« Previous day | Index | Today | Next day » Channels | Search | Join
All times shown according to UTC.
| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 00:08 | m_anish is now known as m_anish_afk | |
| 00:08 | CanoeBerry has quit IRC | |
| 00:10 | tch has quit IRC | |
| 00:14 | mchua_afk is now known as mchua | |
| 00:17 | dfarning_afk is now known as dfarning | |
| 00:55 | m_anish_afk is now known as m_anish | |
| 00:59 | dogi has quit IRC | |
| 01:06 | satellit__ has quit IRC | |
| 01:33 | alsroot is now known as alsroot_away | |
| 01:53 | dogi <dogi!~nemo c-65-96-166-32.hsd1.ma.comcast.net> has joined #sugar-meeting |
|
| 02:17 | icarito has quit IRC | |
| 02:18 | tch <tch!~tch153.46.217.201.res.adsl.dyn.click.com.py> has joined #sugar-meeting |
|
| 04:22 | dfarning is now known as dfarning_afk | |
| 04:22 | dfarning_afk is now known as dfarning | |
| 04:29 | m_anish is now known as m_anish_afk | |
| 04:31 | dfarning is now known as dfarning_afk | |
| 04:46 | CanoeBerry <CanoeBerry!CanoeBerryc-66-30-2-16.hsd1.ma.comcast.net> has joined #sugar-meeting |
|
| 06:31 | dfarning_afk is now known as dfarning | |
| 06:31 | yama` <yama`!~yama124-149-181-55.dyn.iinet.net.au> has joined #sugar-meeting |
|
| 06:31 | yama` has quit IRC | |
| 06:31 | yama` <yama`!~yamaubuntu/member/yama> has joined #sugar-meeting |
|
| 06:33 | yama has quit IRC | |
| 06:35 | Caixa15 <Caixa15!~sugar088208-100-148-220.bendbroadband.com> has joined #sugar-meeting |
|
| 06:41 | Caixa15 has quit IRC | |
| 06:57 | CanoeBerry has quit IRC | |
| 07:11 | mchua is now known as mchua_afk | |
| 08:31 | lucian has quit IRC | |
| 09:17 | dfarning is now known as dfarning_afk | |
| 09:55 | silbe <silbe!~silbetwin.sascha.silbe.org> has joined #sugar-meeting |
|
| 12:11 | alsroot_away is now known as alsroot | |
| 13:08 | Caixa15USB <Caixa15USB!~urk208-100-148-220.bendbroadband.com> has joined #sugar-meeting |
|
| 13:12 | Caixa15USB has quit IRC | |
| 13:30 | dfarning_afk is now known as dfarning | |
| 13:31 | m_anish_afk is now known as m_anish | |
| 14:35 | satellit_ is now known as satellit_afk | |
| 14:44 | m_anish is now known as m_anish_afk | |
| 14:48 | silbe has quit IRC | |
| 14:55 | satellit_afk has quit IRC | |
| 14:58 | CanoeBerry <CanoeBerry!CanoeBerryd5rmxxf1.media.mit.edu> has joined #sugar-meeting |
|
| 14:58 | m_anish_afk is now known as m_anish | |
| 15:03 | dfarning is now known as dfarning_afk | |
| 15:30 | mchua_afk is now known as mchua | |
| 15:56 | silbe <silbe!~silbetwin.sascha.silbe.org> has joined #sugar-meeting |
|
| 16:38 | dogi has quit IRC | |
| 16:46 | JT4Sugar <JT4Sugar!~chatzilla70-8-230-218.pools.spcsdns.net> has joined #sugar-meeting |
|
| 16:52 | JT4Sugar has quit IRC | |
| 17:24 | dfarning_afk is now known as dfarning | |
| 17:27 | dogi <dogi!~nemo18.111.18.126> has joined #sugar-meeting |
|
| 17:34 | mchua is now known as mchua_afk | |
| 18:16 | lucian <lucian!~lucian78-86-217-168.zone2.bethere.co.uk> has joined #sugar-meeting |
|
| 18:26 | m_anish is now known as m_anish_afk | |
| 18:29 | dogi has quit IRC | |
| 18:35 | dirakx1 <dirakx1!rafael190.156.115.38> has joined #sugar-meeting |
|
| 18:35 | dirakx has quit IRC | |
| 18:46 | dfarning is now known as dfarning_afk | |
| 19:20 | lucian_ <lucian_!~lucian78-86-217-168.zone2.bethere.co.uk> has joined #sugar-meeting |
|
| 19:22 | lucian has quit IRC | |
| 19:23 | lucian <lucian!~lucian78-86-217-168.zone2.bethere.co.uk> has joined #sugar-meeting |
|
| 19:25 | lucian_ has quit IRC | |
| 19:29 | lucian has quit IRC | |
| 19:40 | lucian <lucian!~lucian78-86-217-168.zone2.bethere.co.uk> has joined #sugar-meeting |
|
| 19:46 | lucian has quit IRC | |
| 19:50 | m_anish_afk is now known as m_anish | |
| 19:57 | icarito <icarito!~icaro190.157.140.197> has joined #sugar-meeting |
|
| 20:00 | JT4Sugar <JT4Sugar!~chatzilla184-204-68-68.pools.spcsdns.net> has joined #sugar-meeting |
|
| 20:02 | walterbender <walterbender!~webchatjita.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting |
|
| 20:02 | walterbender | icarito: you around? |
| 20:02 | bernie, cjb, alsroot, CanoeBerry, mchua_afk: trying to determine if we have a quorum | |
| 20:03 | icarito | walterbender, yes but i might not stay as my wife seems to be going into labor |
| 20:03 | bernie | walterbender: i'm not here |
| 20:03 | alsroot | hi all |
| 20:03 | bernie | :-) |
| 20:03 | walterbender | icarito: oh... family comes first!!! |
| 20:03 | icarito: very exicting | |
| 20:03 | bernie | icarito: into labor? |
| 20:03 | walterbender | ^exciting^ |
| 20:03 | cjb | here |
| 20:03 | icarito: wow :-) | |
| 20:04 | walterbender | the first Sugar baby!! |
| 20:04 | icarito | :-D |
| 20:05 | walterbender | we do have a quorum, so if you have a few minutes, we could talk about Certificates? otherwise, we could wait. |
| 20:05 | cjb | I think we should probably send icarito off to his wife :) |
| 20:05 | alsroot | walterbender: actually, at least the second, the first was produced in association w/ wadeb :) |
| 20:05 | walterbender | cjb: agreed. |
| 20:06 | alsroot: ah... but did wadeb meet his wife through Sugar? | |
| 20:06 | alsroot | hmm, it is semi sugar then.. |
| 20:07 | icarito | :-D |
| 20:07 | pflores had twins | |
| 20:07 | but yes laura is a sugar volunteer also | |
| 20:07 | walterbender | icarito: and I have two kids... |
| 20:07 | icarito | recruited her actually |
| 20:07 | yes :-D | |
| 20:08 | walterbender | icarito: but your case is unique, I think... |
| 20:08 | #startmeeting | |
| 20:08 | meeting | Meeting started Thu Feb 10 20:08:11 2011 UTC. The chair is walterbender. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 20:08 | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting | |
| 20:08 | icarito | i might leave at any point but can vote on the ML |
| 20:08 | walterbender | #topic babies |
| 20:09 | motion: SL endorses the idea that community members have kids: means more Sugar hackers in the future !! | |
| 20:10 | icarito: what is the link to the latest write up re certificates? | |
| 20:10 | did everyone see the email that icarito sent out to the lists last night? | |
| 20:11 | icarito | +1 |
| 20:11 | http://openetherpad.org/certificacion-sugarlabs | |
| 20:11 | walterbender | http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]ruary/012484.html |
| 20:11 | bernie | How is Babby Formed? |
| 20:12 | walterbender | can we have a brief discussion about the motivation for a Certification program, for the record, so that we have a basis for the discussion of how to implement it? |
| 20:13 | lucian <lucian!~lucian78-86-217-168.zone2.bethere.co.uk> has joined #sugar-meeting |
|
| 20:14 | walterbender | I'd like to end up with a motion endorsing the local labs to be able to offer certificates on behalf of SL |
| 20:14 | icarito and I have discussed the rationale, but not sure any of that discussion was ever recorded into our minutes | |
| 20:15 | In no particular order: | |
| 20:15 | icarito | i think there's no record |
| 20:15 | it'd be nice to reply on the list | |
| 20:15 | walterbender | 1. it gives local labs a tangible means of engaging with local deployments and government (and other) parties |
| 20:15 | cjb | (this all sounds good to me so far) |
| 20:16 | walterbender | 2. it gives teacher something tangible that they can use as part of their professional development |
| 20:16 | 3. it gives us an opportunity to express some of our ideas about pedagogy as we get more Sugar into the world (presuming this is part of the Certification process) | |
| 20:17 | 4. it gives us a chance to establish channels of communication with teachers | |
| 20:17 | 5. it could be a potential source of income for local labs | |
| 20:17 | icarito: there were other ideas too... | |
| 20:18 | lucian_ <lucian_!~lucian78-86-217-168.zone2.bethere.co.uk> has joined #sugar-meeting |
|
| 20:18 | walterbender | ClaudiaU: if you are around, please chime in as well |
| 20:18 | icarito | in several of latam countries there exists the figure of certifications |
| 20:18 | dfarning_afk is now known as dfarning | |
| 20:18 | icarito | such are very appreciated by teachers because it helps them improve their income |
| 20:18 | this space, if not filled by sugar labs, will be filled by others | |
| 20:18 | already happening in UY | |
| 20:19 | walterbender | icarito: yes... and this way we can have some influence on the process |
| 20:19 | ClaudiaU | hello |
| 20:19 | lucian has quit IRC | |
| 20:19 | walterbender | but we will have to make a decision as to how closely we want to monitor those already giving "unauthorized" sugar certificates, e.g., LATU |
| 20:20 | from what I know of what they are doing, it seems aligned with our goals... | |
| 20:20 | cjb | so it seems like the main decision is in what circumstances are required for us to allow a local lab to issue a Sugar certificate, if any |
| 20:20 | walterbender | but this is a can of worms we will need to face up to |
| 20:20 | cjb | do we want to sign off on the content of their training? or ensure that the price they charge isn't really high? or anything else? |
| 20:21 | icarito | cjb i think the matter is endorsing and it would be nice to set some standards |
| 20:21 | ClaudiaU | I have not thought about the cost |
| 20:21 | walterbender | cjb: I think it would be great to come up with a framework for content... icarito and ClaudiaU already are working on that. |
| 20:21 | cjb | if the proposal is just "let local labs offer certificates and we'll check up on how it goes and ask them to change what they're doing if it seems really wrong in some way", I think that's fine with me |
| 20:21 | is in a laissez-faire kind of mood today. | |
| 20:21 | icarito | walterbender, it seems LATU's arrangement is heavily "instrumental" that is not much about learning, much about , f.e. which tab opens by default in browse activity |
| 20:21 | walterbender | cjb: I don't know that we should have any say about cost... why not let the local labs work within the local market? |
| 20:21 | ClaudiaU | I think it is more than content... it is real contributions to the community that requiere that people really get involved |
| 20:22 | cjb | walterbender: right, I'm not claiming that we definitely should |
| 20:22 | ClaudiaU | and that people know the aspects of sugar, in the context, so it doesn't become a test to pass and get a certificate |
| 20:23 | the way icarito and I thought about it.. helps avoid those situations walterbender | |
| 20:24 | icarito | walterbender, +1 working with the local market but it would be nice to have transparency about cost |
| 20:24 | walterbender | I think that in the process of approving local labs, we are giving responsibility and trust... any proposal should be in concert with that trust |
| 20:24 | cjb | so how do people feel about simply authorizing all local labs to start offering certificates on whatever terms they feel like using, and letting them know that we'd like to hear about what terms they're going to do the certification under once they do it? |
| 20:24 | walterbender | cjb: sort of like the GPL |
| 20:25 | cjb | I don't think it's particularly like the GPL :-) |
| 20:25 | walterbender | so not contractual obligation to share their patches |
| 20:26 | icarito | it would be nice to recommend a license for sharing materials |
| 20:26 | ClaudiaU | I think people may welcome ideas for certification... |
| 20:27 | we can recommend something and they can addapt, no? | |
| 20:27 | cjb | icarito: are you saying we should request that they use freely-redistributable materials? |
| 20:27 | walterbender | but it would be a recommendation, not a requirement...? do we want to go so far as to require it be one of any number of copy-left licenses? |
| 20:28 | icarito | walterbender, maybe not demand but i think as with projects, that is a requirement |
| 20:28 | cjb | icarito: requirement == demand, no? |
| 20:28 | walterbender | we could say it is a requirement if they want it to be a "Sugar" certificate? |
| 20:28 | icarito | cjb, yes but i meant not giving a list of licenses |
| 20:29 | walterbender, +1 | |
| 20:29 | i meant it should be a requirement | |
| 20:29 | I suppose CC+SA | |
| 20:29 | cjb | hm, okay, so the proposal is instead "local labs can issue Sugar certificates and charge whatever they want but only if all the content they use for training is freely-redistributable under a license such as CC+SA or GFDL" |
| 20:31 | icarito | yes, and also i'd like to add that they should document the certification process publicly |
| 20:31 | not just wait for SLOBS to ask | |
| 20:31 | walterbender | where is the language we use for activity licenses? |
| 20:31 | icarito: +1 | |
| 20:31 | cjb | okay, so they have to maintain a page on our wiki explaining what content they use for training, where to download it, and perhaps what pricing they use |
| 20:32 | icarito | i'm working with local labs in trying to establish a Services Portfolio |
| 20:32 | Certification would be one of the services | |
| 20:33 | walterbender | we seem to be pretty close to a motion |
| 20:34 | still cannot find the language in the wiki where we define what we consider an acceptable license... would be nice to reuse that language if possible | |
| 20:34 | icarito | doesnt remember seeing that |
| 20:34 | cjb | I remember we linked to the fedora GoodLicenses page |
| 20:34 | but content licenses and software licenses are (necessarily) very different | |
| 20:34 | so we can't reuse that | |
| 20:35 | lucian_ has quit IRC | |
| 20:35 | alsroot | walterbender: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/O[…]#Non-FOSS_content this one? |
| 20:35 | JT4Sugar has quit IRC | |
| 20:35 | cjb | oh, that looks good |
| 20:35 | sure, let's reuse that | |
| 20:35 | JT4Sugar <JT4Sugar!~chatzilla184-204-68-68.pools.spcsdns.net> has joined #sugar-meeting |
|
| 20:36 | icarito | fyi the document ClaudiaU and I worked on is http://openetherpad.org/ep/pad[…]arlabs/eEILr2wWc4 |
| 20:36 | walterbender | alsroot: that was it :P |
| 20:36 | cjb | icarito: sorry, don't read Spanish well. |
| 20:36 | icarito | after that a jgastelu added some stuff - we'll have to work more on this with the community |
| 20:38 | note: i personally would like it more if we pointed to free software material instead of open source but i don't want to start a debate | |
| 20:39 | cjb | icarito: I think we just couldn't find a similar document that did that |
| 20:39 | feel free to suggest an alternative | |
| 20:39 | icarito | ok |
| 20:40 | cjb, there is the Free Software Definition : http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html | |
| 20:40 | alsroot | icarito: I think, the point in OSS vs. FOSS, here is, can people resuse the material in free form |
| 20:40 | so, we need to mention exactly this point, not what is it OSS or FOSS | |
| 20:41 | cjb | alsroot: sure, but we're trying to precise about what that means |
| 20:41 | icarito | alsroot, still linking to a carefully written document is a good idea |
| 20:41 | walterbender | Motion: Local labs can issue Sugar certificates (and charge for this service whatever they want) but only if: (1) they maintain a page on our wiki explaining what content they use for training, where to download it, and what pricing they use; and (2) all the content they use for training is licensed under one of the licenses recommend by http://opensource.org/docs/osd and/or http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/[…]ing#Good_Licenses. We will con |
| 20:42 | ClaudiaU | sounds good |
| 20:43 | walterbender | ...question. |
| 20:43 | any comments? | |
| 20:43 | alsroot | is pricing is important here, it might too different from region to regiion |
| 20:44 | important to mention.. | |
| 20:44 | cjb | walterbender: It got chopped off at "We will con" |
| 20:44 | walterbender | alsroot: yes... we agree it will be a local market decision... we just want transparency |
| 20:44 | cjb | can you paste what came after that? |
| 20:44 | icarito | question, should local labs derive a % of their income to global labs? |
| 20:44 | walterbender | ...We will consult with the SFC for advice when a particular license is under question. |
| 20:45 | icarito: good question, but perhaps orthoganal... it would apply to any local-lab revenue, no? | |
| 20:45 | cjb | walterbender: ah, very good |
| 20:45 | icarito: I guess my intuition would be that no, they shouldn't have to | |
| 20:45 | walterbender | icarito: to date, we have never asked for anything coming back to SL central |
| 20:45 | (except patches) | |
| 20:46 | icarito | agreed its orthogonal but we shuold dicuss this issue |
| 20:46 | at some point | |
| 20:46 | walterbender | icarito: yes. in fact I have another discussion topic where this will come up |
| 20:46 | alsroot | is -1 for "% of their income to global labs", in my mind it should entirely for local needs, as already was saind transparency is quite enough |
| 20:46 | icarito | also I agree but I would substitute fedora's document for http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html |
| 20:46 | walterbender | alsroot: +1 to your -1 |
| 20:48 | cjb | okay. walter, I second your motion.. |
| 20:48 | icarito | still +1 |
| 20:48 | cjb | we could either vote now or just mail it to slobs/iaep |
| 20:48 | and have the votes happen there | |
| 20:48 | walterbender | no reason not to vote now, those of us who are present. |
| 20:48 | icarito | +1 for mail as i might have t leave |
| 20:48 | cjb | okay, +1 |
| 20:49 | alsroot | +1 |
| 20:49 | walterbender | icarito: to me, the gnu doc. is a manifesto, the fedora document is a list of licenses that are aligned with the manifesto |
| 20:49 | walterbender: +1 | |
| 20:49 | I'll ask bernie and mchua_afk and CanoeBerry to vote by email. | |
| 20:49 | but the motion passes!! | |
| 20:50 | icarito, ClaudiaU can yo guys work on the web page? | |
| 20:50 | icaritox <icaritox!~icaro201.234.185.33> has joined #sugar-meeting |
|
| 20:50 | walterbender | but are we done with this topic for today? |
| 20:51 | icarito: attend to your wife... | |
| 20:51 | icaritox | walterbender, ok i will now agreed the doc is secondry atm |
| 20:51 | walterbender | I have another topic I want to raise... more informational but perhaps controversial |
| 20:51 | icaritox | then replce the osd doc |
| 20:52 | ClaudiaU | sorry.. I was on a call |
| 20:52 | cjb | walterbender: so I guess a reason to have had the voting/debate on list is that the people who aren't here might have had something to contribute |
| 20:52 | walterbender | icaritox: let's refer to the gnu doc when we explain the rationale behind our requirement on the wiki page |
| 20:52 | ClaudiaU | what webpage? |
| 20:53 | cjb | walterbender: but now it's an end-run |
| 20:53 | walterbender: so, just for future: there are reasons to postpone a vote to the lists even if we have just about enough people in the meeting | |
| 20:53 | walterbender | cjb: we have been discussing this on the lists for a while.. but perhaps not enough... perhaps too much of the discussion has been in irc |
| 20:54 | icarito has quit IRC | |
| 20:54 | walterbender | cjb: but we could have a policy that we never pass a motion at the same meeting in which is it raised... |
| 20:55 | cjb: maybe motions should be passed in email. | |
| 20:55 | so people have a chance to chime in in an asynchronous medium | |
| 20:55 | cjb | walterbender: I don't think it's necessary to wait a week *if* we're all here |
| 20:55 | but I bet mchua or bernie might have had interesting comments and I would have liked to hear them before passing the motion | |
| 20:56 | walterbender | all as in SLOBs or all as in community? |
| 20:56 | cjb | heh, there's that too |
| 20:56 | walterbender | I was more concerned about community feedback, since I think most SLOBs have been in the loop on these discussions... but perhaps not. |
| 20:57 | as I mentioned, a lot of the discussion has been in #sugar | |
| 20:57 | and there was some discussion in #olpc-apprendiz | |
| 20:59 | I don't think most SLOB decisions are so timely that a week makes a difference... on the other hand, if someone raises a post-hoc objection, we can always revisit our vote | |
| 20:59 | cjb | okay. well, no need to spend a lot of time talking about it; just a thought. |
| 20:59 | walterbender | cjb: it is good to keep us on our toes... |
| 21:00 | cjb | I guess we could pass a motion now that says that we cancel the last vote, and want to send out the motion to iaep/slobs now, and then start voting on it by e-mail in a day or two |
| 21:00 | would people find that an improvement? | |
| 21:01 | walterbender | I think it is unnecessary. but when I send out the request for the additional votes, I can mention the fact that we can revisit if there are objects that had not been aired |
| 21:01 | yama <yama!~yama124-169-8-52.dyn.iinet.net.au> has joined #sugar-meeting |
|
| 21:01 | yama has quit IRC | |
| 21:01 | yama <yama!~yamaubuntu/member/yama> has joined #sugar-meeting |
|
| 21:01 | cjb | okay! |
| 21:02 | (there's a difference between having useful input that didn't get considered, and objecting to the final result -- I think we should ask for both input and objections.) | |
| 21:02 | thanks | |
| 21:02 | CanoeBerry | just reread the backlog fast, struggling to keep up, our 800 number (AKA email support requests) keeps ringing off the hook.. |
| 21:02 | walterbender | ok... well it is after 4. we should call the meeting to an end... |
| 21:03 | meet again next week or in two weeks? | |
| 21:03 | cjb | either's fine with me |
| 21:04 | yama` has quit IRC | |
| 21:04 | walterbender | Let's aim for next week. I have a couple of interesting things I want to discuss. |
| 21:04 | thanks everyone... I am glad we are moving forward on the Certificate program. | |
| 21:04 | cjb | ok |
| 21:04 | walterbender | #endmeeting |
| 21:04 | meeting | Meeting ended Thu Feb 10 21:04:38 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4) |
| 21:04 | Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-10T20:08:11.html | |
| 21:04 | Log: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]11-02-10T20:08:11 | |
| 21:05 | JT4Sugar has quit IRC | |
| 21:08 | dfarning is now known as dfarning_afk | |
| 21:08 | lucian_ <lucian_!~lucian78-86-217-168.zone2.bethere.co.uk> has joined #sugar-meeting |
|
| 21:15 | icaritox has quit IRC | |
| 21:36 | dfarning_afk is now known as dfarning | |
| 21:37 | dfarning is now known as dfarning_afk | |
| 21:39 | satellit__ <satellit__!~satellit72-254-56-57.client.stsn.net> has joined #sugar-meeting |
|
| 21:39 | dfarning_afk is now known as dfarning | |
| 21:41 | satellit__ | testing connection from Beverton OR Marriot on Ubuntu10.10 VM Xchat (Macbook Air) |
| 21:41 | satellit__ has quit IRC | |
| 21:43 | satellit__IRCsug <satellit__IRCsug!~urk72-254-56-57.client.stsn.net> has joined #sugar-meeting |
|
| 21:43 | satellit__IRCsug | irc on same VM via Sugar...neat |
| 21:44 | satellit__IRCsug has quit IRC | |
| 21:48 | m_anish is now known as m_anish_afk | |
| 21:49 | walterbender | heads home from cambridge |
| 21:56 | walterbender has quit IRC | |
| 22:06 | dfarning is now known as dfarning_afk | |
| 22:11 | lucian_ is now known as lucian | |
| 22:25 | satellit__ <satellit__!~urk72-254-56-57.client.stsn.net> has joined #sugar-meeting |
|
| 22:41 | satellit__ has quit IRC | |
| 22:56 | tch has quit IRC | |
| 23:01 | dfarning_afk is now known as dfarning | |
| 23:05 | dfarning is now known as dfarning_afk | |
| 23:11 | silbe has quit IRC | |
| 23:24 | dogi <dogi!~nemoc-65-96-166-32.hsd1.ma.comcast.net> has joined #sugar-meeting |
« Previous day | Index | Today | Next day » Channels | Search | Join