |
| 14:16 | walterbender | #topic Speaker frame device: pop up palette on left-click instead of toggling mute |
| 14:16 | silbe: can you give a brief intro? | |
| 14:16 | garycmartin | walterbender: +1 from me for speaker device tweak. |
| 14:17 | silbe | I'll copy & paste the patch description: |
| 14:17 | Speaker frame device: pop up palette on left-click instead of toggling mute | |
| 14:17 | Reports from the field indicate that users accidently left-click the Speaker | |
| 14:17 | icon and don't realise it got muted. By popping up the palette we enable them | |
| 14:18 | to explicitly choose the mute action without instead of surprising them by | |
| 14:18 | automatically executing one of the secondary actions (there is no primary | |
| 14:18 | action). | |
| 14:18 | (trying to find a mockup or screenshot of the Speaker device so we all know what it looks like currently) | |
| 14:19 | christianmarcsch | is this it: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]:Screenshot-3.png |
| 14:20 | silbe | christianmarcsch: yep, exactly. This is NOT it: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/D[…]/Designs/Frame#07 |
| 14:20 | (the latter one is missing the Mute action) | |
| 14:20 | christianmarcsch | do we have a state change on the icon when muted? |
| 14:20 | i mean currently? | |
| 14:20 | silbe | yes, it turns monochrome if muted |
| 14:21 | otherwise owner colors | |
| 14:21 | christianmarcsch | i see |
| 14:21 | that probably isn't a strong enough signal | |
| 14:21 | the proposal to put it in the palette seems fine to me | |
| 14:22 | i certainly makes the functionality more clear | |
| 14:22 | garycmartin | christianmarcsch: I'm also not aware of other device toolbar icons that have this top level single click action, certainly not any of the default ones. |
| 14:22 | silbe | it already is a secondary action in the palette. My proposal is to drop the "hidden" primary action and just pop up the palette on left-click (as well as right-click) instead. |
| 14:22 | garycmartin | +1 |
| 14:23 | christianmarcsch | sounds good |
| 14:23 | silbe | nice :) walterbender? |
| 14:24 | christianmarcsch | one question: how do i unmute? |
| 14:24 | does a new menu item appear? | |
| 14:25 | walterbender | silbe: I am fine with this proposal |
| 14:25 | silbe | christianmarcsch: same way. The action changes to Unmute |
| 14:25 | garycmartin | christianmarcsch: just double checking, but I'm sure the item renames |
| 14:25 | walterbender | christianmarcsch: #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/D[…]reeform_icon_size |
| 14:25 | silbe | (I just double checked ;) ) |
| 14:26 | christianmarcsch | walterbender: thanks for the screenshot |
| 14:26 | walterbender | seems like we have consensus on this one... |
| 14:27 | garycmartin | christianmarcsch: yes, cross in circle icon and Mute text changes to tick in circle icon and Unmute text. |
| 14:27 | #AGREED | |
| 14:27 | silbe | perfect. Let's go back to the first one then, the icon sizes in free form view? |
| 14:27 | christianmarcsch | +1 re: mute |
| 14:27 | walterbender | #topic icon size in free form |
| 14:27 | everyone see the screen shots? | |
| 14:28 | christianmarcsch | yes, thanks |
| 14:28 | so, i agree that if we had to go with one size, standard size probably works best | |
| 14:28 | medium looks good, but will only work for a small number of icons | |
| 14:28 | i also see walter | |
| 14:28 | 's point about differentiating the icon below the XO | |
| 14:29 | walterbender | christianmarcsch: well, you can pack quite a few in if you have all the screen even at Medium size |
| 14:29 | christianmarcsch | walterbender: visually, i'd be inclined to go with medium |
| 14:29 | walterbender | probably 100 or more |
| 14:29 | garycmartin | walterbender: can we have a larger hit mask area around the central XO icon in freeform mode to make sure there is reasonable white space? |
| 14:29 | silbe | whispers: Let's drop it... :D |
| 14:29 | walterbender | garycmartin: I like that suggestion |
| 14:30 | christianmarcsch | garycmartin: the whitespace would help, and we may not need to otherwise differentiate the size of the icon |
| 14:30 | walterbender | let me make some more sketches based on this feedback and maybe we can revisit this through email? |
| 14:30 | christianmarcsch | ok |
| 14:30 | one thing i'd add: | |
| 14:31 | it would be nice if we could also make the icon under the XO medium, with added whitespace | |
| 14:31 | walterbender | I need to check, but I don't think Freeform puts any protected zone around the center of the screen... leaves that to the user. |
| 14:31 | christianmarcsch: I'll try that option as well | |
| 14:32 | #agreed that walter will present more sketches in an email thread | |
| 14:32 | #topic Don't hide Register menu item upon successful registration | |
| 14:32 | silbe: you are up again!! | |
| 14:32 | silbe | ah, now it's getting "interesting" |
| 14:33 | garycmartin | walterbender: I'm not sure if your bot commands will work... |
| 14:33 | walterbender: need to be the meeting chair according to the wiki I'm reading | |
| 14:33 | walterbender | garycmartin: OK... |
| 14:33 | garycmartin | irc://irc.freenode.net/#agreed that walter will present more sketches in an email thread |
| 14:33 | silbe | Currently we have a "Register" menu item in the buddy menu of the central XO owner icon that's shown iff the user isn't registered to a school server yet. |
| 14:34 | garycmartin | #agreed that walter will present more sketches in an email thread |
| 14:34 | #topic Don't hide Register menu item upon successful registration | |
| 14:34 | silbe | For deployments (including non-XO ones) and individual users that don't use a school server, it will always be shown. |
| 14:35 | Some deployments don't back up the school server, so they need users to be able to register again (after the school server has been re-installed). | |
| 14:36 | garycmartin | silbe: The register option should be a menu on the neighbourhood view, specifically the schoolserver icon we spent ages on should be in the main canvas with the options. |
| 14:36 | walterbender | silbe: and I image if they change schools... another scenario? |
| 14:36 | silbe | Others do the registration fully automatically (though I don't know how) and don't want the menu item to be shown at all. |
| 14:36 | walterbender | garycmartin: that'd be nice |
| 14:36 | silbe | garycmartin: except that I have no idea how that would work on the network level. |
| 14:37 | walterbender | be nice to not ever have it on the home view... |
| 14:37 | garycmartin | silbe: is not schoolserver not an agreed dns name? |
| 14:37 | silbe | walterbender: +1 it always felt awkward to have that option there. |
| 14:38 | garycmartin: which one? schoolserver.school1.edu, schoolserver.school2.edu, ...? | |
| 14:38 | walterbender | silbe: as a short-term measure, not having it disappear would be innocuous enough it seems. |
| 14:38 | garycmartin | silbe: so how does the 'register' option deal with multiple servers on the same domain? |
| 14:39 | silbe | in the simple cases, the school server is an all-in-one solution that handles DHCP and DNS, too, so just "schoolserver" works. But if Sugar is fit into an existing infrastructure, that might be possible. |
| 14:40 | garycmartin | no objection to keeping the register option visible if that is a quick fix that works though it is and alway was in the wrong place ;-) |
| 14:40 | silbe | garycmartin: it depends on someone having set the address in the Control Panel. Default is jabber.sugarlabs.org. |
| 14:41 | garycmartin | silbe: your kidding, my goodness... ouch. |
| 14:42 | silbe | hmm, maybe we can do some HTTP level poking to discover if the Jabber server is a full-grown school server and display the school server icon in the Neighborhood then... |
| 14:42 | garycmartin | silbe: there's no mention of schoolserver in the UI text. |
| 14:42 | walterbender | silbe: seems we should be able to get something into the school server to make such identification readily apparent |
| 14:43 | silbe: shall we get martin langhoff on it? | |
| 14:43 | garycmartin: there has been a school server in the Sugar mix since Day One. the fact that the HIG doesn't mention it is an oversight | |
| 14:44 | silbe | walterbender: yeah, would probably be a nice medium-term solution. Long-term I'm not sure if the assumption that both are the same machine make sense, but let's talk about that sometime else. :) |
| 14:44 | walterbender | silbe: I don't think that is the intention... both the same |
| 14:45 | garycmartin | walterbender: totally agreed, having never need to user a schoolserver I never realised how shockingly poor the UI to it was implemented/documented. |
| 14:45 | walterbender | so de we agree to the short-term patch and the longer term direction to investigate? |
| 14:45 | garycmartin | +1 |
| 14:45 | silbe | garycmartin: FWIW, that's what my current patch does - it renames the menu item to "Register again". |
| 14:46 | walterbender | silbe: that is an improvement |
| 14:47 | shall we advance to the next topic? | |
| 14:47 | garycmartin | are we all happy with that one? |
| 14:47 | walterbender | +1 |
| 14:47 | christianmarcsch | +1 |
| 14:47 | garycmartin | christianmarcsch: ^^ |
| 14:47 | silbe | +1 on both for me. christianmarcsch? |
| 14:47 | walterbender | #topic Journal entries on external media |
| 14:47 | garycmartin | #agreed to not hide Register menu item upon successful registration |
| 14:48 | walterbender | another silbe topic :P |
| 14:48 | garycmartin | #topic Journal entries on external media |
| 14:48 | silbe | yeah, or erikos - but I was the one who proposed the changes, so I adopted it :) |
| 14:49 | Context: | |
| 14:49 | OLPC ships a version of Sugar 0.84 that brings back some of the Sugar 0.82 way of handling Journal entries on external media | |
| 14:51 | current "upstream" versions of Sugar 0.84+ don't store (Sugar) metadata on external media and construct a minimal metadata set based on file name and detected file type | |
| 14:52 | (the reason I'm mentioning "OLPC ships" is just because version numbers don't adequately describe the different versions of Sugar and their handling of external media) | |
| 14:53 | the patch is going to get merged into 0.92, and I proposed a few changes: | |
| 14:53 | a) remove the metadata if there is not an associated file (e.g. | |
| 14:53 | file has been deleted), so any file that gets written with the same name | |
| 14:53 | in the future doesn't get associated with stale metadata. Files are | |
| 14:53 | often named "Untitled.odt" etc., so it might be a rather common case. | |
| 14:53 | b) delete metadata if it gets corrupted (don't delete the actual file) | |
| 14:54 | c) remove preview if mtime does not match (e.g. Peter saves his Write entry to a storage device, he opens it in OpenOffice on his mother's computer and his mother corrects some errors ---> the preview will be outdated), this might not be a too big issue - input on the design team on this welcome. | |
| 14:54 | (sorry for the wrapping on a) ) | |
| 14:55 | garycmartin | silbe: I don't see anything controversial from a design side with the proposed changes (assuming code review and testing went well). |
| 14:55 | silbe | It's all about what happens if an entry is modified or deleted outside of Sugar. |
| 14:55 | garycmartin: nice. | |
| 14:55 | (there's no updated code yet) | |
| 14:56 | christianmarcsch | silbe: i'm not sure about removing the preview. it seems that it may still have value, even if it is outdate? |
| 14:56 | walterbender | silbe: does preview even make sense in the context of external media? |
| 14:56 | silbe | FGrose proposed the following alteration: |
| 14:56 | 'Watermark' the image with 'Changed'. (Even an old image may help identify the object.) | |
| 14:56 | I like it (FGrose's proposal) :) | |
| 14:57 | christianmarcsch | silbe: that sounds like a reasonable solution |
| 14:57 | silbe | walterbender: sure. Think sharing a large bunch of photos. |
| 14:57 | garycmartin | silbe: 'Changes' will need to be localised, and fit in the fairly small preview images. |
| 14:58 | christianmarcsch | silbe: it may not be necessary to even indicate that it has changed |
| 14:58 | silbe | garycmartin: Good point. Though probably the existence of a banner might be enough of a hint even if it's not readable. |
| 14:58 | christianmarcsch | silbe: once i open the file in sugar, the preview will be re-generated, correct? |
| 15:00 | silbe | christianmarcsch: yes, it would. I'm worried about users getting confused that the preview shows the old version even though they did changes, and might think the changes didn't get saved. |
| 15:00 | garycmartin | silbe: Actually, I think step c) could be dropped, I'd not be too flustered seeing an old preview. Perhaps worse would be seeing the blank grey and having a panic that my data was not there anymore. |
| 15:00 | silbe | (actually opening the file would show the updated contents, of course) |
| 15:00 | christianmarcsch | silbe: i think i agree with garycmartin. a badge/watermark could be explored, but may not be necessary |
| 15:02 | silbe | ok. so definitely not "drop the image", and maybe watermark / badge / other indication of change (e.g. text label below the image). |
| 15:02 | walterbender | needs to go offline for an hour... will try to reconnect. |
| 15:02 | christianmarcsch: FYI: see the new sketches at the bottom of http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/D[…]reeform_icon_size | |
| 15:02 | thanks all. CU | |
| 15:03 | garycmartin | walterbender: thanks! |
| 15:03 | christianmarcsch | walterbender: thanks, ttyl |
| 15:03 | walterbender | likes Fred's home view toolbar proposal, FWIW |
| 15:03 | later | |
| 15:03 | silbe | garycmartin, christianmarcsch: what's your schedule? should we just interrupt the meeting until walterbender gets back? |
| 15:03 | christianmarcsch | silbe: i can probably tune in again for a little bit later today |
| 15:04 | garycmartin | silbe: yea I think that should be fine, should I end meeting for now and make today a two meeting session? |
| 15:04 | silbe | christianmarcsch: do you have a rough estimate when? |
| 15:04 | christianmarcsch | silbe: in one hour should work for me |
| 15:05 | silbe | garycmartin: Sounds good, but can we sum up the current topic quickly first? |
| 15:05 | christianmarcsch: perfect. | |
| 15:05 | garycmartin | silbe: Sure. |
| 15:05 | FGrose <FGrose!~webchatjita.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting |
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| 15:05 | christianmarcsch | great--talk to you soon |
| 15:05 | silbe | I suppose we had consensus that a)+b) are useful changes? |
| 15:06 | christianmarcsch | silbe: yes |
| 15:06 | garycmartin | silbe: so we seemed to agree that a & b are fine, and that c is not necessary. |
| 15:06 | silbe | and for c) we have consensus not to do it that way, but maybe a different way. |
| 15:07 | garycmartin | silbe: I think badging an old preview would actually be more confusing. |
| 15:08 | walterbender has quit IRC | |
| 15:08 | silbe | and as there doesn't seem to be a strong need to signal the change, we could add it after the patch landed |
| 15:08 | i.e. this decision doesn't block the patch review. | |
| 15:08 | garycmartin | silbe: Sure. |
| 15:08 | christianmarcsch | silbe: that makes sense. if there is any confusion, we can reconsider a badge/watermark |
| 15:09 | silbe | ok, I'll move the change indication idea to 0.94+ then. Let's try to see what actual users think of it. |
| 15:09 | garycmartin | #agreed a) remove the metadata if there is not an associated file; b) delete metadata if it gets corrupted (don't delete the actual file) |
| 15:10 | silbe | Not that I expect them to actually get back to us if they're getting confused, but that's a totally different matter. |
| 15:10 | #agreed c) do NOT delete the stale preview image | |
| 15:11 | garycmartin: ^ | |
| 15:11 | garycmartin | silbe: Future gazing for png/jpg/... common formats, perhaps out of date previews could be generated? |
| 15:11 | #agreed c) do NOT delete the stale preview image | |
| 15:12 | silbe | garycmartin: it would be slow, but certainly a possibility. For the details view, it might be OK if we add a "loading" animation for the preview. |
| 15:12 | garycmartin | silbe: did you omit the "Dynamically set number of control panel columns" topic intentionality? Would be real nice to finally land this dextrose based change. |
| 15:13 | silbe: details view, loading spinner sounds good. | |
| 15:13 | silbe | garycmartin: It's listed for 0.94+ as "Control Panel rework (erikos)". |
| 15:14 | garycmartin | silbe: oh well, I guess it can wait _another_ 6 months ;-) |
| 15:15 | silbe | garycmartin: Or rather, we decided to keep the current patch in master, since it makes the situation better. Label wrapping is needed no matter whether we apply the patch or not, and that's what the CP rework topic is about. |
| 15:15 | garycmartin | silbe: Understood, thanks. |
| 15:15 | OK, so we all done for 1hr? | |
| 15:15 | silbe | garycmartin: the remaining issue is made more "interesting" by a bug in recent versions of GTK. |
| 15:16 | garycmartin: yep, let's do #endmeeting now. | |
| 15:16 | christianmarcsch | talk to you in an hour |
| 15:16 | garycmartin | #endmeeting |
| 15:16 | meeting | Meeting ended Sun Feb 13 15:16:17 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4) |
| 15:16 | Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-13T14:01:43.html | |
| 15:16 | Log: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]11-02-13T14:01:43 | |
| 15:16 | silbe | thx everyone for a productive (first) meeting! |
| 15:16 | christianmarcsch has quit IRC | |
| 15:17 | garycmartin | silbe: thanks, we haven't got to any controversial design topics yet... |
| 15:17 | silbe: see you in one hour. | |
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| 16:17 | garycmartin | christianmarcsch: No sign of Walter just yet. |
| 16:17 | silbe | walterbender doesn't seem to be back yet... |
| 16:18 | christianmarcsch | no worries. i'll hang out... |
| 16:19 | silbe | garycmartin: IOW the topic arrangement was a good fit so far, ensuring we make some progress on each meeting. That's encouraging. |
| 16:20 | garycmartin | silbe: yea always good to get through the 'easy' ones first. |
| 16:23 | silbe | garycmartin: the not-so-easy ones are coming now. Please greet our trusty old friend, the Keep button. <g> |
| 16:25 | garycmartin | christianmarcsch: while we hang around, do you have any opinions on how best to incrementally tidy/update http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/H[…]erface_Guidelines ? |
| 16:25 | christianmarcsch | good question |
| 16:26 | they could definitely use some restructuring | |
| 16:26 | at least, one should go through an reconcile them with any changes that were made | |
| 16:27 | updated screenshots, etc. | |
| 16:27 | garycmartin | christianmarcsch: Ideally I could start by striking through out of date texts, add new text in a different colour/style, then post for review. |
| 16:27 | christianmarcsch | that does sound like a good start |
| 16:27 | it would be nice to actually have a proper document | |
| 16:28 | PDF format | |
| 16:28 | or something that is easier to digest | |
| 16:28 | taking the text from the wiki (the "living" document), | |
| 16:29 | silbe | christianmarcsch: perhaps FGrose knows how to produce a PDF from a wiki hierarchy? |
| 16:29 | christianmarcsch | and putting it into a more readable format |
| 16:29 | garycmartin | christianmarcsch: Ah not a live wiki. Hmm perhaps I could capture what is there now as a fixed document before making further changes? It would be nice to have such a fixed snapshot as past reference. |
| 16:29 | christianmarcsch | garycmartin:that would be great, yes |
| 16:30 | garycmartin | silbe: Easy enough for me to pull it in to an editor and format nicely. |
| 16:30 | christianmarcsch | garycmartin:i definitely think the wiki HIG should continue to exist--just suggesting that it might be useful to have a condensed/more legible version in addition |
| 16:30 | i could help with that in march | |
| 16:30 | this month is super-busy :( | |
| 16:31 | garycmartin | christianmarcsch: +1, needs to be a live document for sure. Making fixed document snapshots is a nice extra step I think. |
| 16:32 | silbe | garycmartin: ok, since you're keeping the wiki version, that sounds fine enough. I was just worried about moving the authoritative copy elsewhere. |
| 16:32 | christianmarcsch | garycmartin: i just think there is a significant amount of time investment needed to engage with the current HIG |
| 16:32 | alternatively to a separate document, maybe we could also pull out the high points of each section? | |
| 16:33 | silbe | wonders who is going to tackle the task of making the Sugar design touch screen (i.e. tablet) suitable... |
| 16:33 | christianmarcsch | silbe: that would be a really interesting project to take on |
| 16:33 | satellit__ has quit IRC | |
| 16:34 | christianmarcsch | silbe: it seems to me that we should plan for another sugarcamp, where we can hash out the details of a touch-enabled UI face-to-face |
| 16:34 | silbe | christianmarcsch: s/would/will/ - OLPC is going to produce tablets once the XO 1.75 is finished. |
| 16:34 | christianmarcsch: good idea. | |
| 16:34 | christianmarcsch | silbe: it just seems that would be more effective than working remotely |
| 16:35 | silbe: we could do another sugarcamp in cambridge... | |
| 16:35 | silbe | christianmarcsch: it usually is - the problem is getting the people physically together across continents. |
| 16:35 | garycmartin | silbe: there was talk that there would be some dev XO 1.75 with a touch layer applied to the screen to help kick start and test the touch side of development. Essential step to my mind... |
| 16:36 | silbe | I for one can't afford paying for the flight myself... |
| 16:36 | christianmarcsch | silbe: where are you based currently? |
| 16:36 | silbe | garycmartin: +1, and I'm eagerly waiting for such a model :) |
| 16:36 | christianmarcsch: Germany | |
| 16:36 | christianmarcsch | silbe: whereabouts? i may be back there this year sometime |
| 16:37 | silbe | christianmarcsch: Tübingen (near Stuttgart). Would be awesome to meet. |
| 16:37 | lucian has quit IRC | |
| 16:37 | christianmarcsch | silbe: nice. we are usually in the hamburg area... |
| 16:38 | silbe | christianmarcsch: ok, opposite side of Germany, but still better than the US. ;) |
| 16:38 | christianmarcsch | silbe: yes! i agree it would be great to meetup |
| 16:38 | to take on larger projects like a touch ui, i think we need to find a different process | |
| 16:38 | dfarning_afk is now known as dfarning | |
| 16:38 | christianmarcsch | nothing works better than just getting everyone in a room |
| 16:39 | but in absence of that, we could also try skype/video conferencing | |
| 16:39 | garycmartin | christianmarcsch: (and locking the door) |
| 16:39 | christianmarcsch | garycmartin: hah |
| 16:41 | so, should we try again in an hour? | |
| 16:41 | any word from walter? | |
| 16:43 | silbe | christianmarcsch: please let me know once your schedule is fixed. We might even be able to arrange a Sugar MiniCamp. |
| 16:43 | christianmarcsch | silbe: yes, will do. that would be great |
| 16:43 | silbe | christianmarcsch: +1 on locking the door ;) |
| 16:44 | if we do it in northern Germany, maybe even garycmartin could come and join us? | |
| 16:45 | garycmartin | silbe: Maybe, but I can't promise. Certainly a much better chance than getting over to the US. |
| 16:45 | silbe | garycmartin: Looking forward to it! |
| 16:47 | hmm, doesn't look like Walter is coming back soon... | |
| 16:47 | we could tackle the second topic already: Move more activities to the new toolbar (erikos) | |
| 16:48 | Since I don't know what feedback he wants from the design team on that topic, it would be a no-op. ;) | |
| 16:48 | garycmartin | silbe: That is more a todo task than a design decision at this moment :-) And it needs to be done! |
| 16:49 | silbe | garycmartin: It definitely does, but I'm not sure what the Design Team can do about it. Are there specific TODO items that need design decisions to be made? |
| 16:50 | garycmartin | silbe: I'm roped in to do at least mockups for Read, Paint, Record, Memorize. Simon mailed me off list for Memorize yesterday so I think he has that one in mind just now. |
| 16:51 | silbe | garycmartin: ah, I see. That are the concrete topics to (potentially) discuss / work on then. |
| 16:52 | garycmartin | silbe, christianmarcsch: should we start meeting and continue, chit chat on some items, or have another official meeting at another date? |
| 16:52 | silbe | garycmartin: FWIW, I don't mind either way. |
| 16:52 | christianmarcsch | garycmartin: i'd say schedule another official meeting |
| 16:53 | garycmartin: since i'm running out of time... | |
| 16:53 | silbe | christianmarcsch: what date and time would suit you best for the next meeting? |
| 16:53 | christianmarcsch | garycmartin: we could try next saturday/sunday |
| 16:54 | silbe: weekdays may be difficult due to the time difference | |
| 16:54 | silbe: but if we keep it short, i can also try weekday mornings | |
| 16:54 | garycmartin | silbe: The Memorize UI (toolbar) is a real pain just now if you look closely, its 'edit' and 'play' modes are almost like two separate activities (you have to save work in edit mode and separately load it back in in play mode). |
| 16:54 | silbe | christianmarcsch: as long as I get advance notice, I can make it any day. |
| 16:55 | garycmartin: ouch. (Save/Load between modes) | |
| 16:55 | christianmarcsch | silbe: i do still have a few minutes--we could try to tackle a few more issues perhaps? |
| 16:55 | silbe | christianmarcsch: we could do some brainstorming |
| 16:55 | garycmartin | silbe: christianmarcsch shall we tentatively say next Sunday at something like the same time? And confirm by email to the list? |
| 16:55 | silbe | either on 0.94 ("early future") or future topics |
| 16:56 | christianmarcsch | silbe, garycmartin: that works for me |
| 16:56 | silbe | http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Design_Team/Meetings |
| 16:56 | garycmartin, christianmarcsch: +1 | |
| 16:56 | christianmarcsch | ok great! |
| 16:56 | garycmartin | OK, I'll edit the wiki and post out to the list later. |
| 16:57 | christianmarcsch | we'll try to get through all the remaining issues next weekend |
| 16:57 | garycmartin | christianmarcsch: OK, removal of the "Keep" toolbar button from all activities. Replace that function with a "Duplicate" function in the Journal. |
| 16:58 | silbe | garycmartin: take care to reload the page as I already edited for the finished first meeting |
| 16:59 | garycmartin | christianmarcsch: Is that a painful proposal for you, or an 'about bloody time'? ;-) |
| 16:59 | silbe | <g> |
| 16:59 | christianmarcsch | garcymartin: hah. it's been a long time coming for sure... |
| 17:00 | silbe | where would be a good place to put Duplicate? |
| 17:01 | garycmartin | christianmarcsch: I still keep seeing blogs and emails from deployers and community members that are totally confused by it. I've even given up trying to explain it. |
| 17:01 | silbe: 'Duplicate' would likely just be in the pop-up palette for Journal entries. | |
| 17:02 | christianmarcsch | silbe: right, agree with garycmartin |
| 17:02 | do we currently have multiple select in the journal? | |
| 17:02 | garycmartin | christianmarcsch: Folks seem to think it's either the "Save" button and oh my I'd hate to see those kids journals with 10's of duplicate entries... |
| 17:02 | silbe | sounds good. What about the details view? That would probably be the place to do it for non-recent versions (hint ;) )... |
| 17:03 | christianmarcsch: still not yet :( | |
| 17:03 | garycmartin | christianmarcsch: multiple select. No we don't yet. |
| 17:03 | silbe | that's a topic we should try to tackling in 0.94, BTW. |
| 17:03 | (multi-select) | |
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| 17:04 | christianmarcsch | silbe: the details view would be another natural place for it. do you happen to have dcreenshots of the current journal build? |
| 17:05 | garycmartin | christianmarcsch: ...and many of the others seem to think Keep generates a new unique copy they can work on, when actually the files all share the same ID (unless that has been tweaked recently), meaning you can only ever have one 'version' open at a time, and I dread to think what happens if it is shared... |
| 17:05 | silbe | christianmarcsch: slightly outdated: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]sion-mockup-2.png |
| 17:06 | I'll do a quick now now... | |
| 17:06 | christianmarcsch | thanks! |
| 17:06 | garycmartin | silbe: Duplicate could be a more obvious button in the details view as we have more UI space there to work with. |
| 17:07 | christianmarcsch | garycmartin: it's been a while since i've looked at this, but isn't the second-to-left icon in the toolbar duplicate? |
| 17:08 | (referring to the mock silble linked to) | |
| 17:08 | garycmartin | christianmarcsch: it's listed as copy. |
| 17:09 | christianmarcsch | garycmartin: ah, i see. potential source of confusion? |
| 17:09 | garycmartin | christianmarcsch: and just puts 'it' in your copy/paste stack clipboard. |
| 17:09 | christianmarcsch | garycmartin: we'd need to make sure we distinguish the functionality. is copy even needed? |
| 17:10 | garycmartin: nevermind, i guess it would be to share elements between activities | |
| 17:11 | garycmartin | christianmarcsch: I can't say I've ever used that copy feature in anger myself, usually because activities have balked at pasting a fair amout of data types (plain text is likely the only vaguely reliable one). |
| 17:11 | silbe | http://sascha.silbe.org/tmp/jo[…]ot-20110213-1.png |
| 17:11 | http://sascha.silbe.org/tmp/jo[…]ot-20110213-2.png | |
| 17:11 | christianmarcsch | silbe: looks like i need authorization...? |
| 17:11 | garycmartin | silbe: your server is locked for me there. |
| 17:12 | silbe: "Error code explanation: 403 = Request forbidden -- authorization will not help." | |
| 17:12 | silbe | ah, sorry, forgot to chmod. The data store is usually pretty locked-down. |
| 17:12 | fixed | |
| 17:12 | I was too lazy to come up with a good title in the wiki, so I copied it out of ~/.sugar/... instead of uploading it using Browse. | |
| 17:13 | christianmarcsch | thanks silbe! i've downloaded the images, will start thinking about a button placement |
| 17:14 | silbe, garycmartin: unfortunately i have to go--being called away | |
| 17:14 | let's reschedule for next weekend | |
| 17:14 | garycmartin | OK, well lets call it quits for today, Thanks all! |
| 17:14 | christianmarcsch | thanks! |
| 17:14 | talk to you soon | |
| 17:14 | garycmartin | 'all' who am I kidding ;-) |
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| 17:15 | silbe | oops, too late :) |
| 17:15 | garycmartin | :-) |
| 17:16 | silbe | very nice meeting today. Looking forward to the next one! |
| 17:17 | garycmartin | silbe: Well we made it through some items which is always nice! |
| 17:17 | silbe: Catch you later. | |
| 17:19 | silbe | garycmartin: cu, and thanks for taking part! |
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| 19:09 | walterbender | I presume the meeting is over :P |
| 19:09 | The first hour was quite productive. Glad we got a start on these issues. I'll look at the log. | |
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![http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]:Screenshot-3.png](http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/File:Screenshot-3.png){kind=link}
![http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]sion-mockup-2.png](http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/File:Journal-version-mockup-2.png){kind=link}
![http://sascha.silbe.org/tmp/jo[…]ot-20110213-1.png](http://sascha.silbe.org/tmp/journal-screenshot-20110213-1.png){kind=link}
![http://sascha.silbe.org/tmp/jo[…]ot-20110213-2.png](http://sascha.silbe.org/tmp/journal-screenshot-20110213-2.png){kind=link}
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