Web   ·   Wiki   ·   Activities   ·   Blog   ·   Lists   ·   Chat   ·   Meeting   ·   Bugs   ·   Git   ·   Translate   ·   Archive   ·   People   ·   Donate

#sugar-meeting, 2011-02-10

 « Previous day | Index | Today | Next day »     Channels | Search | Join

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:08 m_anish is now known as m_anish_afk
00:08 CanoeBerry has quit IRC
00:10 tch has quit IRC
00:14 mchua_afk is now known as mchua
00:17 dfarning_afk is now known as dfarning
00:55 m_anish_afk is now known as m_anish
00:59 dogi has quit IRC
01:06 satellit__ has quit IRC
01:33 alsroot is now known as alsroot_away
01:53 dogi <dogi!~nemo@c-65-96-166-32.hsd1.ma.comcast.net> has joined #sugar-meeting
02:17 icarito has quit IRC
02:18 tch <tch!~tch@> has joined #sugar-meeting
04:22 dfarning is now known as dfarning_afk
04:22 dfarning_afk is now known as dfarning
04:29 m_anish is now known as m_anish_afk
04:31 dfarning is now known as dfarning_afk
04:46 CanoeBerry <CanoeBerry!CanoeBerry@c-66-30-2-16.hsd1.ma.comcast.net> has joined #sugar-meeting
06:31 dfarning_afk is now known as dfarning
06:31 yama` <yama`!~yama@124-149-181-55.dyn.iinet.net.au> has joined #sugar-meeting
06:31 yama` has quit IRC
06:31 yama` <yama`!~yama@ubuntu/member/yama> has joined #sugar-meeting
06:33 yama has quit IRC
06:35 Caixa15 <Caixa15!~sugar088@208-100-148-220.bendbroadband.com> has joined #sugar-meeting
06:41 Caixa15 has quit IRC
06:57 CanoeBerry has quit IRC
07:11 mchua is now known as mchua_afk
08:31 lucian has quit IRC
09:17 dfarning is now known as dfarning_afk
09:55 silbe <silbe!~silbe@twin.sascha.silbe.org> has joined #sugar-meeting
12:11 alsroot_away is now known as alsroot
13:08 Caixa15USB <Caixa15USB!~urk@208-100-148-220.bendbroadband.com> has joined #sugar-meeting
13:12 Caixa15USB has quit IRC
13:30 dfarning_afk is now known as dfarning
13:31 m_anish_afk is now known as m_anish
14:35 satellit_ is now known as satellit_afk
14:44 m_anish is now known as m_anish_afk
14:48 silbe has quit IRC
14:55 satellit_afk has quit IRC
14:58 CanoeBerry <CanoeBerry!CanoeBerry@d5rmxxf1.media.mit.edu> has joined #sugar-meeting
14:58 m_anish_afk is now known as m_anish
15:03 dfarning is now known as dfarning_afk
15:30 mchua_afk is now known as mchua
15:56 silbe <silbe!~silbe@twin.sascha.silbe.org> has joined #sugar-meeting
16:38 dogi has quit IRC
16:46 JT4Sugar <JT4Sugar!~chatzilla@70-8-230-218.pools.spcsdns.net> has joined #sugar-meeting
16:52 JT4Sugar has quit IRC
17:24 dfarning_afk is now known as dfarning
17:27 dogi <dogi!~nemo@> has joined #sugar-meeting
17:34 mchua is now known as mchua_afk
18:16 lucian <lucian!~lucian@78-86-217-168.zone2.bethere.co.uk> has joined #sugar-meeting
18:26 m_anish is now known as m_anish_afk
18:29 dogi has quit IRC
18:35 dirakx1 <dirakx1!rafael@> has joined #sugar-meeting
18:35 dirakx has quit IRC
18:46 dfarning is now known as dfarning_afk
19:20 lucian_ <lucian_!~lucian@78-86-217-168.zone2.bethere.co.uk> has joined #sugar-meeting
19:22 lucian has quit IRC
19:23 lucian <lucian!~lucian@78-86-217-168.zone2.bethere.co.uk> has joined #sugar-meeting
19:25 lucian_ has quit IRC
19:29 lucian has quit IRC
19:40 lucian <lucian!~lucian@78-86-217-168.zone2.bethere.co.uk> has joined #sugar-meeting
19:46 lucian has quit IRC
19:50 m_anish_afk is now known as m_anish
19:57 icarito <icarito!~icaro@> has joined #sugar-meeting
20:00 JT4Sugar <JT4Sugar!~chatzilla@184-204-68-68.pools.spcsdns.net> has joined #sugar-meeting
20:02 walterbender <walterbender!~webchat@jita.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting
20:02 walterbender icarito: you around?
20:02 bernie, cjb, alsroot, CanoeBerry, mchua_afk: trying to determine if we have a quorum
20:03 icarito walterbender, yes but i might not stay as my wife seems to be going into labor
20:03 bernie walterbender: i'm not here
20:03 alsroot hi all
20:03 bernie :-)
20:03 walterbender icarito: oh... family comes first!!!
20:03 icarito: very exicting
20:03 bernie icarito: into labor?
20:03 walterbender ^exciting^
20:03 cjb here
20:03 icarito: wow :-)
20:04 walterbender the first Sugar baby!!
20:04 icarito :-D
20:05 walterbender we do have a quorum, so if you have a few minutes, we could talk about Certificates? otherwise, we could wait.
20:05 cjb I think we should probably send icarito off to his wife :)
20:05 alsroot walterbender: actually, at least the second, the first was produced in association w/ wadeb :)
20:05 walterbender cjb: agreed.
20:06 alsroot: ah... but did wadeb meet his wife through Sugar?
20:06 alsroot hmm, it is semi sugar then..
20:07 icarito :-D
20:07 pflores had twins
20:07 but yes laura is a sugar volunteer also
20:07 walterbender icarito: and I have two kids...
20:07 icarito recruited her actually
20:07 yes :-D
20:08 walterbender icarito: but your case is unique, I think...
20:08 #startmeeting
20:08 meeting Meeting started Thu Feb 10 20:08:11 2011 UTC. The chair is walterbender. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:08 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
20:08 icarito i might leave at any point but can vote on the ML
20:08 walterbender #topic babies
20:09 motion: SL endorses the idea that community members have kids: means more Sugar hackers in the future !!
20:10 icarito: what is the link to the latest write up re certificates?
20:10 did everyone see the email that icarito sent out to the lists last night?
20:11 icarito +1
20:11 http://openetherpad.org/certificacion-sugarlabs
20:11 walterbender http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]ruary/012484.html
20:11 bernie How is Babby Formed?
20:12 walterbender can we have a brief discussion about the motivation for a Certification program, for the record, so that we have a basis for the discussion of how to implement it?
20:13 lucian <lucian!~lucian@78-86-217-168.zone2.bethere.co.uk> has joined #sugar-meeting
20:14 walterbender I'd like to end up with a motion endorsing the local labs to be able to offer certificates on behalf of SL
20:14 icarito and I have discussed the rationale, but not sure any of that discussion was ever recorded into our minutes
20:15 In no particular order:
20:15 icarito i think there's no record
20:15 it'd be nice to reply on the list
20:15 walterbender 1. it gives local labs a tangible means of engaging with local deployments and government (and other) parties
20:15 cjb (this all sounds good to me so far)
20:16 walterbender 2. it gives teacher something tangible that they can use as part of their professional development
20:16 3. it gives us an opportunity to express some of our ideas about pedagogy as we get more Sugar into the world (presuming this is part of the Certification process)
20:17 4. it gives us a chance to establish channels of communication with teachers
20:17 5. it could be a potential source of income for local labs
20:17 icarito: there were other ideas too...
20:18 lucian_ <lucian_!~lucian@78-86-217-168.zone2.bethere.co.uk> has joined #sugar-meeting
20:18 walterbender ClaudiaU: if you are around, please chime in as well
20:18 icarito in several of latam countries there exists the figure of certifications
20:18 dfarning_afk is now known as dfarning
20:18 icarito such are very appreciated by teachers because it helps them improve their income
20:18 this space, if not filled by sugar labs, will be filled by others
20:18 already happening in UY
20:19 walterbender icarito: yes... and this way we can have some influence on the process
20:19 ClaudiaU hello
20:19 lucian has quit IRC
20:19 walterbender but we will have to make a decision as to how closely we want to monitor those already giving "unauthorized" sugar certificates, e.g., LATU
20:20 from what I know of what they are doing,  it seems aligned with our goals...
20:20 cjb so it seems like the main decision is in what circumstances are required for us to allow a local lab to issue a Sugar certificate, if any
20:20 walterbender but this is a can of worms we will need to face up to
20:20 cjb do we want to sign off on the content of their training?  or ensure that the price they charge isn't really high?  or anything else?
20:21 icarito cjb i think the matter is endorsing and it would be nice to set some standards
20:21 ClaudiaU I have not thought about the cost
20:21 walterbender cjb: I think it would be great to come up with a framework for content... icarito and ClaudiaU already are working on that.
20:21 cjb if the proposal is just "let local labs offer certificates and we'll check up on how it goes and ask them to change what they're doing if it seems really wrong in some way", I think that's fine with me
20:21 is in a laissez-faire kind of mood today.
20:21 icarito walterbender, it seems LATU's arrangement is heavily "instrumental" that is not much about learning, much about , f.e. which tab opens by default in browse activity
20:21 walterbender cjb: I don't know that we should have any say about cost... why not let the local labs work within the local market?
20:21 ClaudiaU I think it is more than content... it is real contributions to the community that requiere that people really get involved
20:22 cjb walterbender: right, I'm not claiming that we definitely should
20:22 ClaudiaU and that people know the aspects of sugar, in the context, so it doesn't become a test to pass and get a certificate
20:23 the way icarito and I thought about it.. helps avoid those situations walterbender
20:24 icarito walterbender, +1 working with the local market but it would be nice to have transparency about cost
20:24 walterbender I think that in the process of approving local labs, we are giving responsibility and trust... any proposal should be in concert with that trust
20:24 cjb so how do people feel about simply authorizing all local labs to start offering certificates on whatever terms they feel like using, and letting them know that we'd like to hear about what terms they're going to do the certification under once they do it?
20:24 walterbender cjb: sort of like the GPL
20:25 cjb I don't think it's particularly like the GPL :-)
20:25 walterbender so not contractual obligation to share their patches
20:26 icarito it would be nice to recommend a license for sharing materials
20:26 ClaudiaU I think people may welcome ideas for certification...
20:27 we can recommend something and they can addapt, no?
20:27 cjb icarito: are you saying we should request that they use freely-redistributable materials?
20:27 walterbender but it would be a recommendation, not a requirement...? do we want to go so far as to require it be one of any number of copy-left licenses?
20:28 icarito walterbender, maybe not demand but i think as with projects, that is a requirement
20:28 cjb icarito: requirement == demand, no?
20:28 walterbender we could say it is a requirement if they want it to be a "Sugar" certificate?
20:28 icarito cjb, yes but i meant not giving a list of licenses
20:29 walterbender, +1
20:29 i meant it should be a requirement
20:29 I suppose CC+SA
20:29 cjb hm, okay, so the proposal is instead "local labs can issue Sugar certificates and charge whatever they want but only if all the content they use for training is freely-redistributable under a license such as CC+SA or GFDL"
20:31 icarito yes, and also i'd like to add that they should document the certification process publicly
20:31 not just wait for SLOBS to ask
20:31 walterbender where is the language we use for activity licenses?
20:31 icarito: +1
20:31 cjb okay, so they have to maintain a page on our wiki explaining what content they use for training, where to download it, and perhaps what pricing they use
20:32 icarito i'm working with local labs in trying to establish a Services Portfolio
20:32 Certification would be one of the services
20:33 walterbender we seem to be pretty close to a motion
20:34 still cannot find the language in the wiki where we define what we consider an acceptable license... would be nice to reuse that language if possible
20:34 icarito doesnt remember seeing that
20:34 cjb I remember we linked to the fedora GoodLicenses page
20:34 but content licenses and software licenses are (necessarily) very different
20:34 so we can't reuse that
20:35 lucian_ has quit IRC
20:35 alsroot walterbender: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/O[…]#Non-FOSS_content this one?
20:35 JT4Sugar has quit IRC
20:35 cjb oh, that looks good
20:35 sure, let's reuse that
20:35 JT4Sugar <JT4Sugar!~chatzilla@184-204-68-68.pools.spcsdns.net> has joined #sugar-meeting
20:36 icarito fyi the document ClaudiaU and I worked on is http://openetherpad.org/ep/pad[…]arlabs/eEILr2wWc4
20:36 walterbender alsroot: that was it :P
20:36 cjb icarito: sorry, don't read Spanish well.
20:36 icarito after that a jgastelu added some stuff - we'll have to work more on this with the community
20:38 note: i personally would like it more if we pointed to free software material instead of open source but i don't want to start a debate
20:39 cjb icarito: I think we just couldn't find a similar document that did that
20:39 feel free to suggest an alternative
20:39 icarito ok
20:40 cjb, there is the Free Software Definition : http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
20:40 alsroot icarito: I think, the point in OSS vs. FOSS, here is, can people resuse the material in free form
20:40 so, we need to mention exactly this point, not what is it OSS or FOSS
20:41 cjb alsroot: sure, but we're trying to precise about what that means
20:41 icarito alsroot, still linking to a carefully written document is a good idea
20:41 walterbender Motion: Local labs can issue Sugar certificates (and charge for this service whatever they want) but only if: (1) they maintain a page on our wiki explaining what content they use for training, where to download it, and what pricing they use; and (2) all the content they use for training is licensed under one of the licenses recommend by http://opensource.org/docs/osd and/or http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/[…]ing#Good_Licenses. We will con
20:42 ClaudiaU sounds good
20:43 walterbender ...question.
20:43 any comments?
20:43 alsroot is pricing is important here, it might too different from region to regiion
20:44 important to mention..
20:44 cjb walterbender: It got chopped off at "We will con"
20:44 walterbender alsroot: yes... we agree it will be a local market decision... we just want transparency
20:44 cjb can you paste what came after that?
20:44 icarito question, should local labs derive a % of their income to global labs?
20:44 walterbender ...We will consult with the SFC for advice when a particular license is under question.
20:45 icarito: good question, but perhaps orthoganal... it would apply to any local-lab revenue, no?
20:45 cjb walterbender: ah, very good
20:45 icarito: I guess my intuition would be that no, they shouldn't have to
20:45 walterbender icarito: to date, we have never asked for anything coming back to SL central
20:45 (except patches)
20:46 icarito agreed its orthogonal but we shuold dicuss this issue
20:46 at some point
20:46 walterbender icarito: yes. in fact I have another discussion topic where this will come up
20:46 alsroot is -1 for "% of their income to global labs", in my mind it should entirely for local needs, as already was saind transparency is quite enough
20:46 icarito also I agree but I would substitute fedora's document for http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
20:46 walterbender alsroot: +1 to your -1
20:48 cjb okay.  walter, I second your motion..
20:48 icarito still +1
20:48 cjb we could either vote now or just mail it to slobs/iaep
20:48 and have the votes happen there
20:48 walterbender no reason not to vote now, those of us who are present.
20:48 icarito +1 for mail as i might have t leave
20:48 cjb okay, +1
20:49 alsroot +1
20:49 walterbender icarito: to me, the gnu doc. is a manifesto, the fedora document is a list of licenses that are aligned with the manifesto
20:49 walterbender: +1
20:49 I'll ask bernie and mchua_afk and CanoeBerry to vote by email.
20:49 but the motion passes!!
20:50 icarito, ClaudiaU can yo guys work on the web page?
20:50 icaritox <icaritox!~icaro@> has joined #sugar-meeting
20:50 walterbender but are we done with this topic for today?
20:51 icarito: attend to your wife...
20:51 icaritox walterbender, ok i will now agreed the doc is secondry atm
20:51 walterbender I have another topic I want to raise... more informational but perhaps controversial
20:51 icaritox then replce the osd doc
20:52 ClaudiaU sorry.. I was on a call
20:52 cjb walterbender: so I guess a reason to have had the voting/debate on list is that the people who aren't here might have had something to contribute
20:52 walterbender icaritox: let's refer to the gnu doc when we explain the rationale behind our requirement on the wiki page
20:52 ClaudiaU what webpage?
20:53 cjb walterbender: but now it's an end-run
20:53 walterbender: so, just for future:  there are reasons to postpone a vote to the lists even if we have just about enough people in the meeting
20:53 walterbender cjb: we have been discussing this on the lists for a while.. but perhaps not enough... perhaps too much of the discussion has been in irc
20:54 icarito has quit IRC
20:54 walterbender cjb: but we could have a policy that we never pass a motion at the same meeting in which is it raised...
20:55 cjb: maybe motions should be passed in email.
20:55 so people have a chance to chime in in an asynchronous medium
20:55 cjb walterbender: I don't think it's necessary to wait a week *if* we're all here
20:55 but I bet mchua or bernie might have had interesting comments and I would have liked to hear them before passing the motion
20:56 walterbender all as in SLOBs or all as in community?
20:56 cjb heh, there's that too
20:56 walterbender I was more concerned about community feedback, since I think most SLOBs have been in the loop on these discussions... but perhaps not.
20:57 as I mentioned, a lot of the discussion has been in #sugar
20:57 and there was some discussion in #olpc-apprendiz
20:59 I don't think most SLOB decisions are so timely that a week makes a difference... on the other hand, if someone raises a post-hoc objection, we can always revisit our vote
20:59 cjb okay.  well, no need to spend a lot of time talking about it; just a thought.
20:59 walterbender cjb: it is good to keep us on our toes...
21:00 cjb I guess we could pass a motion now that says that we cancel the last vote, and want to send out the motion to iaep/slobs now, and then start voting on it by e-mail in a day or two
21:00 would people find that an improvement?
21:01 walterbender I think it is unnecessary. but when I send out the request for the additional votes, I can mention the fact that we can revisit if there are objects that had not been aired
21:01 yama <yama!~yama@124-169-8-52.dyn.iinet.net.au> has joined #sugar-meeting
21:01 yama has quit IRC
21:01 yama <yama!~yama@ubuntu/member/yama> has joined #sugar-meeting
21:01 cjb okay!
21:02 (there's a difference between having useful input that didn't get considered, and objecting to the final result -- I think we should ask for both input and objections.)
21:02 thanks
21:02 CanoeBerry just reread the backlog fast, struggling to keep up, our 800 number (AKA email support requests) keeps ringing off the hook..
21:02 walterbender ok... well it is after 4. we should call the meeting to an end...
21:03 meet again next week or in two weeks?
21:03 cjb either's fine with me
21:04 yama` has quit IRC
21:04 walterbender Let's aim for next week. I have a couple of interesting things I want to discuss.
21:04 thanks everyone... I am glad we are moving forward on the Certificate program.
21:04 cjb ok
21:04 walterbender #endmeeting
21:04 meeting Meeting ended Thu Feb 10 21:04:38 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
21:04 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-10T20:08:11.html
21:04 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]11-02-10T20:08:11
21:05 JT4Sugar has quit IRC
21:08 dfarning is now known as dfarning_afk
21:08 lucian_ <lucian_!~lucian@78-86-217-168.zone2.bethere.co.uk> has joined #sugar-meeting
21:15 icaritox has quit IRC
21:36 dfarning_afk is now known as dfarning
21:37 dfarning is now known as dfarning_afk
21:39 satellit__ <satellit__!~satellit@72-254-56-57.client.stsn.net> has joined #sugar-meeting
21:39 dfarning_afk is now known as dfarning
21:41 satellit__ testing connection from Beverton OR Marriot on Ubuntu10.10 VM Xchat (Macbook Air)
21:41 satellit__ has quit IRC
21:43 satellit__IRCsug <satellit__IRCsug!~urk@72-254-56-57.client.stsn.net> has joined #sugar-meeting
21:43 satellit__IRCsug irc on same VM via Sugar...neat
21:44 satellit__IRCsug has quit IRC
21:48 m_anish is now known as m_anish_afk
21:49 walterbender heads home from cambridge
21:56 walterbender has quit IRC
22:06 dfarning is now known as dfarning_afk
22:11 lucian_ is now known as lucian
22:25 satellit__ <satellit__!~urk@72-254-56-57.client.stsn.net> has joined #sugar-meeting
22:41 satellit__ has quit IRC
22:56 tch has quit IRC
23:01 dfarning_afk is now known as dfarning
23:05 dfarning is now known as dfarning_afk
23:11 silbe has quit IRC
23:24 dogi <dogi!~nemo@c-65-96-166-32.hsd1.ma.comcast.net> has joined #sugar-meeting

 « Previous day | Index | Today | Next day »     Channels | Search | Join

Powered by ilbot/Modified.