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| 13:41 | dfarning | tch -- are you ready for todays meeting? I normally give bernie a wakeup call about now to make sure he is up:) |
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| 13:49 | tch | dfarning: i am :) |
| 13:50 | dfarning | tch, +1 was just talking to m_anish in cause you were still recovering from your drive back. |
| 13:51 | m_anish, thanks for being willing to cover if needed:) | |
| 13:51 | m_anish | dfarning, np |
| 13:57 | tch | dfarning, m_anish: apparently bernie and SMParrish will not be able to make it, since they are at fudcon |
| 13:57 | dfarning | tch +1 |
| 13:58 | m_anish | tch, yup, read their email |
| 13:59 | dirakx | waves |
| 14:00 | m_anish | silbe, hi! |
| 14:00 | dirakx, hi! | |
| 14:00 | dirakx | m_anish: hi ;) |
| 14:01 | tch | dirakx: hello :) |
| 14:01 | dirakx | tch: hello, hello :). |
| 14:02 | tch | silbe, alsroot: around ? |
| 14:02 | alsroot | is listening |
| 14:03 | tch | alsroot: haha kk, |
| 14:04 | m_anish | tch, #startmeeting? |
| 14:04 | tch | there we go, |
| 14:04 | #startmeeting | |
| 14:04 | meeting | Meeting started Sat Jan 29 14:04:43 2011 UTC. The chair is tch. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 14:04 | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting | |
| 14:06 | silbe | is there. Might have to switch batteries if the meeting takes too long. |
| 14:06 | tch | Welcome everyone, i am not fully aware of all the topics others might have for today's meeting so to make it quick m_anish and i will start talking about yesterday meeting with Paraguay Educa team. |
| 14:06 | dirakx | great |
| 14:07 | m_anish | tch, before that, can I give a quick update about the release? |
| 14:07 | tch | sure, |
| 14:07 | #topic quick update about the release | |
| 14:07 | :) | |
| 14:08 | m_anish | okay, so RC release was slated for 31 jan, moved to 28 jan (edu team request) and moved back again to 31 jan (edu team takes request back) ... |
| 14:08 | (1) has most strings in sugar translated to spanish | |
| 14:08 | (2) updated activity list | |
| 14:09 | before monday, we'll enable the feedback feature, and integrate some more patches... | |
| 14:09 | downgrade cairo version to 1.08 (as 1.10 made browse crash badly) | |
| 14:10 | thinking about disabling the dextrose intl repo for py release (so that only thoroughly tested stuff goes in the build) | |
| 14:10 | i have some feedback on new features, will follow that up on email | |
| 14:11 | final release still due for 14-15 feb, but pretty much everything is present in the current release (barring a few patches) | |
| 14:11 | tch, i'm done :) | |
| 14:12 | dirakx | m_anish: i have a question about (1)(2) what would be the best way to review/add some string spanish translations for that particular release?. |
| 14:12 | m_anish | fyi, http://people.sugarlabs.org/anish/translate2.xls list of new translations in the new release |
| 14:12 | dirakx, hmm, i've had tch and carlos (pyeduca) convert the strings and [scs] review them | |
| 14:13 | dirakx | m_anish: ok |
| 14:13 | tch | great information, some of these points are related to what we discussed yesterday too, |
| 14:14 | about the cairo downgrade, we need to look deeper on why there was an update in the first place, to make sure we are not bringing other bugs we did not know about | |
| 14:15 | or at least know what are the differences | |
| 14:15 | m_anish | tch, SMParrish and bernie included the update to have faster rendering of icons during activity startup |
| 14:16 | tch | m_anish: i see, not sure it worth it if it crashes browse everytime you close a tab... |
| 14:16 | m_anish | tch, not worth it, till someone debugs it, i'll remove it from the intl repo |
| 14:16 | for reference "SMParrish> m_anish: yes it was. something bernie and I decided to try while at OLPC-SF this is the 1st we have heard of an issue with it. I can remove it from the repo if needed, then future builds will default to 1.08 or whatever is in F11" | |
| 14:17 | tch | great, |
| 14:17 | alsroot | btw did we get cairo version in recent fedora updates? |
| 14:18 | silbe | since you already mention it: Will anyone work on figuring out what component causes the crash and report it upstream? |
| 14:18 | alsroot | if fc11 had it for months, downgrading it maybe dangerous.. |
| 14:18 | m_anish | tch, did you test on 0.84 build whether cairo crashes browse? |
| 14:19 | silbe | alsroot: more dangerous than Browse crashing regularly? |
| 14:20 | dirakx | first step would be filling a bug on our tracker describing simptoms for further analysis |
| 14:20 | alsroot | silbe: well we have not only browse.. |
| 14:20 | m_anish | alsroot, i believe for fc11, cairo was frozen at something like 1.08.xx-2, /me searching for link... it was probably something bernie and SMParrish custom built |
| 14:21 | alsroot | m_anish: if it was dx related upgrade, then yup, switch back to original fc11 cairo is preferable |
| 14:21 | m_anish | alsroot, http://koji.fedoraproject.org/[…]nfo?packageID=447 |
| 14:22 | alsroot, http://download.sugarlabs.org/[…]xo2/rpms/i386/os/ cairo is 1.10 is present here, i'll still double check with bernie | |
| 14:22 | tch | m_anish: let me see if the download worked |
| 14:24 | m_anish | silbe, i believe browse crashes 'quite rarely' with the older cairo, but with the new one, it crashes *everytime* we close a tab |
| 14:24 | silbe | dirakx: candidates are https://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/2492 https://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/2431 . |
| 14:24 | dirakx | silbe: /me reads. |
| 14:25 | silbe | m_anish: yes, exactly. :-/ |
| 14:25 | m_anish | silbe, besides that, opening maps.google.com on xo1/1.5 old/new cairo crashed everytime for me as well (js engine issues ?) |
| 14:26 | dirakx | silbe: these should be also realted to issue ''not able to open blogger.com'' on browse. |
| 14:26 | silbe | m_anish: that's one of the two tickets I mentioned above. Would be nice if you could check whether those are the same underlying issue (by comparing the stack traces). |
| 14:27 | m_anish | silbe, ah, ok! |
| 14:27 | dirakx | gdb traces like this https://bugs.sugarlabs.org/att[…]gdb-backtrace.log |
| 14:28 | in browse case https://bugs.sugarlabs.org/att[…]gdb-backtrace.log | |
| 14:30 | m_anish | also, re: translating, it would be good to have a simple interface like translate.sugarlabs.org, if its not too much work (/me unfortunately knows little abt translations) |
| 14:31 | I had to do {vim + grep + re} vodoo to get translations integrated in the po files :) | |
| 14:32 | silbe | m_anish: for DX-3, I'm pushing for having our translation work on translate.sl.o because that's where the translators are. I'm not sure who I need to poke to get that done. |
| 14:32 | dirakx | silbe: gonzalo, maybe i in the future are working on pootle. |
| 14:32 | silbe | (previously I would have talked to unmadindu) |
| 14:32 | dirakx: great news! | |
| 14:33 | m_anish | tch, back to py, the focus will gradually shift from s/w development to more infrastructure related issues |
| 14:33 | dirakx | silbe: a dx branch should be created |
| 14:33 | also dx-py for example. | |
| 14:33 | silbe | dirakx: will you remain online after the meeting so we can work on it together? |
| 14:34 | tch | m_anish: yup, |
| 14:34 | dirakx | silbe: i have to get out but i'll be back online after one hour so we can work then. |
| 14:34 | tch | anything else to add to the current topic? |
| 14:34 | silbe | dirakx: good |
| 14:34 | is anyone using DX-2 already? | |
| 14:35 | tch | silbe: mesively? |
| 14:35 | massively* | |
| 14:36 | silbe | tch: in production I mean, not just testing. |
| 14:36 | tch | nope, |
| 14:36 | silbe | ok, thx. |
| 14:36 | tch | but that is goig to happen in 2 week (approx) |
| 14:36 | #topic meeting with pyedu technical staff | |
| 14:37 | alsroot | btw I'm going to package dx-2 for trisqule this week |
| 14:37 | m_anish | alsroot, tch, sorry, just remembered one more thing, we'll probably need to have some sort of test-plan ready next week, will need your help making it though |
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| 14:38 | tch | m_anish: sure i can help with that, we need to make sure the testing is being done properly or it wll be useless |
| 14:39 | dirakx | tch: count with me in testing activities included if needed. |
| 14:39 | m_anish | tch, yep, will work on that front |
| 14:40 | tch | kk, lets move on to what we talked yesterday.. |
| 14:40 | m_anish | tch, +1 :) |
| 14:42 | tch | basically we were talking about what we should expect from each other for the next month, that is going to be critical, since the paraguay educa already decide to massively update all their xo 1.0 to dextrose 2 |
| 14:42 | and also, they are receiving the 5000 1.5 xo, which they expect to flash with dx2 too | |
| 14:43 | m_anish: can you repeat again the deadlines again ? to make sure we all have it in mind | |
| 14:43 | alsroot | m_anish: we should have testing related docs on wiki, somewhere.. |
| 14:45 | m_anish | tch, sure, so 14-15 feb is our release date, i think we start flashing the existing laptops within that week and the new laptops around 20 feb |
| 14:45 | tch | well, from what i was told yesterday, there should be a release candidate for Tue Feb 2, it will be tested with formadores, and teachers and like 50 kids in one school of caacupe. |
| 14:46 | m_anish | fyi, handout of new laptops wil probably occur between 2nd -4th week of march |
| 14:46 | tch | m_anish: +1, that make 2 weeks of testing.. is not much.. thats why it is important to make it work as better as possible |
| 14:47 | there are some important considerations about the updater we discussed in the meeting, | |
| 14:47 | m_anish | ([scs] said he would attend this meeting, he knows the dates better, i've pointed out what's relevant to us) |
| 14:47 | tch | m_anish: yeah, lets keep those in mind .. since are the most critical for us |
| 14:48 | I will just list the considerations roberto told us yesterday, concerning the updater... | |
| 14:49 | 1. there are schools with no internet but they all have XS, so we should provide mirrors that will be updated periodically by their insite technical team | |
| 14:50 | Nubae | how are they currently updating XS? |
| 14:50 | tch | Nubae: with schools with internet they use puppet, |
| 14:51 | Nubae: with school with no internet, they only do it when it crashes due to a hardware problem | |
| 14:51 | Nubae | ok so no updates for schools with no internet, they never take the XS to a central location where there is internet access to update? |
| 14:51 | tch | Nubae: but for the updates scenario they will manually copy the new files to the local repo, we also need to make sure this is a easy a process |
| 14:52 | Nubae: only when it crashes, | |
| 14:52 | silbe has quit IRC | |
| 14:52 | Nubae | ok |
| 14:52 | alsroot | btw we need a solution for internet-less usecase not only for yum updates but also for activities |
| 14:53 | m_anish: is it a blocker for dx-2 release? | |
| 14:53 | tch | alsroot: in both cases we should put it on the XS, |
| 14:53 | Nubae | yeah XS should be able to update activities |
| 14:54 | puppet can do that | |
| 14:54 | alsroot | w/ microformat updater, it should be trivial, just having html page w/ files on XS |
| 14:54 | tch | alsroot: exactly |
| 14:54 | m_anish | Nubae, alsroot, yup, we're planning to have a similar structure for activities, as with the updater, configuring the XS so that it points to itself |
| 14:54 | tch | yep, by simply playing with the host file |
| 14:54 | so the updater will work locally on schools but they can also access to the central one outside | |
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| 14:56 | tch | we should have some way to easily deploy the repo + (cron/rsync with the central one, which will only work for schools with internet) + host file configuration |
| 14:57 | any suggestions? | |
| 14:57 | Nubae | well crontabs can be put into puppet |
| 14:57 | same with rsync instructions | |
| 14:58 | I have the lastes Py puppet files but haven't finished going through it, but if thats in use it would be a matter of modifying that | |
| 14:58 | tch | so basically the architecture we discussed yesterday was simply to have a central repo at pyedu office (i will mention some considerations about it now) then each XS should have a miror of it... which will be updated via internet or manually .. |
| 14:59 | any thoughts on this ^? | |
| 15:00 | Nubae | repo done with reprepo? |
| 15:00 | silbe | tch: FWIW, this sounds good to me. A repository can be easily replicated using USB sticks and rsync. |
| 15:00 | tch | silbe: +1, that is what we though |
| 15:00 | Nubae | or pushed via cobbler |
| 15:00 | centrally before xses are in the field i mean | |
| 15:01 | silbe | there's also been some work done by projects like Wizzy Digital Courier to allow "browsing" via Sneakernet |
| 15:01 | dirakx | the problem there is that one has to physicall change places from time to time to update, having to carry around a stick. |
| 15:02 | tch | dirakx: that is already been done regularly |
| 15:02 | dirakx: technicians visits each school every weerk | |
| 15:02 | week* | |
| 15:02 | dirakx | tch: so no problem in keeping doing it ? |
| 15:02 | tch | dirakx: and is that or hoping for magic :) |
| 15:02 | dirakx: nope | |
| 15:02 | dirakx | tch: hm ok. |
| 15:03 | m_anish | dirakx, we don't have internet at many places, so physically transporting stuff to/from them is the only way |
| 15:03 | Nubae | can't get around that :-) |
| 15:03 | dirakx | right |
| 15:03 | tch | i was hoping for magic :( |
| 15:04 | silbe | dirakx: That's the basic problem, yes. There are two ways to tackle it: Piggyback on existing infrastructure (e.g. post bus) to transport the data regularly (via USB sticks, onboard APs, whatever). Or set up new infrastructure, like wireless links from village to village / school to school. |
| 15:04 | tch | silbe: we considered the second and it insanely expensive in some cases.. |
| 15:05 | dirakx | silbe: first is the only alternatif then. |
| 15:06 | silbe | tch: depends on the exact laws of the country in question (required certifications, available frequencies, etc.). Remember that there's equipment other than just 802.11 (e.g. amateur radio). |
| 15:07 | tch: in theory, you could even blast out updates from a radio broadcast station :) | |
| 15:07 | m_anish | was hoping there would be HAM radio operators in py to assist with wireless comm. but couldn't find many ;-) |
| 15:07 | dirakx | tch: have you concidered gprs/cellular conectivity..?. |
| 15:07 | Nubae | silbe I like it |
| 15:07 | silbe | Nubae: it's how recent satellite receivers update themselves ;) |
| 15:08 | tch | silbe: yep, we asked many companies for help, the problem are some schools that are literally islands of connectivity, surounded 360 by hiils and more hills around them is they require many antennas or a lot of power to get through it |
| 15:09 | dirakx: there is none at thoe schools | |
| 15:09 | dirakx | bottom line the only solution for now is to carry around sticks from time to time. |
| 15:10 | tch | yep, |
| 15:10 | dirakx | tch: shame... |
| 15:10 | tch | ok, lets continue this the topic :) |
| 15:10 | m_anish | tch, we have a redundant 25m big dish in Aregua that we could potentially use to blast em waves (/me shuts up) |
| 15:10 | silbe | tch: partnering with a "satellite DSL" provider might be an option, with a downstream link only. This is more or less how the first "satellite DSL" setups worked: upstream was a telephone line. For just updates, we wouldn't need upstream. |
| 15:11 | m_anish | tch, right, we should test a lot with the XS we have at the office |
| 15:11 | Nubae | yep still works in rural spain |
| 15:11 | silbe | but yeah, we should continue with less long term topics :) |
| 15:11 | tch | if you guys can think of options i can tell pyedu team will be glad to hear them ;) |
| 15:12 | ok, the second consideration for the updater is: no repo should point out outside of paraguay educa | |
| 15:12 | dirakx | ok |
| 15:12 | silbe | tch: ask for help on olpc-devel. There are a few smart folks subscribed that have worked on similar stuff in the past. |
| 15:14 | tch | it means that originally the updates repo should be empty and anything goes in should be reviewed and tested before |
| 15:14 | silbe | and if you're going for the big stuff (like satellite), team up with Peru. The latest intern report on OLPCNews suggests they're having the same problem. |
| 15:14 | m_anish | tch, right, this way we ensure nothing blows up, and passes through two testing levels (intl repo followed by py repo) |
| 15:15 | silbe | who will do the testing? PyEduca? |
| 15:15 | tch | silbe: yes, teachers, formadores a around 50-60 kids |
| 15:15 | silbe | (just trying to get a picture of the actual workflow) |
| 15:15 | m_anish | tch, also we would enable a testing repo 'manually' for a handful of ppl... |
| 15:15 | tch, silbe +1 exactly | |
| 15:17 | tch | the school is called Daniel Ortellado, there are 2 teachers of 5 and 6 grade that always helped us with testing |
| 15:17 | and so they will again, | |
| 15:17 | is very hard to find real testers | |
| 15:18 | silbe | tch: why is it hard? I'd imagine kids to love playing with new toys... |
| 15:19 | tch | silbe: yeah, kids loves it... but teachers tend to not like it when it comes with big changes or bugs.. because enthusiasm stops when they are not able to do their work. |
| 15:20 | dirakx | tch: older kids can do that..they would be more open to on-the-edge stuff. /me guess. |
| 15:20 | silbe | tch: ah, I see. Do you overwrite the regular installation or install to an external SD card so they can change back to the "stable" version in case of trouble? |
| 15:21 | tch | dirakx: yup, thats why it is a great coincidence that are around 7,6,5 grasde |
| 15:21 | dirakx | tch: nice!. |
| 15:22 | silbe | what's the age range for XO / Dextrose usage in PY, BTW? |
| 15:23 | tch | silbe: only if its something too critical with no workarounds, i remember receiving the request some times, but we just focused on fixing it in time and deploying an update asap |
| 15:23 | silbe: because even doing a downgrade is a huge waste of time for them, it takes some minutes where they want to be teaching.. | |
| 15:24 | silbe | tch: maybe teachers would be more likely to test if they can switch to the old build right in class. |
| 15:24 | (by simply rebooting and pressing the square key during boot) | |
| 15:24 | dirakx | thats a nice feature of ofw. |
| 15:25 | silbe | dirakx: yep. I use it for kernel testing and recovering from mistakes I made on my Debian install - the internal SD card contains a regular OLPC build (maybe Dextrose in the future). |
| 15:25 | tch | that would work if every teacher and kid had a usb with the original image and if you spent the time to teach them when it would be necessary to do it, etc |
| 15:26 | ok, moving on this topic.. | |
| 15:27 | we also talked about the feedback server we decided that (for now at least) it will be a central one in pyedu offices, | |
| 15:27 | silbe | tch: not sure why they should need a USB stick with the original image. They should have the "stable" build on the internal SD card / flash and the "testing" build on an external SD card. But I agree we should move on... |
| 15:27 | tch | m_anish: am i missing anything else? |
| 15:28 | m_anish | tch, nope, pl continue... |
| 15:29 | tch | well that is basically what we talked about (relevant to us) |
| 15:29 | does anyone else has something to say on the current topic? :) | |
| 15:29 | m_anish | was thinking about fallback/redundancy incase the updater doesn't work as well as we think it might, but will discuss later |
| 15:31 | tch | m_anish: about that, we better focus on this testing to make sure it works.. the only plan is B is re=flashing.. and that takes weeks (considering pyedu human/usb resources) |
| 15:31 | m_anish | tch, would there be schools without a XS as well (i guess there might be) |
| 15:31 | tch | m_anish: nope, |
| 15:32 | m_anish | tch, ok, good :) |
| 15:32 | tch | m_anish: XS is a core element in schools |
| 15:32 | m_anish: at least in the way pyedu is doing it ;) | |
| 15:32 | which makes a lot of sense to me. | |
| 15:33 | m_anish | tch, we also discussed whether the adhoc networks are actually used in practice, but i guess its not relevant here |
| 15:33 | silbe | tch: that's great news to me. It means there are regular backups of all XOs. |
| 15:33 | tch | silbe: yup, :) |
| 15:33 | silbe: we rely a lot of that. | |
| 15:34 | silbe | is there a backup of the XSs? <gdr> |
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| 15:34 | tch | is there any other topic that i am not aware of and that cannot wait until the next meeting? :D haha |
| 15:34 | m_anish | tch, i think you covered everything re: py |
| 15:35 | silbe | for DX-3, bernie and SMParrish should get back to me before working on non-XO stuff because I've already done some parts of it this week. |
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| 15:36 | tch | silbe: awesome, there is some projects in py interested in that |
| 15:36 | are* | |
| 15:36 | silbe | tch: tell me about them some time :) |
| 15:37 | tch | silbe: i will when i get more information, all i know is that they are _very_ interested in sugar |
| 15:38 | silbe | tch: awesome! |
| 15:38 | tch | ok, if there is nothing else to add to this meeting..(we can talk about anything else after it) |
| 15:38 | silbe | tch: +1 |
| 15:38 | tch | #endmeeting |
| 15:38 | meeting | Meeting ended Sat Jan 29 15:38:45 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4) |
| 15:38 | Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-29T14:04:43.html | |
| 15:38 | Log: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]11-01-29T14:04:43 | |
| 15:39 | tch | silbe: one of the former pyedu founders created his own NGO to do similar projects, so they are very interested in sugar |
| 15:40 | silbe: i am not sure about the hardware they are going to use, | |
| 15:40 | silbe | dirakx: when will you be around again? 17:45? or more like 18:15? (I'll go offline in between, don't have a third battery with me) |
| 15:41 | tch: interesting. | |
| 15:41 | dirakx | silbe: more like 18:15. |
| 15:41 | silbe | dirakx: ok, will get back online at 18:15 then. |
| 15:42 | is going to have some cake now. Have fun everyone! | |
| 15:42 | tch | silbe: take care! |
| 15:42 | dirakx | silbe: thanks |
| 15:42 | silbe | thx, you too. |
| 15:43 | silbe has quit IRC | |
| 15:43 | dirakx | tch: m_anish Nubae take care bye.. |
| 15:43 | tch | dirakx: have a nice rest of the weekend |
| 15:43 | m_anish | dirakx, nice meeting! see you later! |
| 15:43 | dfarning | thanks guys you covered a lot of important stuff! |
| 15:46 | tch | :) |
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