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#sugar-meeting, 2010-12-04

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13:59 silbe #startmeeting
13:59 meeting Meeting started Sat Dec  4 13:59:59 2010 UTC. The chair is silbe. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
13:59 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
14:00 silbe #meetingname activity_central
14:00 meeting The meeting name has been set to 'activity_central'
14:00 SMParrish silbe: Good morning
14:01 silbe bernie, SMParrish, alsroot, tch: friendly meeting reminder ;)
14:01 m_anish_afk: dito ;)
14:02 I don't think I see Pablo...
14:02 alsroot hi all
14:02 silbe Good evening SMParrish, alsroot :)
14:08 hmm, doesn't look like bernie, m_anish_afk or Pablo will turn up.
14:09 there's no agenda in the wiki, so I'd propose the following:
14:09 1. EMail addrs
14:09 2. Reports: - alsroot - silbe - smparrish - m_anish - tch
14:09 3. Various
14:10 any additions or alterations?
14:11 ok, let's start then
14:11 #topic ac.com email addresses
14:13 I've created activitycentral.com email addresses for alsroot, m_anish_afk (anish), bernie, dfarning, myself (silbe), SMParrish and tch.
14:14 as dfarning explained, usage of these addresses is going to be our primary means of advertising for the next few months, so please use them whenever appropriate.
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14:14 silbe and if I overlooked someone who should have an ac.com address, please tell me.
14:15 #topic Reports
14:15 alsroot: the stage is yours :)
14:16 alsroot dunno, didn't have particular ac related work..
14:16 silbe alsroot: ok. Anything you're going to work on next week?
14:17 alsroot works on http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/P[…]form_Team/Roadmap primarily
14:18 silbe I have no idea what anything on that page means, but I guess that's ok ;)
14:18 (well, except for aslo, of course)
14:20 alsroot thats just part of my "support upstream" work within ac
14:20 ..I guess
14:21 silbe personally, I've been working on cleaning up the Patchwork queue. We're now down to about 100 (from over 300) patches in the queue. I was able to push a bunch of patches, but we're still blocked because I didn't get hold of erikos for long enough. I'm still hopeful we'll be able to unblock within the next week, however.
14:22 once we got the new process agreed on, I'll get a bunch of my own outstanding patches through review and start working on getting the remaining Dextrose patches ready for submission.
14:22 SMParrish: you're next
14:24 BTW, 2011-01-14 sounds fine.
14:24 SMParrish I have been working on a new release, had some patch collisions that I got resolved this morning.  Also am starting the work to merge our buildsystem and DSD's to start making Dextrose3 builds
14:24 silbe did you get my email about needing a branched Sugar with our patchset
14:24 silbe SMParrish: what's the difference between our current and dsd's build system?
14:24 SMParrish: ^ ("2011-01-14 sounds fine")
14:25 SMParrish silbe: For the XO-1 we use jffs2 and the new one uses ubifs.  We also have some customizations that need to be ported over
14:26 so we will be changing filesystems on the XO1
14:27 we also are going to have to address the yum memory issues since we will be basing on F14 and people may want to update the base os
14:27 silbe that reminds me: can you build an ext3 image and/or a tarball as well? That would help a lot with testing, as we could install to external storage (SD card, USB stick) and keep the system on NAND / internal SD card unaffected.
14:27 SMParrish I am going to be talking with the RH yum maintainer and see what we can do
14:27 silbe it would also help a user who has a broken NAND (chatted with him on #sugar this week)
14:28 SMParrish silbe: Sure the build system does that I just have not been posting them
14:28 silbe SMParrish: looking forward to that. I suppose this doesn't block our other yum update work (updating from just our own repositories)?
14:29 SMParrish: thanks!
14:29 SMParrish yw
14:30 silbe SMParrish: the ability to test in a VM (=> regular PC bootloader, non-XO kernel) would help as well. ;)
14:31 m_anish_afk: would be next. Maybe he'll join later.
14:31 SMParrish silbe: I'll look into that  should not be too difficult to use stock kernel
14:31 silbe SMParrish: thanks again!
14:31 tch doesn't seem to be here either :-/
14:32 he's been working on the notifications stuff and even posted a patch upstream, but I still don't see updated mockups :(
14:33 #topic Various
14:33 anything else someone would like to talk about?
14:34 lucian was thinking perhaps yum would run on pypy with lower memory usage
14:35 but that wouldn't solve the distribution problems
14:35 silbe lucian: is PyPy complete enough now that it would run yum?
14:36 lucian silbe: it's fully 2.5 compatible + ctypes
14:36 silbe (let's continue this after the meeting)
14:36 lucian sure
14:36 silbe I don't see anyone else speaking up, so let's finish
14:36 3
14:37 lucian 2
14:37 SMParrish 1
14:37 silbe #endmeeting
14:37 meeting Meeting ended Sat Dec  4 14:37:35 2010 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
14:37 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-04T13:59:59.html
14:37 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]10-12-04T13:59:59
14:39 silbe lucian: interesting. Maybe we'll be able to run 0.92 on PyPy. I'm going to replace/outsource a few of the parts that are written in C.
14:39 e.g. we ship an ancient copy of gnome-session as part of sugar-toolkit.
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14:39 lucian silbe: there's cpyext, which is a clone of the C API in CPython
14:39 it's mostly source-compatible, but incomplete
14:40 silbe: the problem is, there's no pygtk right now, even
14:41 silbe upstream has recently made I change I requested so we can switch to upstream gnome-session instead
14:41 lucian right
14:41 silbe s/I change/a change/
14:41 lucian: how about the introspection stuff? Would that allow us to use GTK on PyPy?
14:41 lucian i need to find some time for fixing some Browse bugs and finishing the switch to webkit
14:42 silbe and fixing Read ;)
14:42 lucian silbe: you'd need to rewrite pygobject's introspection stuff in pure python + ctypes
14:42 or maybe it'd work with cpyext, but it's unlikely
14:42 silbe: that too, yes
14:42 silbe lucian: ok, so not easily. Bummer.
14:43 lucian silbe: for anything that's not CPython, ctypes is the only thing you can even remotely rely on
14:43 silbe lucian: does ctypes work on Jython et al.?
14:44 lucian silbe: not jython, but ironpython afaik
14:44 but if someone care enough, it could be made to run on jython without too much work
14:44 silbe interesting
14:44 lucian PyPy's ctypes is pure-python and uses _rawffi
14:44 silbe what's _rawffi?
14:45 lucian silbe: a wrapper over libffi
14:45 silbe hmm, sounds like something I wanted to work on some time back. Good thing somebody else did the work. ;)
14:47 lucian silbe: yeah. and I keep wondering why pygobject-introspection isn't pure python too
14:47 anyway, when I have enough time to fix Browse and Read, i'll look at pypy too
14:49 silbe lucian: I'll be curious about your results. Though obviously my personal priority is working code for current distros (hint, hint). ;)
14:55 lucian silbe: i know. i'm just hoping to magically fix memory usage & speed by switching to a different runtime
14:57 silbe lucian: I have a feeling the work would better be spent by analysing our current memory usage and bottlenecks. But I have to admit PyPy beats it on the fun factor, which is not to be underestimated.
14:57 lucian silbe: heh
14:58 m_anish_afk is now known as m_anish
14:59 m_anish reads up :/
14:59 silbe m_anish: you're exactly one hour late :-P
15:01 m_anish silbe, sorry :(
15:01 silbe m_anish: can you go through your patches on https://patchwork.sugarlabs.or[…]oject/sugar/list/ to check for obsolete or already-merged patches, please?
15:01 m_anish silbe, ok
15:02 silbe m_anish: don't worry, it happens. And you weren't the only one missing. :-/
15:02 m_anish: what's your current work? Are you blocked on anything?
15:02 m_anish silbe, I remembered that there was a meeting, just couldn't make it..
15:02 scans patchwork
15:04 ok, starting from the top, there is a list of patches, for the resource and memory usage indicator, and after long discussions with tomeu, bernie (on list, and trac) we decided not to upstream this
15:05 https://patchwork.sugarlabs.org/patch/161/ https://patchwork.sugarlabs.org/patch/160/ these (or similar/related) patches are upstream
15:05 s/upstream/upstreamed/
15:05 silbe, there's only one page left on patchwork?
15:05 silbe m_anish: ok. Does Dextrose have the latest patch(es) you submitted upstream?
15:06 m_anish: yep, I did quite a lot of cleanup this work.
15:06 we even managed to push a bunch of patches into mainline
15:06 m_anish silbe, great! I think it does, i'll double check
15:07 silbe m_anish: it would be great if you could check whether the patches went in as-is or in modified form and mark them as such (i.e. either Superseded or Accepted) on Patchwork. Please set them to Archived, too.
15:07 m_anish: thx!
15:08 going afk, bbl
15:08 m_anish silbe, i'll do that
15:08 silbe, great work btw :), kudos!
15:08 bows to silbe
15:08 silbe m_anish: same to you :)
15:09 don't bow yet - we're still not unblocked upstream, just got a few patches through :(
15:09 m_anish silbe, still, its more progress than we ever made before (i think)
15:10 silbe, what abt the two which aren't supposed to be upstreamed (resource indicator related)?
15:22 the patch "Journal:show error message on write failure: #1842" was committed as is but was later modified by erikos (in a different commit)
15:25 silbe m_anish: you can mark those as Rejected. I might submit them again when I'm going through all of the Dextrose patches to port them to 0.90.
15:25 m_anish: if it went in as-is, you can mark it as Accepted.
15:25 m_anish silbe, ok
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15:28 silbe tch: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]10-12-04T13:59:59
15:28 m_anish silbe, actually, Superseded, with inputs from alsroot  :)
15:29 silbe, and dextrose doesn;t have the latest one ten
15:29 s/ten/then
15:29 tch hello guys, sorry i could not make it in time,
15:29 silbe:  thanks, reading
15:29 m_anish silbe,  http://git.sugarlabs.org/sugar[…]2b0d8bcd84d0f3992 is what i'm referring to
15:30 silbe m_anish: ok
15:32 m_anish silbe, do I also "delegate it to" someone
15:32 silbe m_anish: nop, that's for the maintainers.
15:32 m_anish silbe, ok
15:39 silbe, re "Add ErrorAlert inherited from Alert", the patch that went mainline had one more line "+# Copyright (C) 2010, Anish Mangal <anishmangal2002@gmail.com>", patchwork and dextrose contain the patch w/o this change
15:40 silbe, i'm marking it as superseded anyway
15:40 silbe m_anish: that's fine IMO
15:40 but I don't really care either way
15:40 m_anish silbe, accepted it is then :)
15:41 silbe would love to purge all "Copyright" mentions from the code base.
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15:43 m_anish silbe, :), stupid question, do you want to archive the rejected ones too?
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15:43 silbe m_anish: yep. Please archive everything we don't need to look at again.
15:43 m_anish silbe, k
15:43 silbe where "we" = upstream
15:44 m_anish silbe, ok, i've done all the changes you said. Anything else?
15:45 silbe, my agenda for next week is to run around preparing for my py trip, (i'll be thr on 14th dec.), but before I go, I'll have the microformat updater patch out
15:46 silbe m_anish: great!
15:48 m_anish: BTW, I gathered from the discussions that we had a microformat updater in 0.84, but yours is written from scratch. Why is that? (I'm quite sure there are very good reasons for rewriting it from scratch - I'd just like to know them).
15:49 m_anish silbe, part of the reason is that the old one used the bitfrost library, we i guess we don't have available
15:49 silbe ah, that's a good reason indeed.
15:49 what features that the old one had will yours be missing?
15:50 m_anish silbe, actually someone named Akash Gangil (nick=gangil) wrote the new one, but it needed many changes from me
15:51 silbe, hmm, None, probably? I can install new activities and update existing ones
15:51 i can query for size, if the newly added optional 'olpc-activity-size' tag is absent
15:51 silbe m_anish: please remember to mention that in the patch (not sure about the best way to do it; will need to check SubmittingPatches).
15:52 (re. the author of the patch)
15:52 m_anish silbe, I can probably include your suggestion (sha1 checksum) if it is valued ;)
15:52 silbe m_anish: what about performance?
15:53 m_anish silbe, hmm, if we have olpc-activity-size mentioned, its faster than the old one, otherwise, similar performance i guess, i haven't run formal benchmarks yet.
15:54 silbe m_anish: I suppose for the updater checking the integrity of the zip file (ActivityBundle has a method to do that IIRC) should be enough. It's more interesting for e.g. torrent integration.
15:54 m_anish: ok. If you get around to do it, a small test run over high latency links would be interesting.
15:55 m_anish silbe, there are three main stages (1) searching for new and updated stuff (2) selecting what to be installed (3) downloading and installing ... olpc-activity-size reduces the delay in (1) which I guess is most annoying
15:55 silbe, i'll try to do it
15:55 silbe m_anish: thx & good luck with your journey!
15:55 m_anish silbe, thanks!
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21:05 bernie silbe, alsroot, SMParrish: damn, I forgot about it! I was exhausted, sorry
21:08 alsroot bernie: bounced between ikea and your apartments?
21:20 silbe bernie: the logs are at http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]10-12-04T13:59:59
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