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#sugar-meeting, 2011-02-02

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21:03 pflores_ hi!
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21:03 pflores_ I had a blackout at home and light just came back ! :(
21:04 garycmartin pflores_: Hi.
21:04 JT4sugar Hello
21:06 pflores_ Ok!
21:06 who's around?
21:06 silbe is there, but will leave soon
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21:07 pflores_ just a second and we #startmeeting
21:08 #startmeeting
21:08 meeting Meeting started Wed Feb  2 21:08:41 2011 UTC. The chair is pflores_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
21:08 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
21:08 pflores_ #topic intro
21:09 icaritox hola
21:09 pflores_ Ok, let me introduce some ideas
21:09 icaritox: hola Sebasti
21:10 dfarning_afk is now known as dfarning
21:10 icaritox :-)
21:10 icaritox is now known as icarito
21:10 pflores_ Last week we started a high-level discussion around which tools would be the most necessary for the community
21:11 The community is something very broad
21:11 we have developers, teachers, students, families...
21:11 they all have needs and contributions
21:12 dfarning sorry for being late... kids needed a sack after school
21:12 pflores_ today I'd like to focus for a while on teacher's participation
21:13 which tools would be useful for integrating better teachers to the community, so they can participate
21:14 dfarning pflores_, what have you learned through your work at Ceibal Jam?
21:14 pflores_ from the pov of developers it's important to have teacher's feedback
21:15 dfarning I found teachers have a lot of experience but it's very difficult for them to share it
21:15 most of them work on their own
21:16 dfarning pflores_, how about skipping the teacher feed back to developers step.... that is going to be really have becuase of the language and experience differences.
21:16 pflores_ most teachers don't have the skills or the patience for having a blog
21:16 JT4sugar Developing forums at Grade and Age level allowing Teachers to express how they are using Sugar to teach litearcy, math, science, etc. When Teachers see information that they can directly use with their age students I think teacher participation will spike upward
21:16 dfarning pflores_, how about helping teachers become effective?
21:17 pflores_ if teachers share some info about what they're doing they're helping developers a lot
21:18 and also they can be more effective not working so alone
21:18 icarito i think there is a strong matter of motivation
21:18 teachers already perceive working with ICT as "more work"
21:19 and there is a language barrier in the community
21:19 dfarning pflores_, yes, the feedback loop it is very helpful.... it is also one one of the hardest pieces.  As icarito we need to make  itc easier for teachers
21:19 icarito we have so much material but its scattered all over
21:20 so there is a problem of motivation, and a problem of organization of information like JT4sugar mentioned
21:20 pflores_ ok
21:20 icarito i read past meeting log, pflores_ discussed tagging
21:21 tagging is interesting but relevant info is all over several places, wiki, blogs, etc
21:21 pflores_ we may not be able to do much for motivation, but if teachers can collaborate they can have less work
21:21 some teachers found it out
21:21 icarito pflores_, do you have a proposal? you mentioned microblogging
21:22 pflores_ and look at some teacher's blogs to prepare their lessons
21:22 icarito i think that might as well be a good answer
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21:22 pflores_ icarito right!
21:23 icarito it would be great to aggregate / federate feeds from different systems like wiki
21:23 pflores_ my proposal big picture is the 5 points I proposed for today
21:23 1. Aggregate feeds from blogs, websites, wikis & aslo.
21:23 2. Show what's happening in mailing lists, highlight important discussions
21:23 3. Broadcast some info of what happens on IRC channels
21:23 4. Integrate social networks (identi.ca/twitter, facebook, uhloh, ...) info.
21:23 5. Integrate OLPCmap info
21:23 icarito we have something like that in http://somosazucar.org/
21:23 look at section "En la comunidad"
21:23 pflores_ # topic 1. Aggregate feeds from blogs, websites, wikis & aslo.
21:24 icarito:I saw it and I'd like to learn more about it
21:24 icarito it aggregates the sugar digest, the somosazucar blog, and the #somosazucar tag @identi.ca
21:24 pflores_ icarito: which tool did you use?
21:24 icarito its a plugin for wordpress called lifestream
21:24 http://www.enthropia.com/labs/wp-lifestream/
21:25 now there are interesting missing features in it:
21:25 1.- ability to feed the aggregated stream into a status.net microblog
21:25 and
21:26 2.- ability to generate a weekly digest that could be sent to the mailing list
21:26 pflores_ looks good
21:26 I wonder if there's no similar module for drupal
21:26 icarito pflores_, yes we'd basically have to mantain a list of RSS feeds to aggregate
21:27 JT4sugar Teachers have only so much time so they look to engage with information that directly applies to their students. Creating spaces/forums for collaborating at Grade level is key. Example 1 Teaching Fourth Grade Math with Sugar. Example 2 Using Sugar to improve literacy for 2nd Graders. So forums for each grade and each subject within that grade
21:28 pflores_ JT4sugar: I aggree.
21:28 JT4sugar An aggregator to bring this information together for developers or others in community to see a bigger picture view
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21:29 pflores_ I find the best would be integrating 5 kinds of tools:
21:29 garycmartin pflores_: How does this differ from http://planet.sugarlabs.org/ ?
21:29 pflores_ I) aggregation II) microblogging tools III) social tagging IV) translation V) search tools
21:30 garycmartin: integrating ^
21:30 dfarning JT4sugar, that is also my concern.  An aregator is good for the big picture.  but not really a help for a teacher who's class will be using sugar next term and has to learn something quickly.
21:31 icarito i think I, II, and V would be relatively simple
21:31 pflores_ III would be useful for what JT4sugar says about organizin information
21:32 icarito tagging and translation require work
21:32 pflores_, have you seen shapado.com ?
21:32 dfarning people (teachers) participate in communities IFF the community is helpful to them.
21:32 icarito its a forum software
21:32 JT4sugar dfarning, Yes we almost need a Planet style set up for each grade level tagged by Subject So If I'm a Fifth grade Teacher I go to the 5th grade Sugar Planet site, If I'm a 2nd grade teacher a 2nd grade Sugar Planet site
21:33 pflores_ If we had a set of somehow agreed tags, we could aggregate resources and tag them socially
21:33 JT4sugar: does it make sense to you?
21:34 JT4sugar Yes aggregating is good for some but teacher does not want aggregate site they want a site for their grade
21:35 pflores_ I mean, aggregate info and let different users tag it
21:35 (suggest tags)
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21:36 JT4sugar pflores_, Sending out a survey to Teachers to see how they would like to see information organized(Tags) would be good first step
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21:37 pflores_ A teacher finds a lesson plan for ... let's say Pitagoras
21:38 then she can use it and put: I used this link for #math #pitagoras #1st grade
21:39 Or even better, select tags from a multiple selection
21:39 I'm pretty sure many teachers would do it
21:40 It's useful for themselves: they keep trac of what they did for teaching it next year
21:41 icarito: Shapado seems to be a good Q&A tool
21:41 icarito pflores_, its also a good modern forum tool based on tags
21:42 pflores_ icarito: I'll take a closer look
21:42 icarito instead of a tree based forum that tends to be a pain to mantain
21:42 look at it like a forum software
21:43 its just an idea but i've found its a good way to categorize info scattered in several places
21:45 pflores_ I like microblogging approach because you can ask questions, suggest links and tags, all from the same interface
21:46 icarito pflores_, i agree, but i think we agree the interface is not good enough
21:46 JT4sugar Take a look at this Open Source project-Eureka Streams as a possibility for forums http://www.eurekastreams.org/
21:48 pflores_ icarito: we agree. a specific interface is needed. I like the tagging interface of shapado.
21:50 JT4sugar: looks good!
21:50 icarito is logging in to eurekastreams
21:52 JT4sugar pflores_, I think it's very important for you to get with Teachers on possible interfaces and workflows. Building it around the teachers and then figuring out how developers can tap into that structure which they will
21:52 icarito i feel we could achieve something like this with a custom status.net
21:53 pflores_ I haven't found a system which really looks like what's needed for teacher's community
21:53 icarito i have to go now, sorry, talk to you soon
21:53 pflores_ icarito: Ok, let's talk later!
21:53 icarito has quit IRC
21:54 pflores_ JT4sugar: I've been in contact with many teachers, that's where my ideas come from, but I'm afraid I'm not seaking my mind very well
21:55 ndoiron pflores_: on microblogging - this is valuable for teachers who have found a lot of content, and more teachers can follow those
21:56 pflores_: but it doesn't give us too much to show to people new to Sugar / OLPC, such as new developers or teachers without the technology
21:57 pflores_ IMHO if a teacher finds a place with useful educational resources, she will use it all the time.
21:57 teachers mostly don't have a landing page for looking for resources
21:58 or for communicating with collegues
21:59 If the teacher finds a good interface for doing that, she'll get into the community
22:01 1) we aggregate interesting blogs
22:01 2) we receive links suggestions (from our page of from microblog entries)
22:02 3) with search tools for the aggregated info, it's easier to find what's interesting
22:04 4) the teacher selects from a set of standard tags the ones that apply, forwards it to collegues,
22:04 also can write reviews or comments
22:05 JT4sugar pflores_, So if you build separate sites for each grade or one site with a portal for each grade. Then teacher has place to go for all things Sugar for 1st graders, 2nd graders, etc. Upload/Download Lesson plans, tips, set up class collaborations, How are other teachers using Sugar for Literacy, Math, Science
22:05 pflores_ With this cycle we can build a knowledge base
22:06 JT4sugar: I wouldn't say separate sites, but the teacher can filter resourses tagged for 2nd grade for instance
22:06 and then filter Math
22:09 JT4sugar I would say separate sites or portals they want to feel they have a community of their particular grade teachers. I think you will be way more successful if you approach this way. Don't know if you saw movie "Field of Dreams" but line in move is"If you build it they will come"
22:10 satellit_ all this should be added to wiki: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/S[…]on_channels#Blogs and http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/S[…]nnels#Aggregators  with classifications by grade and language
22:10 pflores_ JT4sugar: may be good, but I'm not sure if it's a good first step
22:11 satellit_: yes, but that's not a good interface for teachers
22:11 satellit_ agreed
22:12 pflores_ really there are hundrends of teachers blogs in this moment
22:12 JT4sugar pflores_, Think of how teachers spend their time. If I'm a 2nd grade teacher I want info for 2nd graders. If you build them a portal for everything Sugar at 2nd grade then you will see a lot of 2nd grade teachers using or wanting to use Sugar show up
22:13 pflores_ all these teachers are willing to find ways of making what they write more visible
22:14 JT4sugar: +1 But... which would be the difference with the 3rd grade portal, except from the title and the filter of the contents?
22:16 JT4sugar Correct-you help them by giving them the Stage to do that for each grade. The difference would be all the conversations that will be started in those forums around using it with their age kids. Your giving them a place to congregate/get together
22:17 pflores_ yes! really I'd like to cluster community members in different "views" that show info about common interests
22:18 for instance, by geographical location
22:19 at this point I'm not sure how much we can discuss these in abstract. Maybe doing some kind of mockup would help discussion
22:19 JT4sugar I guess the big difference is that community interest for developers and volunteers is completely different from a teacher using Sugar in their class to teach a particular subject. Therefore building something separate to cover both situations is needed
22:21 pflores_ #idea let me mockup some of these ideas for further discussion
22:22 garycmartin pflores_: OT, if we had any actual hard numbers on different community member traits I could generate a SOM so we can see what the clusters are like. I was hoping the OLPCmap project may generate some data sets I could use.
22:23 JT4sugar pflores_, I think your off to a good start in tackling this challenge
22:24 pflores_ garycmartin: we have for instance mailing lists with teachers, would it be possible to analyze this info?
22:25 #help
22:27 I'd like to find tools for tagging socially data sets, tell me if you know some tool for it
22:28 garycmartin pflores_: I can certainly analyse based on text as per the weekly IAEP maps I generate (http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Labs/SOM#It.27s_An_Education_Project_Mailing_List) but really we would need vectors/tags for the participants. But I guess it depends how you want to target.
22:30 pflores_: can you point me to the archive for the mailing list for teachers you mention?
22:30 pflores_ http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/olpc-sur/
22:30 for instance
22:32 I like the maps, maybe they would be more clear if we could filter words to show
22:32 or cluster it
22:33 garycmartin pflores_: OK, good I can map that. I'll try some on that data and email one to you direct (I'm only an English language speaker).
22:33 pflores_ Ok, I think we're done for the moment
22:33 ok!
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22:34 pflores_ #action pflores will make a mockup of a UI for teachers community
22:34 JT4sugar Ok Thanks guys
22:34 garycmartin pflores_: filtering/clustering live data. Yea, I've tinkered with this, but having a standards compliant UI to interact with the data is not simple, it's needs a custom application or some serious HTML/JavaScript and database back end.
22:35 pflores_ #endmeeting
22:35 meeting Meeting ended Wed Feb  2 22:35:13 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
22:35 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-02T21:08:41.html
22:35 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]11-02-02T21:08:41
22:35 garycmartin pflores_: (I do tinker with the data live, but it's custom Mac code)
22:36 pflores_ that's pretty cool, I wonder how can we use the maps for understanding what's happening around...
22:36 satellit_ do you want me to update the wiki for the links mentioned today?
22:36 pflores_ satellit_: would be great!
22:36 satellit_ ok
22:37 pflores_ thanks guys
22:37 !
22:37 satellit_ will try to annotate it from discussions...please check it and correct it
22:37 pflores_ ok
22:40 dfarning pflores_, meeting looked good. do you want to talk to night or sometime tomorrow?
22:40 garycmartin pflores_: maps, I think the most useful step is to make the labels link to the resources that caused it, so you could drill down into a map to find some related emails/blog/content. Again, current open standards are fuzzy here given the map requirements (I guess a google maps type html/javascript view could be a close fit).
22:41 dfarning pflores_, opps sorry to interupt:(
22:41 silbe pflores_: a quick update on last weeks meeting: I haven't written up my plan in detail yet, but I got the Browse side working and hacked up a "seamless" OpenID provider today. The user data (i.e. my name and public key) is still hard coded for testing, but I could already use it successfully to log in to the SL wiki.
22:41 pflores_ dfarning no problem!
22:43 garycmartin let me think about it, let's make a time to talk about this later this week
22:43 silbe pflores_: BTW, I'm working on a / one Single Sign On solution for Sugar Labs (and everybody who wants to join in). One could call it a Central Authentication Service, but that name is already used by a specific SSO protocol / implementation that's different from mine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C[…]ntication_Service
22:44 (just trying to avoid confusion because you mentioned that I work on CAS)
22:44 pflores_ ok, got it
22:45 silbe G'night!
22:46 garycmartin pflores_: sure, will ping you with a map of olpc-sur. I might just do one that covers all email to the list since may 2008 as an overview.
22:46 pflores_ silbe: thanks good night!
22:46 garycmartin cool!
22:47 silbe has quit IRC
22:48 garycmartin Night all.
22:48 garycmartin has quit IRC
22:50 JT4sugar has quit IRC
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